Trail Conditions in Detail - Lebanon Hills

[kidneyThieve]

Any Updates on the trail? Open? Closed?

THanks!
-amb

[ibismojo2001]

Trail was in great shape last night!

[Damian]

Is it raining at Leb?
Anyone been on the trails today, Saturday?
Thanks for the update!

[Thewavebb]

i was thinking the same thing

[waitabit]

I live in West St Paul just North of Leb. and it was threatening but it never rained here, I guess its worth a look, if its wet go to Salem.

[destrago]

We got maybe (MAYBE) 1/10-1/5" of rain here, 2 miles north of Leb. Based on conditions out there yesterday the trail should be just fine.


-Tony

[LightWeight]

Yes, trail=good condition

[gopherhockey]

Dry Dry powder dry out there.

Finished trimming the beginner loop today.

Dug in some rocks on the rock drop at the entrance of the XX today where some weekend warriors were making an easy line. If they move these, we'll just make it even harder. I threw some dirt down on the bottom of that area in an attempt to try keep the rocks from coming out in this dry weather... it might look easier for a day or two, but it will pack in.

Covered up a poor ol' oak root in the X loop as well... and some other misc stuff. First day of a week off and I'm already bored!

Thanks to all those who stopped to chat! (Buck, Greg etc.)

[ryno lite]

I wish I had today off! Of well, that's what I get for all the vacation time as of late!

[gopherhockey]

Recharged and went out and got the first half of the expert loop trimmed.

Just the last half of the x and the first part of Dream II left to trim.. then probably have to start the process all over again. :p

[Thewavebb]

I wish I had today off! Of well, that's what I get for all the vacation time as of late!

I'm with you on that. I work 9am to 8pm today.....But i'm off tuesday through sunday.:banana:

[timmy]

John, at the end of the skinny on the Camelback the last wood piece is broke in half. The two screws are exposed but I don't know if they will cause any harm to tires.

Greg

[gopherhockey]

John, at the end of the skinny on the Camelback the last wood piece is broke in half. The two screws are exposed but I don't know if they will cause any harm to tires.

Greg

Sounds like camelback repair might be the thing to do on the 11th when we return to trailwork.

Maybe if someone has a small screwdriver out on the trail they could pull the screws out to be safe.

[soupboy]

What happened to the small double? The new "lip" seems to be more dangerous than the old double.

If you hit it with any speed and you almost launch into the woods.

Bayootiful day out there today. Lots of newbies but thankfully they were sticking to the outer loop.

[Buck]

What happened to the small double? The new "lip" seems to be more dangerous than the old double.

If you hit it with any speed and you almost launch into the woods.

Bayootiful day out there today. Lots of newbies but thankfully they were sticking to the outer loop.


I built it per request of John L.

You have to learn how to hit it. Happens with any new thing out on the trail. I have no problem hitting it at top speed and landing right in the berm. Which will soon be armored up with some rocks!

L8Rz
Buck

[soupboy]

I built it per request of John L. You have to learn how to hit it. Happens with any new thing out on the trail. I have no problem hitting it at top speed and landing right in the berm. Which will soon be armored up with some rocks!
Yeah, but you're Mr. Boom Boom Huck Jam and 99.9% of us are not. ;) If my scaredy-cat big carcass can almost launch myself into the tulies me thinks it might be a bit off.

Learn to hit it? Not sure how much of learning curve should be built into this stuff. Do you mean setting up right to left as you go up it? I suppose that's intuitive to the person that built it but for anyone hitting it the first time there is nothing telling you to do anything other than go straight ahead.

Seems as though you used the 2nd of the old jumps as the new jump and that moves you several extra feet down trail. Results in a big reduction in the length of the LZ/runout.

Berm, what berm? It's a flat to slightly off camber LH turn...unless you mean you're planning a berm, now that would be solid.

I appreciate all the hard work, I just don't want some newb getting skewered.

[gopherhockey]

We might have to get the machine out there to help move the jump back. Buck did a good job of removing the double, but it he and I realize it should have been back about 5-6'. Too much dirt to move.

Hopefully people will not just hit the thing at full speed. I hit it at about the same speed as the double and had no problems with the turn, but I can see others going past well into the weeds. We'll fix it up, but it was important to remove the double initially.

I'm tired of people who can't control their bike no matter what the obstacle or trail. Everyone thinks they have to hit things as fast as they possibly can to have fun.

Wish I could have ridden today. Seems yesterday's trimming has left me with one sore lower back. Had to settle for watching the Tour and the World Cup. Looks like great weather out there!

[Buck]

ah, john beat me to it!

[soupboy]

I'm tired of people who can't control their bike no matter what the obstacle or trail. Everyone thinks they have to hit things as fast as they possibly can to have fun.

I agree with you, but I just don't want some schwande on a Magna with no helment to launch himself into a stump and ruin it for us all. It's not even a "fast as you can" thing. Pushing the takeoff several feet forward there makes a big difference.

For folks that ride there often it should not be a big issue.

As always, big thanks to the folks moving and shaping dirt!

[SprocketHead]

What happened to the small double? The new "lip" seems to be more dangerous than the old double.

If you hit it with any speed and you almost launch into the woods.

Bayootiful day out there today. Lots of newbies but thankfully they were sticking to the outer loop.

I concur... I took a little air off it and landed just before the berm. It looked like if I had more air, I'd be in the woods or maybe on top of the berm.

I'm not trying to be critical, I appreciate your hard work.. The drop and the new log crossing is a hoot:)

[crux]

I'm tired of people who can't control their bike no matter what the obstacle or trail. Everyone thinks they have to hit things as fast as they possibly can to have fun.

(Same topic seems to keep showing up here.)

Think that Buck did a great job on the jump and don't really see any reason to make any more modifications to that section this season. We really need more of these types of areas where we can assist people in learning to control their bike and if the optional line is not up to the "lowest common denominator" of the rider then stick to the ride around. Riders should learn how to control their bike regardless of speed, turnes, brakes without tearing into the trail or themselves. Leb is one of the best trails around in the TC, but can't beleive that Flat as a pancake Nebraska and Iowa have two trails 45 min apart that really should be ridden (have take newbies on both and they all lived) to make a fair comparison.

Platte (Did the ground work on upper gully before it was a trail, and helped with roller coster)
http://trails.mtbr.com/cat/united-states-trails/trails-nebraska/trail/PRD_168891_4561crx.aspx

Lewis & Clark (Did not help build any section, just know a few of the people that did and it is a great trail, some areas suffering from erosion due to soil type)
http://trails.mtbr.com/cat/united-states-trails/trails-iowa/trail/PRD_167922_4547crx.aspx



Wish I could have ridden today. Seems yesterday's trimming has left me with one sore lower back. Had to settle for watching the Tour and the World Cup. Looks like great weather out there!

Up for a Single Speed Thursday group ride?

[gopherhockey]

Sorry to keep this off topic - I'll post up conditions when i get back from my morning ride.

When I was trimming the trail the other day (again) an older rider passed me and threw out a comment.. "you removed the double jump, that was my favorite!". All I could say was "sorry, it was not safe..." before he was gone. I then remembered he was the same guy who I saw a few weeks earlier at the top of the bypass - he then said "you are putting rocks right in the faster line" and I said "yup..." and he once again was gone.

Most riders when they pass by are appreciative of our efforts. I know people are here as well. Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

However.. just think of what it feels to be a trailworker and hear the negative comments without offers of showing up to assist in the fix.

I know not everyone can make trailwork and most if not all of you put in your support for the local efforts in some way or another... so I'm not saying put up or shut up. Its just a gentle reminder of the frustration someone can feel over issues like this and to just be careful.

Sprock & Soupboy - this is not aimed at you because of your comments or how you said it. It was just a reminder of something I've wanted to repeat for some time now.

Lets get back to conditions on this thread... discuss the jump or trail in another if necessary. Again, I don't mind the discussion...

[gopherhockey]

Trail is still dry and in need of rain. Rocks continue to come loose on the trail. Be careful around corners, they are getting slick with all the dust and hardpack.

People are still walking/cutting between trails for various reasons. I had to close up another area just before the last climb on the Dream trail. That particular area is VERY dangerous to cut because it takes you onto the trail where riders are coming downhill fast. If you see people doing this, politely tell them to stop it and explain why. Areas like this aren't even good for people with mechanical problems to cut... If it continues we'll have to waste trail crew time making it impossible to get through these areas.

... anyone know how to transplant poison ivy safely? :cool:

In all seriousness I'm thinking we need to put in an easy route to avoid that last hill. I hate to do it, but I suspect there are too many people who can't handle the climb and will never stop cutting the trail in that spot. It just means less skidders destroying the back side of the hill anyway...

[dave t]

... anyone know how to transplant poison ivy safely? :cool:


Just get a real cheap shovel and do the tree spade thing.:D

Actually, judging from how few people seem to have any idea what it looks like, just a big sign saying "danger, poison ivy" should doo the trick.

[dopey048]

Trail is still dry and in need of rain. Rocks continue to come loose on the trail. Be careful around corners, they are getting slick with all the dust and hardpack.

I know all too well. I had my experience on Sunday with the powder dirt and taking a corner too fast. Front tire washed right out. Think it might be the Scorpion tires too, they seem to have a no man's land in the tread.

[trompete]

In all seriousness I'm thinking we need to put in an easy route to avoid that last hill. I hate to do it, but I suspect there are too many people who can't handle the climb and will never stop cutting the trail in that spot. It just means less skidders destroying the back side of the hill anyway...

An idea: Have the bypass go around and down to right before the bridge so that both people have a clear line of sight to each other.

[crux]

... anyone know how to transplant poison ivy safely? :cool:

Use those who show up for trail work in the peach colored shirts:D.

Actually if you want to move a few plants here is a quick how to:
To transplant poison ivy use a large garbage bag covering ALL of the plant down to the base and tie it off this will act as a barrier. Next dig it up with enough soil around it to keep the plant happy durring the move if you want to keep it alive. Move it to its new home and remove the bag being careful to only touch the out side of the bag and discard into a second bag with other transplant bags being careful not to touch the internals of the bags. Now go take a shower and use the anti - ivy stuff hoping that none of the oil touched your skin.

Wait for some to complain on the board how they are a bit itchy after taking their favorite short cut.:fool:


In all seriousness I'm thinking we need to put in an easy route to avoid that last hill. I hate to do it, but I suspect there are too many people who can't handle the climb and will never stop cutting the trail in that spot. It just means less skidders destroying the back side of the hill anyway...


Lets pave the trail and get it over with along with only allowing those electric scooters and bikes.:sick:

Hate to sanitize the trail, but think that you could be on to something here with some of the riders getting in over their heads, give them a chicken route out, if this saves some of the trail as far as usage for the MTBers then I'm all for it.:)

[gopherhockey]

I finished trimming Dream II today. Everything is trimmed except the 2/3 of the X loop.

I think I might have found the trimmers limit as well. Right at the end I took the battery out and smoke came bellowing out. DOH!

[Hathor]

Anybody know if the paramedics got that guy out okay this morning? Not really sure what happened to him. Didn't look too bad but was obviously hurt enough for 911.

[Tomg]

I don't have any details but yes they did get him out. I had passed the guy on my 1st loop and he asked me how far to the parking lot. He said someone had suggested the intermediat loop for a hybrid bike and he did not agree with the suggestion anymore :) He looked tired but not in trouble. When I came around for my 2nd loop he was down and somebody was already with him. I asked if they needed help and they said no he thought they would walk out. I was very surprized to see all the paramedics and search/rescue when I made it back to the parking lot. They were just unloading the 4 wheeler and litter when I left. I had to stop by Penn Cycle for a minute or two on the way home and when I left I saw the ambulance west bound on Cliff.

Hope he is alright! Not sure if it was a crash or the heat.

[aschmidt]

when i arrived today at the trail he was on the litter - but before i started riding i saw him standing up - which seemed to me was a very good sign. about 4 hours later after finishing my last lap his wife showed up and i drove his car home for her. she told me he was home from the hospital and lying down in bed with a sore back - she said the hospital had not taken head or neck xrays. i think she felt he would be ok.

[crux]

Trail is going to be wet and muddy this morning due to rain, but should be a very fast once it starts to dry up. Keeping an eye on the weather cause I want to ride...

[gopherhockey]

Hardly a trace of rain a few miles south of Leb. I wish we would get an inch or more.

[destrago]

just a few splashes here just north or leb, trails probably didn't even feel that.

-tony

[trompete]

Just got back. It was tacky! Go ride.

[gopherhockey]

Ted and I went out today and did some minor maintenance. We replaced the busted out log on the sharp left turn toward the beginning of the Joey trail. We also placed a few rocks back into the catwalk climb and closed down (again) the easy line that was forming to the left of the rock garden at the top.

[soupboy]

Is there a map/guide anywhere on the site with all the new or renamed trail sections?

[gopherhockey]

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2644&size=big&cat=513&limit=recent

The pink line is an approximation of Stooges Run. Where the pink line starts is where we cross the ski trail rather than riding on it to the start of the bypass trail. The Intermediate Bypass is also an approximation. The rest is GPS data.

The "upper bypass" is the bypass trail just past the words "Jan's Rock" where it used to run out onto the ski trail.

We will re-GPS these areas in the fall to get a more complete map and will get the names and numbers corrected. There should be a letter/number every .2 miles starting with each section of trail. For example, the "G" trail is that reall small section of trail over on the galaxy side that goes between 2 hiking trails.

Also note what says "Joey Trail" is actually "Rider Trail" and the one just before it labeled with an "F" is actually the Joey Trail. This is beacuse Joey Klein of IMBA flagged that section, and Mike Rider of IMBA came and did the second part starting at the Galaxie entrance right up to the bypass.

We will also be putting the trail names on the carsonite signs at some point.

The only new section of trail we have left this year is right at the expert loop rock garden. Instead of taking a real sharp right at that one rock climing up to the rock garden we are going straight over that rock and surfing the side of the hill, doing a climbing turn, then coming back to meet up with the rock garden area. It will be a nice X to XX rock ride. There will be an easy ride-around that still utilizes the rock garden that is there now. This will be done this fall in September.

I updated the trail review with this new map.

[crux]

Ted and I went out today and did some minor maintenance. We replaced the busted out log on the sharp left turn toward the beginning of the Joey trail. We also placed a few rocks back into the catwalk climb and closed down (again) the easy line that was forming to the left of the rock garden at the top.

Like the closure of the rouge trail and rock work done today.

At least you picked a cool day to head out;)

[Wolfchimp]

Just rode Leb today for the first time since all the new stuff was put in. I like it! Obviously, it will be better when it gets a little more smoothed out but it is nice to not be riding the double track. I have three words though....WE NEED RAIN! The trail was like the dust bowl and many corners were very soft because of the extreme dry conditions. As usual though, it was a good ride.

[soupboy]

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2644&size=big&cat=513&limit=recent

Thanks John. I forgot about that. I'd filled in one map with yellow areas that look potentially like more trail opps.

I agree with 'Chimp on the dryness. The new sections have gone from muddy/soft to downright silty in places.

Still the best trail in da Shiddies by a long shot.

Bring da rain.

[gopherhockey]

Thanks John. I forgot about that. I'd filled in one map with yellow areas that look potentially like more trail opps.

I agree with 'Chimp on the dryness. The new sections have gone from muddy/soft to downright silty in places.



There definitely seems to be some remaining areas with potential. I would say we probably haven't seen the last new trail.. we're still working to get east of JCRR as well. I get my hand slapped by Dakota County every time I point on that side of the map though. ;)

The dryness is out of control. ANyone have a good rain dance?

[soupboy]

ANyone have a good rain dance?

I heard that Shad and ChrisD do a version of The Forbidden Dance that is to die for!

Not sure though if it emits enough fluid to dampen a trail...

[crux]

Know that we have all seen the trail closed due to rain.

But this long term lack of rain is almost as bad for the trail, hopefully wee will see some rain soon to soak the trail for a day or two and get the trail back in shape.

There definitely seems to be some remaining areas with potential. I would say we probably haven't seen the last new trail.. we're still working to get east of JCRR as well. I get my hand slapped by Dakota County every time I point on that side of the map though. ;)


There are several areas with quite a bit of potential. To bad that Dakota keeps us (John:laugh:) on such a short leash. There are areas in which several unique sections could be added, but would require some signage; a slow roller coaster section, gully trail section, free ride section, and skill section all we need is a green light and few people willing to help out to make it a reality.

Until we get a green light all of this is discussion is all for not.:cryin: but at least we still have a really good trail to all still go out and ride:D

[gopherhockey]

To bad that Dakota keeps us (John:laugh:) on such a short leash. There are areas in which several unique sections could be added, but would require some signage; a slow roller coaster section, gully trail section, free ride section, and skill section all we need is a green light and few people willing to help out to make it a reality.

While Lebanon as it is today has taken many years to accomplish, I think Dakota County has been really great to work with. The original 10 year master plan for the park calls for only 5 miles of mountain bike trails. As you all know, we have almost double that. Many of you have probably never worked with a land manager such as a county, but this type of flexibility is not normal.

I know many people see the new trails and want to start looking for more more more. Believe me, I have been there too. It is super important at this time to be appreciative of what we have and to be patient when it comes to future opportunities.

At this point I am inclined to think that MORC needs to show that it can maintain the trails we have before we start looking for more. While the crew has done some excellent work, we are still well behind on maintenance. With the traffic Lebanon gets it is getting to be more than a once a week chore to keep up with everything. If a few select individuals weren't out there doing "trail fairy" maintenance we would be even further behind.

Bottom line is that we all need to really appreciate what we have now and focus on keeping it maintained and safe. It is my hope that other trails in the area can provide some of the features Andy has listed here.

Ok... back to DRY trail conditions... ;)

[robc]

Just wanted to say I rode Leb for the first time since last year, and was really amazed at how much it has changed just since last season! The new bypasses are sweet, the new uphill logs in XX, the monster log pile, etc. You guys do an awesome job out there and it is very much appreciated!! Every time I ride there I like it a little more. Awesome work!

Now I can't wait to get out there for some of the fall night rides again. :banana:

-Rob

While Lebanon as it is today has taken many years to accomplish, I think Dakota County has been really great to work with. The original 10 year master plan for the park calls for only 5 miles of mountain bike trails. As you all know, we have almost double that. Many of you have probably never worked with a land manager such as a county, but this type of flexibility is not normal.

I know many people see the new trails and want to start looking for more more more. Believe me, I have been there too. It is super important at this time to be appreciative of what we have and to be patient when it comes to future opportunities.

At this point I am inclined to think that MORC needs to show that it can maintain the trails we have before we start looking for more. While the crew has done some excellent work, we are still well behind on maintenance. With the traffic Lebanon gets it is getting to be more than a once a week chore to keep up with everything. If a few select individuals weren't out there doing "trail fairy" maintenance we would be even further behind.

Bottom line is that we all need to really appreciate what we have now and focus on keeping it maintained and safe. It is my hope that other trails in the area can provide some of the features Andy has listed here.

Ok... back to DRY trail conditions... ;)

[gopherhockey]

.16" of rain just south of Leb today. Probably nothing to worry about for riding as the trail probably soaked it right up.

[Don Youngdahl]

Got caught in the brief heavy rains this morning at Leb. As we were pushing our bikes out on the XX loop, we got a chance to see proof of the developing unsustainability of the trail in a couple of places. One was just uphill of the series of logs which are just uphill of Ted's Log. At first glance, one would think the trail is just fine, as there is no real noticable cupping or erosion. But there was a well-defined 2 inch wide stream of water running down the center of the trail, with no water running off to the side. Without correction, that means only one thing - eventually an eroded trail.

Correcting developing problems like this when they are just starting requires moving far less dirt, and far less widening of the trail, than was necessary on the climb out of the dream trail. Those super-wide trail segments were necessary to establish outslope where the erosion was fairly deep.

Also had an encounter with a rider who was still riding, on the new bypass trail, who we met as we were bailing out via the ski trail. He didn't think it was too wet to ride, but I laid on a dose of guilt about responsible riding, ruining trails that volunteers worked so hard to build, etc. He decided to join us in bailing out, and he was cool about everything back in the lot.

John, if you see a tire mark or two on the ski trail or the hiking trail tonight, that was likely us.

Don Youngdahl

[Don Youngdahl]

.16" of rain just south of Leb today. Probably nothing to worry about for riding as the trail probably soaked it right up.

It most likely has dried well enough to make riding OK by now (2:45 PM), but it was really greasy & sloppy, with lots of small puddles, for a brief period.

Don Y

[Aberrix]

The trail was great this evening! (5pm) I really enjoyed the updated stuff from last night's trailwork session, it really kept me on my toes. Great work guys!

[bigwheel]

Thurs 7/13 8pm. Trail is still dry and dusty, but fun to ride. Around 9pm a storm moved through, but Leb got almost zero rain from it.

Be careful on the sharp turns where the crust is starting to break away on the outside of the turn.

[gopherhockey]

Looks like all told we got like .07" of rain around Leb. Not enough, but we'll take what we can get.

As Bob said, should be ok to ride and watch out for the slick corners. Rocks tend to come loose in this kind of conditions, so watch for that.

Love the new log pile into the XX!

BTW: around 9:45pm a large pickup drove into the lot and started spinning around in front of our cars. I don't know if the target was to spray us with rocks or if he was just messing around. Probably nothing, but doesn't hurt to keep a watch out for morons like this and report license plates to the Parks Patrol. (number is on the kiosk in the lot) We should all do what we can to protect the park and our belongings.

[crux]

Went out for an early morning ride and conditions were much improved even had some standing water in spots. Logs and rocks were a bit slippery, but that should be dry by now. Thinking of a late night ride starting around 8-8:30 any one interested in joining?

[ibismojo2001]

Maybe a late night ride tomorrow night or Sunday to avoid the heat. Don't think I will venture to the Red Wing race on Sunday. Too much suffering....

[tedsti]

She was bone dry this morning. The few spits of rain did not even phase the trail.

[gopherhockey]

Cough Cough... bone dry doesn't even hint at how dry it is out there.

Watch for a newly enhanced XX log pile. We have one more week of work on it, but it should ride just fine now. Watch for the rocks we added after the pile. The crew is making sure the "filter" going in is the hardest area to ride, hopefully discouraging those who should not venture in.

We need rain....

[Don Youngdahl]

..............The crew is making sure the "filter" going in is the hardest area to ride, hopefully discouraging those who should not venture in..............

If riders are unable to ride the qualifier & are content to walk their bike through that and the other hard obstacles without attempting unauthorized modifications, do you still want to keep them off the trail?

Don Youngdahl

[gopherhockey]

If riders are unable to ride the qualifier & are content to walk their bike through that and the other hard obstacles without attempting unauthorized modifications, do you still want to keep them off the trail?

Don Youngdahl

Well, the goal is to make the first obstacle the hardest. Someone can't complain half way through that they didn't know whats coming. We can't stop people from walking through the filter, but they can't say that we didn't warn them...

The filter, plus an improved sign (hopefully soon) should at least say that we've done our best to warn whats ahead.

[gopherhockey]

Getting some rain today. .7" so far just south of Leb. I'd guess it would be best to stay off until tomorrow as the dust on the trail is probably now slippery and muddy.

We needed this rain.. and hopefully we have more coming.

[crux]

Well, the goal is to make the first obstacle the hardest. Someone can't complain half way through that they didn't know whats coming. We can't stop people from walking through the filter, but they can't say that we didn't warn them...

The filter, plus an improved sign (hopefully soon) should at least say that we've done our best to warn whats ahead.

Well said. Think the improved entrance to the XX is really going to help grab the attention of some. Have had a few riders not even notice the fork in the trail there and get in well over their head.

Flow from X to XX is still the same just a larger log pile with a few added rocks after for good measure. We have our eye on a few more rocks to add in the trail as well.

[dopey048]

I've only been riding for about 14 months and I can make it through the XX with out tons of trouble. I have no shame in walking obstacles that I know I can't do or atleast know that I'm not on the beginner trail.

I agree with making the start of the XX trail hard so people get a good look that its not all sugar and spice ahead. You can never trust people to use common sense all the time. But if they have to phyiscally get off their bike it makes them aware.

Make it as hard as you like I'll only try harder :D

[trompete]

It's raining again in Burnsville (4 miles West of Leb). It should rain for another hour or so.

[bowmanmark]

Went out this Am before it started to rain it was dry and there were a few ruts in the trail that are getting bad. I found a great big rut looks like it was made from to much skiding, I could be wrong about that anyway i found it tha hard way and didn't see it in time and wipped out but luckly I was not going very fast and went down sideways and not over the top.
Hopefully after the rain the trail will get better.

[bigwheel]

If riders are unable to ride the qualifier & are content to walk their bike through that and the other hard obstacles without attempting unauthorized modifications, do you still want to keep them off the trail?

Absolutely not!, IMO. You should always be trying to ride stuff that is above your caliber. That's the way you become a better rider.

We don't want to keep people out. We just want to them to know what they are getting themselves into. If they are willing to walk their bikes over the qualifier, then they will also be willing to walk their bikes over other obstacles when necessary, rather than creating "sissy routes" around them.

[bigwheel]

We got about an inch of very-needed rain yesterday.

With the bright sunshine and nice breeze we have today, I'm guessing that the trail will be okay by mid-afternoon.

[Ish]

If anyone gets out to Leb this afternoon, post up the conditoins. I'd like to get out there tonight and try to hurt myself. Guessing it will be OK, but would like to validate.

[soupboy]

The new entrance to the XX is "tougher" than anything on that trail. For those running big rings look out for a "catch".

Absolutely not!, IMO. You should always be trying to ride stuff that is above your caliber. That's the way you become a better rider.

We don't want to keep people out. We just want to them to know what they are getting themselves into. If they are willing to walk their bikes over the qualifier, then they will also be willing to walk their bikes over other obstacles when necessary, rather than creating "sissy routes" around them.

[Mathias]

The Qualifier into the xx is whooing, compared to what it used to be I thought wow!!? Great idea. It gives people and even me the thought qualifier or trail closed. I had to take a practice shot first and then a cool off break, then I made it. what a freaking great feeling... the trails were perfect, nicely pact, smooth, what a ride ( Big Thanks to all who have taken care of this park).

[crux]

Anyone taken the left line on the first rock (First big rock in XX) drop as of yet?

Any thoughts as to how that line is stacking up compared to the right line?

[bigwheel]

Anyone taken the left line on the first rock (First big rock in XX) drop as of yet?

Any thoughts as to how that line is stacking up compared to the right line?

This is a hear-say report. I chickened out and took the right line, which is not much different than before.
Eric says that the far-left line is now easier than ever. (this was not our intent)
Ted says that the middle line is not do-able because you can't line up on the stepping stones after going around the tree.

Nobody had any problems with the log pile, other than a few hitting it with too much speed and catching some accidental air.

[tedsti]

The rock skinny line on the left is going to be a tough one. The front rocks are big enough that they really bounce you around. I tried riding it, but the first rocks bounced me off course. It will take a few more attempts for me or else some tweeking of the line. I want to give it a few more tries and bring out the FS bike before writing it off. That is unless others like it and are riding it.

[gopherhockey]

The trail was getting dry again last night. There were some sandy areas in lower spots due to run-off - watch out for these when they fully dry out. Trail was in the best condition it has been in a while.

[bikeoutback]

It was sprinkling when I drove in a bit before 9am and I've heard it's pouring on the north side of Eagan.... possibly more rain on the trail.

[ibismojo2001]

I just got off the trail at about 9:15 am this morning and it was in great shape, but it was starting to spritz a little. :banana:

[LightWeight]

No rain at Wescott and Hwy 149 and the skies are clearing. Anyone closer to the trail have a more precise rain report?

[bigwheel]

No rain at Wescott and Hwy 149 and the skies are clearing. Anyone closer to the trail have a more precise rain report?

North side of Eagan (494 and pilot knob) got almost zero rain. My guess is that Leb is okay to ride.

[dave t]

The rock skinny line on the left is going to be a tough one. The front rocks are big enough that they really bounce you around. I tried riding it, but the first rocks bounced me off course. It will take a few more attempts for me or else some tweeking of the line. I want to give it a few more tries and bring out the FS bike before writing it off. That is unless others like it and are riding it.

I would vote to leave it at least for a couple weeks so people have some time to try and figure it out. I haven't seen it yet but it sounds like there are 2 other lines for riders to choose from?
Is there a trail work on 8/1 or are all 5 tuesdays in august off?

[Don Youngdahl]

............. IMO. You should always be trying to ride stuff that is above your caliber. That's the way you become a better rider.


Sorry, but I take issue with the sentiment expressed by the word "should" in the quoted statement by my good friend Bob. Maybe some people are satisfied with their skill level, or due to circimstances like injury, age, physical limitations, etc, they have weighed the value of improving their skills versus the risk of injury (however slight), and decided to simply accept their limitations. Anything wrong with that?

It's great that MORC and its trail builders provide opportunities for riders to improve their obstacle riding skills, but it's an overstatement of MORC's educational mission to imply that riders should be tackling obstacles they can't handle. Almost all the riders out there except perhaps the racers could improve their cardiovascular fitness (certainly an admiraable self-improvement goal) by riding harder and steadier, with fewer breaks to be sociable or wait for others in the group. I don't see any push for riders to improve their fitness by hammering the trails harder. So why the big push to make us better obstacle riders?

That said, I'm not saying that MORC shouldn't build trails without difficult challenges, nor even that all challenges should have an easy line or bypass. But when there is plenty of room for a bypass that has existed without spoiling the esthetics of the trail, I simply don't understand the obsession with closing off bypasses that many riders evidently want. Doesn't MORC advocate providing riders what they want?

One disclaimer here - I don't do unauthorized work to make the trails easier. Simply put, I don't mess with other people's trails.

Don Youngdahl

[dave t]

I agree that it is a riders option to choose the level of risk to accept and not all bypasses around obstacles are bad.... but the section of trail being examined here now is the qualifier for the XX trail and in this case it should be tough and many or even most riders should have to work to get through it cleanly. It should make riders a bit nervous about what might lie ahead on this trail.

[Buck]

I rode the new qualifier and thought if f'n ROCKED!!!! :D :cool: :jumpy:

L8Rz
Buck

[Don Youngdahl]

I agree that it is a riders option to choose the level of risk to accept and not all bypasses around obstacles are bad.... but the section of trail being examined here now is the qualifier for the XX trail and in this case it should be tough and many or even most riders should have to work to get through it cleanly................

I agree that a bypass line makes no sense for the qualifier.

Don Youngdahl

[soupboy]

Does it make sense though for the qualifier to be more visually intimidating than any other part of the trail? I don't think so. I think it is perfectly acceptable to have more difficult obstacles mid-trail that have by-passes.

It's a bit of a bait and switch.

Like most things, once you ride it 'tis easy as pie but it certainly is not representative of the balance of the XX.

Regardless, big thanks to the Leb trail crew for keeping things phunky fresh.

[Buck]

Does it make sense though for the qualifier to be more visually intimidating than any other part of the trail? I don't think so. I think it is perfectly acceptable to have more difficult obstacles mid-trail that have by-passes.


And that is how I know you don't design trails.

That is exactly what a qualifier is supposed to do...intimidate...and make you think twice about what you are about to ride. Keep the advanced trail advanced, no more by-passes around stuff, if you can't do it either learn, walk the obstacles, or don't ride XX.

The Leb crew has been doing an awesome job keepin' up with progression and change with in the guidelines they have to follow, a trail that sees as much traffic as Leb should always be changing and offering more and harder challenges. John, Ted, Bob, and crew have been doing an outstanding job of that!

L8Rz
Buck'
PS: oh and so this is relevant, the trail was awesome today, I'll be back out tomorrow for some riding!

[bowmanmark]

I just keep trying harder each time I go and now I am getting beter at going over most things the I have not tryed the big log pile yet, but I am working my way up to it.
I just walk the parts I don't feel comfortable with yet.
Each time I go I try get better.

[crux]

And that is how I know you don't design trails.

That is exactly what a qualifier is supposed to do...intimidate...and make you think twice about what you are about to ride. Keep the advanced trail advanced, no more by-passes around stuff, if you can't do it either learn, walk the obstacles, or don't ride XX.

The Leb crew has been doing an awesome job keepin' up with progression and change with in the guidelines they have to follow, a trail that sees as much traffic as Leb should always be changing and offering more and harder challenges. John, Ted, Bob, and crew have been doing an outstanding job of that!

L8Rz
Buck'
PS: oh and so this is relevant, the trail was awesome today, I'll be back out tomorrow for some riding!

Tell us how you really feel...:D

Actually well put.

[soupboy]

...and that is exactly how I know you are a FOS toddler that drives around in a promotional vehicle.

So, every trail must be started with an obstacle more difficult than any other portion of the trail that exists past it?

BS sonny boy. How would you ever induce a newbie to doing something different?

As I clearly stated, I'm fully supportive of the Leb trail crew, even you, as misguided as you may be.

And that is how I know you don't design trails.

[Buck]

So, every trail must be started with an obstacle more difficult than any other portion of the trail that exists past it?

BS sonny boy. How would you ever induce a newbie to doing something different?


No I never said that. we are talking about the XX nothing more nothing less. The most "advanced section" of the trail system, as such it needs to have a qualifier that will intimidate riders. I myself don't see the new log pile any more challenging then the log pile in the outer loop. I also don't think there should be any kind of by-pass into the most advanced section. The newb will have to step up and PROGRESS to the level needed to get over the qualifier if they can get over the qualifier then they should be glad to know that they can handle the rest of the trail.

If ya really want to chat I plan on being out at LHs tomorrow at 11ish, look for a grey van and a big bike, that'll be me, let's ride, I would love to hear what you think about the trail design and how we could do it better out at LHs.

Thanks
L8Rz
Buck

[Magic]

No I never said that. we are talking about the XX nothing more nothing less. The most "advanced section" of the trail system, as such it needs to have a qualifier that will intimidate riders. I myself don't see the new log pile any more challenging then the log pile in the outer loop. I also don't think there should be any kind of by-pass into the most advanced section. The newb will have to step up and PROGRESS to the level needed to get over the qualifier if they can get over the qualifier then they should be glad to know that they can handle the rest of the trail.

If ya really want to chat I plan on being out at LHs tomorrow at 11ish, look for a grey van and a big bike, that'll be me, let's ride, I would love to hear what you think about the trail design and how we could do it better out at LHs.

Thanks
L8Rz
Buck

You just stay home and fix that big rig. We had a blast with ya and with out ya today. I got a flat on my second lap going into XX. That stopped my day short. We need to get out and ride some more, give me a shout when your going out. Sunday's don't work, I have hockey for 2+ hours and I also play on Thursday nights. But anytime else works. Let's get out before you head west again. Now back to the bickering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eyeroll:

[Buck]

You just stay home and fix that big rig. We had a blast with ya and with out ya today. I got a flat on my second lap going into XX. That stopped my day short. We need to get out and ride some more, give me a shout when your going out. Sunday's don't work, I have hockey for 2+ hours and I also play on Thursday nights. But anytime else works. Let's get out before you head west again. Now back to the bickering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eyeroll:


Meh, I'm going out tomorrow cuz I'm headed out of town on Tuesday. Crankworx here I come!!!!! :jumpy: :cool: Lame about the flat...was good riding with you and Greg, and we even saw Pete out on the big bike!!!!! It was so pinner today, nothing but speeeeeeed. :banana: :banana:

L8Rz
Buck

[Magic]

Meh, I'm going out tomorrow cuz I'm headed out of town on Tuesday. Crankworx here I come!!!!! :jumpy: :cool: Lame about the flat...was good riding with you and Greg, and we even saw Pete out on the big bike!!!!! It was so pinner today, nothing but speeeeeeed. :banana: :banana:

L8Rz
Buck

Phone me when you get back and we'll rip it up again. Maybe I'll have the Banshee up and running by the time we ride again and it will be big bike day at Leb again. Braaaaaaaaaaaaaap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:crazy2:

[FSSS]

Greg, Buck, Troy - great ridin' with you guys today!

Trail was dry, dusty, even sandy in spots... and fun as hell (as usual).

[stoneage]

That is exactly what a qualifier is supposed to do...intimidate...
I feel that a qualifier should educate, not intimidate. Like Sean said, how are you gonna get them to buy, if they don't come into the store. One of the biggest advantages a trail building organization has is the number of uses the facility provides. If Dakota County noticed a big drop in usage in a third of the Leb system, they would be less likely to approve of more trail being built. Limit your usage and you will limit your growth. I hadn't seen the new entrance to XX until yesterday, but I think it is overkill. I also think that there should be alternate routes for difficult sections. I ride everything in XX on a cross bike, but I wouldn't want to do any big jumping on it. They land a bit different than barcaloungers.:) Opening up more trail to more riders is going to benefit the program.

[timmy]

I thought this was the trail conditions thread???

[Ubergiant]

I rode this morning and I can't believe how bad some of the braking ruts are in the Dream section. Its real loose in some turns as well.

[gopherhockey]

I feel that a qualifier should educate, not intimidate.

The first obstacle should be the most difficult of all... that way a rider can't say they didn't know what they were in for. It should discourage lesser skilled riders from riding the trail. Doesn't mean they can't aspire to learn and use it to educate as well when they are ready. Trying to pick just one word for what a filter needs to do is a waste of time.

Lebanon already sees too many rider laps for a trail its size. Dakota County is not concerned about that dropping, nor are we. If a few less people ride because one or two obstacles are too tough for them thats just fine. We are well beyond keeping up with maintenance as a volunteer group and a little equalization while improving safety only makes for an even better trail and land manager relationship. We hope other great new trails around the area will also pull riders away. Nobody is afraid of that, and I'm sure all of you would just as well see a few more open parking spaces from time to time. ;)

As trail steward it is my role to make sure these types of changes are keeping the trail safe, challenging, while maintaining the relationship with the land manager. I can say for certain that we are on the right track with what we are doing.

Now, back to trail conditions... lets keep these discussions into other threads wherever possible.

[tedsti]

Trail Conditions - Dry, still dusty and fast, fast, fast.

[Buck]

Yeah just got back in from a couple laps... with Dave, Jeff and crew, and Maria and Meg.

Meg...whoa that was knarly crash, she almost did a back flip off the log pile in the outer loop. it was impressive!! hope the hip/azz feels better tomorrow!!!

Trails is fast as all hell and the corners are fun to glide!

L8Rz
Buck

[XT8500]

Conditions nearly perfect this afternoon. There is a logpile, about the third one in, on the XX that needs some repair. I believe it's missing a log or two.

On the XX qualifier, it is the toughest around, but it's well-made and a slow speed deal. I walked it at first, but finally learned how to ride it. It should slowly get beat down and become more do-able.

As Adam mentioned, there was a fearless gal that hit the big outer loop logpile at too high of a speed today...hope she's alright. That logpile is a bit easier than the XX qualifier and in great shape, but watch your speed! Coasting from the jump before it gives just the right amount of speed (unless you've got 8" of travel and want some air!) Who could that be.....

[ibismojo2001]

I KNOW we need it but I really want to ride tonight. Maybe it will be brief and clear up by 6:30.... Have the fingers crossed:jumpy:

[gopherhockey]

I KNOW we need it but I really want to ride tonight. Maybe it will be brief and clear up by 6:30.... Have the fingers crossed:jumpy:

Leb looks to get hit pretty good. Even if it clears up, I think it might be good to avoid the trail tonight... this depends on how much we get of course.

The trail needs the rain bad. We could use a few inches... just not all at one time.

[ibismojo2001]

The rain is there and is coming on. I live not too far away and my lawn needs it too. I guess I am on the road again tonight. Oh well, any ride is a good ride.

[gopherhockey]

A few new things to watch for at Leb:

1. We built and actual return path after the camelback so that people who want to re-ride can go back around without stamping down the area next to it. We junked up that area again and HOPE that nobody will remove that stuff.... now that there is a ride-around available there is no reason to screw around in the area immediately next to the obstacle.

2. We threw some water on the rotting logs in the log ladder that is after the camelback and what do you know - they grew! Yes, we have a few new logs in where the old ones were rotting out. Be prepared because they are just a little bit taller than the previous ones. We figure it will be good to keep people on their toes. Bob even carved MORC on the side of one with his chainsaw (which tells you how big it is).

3. Bob took care of a knot that was on one of the logs on the monster log pile. I wasn't there but I think a few people requested this as a safety issue.

4. We DID NOT "enhance" the log pile into the expert loop. We will leave it for now and address it later if necessary. Props to my wife Liz for calling me out on this one as something that wasn't all that necessary.

[Ubergiant]

I saw the new logs and they looked great! We didn't get any rain tonight at Leb so its still bone dry.
We almost drilled a couple of kids cutting in on the trail from the hairpin turn (before the climb) in Dream down to the off camber right hand turn. We explained how cutting trails ruins vegitation, gets all of us in trouble and most of all is dangerous in that particular spot.
I think Tim Palenty shouldn't send our Reserves to New Mexico to guard the border....we need em at Leb to arrest, detain and neutralize poachers, trail cutters and trail runners!
Its either that or have Chuck Norris roundhouse kick everyone cutting trails.

[ibismojo2001]

I rode LEB this morning and their is part of a tree, about 8 to 10" in diameter, on the trail just after the Galaxie walking trail entrance.

Other than the need of a saw, the trail was pretty dry and fast.

Get out and ride (but watch out for that tree) as it comes up pretty fast after the sweeping left turn.

G:crazy:

[buffalo66]

Rode LEB today around 5:30. It was really dry and really busy. Saw a lot of 4 man groups. Never saw anyone on the trail though. I must have great timing. Got pretty dusty.

[bowmanmark]

Wanted to ride leb this AM but the gate was locked for the parking lot.
Anyone know why?

[dopey048]

Mark
Park in the tennis lot just north of the Leb entrance. Its on the steet before the bike parking lot. I forget the name of the street but its a short ride to the normal lot.

On Sat and Sunday mornings I park there cuz the lots not open but I want to ride before it gets really hot.

[bigwheel]

Wanted to ride leb this AM but the gate was locked for the parking lot.
Anyone know why?

Nothing that I know about. My guess is that someone forgot to unlock it.

If the gate is locked, you can also park at the tennis courts off of Covington (just north of the lot), and ride across the soccer field to the trail head. Of course, don't do this if the gate is closed because the trail is wet/closed.

[bowmanmark]

Ok thanks I will keep that in mind for next time

[gopherhockey]

I took care of the tree that had fallen over the trail on the Galaxie side. Its all clear now.

One side note: if a tree or branch falls over the trail, PLEASE just get off your bike and walk over it, or around it. DO NOT do a trials-ride through the brush to get around it. That thing was down for under a week but a path already started to form around it - just like how people are trampling the area next to the camelback.

I can't think of any circumstances where anyone should be riding their bike off the trails that are built. If you have an injury or mechanical, walk it. Something falls in the way, walk it - or better yet, carry it. Thanks!!

[ibismojo2001]

Here here!!

Thanks.

I broke off a bunch of branches on the tree where all you had to do was pick up your bike and step over the tree but I see people are even lazier than I thought.:zzz:

Never ending battle but one that must be fought.


Stay cool

Gary

[Don Youngdahl]

One side note: if a tree or branch falls over the trail, PLEASE just get off your bike and walk over it, or around it. DO NOT do a trials-ride through the brush to get around it. That thing was down for under a week but a path already started to form around it - just like how people are trampling the area next to the camelback.

I can't think of any circumstances where anyone should be riding their bike off the trails that are built. If you have an injury or mechanical, walk it. Something falls in the way, walk it - or better yet, carry it. Thanks!!

This is good and proper advice for Leb, Battle Creek, Terrace Oaks, Salem Hills, and almost all the metro area trails except the River Bottoms. The River Bottoms is an ever-changing trail where windfalls and floods occasionally block the trail, and riders magically find and establish the best line through with minimum clearing work. That's one of the unique charms of that trail, and what helps provide some variation and, dare I say it, "flow", to an otherwise flat and tepid trail.

We just need to educate riders that you don't do those impromtu ride-arounds on the more intensely managed trails.

Don Youngdahl

[gopherhockey]

Trail was like powder as usual tonight.

Spoke to one of the Parks Parol Officers tonight in the lot. He was reminding everyone that Dakota wants to be sure people are out of the lot AND the trail by 10pm. Being in the lot or park is a fineable offense of no less than $100! (the same goes for riding on a closed trail, or riding a bike on a hiking trail etc.)

I told him I'd post this up as a reminder to everyone to stick to the hours that Dakota posts for the trails or any other location within Dakota County Parks. Lets not make the parks patrol have to fine anyone, or worse - haul some injured rider off the trail late at night.

Ride safe!

[syntaxjunkie]

things that suck: my riding

things that definitely don't suck: this trail

a little dry and dusty, to be sure. but more fun than a barrel of inebriated monkeys with a stash of class a fireworks.

ran into the prez and one of the black ops boys in the parking lot, about to make the return trip on their bataan death ride from south minneapolis. sprockethead did a lap with me, and didn't give me too much crap for talking myself out of the new logpile on the exit. did another lap and stopped to chat with rob and blake (shout-outs to nodak!), who bookended me through another run at the x loop, both missing the mockery i made of the rock garden. again.

didn't even try the xx today. the mojo was not working. my kung fu was no good. i had a little bit of uh-huh, but not a whole lot of oh yeah. left while all of the parts will still attached (to me and the bike) and no blood had been spilled.

let me say it again: i LOVE hot weather. long live sweaty rides.

[gopherhockey]

Around .35" of rain just south of Leb, and more on the way. Probably good to cancel any Tuesday riding, and possibly Wed. depending on how this turns out.

We need the rain, and the trail really needs the rain... this is a good thing.

[MJM]

I live just off the west Galaxie trail-head to the trails and we had 1/2 inch in our rain gauge this morning. I walked out onto the trail at 1130 this morning and the trail absorbed last night's rain pretty well (no puddles - shiny slippery surface), but then came this afternoon's rain. We added another 1/4 inch to the gauge. My guess is the trail needs a day to dry out. There is a fresh tree down across the trail just past the Galaxie trail-head that will take quite an effort to get around because of its width, the good news is, it's a short commute from Galaxie with a chain saw.

MJM

[gopherhockey]

There is a fresh tree down across the trail just past the Galaxie trail-head that will take quite an effort to get around because of its width, the good news is, it's a short commute from Galaxie with a chain saw.

I took one out last Friday, but it was just a part of a much larger Oak tree that was leaning over. Did you notice how big it was? If its the one I'm thinking of I don't know that my chainsaw will do the trick...

[dopey048]

I took one out last Friday, but it was just a part of a much larger Oak tree that was leaning over. Did you notice how big it was? If its the one I'm thinking of I don't know that my chainsaw will do the trick...

I gotta axe! :D

[gopherhockey]

I gotta axe! :D

Whoa now... not sure we need to get that crazy ;)

Boy do I love this rain! Looks like well over 1" so far and more on the way for Leb.

I wish it could continue a few more days. Might actually keep some of our rocks and rock gardens in place for a while longer...

I haven't seen the trail, but I'm guessing it would be good to avoid riding tomorrow (Wed). Its just a guess, but many times the slower rains make more of a mess than the quick hard rains do.

[MJM]

I wish that I'd payed closer attention to the size of the tree. I don't remeber it as being real wide in the trunk where it crossed the path. I think it was a thick branchy section that blocked the path. There was a set of skid marks right before it when I saw it this morning so someone had already encountered it on a bike. It's gotta be soaked in there by now.

MJM

[gopherhockey]

I'm reading 2.14" since midnight (just SE of Leb) on top of the 1"+ of yesterday.. can that be right? I hope so!

Please stay off the trail for a day.

We'll probably be working on the tree out there this evening so I hope we don't run into anyone...

[dave t]

I had 3" since around 5:00 last night. I'm south around 2 miles.

[dopey048]

We'll probably be working on the tree out there this evening so I hope we don't run into anyone...

If you do take a chain saw to them, then add them to the log piles!

[gopherhockey]

The tree/branch that was reported over on the Galaxie side is now gone...

Not many tracks on the trail from what I could tell. The intermediate looked pretty solid, but I can imagine the X has some damp spots.

[bigwheel]

Thanks, John!

What's your prognosis as to when it will be rideable again?

[gopherhockey]

Thanks, John!

What's your prognosis as to when it will be rideable again?

Tomorrow would be fine as far as I could tell. Maybe someone gambled and rode it tonight that could report on areas I didn't see. The X is what I'm most worried about. Worse case people could do outside laps even tonight I think.

[trompete]

Any riders yet today? Looking to ride at 5 PM.

[bigwheel]

Any riders yet today? Looking to ride at 5 PM.

I think it will be in decent shape by now. If not, please post something.

[gopherhockey]

I'm surprised nobody has posted up...

Trail is in really great condition. Tacky, no water standing at all. There are a few trees leaning over the trail and one down at the top of the last Dream climb - all are easily avoided.

As we sat in the lot we saw a lot of night riders coming out the hiking trail tonight... PLEASE don't do that!

[ibismojo2001]

Trail was in fantastic shape this morning. Tacky and fast!

[gopherhockey]

Got in a good night ride last night. Trail is still in great condition.

Just a few minor areas needing some maintenance - the Dram trail climb is kind of falling apart, and some of the turns on the new trail need to be shaped a bit so they aren't washing out.

Jan's Rock in the XX has a ride-around forming to the outside where people are skipping the rock and riding down in the dirt. I'm going to head out and fix that this weekend as it will be a major erosion spot if people keep on that line.

Quite a few rocks have come out of some of our rock gardens... we hope to address those when trail work starts back up again at the end of the month.

[gopherhockey]

Looks like a good dose of rain about to hit the area. By the looks of it, Sunday might not be the day to be riding Leb...

[yetirider]

The rain missed us entirely... any update on the trails there? Stay away or "come on down?" Thanks for the info!!!

[seberly]

update anyone???? A group of us were gonna head down.

[gopherhockey]

I'm reading .10" of rain just south of the trail. Might have rained more north of me tho.

It looks pretty wet outside my windows though... must be horribly humid or something.

If you are gonna ride, safe bet is to wait a few hours just in case. I suppose the trail is already full though...

[MJM]

I just (1030 am) walked into the trail off of Galaxie trail-head. The trail is in pretty good shape for riding in that vicinity. No puddles in the hollow spots, just a little mush on the top layer. I spoke to a couple of riders reporting “surprisingly good” conditions; however, they had not yet traveled the X or XX sections. Judging from the fresh tracks on the trail, there’s been plenty of traffic out there already this morning.
<o:p> </o:p>
MJM

[waitabit]

At noon the trail was in great shape, and the weather was awesome, I just hope Dan who broke his collarbone is alright, if you read this let us know.

[Guest1]

I still feel bad since I didn't stop to help him out.

Other then that great trail conditions yesterday.

[crux]

Who is up for riding tonight?

[gopherhockey]

I still feel bad since I didn't stop to help him out.

Other then that great trail conditions yesterday.

Where did this happen?

[waitabit]

Where did this happen?It was about the 4th or 5th log pile into the x loop, he was behind me and went down pretty hard, so we gave him a spare tube for a sling to walk out and it worked pretty good, just bad luck thats all, nothing to do with the trail.

[crux]

Any way to decrease the braking bumps on the trail? Know that we will still have riders who insist that locking them up and skidding one method of slowing down and that they are not hurting the trail that much. but this is getting a bit much, or I'm just getting to be an old coot.

[gopherhockey]

Any way to decrease the braking bumps on the trail? Know that we will still have riders who insist that locking them up and skidding one method of slowing down and that they are not hurting the trail that much. but this is getting a bit much, or I'm just getting to be an old coot.

We can certainly take a crew out there and dig em' up and smooth them out. It doesn't fix the problem long-term, but it does give slight relief. There have actually been a few areas that we did that too in the spring that have just now started to "bump up" again.

Maybe some cool damp weekend day in September or October we could address the worst areas on Dream I and Dream II.

[gopherhockey]

We had some sprinkles at Lebanon last night, but nothing to change the condition of the trail. Just enough to keep the dust down... Get out and ride!

[Guest1]

I am going to try to ride there this afternoon.

[crux]

Last night trail was tacky and fast. Get out and ride

[gopherhockey]

I will be doing some weed trimming (Sat. before noon) with a power trimmer in the area where the Dream Trail goes out into the open before it hits the beginner trail, and possibly some on the beginner trail.

Please use caution when approaching those areas. I will post a sign warning of trailwork as well.

[gopherhockey]

The area has been trimmed and a few other places have been fixed.

We have had a lot of trouble keeping people from cutting the Dream trail where it starts its last climb up. People are going down hill and entering where riders come through fast toward the bottom of the hill. This is not only destroying the hill, but is putting people in danger. I taped that area off and hung some signs for now as a real temporary fix.

Next year, or maybe even this fall, we plan to build a small optional route just before that hill starts so that people who don't feel they can make the last climb or that might have mechanical problems/injury will have an optional route. It is obvious people are requiring it because they just won't stop, so hopefully putting one in a safer place will avoid the continued trail damage in that area.

As always, stay on the trail - even if you get behind your group.

[gopherhockey]

Its pouring rain just south of Leb right now. Its been raining on and off up to this point as well, although I don't see any significant amounts shown on weatherbug yet.

I'd guess its going to be damp to wet this afternoon based on what I see out my window right now.

[Mountain Jam]

Are you thinking that it's not a good idea to ride anywhere today? I've got the itch to ride but I don't want to poach the trails.

[gopherhockey]

Are you thinking that it's not a good idea to ride anywhere today? I've got the itch to ride but I don't want to poach the trails.

Unsure of what happened around the metro. Looks like .15" to .25" in a short time down south. Might be over now, hard to tell.

At least cooler air is on the way.

[gopherhockey]

Trail should be in good condition today.

[nigel]

Trail was in great shape today, was just missing a full lot, where the heck was everyone today?!?!

[seberly]

At work retail boy.

[CadexCFM]

COnditions report from anyone one of those retail workers? I'm stopping by around 5 to check the weather...COME ON SUNSHINE

[tedsti]

With the long soaking rain, it is going to be wet until tomorrow. It should be good to go by tomorrow if we don't get any more rain.

[ibismojo2001]

Any report on the conditions at Leb this evening? I would like to ride at 8 am tomorrow morning but if it is wet I would hit the road.

Thanks!

[tedsti]

I stopped by after work and Dakota had the orange fences up.

[ibismojo2001]

Thanks. Any hope the fences will be down at 8 this morning?

Haven't ridden in over a week (injury) and anxious to ride the new SS.

Thanks:banana:

[ibismojo2001]

Went to LEB this morning at 8 am and walked in to scope out it out to determine how wet it was from yesterday mornings rain. The beginning trail was good to go except for the usual greasy corner toward the end. We decided to ride and the Intermediate trail was in great shape except for a puddle right after the jump. We continued to the X section and found that was in great shape too with one little puddle on the backside after the rock section. We did find a large branch from a fallen tree on Dream II just after the armoring. It took the three of us to move it aside.

In all, it was a great shape.

[bigwheel]

Were the fences still up?

[bigwheel]

Trail is okay to ride. Mostly tacky, but a few damp spots.

Get out and ride it now. If we get the expected rain tonight, it will likely be too wet to ride tomorrow.

[robc]

I was planning on riding tomorrow morning if there is no significant rain tonight. Can someone near the area post up ASAP in the morning whether or not there was rain? I am up in the northland, so its hard to tell what happened down there. Thanks a bundle to anyone who can let me know!

RobC

[gopherhockey]

Trail is in great condition.

Ted and I walked the trail Sunday for about 3.5 hours clearing face-slappers on about half the trail... getting it ready for night rides.

[RRWilso]

i was out at 7-11 this morning and had some serious fun. trail was in great condition, get out and ride!

[crux]

Trail is in great condition.

Ted and I walked the trail Sunday for about 3.5 hours clearing face-slappers on about half the trail... getting it ready for night rides.

Thanks guys

[gopherhockey]

Getting heavy rain just south of Leb. Looks to be quite a lot before its over. Best to stay off at least Wed. morning.

Almost 1" just a mile or so south of Leb.

[BKocka]

So is it a bad idea to ride leb tonight between 4 and 8? I ask because the Trek Fit for Woman Demo team is coming there tonight for the womans demo, and it would suck if the trail was too wet to rock a demo bike for free....

[dopey048]

So is it a bad idea to ride leb tonight between 4 and 8? I ask because the Trek Fit for Woman Demo team is coming there tonight for the womans demo, and it would suck if the trail was too wet to rock a demo bike for free....

Should be good by then.

[Guest1]

Last night was great, till the Shock on my bike snapped.:confused:

[crux]

Lots of rain last night and some high winds as well we could potentially have a tree or two down. Don't know if the trail will be dry enough by this evening all depends upon how the day goes, but leave the final call up to Gopher.

BTW what were you thinking up a 4:30 this morning.

[gopherhockey]

BTW what were you thinking up a 4:30 this morning.

Pacing around worrying about fallen trees and wet conditions at Leb ;)

[Digger]

Has anyone been out there yet? I am planning on heading out there between 4:00 and 5:00 if the trails are ok and if we don't get any more rain today.

[2BOutside]

anyone know if the fence is up/closed, or do you think it'll be dry enough to ride this evening...?

[gopherhockey]

anyone know if the fence is up/closed, or do you think it'll be dry enough to ride this evening...?

I'm guessing it will be ok. If we get more rain tonight, tomorrow will be bad. I'd say take a chance and head on out. When you get back, let us know.

I did the road thing today.. otherwise I'd have had more info.

[chiquito]

The trail was tacky, and had a couple of puddles.

[Digger]

Not too bad. XX was a little soft and the way out was a little soggy in 2 or 3 places. Only 2 very small trees down across the trail.

[gopherhockey]

Its been raining pretty good in Eagan today. I'd cancel all ride plans for Thursday... fences might even be up today considering the rain we got already this week.

[Ubergiant]

I just checked my rain gauge (one mile south of Leb) and I got 1/4 inch so far today.

[gopherhockey]

Its raining again south of Leb.... oh well, it will make it nice for working with rocks this fall to have some moisture out there.

[gopherhockey]

More rain after midnight. Picked up at least another .10" if not more.

I'd stay off until after work as long as we get some sun and wind.

[Ubergiant]

I just walked the first couple hundred yards of trail at the Johnny cake entrance. There were more than a few muddy spots and the people who rode through them today did a little damage. Looks too wet to ride.

[SPR]

Rode the trail today after trail school.
The trail was in great shape except for a large tree that fell across the XX loop. It's located after the last hill and rock garden towards the end of the XX exit. It will require a chainsaw to remove it.

[BKocka]

anybody know how the trail is this morining?

I knew there was a chance of rain last night, didnt know if it rained in eagan.

word.

[waitabit]

Trail should be good, I dont think it rained at all.

[jamesandruth]

We got 2.5 inches out west, anybody know how much Lebanon got yesterday/last night? Any chance it will be ridable this afternoon?

Also, does anybody know a good weather station nearby? Lakeville Airlake Airport has a wx station (http://www.crh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KLVN.html), but it does not seem to record precipitation

[jeffgude]

I live about 4 miles NW of Leb. Lots of rain overnight.

[Rocky Mountain]

If somebody who lives close to Leb could give a trail report for tomorrow Monday, Sept 4, that would be really appreciated.

I highly doubt it will be dry by tomorrow afternoon, but if we are lucky the wind will pick up overnight and its all good.

Found this weather station data from Apple Valley(1 mi. from ZOO) which shows they received .6" of rain today. I assume it has to be more. http://http://www.millerwx.com/wxflash/ (http://http//www.millerwx.com/wxflash/)


Thanks in Advance!
Jason

[crux]

Quite a bit of rain yesterday evening and overnight I would consider Leb closed today and most likely most of tomorrow as well.

If the sun comes out and winds pick up it will help speed the drying process, but for now if your itching for a ride looks like the road has it.

[jeffgude]

If somebody who lives close to Leb could give a trail report for tomorrow Monday, Sept 4, that would be really appreciated.

I highly doubt it will be dry by tomorrow afternoon, but if we are lucky the wind will pick up overnight and its all good.

Found this weather station data from Apple Valley(1 mi. from ZOO) which shows they received .6" of rain today. I assume it has to be more. http://http://www.millerwx.com/wxflash/ (http://http//www.millerwx.com/wxflash/)


Thanks in Advance!
Jason

We had a lot of rain in the south metro, nearly all day on Sunday. There's no way Leb would be rideable today.

[dave t]

I've been on vacation since last sunday so I don't know for sure when it all fell but I dumped 1.5 inches out of my rain bucket. I'm around 2 miles south.

I'm planning to ride by and check it out and if it's too wet I have some sub Urban stuff I have been thinking about trying for awhile now.

[crux]

Checked it out just before noon and trail is way to wet to ride.

Was considering hiking some of the trails and pulling some rocks for the new section, but figured that I'd wait a bit.

[ibismojo2001]

Just went and grabbed some coffee and drove over to LEB. There were about 6 cars in the lot, but no one in the lot to ask about the conditions.

If it is too wet I will hit the road tonight

[Danimal]

Leb is too wet by my standards, should be good-to-go tomorrow though.

[gopherhockey]

Leb is good to go. Slightly damp to tacky.

[gopherhockey]

Just a reminder that sections of the trail are often changed/modified at our weekly trailwork sessions. Riders should never assume the trail will be the same from one ride to another (or one lap to another for that matter). Always stay alert out there and be ready for these types of changes - both man made and done by nature.

Reading the Leb trailwork thread will give good insight on what is planned or what has been done.

This week the logs on the last downhill of the XX exit were replaced and a few rocks were adjusted in that area. A new rock jump was also added near the XX entrance - be ready for it - should make for nice air, but realize there is a turn nearby so keep things under control.

[soupboy]

Stop making fun of Shad.

Slightly damp to tacky.

[ebrandel]

Also, does anybody know a good weather station nearby? Lakeville Airlake Airport has a wx station (http://www.crh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KLVN.html), but it does not seem to record precipitation

Since I work for the company that gathers the weather data from that AWOS and manufactures the parts for it, I figure I might as well chime in.

That station is an AWOS (an Automated Weather Observation Station). It doesn't (currently) record accumulated percipitation, it just provides percipitation identification. Some AWOS's are equiped to provide that type of data, but this one isn't. Other systems called ASOS's (Automated Surface Observation Systems) also record that data. These are typically maintained at larger airports (like MSP) and other locations by the FAA and/or the NWS/NOAA and are much more complex and costly.

We're actually fairly lucky in Minnesota. We probably has the best AWOS network of any state in the country (and that means the best coverage of any place in the world). We currently has around 74 or so airports with AWOSs that are maintained by the state and that have their weather data gathered every 20 minutes. If you like how Paul Douglas or whatever weatherman you watch can pull up all those temperatures and weather information for all of those cities, you have your state government to thank, specifically MNDOT (well, them and my coworkers :p).

If you want super up to date information you can actually call these stations and they will speak the weather information. This data is at most a minute old. Here's a good list with their phone numbers and locations:
http://www.faa.gov/asos/map/MN.cfm

[gopherhockey]

At a very simple level (in regard to weather) I use weatherbug and set it to check the conditions at the Shannon Park Elementary School. Its SE of Leb and only blocks from my home, but has been a fairly good indicator of conditions at Leb. Only a few times has it been off by any significance.

Weatherbug isn't a fun tool to use when checking out conditions in different areas because you have to change your location, but it does give good precip readouts real-time.

[biking_stickman]

I find the weather rock to be most accurate. Can we get one for Leb?

http://www.ssa.org/UsTeam/images/camps/weather-rock-web.jpg

[gopherhockey]

I like the weather rock idea... nice!

Oh, and in case anyone hasn't seen - Dakota got the first few feet of the parking lot paved to remove those huge holes that would form in that location. There are no plans to pave the entire lot, as the lot is eventually supposed to move to the south... (but no immediate plans to do that either) but what they did was a nice temporary fix.

Also, because people still can't seem to keep from cutting the trail on the last Dream Trail climb (they cut down to the trail below, right where riders come downhill around a blind corner and are creating erosion issues) we will be donig a more permanent easy-route bypass in that area. Hopefully people will use their heads and use that instead of busting down our signs and cutting. If that doesn't work, we'll close the entire hill.... so if you see people cutting there YELL AT THEM :D We risk losing a very nice section of trail just because a few people can't or won't stay on the trail.

[trompete]

we will be donig a more permanent easy-route bypass in that area. Hopefully people will use their heads and use that instead of busting down our signs and cutting. If that doesn't work, we'll close the entire hill.... so if you see people cutting there YELL AT THEM :D We risk losing a very nice section of trail just because a few people can't or won't stay on the trail.


Just got back from a lunch ride. I saw all the new signage and ribbon. *sigh*. people suck. Have you considered pun-jap sticks?

[gopherhockey]

Just got back from a lunch ride. I saw all the new signage and ribbon. *sigh*. people suck. Have you considered pun-jap sticks?

In my mind... yes... there would be aweful horrible consequences and we would see dried out corpses in that area warning people to avoid cutting trails. ;)

Now planting some random poison ivy or other nastyness isn't beyond reason I don't think.... and there certainly won't be any warning signs about it if it were to happen. :p

[crux]

Also, because people still can't seem to keep from cutting the trail on the last Dream Trail climb (they cut down to the trail below, right where riders come downhill around a blind corner and are creating erosion issues)

Time to place a huge berm / rocks / trees / posion ivy as extra motovation to keep the tards on the trail. Thorn bushes would also work.

[gopherhockey]

posion ivy as extra motovation to keep the tards on the trail. Thorn bushes would also work.

Its scary that we are thinking alike for this solution ;)

[dave t]

Time to place a huge berm / rocks / trees / posion ivy as extra motovation to keep the tards on the trail. Thorn bushes would also work.

Never underestimate the tard.
He does not know enough to stay on the trail and also does not know enough to stop looking for a way around what blocks his way. His persistence has no limit. Once he knows where his goal lies, he will not stop.......ever.

Plain and simple, these tards don't want to climb the hill and they know the trail beyond the hill is right there. All you can do is give in and build a bypass or surround the whole trail within 1000 feet in both directions with 8 ft razor wire fence.

[bikeoutback]

I'm not sure why you would go mountain biking to skip a hill??? If I wanted easy riding why not just ride the miles of open pavement around my house? Or better yet go use a trail like Salem that is a great trail in it's own way and is slightly flatter. I guess I have a hard time understanding why go mountain biking just to take short cuts, walk you bike up the darn hill like the rest of us slow out of shape bikers, I'll join ya, you can easily find me, I'm the out of shape guy giving it hell till I get half way up those long climbs (long for me;) ) and walking the rest of the climb!!!!

[crux]

The Tard / Dee Dee Dee part two.

Understand that lazy will find a way down the hill regardless, but we can do ur best to make it not as attractive.

Had a second thought (Know that is a scary thing) of installing a wheel suck, better know as an manditory endo. Place a few rocks / trees idealy situated for those who ride this to have their front wheel sucked in caught and down they go. Know that this is not nice, but after all the hard work that has been done on the trail it tragic that anyone would want to cut the trail.

Know the the most likely solution will be a by pass and we will require some signage informing all.

Sign should read

<- Trail
Wimp ->

(best attempt to keep this somewhat PC)

[gopherhockey]

.

Had a second thought (Know that is a scary thing) of installing a wheel suck, better know as an manditory endo. Place a few rocks / trees idealy situated for those who ride this to have their front wheel sucked in caught and down they go. Know that this is not nice, but after all the hard work that has been done on the trail it tragic that anyone would want to cut the trail.

I'm fairly sure these people aren't actually riding down the hill. We want to keep from digging into the hill to avoid further erosion.

We'll build a ride around and that *should* fix it.

Until then we just all need to be on the lookout for these individuals and help educate each other.

[dave t]

but we can do ur best to make it not as attractive.

.........

Sign should read

<- Trail
Wimp ->



"Not as attractive" is kind of the point in this case. The giant nest of brush and police tape just looks like crap and doesn't do the job anyway. That area is too wide open to seal up any tard leakage. There just isn't any one path to barricade. It is frustrating but, like the braking bumps, it is just something you have to live with. You can't stop the tards but you should be able to control them pretty easily. Remember they aren't to bright.

I like the sign content.

Why is it that in biking, the tards don't wear the helmets?

[gopherhockey]

You can't stop the tards but you should be able to control them pretty easily. Remember they aren't to bright.


Remember playing lemmings? Its a lot like that.. ;)

[Mountain Jam]

That game was awesome! I love the sound they make when they blow up! Rode last night trail was great, like the new reroute.

[crux]

Why is it that in biking, the tards don't wear the helmets?

Why pay for insurance when it out values the thing that your attempting to protect?

[Ish]

Why pay for insurance when it out values the thing that your attempting to protect?

Shouldn't we be allowed to harvest their organs if they crash sans helmet? Although, clearly no one would want the brain......

[Paul Swenson]

Shouldn't we be allowed to harvest their organs if they crash sans helmet? Although, clearly no one would want the brain......

I wouldn't count on that. Someone is always looking for an Abby Normal brain.

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/4159/igor.jpg

[dave t]

Remember playing lemmings? Its a lot like that.. ;)


:jumpy: :jumpy:

I was thinking the exact same thing. Just make them a path and lead the little idiots home

[gopherhockey]

As posted elsewhere, there is a BIG tree down on the Dream Trail (fast downhill just after the coblestone area and before the last climb up).

I hope to get out there today and take care of this, but I'm not sure what time... early afternoon most likely.

This tree will SNEAK UP ON YOU if you are not careful. Its sitting up high enough where you won't hop over it.

PLEASE don't slam on the brakes (unless of course you have to in order to save your kneck). Ride safe, take care in this area... ALWAYS be prepared for the unexpected, be it MORC built or placed by mother nature.

BTW: To those that keep putting the "Nine Pound Killer" stickers in the porta-pot in the lot - KNOCK IT OFF. Sorry, but your group is just not that good. (if I had to guess, these individuals are some of our lemmings..)

[bowmanmark]

Going to go out and ride today hope that the weather holds.
Any word on what time the demo rides start?

[gopherhockey]

Going to go out and ride today hope that the weather holds.
Any word on what time the demo rides start?

10am to 3pm.

If it rains, they are usually good about not riding the trail... hopefully we won't get enough to be concerned with. We did get .01" this morning.

[crux]

What Demo?

[gopherhockey]

What Demo?

Check the calendar.

[LightWeight]

Also, because people still can't seem to keep from cutting the trail on the last Dream Trail climb (they cut down to the trail below, right where riders come downhill around a blind corner and are creating erosion issues) we will be donig a more permanent easy-route bypass in that area. Hopefully people will use their heads and use that instead of busting down our signs and cutting. If that doesn't work, we'll close the entire hill.... so if you see people cutting there YELL AT THEM :D We risk losing a very nice section of trail just because a few people can't or won't stay on the trail.

You could always put one of these in the way...

http://www.garnersclassics.com/pics/vacat/marty_1.jpg

Actually, you should put one of these at the trailhead and have a recorded message if the trail is open or closed that day...

[trompete]

Could you guys split the thread please?

[gopherhockey]

Yup, back to trail conditions.

I'll be going out to remove the big tree sometime this afternoon/evening or at the very latest tomorrow morning. I'll post up when its done - until then, beware.

Trail should be in great condition, but I'd get a ride in soon in case it rains all weekend. Looks like fall is coming.

[dave t]

You could always put one of these in the way...

(Clark & Morty removed)

Actually, you should put one of these at the trailhead and have a recorded message if the trail is open or closed that day...

:jumpy: :jumpy: :jumpy:

Way to funny but do we really want somebody