Pave The River Trails?

[gopherhockey]

Minnesota River Trail Paving?

We have until November 21 to provide our comments on their proposed "improved surface" at the MN River Bottoms trails. (DNR defines this as crushed gravel or asphalt.)

The proposed plan is located on the DNR website http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/input/mgmtplans/parks and the information pertaining to the Cedar Ave to Bloomington Ferry section can be found on pages 49-51 of the document. Comments can be submitted via their website, fax at 651-297-1157, phone at 651-284-0263, or mail to Nancy Albrecht Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Box 39, 500 Lafayette Rd.
St. Paul, MN 55155-4039

Please do your best to get some input into this project while we all still have this opportunity.


This has been posted by request to raise the visibility of this issue. To read more on this, please go to the thread located here:

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9860&forumid=27

[Don Youngdahl]

Thought I’d make some belated comments on the meeting last Tuesday on the Minnesota River Valley State Recreation Area. Perhaps my comments can benefit those who’ve not yet sent their comments to the DNR. Thanks for showing up to Bill B, Chris W, Dennis P, Dirk D, Jason V, Michael H, Nicole T, and all the mountain bikers I forgot or didn’t recognize.

For those lacking the time to peruse the lengthy plan document, here’s some more pages I bookmarked that contain statements pertinent to our concerns: pp xii-xii, 5-7, 39-41, 49-51, and 81-82. There’s repetition in the later parts of the plan, and you may well find other items that interest you, particularly if your interests go beyond off-road cycling in Bloomington.

As you read this, you’ll see that the DNR readily acknowledges that a natural surface trail is preferred in the Bloomington area, yet they propose an improved surface trail, and use statements like “state of the art trail design and construction techniques”. In the discussion they waffled around with statements that “improved surface” didn’t necessarily mean paved or crushed limestone, and at other times referred to crushed limestone as “natural surface”. In short, they still JUST DON’T GET IT regarding what off-road cyclists, hikers, and all the other users want down there.

We fully support having a designated, marked, and managed trail, and we support improving the trail to the extent that drainages, streams, gullies, and bogs are fixed with bridges, culverts, boardwalks, etc. But, repeat after me, Mr. DNR, CRUSHED LIMESTONE OR ASPHALT IS NOT A NATURAL SURFACE TRAIL.

You’ll find statements about a trail “designed and maintained in an ecologically sensitive, sustainable, and fiscally responsible manner.” If you think about those three points a bit, a true natural surface trail, with the alignment changing slightly as nature floods and re-floods the area, I think you’ll see that a natural surface trail wins handily on all three points. If you agree with this, explain the reasons in your comments to the DNR. Crushed limestone is likely the costliest of the improved surface trail surfaces in a flood-prone environment, as the rock is washed away or buried under silt after each flood, necessitating almost a complete re-application of rock.

Page 81 mentions maintenance. Organized mountain bikers are establishing solid partnering arrangements with many land managers for trail maintenance, and it’s certainly possible here also.

Please don’t worry if you think you don’t have the writing skills to express yourself in your comments. Here’s a true story. A man I know in my “former life” had been a top aid for Governor Perpich, who had to deal with many controversial issues. On one rural Minnesota issue, the Governor had many slick, well-written and almost identical letters pro and con, and he also had one letter, written in pencil on a brown paper bag, with bad spelling and bad grammar. As he read the letter, the Governor reflected on how much effort it must have been for that man to struggle to get his thoughts on paper, and how much the issue must have meant to him. That letter motivated him to take a harder and more serious look at the situation before making a decision. I’ve suggested some talking points, but I won’t provide sample letters.

Funding constraints and priorities likely mean that this project is a long way away (maybe by then I’ll want it paved for my wheelchair!), but we need to speak up to get a good plan and to help educate the DNR on what off-road cyclists want.

Please refer to John’s previous post for info on where to write. Yes, it’s apparently true that the DNR does not accept e-mail comments on issues like this. Perhaps they don’t want to make it too easy, but if we’re serious, that should be OK. If they get a lot of letters, they’ll know it means a lot to us.

Don Youngdahl

[manual63]

They have been talking about this for sooooo loooong and it never goes away. I get to the point that no matter what it takes, they are gonna pave the trail. It doesn't matter how many people don't want it or how rediculous of an idea it is, someone with some power wants it there and they will keep trying till they get it..........aaaarrrgghhh!!!

Hmmm, sounds kinda like the stupid stadium deal. It just never dies no matter how often it's shot down!!!

[socrates]

They have been talking about this for sooooo loooong and it never goes away. I get to the point that no matter what it takes, they are gonna pave the trail. It doesn't matter how many people don't want it or how rediculous of an idea it is, someone with some power wants it there and they will keep trying till they get it..........aaaarrrgghhh!!!

Hmmm, sounds kinda like the stupid stadium deal. It just never dies no matter how often it's shot down!!!
Well unfortunately today you have a very diverse group using the trail, when someone begins talking about making improvements each group wants it improved for their own purpose (walkers/hikers want it paved...bikers want it left alone)

[Don Youngdahl]

. I get to the point that no matter what it takes, they are gonna pave the trail. It doesn't matter how many people don't want it or how rediculous of an idea it is, someone with some power wants it there and they will keep trying till they get it......
That's the classic negative thinking, self-fulfilling prophecy - if you say you'll be beat, your prediction is bound to come true.

We hold all the high cards in this game, and we know how to play them. If you don't think dedicated citizens can't affect the course of government affairs by being involved, then you've not been paying attention to current affairs the last 30 years.

Don Youngdahl

[socrates]

That's the classic negative thinking, self-fulfilling prophecy - if you say you'll be beat, your prediction is bound to come true.

We hold all the high cards in this game, and we know how to play them. If you don't think dedicated citizens can't affect the course of government affairs by being involved, then you've not been paying attention to current affairs the last 30 years.

Don Youngdahl
Very well said Don. And again thanks for all your efforts at RB over the years, it's alot easier to deal with an official trail at times than a semi-official one like RB and you've always been keeping a watchful eye out for us (plus all the work you've done on the trail as well)

Dave

PS Don for RB President! :D

[Tetreves]

I was following this fairly closely last fall. I sent in some comments to the DNR, and recieved a letter back the other day (which basically said thanks for your input).

I havn't kept up on this issue over the winter, have they come to any decision as of yet?

-ed

[seberly]

There have been no changes as of this time - we reviewed and commented on a "draft" plan - presumably there will be a final plan.

Regarding influencing change and politics I heard a neat quote the other day - it goes something like this: a man who says they are uninterested in politics is like a drowning man saying they are not interested in water....or something like that.....we all need to do our part....thanks for doing yours.

[manual63]

That's the classic negative thinking, self-fulfilling prophecy - if you say you'll be beat, your prediction is bound to come true.

We hold all the high cards in this game, and we know how to play them. If you don't think dedicated citizens can't affect the course of government affairs by being involved, then you've not been paying attention to current affairs the last 30 years.

Don Youngdahl
Well, I have, but I still get frustrated. I feel like this debates been going on for like 8 years or so......oh, that's because it has....