Trail Conditions in Detail - Lebanon Hills

[gopherhockey]

WARNING. If you are reading this, you are reading a VERY old message. You need to go to the latest posts to get the most accurate info on trail conditions. Watch the post times closely... I don't want anyone thinking the trail is open or closed because they are reading old information.


Lebanon is quite wet today at 1pm, Friday the 23. I suspect the trail never really did dry up after the last rain, and this one made it even worse. Standing water/mudd in many parts of the beginner loop. The intermediate loop is ok, but very wet in the corners (SLOW DOWN - do not slide out and wreck the trails) - The expert loop should be closed for a day or two if we had the means... lots of standing water, riders sliding off the trails around corners. This will take some repair work.

I don't know who the morons were that rode at Lebanon last night after the rain.. I hope it was non of you guys :p

Please - if you can be patient one more day, wait until tomorrow to ride here. Chances are most other trails are in the same shape... its a long weekend, give the trails a day and give your bike a break.

[gopherhockey]

I spent about 4 hours working on the expert loop getting drainage to happen again - things are decent now. By tomorrow it should be ok. (it was drying up before my eyes)

[viv]

Thanks for the work John. I'm headin out there from 9:30 -12ish today. I'll stay off and post an update if its too wet. Hey, my wife was thinkin about letting me buy a Blur. Any thoughts? Anybody want a beautiful Super V with XTR?

[gopherhockey]

I'll probably be out at Leb this afternoon... wonder if lots of people are riding this weekend or are busy doing other things...

Anyway, please do post a condition update if you have one - I'm hoping the trails improved overnight.

Planning on buying a blur - best thing I could say is not to show your wife the pricetag ;) Be sure to get the new XTR on the blur as well - you won't regret it.

[viv]

Oops my update came a bit late. The trail was in great shape. Probably a dozen people out there at 9 am. Did about 18 miles (4 laps and 2 on the warm-up loop, in case you were tryin to do the math) then hit Penn cycle to replace my fried Avid single digits, its always something. I touched the new XTR lever shifters, Wow! smooth hope they are durable and can grind the mud like Sram. They are awfully pretty. Maybe too much so... gotta go my dm cat just did a B drag across the ruggg...ugh

[scott]

Is there a certain time in the morning that Lebannon opens, I drove past there at 7 and there were chains up. When does it open up at?

Scott

[gopherhockey]

8am to 10pm are the mountain bike hours, although I've seen the chains gone both before and after 8am. If they are up you can usually park just down the street or over on the Galaxy side (if you aren't freaked out by starting your ride 1/2 way in).

Too bad there are hours at all - would be fun to do a nice empty-lot early morning ride, or even a midnight cruise with the lights.

[gopherhockey]

Things are now getting dry at Lebanon. In fact today the wind was kicking up dust really bad, and there were things falling from the trees starting to cover the trails a little (and if you were unlucky, getting into your throat.. <cough cough>)

[TrailDale]

Yogi???
You showed your wife the price tag on your Blur??

Young man. We need to have a talk.

There's this thing called "CASH". Old people (that are still married) still use it, and for good reason. It can be accumulated, and then spent, with nothing to trace your little XTR covered tracks. For your little internet buying spree, there's these strange things called "Money Orders" and "Cashier's Checks" that turn simple ordinary (well hidden) currency, into a new bike!

Any Boy can buy a Blur. It takes a Man to convince the significant other that a Blur only cost a little more than those bikes in the Target ad, but of course it was worth the little bit extra. It's a safety issue. Those dime-store bikes are dangerous! And what's a few more dollars when the safety of a loved one (that would be you) is in question???

You have so much to learn . . . :eyeroll:

[gopherhockey]

Dang.. you are so very right - I do have much to learn!

This kind of info could save a guy a lot of serious couch time...



:p

[viv]

Guys, Guys, I didnt tell how much it REALLY costs. She doesn't have to know theres a difference between frame and complete bike. Anyway I sat on one and the bars are too high.

[gopherhockey]

Raise the seat up, the bars will magically be lower ;)

(or find a better sized frame that fits...)

[viv]

Surely that can't work.

[gopherhockey]

We're a bit off topic now ;)

Lebanon was still in great condition last night - even dry in spots. Just the expert loop appeared to be damp in low spots, but the ground was still solid. I think the trenches I dug out there last week will help next time we get some rain so we don't have standing water on the trail again.

The xx loop is coming alone nicely - Dakota and IMBA will be walking the trail sometime this week to give their comments and maybe even approval to open it soon - stay tuned... as always, please stay off until then - especially now that we'll be having Dakota out there - it would look bad for us all if poachers were there during the walk-through.

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
We're a bit off topic now ;)

Lebanon was still in great condition last night - even dry in spots. Just the expert loop appeared to be damp in low spots, but the ground was still solid. I think the trenches I dug out there last week will help next time we get some rain so we don't have standing water on the trail again.

The xx loop is coming alone nicely - Dakota and IMBA will be walking the trail sometime this week to give their comments and maybe even approval to open it soon - stay tuned... as always, please stay off until then - especially now that we'll be having Dakota out there - it would look bad for us all if poachers were there during the walk-through.

Yeah...rode it tonight for the first time in over a week....all I can say about the trenches is wow and thankyou....there were quite a few and it looks it'll do the trick...it must have taken you quite a while to make all of them...thanks!

[Hathor]

No, let us just get back to the other issue. It's really fun watching you guys help John dig himself an even deeper hole. You better be careful, Dale, or suddenly John won't be able to come out and play anymore! Just kidding. I figure when it is time for my next big purchase, he doesn't have much to say about it! We ladies have our own methods of getting stuff too.

[socrates]

Originally posted by Hathor
No, let us just get back to the other issue. It's really fun watching you guys help John dig himself an even deeper hole. You better be careful, Dale, or suddenly John won't be able to come out and play anymore! Just kidding. I figure when it is time for my next big purchase, he doesn't have much to say about it! We ladies have our own methods of getting stuff too.

Hey....who let a wife in here?!?!?!?!?! I thought we had rules against these type of things :confused: there are reasons I've never told my wife about this web site (but then I guess I can't complain...she was the one who talked me into buying my Klien :banana:

And yes Liz...we know you wive's have methods too :banana: :cool:

[gopherhockey]

There ARE apparently drawbacks to having your significant other into mountain biking (and the Internet)



:(


:D

[Tim Wegner]

John
You are absolutely right about the advantages. Except the advantage is to your friends---we get to watch Liz kick your butt on the trails and then turn to you and say "but honey that wasn't soo hard to ride was it?"
:p

[gopherhockey]

Wet wet wet wet... the trail will be super wet. Especially the XX Loop, which has little riding on it. Even those given "special" trail volunteer permission, it would be good to stay off for a while.

Unfortunately we won't be opening the XX loop on Saturday like we thought.

(remember last year when we opened up the bypass around curley and mo? It was a mud fest for the entire next week)

Sorry... stay tuned for the next available opening date. Perhaps Tuesday if things were to stay dry.... maybe we'll have a short trail work session then a group ride to open up the trail... Hmm....

[gopherhockey]

Lots of bikers out there this morning. Doesn't look like a TON of mud on them, so maybe the trail isn't too bad... however, I still tend to say give it a day but thats just me.

The XX loop was definitely mushy and not open. We'll wait until it dries out and we have 3-4 dry days ahead to be sure we don't get a quick rain before riders pack it in. Stay tuned for opening information - we probably won't have a big event or anything since our window of opportunity kind of passed, and many of my fellow trail bosses are off doing other trail projects this week..

We did build a new log ride today as the last IMBA Advanced Trail School event. It is nice - you have to hop up on it, then drop off the end which sticks up a few feet. The top is maybe 8" wide.

We hope to continue adding nicely built obsticles to this trail as time permits and as volunteers show up to help out.

Thanks everyone who helped today with the log ride.

[socrates]

Trail is still dry today...after all that rain yesterday all I can say is Thanks for the drainage you drug gopherhockey

[gopherhockey]

;) Took about 6 hours that afternoon, but I'm glad its helping out. The expert loop can sure get wet compared to most of the other trails simply because a lot of it is on ground that doesn't drain well.

The XX appears to be pretty wet still, I've been digging around back there all weekend getting it fine tuned for the grand opening... whenever that will be.

Even caught a few poachers heading onto the trail - that always feels good hehe...

Hopefully this week sometime! Maybe Tuesday if the weather holds.

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Even caught a few poachers heading onto the trail - that always feels good hehe...

Is that why I saw a few guys strung up in a tree....hope you smacked them silly

[gopherhockey]

Yea, I suppose I should go cut them down this afternoon... ;)

I didn't get a chance to ride Lebanon this weekend, can anyone update the trail condition report on the trail conditions page? I assume it must still be tacky at least?

Everyone is so quiet lately..

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
I didn't get a chance to ride Lebanon this weekend, can anyone update the trail condition report on the trail conditions page? I assume it must still be tacky at least?

Everyone is so quiet lately..

Be glad too...yes it was tacky but really not bad (atleast for what I was expecting)

[gopherhockey]

Finally got in a few laps tonight before this weather hits (dang weather!)

The weekend morons were out again it appears. This time they cleared out a path around the left of the rock pile/garden in the expert loop. (geesh, no skills or what??)

They also cleared out the brush on that last downhill where we did the strange re-route around the right side. We know the re-route stinks, but still - what a pain to keep having to pull that brush back into place. Maybe we ought to go in there and down a few trees or something to block the path. (someone in the parking lot suggested razor wire?? DOH! - I didn't say that... )

I was going to feel all down and upset about this, but then I spoke to many of you in the parking lot and was reminded why I love doing trailwork... everyone I saw out tonight was having a super time on the trails and all were supportive.

I still went back and got my work gear on and put a few huge rocks to the left of the rock garden (look for em' - see what one man and a good rock bar can do hehe) While working there I saw many more riders enjoying their time on the trails.

I'm not going to let one or two morons out there that don't have the skills to ride bother me so much... ;)

[socrates]

You know I didn't see you until I was driving past you otherwise I would have said hi...I did notice the brush gone from the rock garden at the top of the climb in the X loop but someone had put it back (at least I thougt it was back) before your arrival tonight........

Trail seemed dryer except on the X loop...that actually seemed wetter today, there wasn't any water standing yesterday and today that 2nd log with the big dugout actually had about a cup of water standing in the dugout...I swear that wasn't there yesterday

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by socrates
I did notice the brush gone from the rock garden at the top of the climb in the X loop but someone had put it back (at least I thougt it was back) before your arrival tonight........


That actually was me - we must have been on the trail about the same time just at opposite ends ;)

You know riding the X loop today I was thinking after a good day of drying things must have been really wet this weekend.. but it sounds like it really wasn't that way. It didn't look like much damage happened to the trails since the last rain, although it does look like roots & rocks are becoming more exposed all the time.

Amazing, considering the traffic that place gets...

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Tom S.
Too bad these morons can't show up when it's actually Tuesday the Trail work day.:mad:

Can you imagine.... 14 hard working trail volunteers witness biker cutting/poaching trail. Film at 11... ;)

[viv]

Unbelievable,

[isoemo]

Any final word for an opening date on the XX loop?
Is it already open?

-anxious j

[gopherhockey]

Hmm... anyone want to bet on whether it rains on Thursday? Looks like 30% chance all day starting tonight, but then drying up the rest of the week/weekend.

Any weather people out there?

It isn't open yet, but as soon as this rain threat is over, you will see the orange fence gone.. then we're going to want to have as much traffic out there as possible to pack things down nice.

[gopherhockey]

Many have probably noticed that *somone* removed the log on one of the most fun little jump/drops in the very first section of singletrack (Intermediate) trail.

Bummer! That is a favorite of many people...

But don't worry - we'll put it back. We just need to get in there and put it in so that it doesn't just fall out again.

As always, if you see someone messing with the trail and it isn't part of the regular Tuesday night trail crew - look for a MORC trail care crew shirt, or ask them if they are authorized to be "fixing" on the trail. If they are not, politely tell them to leave things alone... or smack them upside the head - whichever you prefer.

There have been MANY cases of moved logs, trail re-routes etc. lately at Lebanon. It is starting to concern me. :mad:

[gopherhockey]

I'll work on updating the Lebanon Hills trail review with more pictures and info.

Here is the latest trail map which is also located there (in larger format for printing)

http://www.morcmtb.org/trailreviews/metro/images/lebanon/lebmap4_small.jpg

BTW: If anyone has the chance to get out there and take pictures, please post them here - I could use some pictures from other people... especially if your cameras work better than mine ;)

[JayT]

John,

What type of equipment & software are you using to do your various maps & profiles?

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by JayT
John,

What type of equipment & software are you using to do your various maps & profiles?

Good question. Getting decent maps has been difficult. I did some GPS work at Lebanon late last fall when the leafs were all off the trees, then cut & pasted the GPS data onto a map (in this case) that I got from Mapquest.

The other one I did that has more of the topo lines was about the same thing, but I pasted it onto a real detailed topo map that Dakota County had.

The GPS software I have used does not seem to provide the level of detail capable of creating a larger map like this.

I think Memorial Park still has the best map of any trail system. Battle Creek and Elk River have the best trailhead maps. Dakota County has some pretty bad maps - but mostly because the park is so large, and our little 80 acres ends up being a very small undetailed part of a much larger map.

[gopherhockey]

Many of you may have noticed some cones and "trail crew working" kind of signs out at Leb the last few days.

Dakota is preparing to haul a ton of dirt up on Larry, Curley & Mo (or Dumb, Dumber, and Dumberer if you prefer) to re-claim and CLOSE those hills once and for all.

Please be aware there may be large trucks driving around back there...

Boy are the hikers going to be P'd off at this.. of course when have they ever paid attention to a trail closed sign before... (there is one hiker back there that seems to get off on removing all the caution tape and trail signs - if you guys ever catch them, we'll use the person to armor the bottom of Jan's rock.. hehe)

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by gopherhockey

(there is one hiker back there that seems to get off on removing all the caution tape and trail signs - if you guys ever catch them, we'll use the person to armor the bottom of Jan's rock.. hehe)

Ooh, that'd be cool! In addition to rock gardens, we could have skull gardens and bone yards made up of hikers who just couldn't follow the rules! :etard:

[gopherhockey]

Someone apparently took it upon themselves to remove the Exit sign posted in the beginner loop and stick it in the entrance side... this has caused confusion and people are riding the beginner (warm-up) loop the wrong way...

I don't know, I think there is someone out there doing this just to screw around and have some fun with us. Thats ok, let them - if they have no life and feel the need to do these types of things to get their rocks off thats just too sad for them..

We'll catch them eventually... then the fun will begin! ;)

Idiots...

[gopherhockey]

Rain last night, more rain on the way. Now is a good time to give Lebanon a break and ride elsewhere, or take your bike in for that summer tune-up.

We'll monitor the condition of the XX loop - if the rain continues and things appear to be muddy we'll close it temporarily, but I think things were hardened up pretty good the last few weeks so I doubt that will be necessary.

I'm just concerned how things like the bridges are going to hold up with riders going over it on muddy tires etc. Guess we'll see.

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Rain last night, more rain on the way. Now is a good time to give Lebanon a break and ride elsewhere, or take your bike in for that summer tune-up.

We'll monitor the condition of the XX loop - if the rain continues and things appear to be muddy we'll close it temporarily, but I think things were hardened up pretty good the last few weeks so I doubt that will be necessary.

I'm just concerned how things like the bridges are going to hold up with riders going over it on muddy tires etc. Guess we'll see.

It's suppose to rain every day through Thursday

[EmL34]

I noticed that several of the rocks are missing from the 'catwalk' section. Was this a MORC move, or renegade?

If it was a MORC move, good job. If not, Knock it off, just because you're too lame to clean something doesn't mean it should be changed.

[gopherhockey]

You mean from the tight uphill climb where you have to weave in between rocks? Someone removed some of those?

[EmL34]

Yes, someone removed 2-3 large rocks from the right side of the first choke point. I remember it because I occasionally struck my pedal there.

EmL

[socrates]

Originally posted by EmL34
Yes, someone removed 2-3 large rocks from the right side of the first choke point. I remember it because I occasionally struck my pedal there.

EmL


From the right side??? Would have though if someone was going to take it upon theirself to make it easier they would have done the left side....I'm going to assume by John's question it wasn't a MORC change and unfortunately I doubt whoever it was isn't on these forums or would even take the time to read the signs MORC has up saying DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by EmL34
Yes, someone removed 2-3 large rocks from the right side of the first choke point. I remember it because I occasionally struck my pedal there.

EmL

There are some real a$$hole riders out there to be sure. We'll just have to fix it by digging in larger rocks I guess. If they want to move those, they can go ahead and do it - but it will take them a while. Unfortunately for everyone when someone tries to make the trail easier, we usually fix it by making it even more difficult...

It seems most the damage takes place on the weekends. Perhaps we need to stake out the trail on heavy traffic days... I'd love to catch JUST ONE of these idiots.

A few smaller rocks have come loose due to pedal hits - that is to be expected and is our mistake to correct. No rock should be that easy to pull out. However - this sounds like a bunch of riders with a lack of talent needing to make things easier on themselves. I guess they just aren't up to the challenge that the rest of us are. Wimps.... I'd say even my wife could ride those rock ledges, but she'd probably ride them into the ground no matter where on the trail. (not at all taking away from her talent..)

Probably the same people who remove rocks and ride around log piles. Hmmm... why exactly are they on expert level trails?

I used to get really mad - now I just have to laugh at these people.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[manual63]

I don't like the double X Loop anymore....it's got too many rocks. Can you remove some of those rocks for me, I am having a hard time doing them. While you are at it, can you get rid of that log drop, the log piles, and I keep endowing off that stupid table top. I want a flatter more ridable trail guys.......:fool:

[Kingbozo]

Originally posted by manual63
I don't like the double X Loop anymore....it's got too many rocks. Can you remove some of those rocks for me, I am having a hard time doing them. While you are at it, can you get rid of that log drop, the log piles, and I keep endowing off that stupid table top. I want a flatter more ridable trail guys.......:fool:

Maybe you could add some kind of tow rope system to assist on the hills.

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
It seems most the damage takes place on the weekends. Perhaps we need to stake out the trail on heavy traffic days... I'd love to catch JUST ONE of these idiots.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Understood John....I'll make sure I always have a couple of rocks in my bag to throw at the next asXXole I see out there...should do the trick cause I bet they aren't wearing a helmet either :etard:

Do me a favor though guys....just keep yelling "I'm not digging up rocks" as you ride so I don't accidentally belt ya with one (Especially you Shad since you don't wear a helmet)

[gopherhockey]

BTW: I posted earlier that Lebanon was wet - but I'm guessing after this afternoon it is ridable. Who knows how long though, looks like rain is on the way again. (maybe it will go north?)

We could use some rain I guess... but... maybe hold off until after trail work tomorrow.

Sorry about the false alarm about mudd at Lebanon... I'm guessing at this time things are mostly ok.

Maybe we need to install a webcam, remote web weather data on various parts of each trail etc. We could get instant updated weather, rain data, and watch for idiots modifying the trail ;)

[manual63]

Originally posted by socrates
(Especially you Shad since you don't wear a helmet)

I am going to wear an orange hunting vest from now on.......

[EmL34]

As long as it was brought up, what would it cost to put up some remote cams? Can you hook it up to a battery that is motion activated?

The other day I sat out of site and took pictures of folks riding the log ramp...it was hilarious (only after verifying they weren't hurt). I can see my self checking up on this from time to time if it were on the web.

[The Bull]

Something does not seem right about taking pictures while hiding?

[EmL34]

I had my pants on, which is more than I can say for those people at Wirth!

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by The Bull
Something does not seem right about taking pictures while hiding?

When I take pics and I'm not hiding, I tend to distract guys when they are doing their "thing" - maybe hiding isn't so bad....

Just remember not to do anything crazy out there that could get you put on the Internet (outside this site, that is)

And hey - if someone is out taking pics, how come' I don't see any posted here? ;)

BTW: The XX loop is pretty wet. Walked it earlier this afternoon scoping out the situation - the first rocky climb is really muddy. Many sections are pretty packed in - but there are lots of low spots and turns that guys are washing out. At least it shows us where we need to do some work eventually... but dang guys, does everyone have to ride 24/7 regardless of the rain? I just don't get it... :sick:

[EmL34]

Actually, I was going to ask about posting them. I have a regular camera, and I forgot to get the digital output...any advice for scanning them in (IE., Kinko's)?

[Kingbozo]

Some developing places offer to give you a CD of your pics in addition to your prints for a few extra bucks.

[Jake]

I walked XX last night (Wed) and cleared some downed trees and branches. There had been 5 or 6 riders on the trail. It was in surprisingly good condition, considering we'd had 3 - 4 inches of rain in the last 24 hours.

It always surprises me that people will come out right after or during a rain to ride. They obviously don't show up to fix their damage on Tuesdays, but I guess that's part of our job as volunteers....I just hate to assign a crew to damage repair when they could be improving the new trail.

Dan, one of the Penn Cycle riders, did an evaluation lap for me and said the Expert loop was really greasy and some mud holes.

Hopefully, people will be considerate of the trail and give it a day or so to dry out. Even one day makes a huge difference at Lebanon.

Don't ride wet.

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Jake

Hopefully, people will be considerate of the trail and give it a day or so to dry out. Even one day makes a huge difference at Lebanon.

Don't ride wet.

This is one of those key days too... the sun is out, its not 90 degrees & humid... one starts to think that this evening would be a great time to ride.

And it might - however, it would also be a good evening to let the trails dry out so that Friday's ride is even better.

We did get a little bit more rain last night around 8pm...

I'm glad to hear the trails aren't in too bad of shape. Hopefully they will be back to good condition by the weekend.

[gopherhockey]

Anyone ride the trails tonight? How are they? Dry enough for a morning ride? (as long as it doesn't rain tonight...)

[Crash]

not sure about the trails, but the road was dry:D

[viv]

I'm hopeing to hit Leb this afternoon (friday) any ideas as to the condition? I rode over @ Brownie and Wirth last night and aside from the downed trees and obvious water holes i was in descent shape. No tire tracks were made. I know this area isnt about this place but what is.

[gopherhockey]

Rode Leb today - mostly dry, just a few very very small wet spots in the expert loop. XX is dry. Get out and ride before it rains again!

[gopherhockey]

Was out walking around at Leb and it started raining. The trail got wet pretty quickly. It was still raining when I left, and looks like it will keep on raining until... Christmas.

F#)$(* rain...

[EmL34]

I was out riding when it started raining....did get a chance to see/ride the latest additions - they're great.

[socrates]

Originally posted by EmL34
I was out riding when it started raining....did get a chance to see/ride the latest additions - they're great.

I was out there this morning...it was still tackey in a few places (with a small puddle or two)....glad I went early today :cool:

[gopherhockey]

I was surprised at how wet it got after just .25" of rain this afternoon. Bikes were leaving knobby tire marks in the xx loop, and the intermediate had water standing on it.

I sometimes wonder if a heavy hard rain just washes loose dirt off the trails, but the slower rain puddles up more and soaks right in mixing with some of the topsoil.

Anyway, those that like a little mud can probably ride just fine without doing any major damage - but I know I'll be cancelling my Sunday morning ride to wait for things to dry up a bit more.

Those that were coming past me tonight were caked with dirt. I asked them how the trail was.. "oh, just fine!" - but I couldn't tell what color their bikes were. Well... I guess there are those that like that kinda thing. :eyeroll:

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Those that were coming past me tonight were caked with dirt. I asked them how the trail was.. "oh, just fine!" - but I couldn't tell what color their bikes were. Well... I guess there are those that like that kinda thing. :eyeroll:

Yeah I was at River Bottoms yesterday and observed the same thing...trail took quite a bit of damage as a result :mad:

[gopherhockey]

I rode Lebanon this morning - things are tacky, but drying up. THere are still wet spots - we could sure use a good dry week (hehe, I know thats wishful thinking).

There was slight damage to the trail from riders sliding off in spots, but not too bad. If we continue to get wet weather we're going to start seeing damage and/or have to start closing trails.

Lets hope things dry out a bit before the next rain.

[Trevize1138]

Looks promising so far!

http://www.weather.com/weather/local/55408?lswe=55408&lwsa=WeatherLocalUndeclared

[gopherhockey]

Trail conditions are really great right now. The only real wet spot is during the exit out of the park - and we don't need to fix that one since someday we won't even go there with the trail.

I hope everyone likes the new log "steps" I put in. There are a couple series of 3 going up a hill just past the 2nd bridge.

Trail damage was minimul last weekend. Someone (probably someone incapable of riding the loop) pulled down the "this trail brought to you by MORC" sign at the beginning of the XX, but then someone put it back up for us.

A few rocks are always working themselves loose. The trail has become easier since we opened due to rocks being moved/removed/kicked loose. We'll fix that in time though ;)

[EmL34]

I rode this afternoon and there were a couple of damaged spots. One in particular is on the Original X after the Rock garden sharp turn and then the junior rock garden. This one is causing a minor trail reroute and probably should be addressed. If I'm in town on Tuesday, I'm up for it.

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by EmL34
I rode this afternoon and there were a couple of damaged spots. One in particular is on the Original X after the Rock garden sharp turn and then the junior rock garden. This one is causing a minor trail reroute and probably should be addressed. If I'm in town on Tuesday, I'm up for it.

Thanks for the update! We'll have to look for this and fix for sure.

Sounds like there are people willing to ride a trail when it is marginal conditions, yet don't have the "you know whats" to ride through the mud spots.

Save the bike, destroy the trail... gotta love mountain bikers sometimes...

:eyeroll:

[gopherhockey]

F#$)* rain.

Another 1"+ rain tonight.

I hope people think a little before doing their 4th of July ride. Most trails were already marginal before this evenings rain.

I hate this time of year. Proabably have to go on puddle control again today.

:mad:

[funky-funky-chicken]

F#$)* rain.

I was out to Lebanon hills EARLY this morning. I was HOPING that it did not rain that much. (By my house in Roseville, it was dry under the trees.) The trails were soaked...Too bad :mad:

I turned around and went home... I would hope that others would give the trails a chance to dry out too... Maybe Sunday early am????

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by funky-funky-chicken

I turned around and went home... I would hope that others would give the trails a chance to dry out too... Maybe Sunday early am????

3 bananas for the chicken for turning around and going home...

:banana: :banana: :banana:

If there is time I'm going to go on puddle control today - maybe we can get the trail to shape up for a Sunday ride. Here's hoping it doesn't rain again for a while.

:sick:

[gopherhockey]

I went out and did some mud control today. Overall the trails are still standing up pretty well, but the expert loop has water problems that I could not solve using simple trail tools. We're just going to have to live with some amount of mud in those areas until we can get some real fixes done.

Beware of the first part of the expert loop - ride it slow. The second half starts to shape up better, but the first area with all the logs has some nasty mud in it.

The XX seems to be holding up well. Guess thats what you get when you build a trial right from the very start.

[ice ice baby]

The ground on the XX loop is pretty saturated and there are quite a few mud spots where I took some nasty spills. The logs a pretty slick and the rock in the XX is slippery!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by ice ice baby
The ground on the XX loop is pretty saturated and there are quite a few mud spots where I took some nasty spills. The logs a pretty slick and the rock in the XX is slippery!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I believe it is actually the X loop that is slippery - it had lots of standing water and mud today. The XX was in better shape, but is not yet as solid as the rest of the trails so it takes much abuse when people ride it wet.

I guess you get whats comin' to ya when riding trails in those conditions. (I guess some actually like riding wet trails, go figure..)

We'll have to work on some of the spots in the X loop - some of them are too far beyond getting to drain any longer due to constant abuse and scraping out wet mud. The entire trail needs to be built up in areas.

[gopherhockey]

There were lots of riders out this morning - I think the trail is drying up well aside from a few wet spots in the original X loop near all the log piles. (that area just doesn't drain real well)

Lets hope the rain stays away now for a while... of course every time I say this we get another 1" or more of rain so maybe I ought to just keep quiet and let Ma Nature do her thing and be kind to us.

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
There were lots of riders out this morning - I think the trail is drying up well aside from a few wet spots in the original X loop near all the log piles. (that area just doesn't drain real well)

Lets hope the rain stays away now for a while... of course every time I say this we get another 1" or more of rain so maybe I ought to just keep quiet and let Ma Nature do her thing and be kind to us.

I was going to stop by and say hi but you looked like you were in the middle of a serious discussion.....

but as far as the trails go...

The trail are tacky in places but overall in good shape (with a puddle or two here or there)....ok to ride if you smart enough to avoid the areas that need avoiding!

[BrightYellow]

Anybody know what the trail is like today? Did Eagan get much rain last night? Anyone want to update the trail conditions page, if they have info... thanks!

-D

[gopherhockey]

I haven't ridden, but I didn't notice too much rain. Shows around .02" I think. Should be ok, but then again sometimes just a small amount can wet things down as much as a heavy 1" rain can.

I'm interested as well. If anyone has an update, please post.

[gopherhockey]

Report from today was that its a bit more sticky out there after a recent rain. Not much fell, but enough to bring out the puddles again in the X loop and make things a little slick. Should dry up fairly quickly I'd think.

I was also told that humidy is really high and bugs are going crazy this afternoon even though its only 70 degrees out.

[gopherhockey]

I rode this morning and things were in great condition - just slightly damp in spots.

However, I just got a call from Jan who sat through a huge downpour at Lebanon.

Yes.. its wet again out there.

If you are thinking of riding tonight, might want to find a dry trail in town - I don't think the rain hit everywhere in the metro.

Bummer.

[Rockhoppa]

I also went to lebanon today luckily I was just about done biking home when it started to pour!

[ice ice baby]

The trail is in GREAT condition after the slight rain we have had lately. :banana: GET OUT AND RIDE!:banana:

[gopherhockey]

Glad I rode this morning - looks like we're about to get dumped on... AGAIN.

Geesh. The trail doesn't even get a chance to completely dry these days. One can see the moisture it is holding when you ride... although mostly dry, it is rather soft.

Overall trail damage has been at a real minimum the last few weeks though. Thank you to everyone that has been watching trail conditions etc.

There is one area I'd like to point out though. Up at the highest point at Lebanon - after the rock garden in the X loop and those quick S-turns. When you are leaving that area and starting your drop down hill you can see a huge tire mark left by someone who was on the trail (and wandered just slightly off - going too fast most likely) when it was too wet. This track has hardened and will now start to direct rain down the trail instead of off. This is a great example of how just one rider can do some nasty damage to the trails if we don't get out and fix it. (in case anyone has ever been curious for proof.. )

;)

[Kingbozo]

Jeez John-when do you work?

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Kingbozo
Jeez John-when do you work?

I try and fit work between riding and trail work... eventually I figure I'll no longer be able to get into the building where I work, in which case I won't have to worry about it and can just work on trails and ride all day.... ;)

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
There is one area I'd like to point out though. Up at the highest point at Lebanon - after the rock garden in the X loop and those quick S-turns. When you are leaving that area and starting your drop down hill you can see a huge tire mark left by someone who was on the trail (and wandered just slightly off - going too fast most likely) when it was too wet. This track has hardened and will now start to direct rain down the trail instead of off. This is a great example of how just one rider can do some nasty damage to the trails if we don't get out and fix it. (in case anyone has ever been curious for proof.. )

;)

Yeah I noticed that Saturday....I also noticed alot of other examples like that on the Western part of River Bottoms on Sunday but surprisingly the Eastern part was dryer and had less damage (but more fallen trees/limbs on it)

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Originally posted by Kingbozo
Jeez John-when do you work?

I try and fit work between riding and trail work... eventually I figure I'll no longer be able to get into the building where I work, in which case I won't have to worry about it and can just work on trails and ride all day.... ;) Is that "I'm going to the data center" excuse still working? Aren't you afraid they'll call the data center and start to wonder when no one there knows who you are or what you look like? :eyeroll:

[viv]

When you say it "looks like" does that mean it rained out @ Leb or is it O.K. I'm lookin for an after work ride.

[socrates]

Originally posted by viv
When you say it "looks like" does that mean it rained out @ Leb or is it O.K. I'm lookin for an after work ride.

Looking what just went through the metro area I think it's safe to assume every place got dumped on

[viv]

Thanks... looks like housework and a movie again.

[socrates]

Originally posted by viv
Thanks... looks like housework and a movie again.

If you wanna skip the movie I have enough housework to keep you busy over at my place :-) You wont even be expected to do the windows!

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by socrates
Looking what just went through the metro area I think it's safe to assume every place got dumped on

That it did. I'm looking out my window (just 1/2 mile north of Lebanon Hills) and it is DUMPING out... not just heavy rain, but VERY HEAVY rain. Rain rate of 3.40" per hour according to weather bug, with around 1" falling in the last 15 minutes or so.

This is not good. Again, time to stay off the trails. Especially because they were already damp before this rain hit, and I'm sure we're talking multiple inches before the evening is over.

The good thing is we can catch people riding muddy trails at Lebanon tomorrow night and break their knees as they ride by.....

(ok, so maybe we won't do that - but you can bet your a$$ you will have something coming your way if we catch ya there... hehe)

[gopherhockey]

http://www.morcmtb.org/images/temp/weathertemp.jpg
9:00pm 7/14/03

There seems to be something wrong with my

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
The good thing is we can catch people riding muddy trails at Lebanon tomorrow night and break their knees as they ride by.....

(ok, so maybe we won't do that - but you can bet your a$$ you will have something coming your way if we catch ya there... hehe) [/B]

Oh...so now your finally going to use my rock idea....just think of all the damage you could have avoid had you started earlier :D

[gopherhockey]

Conditions are really good right now at Leb. Just one wet spot while exiting the trail (beware of a root that is kind of hiding in the middle of that area).

Looks like Dakota was out and drug some of the gravel around on some of the boring doubletrack - it was getting pretty nasty in places.

Gee... we could have saved them the $ they spent doing that if they would let us put in more singletrack ;)

[Hathor]

As of Wednesday 7/23 at 1:30 p.m. Perfect.

Pretty much just me out there. Not a speck of dust nor water. 75 degrees with a light breeze, sunshine waxing through the rustling leaves. Several LARGE deer in the XX loop standing by casually/not threatening, applauding today's technical brilliance with their eyes (relatively speaking, of course). I love Lebanon! :kiss:

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Hathor
As of Wednesday 7/23 at 1:30 p.m. Perfect.

Pretty much just me out there. Not a speck of dust nor water. 75 degrees with a light breeze, sunshine waxing through the rustling leaves. Several LARGE deer in the XX loop standing by casually/not threatening, applauding today's technical brilliance with their eyes (relatively speaking, of course). I love Lebanon! :kiss:

Oh my God... I think we have a new rule. No more female trail reviews... :eyeroll:

haha

[Kingbozo]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Originally posted by Hathor
As of Wednesday 7/23 at 1:30 p.m. Perfect.

Pretty much just me out there. Not a speck of dust nor water. 75 degrees with a light breeze, sunshine waxing through the rustling leaves. Several LARGE deer in the XX loop standing by casually/not threatening, applauding today's technical brilliance with their eyes (relatively speaking, of course). I love Lebanon! :kiss:

Oh my God... I think we have a new rule. No more female trail reviews... :eyeroll:

haha

She is so lucky-I have all kinds of problems with deer taking a threatening attitude. ;)

[ice ice baby]

Lebanon was in sweet riding condition as of Tuesday evening: really smooth! Any sign of the great wolverine lately?:crazy2:

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by ice ice baby
Any sign of the great wolverine lately?:crazy2:

I think it only comes out at night and is attracted to HID helmet lights... DOH!

Conditions tonight were great. The new section we put in is a little soggy and unstable, but that will pack in over the next few days I'm sure. It is already an improvement.

[gopherhockey]

I just got a call from Tim saying he saw someone had rolled a large rock into the middle of the trail around the berm near Jan's rock. Just FYI - watch for this. I believe he got it off the trail, but it sounds like someone is out doing trail damage again.

[MUni]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
I just got a call from Tim saying he saw someone had rolled a large rock into the middle of the trail around the berm near Jan's rock. Just FYI - watch for this. I believe he got it off the trail, but it sounds like someone is out doing trail damage again. The same people leaving all the trash on the trail? Yesterday I filled two jersey pockets with discarded wrappers. I used to never see trash at Leb! We might have to change the slogan to "Gaining, Maintaining and Cleaning Trails."

[gopherhockey]

My wife Liz and I were out doing a bit of updating on the XX loop this afternoon (Sunday) - can't beat 60s for temp - nice fall like day.. just had to get out and do a little trail work.

Anyway, a few update items to be aware of:

After the rock drop at the start of the XX loop there was a few rocks in the trail - most were riding up to the right of them all. We moved the rocks to the middle of the trail and created kind of a rock drop/jump. There was such a nice large rock there it was a shame nobody was using it. This section may need some touchup work later - it was toward the end of our day and I was tired - not completely satisifed with how it looks... Just be aware there is a jump there now.

Before the Double Log Drop section - added single log drop before you get to the existing obstacle.

Jan's Rock - guys were going around the tree and/or going down the very right side of the rock (not the rock itself) - hopefully made it look more inviting to go down the rock and not cheat.

Climb Out - guys were going down too far and 2 lines were forming near the exit. Covered up the lower line, made the upper line look more inviting.

Also - raked some of the rocks out of the downhill that is just before the X loop entrance. That section really stinks right now - but we'll be working well around it this fall or next spring. I just wanted to get some of the rocks off the middle of the trail to make any potential fall a bit softer. What we should do is drag all the logs/rocks we put on the trail in that area completely off to the side and put it back the way it was... but it might not be worth the effort at this point in time.

As always, never assume the trail is going to be exactly as it was the last time you rode it. Rocks move, logs move... and afternoon trail workers get in there and mix things up a bit ;)

[gopherhockey]

Here is the new boardwalk for those that have not seen it, or didn't see the new photos in the photo gallery...

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/513/1IMG_0066.JPG

[socrates]

thanks John...3 more weeks until I can ride it :banana:

[gopherhockey]

There is a tree down in a very bad spot that everyone needs to watch out for. It is right on the corner of the fast downhill at the very end of the trail. (right where we had that temporary reroute that has since been closed).

Right as you start to get speed around the corner there is a tree laying all the way accross the trail. If people hold any amount of speed there it could be difficult to react in time.

I'll try get out there to remove it if someone else doesn't beat me too it. Until then - beware of this fallen tree...

[gopherhockey]

Just wanted to warn people that the teeter has a problem resetting itself quickly. If you are riding behind someone, leave plenty of space. It currently bounces 5-6 times before settling down. We'll add some weight to that end to help fix this.

My first time over the teeter was at night. I was just about to hit the thing when it came back up about 6" - I still made it onto the teeter but was so freaked by it that I sailed right off the right side into the air rather than riding down the back side.

Luckily we always clear a 6' space around an obstacle, so I was able to land just fine - but it was kinda scary. Not sure I have gotten that much air on my bike before.

The next few times were better - it has a nice exit, very smooth. I have seen guys blast over it or ride it slow and it seems to handle it all really well. Good stuff!

:cheesy:

[SPR]

Rode leb this afternoon, what perfect temps and conditions.
Anyhow I didn't notice right away but after a couple laps I found that the teeter is pivoting at the base. I was able to straighten it out but what had happened is the teeter had pivoted to the left of the rock we put in at the approach. The base needs to be secured better as it was not real hard to move it back in line.
Just a heads up.
Also I would like to make a suggestion to those of you that aren't controlling your speed. There are many areas on the trails that are getting chewed but because of hard braking and the resulting skid. If you have to skid then you 're going to fast and need to back down.
Okay I'll shut up now.

[gopherhockey]

Thanks for the heads up on the teeter. We'll have to look at that. Eventually we hope to anchor it in more permanently, but we certainly could try get it so it doesn't move around where it is now.

Skidding is very much a problem in the XX - I too see breaking bumps all over back there just before obstacles. We'll have to get creative in how we slow people down perhaps - if they can't learn to ride it as is, we'll have to throw in more choke points etc.

I think we need more MORC signs back on the trail as well - more than just on our regular signposts. Running into too many people that think MORC buys the signs or is a sign manufacturer. Anyone good with wood? Perhaps we could cut out some nice 3D MORC logos or put the web site in nice cut-out wood lettering back there somewhere. Something other than a paper sign littering up the place.

[gopherhockey]

I added some weight under the front side of the teeter today in hopes that it won't "hop" so bad after a rider goes over it.

The teeter is still moving though, even with the rocks I put in. Please beware of this as you ride.

There are a few logs that are rotting in the X loop - we'll fix em' next spring. Until then I made a few temporary adjustments in hopes they will make it until next year.

There are leafs on the ground, but it didn't look all that bad really. I think the amount of riders we have this year vs. last have helped keep the trail fairly cleared out. If it gets bad we'll clean some of them up, otherwise just watch out for hidden rocks and roots.

Funny how many people that rode by me today (Sunday) that had no idea what MORC was or who built Lebanon.... we need to do some signs or something!

[gopherhockey]

Tonight at trail work we re-routed a small section in the X loop. I'll try describe.

Near the very beginning there is an area where you go over a log pile and make a really sharp left turn, then over another log pile and head off to the right. That initial left turn had a lot of people dragging their brakes and skidding a big hole out of the back of the log pile. Most have been cutting that log pile off some to straighten out the turn. The log pile was rotted out completely, and the corner was a mess - it had to be fixed.

We made the trail turn right sooner and head slightly back, then around some larger trees to the point of meeting back up with the original trail just before that second small log crossing.

We still kept a log pile there, but had to build it new. Plans are to enhance it somehow at the next trailwork session - but for those that ride it, let us know how you like it as it rides right now.

I think we kept the same (or more) challenge in, added maybe 7' of trail, and re-routed an area that was degrading quickly. We all debated over where we re-routed this area for about an hour before a tool was put into the ground... it was fun to hear each member of the trail crew give their suggestions and thoughts. (we even had 3 people there that had been through the IMBA trail care school this summer)

Just a very very small re-route, but hopefully will fix the trail up a bit and make it fun to experience something slightly new. I know I'm looking forward to riding it tomorrow (Wed) night at our group night ride - 7:30pm.

[ryno lite]

From what the trail crew said, the ground must be starting to freeze. Just kind of wondering what the trail conditions are right now above freezing? Is the trail now frozen below freezing and thawed above freezing and if it is thawing above freezing, is it a greasy mess like last year? I found it easier to ride below freezing late last year than the nice days above freezing because of the greasy mess every time it thawed. Anyway, anybody ride Sunday and if you did, how was Lebanon?

[socrates]

Originally posted by ryno lite
From what the trail crew said, the ground must be starting to freeze. Just kind of wondering what the trail conditions are right now above freezing? Is the trail now frozen below freezing and thawed above freezing and if it is thawing above freezing, is it a greasy mess like last year? I found it easier to ride below freezing late last year than the nice days above freezing because of the greasy mess every time it thawed. Anyway, anybody ride Sunday and if you did, how was Lebanon?

Trail itself is still very dry and you won't notice any difference from the summer...however as I found - if you get even alittle off the trail you'll be sorry as it's really mushy and won't support you

It appears as though the ground is frozen about 2 inches deep in the new trail areas due to the snow/leaves covering the trail there - so I suspect it'll keep freezing/thawing there but again the open sections of the trail are in great shape

[EmL34]

I rode last night and thought the trail was in great shape...except for the spot where someone has dismantled the rock slab jump leading up to the first rock garden in the XX. Quite a bit of excavation. I think there are riders out there who don' t like the way this area was built. Seems like it gets messed with a lot.

[socrates]

Originally posted by EmL34
I rode last night and thought the trail was in great shape...except for the spot where someone has dismantled the rock slab jump leading up to the first rock garden in the XX. Quite a bit of excavation. I think there are riders out there who don' t like the way this area was built. Seems like it gets messed with a lot.

Yeah, unfortunately it's been that way for a few weeks now...everytime I pass I say I'm going to stop on the next lap and fix it but somehow I never do

[EmL34]

I've thought about fixing as well, but have hesitated, in the event that the steward has something going on.

If someone sees something like this, does it make sense to stop and fix, or should it be reserved for trail work day?

[gopherhockey]

Yea, I keep meaning to fix that one too. I haven't stopped to take a look, but it looked to me like a log had gotten turned around just behind the rock. What we probably need to do is remove that log and put a good oak one in its place. We never really did much to build that jump - it just kind of was there...

I'll try get out there, but if anyone wants to try to temporarily fix it feel free...

[ryno lite]

Rode that new section for the first time last night, it was awesome! Can't wait to have the other section done. The wetness really helped the new trail out. I had been on the very first section and it was powder dirt and now its pretty good. I'd love to have the new section open right now, but it's almost better to wait now because I will have all winter to dream about riding brand new single track next year!

Too bad it's crappy today, because the trail was in great condition last night!

[gopherhockey]

I went for a ride tonight around 8pm. It was 42 degrees out and conditions were quite a bit more than just tacky. It seems some frost must be coming out or something. I could see lots of wheel tracks in many areas - not just the new trail. Even the climb out of the parking lot is mushy.

This is a nasty time of year when it doesn't stay below freezing. Its bad for the trails, and people start flocking to the trails when it gets warmer out. This happened last year, but much worse.

If it rains or gets any worse, we'll probably have to talk about doing a temporary close. Right now its right on the edge though. I think it is doing some harm in some areas, but not all. We will have to monitor things this weekend during demo days - a significant amount of riders will make a big difference.

I'll have my camera out this time. If they want proof of what it does to the trails, I'll be able to give it. Guys are going to be coming out of the trail pretty muddy tomorrow. Lets hope it doesn't rain or that we have any more frost come out of the ground.

The newest trail is almost as bad as the bypass climb trail was last July when we first opened it up. YOu sink a good inch or two almost all the way around. There will be some damage there, and probably some riders going down as well.

If its an option for ya, I'd avoid Lebanon this weekend. Wait until it dries up or cools off.

[socrates]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
If its an option for ya, I'd avoid Lebanon this weekend. Wait until it dries up or cools off.

:cryin:

John I would definately take some pictures and post them here....while I'd hope everyone would be able to know when not to ride it would might help prevent a few non-members that frequent this board see exactly the amount of damage that can be done in a short period of time

[gopherhockey]

I spoke to Tim Wegner today - he went out and walked the trail this afternoon and said that conditions appear to be improving. There were only just a few slippery areas, but even our newest trail that we opened up that was soup just days ago is apparently hardening up now.

The last person to ride in on Sunday looked like they had fallen into a mud hole. Today things appear to be fine. That trail is really hard to figure out.

My guess is that we're above freezing enough now to stop the freeze/thaw process that usually wrecks things. We'll still have to watch it during these temp changes, but I thought I'd pass along Tim's comments for those of you planning a ride... sounds like things are improving now.

[Rocky Mountain]

So would it be possible to do a night ride tomorrow, Wed. 11/19/03. John maybe you could join us again? If not we may head over to CBW.

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Rocky Mountain
So would it be possible to do a night ride tomorrow, Wed. 11/19/03. John maybe you could join us again? If not we may head over to CBW.

Dang, I'll be outa town Wed. night.. but you guys ride and have fun!

I do miss the night group rides..

[gopherhockey]

I think for all practical purposes Lebanon Hills is now closed for the year. (for biking, of course...) We have had a bunch of snow, and skiiers are going to be out full force.

Unless we get some crazy string of 40-50 or warmer days (which isn't really out of the question, but almost...) we need to keep off the ski trails. You pretty much can't ride Lebanon without going on one or more ski trails... at least until next winter.

Dale Gundberg has contacted Dakota County about putting up the orange fences. They aren't up yet, but soon. Either way, lets not put bike tracks where skiiers can see them and complain.....

:cryin:

[country]

Just wondering if anyone knew what the status of Monticello is for the winter? I was thinking of heading out there this week since everything but the Bottoms is closed. Thanks

[Rocky Mountain]

The last I heard the YMCA had another profitable Enduro Motorcycle Race which tore the trails up. Contact the BLAST (http://www.bikeblast.com/) organization since they are/were the trail stewards.

[ryno lite]

I was there in late October or early November and it was in pretty good shape! Don't know whether it's open or not. Unless there was a race sometime in Nov or Dec, it should be in fine shape.

[sensorysonic]

Originally posted by Rocky Mountain
[B]The last I heard the YMCA had another profitable Enduro Motorcycle Race which tore the trails up.

The Camp Manitou trail is in great shape. Various individuals and groups did work on this trail including 'Blast' and 'Porkchopracing'. I think the damage by the enduro motorcycle race that has occurred the last few years has been blown way out of proportion. 96% of the mountain bike trail has been untouched by motocross, because the trails are much too tight and twitchy for motocross riding. The Blast built sections are in great condition. A few very short sections have turned into motocross, and I'm talking very short sections. These sections are very rideable, and don't effect the overall fun of the trail. The trail system at Camp Manitou consists of many types of trails, used for a variety of activities from motocross, mountain biking and horse riding. It is very easy to get on the wrong trail, and then it seems the motocross riders have been on all the trails. If you follow the mountain bike trail and the Blast markers, 96% of the trail is tight single track only ridden by mountain bikes. The mountain bike trail has clusters of sections built by Blast. These clusters are hooked up by existing duo-use trails, and these trails are open for everyone, including horses and moto-cross, but you are only on them for short periods. Camp Manitou has a lot of different activities for all age groups, so this is not some private mountain bike park. The mountain bike trail, when groomed and mowed, is so much fun, much like Milaca. We also should not be too critical of the Enduro motorcycle races, as they bring in a BIG paycheck for a day of racing for Camp Manitou, which is a non-profit organization that provides fun outdoor activities for families and kids. That is the primary reason Camp Manitou exists, and they are on a very tight budget. I think Camp Manitou has been very accomodating to mountain bikers, as well as many other groups. Remember, many different groups enjoy this park.

[ryno lite]

Wow, who would have thought that there would be such a treasure-trove of Camp Manitou information on the Lebanon Hills forum!

[sensorysonic]

Originally posted by ryno lite
Wow, who would have thought that there would be such a treasure-trove of Camp Manitou information on the Lebanon Hills forum!
Good observation bro! That's why you are the 'bike guru' and I am just in the 'granny gear' when it comes to challenging forum discussions!! (ha ha).

[country]

I posted here because I knew people would read it since Lebanon is much discussed and I couldn't find a monticello-camp manitou forum. Maybe they will add a forum now that there are a few posts? But your right! Who Knew there was such a wealth of info period?

[sensorysonic]

Hi Mark, check out the Northwestern Minnesota Trails section, that section has the Monticello-Camp Manitou discussion!

[country]

I looked apperently not close enough to discover there was a forum. My apologies for defiling the lebanon forum with monticello stuff. Not the granny gear posting rating explains everything:crazy2:

[sensorysonic]

Hey Mark, it doesn't matter what gear we are in on this forum, just as long as we're having fun! A granny gear will get us there just fine! We'll just be a little behind the big gear mashers on this forum!!

[ryno lite]

Mark, there wasn't much going on in this section of the forum anyway this time of year, so who cares!

[gopherhockey]

Yes, it sure gets quiet this time of year... (except maybe for the corporate scandal talks hehe)

Wonder what all the bikers are doing out there... glad many of you are still sticking around though! Will make the winter go by faster.

[noise_is_life]

Originally posted by gopherhockey
Wonder what all the bikers are doing out there...

Spinvervals, Pilates, South Beach Diet :D

...and the occasional ride in the snow.

[mtnbykr]

Wonder what all the bikers are doing out there...


why, riding of course....w/ a little xc sking thrown in.

kl

[ryno lite]

yeah, I've been avoiding the corporate scandals forum. they're way too intense for me!

[Brick]

Originally posted by gopherhockey

Wonder what all the bikers are doing out there...

Why skiing of course!!

[funky-funky-chicken]

Went for a road ride today. Conditions were awesome... rode about 20 miles, felt good to be on the bike. I miss mountain biking though... I'm gonna have to put together a good snow mountain bike to go bombing around on...

[gopherhockey]

Was out at Lebanon today with Tim doing some trail flagging (yes, the party doesn't end when the snow flies..) It was a great day out there. Lots of snow - skiiers were having a good time. Didn't see but maybe one bike track, and that was limited... looks like people are staying off and letting the skiiers have their fun.

Going to be some fun new trails out there next year...

[jaybird]

I have been stuck in SD on a project and have not been riding for a while. Is LH still open due to the lack of snow?

[gopherhockey]

I've kinda been out of town for a while, then sick the last couple of days... so I'm not real sure what the status is of leb. We haven't put up the fences yet, so as long as we're not riding where skiiers are still going its probably ok. Last time I was there (a few weeks ago) skiiers were still out in force, and there was a lot of hard pack ice/snow on the ground.

[fatbaldpop1]

No snow on the ground in the metro...LH open to ride anyone know?

[SickBoy]

John hasn't been to Lebanon in a while???

Good grief, I just checked the weather report for hell and they had a hard frost last night.... ;)

[fatbaldpop1]

Little Nicky's fried chicken even got cold, eh?

[ezman]

I am so anxious to get out and ride. Does anyone know the conditions at Leb. With such nice weather the last 2 weeks, I imagine that most of the snow is gone. I was thinking about trying to get out later on this week, maybe wednesday or thursday. Let me know if anyone has a report.

[ezman]

I am so anxious to get out and ride. Does anyone know the conditions at Leb. With such nice weather the last 2 weeks, I imagine that most of the snow is gone. I was thinking about trying to get out later on this week, maybe wednesday or thursday. Let me know if anyone has a report.
I mean this only if the park is open of course!! :D

[jaybird]

I'll let John add to this, but I would bet Leb-Hill won't be open to ride until mid to late April - generally two weeks before the first race. The snow may be gone, but the trails need to have the frost thaw out and then dry out in a proper fashion.

If you decide to ignore the fences you run the risk of two things:
1. Damaging the trails and causing portions those trails to be closed due to the extensive repairs required by spring riding.

2. Getting caught by a MORC member and getting your nards cut off.
Okay, I'm exaggerating #2, but probably not by much. ;)

[ezman]

Totally understand. I am definatly not the guy thats gonna go out and try to ruin the trails. I mean--I wanna help out with improving the park, which is why i think that saturday trail work is a good idea. But like everyone else here, I am so ready to get out and ride, the weather has just been to tempting.

Just have to do alittle freeriding around campus! :crazy2:

[gopherhockey]

I'll let John add to this, but I would bet Leb-Hill won't be open to ride until mid to late April - generally two weeks before the first race. The snow may be gone, but the trails need to have the frost thaw out and then dry out in a proper fashion.





If you decide to ignore the fences you run the risk of two things:1. Damaging the trails and causing portions those trails to be closed due to the extensive repairs required by spring riding.



2. Getting caught by a MORC member and getting your nards cut off.


Okay, I'm exaggerating #2, but probably not by much. ;) Yea, we were out flagging at Lebanon this weekend and its still real full of snow - lots of hard pack snow or deep snow out in the woods. Its funny how you can drive around and it looks like spring, but wander into the woods and its still winter. Hopefully, with a little luck, we'll be opening the trails early like last year.


We'll need some help patroling the parking lot this spring I have a feeling.... it was kinda fun last year to hang out and talk to riders - do a little MORC promotion etc. Really there were only a few people last year that got mad when they saw the trails were closed. (there is always a few in the crowd...)

Seems so close, yet so far away....

[gopherhockey]

Just an FYI - the orange fencing will be going up at Lebanon this weekend and into early next week. Lets all hope that we can take it down sometime in April and start riding!

When the weather starts to warm up, lets also do some parking lot patrol like last year. Its actually quite fun to hang out in the lot on a sunny afternoon and listen to the trees sucking up all the moisture as the trail gets ready to ride... and to talk to people arriving at the trail with expectations of riding. Its very easy to pass along education of the trails and to plug MORC at the same time. I believe I made a few friends and recruited a few trail workers in just a couple hours on the weekends last year.

I'll try get a "spring" brochure made up to pass out once that time comes... this will be an exciting year at Lebanon - I'm hoping not to spend the first couple of weeks repairing trail damage like we did last year...

[gopherhockey]

Was out at Lebanon today. W're nowhere near being ready to ride out there. Its like the dead of winter back in the woods still. The trails have a 4" thick icepack on them, with another 6 or so inches of snow on top of it. In fact the areas around the trail are doing better - probably because people have been tramping down the bike trails during the winter. (which is ok... let em'...)

3 weeks minimum is my bet.

I ran out of orange fence... :cryin:

[jaybird]

Are we getting another bet going?!?!? :D


I still think Apr 17 is not going to happen.

[gopherhockey]

Are we getting another bet going?!?!? :D


I still think Apr 17 is not going to happen.
Last week of April is my bet. (with the 2nd to last week being a huge battle trying to fight even ourselves from getting out onto the trail)

The week looks promising with 50+ degree temps... but rain.

[grizzly adam]

I dunno - supposed to be close to 60, REAL soon!

[zerpy]

Was out at Lebanon today. W're nowhere near being ready to ride out there. Its like the dead of winter back in the woods still. The trails have a 4" thick icepack on them, with another 6 or so inches of snow on top of it. In fact the areas around the trail are doing better - probably because people have been tramping down the bike trails during the winter. (which is ok... let em'...)

3 weeks minimum is my bet.

I ran out of orange fence... :cryin:

So are you the one that laid the bike tracks I saw?

[gopherhockey]

So are you the one that laid the bike tracks I saw?
There BETTER NOT be any bike tracks out there! Looks like we better get the rest of the fence up. Do people have no brains? :fool:

[Hathor]

Way to go Jason. You got him all fired up! Just kidding.There BETTER NOT be any bike tracks out there! Looks like we better get the rest of the fence up. Do people have no brains? :fool:

[gopherhockey]

Way to go Jason. You got him all fired up! Just kidding.
I can see I'm going to have to get the camo out and start sitting out on the trail ready to nab trail poachers... :evil:

[socrates]

I can see I'm going to have to get the camo out and start sitting out on the trail ready to nab trail poachers... :evil:
I've put a couple rock piles aside for just this thing John...lemme know when to meet you and we can take care of this problem :D

[TrailPatrol]

Captain Hathor,
What, pray tell, is a "Merchandise Director"? Do you sell paint ball guns and camo?
Mr. Hathor, (aka John)
Why does she still get the biggest avatar? Remember, the biggest challenge in education is educating the educators. Only after the educators are educated, can they start to educate the educatable. :zzz:

I am up to giving people a hard time again, so I figured I'd start with the lovely Lundells. (Okay, so John is not so lovely...) :crazy2:

Rant safe...I mean...
Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[zerpy]

There BETTER NOT be any bike tracks out there! Looks like we better get the rest of the fence up. Do people have no brains? :fool:
My wife and I were driving by and I decided to drive through the lot and have a peek. I noticed a set of relatively fresh looking tracks leading from the parking lot and into the entrance to the main loop. However, I didn't see any other tracks from my quick peek so I was wondering where they came out. Also, if it's as deep as you say it is, how'd they get through? Unless they realized it was too deep pretty quick and carried the bike out. Who knows...

[gopherhockey]

Captain Hathor,
What, pray tell, is a "Merchandise Director"? Do you sell paint ball guns and camo?
Mr. Hathor, (aka John)
Why does she still get the biggest avatar? Remember, the biggest challenge in education is educating the educators. Only after the educators are educated, can they start to educate the educatable. :zzz:

I am up to giving people a hard time again, so I figured I'd start with the lovely Lundells. (Okay, so John is not so lovely...) :crazy2:

Rant safe...I mean...
Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans
And I love taking it... a hard time that is. ;)

Seriously though, Liz was selected as the MORC Merchandise Coordinator (or whatever title you want to give it) as she now sends out the MORC socks, jerseys, and any other items we may have online for purchase. She has been doing a great job - once she gets the sock list she gets em' out the very next day.

[gopherhockey]

My wife and I were driving by and I decided to drive through the lot and have a peek. I noticed a set of relatively fresh looking tracks leading from the parking lot and into the entrance to the main loop. However, I didn't see any other tracks from my quick peek so I was wondering where they came out. Also, if it's as deep as you say it is, how'd they get through? Unless they realized it was too deep pretty quick and carried the bike out. Who knows...My guess is they didn't make it very far and turned around. I put up the fence down on the west side where the singletrack starts and the ski trail ends and saw no trails/tracks.

We gotta get the rest of the fences up this week though... people feel warm weather and they turn into idiots. You can actually still see quite a bit of snow at Lebanon - I can't see current conditions as being remotely fun to ride in.

BTW points to you for driving by and checking up on the trails!!

[socrates]

My guess is they didn't make it very far and turned around. I put up the fence down on the west side where the singletrack starts and the ski trail ends and saw no trails/tracks.

We gotta get the rest of the fences up this week though... people feel warm weather and they turn into idiots. You can actually still see quite a bit of snow at Lebanon - I can't see current conditions as being remotely fun to ride in.

BTW points to you for driving by and checking up on the trails!!Need help? (With the fense that is)

[gopherhockey]

Need help? (With the fense that is)
Actually I might take you up on that. I was thinking of trying to get out there sooner than Sat. but its not looking good so it might be Sat. morning or afternoon.

We need to put up the parking lot fences, then go back and do the entrances and exits to the other trails. I got a few done on the west side.

I don't know if it is necessary, but I may put up a fence or two on the XX loop as well.. I suspect people may try sneak over there using the ski trails.

[grizzly adam]

Let me know when you're doing this fence stuff - I just live down the road now and might be able to help.

[Crash]

Let me know when you're doing this fence stuff - I just live down the road now and might be able to help.
ditto here. Just post when you need help and I'll try to make it.

[Hathor]

Can't ride it, so let's talk about it some more. I went out to Lebanon today (Wed.) to see if it is even hikable, and because it is friggin gorgeous out. It was GREAT to be back there, it's like it was calling to me. Unfortunately, to make a good hike of it, I would've needed iceskates, snow shoes, and mudslingers all at once. The only place that was nearly dry was around the perimeter of the big bowl, and it was almost impossible to even get there. Anyway, I was sad to see it is still going to be a long time before it is ridable, but it was pure joy just being back there, taking in Spring, and daydreaming of it.

[gopherhockey]

Tim, Dale and I decided to head out and put up the fences earlier than this weekend after reports of bike tracks. (thanks to everyone that volunteered though - we could use you on weekends to do parking lot patrol if you so desire..)

We closed off everything on the JCRR side except the hiking trail, then completely closed down the entrance to Galaxie, as well as a number of trails inside the park.

I am quite upset, however. It looked like 3 bikers went in on the Galaxie entrance and sunk about 4" into the ground really tearing up a part of the trail we re-claimed last year at the REI trail day. A VERY large amount of damage in one very short ride. They tried to climb up the hills back there and finally gave up, but of course rode back out again.

Am I crazy, or are some people just morons by nature and will never use their heads. Even the most eager rider could see the conditions were nowhere near close to riding.

There were some bike tracks heading out of the parking lot on the JCRR side as well, but my guess is they didn't go very far. You could see water running down the bike track as it melted... hope Dakota doesn't see that.

If you know people who ride, or know people who know people who ride that might not be active in the forums - PLEASE send them a message telling them trails are closed until May 1 or until further notice. DOn't even TRY go out there mid-April even if its 80 degrees out. There is still snow on the ground and a foot of frost under the soil. You all know this, but perhaps you know some people who just don't understand....

:cryin:

[Crash]

John,

When did you put the fences up? I was out for a road ride tonight around Eagan/Apple Valley on my old mtb and decided to bike up JCRR instead of Galaxie. It was about 6:30 and as I rode by I saw 3 guys in the parking lot on bikes. So I ride into the lot just as they are going up by the big orange fence that blocks off the double track up the hill (the one with the TRAIL CLOSED sign). They are about to go around it and jump into the beginner loop exit - I guess the orange fence at the entrance of the beginner loop was not enough to stop them.:mad:

I talkled with them before they got anywhere and explained the trails are closed. They didn't quite understand that even the beginner loop was closed but did agree not to ride.

If you guys are reading this - I hope you did the right thing and jumped back in your vehicle after I left ;)

Guess my MORC Jersery helped me look official and all!

[ryno lite]

It just blows my mind! Even in the days years ago when I rode on wet trails occassionally (before I knew better) I would have never ridden on trails this time of year in this condition. I can't even ride in this slop even if you wanted to. I can see people not knowing whats going on and making a mistake, but people going around fences that close the trail really bother me. The fence is there for a reason, can't they figure it out?

I might be able to help on parking lot patrol this weekend if needed!

[gopherhockey]

I talkled with them before they got anywhere and explained the trails are closed. They didn't quite understand that even the beginner loop was closed but did agree not to ride.

If you guys are reading this - I hope you did the right thing and jumped back in your vehicle after I left ;)

This is exactly what we need people to do - help educate. Apparently sloppy wet trails, snow, and big orange fences do not help. (we must have just put the fences up when you were there). I'm going to make up some trail closed signs and hang them on each fence - apparently we need to explain what the big orange fences mean.

I'll post a color brochure here tomorrow for people to print out if they want some official looking material to hand out to people.

They shouldn't sell bikes to people that dumb... makes us all look bad. Even at this point in time its beyond education I think. As we get closer to May 1 and the trails seem to look dry just past the fences I could *maybe* understand... but this week?

Some of our own fellow bikers are real morons.

Also... since when does beginner trail = dry trail... apparently because its easier to ride it must be in better condition than the rest of the trail? :alien:

[zerpy]

It just blows my mind! Even in the days years ago when I rode on wet trails occassionally (before I knew better) I would have never ridden on trails this time of year in this condition. I can't even ride in this slop even if you wanted to. I can see people not knowing whats going on and making a mistake, but people going around fences that close the trail really bother me. The fence is there for a reason, can't they figure it out?

I might be able to help on parking lot patrol this weekend if needed!
TV commercials and Print Ads that sensationalize riding in muddy conditions and demonstrate that getting covered in slop is the "hard core" cool way to ride prob don't help much. Especially for the weak minded that these ads are targeted at. I want to believe that most people don't understand that the damage caused doesn't just heal itself in the "natural" cycle of things. It might heal if the trail was closed down and giving a couple of years of freeze thaw:crazy: I guess I just want to belive that the majority of people that get the idea into their heads either are just too self centered to think about the damage or they just don't understand what that damage really does. Because that means they can be educated on how waiting a few weeks really improves things, rather than truly malicious people that don't give a crap that you can educate them till your blue in the face it won't do any good.

[Tim Wegner]

This is an interesting discussion. I am seeing a change in attitude about trail riding in the mud. 2 years ago when we first opened the trails we had to fight people to stay off the trails when they were wet. Believe me, I yelled at plenty of people in the parking lot who came back muddy. (when you help to build a trail, you know how much work it is and you develop ownership of the trail system)

Then a year ago we saw fewer people that needed to be "educated." More people were doing the educating and convincing their friends that riding this time year needs to be done on the pavement and not on the fragile trails.

So I figured this year would be a breeze--more people involved in trail building, more people with ownership of the trail, fewer problems with "dumb ass" people riding on muddy trails. Not the case--there were tire tracks leaving the parking lot heading up the double track, people in the parking lot riding their bikes around I am sure they would have gone on the trails were it not for Dale John and I working on closing the trails. Did have a nice discussion with one guy that wanted to be educated about why not to ride this time of the year. Said he would come back and help John with trail work.

What really disgusted me was when we came in from the Galaxie side. The "dumb ass" riders had been there. Ruts 3-4" deep and full of water running down the hill. They had even tried to ride up the 3 hills that had been shut down all last summer, these are the 3 hills that we spent several days working reclaiming and reseeding for Dakota County last year.

Almost makes me want to say "screw it, no one gives a rip about all the work we do, resign from IMBA, MORC sell my interest in trail source and just ride and do whatever I want with all the free time I would have if it weren't all spent on trails."

But then I think about the devotion of so many, the ones that have worked so hard to gain access and work diligently to improve the trails and I think, maybe it is not malicious in many of the cases maybe it is just ignorance. Stupid people we have to deal with in a different way than people that are ignorant.

We all need to become involved with educating ignorant people, stupid people we just need to cut their bikes in half and make sure they know that if we catch them riding on wet, muddy trails again they will be dealt with more severly. :scream:

TW

[TrailDale]

Hi Gang,
MORC could use your help keeping the yahoos off the trail this spring, until the official opening. All you need to do is ride or drive by the parking lot whenever you can, like on the way home from work, or on your evening ride, and talk to and educate the would-be riders on why they should not be there. Be nice, unless and until the yahoos get verbally abusive. You can then say what ever it takes to get through their thick skulls. As a trail volunteer who built and maintained these trails, you have every right to protect the trails. Go to it!

Thanks, and please read the text below. These signs will be posted at the trailhead (and reposted as the yahoos rip them down).

Dale Gundberg

These trails were built entirely by volunteers, with no public money.

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PLACE><ST1:PLACENAME>Dakota</ST1:PLACENAME><ST1:PLACETYPE>County</ST1:PLACETYPE></ST1:PLACE> officially closes the Mountain Bike Trails until May 1st.

We know that this has been a tough winter to fulfill our mountain bike passion. Tons of snow and bitter cold have left us with a jones to get out there and ride on real dirt. But use your head and stay off the trails until the thaw is out of the ground and the trails have dried and hardened. One of the worst things you can do is ride -or hike- on trails before they are ripe.

Trails are dynamic and change with the seasons and weather conditions. While during most of the season the mineral soils that make up good hardened trails are fairly stable, spring is the most sensitive time for trails, making them vulnerable to erosion and long term damage.

As frost works its way through the upper soil cap, the soil moves and shifts. The trail loses density as frozen water pushes and prods the mineral particulate, and Mother Nature becomes vulnerable. As the frost thaws and releases water, the dirt resettles and realigns in a muddy mix, and the organic matter from last fall's leaf litter blends in with the mineral soil to begin to create a new generation of trail dirt. This organic/mineral mix eventually re-hardens and makes for a primo path through the woods, but it's critical to let this process happen on its own.

If we ride, hike or horse around on the trails before this process is complete, the damage to the trail could be permanent. The soils will be churned up, and gravity and the sheeting action of rain will wash them away, leaving a mess of exposed roots and rocks. If the trail is soft, our wheels may leave sunken tracks, which can become natural channels for rain to carry the soils away. If we hike, our heels will dig deep into the trails and help push the soils downhill.

We know it's hard -you want to ride- but be patient. Just because you "can" ride, doesn't mean that you "should." Here are a few ideas and other riding option:

Use your lawn as a trail barometer. Before you think of hitting the trails, take a ride on your lawn. If you can see your tracks sinking in, stay off the trails. Chances are they're not yet ripe for riding or hiking.

Use mud season to build fitness by putting in some serious "base miles" on the road. If you don't have a road bike, buying some skinny slicks will make you feel super-charged, and the fitness you'll develop will make your trail riding that much more pleasurable later on.



Trail riding at this time may result in large fines. We will be taking license numbers and calling the Park Patrol on a regular basis until the trails officially open.

If the trails are left alone, they may be opened early. However, if damage occurs, the opening will be delayed until the damage is repaired by volunteers. It's up to you.

Lastly, use the "Trail Conditions" section of the Online Forums to check out the official or early opening date.



Thanks for being a responsible rider.

[grizzly adam]

Dale,

Thanks for the "soon to be signs". I'm going to be working on our teams newsletter for April and planned on talking about when to ride the trails. If you don't mind, I'd love to use what you posted - with credit going to you of course.

[Crash]

Dale,

That is exactly what I tried to explain to those yahoos last night - but not in so many words ;)

Excellent document!

[gopherhockey]

Dale,

That is exactly what I tried to explain to those yahoos last night - but not in so many words ;)

Excellent document!
I like that it has some teeth too it - the fact that fines can (and will) be handed out. We all know last year some idiot mouthed off to one of the parks guys on the trail and got himself a huge fine... this time I'm going to be spending a LOT of time patroling the trails (but hopefully never seeing anyone back there).

Maybe the people who could care less about the trails might think twice if they sense their truck might be gone when they return to the parking lot ;)

I'm picking up plastic covers to post these signs on all our fences on Sat...

[TONZE]

are there going to be any new advanced sections open this year at leb?

[gopherhockey]

are there going to be any new advanced sections open this year at leb?Probably no XX trails like last year, but there may be subtle advances add-ons to existing non XX trails (alternatives, like a rock placed on the side for someone to jump etc.)

This year is intermediate single-track trail year. I'm hoping to also get a tight twisty trail put in that might border on expert... more of a slow moving balance type of trail than a fast flowing one.

[martini]

So! Hows it looking for opening this weekend John? Is it this weekend? Or are we talking May1? Seems to me like it may still be kinda soft at Leb as of now.

Uh, never mind...I'm just a dumbass this morning...I see Dales note down below has it listed as opening May1...carry on!

[Rocky Mountain]

So are there plans to ride down in the Jolly Green Giant land this weekend? Otherwise, I was thinking about doing some road biking on the Sakatah Trail this weekend.

[martini]

I haven't heard back fom Mark yet, he was the one that was so amed up to do it! I'm all for it, I've got the time, and the roads should be in really good shape(not soupy). Saturday is probably the better day. C'mon down folks! Just enter 119 south 4th street Le Sueur into the handy mapquest for directions.

[SuperClydesdale]

Marty, et. al.

I am up/down for the Tour de Sueur. Any particular start time work for you?

Mark

[grizzly adam]

Ooh - Ooh!

what is it? how far? when? I'm free late Saturday morning.....after 10.