Multi-use trail issues

[99FSRComp]

I was riding the riverbottoms this afternoon, enjoying what seems like has to be one of the last beautiful fall afternoons. I picked the riverbottoms for it's natural beauty. I planned on a leisurely ride with a few stops to enjoy the view. I rode from the Bloomington Ferry trailhead to the raft re: log ;) , and chatted with some folks there. Then I started the ride back to the trailhead. I caught up to a couple of riders at the part of the trail that goes around a creek making it's way to the river. It's west of the swing bridge, just west of the area that was posted as Isaac Walton League land. Well, we came up on a man and woman hikers that were not having a good day, and decided to stand in the middle of the trail and tell us bikers that we weren't supposed to be on the trail. They said we passed a sign that says so. A few of us tried to reason with them, but they just wanted to argue. They were VERY adamant that they were right. If my memory is correct, the sign says that bikers can ride there as long as they stay on the trail. Has that status changed? This confrontation kind of tarnished what should have been a great afternoon ride/hike for alot of people. I wonder how many people those hikers confronted?

I realize that this is going to be a problem with multi-use trails, but all users need to be aware of the rules of use.

[nigel]

I too saw that sign the other day nailed up on the tree. I figure it meant all the land behind the sign?? I saw nobody there though. If it was the land near the river woud the sign not be placed on the actual trail so riders can view it as they go in and out? Not sure whats going on down there nowdays.

Douglas

[seberly]

As far as I know the trail is "considered" multi use. Wether everyone knows that or not is unclear.

It sounds as if you responded properly by being courteous to this couple - thanks very much for that! In no case should any riders get beligerent with hikers or others - it will always be best to take the high road. I hope other users did the same. It is also always good to be deferential to hikers by calling out (or using a bell) and being overly obvious that you are slowing and are ready to stop for them - most of the time they will stand aside, but I guess there is always a chance they won't, and they don't have to.

There were definitely a lot of hikers out there today and there will continue to be as the bugs are gone.

I was on the trail with some others doing maintenance from about 9:30 until 2:30 so it is interesting that we didn't encounter these people (I didn't anyway) - I also saw about 6 families out there today with kids on small MTB's or BMX bikes - very cool!

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Tom S.


In addition to this I'd like to point out that all the Ricky Racer types that thought there was a time trial out there today are not helping us when it comes to public relations. These guys are out there in small groups making people avoid them so as to not get run over. I got a few dirty looks as I came through after these guys.:mad: And then on the return trip here they come again hammer down and I'm off the trail in order to not get run down.:hit: :mad:

We are our own worst enemy sometimes no matter how curtious we are to hikers. There will always be the "Flanders" types out there hammering the trail (sorry to pick on them, but I often see them so they came to my mind right away... definitely one of the least curitous of the lot).

Someone ought to make it their mission to stop these individuals and talk to them.. nicely if possible..

Its obvious they aren't on the forums, probably never donated time nor money to a local bike organization.

[99FSRComp]

Originally posted by Tom S.

In addition to this I'd like to point out that all the Ricky Racer types that thought there was a time trial out there today are not helping us when it comes to public relations. These guys are out there in small groups making people avoid them so as to not get run over. I got a few dirty looks as I came through after these guys.:mad: And then on the return trip here they come again hammer down and I'm off the trail in order to not get run down.:hit: :mad:

To me, the bikers that are in "race mode" and seem to have a general disregard for other bikers is one thing I don't like about this two-way trail. I always seem to be the one to hit the weeds to avoid an oncoming rider. It also seems like a waste not to slow down and "smell the roses" once in awhile. I'm guilty of that myself.;)

[pwpatton]

Uh oh, I've seen this before (up close unfortunately) at other trails. A hiker gets pissed (for whatever reason) and starts acting like a trail cop.

We will always have uncourteous people whether they be bikers or hikers NO MATTER WHAT!!! .... that is unfortunate but it is reality.

Sounds like the best thing to do here is to find out what is going on, get in a dialog with any disputing party and have the land manager there to see it. If bikers take the high road then the hikers will seem as if they are being unreasonable (if in fact they are).

Only one other thing to note though, another unfortunate part of human nature, is that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. I don't think it pays for bikers to be "squeeky" about this but it is a tactic that hikers have used successfully in the past and will probably employ in the future.

[zerpy]

I was riding with Doug the other day when we saw the sign. It is slightly off of the trail and I probably would not have seen the sign had we not stopped for a breather in that area as I would be looking down the trail.

I took it to mean the land north of the trail. Seemed like some private group was either trying to claim ownership to that end of the trail or the trail comes right up to the southern edge of their property. In the latter case that meant to me to keep my butt on the trail (not a problem), in the former case I would give no credit to their ridiculous claim until there is some sort of legitimate public notification, say in the trail head or better signage ON THE TRAIL.

So far, the couple of times I have ridden the trail hikers have always seemed very courteous and friendly. I've tried to do the same by slowing way down when passing and shouting out my presence well in advance as not to startle them. Sadly, other bikers have been the rude people I've encountered. Granted it has only been a few out of them very many bikers on the trail. But a good courteous biker you shouldn't hardly notice, and a rude one leaves a lasting impression. Yes, at least one of them had a flanders jersey on. And actually, he was the rude one the other riders in his group were much more courteous - although not nearly as much as many others on the trail that day.

Even the teenagers on BMX bikes were very friendly and courteous. Sorry for the generalizations here Shad, but this does show the point. The teenage BMXers that stick in your head are the punks (like a lot of the brats that ride around my neighborhood, but don't live there- would like to know where they're coming from). So when you see a group of them on the trail the first reaction was apprehension and was expecting an attitude and I was expecting to get pushed off of the trail by a rude teenager. Then I was pleasantly surprised by how they really were. It made me think that if a few punk kids can make us think that "BMXers" in general are punks, a couple of rude MTBers can make hikers think we are all rude, inconsiderate trail hogs...

[dennis porter]

The area that the Isaak Walton League does not want you on is where the sign is posted leading up to their property. The other portions of the trail is all grey area. However, technically the US Fish and Wildlife land is up to their discretion and they could at any time issue it off limits to bikes. It's too bad the hikers went to this extreme. I do sympathize with them some because if it's a busy day it's tough for other trail users to enjoy the trail. All you can do is take the high road and disagree with them but be nice. By you taking the high road it can make them question their stance rather than them getting mad so they call US Fish and raise the bar on this issue. Let's hope we don't have more of these types of situations.
Dennis.

[pwpatton]

Yes, "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Unfortunately there are people out there that want to be mad and a soft answer will not always do the trick. I'm not worried about a resolveable problem or a misunderstanding. It's the person with and agenda that concerns me. This sounds like the former... Hopefully.

I've seen very little of the rudeness lately by either bikers or hikers but I think Jason is exactly right: People tend to remember the bad and not the good so a single incident and a humans propensity for hyperbole ("all mountain biker are rude!" for example) can sometimes cause problems.

I go out of my way to say hi or stop and chat to help represent bikers as just another user of the trail who respects other types of usages. I'm hoping that person will in turn give me and other bikers the same.

[SickBoy]

I hate to say it but this "Ricky Racer" generalization thing is off base as well. 90% of the time when someone hammers past me without yielding trail or slowing down or whatnot, it isn't anyone I recognize from the racing scene. In fact, a lot of the racers that I do recognize while riding down there are very courteous, more so than a lot of other trail users.

Flanders, on the other hand... who knows.

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by SickBoy
I hate to say it but this "Ricky Racer" generalization thing is off base as well. 90% of the time when someone hammers past me without yielding trail or slowing down or whatnot, it isn't anyone I recognize from the racing scene. In fact, a lot of the racers that I do recognize while riding down there are very courteous, more so than a lot of other trail users.


Point well taken. It really isn't for us to generalize any one group into a category such as this. One does wonder what these guys are doing bombing down the trail like that if they aren't training to do some kind of racing, but you are right - doesn't necessarily mean these are typical race people.

As a whole I think it is the large minority that act this way (as someone said already I think) - we just happen to notice them more... and so do the hikers.

Well put Andy..

[zerpy]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Point well taken. It really isn't for us to generalize any one group into a category such as this. One does wonder what these guys are doing bombing down the trail like that if they aren't training to do some kind of racing, but you are right - doesn't necessarily mean these are typical race people.

As a whole I think it is the large minority that act this way (as someone said already I think) - we just happen to notice them more... and so do the hikers.

Well put Andy..


Hmmm, please don't take this as griping, but I didn't take the ricky racer comment as generalizing about racers. After all, it isn't a generalization, it's a fact that all racers have attitudes.... Just kidding :crazy:

No, actually I took the comment to mean one person who's "racing" down the trail. I didn't think it was meant as a demographic. But that's just the way I took it, but I'm not familiar with some of the "terms" as I'm pretty new to this, hobby...er... addiction.:)

Anyway, there's no reason why someone can't be bombing down the trail but still be attentive and mindful of others. Obviously that's difficult if the trail is very busy but it doesn't mean you get to be rude. Fly down the trail at breakneck speed - GREAT!!! Just be mindful that someone may be coming up.

[dennis porter]

Response from Ned Winters who is the caretaker of the Izaak Walton Leauge property along the River Trail. I would like to add that we need to make sure other bikers respect their wishes. We have a good relationship with them and will need their help to oppose the "improved trail plans". Please inform other riders of trail etiquette if they need it. - Thanks Dennis.

Gentleman,
The hikers are no one that I would know of from the Izaak Walton League. Our
Chapter is also opposed to the planned paving of the river bottoms and as
such has taken much the same stand as the bikers. Our official position is
"to share the trail with all other users". We are tolerant of the bikers as
long as they stay on the trail along the river, don't use our property as an
access point, and slow down to respect other users on our property.
I agree with Dennis as it can be difficult to walk along the trail, however,
to my knowledge, no one user group has a monopoly on the trail.
Hope this at least clarifies the IWLA position.
Ned Winters
Board Member - Mpls. Chapter IWLA

[zerpy]

Originally posted by dennis porter
Response from Ned Winters who is the caretaker of the Izaak Walton Leauge property along the River Trail. I would like to add that we need to make sure other bikers respect their wishes. We have a good relationship with them and will need their help to oppose the "improved trail plans". Please inform other riders of trail etiquette if they need it. - Thanks Dennis.

Gentleman,
The hikers are no one that I would know of from the Izaak Walton League. Our
Chapter is also opposed to the planned paving of the river bottoms and as
such has taken much the same stand as the bikers. Our official position is
"to share the trail with all other users". We are tolerant of the bikers as
long as they stay on the trail along the river, don't use our property as an
access point, and slow down to respect other users on our property.
I agree with Dennis as it can be difficult to walk along the trail, however,
to my knowledge, no one user group has a monopoly on the trail.
Hope this at least clarifies the IWLA position.
Ned Winters
Board Member - Mpls. Chapter IWLA


Well, that's good info! Plus is does verify how that sign was interpreted by most of us: That the trail was OK but the land off the trail there wasn't.