Chequamegon

[gopherhockey]

edited due to subject change...

[Trevize1138]

Is it just me, or is the Chewamegon (sp?) race in Wis just a road ride on dirt roads?

:crazy:

[SickBoy]

Originally posted by Trevize1138
Is it just me, or is the Chewamegon (sp?) race in Wis just a road ride on dirt roads?

:crazy:

Umm... no, it's a little more than that....

But yes, 90% of the Chequamegon 40 course is wide open - e.g. the 80 foot wide Birkie trail, logging roads, or other 12 foot wide XC ski trails. There is a small portion on narrower (5-7 foot wide) snowmobile trails.

This is all if memory serves me correctly... I -was- slightly brain fried at the end of that race last year.

But as it relates to Murphy... yes, Murphy is the best place to simulate Chequamegon 40 style riding short of actually driving three hours to ride the course. I believe REI even promoted their race series in the late summer last year as being "Chequamegon training" and they gave away one entry to the 40 in a drawing on the last day.

[viv]

One , maybe more, words for you. Birkie Birkie Birkie. Relentless up, bomb(if you can) down, up, bomb down. then hit the Firetower hill. Few ride it and those that do travel at the pace of the walkers. Cant see the top from the bottom. Cadence sucking sand...CSS. But when all is said and done, unless you have a prefered start or are a serious racer boy, It is a bit of a race against yourself. A personal challenge, trying to touch that time you had BC (before children) some 8 years ago. Giving other riders a hard time, crackin jokes, side by side with some dude with a triple clamp fork at 30mph on a sweeping downhill left hander. Having a stranger applaude wheb you take the rocky line and pass a dozen guys. the traditional x-up on the last downhill. 40 miles as hard as you can make it. riding the course solo days before because you didnt get in then watching. its more than a ride its a tradition.... yeah its O.K..... Oh by the way its Chequamegon, and dont get me started on mud.

[Trevize1138]

Looks like I hit a sore spot ... or the proverbial nail on the head :crazy:

Mind you, no offense intended, I just know from what others have said that it's the kind of race where roadies with hardly any off-road experience can come in and totally dominate. This being largely due to the lack of singletrack. Sounds like if you've got the leg power and stamina, that's all you'd really need. You could even bea little conservative on the downhills if you fly up the uphills given that circumstance.

I guess it'd be nice to have a race of a similar distance that at least had *some* singletrack, if not have the majority of it be so.

:)

[viv]

You may be right. The prob with single track, (which I live for along with a few other things) is trying to funnel 1700 riders into it. I typically ride somewhere in the back of the middle and the trail has often taken alot of abuse by the time I hit it. By the way, what fun is conservatism on a downhill? You do that and you'll look like a roady.

[firetruck]

Seely Pre-Fat has nice sections of singletrack. There is a lot of it up there, "viv" and I did about 30 miles of only singletrack last weekend. I'm still smiling ear to ear. But this is a MN MTB web site right?

[viv]

That aint why your smiling.

[SickBoy]

It's not a "roadie" MTB race. It's a MTB race that requires slightly more fitness than bike handling skills to do well.

I get kinda pissed off that people label every MTB race that isn't 100% tight narrow singletrack as a "roadie" race. I know you don't mean it personally, chris, but it happens a lot from more people than just you. I don't know what your fitness is like but I've tended to notice that a lot of the people who complain about the "fricken roadies" are also not in the best shape.... possible connection there.... **shrug**

Believe me, I know plenty of true "roadies" and the vast majority of them (who are the "true" roadies and only do one MTB race a year - Cheq) have trouble at many points along the Chequamegon course.

It may not be a BLAST singletrack epic but it definitely is a mountain bike race. Look at the top 3 riders from last year.. they were mostly all expert/pro MTB'ers. Tilford, Jeff Hall, Doug Swanson, Jed Schneider, Todd McFadden, Jeff Roy.... The only guy who has podiumed in the last couple of years who races more road than MTB is Dewey Dickey and he's not really a true "roadie". Dewey can definitely hold his own in the technical stuff, he took 2nd (to Jeff Hall) at Welch Village last summer. Yeah, Marty Jemison won in '98. I'll give ya that one, he's a roadie. But he also rode the TdF that year, too, so he's definitely on a different level than the domestic pro MTB'ers.

Originally posted by Trevize1138
Looks like I hit a sore spot ... or the proverbial nail on the head :crazy:

Mind you, no offense intended, I just know from what others have said that it's the kind of race where roadies with hardly any off-road experience can come in and totally dominate. This being largely due to the lack of singletrack. Sounds like if you've got the leg power and stamina, that's all you'd really need. You could even bea little conservative on the downhills if you fly up the uphills given that circumstance.

I guess it'd be nice to have a race of a similar distance that at least had *some* singletrack, if not have the majority of it be so.

:)

[s1ngletracker]

Andy, although i am your brother, i will have to disagree with you.

I dont mind the fire road races, but I'd say roadies definitely do much better in them than they do in real MTB races. I'd call Cheq a "roadie" race to a certain degree, from what I have seen and heard of it. (you forget, the guys who take top 3 are also more fit than most roadies and/or they also are very experienced road racers)

Just cause you call someone a roadie doesnt just mean that they are in shape, it means that they are used to riding on smooth roads and not having to manuever their bike much.

But anyway, Chequamegon seems really cool and I still want to do it. just the sheer number of people would make it a cool experience.

you forget sickboy, you once said the same thing about trails that didnt have much technical singletrack (IE Koobi klassic) Before you got into road racing

[Trevize1138]

Woah ... OK, I was just poking a little light-hearted fun at the whole "Roadie vs. MTBer" thing, didn't mean to raise blood pressure levels here. :banana:

Everone look at the dancing banana and be happy!

On a more serious note, I would, too, like to do the Shewammagaen (sp?) some day. It seems like it's what *everybody* has to do just to say you did it that one time. I might find myself pleasantly surprised about how fun it is to ride the Schwannensong (sp?).

Still, I can't help feeling slightly cocky about the idea of doing a 40 mile race on wide roads, especially considering two weeks ago I did 40 miles in one day on the Maah Daah Hey while hauling camping gear. I can't imagine Wisconsin's hills are that much different than the elevation changes from plateaus to valleys in the badlands, either.

I guess it does rub me just a *tad* the wrong way that the big mountain bike race event that everyone wants to do doesn't have a single lick of singletrack in it. Yes, I know, there's the logistics of packing thousands of people into a narrow trail. But, that's easily remedied with a Buck Hill-style mix of singletrack and wide open spaces. Start it out with the first 5 miles being all wide open, then funnel it all into singletrack. That should be enough time to let people space out a bit.

I'd just like to see mountain biking really advance beyond something that makes cross country ski trails useable 365 days a year, and more than a bike race you can train for without knowing how to pump through dips or do polish wheelies over logs. It should be unique and distinctive from road riding, not just a road ride on a dirt road. That's called cyclocross. :)

[viv]

Hey, has anyone tried putting drop bars on their single speed mtb?

[firetruck]

you're a dork.
Can't you see we're talkin' about the "40".
Go take a nap.

[viv]

It was an attempt to juxtapose the essence of road with the soul of the mtb in a way that both mtbers and roadies could appreciate. Pure unadulterated enjoyment of the natural world in which we live. Ettu dork!

[firetruck]

oh

[viv]

1990. . . . . . . . . . . . 2003 ???

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by viv
1990. . . . . . . . . . . . 2003 ???

He's got you there. :)

I do think you will see over the years mountain biking becoming more and more reliant on all-around abilities of cardiovascular, leg strength *and* technical riding. The rider will have to have all three of those to be competitive.

I remember about 10 years ago catching highlighs of some 50 mile MTB race out in the Rockies (don't ask me any more details, simply don't know) and they showed the winner riding a hardtail with a rigid fork! He had one of those stem suspension posts for the handlebars and that was all, the rest of the bike was rigid.

I think mountain biking has already reached the point where many races require a rider to be skilled all-around and not just a pair of legs and races like the Shymalan (sp?) are kind of relics of MTB past where people could win using suspension handlebar stems. :)

[s1ngletracker]

we could work it the other way, and i could go to a crit on a 40 pound downhill bike :banana:

[viv]

Add slicks and a couple lock-outs.

[s1ngletracker]

naw man, that would wreck the whole idea...

[viv]

you'd still look like a fool. At least you'd appear to be trying.

[gopherhockey]

This all got off subject from the initial thread (about Murphy being closed) - so I renamed it, moved it... just in case you are wondering why it appeared here in the racing forum ;)

[SickBoy]

I dare anyone who's done the 40 to call it a "roadie race where you don't have to pay attention to the line you're taking"

You'll wind up with two flats at the bottom of the Smith Lake descent after having gotten bogged down in a waist deep puddle at the halfway point, both because apparently no one has to pay attention to their line because it's a "roadie" race.

Not to mention all the times you'll get bogged down in the middle of a huge sandpit.

No offense Paul but until you ride it, you have no leg to stand on. You've never even been up to the Cheq. area....

[Trevize1138]

You know, I hear roadies often get flats during road races ...

:crazy:

... OK, ok ... I'll stop. :)

[viv]

I would never refer to it as a road race. I've done it 8 or 9 times and I know its a fireroad race.

[The Bull]

You are all missing the point of this event and you are all right about some of your assumptions. It is a road race. It is a mountain bike race. Roadies can ride this with much more ease than Elk River. It does take a bunch of stamina. You are competing against yourself. But you must keep in mind that it is not necessarily a race. It is the "Chequamegon fat tire FESTIVAL." It is about 3,000 mountain bike fans and enthusiast getting together for a weekend. Some that race are very serious and some hang back and take 6 hours. But emphasis is on festival, not race.

To understand why there is little single track used in this race one must keep in mind that the race is held in a National Forest and that there are 2,000 riders (as has been already mentioned). Expanding trail in a national forest is not the easiest thing to do. Negotiating with Dakota County is much easier than the National Forest Service. Then shoving 2,000 riders in single track would be hard.

I personally celebrate the fat tire experience each year and hope they never change the course much from its existing form. This event got me into biking years ago. If it were a technical tight single track course, I am not sure I would have gotten into bike as much as I am now. This course allows the average ride to join in the fun as well as the Tillfords of the world.

Hayward High School graduate class of '88.
:eyeroll:

[viv]

exactly!!! thank-you

[GearDaddy]

I've ridden a lot in the whole CAMBA area - probably ridden Rock Lake at least 50 times. I just did 100 miles of riding up there over Memorial Day Weekend (basically three 30-mile rides over three days). Amazingly, I only saw about 3 other riders the whole time!

I have never ridden the Cheq. Fat Tire 40, although I've done solo rides that covered much of the course. I must say that the Fat Tire 40 has never really appealed to me, as it doesn't really sound like that much fun to do a 3 hour ride with 1000 other people next to you the whole time. Don't get me wrong - I know the Fat Tire 40 is challenging with its constantly rolling hills. But the top riders do complete the race in about 2 1/2 hours (that's something like a 17 MPH average). I think the Cheq. Fat Tire 40 is more about the festival experience of the event than the race itself in the end.

I have done the Cable Area Off-road classic and the Fat Back Boogie a few times, which are run on trails in the Telemark/Namekagon CAMBA trail clusters. These races are more like 50%+ of singletrack with the winner's average speed more like 13 MPH. The Cable Area Off-road classic has seen up to 500 riders, but things usually stretch out nicely on the course so that singletrack gridlock is not too bad. The Fat Back Boogie has usually been cozier with only 150 riders or so. I also hear that the Seeley Hills Classic is a good event, and I was clued into the fact by the Seeley bike shop owner that this year's race will see some new technical singletrack added to the course. All in all I've found these to be really good events - and there ain't no lottery to get into them.

A few years ago I did some racing in the Twin Citiies, and I deliberately chose to do the BLAST races because they had smaller fields and more interesting courses. The MNSCS races were definitely more competitive, but the fields were more crowded and they were on mostly ski area type courses with crushed rock and even paved trail sections. Obviously I'm a believer that MTB racing should go the way of more technical trails, which I think would be more appealing because of the challenge of the course. Othewise, MTB races do kind of end up being nothing but roadie time trials on a dirt track.

[halls]

Fat tire is a very festive race. not real technical,but very fast ,i think there is a mix of riders who do it. there are better places to ride in cable , no doubt. the lottery system is a sham. many people get in based on who they know and are, but hey that's no big deal. try it once if you can. if you have good mtn. bike skills, lungs and legs you'll be in luckand have a good time. it is fast! Hey the past two years the cable classic winner averaged 17mph! to fast for me. how do those guys do it? Couple of years ago i took part in a spring classic race down by Rochester (great fun! what happened to it?) Jeff Hall won the A race (60 miles or so?) on his SAlSA Mountian bike with smooth tires. HE won by a good margin if i remember corrcetly. He was flying. How did he do that ? HE beat guys on really nice cross bikes.(good riders to).
On another note. Cable hopes to add 14 miles of singel track to Rock lake by next year. They are hoping it will be one of the best in the country i was told by folks at a local bike shop. That could really change the Cable Classic and other events as well. I think to win anything off road requires good biking skills . i just wish i had those big lungs and legs!!! (oh yeah and skills to!)

[TrailPatrol]

Not only would it be very hard to send 2500 riders down any given stretch of singletrack (not the mention the environmental impact :shocked: ) but as one of the "band-aid slappers" at the CFTF the potential for accidents scares the begeebees out of me.

Please...

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[halls]

i don't know if we would find it in the fat tire . but maybe cabel classic. you know i thought i was gonna come in at 2:12 in the cable classic. but i think i swallowed some begeebees when i got stuck ankle deep in some mud! Nasty buggers!! always great to see the trail patrol at these events. thanks!

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by GearDaddy
A few years ago I did some racing in the Twin Citiies, and I deliberately chose to do the BLAST races because they had smaller fields and more interesting courses. The MNSCS races were definitely more competitive, but the fields were more crowded and they were on mostly ski area type courses with crushed rock and even paved trail sections. Obviously I'm a believer that MTB racing should go the way of more technical trails, which I think would be more appealing because of the challenge of the course. Othewise, MTB races do kind of end up being nothing but roadie time trials on a dirt track.

Here here!

:)

I think that's really what I've been trying to say. Road racing has its place, and I think for a while in the beginning mountain bike racing was seen as a novelty but not a serious sport. I think a lot of that attitude had to do with mountain bike races being at first predominantly like you said: raodie time trials on a dirt track.

[SickBoy]

I think most of you need to do a real road race and see what one is really like before saying that "most of the races in MN are road races on a dirt track".....

[stoneage]

A couple of years ago my bud, Ezra Taylor, came in top 15 at Sha-Wah-Mee riding a Brew rigid single. He was pushing something like a 42/14. he has also been top 50 the last two years, with a flat one year and two flats last year. So much for modern gear. Legs and lungs are what you need in northern WI.

[SickBoy]

Originally posted by stoneage
Legs and lungs are what you need in northern WI.

My point exactly. I think it just so happens that a lot of people who ride and race on the road have a better fitness level than people who don't and the people who don't assume that if they don't do well in a race, it's because the course wasn't "technical enough" or that it was a "roadie course".