Insurance Information & Teeter Removal

[bigwheel]

Why would they when they can sue you and get money for being stupid

Exactly.

Tort Reform would solve this and a lot of the US' other problems. Until then, we are at the mercy of the insurance companies, who are at the mercy of those who like to sue as a way to get rich.

[rihaha]

Still wish people would assume responsibility for their own actions though.

Why would they when they can sue you and get money for being stupid

[dschiltz]

The more natural materials we use the better...

HPT in LaCrosse does a good job at this. The trail feels extremely organic, like the obstacle are there by mere chance. Even though none of the obstacles are that gnarly, since they are more organic (off-camber, round, etc.) it makes a smaller obstacle that much more difficult.

I'd keep an eye on the ol' insurance company though. Give an inch take a mile. Still wish people would assume responsibility for their own actions though.

[jeffgude]

As I stated earlier, I fully support the boards decision, but...
1) I'll miss the teeters
2) time will tell. I DO NOT TRUST INSURANCE COMPANIES and believe that this is just the first step to eliminate more technical trails.

There is no gurantee that we will always be able to insure MORC against claims involving technical trail features. If there are too many losses on the policy, the insurance carrier may decide it's no longer profitable and decline to renew. That's called free enterprise. No insurance carrier was required to sell a liability insurance policy to IMBA and it's affiliated clubs. This carrier could have just as easily said 'no thanks I'd rather not risk it.' This may still happen in the future yes, but I am sure its dependent on how this year plays out. Good trail design is critical to minimize injuries, and I am sure the new carrier will be careful to only work with clubs that are smart about this.

[gopherhockey]

As I stated earlier, I fully support the boards decision, but...
1) I'll miss the teeters
2) time will tell. I DO NOT TRUST INSURANCE COMPANIES and believe that this is just the first step to eliminate more technical trails.

Having talked to the company (and IMBA) a number of times I am confident there is no intention to eliminate more from our trails. (The teeter thing was more of a reaction to a previous lawsuit.) In fact I believe the cost of insurance will come down next year.

Its all up to the riders and trail builders. If we have builders putting in features where they don't belong, without good signage, with poor design, without proper filters (etc.) there is always a chance of further laswsuits, which could then lead to further restrictions. We need to hope that all other clubs under IMBA are as responsible as our MORC trail volunteers are.

The more natural materials we use the better...

[jeffgude]

There is also an indoor park there, www.raysmtb.com , that was a completely man-made course with tons of moving obstacles. Waivers were required there as well. Contact numbers are on the site, if someone wants to check on their insurance.

This is a far different situation. I assume you signed a waiver before riding at Ray's. I also see that admission is $19 or $22 per visit.

No one signs a waiver to ride at Lebanon, and obviously there is no fee.

[fasterfoster]

Correct. Nobody is overly concerned about the loss of the teeters. THey are gone, end of story. If they start coming after other things, which I do not believe will happen, we can start circling the wagon.

As I stated earlier, I fully support the boards decision, but...
1) I'll miss the teeters
2) time will tell. I DO NOT TRUST INSURANCE COMPANIES and believe that this is just the first step to eliminate more technical trails.

[ryno lite]

Having just moved here from NE Ohio, I was surprised by the difference in the trails... thinking the areas had similar terrain. The local MTB chapter in NE Ohio is the Cleveland Area MTB Assoc. The website is www.camba.us
It might be worth while checking how they insure. We had far fewer parks allow biking trails, but had plenty of obstacles, including some teeters.

Also, there were a few private property courses that had in crazy obstacles. They had riders sign waivers prior to riding. This was an "honor system", and was not a manned station.

There is also an indoor park there, www.raysmtb.com , that was a completely man-made course with tons of moving obstacles. Waivers were required there as well. Contact numbers are on the site, if someone wants to check on their insurance.

The whole teeter change thing only happened on October 15. All IMBA clubs nationwide were insured for teeters till that point. I wouldn't be surprised if many more teeters across the country have been removed in October. Chances are if you see a teeter, the group that put it out is taking a risk and is not insured for this obstacle. The parks are probably insured, but the volunteers who built and maintained it probably aren't insured. Nothing will probably happen, but we won't expose our great volunteers to this financial risk.

[MatthewVinez]

Having just moved here from NE Ohio, I was surprised by the difference in the trails... thinking the areas had similar terrain. The local MTB chapter in NE Ohio is the Cleveland Area MTB Assoc. The website is www.camba.us
It might be worth while checking how they insure. We had far fewer parks allow biking trails, but had plenty of obstacles, including some teeters.

Also, there were a few private property courses that had in crazy obstacles. They had riders sign waivers prior to riding. This was an "honor system", and was not a manned station.

There is also an indoor park there, www.raysmtb.com , that was a completely man-made course with tons of moving obstacles. Waivers were required there as well. Contact numbers are on the site, if someone wants to check on their insurance.

[Paul Swenson]

rabbit trail.....

I remember being 6-8 years old and having my teeter totter partner slip off the end while I was in the air. I remember coming down hard and fast and my tailbone hurt for quite a while.

......now back to the thread.

Have you seen the new teeter totters on the playground? They've been engineered so you no longer can do that.

Sadly it's the way of the world these days.

[Stonehenge]

rabbit trail.....

I remember being 6-8 years old and having my teeter totter partner slip off the end while I was in the air. I remember coming down hard and fast and my tailbone hurt for quite a while.

......now back to the thread.

Yeah, and how many people learned that the hard way....plenty. And how many people then showed that to someone else...the hard way....Plenty
Hahhhhhhhh !

Learning MTB if found the same scenario....let them ride that way for now until he is beat down....we will tell him later....
__________________________________________________ ________
Carefull who you ride with........

.....now segway back to the thread

[quickerpicker]

rabbit trail.....

I remember being 6-8 years old and having my teeter totter partner slip off the end while I was in the air. I remember coming down hard and fast and my tailbone hurt for quite a while.

......now back to the thread.

[gopherhockey]

It really doesn't sound like there is a crusade against all fun bike obstacles, just ones with moving parts... for now.

Correct. Nobody is overly concerned about the loss of the teeters. THey are gone, end of story. If they start coming after other things, which I do not believe will happen, we can start circling the wagon.

Otherwise we now have good coverage and are fully compliant with our insurance requirements (for those trails designated as MORC trails)

Non MORC trails are on their own for liability and lawsuit defense etc. We have suggested to a few of these trail leaders to be sure to cover themselves.

The board has voted on and has a list of the "official" MORC trails.

[dave t]

Remember when they took all the teeter totters out of our playgrounds? Well, what steps were taken to get them back?

I haven't even seen a teeter totter in a playground around here for a looooong time. I don't think my daughter has ever been on one and she's twelve. Those things clamped on top of a big spring don't count either.

It sounds to me like the only solution to the moving obstacle problem is to get insurance that will cover them. Until that happens, it's a matter of finding the ones that don't get removed (on non-IMBA / MORC trails) if you need a teeter fix.

It really doesn't sound like there is a crusade against all fun bike obstacles, just ones with moving parts... for now.

[Mandabr15]

Through the League of Minnesota Cities which will not cover MORC (mentioned in previous replies to this thread) and they have strict requirements/criteria on how skate parks are built and operated by cities.

Thanks for the info! (and I have read the previous replies to this thread amazingly enough). But its not just Minnesota. They are popping up in little towns in other states as well. Does every state have a "League of Minnesota Cities"? I don't know, and I'm not necessarily willing to do the legwork either. I truly think things will evolve in a positive way with time.