Slooooowww shifting after a clean and relube

[zerpy]

I have a strange problem...

I recently cleaned out all the muck in my chain and gears, degreased everything and relubed (with white lightning). Since doing that, shifting between gears on my freewheel is really slow except for the 3 smaller gears, I can switch between them just fine. I'm talking several revolutions before the chain hopps over. I know it isn't a great derailleur, shimano alivio that came with my hardrock comp, but it was fine before I cleaned and relubed.

I checked alignment of the deraileur to make sure that didn't get screwed up and it seems to be moving into the proper positions just fine. Also, I added another layer of lube just-in-case. Still does it and it doesn't matter if I am shifting up or down.

Anyone ever see this kind of behaviour before? Any ideas what I might have done wrong or overlooked?

Thanks much,
jas

[Kingbozo]

Cables?

[jaybird]

When you cleaned your bike, how did you clean it? You may have gotten some extra crap in your cables and that could be causing the problem. Another question is this happening both shifting up and down or just one way?

[grizzly adam]

Maybe the cable got rerouted somewhere?
Did you move/lose your barrel adjusters?
I once had the cable going *over* something on the der instead of *through* it.....

[zerpy]

Nope didn't touch the cables and was careful not to get anything up in guides (or whatever those tubes are - sorry!). Yes, it happens when shifting both ways, up and down.

When cleaning I took a bucket full of warm soapy water (used dish detergent) and some soft brushes and scrubbed around the gears and deraileurs. I took the chain off and soaked it in mineral spirits and scrubbed it until I got all the old lubricant off of it. Then I scrubbed it down with the dish detergent too. Rinsed everything with water. Then I got the airhose and blew all the water off and from everything.

I suppose one possibility where cables are concerned, the cables are routed down under the bottom bracket and I did scrub all the crap out from there. Could there have been some lubricant on those blocks that guide the cable around the BB that I washed off?

Maybe if I can't fix this then I can justify an upgrade to my wife?!?!? probably not:)

[grizzly adam]

Then I would look back under the BB. Most of the time there is a sleeve that the cable goes through and then is passed through that guide. Maybe the sleeve is worn out and has ripped and is now jammed in the guide. There should be a screw on the guide which will allow you to loosen part of it for install. Maybe just check that things are all good down there??
Do you have SRAM or rapidfire? Or thumbshifters?!

I know this sounds silly - is the wheel in correctly? (I only bring this up cuz a friend of mine had a computer that wasn't working right. I told him he had his wheel in backwards. He swore up and down that it was in right. The next day I asked him if he got it fixed and sheepishly he replied that his wheel was in backwards)

Ya never know!

[zerpy]

Yep, I'll check underneath as soon as I get a chance.

I did check the wheel. That was first thing actually, I've had it wrong before where it wasn't quite seated all the way in the dropouts.

Underneath there isn't any tubes for the cables. It just has a plastic block with some grooves that the cables run in.

Yes, it has thumbshifters. Assuming that is what they are called - triggers for my fingers and thumbs...

[zerpy]

Well, when I rode home from work tonight the problem is getting much worse. But, it is getting really bad on shifting to a smaller gear. Leading me to believe that it is either the cable or something in the hinging for the derailleur. So I'll have to get in there and clean it out some more and make sure nothing is binding or whatever.

thanks
jas

[Kingbozo]

Are you any good at adjusting derailleurs? If not, I would give cleaning one more shot and if that doesn't do the trick you can either A: Bring it to a shop (easiest solution) or B: Try a little adjustment yourself-but do so at your own risk. It is easy to make the problem worse.

There should be a barrel adjuster where the cable goes into the derailleur. Try giving it a half turn counter clockwise and see if the shifting improves at all. If that doesn't do the trick, turn the adjuster back to it's starting point then keep turning until it is a half turn clockwise. Try the shifting again. If you notice an improvement in either direction try continuing the adjustment in that direction.

If you can't get it working, at that point I would probably bring it to a bike mechanic.

If you already know this stuff, I apologize.

Derailleurs can be a pain in the ass.

[zerpy]

I'm hoping to get a chance at that this weekend.

I did originally adjust the derailleurs. When I originally purchased the bike they didn't work worth a crap. Totally screwed up. To shift to a smaller freewheel, you had to shift down past then gently shift up to it and then gently feather the shifter until it hopped into the gear you wanted and to shift to a bigger freewheel you had to click it to the next point then push gently a little more until it hopped over. The stops weren't set either, so it was hopping off the ends of the freewheel on both sides. Bought my wife's bike from the same place a few months later and her derailleurs weren't adjusted either. Front derailleur had the same prob. And when I bought my kids BMX from them last month I think about half the bolts were so loose I could spin them off with my fingers and there was no air in the tires, just enough to seat them. So I downloaded barnetts (sp?) manual and took a shot at it myself. And they worked very good, smooth and fast, until I degreased everything and applied while lightning!:) After what you guys have said I'm suspecting either some crap is interfering with the cable movement or the pivot points on the derailleur aren't working smoothly and the spring isn't strong enough to overcome and pull the derailleur all the way into position.

[Kingbozo]

Man, where are you buying your bikes!?!? Another possibility is that the cable slipped or stretched. The gunk may have been keeping tension on the cable. Who knows. Good luck

[grizzly adam]

Shift into the smallest cog and then feel the cable tension on the downtube of the bike (under your waterbottles). It should be snug. If it's slack and just kinda hangin' there, you need to loosen the bolt where the cable attaches to the der. and pull the cable tighter.

When the der is in the smallest cog, it is in it's "start" position. When you feed the cable to it, it should be snug so as to pull it up the gears. If the cable is too loose, you will be shifting and just pulling the slack in the cable.

I dunno - just another thought.

maybe check to make sure the chain is fed through the der properly?? I've missed a jockey wheel before....

[GearDaddy]

Sounds like sticky cables to me. Down shift on the rear derailleur and don't let the rear wheel turn. This should give you some slack in the cable. Now you can pull the various sections of cable housings out of their cable stops and run them up and down the cable. If you feel some stickiness when moving the cable housing sections, then you've found where some dirt and grime are getting in the way. Sometimes just running the cable housings back and forth does the trick. But you might want to lube the cable itself, or you may need to replace the cable or housing sections.

[manitouman84]

Couple things. Did you brush the crap out of your derailluer when you cleaned it, because there are factory greases in there that you might have flushed out. When I clean my derailluer im careful not to use too much, if any degreaser on it. Maybe you might want to take the derailleur off and inspect it and take some time to relube joints and hard to get spots, also check if the derailluer hanger is bent. Other than that I would just say dont expect too much, it is alivio... but if it worked fine before that sucks that its crapping out now. Last thing is check all the housing routing, and definately check cable tension in the smallest cog, shouldnt be slack. If none of that appears wrong, which sounds to be the case, try new cables and housing and running shorter housing lengths, or just use a spokey doke on the current housing to get any trapped gunk out, and use some teflon lubricant on the cable.

Good Luck

[KleinCrazy]

Never forget the Derailer Hanger adjustment screw.

This little adjustment can make a big difference on how smoothly your bike will shift.

Personal Experience on this one.

[zerpy]

Yes! I scrubbed the living crap out of everything!

I did squirt some while lightning into those joints, but is that too tight for white lightning to get into?

[manitouman84]

Well I cant say that was the best thing to do, but I doubt it would have ruined your derailluer. The white lightning probably worked its way into the joints, its just always possible to mess things up when your scrubbing at seals that came with factory greases and what not, this presents more of a problem to the bushings in the pulleys in the hanger rather than the rest of the derailluer. How old are your cables and housing?

[zerpy]

I bought the bike in feb, it's all original.

[manitouman84]

Okay it should be fine then. I would remove the cable from the housing and inspect the housing to make sure that there isnt anything stuck in them that would cause the cable to drag. Apply some white lightning or teflon to the cables and re-run it through the housing. At this point if shifting still sucks the bike shop is a good last resort. That I guess would be my last suggestion. If the bike shop you bought it from has some sort of minor tune ups warranty for the summer you might get them to do it for free, or you can just act dumb, complain to them, and get them to do it that way.

Good Luck

[zerpy]

Hey I got it fixed. Been too hectic so I didn't have time to work on it until this afternoon.

Tried the cable routing - everything good and the lube. Finally downloaded Barnetts manual (not sure if I spelled that right). They have a great step by step section on adjusting the derailleur. So I went through a complete adjustment and it is working great now.

What I think happened, is when I was scrubbing the living daylights out of everything I must have screwed up the cable tension. Although, there was a lot of adjustment needed for virtually all parts of the process so I suppose it will do good otherwise as well. Actually shifts almost immediately now, much better than it ever did and quieter. The chain was rubbing on some of the cogs before.

Thanks for all the advice!
jas