Trail Conditions in Detail - Lebanon Hills

[tedsti]

The trail was in great shape last night. The leaves are starting to get thick in a couple of areas. I was able to get some riding in with the man, the legend, the Lundellizer!!!

Ted

[gopherhockey]

The trail was in great shape last night. The leaves are starting to get thick in a couple of areas. I was able to get some riding in with the man, the legend, the Lundellizer!!!

Ted
It was a great night to ride for sure. Leaves were indeed piling up, but we're still in good shape for riding. Now is the time to get out there if you love the crunchy (or sometimes slippery) stuff under your wheels. Just be careful for rocks and roots that tend to hide in there.

Oh, and the pleasure was mine - thanks for letting me tag along! Night riding is fun, but doing it with others is even better.

[nigel]

Hows Leb today? Is it still wet, sposed to ride there around 3ish if its decent conditions. Someone post up please! Then if its nice come ride with us :)

D

[MJM]

Just got off the trail on foot and talked to some riders that were finishing their ride. They said the trail is in good shape, a little muddy near the 2 new bridges, but they had no mud on bikes or legs. Should be a good day for riding.

[gopherhockey]

Hows Leb today? Is it still wet, sposed to ride there around 3ish if its decent conditions. Someone post up please! Then if its nice come ride with us :)

D
I was thinking about getting back on the road bike today... but if things are not wet out there and people are riding... hmmm.... is this a group ride?

[bigwheel]

I was thinking about getting back on the road bike today... but if things are not wet out there and people are riding... hmmm.... is this a group ride?
I have a few more hours of yard work, but plan to ride leb this afternoon or evening. Maybe 5 or 6pm?? 4pm would be about the earliest I can make it.

[pwpatton]

Bob, I can meet you out there at 4:15-30. You interested?

[nigel]

Sprry about not riding guys, those that called me ect.... i was at Terrace doing a few things http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?p=99368#post99368

D

[gopherhockey]

Its pouring rain right now in the south metro... and I mean pouring! I'd stay out of Lebanon until we get some sun and wind. It was already boardering on too wet last night when we were finishing the night ride.

[transplant]

Oh $&*@*, it @($&%)@ figures. Sorry 'bout that, but I was really hoping to ride tomorrow PM. Maybe Sunday AM will present a golden opportunity.

[gopherhockey]

The trail is actually kind of damp in spots. The beginner trail is not in good condition right now. Its not like its totally wet and muddy, but there are a lot of soft spots and water areas that aren't draining. The trail does strange things when its colder... and the leaves aren't allowing the water to run off in some areas.

The two dream trails are in decent shape.

The X loop is kinda damp too. It was more tacky our first lap through, but the second almost seemed wet. The structures are dry, but the log piles were a little slippery, as are rocks and hidden roots.

The XX is in good shape.

[Tim Wegner]

Hey trail boss---don't ya know that you are supposed to stay off the trails when they are wet!!!!!

TW

[gopherhockey]

Hey trail boss---don't ya know that you are supposed to stay off the trails when they are wet!!!!!

TW
;) It was definitely on the boarder. Some were saying tacky, some damp. I don't think ruts are forming at all, but the beginner trail had people riding around wet spots and widening the trail which is causing damage.

I was happy to hear everyone riding straight through any wet spots tonight instead of around them.

[transplant]

Are there any particular times we have to worry about hunters? I know it's somewhere here in the forums, but I'm too lazy to look. I'd like to go out tomorrow about 8-9:00. Isn't there a ban until noon, or is it fair game (pun intended) when the park opens?

[gopherhockey]

Are there any particular times we have to worry about hunters? I know it's somewhere here in the forums, but I'm too lazy to look. I'd like to go out tomorrow about 8-9:00. Isn't there a ban until noon, or is it fair game (pun intended) when the park opens?
Monday through Wed. you can't ride until after noon. All other days appear to be open.

[gopherhockey]

Well, I spent the day doing the ever controvercial leaf removal today at Lebanon. Worked from 10am to 4:30pm straight... Ted Wiegandt was out for a few hours helping as well - thanks Ted!

I realize not everyone likes this practice, but after seeing what the conditions were under the leaves I'm confident it was (once again) the right thing to do. No real reason to debate it anymore - at least not for Lebanon.

The only unfortunate thing is that there were a lot of riders out there and so I was always in the way. I did my best to get out of the way quickly when someone came upon me - and I walked backwards always so I could see people coming.

Most riders were very happy and appreciative, and I thank everyone who rode by with a thumbs up or a "thank you" or a wave... only maybe one or two looked less than pleased - one actually almost running me over a few times. (looking at the recent posts tonight, I guess I know who that was..)

Anyway, thanks everyone for putting up with some leaves and dust today if you were out there. I appreciated seeing all the smiling faces out there today - what a great day, what a huge group of riders.

Beware that it was slightly wet under some places - so the trail may turn tacky as those areas dry up.

[FSSS]

Monday through Wed. you can't ride until after noon. All other days appear to be open.
Hopefully tonight's outspoken poacher will go for a ride this Monday morning. :crazy2:

[nil821]

I was at river bottoms yesterday (Friday the 5th) and saw a hunter heading down. Talked to him a bit and told him where I saw some does (always good to build a good reputation with those who might accidentially shoot you). Overall I am not too worried about hunters as I am a hunter myself, and hunters in urban areas know they are in an urban area that is multi use so they should be more carefull then rural hunters. I saw a guy at Leb today with orange tape on his bike and body, not a bad idea.



Are there any particular times we have to worry about hunters? I know it's somewhere here in the forums, but I'm too lazy to look. I'd like to go out tomorrow about 8-9:00. Isn't there a ban until noon, or is it fair game (pun intended) when the park opens?

[ryno lite]

Thanks for all the work John! Trail was drying very quickly after you removed the leaves. Having ridden it lately with dry or wet leaves on it, I was happy to be on a leaf free trail again, plus the trail is already drying out and looking much better. I always feel a little guilty having fun when someone else is working though.

[funky-funky-chicken]

Well, I spent the day doing the ever controvercial leaf removal today at Lebanon. Worked from 10am to 4:30pm straight... Ted Wiegandt was out for a few hours helping as well - thanks Ted!

I realize not everyone likes this practice, but after seeing what the conditions were under the leaves I'm confident it was (once again) the right thing to do. No real reason to debate it anymore - at least not for Lebanon.

The only unfortunate thing is that there were a lot of riders out there and so I was always in the way. I did my best to get out of the way quickly when someone came upon me - and I walked backwards always so I could see people coming.

Most riders were very happy and appreciative, and I thank everyone who rode by with a thumbs up or a "thank you" or a wave... only maybe one or two looked less than pleased - one actually almost running me over a few times. (looking at the recent posts tonight, I guess I know who that was..)

Anyway, thanks everyone for putting up with some leaves and dust today if you were out there. I appreciated seeing all the smiling faces out there today - what a great day, what a huge group of riders.

Beware that it was slightly wet under some places - so the trail may turn tacky as those areas dry up.
Thank you John and Ted. I was out on Saturday on the fixie riding for a couple of hours before having to go home and clean up the leaves in my own back yard. Riding while there is someone working makes me feel a bit guilty. What an improvement without the leaves. I rode through some of the same areas before and after leaf removal. No doubt that getting the leaves off the path is an improvement. Thanks again John and Ted... Nice work.

[tedsti]

Well, I spent the day doing the ever controvercial leaf removal today at Lebanon. Worked from 10am to 4:30pm straight... Ted Wiegandt was out for a few hours helping as well - thanks Ted!

No problem, just doing my part. I didn't know how long you were planning on staying, or I would have stayed longer. I didn't want you waiting in the parking lot going "Where the heck is Ted?!?" The leaves were definitely getting mashed into the trail in areas and keeping everything wet. The leaf blower was having trouble in areas, so I had to kind of break things up with my feet and then blow it off the trail. Plus, you don't realize how deep the leaves are when you are riding the trail.

Everyone who passed me was very appreciative.

Ted

[bigwheel]

I rode it yesterday and could see spots where the leaves had already been laying for too long and starting to rot. I don't know what mushy peat moss on top of the dirt does, but my guess is it that is not good - especially given the amount of effort that we use to scrape that junk off the top when building the trail.

Anyway, it looks and rides nice. Thanks, guys.

[ryno lite]

Thanks for all the work John! Trail was drying very quickly after you removed the leaves. Having ridden it lately with dry or wet leaves on it, I was happy to be on a leaf free trail again, plus the trail is already drying out and looking much better. I always feel a little guilty having fun when someone else is working though.
Sorry I left you out Ted! Great job! Can't give John all the credit!

[dave t]

I got in a lap this afternoon just before dark and the trail is in awesome shape. nice and grippy through the corners. I think the blowers even get rid of the loose stuff that can make the trail sketchy. I haven't been on my bike since before the leaves were thick on the trail but I'm a big fan of the way it is now. If you want to slide around, just wait til we get 3 or 4 inches of snow and let the fun begin. I'd rather know I will be sliding around than be blind-sided by slimey leaves.

[gopherhockey]

Last night the teeter had moved considerably from its original resting place. Its stayed pretty solid all summer but now its bouncing around. Please note this as you come up too it - if its shifted around it can become a little more tricky if not dangerous to ride, depending... We are going to be doing some maintenance to the teeter before the 2005 season starts.

Some of the turns at Leb have ruts in them from riders that had been out there when it was wet. I'm noticing these are starting to get bigger now. If you take a corner fast watch yourself on these. We'll get out and fix these spots in the spring.

Dakota accidentally removed the trail closed sign on the old luge trail (just to the right of the Expert loop entrance). There is still a pile of logs blocking the way, but it is less obvious that it is closed. DO NOT ride this trail. We did a lot of work to re-claim this area... and its full of logs, not to mention stakes that were used to hold straw matting in place. You would be hurting the trail and yourself to get on this section of trail. We will address this as soon as possible to avoid any confusion.

[dave t]

I thought it was pointed differently butit had been so long since i was out that i didn't comment on it.

[gopherhockey]

At the request of Dakota County I just got back from putting up new orange fence accross where the old luge trail used to start... that should once again close it until Dakota can get back in there and put up something more permanent.

Looks like they have the ski trails cleared off and ready to open...

[soupboy]

...already thawing and making things pretty sloppy, particularly in the X section. XX had a couple spots but not too bad. The last section (Dream? - the fast downhill part) was remarkably dry despite it's relative newness...must get more sun and/or drain better. Was almost spring-like in some respects.

Freeze and keep frozen - just don't snow yet!

Sean

[ryno lite]

Yep, that damn frost is coming back. I love the nice weather, but I like it either dry or completely frozen. Sure was a great day for a ride though. Must be the season, I saw evidence of frost at Theo and Leb this weekend and my brother saw alot at Rebecca this weekend. Hopefully it won't be much of a problem, cause I'd like to ride until way into December if at all possible!

[dave t]

Once the ground freezes and the snow eventually comes, is the trail going to remain open throughout the winter and just close when the thaw begins? I know it depends on wheather the trail is even passable but with a bit of packing (snowshoes or just walking) or regular use, we could keep riding all winter now that we don't share the ski trails.

Is there an official stand on winter trail use?

[gopherhockey]

Is there an official stand on winter trail use?I don't know that there is anything official on this as of yet. In the past we closed it down December 1, but people still rode. (although closed, there were no fences put up until spring got closer)

I know we share a lot less common trail this year... but there are still 2 sections where we do more than cross their trail. I'll ask and see if something has been defined or needs too. This year might be a wait and see type of thing.

However - once the ski trails open up and we lose some of our orange fencing, it will only take one bike going down the wrong hill to close it all down for us. Hopefully those riding out there this late in the year know where to go and where not too.

[tedsti]

Just got back from a ride. Some areas are really dry and a few areas are excessively tacky, not quite mushy, just excessively tacky.


Ted

[stoneage]

Just got back from a ride. Some areas are really dry and a few areas are excessively tacky, not quite mushy, just excessively tacky.


Ted
Umhhh....Cher and Dolly Parton are excessively tacky, also!!!

[MJM]

I just walked out onto the trail at the Galaxie entrance just prior to noon today to see if conditions were suitable for riding. The trails are wet and the top layer is soft. I saw no fresh tire tracks to see what kind of footprint would be made. Pushing down and shoving forward with my foot created a slide mark in the slippery top layer. Based on what I saw, I'm staying off the trails today to give them more time to dry up.

[Yammer]

How likely is it that the trail will be rideable on Sunday?

pk

[gopherhockey]

I just walked out onto the trail at the Galaxie entrance just prior to noon today to see if conditions were suitable for riding. The trails are wet and the top layer is soft. I saw no fresh tire tracks to see what kind of footprint would be made. Pushing down and shoving forward with my foot created a slide mark in the slippery top layer. Based on what I saw, I'm staying off the trails today to give them more time to dry up.
I love reading updates like this. Thanks! Great to see people caring for the trails like this. :D

[gopherhockey]

How likely is it that the trail will be rideable on Sunday?

pk
Looks like it froze last night. If we were to get some sun and wind it might be ok by late day. This cold weather and freezing conditions dont allow the trail to firm up like it could in the summer. It can get to be almost like spring conditions at this time of year.

We need it to freeze and stay frozen.

[dave t]

Does anyone know what the conditions are after the weekend?

[funky-funky-chicken]

I was there yesterday afternoon around 2:30-3pm or so. I took one lap and it was too wet for me to ride any more in good conscience. The exit through the beginner section was about the worst. With the freeze overnight, defrost in the day cycle, I would suspect the trails have not improved much.

I'm hanging up the mountain bike for a while and sticking to the roads.

[flea]

As of 1 pm today I would call it 85% dry, the remainder tacky. The winds must have helped. I saw four people riding.

[bigwheel]

Rode last night with Ted and John. The outer loop was in good condition. The low part early in the X was tacky, but rideable. Same with the beginner loop. XX was in good shape.

So, there are some tacky spots, but no puddles.

[gopherhockey]

Yup, it was definitely tacky. Toward the end of the ride it seemed to start to get more damp in places. Tires weren't really picking up anything, but you could hear it was damp... we rode slow. Its like the trail has a mind of its own and can change one hour to the next.

[MJM]

I rode tonight (11/23) around 4pm. The trails are in good shape. Only two very small puddles in the exit among the pine trees.

[bigwheel]

Don't tell my evil corporate a-hole boss, but I just snuck out for a leisurely ride at sunny leb. There were several tacky spots where the sun had a chance to warm up the trail. Otherwise, it was in good shape.

Having not ridden in the daylight lately, I hadn't noticed the pile of logs on the side of the dream-2, after the double-jump. (Maybe I need brighter lights.) Is there a plan to do something with them this season?

[gopherhockey]

Don't tell my evil corporate a-hole boss, but I just snuck out for a leisurely ride at sunny leb. There were several tacky spots where the sun had a chance to warm up the trail. Otherwise, it was in good shape.

Having not ridden in the daylight lately, I hadn't noticed the pile of logs on the side of the dream-2, after the double-jump. (Maybe I need brighter lights.) Is there a plan to do something with them this season?
I'm not aware of a log pile, but we could use some logs in that area... maybe they are left over from the trail build but show up now that the trees are bare.

There are a ton of rocks I've spotted recently just off the trail in certain areas as well... will have to get em' before spring.

[mtnbykr]

Its like the trail has a mind of its own and can change one hour to the next.
can i use this?? it's simply friggin' great. :?)

kl

[bigwheel]

I'm not aware of a log pile, but we could use some logs in that area... maybe they are left over from the trail build but show up now that the trees are bare.

There are a ton of rocks I've spotted recently just off the trail in certain areas as well... will have to get em' before spring.
Maybe the word "pile" is an overstatement. I only caught a glimpse of them. There looked to be about 4 of them, probably 5-inch diameter, looking neatly cut with a chainsaw. They are located near the single log crossing after the double jump.

[Tim Wegner]

That is the remnants of a big old Oak tree that we had to cut when we first built the trail. I believe that it was a fairly solid log without any rot in it. It should be debarked so John can use it in making his "mother of all log piles" next year. His log pile will be built in a yet to be disclosed spot and his claim is that he will make it be a total of 10' tall!!!!! Can't wait to see it.

TW

[syntaxjunkie]

Rumor has it that this will be a "tsunami of death" log pile, in which the angle at the apex is actually greater than 90 degrees. It's an idea that John's been toying with for awhile.

[Tim Wegner]

Actually I heard that he was thinking about making it kind of like the double jump that we built this fall. I wonder what the gap will be and how he will design it so enough speed can be achieved to clear the gap. Actually I heard that he wanted the gap to be something like 6-7 feet. Anyone heard other numbers. Just imagine two 10+ foot tall pile of logs with a 5-7 foot gap in between and built somwhere you could get enough speed to clear the gap!!! Sounds like adam might pee his pants to get a chance at this one!

TW

[soupboy]

...frozen trail me hurtee more than non-frozen trail.

Leb was great this AM - saw a few other riders. I happened to find the one spot on the entire trail that didn't have sandpaper-like grip.

Then I landed on the sandpaper-like grip. Ouch.

Get out if you can today before the sun thaws anything. Fast and furious.

Sean

[gopherhockey]

Raining now... prolly pretty wet out there now. Its going to take longer to dry out this time of year.

[socrates]

Raining now... prolly pretty wet out there now. Its going to take longer to dry out this time of year.
So you're saying not to bring my bike back to MN with me on Monday :(

[gopherhockey]

So you're saying not to bring my bike back to MN with me on Monday :(
Wet snow is piling up now... you heard it, looks like it has begun. Its right on the edge of freezing as well, so its probably a mess out there.

[socrates]

Wet snow is piling up now... you heard it, looks like it has begun. Its right on the edge of freezing as well, so its probably a mess out there.
YUCK!!!! And I was hoping to take one last ride :(

[bigwheel]

Last night I walked the trail. There was one biker that left before me, but he must have only done one lap, because I never saw him again. Otherwise, the lot was empty. It was 31 degrees when he took off (6:15pm), and the trail was frozen.

Most of the trail was snow-covered, but packed from about a dozen or so bikes so far. It looked slippery, but was not very rutted. The only problem areas that I could see were:
1: Some ruts forming on the beginner trail where there was no snow.
2: A bunch of spots where riders slid off into the woods.
3: Some obstacle ride-arounds and trail-widening spots that didn't used to be there.

It looked like only 1 bike attempted the camelback skinny and the log ride. In both cases, he only made it a couple feet before slipping off.

So, the trail looks to be rideable as long as you catch it when it is frozen. If you ride it warm, you will likely rut up the trail.

Note that it is slippery, especially on the climbs.

[Tim Wegner]

I wonder if it is time to put the fence and barriers up for the year?? They seemed to be effective last year. I know we don't have any snow on the trail but people are too stupid to police themselves to stay off the trails when they are muddy.

Many do not understand the frost/thaw cycle and how a trail can be perfectly dry in one area and turn to snot in another area 30 feet away.
TW

[gopherhockey]

I guess we should discuss what trails are to stay opened up for snowshoeing, if any..?

I don't like the idea that people are going around obstacles making new trails. If that is happening I'd say close the X and XX for sure.

[grizzly adam]

Good call - we just got snowshoes last year and would love to try 'em out more. With Leb being so close..... just give the order as to where we should/shouldn't go and we'll abide. We can also help "patrol" as well.

[Ish]

I know we don't have any snow on the trail but people are too stupid to police themselves to stay off the trails when they are muddy.
This just sucks for the rest of us that are smart enough to know when to stay off the trails. :mad:
Personally, I would like to be able to keep riding at Leb (when the ground is frozen) even if the x and xx is closed, but if closing the whole thing is what it takes to keep the trail and prevent damage, then so be it.

[Trevize1138]

Good call - we just got snowshoes last year and would love to try 'em out more. With Leb being so close..... just give the order as to where we should/shouldn't go and we'll abide. We can also help "patrol" as well.

Snow shoes ... you know, I can take a walk any old time ... :crazy:

Get some back-country skiis: just as maneuverable and you can have fun going downhill, too! ;)

[The Goat Killer]

Conditions are good for studded tires only. Some bikers rode before the "freeze" and set-in a few ruts and compacted the fresh snow into ICE. I have been riding there everyday since the freeze early afternoons. If you have studded tires, your in business! http://www.sport-touring.net/iB_html/uploads/post-13-75087-bike_today2.JPG

[nigel]

Conditions are good for studded tires only. Some bikers rode before the "freeze" and set-in a few ruts and compacted the fresh snow into ICE. I have been riding there everyday since the freeze early afternoons. If you have studded tires, your in business! http://www.sport-touring.net/iB_html/uploads/post-13-75087-bike_today2.JPG
Damn man! How come there is NO snow in my neighborhood. I need to head to leb i guess.

[fasterfoster]

This just sucks for the rest of us that are smart enough to know when to stay off the trails. :mad:
Personally, I would like to be able to keep riding at Leb (when the ground is frozen) even if the x and xx is closed...I agree. Due to my strange work schedule, I have been doing at least one evening ride a week for the last several weeks while the trails have been frozen. I'd hate to lose that. I had planned on riding until the snow was deep enough for the CC skiers.

I understand the issue with the obstacles and the "less informed" riders riding around them. I also understand the liability problems related to the obstacles.

Maybe if we get a cold snap (it doesn't look like it) some of the less serious riders will stay indoors!

[tedsti]

Rode last night and the entire trail is hard as concrete and icey in areas. There were a couple of areas on the beginner loop where some minor ruts formed before the freeze, but these should ride out in the spring.

I am for leaving the trail open if at all possible. The only problem might be the warm up that is predicted for this weekend.

Ted

[flea]

Took a hike on Monday 12/13 with my kid and walked quite a bit of the singletrack. Where ever there was a dusting of snow there was a layer of ice underneath. It was windy and cold, even in the woods.Saw a few down trees. It was an interesting perspective of the trail compared to riding, pretty fun but not nearly as much as on two wheels!
I posted some photos on the lebanon photo section

[gopherhockey]

Where were the trees down? If anyone can pinpoint the locations I can still go out and remove them.

I had a feeling there might be some major blow-down after the last couple days of wind... its been a bad year for trees falling at Leb.

[bigwheel]

If you'd like to do any trail repair, I am available this weekend to help out. If there are any big trees down, I can also bring a good chainsaw. I plan to help Steve drag out the river ferry on Saturday morning, but am otherwise available.

[flea]

the down tree in the picture i took is on xx before the slab rock drop. we hiked in from galaxie and crisscrossed thru the woods so the other locations i can't exactly recall. there were 2 others that we saw nothing huge.

[gopherhockey]

Its been a while since there has been a post here. Time to pick things up again I guess.

I went out and walked the trail today. There is still some snow in parts of the trail. Other parts are still very soft. Some are drying up, but the trail probably will need a good 2 more weeks barring any rain. The X will likely be a week or so behind, that one is a mess right now.

Some morons had been out riding already - there are some very deep ruts out there. These have the potential to be very damaging. I tried to flatten out what I could, but those riders did a lot of damage in a very short amount of time.

I'll be out there on and off today and through the next week/weekend trying to keep people out. I doubt it will be ready by next weekend so its going ot be a tough one to keep people off. Maybe some of you might volunteer to stop out and do some trail sitting/walking?

At least the gate is closed. Seems to be keeping cars out - I saw a lot of them casing around Lebanon trying to find a way in.

[KleinCrazy]

John,

Take the Camera with next time and get some very good pics of the ruts so we can show people what they are doing.

also, piano wire at chest heigth and carpet tack strips in trail might be usefull (j/k)

L8er
James

[tedsti]

So you are saying that I may be doing my civic duty by sitting in the parking lot with a cooler of beer for the sole purpose of keeping people off the trail? I will let you know if I can fill in this weekend. Heck, we could bring a grill and have a "Save the Trail" party in the parking lot.


Ted

[dave t]

I saw a lot of them casing around Lebanon trying to find a way in.

Unfortunately for the trail, if people are looking for alternate ways to enter, they will find them. There is'nt enough police tape in the world to keep out someone who doesn't want to obey the signs.

Would Dakota Parks agree to just park a truck in the lot during the day over the weekend to appear like there is someone patroling the trail?

[Kingbozo]

So you are saying that I may be doing my civic duty by sitting in the parking lot with a cooler of beer for the sole purpose of keeping people off the trail? I will let you know if I can fill in this weekend. Heck, we could bring a grill and have a "Save the Trail" party in the parking lot.


Ted

The more I think about it, the cooler that sounds.

[destrago]

So you are saying that I may be doing my civic duty by sitting in the parking lot with a cooler of beer for the sole purpose of keeping people off the trail? I will let you know if I can fill in this weekend. Heck, we could bring a grill and have a "Save the Trail" party in the parking lot.


Ted


I would definately put in a shift on this. It could be like a small MORC spring party in the leb parking lot. It might be a bit painful that we're at leb with neither bikes nor trail tools, but an extra brew or few would ease the pain!

-Tony

[Don Youngdahl]

So you are saying that I may be doing my civic duty by sitting in the parking lot with a cooler of beer......

If Dakota County Parks Dept. is like Three Rivers and Bloomington, that beer in the parking lot is illegal too. I know people that were bagged for having a beer in a Three Rivers Park lot, and a guy who was ticketed for having an open beer at the Bloomington Ferry trailhead. Not that I wouldn't have a beer (or even 2) in those places, just be discreet.

Don Youngdahl

[tedsti]

I was told ( this could be total BS) that it was illegal to drink in the lot but not in the park. In other words, as long as you were on the grass, you were OK. Can anyone confirm this?

If Dakota County Parks Dept. is like Three Rivers and Bloomington, that beer in the parking lot is illegal too. I know people that were bagged for having a beer in a Three Rivers Park lot, and a guy who was ticketed for having an open beer at the Bloomington Ferry trailhead. Not that I wouldn't have a beer (or even 2) in those places, just be discreet.

Don Youngdahl

[bigwheel]

I was told ( this could be total BS) that it was illegal to drink in the lot but not in the park. In other words, as long as you were on the grass, you were OK. Can anyone confirm this?

From the Dakota parks dept faq:
http://www.co.dakota.mn.us/parks/faq.htm
Q. Is alcohol permitted in the parks?
Beer and wine for personal consumption are permitted in picnic areas only. Bulk quantities are not allowed.

I'm not sure if this answers the question. I guess it depends on how the grassy area is designated. In the past, the cops have not bothered us, and I'm sure they know it was not all gatorade in our bottles.

[waitabit]

TWO WORDS: paper bags.

[tedsti]

Well it has been warm, really dry, and pretty windy. Any chance the outer loop will be in any shape to ride this weekend? Is there too much "spring cleanup" to even consider it? With the weather like this, I had to ask.

John, are planning on doing an official walk-through on Friday? I may be available to help if the dentist doesn't shoot me up to bad tomorrow.

Ted

[gopherhockey]

I walked the entire trail this afternoon. It will not be ready for this weekend. It is getting close, but the frost seems to still be coming out. The very very top is dry, but right under that its pretty slick if not muddy in some areas. I still see new tire marks sinking in even after last weekend. People just are not staying off. I'm tempted to wait for it to be dry, then add another week just because people can't stay off. Hard to penalize all you good people that have been waiting though!

It really would be good if we could have some people out on the trail this weekend doing some not-so-official save the trail types of things. I don't know if I can organize anything official. I will likely walk some more Friday afternoon and evening, then again on Sat and Sunday - not sure when though.

If we even just had people sitting near the galaxie entrance and perhaps in the lot watching it would help. The lot is closed off with the gate though, so you have to park outside the gate and/or down the road or over by the tennis courts to the north of the park.

There are some trees that are down in various parts of the trail. I may drag a chainsaw out there soemtime this weekend. There are a lot of rocks visible this time of year too, I've been trying to drag some up near the trail for us to use at a later date.

I have also put up lots of tape. Seems people just break through it, but it won't be fun for the first lap or so. Some of the tape isn't so easy to break through.. :shocked:

This is a key weekend. If we can get through this weekend without tracks it means we can probably open up late next week if the weather is nice. If people ride this weekend we will have to do some work before we can open it up. There is already some major damage in the X loop and some lower areas where people were sinking in. This has been the worst spring yet for riders.

Whatever happens this weekend if anyone is willing to help stop by and watch the trail at times it would help. It would help send a message too that we value our trail. Nobody should get into any crazy arguments - but a simple "the trail is closed" and "get off your bike, lets walk you out to the road" usually does the trick. People play dumb... "it is closed?" Hmmm.. yea, thats kinda what the orange fence, the signs and all that tape means. :shocked:

I'll post more when I know what I plan to do if anyone wants to come out and do minor trail work or just walk around and enjoy the weather etc....

We're getting closer...

[bigwheel]

John, if you need any help, there's a good chance I'll be able to take most of the afternoon off today.

Maybe we need a couple well-placed not-so-friendly signs about 1/4 mile into the trial. That way, the only people that will see them are the poachers.

BTW, if you want to give your bike a shake-out without destroying trails, the Eagan side of the MN river trail is open and most of it is in good shape. This is double-track, mostly class-5 gravel, but at least it is off-road. It is clear all the way from Mendota to about 1 mile from the Cedar bridge. Then, there is a big mud spot where the trail gets close to river level. I didn't try to cross it, so I don't know how long the muddy area is.

If you head back under 494 to catch the paved bike trail, there is also a nice rocky dry hill heading up to the paved trail, where you can try to re-learn how to climb.

[waitabit]

John, if you need any help, there's a good chance I'll be able to take most of the afternoon off today.

Maybe we need a couple well-placed not-so-friendly signs about 1/4 mile into the trial. That way, the only people that will see them are the poachers.

BTW, if you want to give your bike a shake-out without destroying trails, the Eagan side of the MN river trail is open and most of it is in good shape. This is double-track, mostly class-5 gravel, but at least it is off-road. It is clear all the way from Mendota to about 1 mile from the Cedar bridge. Then, there is a big mud spot where the trail gets close to river level. I didn't try to cross it, so I don't know how long the muddy area is.

If you head back under 494 to catch the paved bike trail, there is also a nice rocky dry hill heading up to the paved trail, where you can try to re-learn how to climb.I rode that trail on my Cx bike the other day, it's a boring trail but at least its rideable, the climb up to the paved trail is a good one.Its a warm up anyway.

[tedsti]

I walked part of the trail starting at the Galaxy entrance to the entrance to the X loop. I re-tied about 6 caution tapes that had been broken. I then went backwards from the Galaxy entrance and fixed another 6 or so caution tapes. This was between 5 and 6:30 today. I didn't run into anyone on the trail though.

[gopherhockey]

I walked part of the trail starting at the Galaxy entrance to the entrance to the X loop. I re-tied about 6 caution tapes that had been broken. I then went backwards from the Galaxy entrance and fixed another 6 or so caution tapes. This was between 5 and 6:30 today. I didn't run into anyone on the trail though.

Thanks for your help! I don't know if it is riders, hikers, or animals breaking through the tape - I hope it is not riders.

I'll be out there tomorrow as well, possibly hang some signs first thing in the a.m. letting people know there are workers on the trail. Maybe that will help.

I hope we're just one more week away. This is a tough time of year to try keep people off.

[thebionicman]

I did a drive-by in the Bat Mobile today around 2:30 to check things out. I didn't see any signs of riders at either entrance (good thing, I really didn't want to go running through the woods after someone).

[gopherhockey]

Caught 3 riders today - 2 fled, I walked one out of the park. That guy said "I learned my lesson, I'm sorry.." the other two yelled at me "We're just checking it out.."

Hmmm... guess I didn't know they were the official checking the trail out riders. I didn't get that memo I guess. :eyeroll:

Things don't appear to be progressing very quickly, but I'm holding out hope we will be riding by next weekend. Usually we open near the middle of April.

There are a lot of trees my sorry little chainsaw could not cut. Dang oak trees. I need to sharpen the chains and try again, or find someone with a better saw to come help. One on the bypass, another just below Jan's Rock, a couple on the X loop, a couple on the Dream trail.

[gopherhockey]

Did some tree removal today. I think I got most of them. One of them, on the bypass climb, was in a perfect position for... well... you know what. ;) Made this one easier though since its on an Intermediate spot. (thanks again mother nature!)

The trail is hardening up, but its still right on the edge. The hot windy weather is helping, but there are spots that aren't drying up too quickly - I think partly beacuse there were riders out there and the moisture has sat in the ruts and didn't have anywhere to go. Too bad, it probably cost us all a week of open riding.

Hopefully it won't rain. If the trail opens, watch for it in the MORC mebers area first... then here a few days later.

This spring has been bad for riders. I think we need to figure out a way to better protect the trails next spring. Orange fence and yellow tape doesn't cut it - it just invites them. Maybe some wire mesh or some kind of chains... we'll see. The way it is now we're only hurting ourselves by not doing more. Its pretty sad if you walk out there and see what people have done this spring. I cannot imagine what kind of person would ride like that and not feel bad about it... selfish a#)*(holes.

[bigwheel]

There are a lot of trees my sorry little chainsaw could not cut. Dang oak trees. I need to sharpen the chains and try again, or find someone with a better saw to come help. One on the bypass, another just below Jan's Rock, a couple on the X loop, a couple on the Dream trail.

John, I have a decent chainsaw in town. If you have any trees left, I'll be glad to help out.

[bolmsted]

I still have a couple extra wolverines. If people would like, I would be willing to donate another one to Lebanon Hills for the express purpose of terrorizing riders out on the soggy trails until they are open.

On a somewhat related note...apparently my old wolverine, (the one I left at leb a couple years ago) was recently caught on tape at a local car lot and hasn't gone north as many believed.

[gopherhockey]

This rain, while welcome, basically just cost us an opening this week. The ruts that exist are going to hold the water instead of shedding like usually happens at Lebanon.

Basically this is exactly why we preach staying off at this time of year. The poachers have cost us all another week of drying. I hope their early rides are worth all our pain. :fool:
Oh well.. maybe next week.

[Kingbozo]

Parking lots can install tire shredding devices to prevent misuse. Any way we could do the same thing?

[n8marx]

First off, I believe in staying off the trails until they are dry and the whole sustainable trails movement. I am not yet a MORC member. I have a problem understanding how MORC is entitled to kick people off trails in a public park though. I also worry that the hard-nosed attitude expressed by some here toward riders who may genuinely not "get" that riding in mud eventually ruins the trail may end up doing more bad than good. How many of those folks that get kicked out of a trail by a MORC member go ahead and bitch to their buddies about the holier than thou a**holes at MORC that think they own the trails? Think that does much to help your organization's PR? I just recently started visiting this web forum to find out about MORC. For the last who-knows-how-many years I held the same opinion the kicked-off rider might have. Who are these guys and why do they think they have the authority to keep me from riding? I now understand why it is that I was encouraged to stay off the trail. Shouting at me, however, probably only would have encouraged me to ride it anyway, just out of spite.

I don't know the answer but perhaps one component of it could be a Trail Day type event where MORC folks, and I'd join to help, could set up shop at some of the busier trailheads on a sunny Saturday morning to encourage folks to come to the web boards, join the club, learn about sustainable trail issues, etc. I'm not saying this is the answer but it might help more than caution tape and snow fence in the long run.

[Trevize1138]

Yeah, Nate! Stir the pot! :)

This should be a reminder to us of why we should all a politely and nicely as possible *educate* other riders and not just yell at them. I, for one, have learned this lesson as I have simply yelled at people in the past but since joining MORC I've calmed down and learned the value of politely and nicely reasoning with people and explaining why they shouldn't ride on closed trails.

But, Nate, you should know that it was MORC that got me to stop shouting and being an A-hole to other riders about the issue. As long as I've known the organization they've been adamant about educating people in the nicest way possible and not simply yelling at them or berating them specifically because it will just breed more resentment.

[n8marx]

Great. I'm glad to hear it. I didn't intend to paint everyone here with the same brush. It just seems that all of these threads end up with "I yelled at a few folks today". JUst pointing out that for some folks this isn't best idea.

[gopherhockey]

Great. I'm glad to hear it. I didn't intend to paint everyone here with the same brush. It just seems that all of these threads end up with "I yelled at a few folks today". JUst pointing out that for some folks this isn't best idea.

Your point is well taken. What you will come to understand is that we often vent here in the forums among friends, but even this too we need to use caution.

If you were ever to be out on the trails with me while I'm walking around you would know that I really am not that kind of person. I walked a guy off the trail the other day, but we chatted on the way out and he asked about helping with trail work - I let him know the trails were going to be ready soon... we ended things on a very positive note and I think he will have no disrespect for MORC at all. In fact, it is typically the MORC way to deal with people just as you suggest.

This is not to say that sometimes people are beyond help. Sometimes there is complete disregard for whatever we might say. Those times are unfortunate - but I normally just back away from those types and let them pass. I did yell (in volume) to a couple last weekend but only because they were nowhere near me and I had to let them know the trail was closed.

I totally appreciate your thoughts though. It is unbelievably hard to put in so much time and effort into the trail and still try to maintain some composure. When I see someone riding out there that has obviously passed through "trail closed" signs and fences I know that they are not just doing it because they don't know better, they are blatantly passing through where they know they shouldn't be - regardless of whether they agree or not. I see them riding and not only think about my efforts but mostly all of my fellow MORC members and trail builders who have put in their efforts. You simply want to grab them and shake them, but part of being responsible for trails and to MORC is to walk that line appropriately.

As for being entitled - it differs per trail. Essentially we work with land owners and managers to build up relationships at the major parks we work in. Along with this comes a certain amount of ability to maintain and watch over the trails. We certainly do not hand out tickets or put people in jail (so to speak) but they have never had a problem with us being protective and doing our best to keep people off. (and we can obviously call various land managers directly for help in the actual policing of people - its been done before..) I believe any land owner or manager would agree that being confrontational is not the way to go though.. so what I said above is even more important when we are talking about parks and public land areas.

MORC has built a very good relationship and I think you will come to see that in the end we gain many more members than we lose. However, there are always people who just don't care. They don't even so much care about MORC as much as they don't care about anyone but themselves. For those people we just have to hope they someday figure it out on their own I guess.

[tedsti]

You will never keep some people off of the trail unless you have 24/7 armed guards. The people who rode through and broke over a dozen caution tapes on the trail clearly don't give a damn about anything. This is just basic vandalism, plain and simple.

I was walking the trail Friday night fixing caution tape and trying to flatten out ruts with my feet. One thing that I noticed is that the really bad ruts in the X loop had tire tread patterns that looked like something on a department store bike. I guess it is good in a way that it probably wasn't an educated rider doing the damage, but just some kids who don't give a rip. I did notice some Bontrager tread patterns on the intermediate loop though :fool: . Next time I will bring out the full forensics kit and make plaster molds for future comparisons.....

[shourtt]

Sounds like CSI:Lebanon Hills (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24) could be the next big show.

[stoneage]

Parking lots can install tire shredding devices to prevent misuse. Any way we could do the same thing?

And why not!!!! Install razor wire in the fall at various locations on the tread and alert the public at the entrances that the trails are closed and that there are tire flattening devices installed and that they ride at their own risk. It wouldn't take a lot of manpower, the stainless wire could be used over and over again, and the park departments might help. Pretty easy policing if you ask me. The people that care won't mind and the ones that don't are forewarned.

[BridgeR]

I'm no lawyer, but that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[stoneage]

Like the man said, they do it in parking lots now. It is public land, but the park department is the steward of the land. They can do what they want to ensure compliance. Brick walls, fences, whatever. As long as the public is forewarned and it isn't an immediate danger to life and limb, I see no problem.
Would someone sue if they pinch flatted at Lebanon? Would someone sue if they flatted on barb wire after they were warned of conditions?

[BridgeR]

Under normal circumstances, you're right... but the world has gotten so sue-happy that people actually look for any dumb reason. Some idiot crashing because of a flat from wire is all a bloodthirsty lawyer would need to hear and he'd be all over it.

I have a lot of hunting land up north that I bust people sneaking into during deer hunting season every year. They tear it up with their ATV's and trucks. I could spend all my time and energy trying to keep people out by putting up fence and security, staying awake all night worrying... I just choose not to. It sucks that something I've worked so hard for is being torn up. I just made up my mind not to lose any sleep over it. It's sad people can't respect other people's hard work, but that's just a fact of life. There will always be those kinds of people. Like someone said before, "if they want to get in, they're going to find a way".

[iceskier]

John,
Can you lock this thread and start another one? It is getting a rather large and stressing my weak a$$ed system. I can't hradly follow this thread anymore. But like a chubby girl in a too tight outfit, I can't seem to look away and ignore it. Save me!!

[Trevize1138]

Under normal circumstances, you're right... but the world has gotten so sue-happy that people actually look for any dumb reason. Some idiot crashing because of a flat from wire is all a bloodthirsty lawyer would need to hear and he'd be all over it.

Sorry, this is a tired old cliche with no basis in fact.

[FSSS]

Is there signage stating Dakota County's official policies on trail closures, and does Dakota have fines in place for violations of these policies??

[ryno lite]

First off, I believe in staying off the trails until they are dry and the whole sustainable trails movement. I am not yet a MORC member. I have a problem understanding how MORC is entitled to kick people off trails in a public park though. I also worry that the hard-nosed attitude expressed by some here toward riders who may genuinely not "get" that riding in mud eventually ruins the trail may end up doing more bad than good. How many of those folks that get kicked out of a trail by a MORC member go ahead and bitch to their buddies about the holier than thou a**holes at MORC that think they own the trails? Think that does much to help your organization's PR? I just recently started visiting this web forum to find out about MORC. For the last who-knows-how-many years I held the same opinion the kicked-off rider might have. Who are these guys and why do they think they have the authority to keep me from riding? I now understand why it is that I was encouraged to stay off the trail. Shouting at me, however, probably only would have encouraged me to ride it anyway, just out of spite.

I think one thing John forgot to emphasize is that even though this is a public park, the trail is closed to mountain biking per the Dakota Parks system at this time. We are not kicking them out of a public park but kicking them off an area that is completely closed right now. They are technically breaking the laws of the park system. We are partners with Dakota County Parks and only do what they allow. I just don't know why CLOSED means one thing to some people and another to other people. In other systems, like Three Rivers, people are fined by the parks system for entering CLOSED areas. These people are getting off way too light! In my eyes it's almost like tresspassing and vandalism all wrapped up into one crime! Oh well, I may be overreacting, but I've spent alot of time on those trails and like many on this site, I get a little territorial when it comes to this trail system.

[socrates]

I'm no lawyer, but that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Only if you can prove who's responsible

[socrates]

John,
like a chubby girl in a too tight outfit, I can't seem to look away and ignore it. Save me!!

After reading this I'm afraid of the nightmares I will most likely have now tonight....Thanks Iceskier :(

[bakkeb]

What pisses me off the most is that I would love to get all muddy and start riding as soon as the temp. gets above freezing, but that would be selfish and not fair to everyone else. Now because others don't care, I have to wait. We all have to wait. Nobody would care if we all lived in a place where we could ride singletrack all year, but we don't. I did get to ride River Bottoms on Sun., but it's just an appetizer to me. I think we do have the right to kick people off trails when they are not ready since it is MORC that has made them what they are and give us great places to ride. A lot of people put in a lot of time for free and have the right to be pissed off when it looks like people don't care. :etard:

[dasil003]

Besides, it's not like it's really selfish. Unless they're never planning on coming back to the trail, they're ruining it for themselves just as much as for the rest of us.

[BridgeR]

Sorry, this is a tired old cliche with no basis in fact.

No basis? It's happening everyday with all the frivilous lawsuits over nothing.

[dasil003]

Yes, but are those lawsuits won? I would say that severe tire damage devices on the trail would almost be okay if they were well marked, but that would defeat the purpose no?

[bolmsted]

"Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists (MORC) is a non-profit volunteer organization dedicated to safeguarding the future of mountain biking in Minnesota through the promotion of responsible riding, establishment and maintenance of mountain biking trails, and preservation of Minnesota's natural resources."

MORC offers a service promoting responsible riding and building trail networks for all to enjoy. I think the key might be in recognizing that whatever method any one of us uses to "yell at people" or "kick them off" when they are doing something wrong should reflect the fact that our motivation is to promote responsible riding and protect the future of our passtime. I can see how some people may get the wrong impression about MORC if we aren't diligent in HOW we present our case when a situation arises. ...So as John had explained, I guess we should always try to convert rather than banish people through our actions.

[bigwheel]

Keep in mind, there are two kinds of people riding the wet trails:

1: People who assume that the trail is closed for stupid reasons, i.e., Because it is not "the date" yet. Because the park service is lazy or forgot to take down the closed signs. Because the official walkthough has not happened yet, and they are worried about liability. Because the park service thought your ride would not be enjoyabe. etc...

These people are willing to get their bike muddy and ride imperfect conditions, but don't realize that they are damaging the trail.

2: Selfish a-holes, who could care less about wrecking the trail.

My guess is that most of the people out there fall into category-1, and we should be nice to them. The category-2 people are hopeless, and could use some negative-reinforcement.

The tough part is guessing what category the rider falls into.

[Don Youngdahl]

Yes, but are those lawsuits won?

The point on frivolous or far-fetched lawsuits is not whether or not they are won, it's the legal costs involved in fighting them, and the settlement costs, which often happens because settlement out of court is often cheaper than winning in court. Settlement costs are almost always confidential, so there is no public record to get a quantitative handle on this part of the discussion.

Don Youngdahl

[Danimal]

Does anyone save these threads? I mean if the park boards ever decides to close down a trail and blame MORC for "wrecking the trails" by riding when they are not open, do we have proof of the extent we (MORC) goes to keep people off the trails when they aren't ready to ride. Do we cover our a**es? Do the park boards know we make every effort to keep these people off the trails and for that matter what the heck are the parks and recreation doing to ensure these ignorant people are informed / punished for riding trails that aren't open?

justa wondering.

[bolmsted]

Wolverine bite marks on offending riders would a be a good way to let the park boards know the extent to which we protect our trails!

[berrywise]

You are never going to stop the people who don't care about whether a trail is muddy or not. There are certain people out there who in fact take enjoyment in riding in the mud.

You can stop the people who are uneducated and signs just are not going to cut it. The heavily ridden trails like Leb need gates at the beginnings of the trail with big ole signs that say TRAIL CLOSED BECAUSE OF WET TRAILS. They need to be locked. Once again just SIGNS do not cut it.

Will people ride around the gates? Yes but they would ride around you even if you were standing there telling them not to ride too.

It's the people who just don't understand that even though it is 90 degrees out and sunny today the trail might still be closed because it rained the day before.

I hope the Parks can kick out the money to install said gates at the major trailheads at Leb.

[FSSS]

The heavily ridden trails like Leb need gates at the beginnings of the trail with big ole signs that say TRAIL CLOSED BECAUSE OF WET TRAILS.

I completely agree. But they need to be backed up by consequences and enforcement. And the enforcement CANNOT come from MORC - MORC has no real authority to enforce trail closures - its gotta come from Dakota. Effective enforcement doesn't have to be a huge time/$$$ burden either. Timing is key - occasional enforcement during the early season and the few other wet periods we have. Make examples out a few of the ignorant riders to get the word out that the trail is actually enforced, and that there are consequences (beyond just pissing off MORC members).

Again... is there signage (at the trailhead) stating Dakota County's official policies on trail closures, and does Dakota have fines in place for violations of these policies??

[Kingbozo]

When I mentioned the tire shredders it was more out of frustration than anything else.

One idea that I heard mentioned before that seems much more realistic would be a ""wall of shame". Set up a camouflaged<o =""></o> camera with a motion sensor to snap pics of violators. There are enough tech heads in this community to pull this off. Post the pictures here and on the "bulletin board" at the trail head.

[FSSS]

When I mentioned the tire shredders it was more out of frustration than anything else.

One idea that I heard mentioned before that seems much more realistic would be a ""wall of shame". Set up a camouflaged<O =""></O> camera with a motion sensor to snap pics of violators. There are enough tech heads in this community to pull this off. Post the pictures here and on the "bulletin board" at the trail head.

Both ideas would just create more anti-MORC trail users. MORC volunteers are the good guys - leave the enforcement to the people with the authority to do so.

You want to make 'the rules' the bad guy in the eyes of these ignorant riders, not the good people that work so hard to build/maintain the trails. The rules, and enforcement of them, must come from the land managers (although MORC can obviously help the land managers develop appropriate rules).

Education, without any air of self-righteousness, is where MORC will be most effective in curbing illegal trail uses (whether out of ignorance or spite).

[bolmsted]

I like the idea about keeping MORC as the good guys. Has anyone thought about wording the signage to coomunicate something along the lines of:

---The trails are closed and if people don't abide by the ruling then MORC will be unable to properly maintain the trails and the county may take the land back and destroy the trails for the preservation of the land.

i wonder if the worst of the worst may even understand that someone else (the county) may step in and take the fun away...besides MORC?

[TML]

Both ideas would just create more anti-MORC trail users. MORC volunteers are the good guys - leave the enforcement to the people with the authority to do so.

You want to make 'the rules' the bad guy in the eyes of these ignorant riders, not the good people that work so hard to build/maintain the trails. The rules, and enforcement of them, must come from the land managers (although MORC can obviously help the land managers develop appropriate rules).

Education, without any air of self-righteousness, is where MORC will be most effective in curbing illegal trail uses (whether out of ignorance or spite).

Very well said.

We can help police the trails to a certain extent but our main goal in that should be education. It'd be nice if all the parks had the manpower to have dedicated enforcers but I doubt that's the case.

[grizzly adam]

I think there may be some progress on something like this already....

I'd like to see us be able to use the bulletin board that's there more effectively. Maybe move it closer to the trailhead for starters - or not. But it would be great to have some verbage defining when and why trails are closed. Show some pictures of trailwork, pictures of the trail wet and ridden and explain why it's bad to ride when it's wet. That way we're educating and possibly even policing, to a small extent, without even being there.

(of course after writing this I realized that I haven't looked at the board recently, so I don't even know what it looks like now...)

[dasil003]

The laminated card at the head of the River Bottoms does a pretty good job IMHO. It's located at the Indian Mound school end.

[jeffgude]

When I mentioned the tire shredders it was more out of frustration than anything else.

One idea that I heard mentioned before that seems much more realistic would be a ""wall of shame". Set up a camouflaged<O =""></O> camera with a motion sensor to snap pics of violators. There are enough tech heads in this community to pull this off. Post the pictures here and on the "bulletin board" at the trail head.


I like this idea. Plus we'll have lots of pictures of Lundell out there walking the trails.

[gopherhockey]

I like this idea. Plus we'll have lots of pictures of Lundell out there walking the trails.

I can see it now - blurry sightings of the lebanon bigfoot out roaming the trails with tools... DOH!

I'm going to take a look at the trail today to see where we are at and will post more information soon.

To be sure everyone knows, as of today its still a May 1 opening according to MORC and Dakota County. If we suggest otherwise as a result of trail conditions (and inspection of our obstacles) it is possible we will open early.

I can say for certain the teeter will not be operational until we do some maintenance on it this year. It will be chained up for now... sorry.

Watch for grand opening details in the MORC members forum... but again as of now its still closed so please be patient!

[gopherhockey]

We were hoping for an opening sometime this weekend, but rain is going to be delaying it once again...

As always, thanks for your patience. Hopefully mother nature will work with us so we can get leb opened up.

May 1 is the official date still until further notice.

[soupboy]

Thanks,

Sean

[LightWeight]

Thanks,

Sean

Haven't been by today, but I would guess not as the pavement is still wet here. I'm about 5 miles south of Leb.

[gopherhockey]

People need to give Leb a few more days. It isn't its usual hard pack conditions - the combination of poachers and deer have put huge holes and ruts in the trail. After 1" of rain its going to hold moisture more than usual.

[NDK]

Today when I drove by there were about 3 cars/trucks with bikes in the back. I hope they didn't ride them and just looked at the trail closed signs.

[LightWeight]

Rode my bike over to the trail at about 4:30. Saw some kids on their BMXs riding the wrong way down the beginner loop as I was pulling into the lot. They were out of site before I could talk to them. Didn't look like there were any new tracks heading off in the right direction.

[grizzly adam]

I was at Leb Friday afternoon scoping out the trail for the TT and as we were hanging out in the lot talking a pickup pulled up to the gate with a bike in the back. At first he looked like he was going to park in front of the gate. We just stood there watching him and eventually he left. We hung out a bit more and then started walking across the field towards the tennis courts and I see this dude riding along the sidewalk towards the dirt lot. I ran to the lot and saw him riding right towards the trailhead. I said "Excuse me. Sir." He turned around and coasted towards me. "The trails are closed until May 1st. They're just not ready yet. If the rain holds off, maybe it'll be earlier, but the 1st is what we're shooting for." As he rode up to me I could tell he was not happy. His lips were pursed and he just glared at me. I thought for sure this was going to be a fight, so I thought of everything MORC taught me and put it in my memory reserve so that I could just spit out word vomit to him, but he just rode past me and out of the lot. We hung out in the lot for a bit longer, just to make sure he didn't just come back.

It makes me sad to see poaching in action. It's one thing to read about it, but to actually see it...wow. Oh well. I felt better after he left. Even if he did try to get in somewhere else. Maybe he kinda felt bad if he rode. Or better yet, maybe he went to the river bottoms!

[SuperClydesdale]

Hey gang,

I happened to be down in the south metro yesterday afternoon and decided to drive by Leb to see what was going on. The lot was open and there were a couple of cars with bike racks on them, so I decided to do a little education about the trail status. I let several arriving groups know that the trails were not yet opened by Dakota County, and also informed several riders coming off the trail of the same.

However, I found it very frustrating that there is virtually no signage indicating the status of the trails. Sure, there is the pink notice on the bulletin board, but clearly people are not reading that. (And even that notice has WAY to much verbiage on it. Most people won't spend the multiple minutes required to wade through that notice.) I noticed a metal "Trail Closed" sign at the entrance to the beginner loop, but no similar signage posted on the entrabce to the intermediate singletrack leading up the hill. Also, no tape (or remnants thereof) or fencing to indicate that the trails are closed. So, I can't really take issue with anybody riding the trails because the trail status is not being communicated to the greater riding public. The trails sure looked open to me! This wasn't people tearing down tape, or walking around an orange fence. If I did not have an awareness of MORC, and especially this forum, I would have ridden the rails without any reservations and I am as conscientious as they come vis a vis trail status.

I think we need to get better signage installed before we can get upset about people "poaching" the trails. Isn't it our job to educate the greater riding public about the status of the trails? I certainly think that it is in our best interests to do so. If Dakota County depends on us to steward these trails, why is it so difficult to get signage that informs non-MORCers of the trail status? We know that this is an issue every year, and every year we get upset about people riding the trails before they officially open, but I just did not see anything at the trailhead that indicated that the trails were closed. I don't think we can honestly blame "poachers" until we get better at publicizing the status of the trails.

On a positive note, none of the bikes I saw coming off the trail were overburdened with mud. And the west side or the River Bottoms was in awesome shape.

Mark

[manual63]

I think too many of us here assume people who ride know about MORC and know about these forums. This is not the case. I don't know the % of people who come here to the website, but I bet is much less than 50%. So....I agree that we need to have better signs and trail markings. I didn't know about MORC or any MTB groups until about 2 or so years ago. I rode the river bottoms when I felt they were ready. I really hate mud, so I never rode muddy trails......but obviously......not everyone hates mud like I do.

When I see someone riding a wet trail......I am like.....why do they even want to do that????.....it's no fun. I also have other outlets too.....like my BMX street riding or freeride urban.........so I guess it's easy for me to stay off the trails.

[SPR]

I agree with these last 2 posts. As Shad pointed out there are many riders out there who have no idea about MORC and our efforts. It surprises me when at Leb I stop and talk with riders and discover they have never heard about MORC or with this website. :confused:

Time for MORC business cards with the website to hand out to fellow riders.:D

[tedsti]

Just stopped by the parking lot and talked to some kids who were riding. They said they have been riding it for the past 2 days and have seen lots of people on the trail. On the good side, they said it was dry.....

If I didn't read the forums, I certainly would have riden it today and wouldn't have had any reason not to.

[gopherhockey]

We can consider Lebanon opened now. I discovered what happened.

We had called Dakota telling them we were possibly opening last week (Sat) - I rode the trails Friday and cleaned up tape and brush etc. - but then it rained... Dakota still opened things up, however, even with all the rain.

It is something we need to improve... and it wasn't really Dakota's fault - they heard "open it up" so they did. It was very unfortunate timing.

I agree on the trail signage thing too. We need that improved. I am not as bothered by people riding the trail when the fences are down and no signs are visible... it was before Dakota opened it up when there was caution tape all over and orange fences blocking every entrance that I was bothered. MORC knowledge or not, that was way too obvious of a "trail closed" message.

Once the trail is opened up though its all open to education and maturity... there are always those that just don't know better. We'll eventually get to some of them. However, even a big orange "don't ride when wet" official sign won't stop some... even knowledge of MORC won't stop some. Fact of life. Oh well. There are always selfish people in this world.... but I like to look on the bright side now and say have at it - get out there and ride, pack it down.. give feedback on conditions. If the X is still wet there is likely still caution tape back there. The rest, by now, should be better.

Once we pack it down it will recover faster after rain. I remember last year we had to close it after heavy spring rains, however, so lets get in ther before that happens and get our fill of rides.

I'm not in town right now, so I'm relying on details here to find out what kind of shape the trail is in.

OH... and the teeter totter is closed. Hopefully nobody plays with it and sets it back upright.

Enjoy the trails... I'll see ya out there soon.

[tedsti]

I'm out the doooorrrrr.............


I'll have a report after dark...

[EA Madden]

I'm out the doooorrrrr.............


I'll have a report after dark...
my light is charging and i cant wait to ride leb

[tedsti]

Well, well, well, where to start? The dirt is still on the ground and the sky is still above.

The trail is in good riding shape. I noticed a few "enhancements" since last year. The ground is still a little soft in spots, so I would not kamakazi it through some of the turns for your and the trails sake. The X loop is still taped off. For the most part, there are some tread marks from people riding it in the past day or so, but no tire marks if you get what I mean.

[waitabit]

Check out the trail reviews, some guy said he rode it on 4/14.Funny he did'nt see that the trail was closed and he was on the site, what the hell is going on?:confused:

[gopherhockey]

THat was in 2004 I believe. We had opened the trail up sooner the last two years... about a week or two sooner than this year. We had better protected/closed the trail off the last couple of years as well.

If anyone gets a chance to scope out the X loop let us all know if it is ok - once it is dry enough the tape can be removed... but my guess is it might need another day or two? There were a ton of deer tracks in the X over winter that really tore up the trail and seemed to hold water.<!-- / message -->



Check out the trail reviews, some guy said he rode it on 4/14.Funny he did'nt see that the trail was closed and he was on the site, what the hell is going on?:confused:

[bigwheel]

<!-- / message -->If anyone gets a chance to scope out the X loop let us all know if it is ok - once it is dry enough the tape can be removed... but my guess is it might need another day or two? There were a ton of deer tracks in the X over winter that really tore up the trail and seemed to hold water.

John, we are getting light rain in Eagan this morning. It's supposed to clear up tomorrow.

I volunteered to do some bridge work at the river bottoms tonight. If I don't get a response and it's not pouring, I'll hike into leb tonight, and check out the X loop. I'll also bring in a hand saw to do some cleaning up, if it is necessary.

[destrago]

Bob,

What time you thinking of doing that? You need a hand? I'll be able to help you tonight clearing downed logs and what not if you'd like. Let me know.


-Tony

[bigwheel]

Hey Tony,

Let's meet at the 6:00pm at the Galaxy Ave entrance. I'll bring a medium-size hand saw. I have a chainsaw but don't want to bring it in without talking with the gods first.

I'll pm you my cell phone number. If it is raining, we can put it off for another day.

Bob


Bob,

What time you thinking of doing that? You need a hand? I'll be able to help you tonight clearing downed logs and what not if you'd like. Let me know.

-Tony

[bigwheel]

Guys,

It's sopping wet out there and still misting.

Let's postpone our trail walk and brush clearing for another night. No sense to us messing up the trail just to tell everyone that it's too wet to ride.

Bob S.




Hey Tony,

Let's meet at the 6:00pm at the Galaxy Ave entrance. I'll bring a medium-size hand saw. I have a chainsaw but don't want to bring it in without talking with the gods first.

I'll pm you my cell phone number. If it is raining, we can put it off for another day.

Bob

[destrago]

Was out at leb today. The outer loop is somewhere between tacky and damp. Dream I has some ruts and bumps, Dream II seems ok (I didn't notice anything tremendously bad). Beginner trail has some standing water and some SERIOUS ruts carved into it (I assume these are what John has been talking about). All the swamps are REALLY high, but not over the trail anywhere. I didn't go into X or XX because having seen the beginner loop I was pretty sure X was gonna be too wet to ride.

All the stuff I rode was quite firm and only slightly damp or moist (nothing sloshy or loose). But as I said, didn't check out X or XX because I was pretty sure I already knew the answer and didn't feel like walking back out to the bypass.


-Tony

[NDK]

Is the teeter totter still closed? I rode by it today and if I didn't read on here that its closed I would have thought it was open. What happend to the teeter totter any ways?

[Kiecker]

I think I soiled myself.

On my commute home I stopped by Leb and saw the lot full of cars. After getting home and switching from my fixed to my ht off I went again back to Leb.

Conditions were great, but beware mutant gnomes multiplied over the colder months. They sucked most of the damp ground out leaving it nice and tacky. However don't think the little buggers are going to play nice since were "invading" their home in the back woods as was evident by a brutally fierce attack on a rider in front on me. Wam! Just cuz it's your first ride don't think they'll let you by.

Connecting up with the x and xx loops conditions were a bit more moist but still very solid and tacky. Along the rock garden on the x loop this estranged mutant Egyptian gnome just about yanked my front wheel out and took off with my deraileur. Luckily I was able to unclip and step on his toe. All obstacals rode very nicely including the teeter tooter.

Because of such a back slapping gnome on the first x/xx loop and I had to go back again to see if he was still there. Good god he brought his friends and chased me as fast as I could pedal all the way through. Luckily a huge veggie burrito from lunch finally paid off as the smoke cleared most of them away from my wheels. Pedal fast wise one and save your flatulence for the gnomes.

The fast down hill on the outer loop was Supreme!! Super fast and flowing like I remember. Only one spot did I find baby gnomes (the best kind for snabbing) drinking from a puddle in the pines on the way back to the lot.

I look forward to continuing gnome eradication. Hopefully I'll put my SS back together so they have even less parts to nab.

[TastyFunk]

Went riding yesterday...holy cow...mesa likin' Dream II, I'll tell you what. The rock is insane and the double will have me trying to find the perfect line for the whole season! :)

I did skip the expert section however, because I figured it was still closed. However, the yellow caution tape had been broken but I stopped because I figured if John wanted us on there he would have disposed of the tape, not just broken it and thrown in haphazardly across the trail. So, are the expert loops open? I really want to get on them, but not enough to wreck them in the process!

[socrates]

Guys,

It's sopping wet out there and still misting.

Let's postpone our trail walk and brush clearing for another night. No sense to us messing up the trail just to tell everyone that it's too wet to ride.

Bob S.

Sniff....Sniff.....All that wet weather you guys had has finally moved SE and the trails here are now sopping wet :cryin: (but I guess the trails were getting very dusty/sandy in spots)

[BrightYellow]

Connecting up with the x and xx loops conditions were a bit more moist but still very solid and tacky.

Rode last night and this morning and I'd have to agree with the above description - a little more moist this morning than last night, but didn't seem bad at all.

I also rode the XX, but didn't notice the tape. So, if it wasn't supposed to be open - I'm sorry, I thought it was. It is in really good shape either way.

Man, it's great to get back out.

[Kosk]

Rode this morning while most of you were still sleeping, including the Dakota Guy that unlocks the gate :zzz:..... Ended up parking over on the Galaxie side.

The trails are all in perfect condition, tacky enough so it is super grippy to rally the corners, but not so soft that you pick up mud or leave tracks. Perfect dirt consistancy IMO. Get out and ride, it ain't cold, this is MN, 40s is shorts weather. It'll only get better as the day warms up. The outer loop is a blast right now, so fast, especially from the X meeting area down to that last bridge before the field.

The teeter is upright and in place. If I were you I would stop and check it out for yourself, make a judgement call and own up to your actions if something goes amiss. John gave us all fair warning and somebody went and tipped it back up in place. It felt/sounded/looked to be in functional when I rode it.

Keep the rubber down. PK

[tedsti]

Leb is in fantactic shape. The lot was pretty much full at around 3:30 pm. It was good to see a considerable number of women out riding today (several even without the usual obligatory BF).

On the downside, I had to stop and talk to a girl in her upper teens and her grandmother who were walking the wrong way on Dream Trail. I tried to get them to turn around, but they just said "We'll hop out of the way if we see someone coming". Good luck with that.......

[LightWeight]

The trail is in terrible shape. Everyone better just stay home. Trust me, if you go, you'll be sorry... ;)

On a slightly more serious note. Thanks once again everyone who has put time in at Leb (and all the other trails for that matter). Even though my legs feel like jell-o now I can't wipe the smile off my face. Ahhh... Sweet singletrack!! :D

[2BOutside]

I'll second Lightweight's comments - the ride out there was sweet today! Too bad tomorrow's a Monday... :-( Perfect cross between hard pack, and just soft enough.

Hope everyone enjoyed themselves today!

Excellent trail guys.

Kudos to Tony for the guide IQ today - great ride! :D

[RedSquirrel]

All-

I too agree with comments on conditions (pre-rain). Also, early AM is the best time.

Today the early temp was 48 degrees then fell to 46 by the 8:00am hour. Pleasant surprise vs. the 38 degree fcst.

I put in three laps, two w/advanced & expert loops. Yes, I was on trail by 6:30am. The dirt was tacky to dry in spots. The ground was dark, damp and white/brown(dry) in most spots too. What that means is there is still dark, moist areas full of your sweat from last year and winter, the rest is dry. No mud was seen & no earth stuck to my tires. Wish u were there.
:crazy:
I was out of the park by 8:20am, that's when the rain (Doom) hit. I timed it perfect. With the baro falling and rain near, no dew was seen tis morn! That's how it works u know. All obstacles and bridges we're full speed.

2 bad about the rain this week!!! The ground is still freash and rain will cause comments and concerns by the trail lords...

end

[soupboy]

...yesterday. It was fantastical. The only disappointment was to see the rumor that gnomes had used the logs (you know which ones I'm talking about) to heat their gnome-holes this past winter was false.

[gopherhockey]

I haven't been out at leb for a while as I was away at a conference - is the teeter still upright? If so, we need to get it taken out of operation. I guess I'll have to drag out a chain and lock it down or something... just want to verify.

[bigwheel]

I haven't been out at leb for a while as I was away at a conference - is the teeter still upright? If so, we need to get it taken out of operation. I guess I'll have to drag out a chain and lock it down or something... just want to verify.

Why don't we just fix it? I'm willing to help tonight if it is not raining. I have tools, and can make a run to the hardware store for whatever else we need.

I haven't been to Leb yet this year, so I don't know what is wrong with it. I do remember the end board falling off last year. I know a good way to fix that.

[gopherhockey]

Problem is I don't know exactly what is needed to fix it... but that is definitely the ultimate thing to do. I think the powers that be want it out of operation until it can be fixed and verified with the county, which means even after we fix it we need to lock it down until Dakota gives the thumbs up again.

It has cracks leading away from where the hole was cut for the teeter to pivot. I'm afraid this might require some major re-work to fix, but I'm no teeter engineer ;) That end cap needs fixing too, but its a minor issue compared to the cracks.

I think we need to try and get people to stop doubling up on the teeter as well - its hard on it to have that much weight on the teeter. I'm sure it didn't cause the issue, but I'm sure it didn't help. Probably the fact that the teeter bounces around and gets twisted doesn't help either - we should place it better once it is fixed so it doesnt' move around.


Why don't we just fix it? I'm willing to help tonight if it is not raining. I have tools, and can make a run to the hardware store for whatever else we need.

I haven't been to Leb yet this year, so I don't know what is wrong with it. I do remember the end board falling off last year. I know a good way to fix that.

[Trevize1138]

D'oh ... I rode the teeter Sunday! Hmm ... seemed to work just fine but there was nothing indicating that it shouldn't be used. People taking down ribbon and all that? Oof ... if it's ready to break then those people are creating a danger not just to themselves but other people (me! :mad: ).

Yeah, what needs to be done to either fix the teeter or make sure we get it OFF the trail and out of comission until we have a plan? Perhaps we need to temporarily dismantle it, wrap it up in a big chain with a lock and stow it in the bushes?

[gopherhockey]

I have a chain, but it is big - heavy, and I haven't been around to drag it out there... I'd like to put up a sign too explaning why its not available... maybe mention that volunteers and MORC memberships would get it back sooner ;)

[Trevize1138]

I have a chain, but it is big - heavy, and I haven't been around to drag it out there... I'd like to put up a sign too explaning why its not available... maybe mention that volunteers and MORC memberships would get it back sooner ;)

You're assuming that people who rip down tape and signs to ride illegal terrain are actually literate? Oh, John, we need to talk ... :crazy:

[gopherhockey]

You're assuming that people who rip down tape and signs to ride illegal terrain are actually literate? Oh, John, we need to talk ... :crazy:

Good point! :laugh: :scream: :fool:

[bigwheel]

I have a chain, but it is big - heavy, and I haven't been around to drag it out there... I'd like to put up a sign too explaning why its not available... maybe mention that volunteers and MORC memberships would get it back sooner ;)

If you'd like, I can make a run over there this afternoon/evening, pull the pivot pipe (to render it inoperable) and drag it deeper into the woods. I can also tape a sign to the it.

Since it's too wet to ride, it's either trail work or mow the lawn tonight.

[gopherhockey]

Sorry I got back so late with an answer.. yes, if ya wanna make the teeter inop that would be cool. i doubt I'll get out there for a few more days yet... it would be a good idea to have this thing taken care of to save from any liability issues.

I'll still probably have to lock it eventually or someone will drag the teeter and try make a bridge out of it somewhere... you know, those people who don't read signs etc :eyeroll:


If you'd like, I can make a run over there this afternoon/evening, pull the pivot pipe (to render it inoperable) and drag it deeper into the woods. I can also tape a sign to the it.

Since it's too wet to ride, it's either trail work or mow the lawn tonight.

[bigwheel]

Just got back from Leb.

I unscrewed one of the legs from the pivot pipe and took the platform off. I laid the platform down on the ground so that the riders can ride along the platform, even if it is sitting flat on the ground.

I tossed the legs into the woods, and taped signs to each leg, explaing what is wrong, and saying to check out morcmtb if they want to help the volunteers maintain the trail.

The teeter is now inoperable, but someone can easily put it back together in about 5 minutes without tools.

Looks like there was one bike there earlier in the afternoon.

Trail condition: Sloppy mess. Don't ride it.

[soupboy]

...the Trenchlayer was out there. I too rode Leb on Sunday and it appeared the teeter was askew so I did not ride it.

Shame on you Trenchlayer.

Sean

[biker joe]

:crazy: "I too rode Leb on Sunday and it appeared the teeter was askew so I did not ride it."

Is Leb open or not? I'm getting the feeling that it is open by your posting

[Trevize1138]

I'd be curious to know, too. Theo is open now as it seems to have held up to the recent weather but we don't have a current Leb report since the rains this week. Anybody got some info?

My guess would be it's OK, but that's just based on my knowledge of how well the trails typically recover after rain because they're so well-built ;).

I'd recommend heading out there, do a lap around the beginner loop and evaluate from there. If you're not leaving major tire marks and the trail's only sorta damp on the very surface it's rideable!

[bigwheel]

I'd be curious to know, too.

Me too.

I'm planning on riding somewhere this afternoon, but don't want to mess up any trails. I was going to just ride dirt roads, but was pleasantly surprised to see the posts that Wirth is rideable.

If anyone has any info, I'd appreciate if you post something.

[biker joe]

:crazy: I called dakota county and they said the trails were open, wether or not they are muddy I don't know.

[bigwheel]

Just got back. Excellent condition! Tacky, but firm. Fast and good traction.

I wasn't even expecting to be able to ride. What a nice surprise:)

[ryno lite]

I'm not surprised, we really didn't get much rain this week. I had less than a quarter of an inch. The upcoming forecast looks pretty dry, so we should be in for a good week of riding!

[jeffgude]

Trail was good this am. Surface is moist, not soft. Parking lot was nearly full at 11:00 am.

I looked at the teeter - not being an expert, I agree that it needs some maintenance before being put back in service. The crack near the pivot is a concern.

[kegger]

Tried to ride this am and the gate was closed. The MORC letter on the board said to stay off until May 1. Did I miss something? I was set for the first ride of the season but went to Denny's instead- I was looking to burn about 700 calories but ate about 800 instead.

If the gate is closed, should we stay off? I promise to help do some trail work this summer...

[bigwheel]

Hi dave, welcome to the boards.

You must have missed something. Leb has been open for over a week, and there has been a lot of chatter on the boards. My understanding was that May 1 was a target date, but actual opening depends mainly on when the trail is dry enough to ride, which happened about a week ago.

I think your problem today was that you got there before the park service opened the gate. I think he opens the gate around 7am and closes it around 10pm. You can still ride outside of this time, but you will need to park on the other side of the soccer fields and ride in.

I hope you still have time to ride there today.





Tried to ride this am and the gate was closed. The MORC letter on the board said to stay off until May 1. Did I miss something? I was set for the first ride of the season but went to Denny's instead- I was looking to burn about 700 calories but ate about 800 instead.

If the gate is closed, should we stay off? I promise to help do some trail work this summer...

[dejorn]

Rode Lebanon early Sunday morning and the conditions were wonderful (allbeit cool). The trails had the best grip I have seen you could rail around the turns with absolutly no sliping. The new single track, in the beginning, is starting to get "ridden in" and has smoothed out somewhat. Overall the trail weathered the winter months extremely well. Some of the rocks, in the XX, have grown over the winter. I am now missing a few teeth on my large chainring as a result of the last drop exiting the long rock garden in the XX. I will say that I am getting increasingly frustrated with the weather forcasts, the Saturday night news was predicting snow/sleet/rain overnight. I almost cancelled an early ride with a friend, but glad I didn't. We were both grinning from ear to ear the entire time.

Thanks again to the Lebanon crew for creating and maintaining a wonderful trail.

[manual63]

Just rode Leb today for the first time this year. Nice....very nice. Leb is a great trail. Dream 2 is.....well....a dream. I love that section and I can fly down it full toooot! Nice and flowing corners with some tech....very nice. Hope we can keep it from getting sandy again, but that's going to be tough.

Leb rocks right now!!

[Trevize1138]

Lebanon truly is a shining example of what MORC does. :) I don't ride it as much strictly because Theo is so close for me, but the one time I've been out there this year I just marveled at how perfect that trail is. It's also nice that it's "done" to a degree. Certainly, there needs to be maintenance here and there, but it's so cool to have this trail finally in its finished form.

I'm in a lovin' MORC mood lately. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[soupboy]

...so fresh and so clean, clean. Got in a couple hours this AM. Excellent condition.

Managed to take my first header off the "camel back" when my platform pedal lodged itself on a plank. Fell from the top and at 6'3" it was not a short fall. Simply invigorating.

My knees and shins look like a horde of gnomes attacked me with their mini hammers and sickles.

Sean

[Hathor]

Yeah I was out there this morning, too. Maybe that was you that passed me in your MORC jersey, Sean? Anyway, it was basically perfect. Seems like a lot of people were ditching work today, because it was more crowded than usual for the a.m. Those of you who haven't left work yet, go now. It's beautiful! It was my first ride of the year, though, and