Winter Rides

[THOMAS]

Hello,
Im new to the forum and Im learning a lot. Just wondering everyones thoughts about winter riding and what are the best metro trails for winter rides. Is winter riding something that most of you take part in and are there any mechanical or maintenance concerns for the bike?
Thanks for the replys,

TOM

[gopherhockey]

Winter riding can be a lot of fun. There have been a few related discussions, but seeing the snow coming down this is a good time to talk about this again.

I'll let some others cover the mechanical part. All I know is that I use a "winter bike" and do not take out my good bike for winter riding. Oh, and get some good tires with studs, like some Nokians. bikeman.com has a lot of options. (no UST options though.. hmmm.) Always shop local if you can, but I don't believe any local shop carries studded tires.

Many of the local trails close in the winter. I think River Bottoms has been one of the ol' standby winter rides for most people. Places like Terrace Oaks was closed way back mid October when it was still like 80 degrees out. Lebanon Hills varies, but with the snow we're getting this weekend we could see it closing by Dec. 1 again like last year to make way for the skiiers. (you can always check the trail conditions page for the final status on all local trails..)

I only just got into winter riding last year, but really enjoy extending the season as much as possible. With all the cookies, bars, candies and foods that start coming out this time of year I can sure use a longer bike season.

[nigel]

Id say the best bet is use a "winter bike" as John said......even then youll need to take a lil care of it, like lubing the chain after every ride.....not really cleaning it but just putting it on.

I use a modifed geared bike as a 4sp in the winter. Single speeds work great too!!! I use to do that till my commute got a hill in it. If going unicogger pick a gear for you, remember its harder to ride in snow.

As for tires, I just use some big ole 2.1's with an aggressive tread, some use narrow, some use bigger, some use studs. Depends on where your riding.....trails, pavement, streets, commuting....ect..

The reason to NOT use your good bike in the winter, is the wet, salt and cold, will destroy your chain, cassette, derailleurs, cables, housing, pretty much all hardware, ect.... Its best not have to replace expensive stuff every spring, thus the winter bike. If you have an old frame or complete bike lying around, you can make it into a single speed pretty cheap. Gimmie a holler and Ill help you out :)

But I must admit, I had to weasel out and get a ride to work today....just was not feeling like doing the first snow comute quite yet

Douglas

[martini]

In total agreement on the "winter bike" thing. I VERY rarely take out my good bike in the winter. Only on the sunny dry days does it see daylight. My personal winter rig is an oooollllldd Trek raod frame I've got set up as a fixed gear.

Why fixed? there's even less to go wrong that on a SS(only hubs, BB, and HS to worry about). I also happen to think that its easier to control than a bike with rim brakes. I'm not one of the crazy messenger types that doesn't use brakes at all. I have them, and do use them, but conditions almost always make them not very effective. Heat build up makes the snow on the rim surface melt. The cold air then freezes that water, rendering the brakes inoperable. You end up getting much more control out of your rear wheel in that case. On drier days, the brake are important to have, cause well, stopping is good. I do try to avoid the biggest hills in town, but most hills are no trouble at all once you get used to the fixed thing.

In addition, the fixxie thing will also increase your pedaling techniquie tremendously. If you're curious, I'd totally have to suggest giving it a try. It's a very differnt cycling experience altogether. And super fun.

[SickBoy]

my Fisher singlespeed is my winter bike. I don't think I have done more than fifteen minutes of maintenance (outside of chain lube) on it since I built it up two years ago.

I use it during the summer too but thats not the point. my good hardtail and FS bike both stay inside during the winter.

[ostertoaster85]

Get fenders too. (Unless you like having a wet, muddy spot on your butt.)

My winter bike consists of a nashbar brand frame and cheap rigid fork I got at Erik's. Then, I built it up with a combination of parts from an old Specialized hardrock (I bent the frame), and parts from some kind of target brand bike. The big chainring was bent but I took the crankarm off and wacked it on a concrete floor, which straighted it out. And, I never got aroung to finding a cheap front derailleur, so it doesn't have one.

The only exception I made to the cheap parts theory was that I put a pair of Time clipless pedals on it. (There were people that told me "once you use them you won't be able to go back." Well, they were right.) The bike actually ended up suprisingly light. I put my racing wheels on it and used it for cyclocross.

Anyways, I'll stop rambling about my bike.

[JayT]

I'm using my same bike, but I swapped out my suspension fork for a rigid one - and I put on some 2.5 fatties. Problem is I keep flatting the rear. Seems the large tyre rotates on the rim under force and shears the stem.... psssss

I like to run 'em at a little lower psi, but I think I'll have to get a big-fat tube and ad a little more pressure. Any other ideas??

[socrates]

Originally posted by nigel7780
The reason to NOT use your good bike in the winter, is the wet, salt and cold, will destroy your chain, cassette, derailleurs, cables, housing, pretty much all hardware, ect.... Its best not have to replace expensive stuff every spring, thus the winter bike. If you have an old frame or complete bike lying around, you can make it into a single speed pretty cheap. Gimmie a holler and Ill help you out :)


Yeah...the roof rack came off Saturday morning...the bike will ride inside the SUV until the spring now :cryin:

[SPR]

REI carries studded tires, couldn't find the price though. You can always make your own studded tires.
BTW REI has some good bike clothing prices during their Winter sale.

[SickBoy]

Originally posted by SPR
You can always make your own studded tires.

This was my secret to a 2nd place finish in the B race at the Chilly Chili last year. I used my roommate's home-studded tires which have at least 1/4" of exposed screw threads. Lots of drag on the long straight section but I think I was the only person pedaling through all the corners.... :D

[KleinCrazy]

Andy,

How were the screws set up?

From everything I have heard, you should use very few screws right down the center.

front wheel none down the center and the ones on the side barely touch, if at all when in a straight line.

rear wheel, none right down the center but slightly of set of countersunch so that you have traction but not running on screws only. same side setup as the front.

[SPR]

When I built my studded tires I didn't follow any method as you stated. I put screws in every other knob of the tire and have screws down the center as well as on the sides. I think the real secret to good traction is how cold the ice. When it was as cold as the Chilly Chili last year, the ice was much harder and the screws don't bite in as well. I used lower pressure to have a bigger footprint and get better traction. When the ice is warmer the screws bite better and you can run higher pressure.

[nigel]

Jay T......presta or schraeder?

Im going to guess schreader?!?

Have you tried loading baby powder inside between the tire and tube...I have this problem once, and that stopped it, then the tire may move but the tube stays instead of sticking to the tire. I would also get a tube that can handle that large of a tire as well, smaller ones work but dont at the same time. Maybe even try a heavier guage rubber tube as well, the stem will be alot tougher.

Douglas

[JayT]

Douglas, thanks. Trouble is now I gotta get a new tire before I can try out your tips. I trashed one last night ridding home on it flat. Oh well, it was old & crusty (literally) anyway.

[guest_s]

Forget studs man. Just learn to have really good balance on the ice and when accelerating, be real slow and gradual.

[Don Youngdahl]

Originally posted by nigel7780
Id say the best bet is use a "winter bike" .....

I see no need for a "winter bike" if your riding is trails only, with no more than a few blocks on the streets to your riding area.

Both my recent FS bikes have held up well to winter trail riding, with the right care and maintenance. I lube the chain and derailleurs every ride, and bring it in the basement & dry it off with a fan after riding. Cables have been no problem, as my new bike has hydraulic discs and good sealing grommets on the shifter cables, and my former bike had Goretex cable liners, a great maintenence saving accessory, summer or winter.

Since the discussion in this thread has touched on studs, I'll repeat what I've said before. If you're buying studded tires, get genuine tungsten carbide studs. If ther're not real pricey, they're likely not tungsten carbide, and will dull quickly. I saw results of hardness testing on the web a few years ago, by an independent tester, a rider who knew metallurgy & had access to hardness testing. Nokia had the highest hardness rating.

Some dealers don't know or care about the difference between high carbon steel and tungsten carbide, but anybody that's struggled on icy surfaces with X-C ski poles with dull high carbon steel tips certainly knows and appreciates the difference.

Don Youngdahl

[SickBoy]

Originally posted by KleinCrazy
Andy,

How were the screws set up?

From everything I have heard, you should use very few screws right down the center.

front wheel none down the center and the ones on the side barely touch, if at all when in a straight line.

rear wheel, none right down the center but slightly of set of countersunch so that you have traction but not running on screws only. same side setup as the front.

Brute force style. Screws sticking out equally on every knob. Man are they heavy too. But the thing is I doubt that a tire set up as you suggest would be as grippy.

Seeing as how I really didn't ride last winter other than the Chilly Chili it really isn't a bother to me. If I did more riding it might be.

[BrightYellow]

I agree with Don, if you are biking on the trails, I don't think you need a winter only bike. I've ridden both my bikes all winter long and even though I'm no saint with maintenance, they have both held up really well.

Of course, I don't ride wet trails, so that eliminates the mud/dirt issue. And I haul my bike inside my truck, so that does away with the road crap. After/Before riding, I just have to wipe it down quick and lube it.

I use the Nokian 296 EXTREME! tires. They work really, really well. I've never had a problem with them and this is my 3rd or 4th season on them.

Winter riding rocks!

-D

[SickBoy]

Originally posted by manual63
Forget studs man. Just learn to have really good balance on the ice and when accelerating, be real slow and gradual.

As crazy as this may sound it does make a lot of sense. Studs really only work on glare ice. Anything short of ice will show little benefit from studs.

[guest_s]

Originally posted by SickBoy
As crazy as this may sound it does make a lot of sense. Studs really only work on glare ice. Anything short of ice will show little benefit from studs.

I tried studs once, but even in the winter most of the surface you ride on is still concrete or tar........so then they make noise and wear down. If your ice racing, studs are great, but otherwise, just a set of skinny knobbies works great!

[KleinCrazy]

My below suggestions are for glare Ice tires and hardpack snow with little bits of non frozen surfaces.

By having the studs in contact with the surface you are riding on, ONLY when you are trying to turn, i.e. the only time you really need them, you can roll faster and they are lighter and last longer.

Rear studs in contact when straight is always a personal choice, some put in only 10 or 12 with minimul dig, slower accelaration but less weight. Some put in 20-30 with minimul dig, faster accelaration with more weight.

It is always up to the rider.

I am already planning out my spacing for the Chilli this year. Only problem is I have very little clearance of the rear V brake so I am either going to run Front disc only, or slip the Canti's back on. Hell I might just build up a Coaster braked Wheel or fixie it and be done with all that stopping crap.

L8er
James

[JayT]

The IceBike site has been around for awhile. They've got lots of info on equipment, cloths, etc..

check 'em out >> IceBike (http://users.rcn.com/icebike/)

[mtnbykr]

we've found [by riding year-round on the same trails....] that studds help a bunch on snow, ice, logs, bridges, etc. the best ride i did was up the lester river when it was froze. the ice was like glass and you needed studds just to stay upright.

qbp has some generic studded tires-
tr5260 [26x2.1]
&
tr5264 [700cx45]

these tires are cheep & heavy but work well. the studds last at least 2 seasons, but we don't ride on the pavemnet much if at all.

now that we have snow, if anyone wants to ride come on up.

here's what we rode all last winter....

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/snowsingletrack02.jpg

we also ride our "regular" bikes. no need for winter bikes. ss is probably the best option, if you worry about derailuers and such...

here's some more winter rides-

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/winter105.jpg

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/winter115.jpg

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/winter116a.jpg

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/winter118a.jpg

k

[KleinCrazy]

Oh Man,

You would have to post a pic of my loss due to not knowing the joys of the SS.

I want My Carbon Mantra back to turn into a single. WHAAAAA

[noise_is_life]

I bought some tire chains on ebay late last winter just for kicks, but haven't tried them out yet.

They seem to be out of fashion (maybe for good reasons), does anyone have any experience with them?

[nigel]

For commuting I actually prefer them to studs, they dont eat up the road as much and still work almost as good.

[mwestlake]

How 'bout this ice "bike". It's a blast to ride! (drive?) Designed and built by students at Saint Thomas Academy.

[guest_s]

That's DOPE!

[noise_is_life]

I finally got my hardtail converted to SS, so I put the chains on today just to see how they work. They are kind of pain to get on.

First impression, BUMPY! I just rode them on the pavement and ice in my alley, so I imagine they would be a little better in the snow. They definitely work though.

Does anybody still make chains? I wasn't able to find anybody on the internet that is still in business.

[TML]

Night ride at Leb this friday 12/5 if anyone is interested. Check out the Group Rides forum.

[noise_is_life]

Well since nobody wants to talk about it, I'll just have a little discussion all by myself :)

I finally kicked my cold enough to get out on my bike a bit today, SS, chains and all. Whew! Who needs hills, I just rode around on the Cedar lake paved trail and the easy trail around brownie and that was enough. Holy rolling resistance!

I dig the SS though, it is somehow relaxing not having to worry about gears...painful, but relaxing. The chains work great too, the bumpiness turns into a pronounced vibration once you get up to speed, wierd, but not a big deal.

I think 2:1 (32/16) is a little big for me though, works great on the flats, but I can't imagine getting up too many hills.

[mtnbykr]

i've not ran chains only the generic studded tires that are available thru qbp.

i've found that changing the gearing on a ss a couple of teeth lower for winter helps a bunch. i've also never ran 2/1, always something in the 34/18-19 summer and 34/20-21 winter.

kl

[noise_is_life]

Thanks for the response, I was starting to feel shunned. :)

How much do those tires go for?

[mtnbykr]

call your fav bike store, the qbp # is tr5260. they can give you a price. i'd guess around $40 each. cheep compared to the nokians and w/ replaceable studds, they should last several winters for of riding.

kl

[noise_is_life]

Originally posted by mtnbykr
call your fav bike store, the qbp # is tr5260. they can give you a price. i'd guess around $40 each. cheep compared to the nokians and w/ replaceable studds, they should last several winters for of riding.

kl

That's about what I've seen. I got my chains for $25, hopefully they will last me a while.

[TML]

Hey Pat, I know what you are saying about the vibe factor that chains produce once you get up to speed. Not so bad on snow but you get 'em on a hard surface and you can definitely feel them.

When I was in college I made a set for my rear tire and rivet studded my front tire. Quite the operation. :eyeroll: That setup was heavy as all get out and a terror to ride on the streets but boy, drop into a low gear and I could ride through just about anything.:cool:

[noise_is_life]

Rivet studding, haven't heard of that, sounds like a good idea.

I rode the bottoms on Sun. and they were much better on the snow. The one's that I have don't help a ton with cornering traction though, not sure if that is normal.

I sounds like if I want another set in the future I will probably have to make them myself. I doesn't see like anyone sells them anymore.

[mtnbykr]

"The one's that I have don't help a ton with cornering traction though, not sure if that is normal."

that would be the downfall w/ chains. because they run from right to left across the tire, when you corner and lay the tire over, you are then on sled runners.

you'll see the groomers on ski hills able to climb almost vertical but if they turn across the fallline, the ice cleats on the tracks act just like skates. and away you go....

kl

[noise_is_life]

Originally posted by mtnbykr
"The one's that I have don't help a ton with cornering traction though, not sure if that is normal."

that would be the downfall w/ chains. because they run from right to left across the tire, when you corner and lay the tire over, you are then on sled runners.

you'll see the groomers on ski hills able to climb almost vertical but if they turn across the fallline, the ice cleats on the tracks act just like skates. and away you go....

kl

I hadn't thought of it that way, that makes sense, I just figured it was because the chains didn't wrap far enough around the tire.

[SprocketHead]

Does anybody know how well studded tires hold up on pavement?... I have a favorite ride which includes 20 miles of pavement before I get to a snow/ice covered trail.