Get down!

[Trevize1138]

Q: Why do SUVs tip over easily?
A: Because they have a higher center of gravity (COG).

Another acceptible answer: they suck. :crazy:

But, enough about that, let's talk about getting low on the bike for cornering! A lot of this is simple, applied physics. The best cars for cornering are as low to the ground as possible, making them more stable when centrifugal force is pushing on them around a turn. And, the COG will be closer to the ground, rather than somewhere out in space 5 feet to the outside of the turn like in an SUV. This means more weight on the wheels and better traction.

The same applies to biking: the lower you are to the ground, the better traction your tires will have and the more stable the turn will be. The big difference between cars and bikes is 4 wheels vs. 2 wheels. I know, you're saying "duh!" but that means that it's a difference between something that leans *outward* on a turn vs. one that leans *inward.* Cars lean out, bikes lean in. When pushed to the limit, a 4-wheeled vehicle is prone to tip outward. A 2-wheeled vehicle is prone to lose traction and slide out, falling to the inside when pushed too far.

Take a lesson from snowboard "carvers" and "edged" skiiers. Their key to carving fast, sweeping turns with their bodies inches from the ground is all about compressing the body. At first glance, it may look like they're just leaning over, but it's more complex than that. They get at least a 90 degree bend in the knees and lean their chests toward the nose of their boards/skiis. The effect is the COG is placed directly on that metal edge cutting the snow, not somewhere out in no-man's-land 2 or 3 feet inside the turn from the edge. If the body is not compressed, the edge won't have enough weight on it, and they'll lose traction, causing the boards/skiis to slide out rather than cut a clean edge.

On a bike, if you're not sitting on the seat, use Shad's recommendation and pinch the seat with your thighs and keep your butt no higher than an inch or so off it. Then, bend those elbows and get your chest down to the stem. Just like with boards and skiis, the closer you get that COG to the "edge," or the knobbies as the case is, the more traction you'll have and the less likely you'll be to have the bike slide out on you.

Simple as that! :banana:

[SPR]

I suppose you could also deflate your tires to get a lower COG. :etard:

[firetruck]

Hey smart guy the correct abbreviation for center of gravity is CG.
The reason why an SUV tips over is because of driver error. Its not the vehicle's fault.

[noise_is_life]

I thought that was Computer Graphics.

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by firetruck
Hey smart guy the correct abbreviation for center of gravity is CG.
The reason why an SUV tips over is because of driver error. Its not the vehicle's fault.

True!

SUVs suck, are prone to tip over AND they have crappy drivers behind the wheel.

:crazy:

[manual63]

Originally posted by firetruck
Hey smart guy the correct abbreviation for center of gravity is CG.
The reason why an SUV tips over is because of driver error. Its not the vehicle's fault.

Wrong answer!!! During many SUV rollover tests, professional drivers could not even regain control. Fords were the worst with the Expedition and Explorer. Others from GM, Nissan, Mitsubishi were also very bad.

Now back to biking. Chris is right and I wrote a little about this in the pinching the seat section. The lower you are the better. Not only in corners, but going over logpiles and such too. If you are way high off the seat and standing upright, you have a higher risk of going over the bars or falling back. Stay low!!

[tmac]

Originally posted by manual63

Now back to biking. Chris is right and I wrote a little about this in the pinching the seat section. The lower you are the better. Not only in corners, but going over logpiles and such too. If you are way high off the seat and standing upright, you have a higher risk of going over the bars or falling back. Stay low!!

Judging from your knees on Tuesday, I'd say you were a little too low on a few of the corners, Shad.

Shad gets a banana for riding aggressively.

:banana:

[manual63]

Originally posted by tmac
Judging from your knees on Tuesday, I'd say you were a little too low on a few of the corners, Shad.

I call that the three point turn.

or

I could call it the Fricken BMXer can't get his foot out of the pedals turn.

[noise_is_life]

Beyond getting low, I have occasionally noticed that if I pull forward away from my seat in a high speed turn that I feel much faster and in control. It's never something I plan on, it just happens sometimes.

Is there anything to this, or is it just my imagination.

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by noise_is_life
Beyond getting low, I have occasionally noticed that if I pull forward away from my seat in a high speed turn that I feel much faster and in control. It's never something I plan on, it just happens sometimes.

Is there anything to this, or is it just my imagination.

That makes sense: get more traction to the front wheel. It's the same effect as on my snowboard where I lean my chest to the nose of the board and it digs in better. Putting your weight forward helps initiate the turn better and carries it through to the rear. If you leaned back, you'd be more likely to have the front slide out and that's when you have a bad time! ;) Having the rear wheel slide out on you is sometimes desireable, actually.

Keep in mind, though, there are serious differences between cornering on snow with metal edges and cornering on dirt with knobby tires. In snow, I can carve deep enough so that it's like I'm standing on a slight ledge, so I can really lean over. In fact, I'm seriously considering ELBOW patches on my jacket for this coming season! :shocked:

On a bike, you'll never be able to lean over that much. You can lean over and take a corner faster to a *point* if you get low and lean forward more, but there's only so much traction to be had there.

I highly recommend putting an inside foot out as you learn how to corner sharper. You can push your bike to the limits of what it will corner and still be able to catch yourself if the tires do slide out. In fact, that's where I started really learning how to corner faster: putting a foot out. Over time, I developed a better feel for when my bike slides out and was able to put my foot out less. But, there are still a few corners at Lebanon where putting a foot out realy helps you nail sketchy stuff.

[manual63]

If you know auto racing, you have heard of 50/50 weight distribution. Well, to get the best corner out of a bike, you should be postitioned with equal weight between the tires. If you have too much to the front, the rear will slide first. If you have too much to the rear, the front will slide out first. When both tires slide, you end up with scabs on your legs like I have..........:)

Taking a foot out on sketchy corners is a good idea. Sure, you may lose a split second because you can't power out right away, but if you slide, you lose more time, even if you don't fall. Sliding scrubs more speed than anything else. Pick a nice line, stay low and evenly weighted on your tires and carve it........:cool:

[firetruck]

Actually a controlled skid works best in most cornering situations. Race car drivers use it as well.

[manual63]

Originally posted by firetruck
Actually a controlled skid works best in most cornering situations. Race car drivers use it as well.

Don't say skid.......John might hear you.........shhhhh!

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by firetruck
Actually a controlled skid works best in most cornering situations. Race car drivers use it as well.

There is a big difference, however, between a race car's controlled skid and a bycicle. There's a big difference between a *motorcycle* in a controlled skid and a bycicle:

You're most likely not pedaling during a controlled skin on your bycicle.

;)

Motorized vehicles use a combination of the controlled skid *and* throttle power for faster cornering. Bikes can use controlled skids to a point, but not to the extreme that a motorized vehicle can.

[socrates]

Originally posted by Trevize1138
True!

SUVs suck, are prone to tip over AND they have crappy drivers behind the wheel.

:crazy:

I believe "prone" is a relative term...and your statement could also be worded like this: most cars going over a cliff are "prone" to crash

[socrates]

Originally posted by firetruck
Actually a controlled skid works best in most cornering situations. Race car drivers use it as well.


Yes but the pavement at the track holds up a heck of a lot better than the extremely dry dirt at Leb

[pwpatton]

The problem with a controlled skid is, depending on the skid ofcourse, it can slow down your speed significantly. Now if you're just out there having fun then a controlled skid is about one of the funnest things to do. But I've found very little use for it at speed.

Phillip

[manual63]

There was a BMX track in the 80's that had a flat left turn, no berm, and it was like 160 degrees. It was tough to do with a pack of 8 riders, but some guys thought it was faster to go way inside and then slide the rear wheel around the turn. Then they had to power out of the turn from almost a total stop. I learned to just take the whole outside line at speed with no skidding and even though they would pass me through the turn, I would pass them back down the next straight. It's about momentum and skidding or sliding may seem faster, but you lose your momentum.