Snowboardification???

[legoshoe]

I found an article on the I-net written about the sport starting to become too influenced by people that are trying to make mountain biking look "glamourious" and "simple". It's pretty interesting as are some of the other articles the guy has written. Just wanted to see what all you guys thought about this.

Here it is:
http://www.greatdividecyclery.com/techtalk/snowboard.html

tb

[Trevize1138]

Reactionary and simple-minded. There's always been an element to mountain biking of people who only do downhill and therefore never have to be in shape and think the sport is "easy." The only difference is the technology is changing to better accomodate downhill riding, jumping, tricks, etc.

I'd hardly say it's trying to make the sport look "easier." Riding downhill super fast does take bike handling and technical skills. Jumping and doing tricks definitely take skills. The sport is evolving, but it's not at the exclusion of cross-country riding, it's evolving to include various different styles of mountain biking.

In fact, strictly speaking, simply bombing down a hill super fast was the genesis of mountain biking, back when they put knobbie tires on those old cruisers in Marin Co. Only later did they add gears and incorporate the concept of climbing hills not just decending them.

If anything, it's a good move! If someone wants to pound on a "mountain bike" by jumping it or riding it super fast down hills, they can get bikes like the P2 that are designed to handle that. If you want to get in good shape and climb hills, there's an even greater variety of rides to choose from for that.

[gopherhockey]

Interesting.. Thanks for sharing the link.

I have been noticing the struggle that has been going on with the whole "freeride" movement - some mags embracing it, some rejecting it, organizations like IMBA trying to learn to "all get along".

I'm not exactly sure where I sit on the whole thing. Truely I don't care to have 50lb. bikes trying to make new ones where they don't currently exist... yet, I also think if we can get a person on a bike rather than sitting behind their Nintendo than all the better.

There is more than one way to ski, and more than one kind of ski park... so why can't this work for biking? I can downhill ski on easy hills if I want, or I can do some nasty double-black drop-ins if thats what I decide I want to do. I can even (and have) decide to snowboard instead of ski - but the idea is similar. Or, I can just cross country ski.. or even skate ski. They all exist, and I think in some ways they help the entire sport grow.

Why can't mountain biking have cross country, downhill, freeride etc. just like skiing? You don't see a lot of "cross country magazines" but you see a lot of them feature guys dropping down hills that 99.9% of us would never dare to try. It does attract people to the sport (buyers, media) which in turn provides more access.

Does this mean I like watching a freerider drop down a hill at Battle Creek and totally bypass the switchbacks on his way down? Not at all... but maybe if there were places (like Buck etc.) that actually allowed it we would get more young people into the sport that would eventually turn 30 and see that their backs and knees can't take the abuse, so they switch to XC biking as a natural progression.

I don't know.. I don't necessary really have a real strong opinion one way or another. I do think attracting more people to the sport is important...

[manual63]

Okay, I know this issue from personal experience. In the early 80's BMX racing was huge. Nobody really did tricks and it was all about speed. Sure, there was some jumping and an X-up or tabletop trick, but besides that, the sport was simple. In about 1984 Freestyle started to grow and grow fast it did. BMX racing started to die and by the late 80's and early 90's there were 4 or 5 BMX racing motos here in Minnesota. In the Early 80's it was like 70 motos or so. Freestylers had attitudes and it was all about the best trick or biggest air. You could do drugs, smoke, drink, or whatever and still be a good freestyler, but if you were a racer, you had to train and be clean to do good. Well, around '92 BMX racing started to grow again and it's fairly strong to this day. Freestyle has it's own thing going for it and is now on ESPN and has the X-Games and so fourth. Do people watch BMX races on TV?.....no, it's boring to watch. But to see Dave Mirra do a backflip barspin is fun to watch.

Whether you want to agree with me or not, mountain biking is newer than BMX and is going through the same growing pains. Like I have said once before, I am very glad to see this evolution. Now I can have a P.2 to thrash on and a nice lightweight cross country ride to do the distance and climbing. Other mountain bikers like to see me ride and they like to learn the skills. It adds and interesting element to the sport. Some of you want mountain biking to be riding road on a dirt trail.......well, I hate to mention this to you, but that's boring.

Look at how excited people are about the XX-Loop. Did MORC force people to ride it? No, they made a separate trail for those who want the extra challenge. It's fun and I am glad mountain biking has finally taken on a more BMX or skater attitude lately. It used to be road bikes with fat tires, but now they have bikes for everyones interest.

If those of you who love to climb hills and do the flat singletrack thing keep enjoying it and supporting it, you will alway's have a place to ride and races to race. If most riders start following a new trend, it's because they like it. That's how things evolve and those who wine about it are probably the one's who still listen to KQ92 because they think new music sucks......:).

BMX, skateboarding, and snowboarding went through the same phase. Guess what, Chris rides a downhill carving board and loves it. I ride a freestyle board and love it. We can both enjoy snowboarding and be good friends too.

[Trevize1138]

Seems to me this whole issue falls right back into the now tired, old "BMX vs. Mountain biker" or "Mountain biker vs. road biker" thing.

Sports change and evolve, and that's a good thing because otherwise you'd get bored with it. And, as Shad said, the sport of mountain biking is still in its infancy, so you're going to see a lot of changes right now.

I think, if some overweight pothead shows up and blows away a bunch of "fit" professional downhillers, that means the pro riders are all doing something wrong.

It's no different than Greg LeMond winning the Cheq easily: the race doesn't require the same, highly-technical skills that places like Lebanon do. Therefore, there's a problem with the race being classified as a "mountain bike" race because someone from a different sport can come in and dominate.

Mountain bikes that ride more like BMX bikes allow for the trail to be rougher but still rideable. Therefore, the trails will get rougher over time and the sport will gradually evolve away from just a road ride with knobbies.

The fear, then, is that it will become nothing short of just BMX riding on 26'' wheels. But, why would you want a BMX clone when you've already got that sport?

I know I've said this before, but I think the ideal that mountain biking should strive toward is trails that demand both physical endurance and strength like road biking, but also technical skill and ajility like BMX. It should be a sport where only true montain bikers prevail, not one that a road biker can dominate in because there's not much technical or that a BMXer can dominate in because it's *all* technical.

It's a biathalon challenge: you can be really good at one or the other, but unless you're really good at both, you won't win.

And that's why it's *good* to have hard core roadies and hard core BMXers designing trails for MORC. :) The roadies will ensure the trail moves fast enough and provides enough of a cardiovascular/anaerobic challenge and the BMXers will ensure there are enough jumps and rock gardens to keep you on your toes.

[manual63]

Originally posted by Trevize1138
And that's why it's *good* to have hard core roadies and hard core BMXers designing trails for MORC. :) The roadies will ensure the trail moves fast enough and provides enough of a cardiovascular/anaerobic challenge and the BMXers will ensure there are enough jumps and rock gardens to keep you on your toes.

Add in the fact that we have different loops so no one is forced to ride a hard trail with jumps and rock gardens. A place for different skill levels of riders. Kinda reminds of how a ski hill is.

[EmL34]

Not only is their music old, they have been running the same commercials on TV for the last 20 years!

[noise_is_life]

I always have to laugh at how much time some people spend talking about how other people ride their bikes, it's all good, just shut up and ride.:D

I guess everyone wants to feel "special".

My only complaint about some freeriders is that they sometimes ride off trail in fragile environments like desert crypto-crust. Not good.

[fasterfoster]

Do people watch BMX races on TV?.....no, it's boring to watch

As someone who just began racing BMX (occasionally) this year - as a 42 year old! - I agree with Shad. There's even a push for downhill BMX races, since it makes for better TV. The X-games started that a few years ago. And of course the similar downhill mountain bike race with four riders at a time. I think it's called (something) Cross. Of course NORBA is scrambling for anything at this point!

The point is, there's room for all types of riding.

[gopherhockey]

For those that have ever watched Warren Miller's ski movies, you'll remember how they were always all about the skiiers. Snowboards came out and they wouldn't touch em' for the first few years. Then - wow, one made it in. The next year it was all of a sudden about snow "riding" - they even threw in guys riding down on mountain bikes, shovels, boats etc. just to show how flexible they were now that they let boarders in their movies. Recently it seems like there are more snowboards in a WM film than guys that ski... regardless you see a bunch of people having a blast in the snow.

Hopefully our sport can grow like that too. More MORC members, more trail workers, more trails.. more group rides.. more people in the forums - more fun! ;)

Not that I'm hoping for a ton more riders out at Lebanon of course... its busy enough the way it is ;)

[socrates]

Originally posted by noise_is_life
I always have to laugh at how much time some people spend talking about how other people ride their bikes, it's all good, just shut up and ride.:D

I guess everyone wants to feel "special".

My only complaint about some freeriders is that they sometimes ride off trail in fragile environments like desert crypto-crust. Not good.

I'm with ya!!!

My New Motto..."Just shut up and ride" :)

Hmm...on 2nd thought I'll have to be careful when using that on the wife