Trail Conditions in Detail - Lebanon Hills

[El Chupacabra]

How long does it take to dry up after a rain like that? I'm supposed to be meeting someone at Leb tomorrow at 10:30 am and would like to avoid the drive from here if the trails aren't dry enough.

[Lezgo Cycling]

How long does it take to dry up after a rain like that? I'm supposed to be meeting someone at Leb tomorrow at 10:30 am and would like to avoid the drive from here if the trails aren't dry enough.

I think with as warm as it is today ....they like at LEAST 24 hours after the rain. You should be fine

[Lezgo Cycling]

Yep, I'm tryin' to get the wife to switch our plans to the morning so I can join you and Eric.

all right hope to see ya there...im hearing some good things of this cd of yours. How much is it ? I would like one I think

[THUMP!]

all right hope to see ya there...im hearing some good things of this cd of yours. How much is it ? I would like one I think

I'll give you one for free as we just pulled a bunch from our online retailers after the band folded. Just catch me at a group ride as I have the box in my trunk at the moment. You can preview it at www.myspace.com/fullstack (http://www.myspace.com/fullstack) or www.fullstackrock.com (http://www.fullstackrock.com).

[Lezgo Cycling]

all right.. well then I hope to see you sunday and ill grab one. thanks

[El Chupacabra]

Thanks for the heads up. If I get there and it's still wet tomorrow maybe I'll find some places to ride around the city.

[Lezgo Cycling]

Thanks for the heads up. If I get there and it's still wet tomorrow maybe I'll find some places to ride around the city.

if it doesnt rain again today Theo should be good by tomorrow

[gopherhockey]

Ahhh.. whats happening to my Leb conditions thread :banghead: :p

[Lezgo Cycling]

Ahhh.. whats happening to my Leb conditions thread :banghead: :p

why whatever are you talking about :confused: I thought we were all on the same team here :eyeroll: dont check the Leb OC thread then :kiss:

[Pandl]

Ahhh.. whats happening to my Leb conditions thread :banghead: :p CAn't you just take control and delete all these non topic posts? Man, that would keep you busy away from DLG.

[Disaster on Wheels]

Anybody know how the trail is?

[bakkeb]

Anybody know how the trail is?

just talked to someone who was just there to check it out and he said it was closed.:etard:

[gopherhockey]

just talked to someone who was just there to check it out and he said it was closed.:etard:

Sounds like Dakota County is cracking down on the riding that is happening so quickly after a rain. I didn't get a notification of a closing this time around, but I'll believe it.

Most likely will re-open tomorrow (Sat)

We are meeting with Dakota County this winter to iron out the whole open-closing process again to make it even better next year. For now I'm glad they kept it closed today... people need to start getting the hint about not riding so soon after and this is one way to do it.

[ryno lite]

Sounds like Dakota County is cracking down on the riding that is happening so quickly after a rain. I didn't get a notification of a closing this time around, but I'll believe it.

Most likely will re-open tomorrow (Sat)

We are meeting with Dakota County this winter to iron out the whole open-closing process again to make it even better next year. For now I'm glad they kept it closed today... people need to start getting the hint about not riding so soon after and this is one way to do it.

Great to hear!

[springbok]

Quite a dumping last night. I'd say a Friday ride isn't out of the question, but waiting as late as possible is advised.

Drove by on Fri (yesterday - 9/21) @ 5.20pm ish and the gates were closed! :(

I imagine the wind has battered our beloved trees again.

[viv]

Drove all the way there in rush hour on Friday....the gates were closed...turned around and hit Murphy which was in perfect condition.....Leb surely is open today???

[viv]

Anyone ever have difficulty getting to the latest post? Is it a Mac thing? I made my previous post before I saw any mention of the trails being closed.

[Danimal]

Anyone know if Leb is good-to-go today? 9-22-07?

[Disaster on Wheels]

Anyone know if Leb is good-to-go today? 9-22-07?

A few of us are heading up there this morning... we will let you know!

[Greendog]

I rode this morning. It was dry except for a few low spots. There were a lot of people riding. There is a medium size tree down about a quarter of the way into the single X loop, and a smaller one across the trail on the back side of the dream loop.

[Danimal]

Thanks for the update!

[Disaster on Wheels]

The trail is in great condition, nice and tacky, and it couldn't be better weather to ride in! The tree is down right after the ramp between the trees in the x-loop, but that is the only one that requires walking over.

[tedsti]

Yup, things are pretty tacky and fast. There is also a tree down on the int-out that may require some to get off of their bikes. There are also several small ones that can easily be ridden over.

[soupboy]

Condition: Simply glorious. Two downed trees - one in X and one in Dream. Need chainsaw.

[Pandl]

very crowded, couple wet spots, couple downed trees, as listed previously. One wet spot is in the beginner/warm-up trail.

[rihaha]

Wonderful day to ride. Put in my 2 laps. What has been said pretty much covers it besides the branch on the itm-out but it is totally rideable.

[charliebrown]

The trail got better and better as the day went on, there is also a small tree down after the rock jump in the int right before where the X dumps out to meet it...

[gopherhockey]

The trail got better and better as the day went on, there is also a small tree down after the rock jump in the int right before where the X dumps out to meet it...

I got that small tree - it took forever to saw through but its gone now.

Had the trail all to myself tonight... strange thing is that it really wasn't all that fun. I guess I prefer group riding.

There are a couple of deer causing troubles out there - be careful.

[qheuie]

There are a couple of deer causing troubles out there - be careful.

how dare they :p

[Rooster]

Just got done riding at 8pm, hit a deer!!! not hard though, scared me worse then him. well he was pooping as he ran away, so maybe we was more scared

[gopherhockey]

Ted and I removed the big tree following the bridge in the X loop. No need to create new trail, the existing one is clear again.

[Pandl]

THANKS Ted & John!!

[Smurf]

Trail is clear and in good shape.....not to make more work though, but the first or second log pile after the entrance to the X loop is pretty torn up....might be time to make it bigger....

[ryno lite]

Thanks John and Ted! Trail was in great condition today.

[jitterjepp]

I was out at Lebanon Hills today for the first time in two years and let me tell you.. Man, you guys totally messed up that trail. What a piece of junk.

Kidding...:)
It was awesome!!
I'm going to start getting down there AT LEAST once a week. In the last two years I haven't had any fast down hilly rocky action except for the yearly pilgrimage to Afton and Maah Daah Hey and well, some other stuff too but it was all really far away and really hot and I almost died from heat stroke and alcohol poisoning.

I had a blast out there today. The big sharp rocks and new side trail features are pretty cool. You can really get flying on that trail and just pound through the rocks. I felt like I did when I used ride dirt bikes when I was Kid- riding along fast flying off drop-offs, jumping and beating the hell out of my bicycle. The 29er wheels seem to love the trail too. Awesome.
Seriously.

[Hathor]

Good news for those of you that are into personal injury/head trauma: Apparently it is helmet-free day at Lebanon today. I saw 3 people in separate groups out there today with no helmets on. :nono:

A friend of mine broke her elbow and cracked her helmet in a fall out there last week just by hitting a rock the wrong way. She is a pilot too, so she can't work for 4 weeks. If she didn't have her helmet on, she might have been out of a job for good, because for some reason, they frown upon pilots with head injuries.

I always feel like saying something to these people, but then I figure if they don't think they have anything worth protecting up there, than neither do I.

[stoneage]

sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh damnit!!!!!!!
I'm getting older. I may need body parts and these guys are making sure there's a fresh supply.

[Pandl]

Maybe that is a trend starting there. Last Sat I saw a few people without helmets, different groups, and this Saturday I saw one guy without one.

Instead of stating that you rode over a certain obsticle, you state I made it thru alive without a helmet on.

[ryno lite]

Good news for those of you that are into personal injury/head trauma: Apparently it is helmet-free day at Lebanon today. I saw 3 people in separate groups out there today with no helmets on. :nono:

A friend of mine broke her elbow and cracked her helmet in a fall out there last week just by hitting a rock the wrong way. She is a pilot too, so she can't work for 4 weeks. If she didn't have her helmet on, she might have been out of a job for good, because for some reason, they frown upon pilots with head injuries.

I always feel like saying something to these people, but then I figure if they don't think they have anything worth protecting up there, than neither do I.

It must be helmet free week or month out there. It was the same way yesterday. I especially shake my head as they head over the obstacles. Oh well, have fun being a vegetable the rest of your life!

[Smurf]

I saw one guy out there without a helmet on yesterday....just a do-rag, a pair of shorts and his I-pod.....not real smart if you ask me....

[Ish]

I always feel like saying something to these people,

As Bill sugested, just ask them if they have their organ donor cards filled out.

[bigwheel]

Just got back from a lunchtime lap. Conditions are excellent. Get in your ride before the rain happens.

[ryno lite]

Just got back from a lunchtime lap. Conditions are excellent. Get in your ride before the rain happens.

Hope the boss doesn't catch you!

[gopherhockey]

Leb got a good dose of rain last night (as did many metro trails). As always, give it time to dry out. With the cooler fall-like weather please remember that it will take longer to dry.

I suspect it may be ok by evening...

[kiano]

Does any one know about trail conditions after last night's rain in Lebby? I am hoping to go for a couple of laps after work. I'll wear my helmet by the way ;)

[charliebrown]

There is a HUGE tree down right at the bottom of the last down hill before turning to go over the bridge and heading back toward the beginner loop. If you need help clearing it let me know...

[gopherhockey]

Does any one know about trail conditions after last night's rain in Lebby? I am hoping to go for a couple of laps after work. I'll wear my helmet by the way ;)

Hard to say - its been wet, and this made it even worse. If you must ride definitely hold off as long as possible.

We have a group ride planned - I'm going to check out the conditions tomorrow and cancel if necessary - I'll post up perhaps in the afternoon.

[jag]

Trail was dry and tacky tonight. I have no idea what happened after 6pm though. That downed tree is blocking the trail and forcing riders to shorcut through the woods a little.

[gopherhockey]

Trail was dry and tacky tonight. I have no idea what happened after 6pm though. That downed tree is blocking the trail and forcing riders to shorcut through the woods a little.

I'll see if I can't take care of that tomorrow as well...

[ryno lite]

Quite a year for storms littering our metro trails with trees!

[gopherhockey]

THe tree has been removed. (trees is more like it) A huge oak split and took down like 8 other trees... it was a real mess. I'd caution everyone to take it easy coming around that downhill right turn (just before the last bridge when Dream goes out and eventually meets up to the beginner loop). Its really no different, but if you drift to the outside you're going to eat trees now.

There were riders out there - I saw no mud on their bikes but it was pretty damp. Should be ok by tonight.

One guy said there were about 12 wet spots... so take it easy around corners etc.

[gopherhockey]

Trail was damp last night, had some water standing in a few places - the start of the beginner loop was probably the worst - I'd avoid that particular section for another day.

There is a tree hanging pretty low in the X after the bridge on your way up to Tedman's. Be careful, it has a branch sticking down. We'll get that one out of there soon.

We got some donated lumber to build... (something) out of. It has some nails and hardware still in it though, so if anyone is looking for something to volunteer PM me. The sooner the hardware is pulled out the sooner we can make something out of it. (some kind of skinny, bridge, obstacle etc.) Its all piled up on the Galaxie side just up the hiking trail to the right.

[Drew K.]

Do you think it will be ok around one this afternoon?

[gopherhockey]

Do you think it will be ok around one this afternoon?

Yup, should be good by then for sure.

[widespot]

Super tacky this morning at 9:30, hurry rain's a coming.

[Yammer]

Did the trail get wet today?
Wondering about an AM ride on Sunday.

[gopherhockey]

Just got back from Levis but it looks like its been raining good here in the metro today... guessing Sunday riding is now off.

[multiaxial]

Seems like we got a fair amount of rain in Minneapolis. Assuming that the forecast for sunny weather on Monday holds, shall I pack up the mtn bike for a ride at Leb on Monday eve or stick to the road?

[gopherhockey]

Its pretty wet out and not drying very quickly. I didn't get a total rain amount for yesterday, but my driveway still isn't dry yet so I'm guessing its pretty iffy out there.

BTW: A HUGE thank you to Eric Philipp for pulling the nails out of some boards we will eventually use for an obstacle. He apparently broke 2 hammers and spent almost 3 hours out there pulling nails... I think we'll have to name the obstacle after him for that effort!

[gopherhockey]

Rumor has it the gates are closed at Leb today... I received no notice but got an email from someone else stating this.

Regardless it shouldn't be ridden anyway... but thought I'd add that it looks like Dakota officially closed em' today.

[gopherhockey]

Its raining in Eagan and it looks like more is on the way. Have not heard if the trail is open again today. Best to wait to see what the rain does today before making plans.

[gopherhockey]

Rain rain and more rain.. don't expect Leb to be open anytime soon. A good long day of sun is needed, so Thursday at the earliest I'm guessing... assuming nice weather tomorrow.

Don't forget - if the sun is out tomorrow it doesn't necessarily mean the trail is dry enough or even open.

[gopherhockey]

Sun is out as is the wind. I haven't heard from Dakota County but I'm assuming at this point that the trail is closed today. Maybe if someone drives by they can give us a report. (not sure why I can't get a hold of anyone at DC)

I may go out there and hike around today to see how things look - if so I'll report back.

My gut is telling me if it were dry it wouldn't be until very very late if at all even though the sun makes it feel like it should dry up quickly. For the sake of the trail I'd give it today to dry out and plan your ride for Thursday. Better yet, join us on the Thursday night ride! It should be in great shape by then.

There are lots of days to ride... resist that urge and the trails will all thank you in the long run.

[gopherhockey]

Just got back from Leb and the gate is open, as are the trails. I *think* this was by mistake, but all the same it means the trail should be open tomorrow as well.

Anyway... its open, but I'd still suggest not riding it until tomorrow. We hiked in and some of the trail was solid, but there were a lot of mud spots and some standing water. (I'll post up a pic I got on my phone) Bikes coming out looked as if they were picking up a fair amount of mud.

I wasn't going to post this, but I thought its only fair to keep the openings and closings listed as soon as I know about them. I'm counting on people to not load up and head out just after reading this.

We're always full of reminders... and I know many of you get sick of them.. but I should add that gates up = closed, but gates open sill means that all riders need to use their judgement. Dakota dosn't close the trails every single time its too wet to ride, so you can't just use that as an indication of ok to ride or not.

Uh... why can't it be dry out so we can stop with all the trail issues for a while. I'm tired!

From this afternoon at Leb:


http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/513/IMAGE_00027.jpg

[egoo]

much better today! should be perfect tonight...

[bikeoutback]

It rained this morning.... it rained hard, I would bet trail is definatly not rideable right now.

[gopherhockey]

Just got word from Dakota County and we both decided it would be best to close down the trail.

Lebanon Hills is closed and will remain closed all weekend due to recent rains combined with Sunday's forecast.

Please respect the trails and stay off when closed.

[Patrick F]

There's a pile of trees down at the bottom of the intermediate-out section. It's right after the limestone tiling section.

[gopherhockey]

Ok, revised conditions for Leb.

Apparently there is someone that has a key to the gate at Leb that is opening it after the county locks it. They are going to try figure out who is doing this. (apparently mountain bikers aren't the only ones who can't figure out that closed means closed)

The gate got opened back up. Dakota was going to try re-close it, but I talked to them about the idea that we'll have sun tomorrow as well and the trail might dry up by noon.

Regardless of the lot being open or closed, we did just have rain this morning up to about noon. Please wait until tomorrow noon before riding... there are wet spots that are getting bad so even if 80% or so of the trail is ok its damaging the rest, so we're asking people to stay off. Please!

[gopherhockey]

More rain coming down at 9pm Friday night on top of an already wet trail. Again, give it some time.. thanks!

[gopherhockey]

Even more rain last night and this morning. Leb is too wet to ride today.

How about stop by the MORC Summit today instead - join us for an urban ride!

Most metro trails are probably too wet to ride, so best to plan for Sunday (if it doesn't rain then)

Again, don't let the sunny 80 degree weather fool ya... the trails need more time to dry than your sidewalk...

[Rooster]

still too wet ? ? ? ?

[gopherhockey]

Trail should be ok today - ride befire it rains!!

We'll have trailwork out there at 1pm, so if anyone is interested in helping build some new trail... meet us at the Galaxie entrance. Would love to see ya there.

Otherwise enjoy your ride while you can - supposed to rain this afternoon.

[gopherhockey]

Rain is coming down putting an end to any Monday riding plans. Stay tuned for Tuesday, which might also be pushing it.

Thanks for not riding wet trails.

[gopherhockey]

From Dakota County:

The mountain bike trails at Lebanon Hills have been closed due to rain until further notice.

The parking lot will remain closed/locked during this time.

Please do not ride the trails until the land manager has re-opened them.

[bigwheel]

Tuesday Oct 9 -- TRAIL CLOSED

Gate is open, but Dakota still has the orange fences up. The trail is all damp, and there are some mud holes that don't appear to be drying very fast. It will be at least another day before the trail is ridable.

Regarding the down tree on Dream: I hiked in with the chainsaw today to take care of the tree. Somebody had already gotten there and cut the tree out.

Whoever did this: Thanks! But in the future, please coordinate this with John, Ted or myself. First, it takes about an hour and a half to get equipment together and hike in. I'd rather not make unnecessary trips during my lunch hour. Second, we have to be careful, because according to the rules, a dirt boss has to be there for any major work, and only certain people are approved to run chainsaws in the park.

If you did this with a hand saw on a ride, please PM me, and I'll make sure that you get rep points for helping out. Again, THANKS, but please coordinate it with one of us.

Bob S.

[Jackrabbit Slim]

I bet it was the gnome/ goblin

[V2Neal]

As of 3:00PM today Dakota County still has the gate's closed and the snowfence across the trail entrances. :cryin:

[pitts]

As of 3:00PM today Dakota County still has the gate's closed and the snowfence across the trail entrances. :cryin:

AMAZING, this was posted a minute after I left gear and all hopeing that the trail was open... Dang the bad timing

[gopherhockey]

I got word that Leb is open again. It was opened sometime yesterday but I didn't get the noficiation until this morning.

Gates are open, fences are rolled up, get out and ride!

[gopherhockey]

Trail is in good tacky condition.

There are a few wet and muddy spots in a few select areas, mostly in the beginner loop but a few scatered around the trail. These are areas that will need to be fixed eventually as they aren't draining or shedding water properly... please just ride through the center of these areas as to not cause the trail to widen.

Enjoy the trail!

[gopherhockey]

From Dakota County:

The mountain bike trails at Lebanon Hills will be closed today due to the rain. The gates to the parking lot will remain locked.

---

By the looks of the weather this week it might be closed for a while...

[gopherhockey]

The weather shows some improvement today, but I would not count on the trail being dry or open. Forecast is for more rain later in the week. Dakota County still has the trails and lot closed.

Please stay tuned here before riding or heading out to ride. I would guess most trails in the metro are going to need more than just today to sufficiently dry out.

I know everyone is itching to get out there... please be patient, once we get through this rainy spell there will be plenty more riding to be done.

Thanks!

[crux]

From all the posts seems like Leb has been closed most of the season.

[Pandl]

I was thinking Leb was open most of the summer. Maybe the fall season has been wet, but I thought when the rain started lately, people had mentioned how dry the summer was, and how there wasn't many mosquitoes, since it was so dry. but, I am kind of a half full glass kind of guy.

[charliebrown]

From all the posts seems like Leb has been closed most of the season.

I rode Lebanon at least 4 to 5 days a week most of the summer, it was never closed that I remember... So I couldn't disagree with your comment more. Since we have been getting all of our rain here in the fall it has been closed a lot which is a good thing for the trail.

[bigwheel]

From all the posts seems like Leb has been closed most of the season.

Troll! :mad: Even Andy (who is 1,000 miles away) knows that no news is usually good news. There's not much reason to post when conditions are exactly the same as the day before and everyone already knows that the trail is open.


Right now, the trail is closed (by Dakota County), and anyone that went outside in the last few days know why.

[V2Neal]

The weather reported last night that in the past 3 months we have had 17" of rain. That could be the reason for the recent frequent trail closures.
Smile, the paved paths never close. Get out and ride. :)

[bikeoutback]

Wet, still wet, staying wet. If you were considering driving considerable distance to visit Leb I'd recommend leaving your bike at home. (just keeping the conditions up to date.... still wet)

[djcn0te]

10/20 11:45AM -- Anyone checked it out this morning? Dry windy weather all night, dry sun this morning... maybe still a little too early.

[V2Neal]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Why the BLEEP does the county even bother to open the gates and keep the trails closed?! No less that 8 cars in the lot and I encountered 4 riders ON the trail. Why aren't there any signs indicating the trails are closed? I mentioned this to one rider about to enter.
As of 1:30 PM, the trails remain CLOSED and WET. There are/were multiple trees (deadfall) blocking the trails. I removed the majority, leaving two that you'll need to duck for. Managed to drain 4 or 5 of the most offensive puddles, and fill a plastic bag with various water bottles and one Starbucks ice coffee cup. I'd give the trail at least until tomorrow afternoon, preferably til Monday to be really decent. Just my unprofessional opinion here, no science involved.

One of the more demanding tree's ...

[crux]

Troll! :mad: Even Andy (who is 1,000 miles away) knows that no news is usually good news. There's not much reason to post when conditions are exactly the same as the day before and everyone already knows that the trail is open.


Right now, the trail is closed (by Dakota County), and anyone that went outside in the last few days know why.

Sure guess you could call me a troll since I'm not local anymore, but just wanted to keep in touch with my friends.

Funny thing is there is absolutly no reason to watch the weather here. Conditions are gong to be sunny with a slight chance of a downpour covering a city block in the afternoon. If your on the trails and they are wet wait 5 min and they will dry. Only time you really get in trouble is if your on the ridge and lightning rolls in or your in the canyon and a wall of water catches you.

Sorry to hear that your having a wet fall, but not to worry I'm not out riding as much as one would think. We got a house here and it is somewhat of a fixer upper. This weekend is perfect riding weather, but I got the flu:sick: and need to paint several rooms:banghead: .

[ryno lite]

Sure guess you could call me a troll since I'm not local anymore, but just wanted to keep in touch with my friends.

Funny thing is there is absolutly no reason to watch the weather here. Conditions are gong to be sunny with a slight chance of a downpour covering a city block in the afternoon. If your on the trails and they are wet wait 5 min and they will dry. Only time you really get in trouble is if your on the ridge and lightning rolls in or your in the canyon and a wall of water catches you.

Sorry to hear that your having a wet fall, but not to worry I'm not out riding as much as one would think. We got a house here and it is somewhat of a fixer upper. This weekend is perfect riding weather, but I got the flu:sick: and need to paint several rooms:banghead: .

Yep, home ownership is great, but it sucks your time up!

[tedsti]

We had a lot of rain people, and while it is sunny and windy, the temps only recently got warm enough to do much in the way of drying the trail. Give it at least until tomorrow.

[Yammer]

The gates were still closed, as of 1 PM today (Sunday).

Murphy is ridable.

[MikeyB]

Opening today? Looking for a night ride fix.

[bigwheel]

We will check in again with Dakota County today. I'll plan to also walk in today at lunch to check it out. Stay tuned for a post this afternoon.

According to emails, it was still pretty wet yesterday. Thanks for staying away while it has been closed. If Leb is still closed tonight, I might also consider Theo.

[MikeyB]

Thanks for checking. If it's still too wet Theo and Harmon is always an option.

[bigwheel]

One of the more demanding tree's ...

Where was this?

[V2Neal]

X-loop right before the small camelback bridge.
Me and 4 riders that came by moved it to the left on that pic. It's off the trail, so no longer a problem.

[bigwheel]

Monday 10/22 noon

I just got back. The gate is still locked, and the the fence is up (other than where the poachers pushed it to the side). I walked the beginner, plus most of Dream, and part of Dream-II. I also propped the fence back up.

The trail is still damp, with a couple very wet spots. (The wet spots are problem areas that get aggravated and need repair every time people ride it wet. We will have to do some serious armoring on them. If you were one of the poachers, please join us to see how much fun this is. :mad: )

Ted is going to contact Dakota County and compare notes with them. Hopefully, they will open the trail this afternoon, in time to ride this evening. But this is the county's ultimate decision, and they will ticket you (with our blessing) if they catch you riding the trail when it is closed. So, please don't ride while the gate is locked or the orange fences are up.

Watch here for updates

[bigwheel]

Just a quick update....

Leb is still closed, but we have been trying for the last day to contact Dakota County. Our fingers are crossed with the hope that they will open it today (10/23) ASAP.

But if the gate is closed and/or the orange fences are still up, then please stay away.

[tedsti]

Just got off the horn with Dakota County. The trails should be opening up shortly. Have fun and watch out for any debris and fallen trees that may be on the trail after the storms.

[James]

Rode at noon, trail is overall in nice condition, though some spots with water collection issues took serious abuse from poachers over the last couple of weeks.
No downed trees, but some branches/debris here and there.

Fantastic day for a ride, get out if you can!

[bigwheel]

10/23 8pm

Leb is in decent shape. A few muddy spots in the low areas, but otherwise dry.

We took out the handful of down branches and the tree that was down in the stair step section at the end of the XX.

Enjoy.

[doc]

The trail is in good shape. A little hard to pick the rocks through the leaf piles.

[MikeyB]

Trail was great today. Little slippery around some corners with the leaves and pine needles.

[gopherhockey]

Trail is in good condition. Removed a few face slappers and the un-approved log pile that somehow formed in the X loop.

The leaves aren't causing much of a ride issue right now but they are piling up on the outside of the trail where they will cause problems later on.

The yearly hunting is taking place again at Leb - I'll post up more details on that in a separate post.

[RedSquirrel]

Got me nervious. Did I miss other thread post with "hunting" info?

Leb do-able this afternoon without being target practice???

[MadIrishman]

I'll be sure to leave my helmet with fake antlers and fluffy tail bike shorts at home!

[RedSquirrel]

Ok, found hunting dates listed on the home page, right hand side.

It appears a slower speed is required to stay alive today.

[MikeyB]

Leb good, me feel like pile.

[Mountain Jam]

Leb is riding nice, leaves are not much of an issue, except in the dreamtrail section. Get out and enjoy!

[Ish]

11/10 Trail is dry to tacky. Get some.

[Deputy Halik]

Trail was in good shape last night and the parking lot was mostly full. Trail was mostly dry, a tad tacky in some parts. There weren't any face slappers, nor debris anywhere to be found along the way.

[Hathor]

Yikes it was windy out there this afternoon. Felt like there were several trees on the verge of falling on me, so use caution if you are out tonight or tomorrow. One in particular was hanging high above the trail soon after the elevated/between the trees bridge in the X.

Anyone know the woman who drives a navy CRV? Just wondering because I have seen you out there the same time as me a couple of times. Today it looked like we had the same agenda: get in and bust out a quick lap and call it a day. The sleet in my face was a little annoying.

[Disaster on Wheels]

Yikes it was windy out there this afternoon. Felt like there were several trees on the verge of falling on me, so use caution if you are out tonight or tomorrow. One in particular was hanging high above the trail soon after the elevated/between the trees bridge in the X.



I noticed that tree was really moving in the wind yesterday afternoon too- I don't think it will stay hung up too much longer. with my luck I will get my camelbak or light stuck on it and it will fall right on top of me:p

[BG128]

Nice & tacky this morning. Temp was perfect for riding get out & enjoy!

[Disaster on Wheels]

It got pretty slick and a little muddy with the rain/snow this afternoon. I think it is still rideable if the snow stops, but watch the leaves!

[PJJ]

Anyone know the woman who drives a navy CRV? Just wondering because I have seen you out there the same time as me a couple of times. Today it looked like we had the same agenda: get in and bust out a quick lap and call it a day. The sleet in my face was a little annoying.

Hey, Liz, that was me!! I felt like such a pansy only doing one lap but hey, the sleet in the face annoyed me too. And, it was nice to exchange a "Hi" on Friday. If you're riding Monday, I'll be there around 12:30 or so weather/trail conditions permitting.
Friday, I finally got a chance to do the XX loop with my biking buddy and we stopped to disect all of the parts that were giving me grief (=> crashing/bruising/bailing-out) - - I even gave the teeter-totter a go (Teeter-tooter =12 times I bailed vs Me=2 clean rides). And I have 11 new bruises to go with it!

[Hathor]

Hey, Liz, that was me!! I felt like such a pansy only doing one lap but hey, the sleet in the face annoyed me too. And, it was nice to exchange a "Hi" on Friday. If you're riding Monday, I'll be there around 12:30 or so weather/trail conditions permitting.


Awesome - great to put a face with a name! I was thinking you would probably be on the boards since I have seen you out there so much. I am out of town working until Tuesday night and then have the family over for Thanksgiving. I am sure I will see you out there again soon, though, because I almost always ride on weekdays during the day. Hopefully we can do some laps together. Be proud of those bruises!

[Disaster on Wheels]

Will it be too wet to ride this afternoon?

[gopherhockey]

Trail is frozen with light snow and some ice covering. Be careful riding, and use some tires with decent grip. Nokian type studded tires are not out of the question.

[igor]

Trail was in awesome condition at 8:30 Saturday morning.

[Ish]

Sunday 11/25:

10:30 Frozen
12:30 thawing and soft in spots.

With the warmth and sun the trail is getting soft and damage could occur. Not sure what it is going to look like this afternoon. If you are heading out be prepared for varying conditions and please ride responsibly.

[redwood]

Monday 11/26 - perfect conditions. I only ride this trail every few months and I am always amazed by how well made and fun it is. It just keeps getting better. The bank turn on the new section of xx is the best one around. I was on my new single speed - I think the 33:16 that works at Theo Wirth was a little stiff at lebanon.

[gtbikes]

Monday 11/26 - perfect conditions. I only ride this trail every few months and I am always amazed by how well made and fun it is. It just keeps getting better. The bank turn on the new section of xx is the best one around. I was on my new single speed - I think the 33:16 that works at Theo Wirth was a little stiff at lebanon.

I've run 32:18 but now run 32:21. I think 32:19 would be better:D:D

[simpkins]

I had a blast riding on 11-24-07. Was the first time I rode Leb in about 10+ years. I like the improvements. Y'all crammed alot more into the area than what it used to be. Conditions I thought were excellent for late November in MN, frozen but only a few slick spots. Temp wasn't so bad either in the trees. Best of all was ridin with some OGs from the HHC.

Thanks Marty

[gopherhockey]

I had a blast riding on 11-24-07. Was the first time I rode Leb in about 10+ years. I like the improvements. Y'all crammed alot more into the area than what it used to be.

Hey Marty, thanks for the comments and glad you enjoyed the trail! Come back again for another ride soon. Look for some fun stuff to happen in 2008...

[ryno lite]

I had a blast riding on 11-24-07. Was the first time I rode Leb in about 10+ years. I like the improvements. Y'all crammed alot more into the area than what it used to be. Conditions I thought were excellent for late November in MN, frozen but only a few slick spots. Temp wasn't so bad either in the trees. Best of all was ridin with some OGs from the HHC.

Thanks Marty

Yeah, it was quite a change! We used to have 2 miles of crappy cross country ski trail and now we have about 8.5 miles of singletrack with all kind of obstacles. There have been all kinds of changes in our metro trails over the past 7 years. Murphy has changed from 4.5 miles of ski trail to 10 miles of singletrack. Glad you like the upgrades!

[gopherhockey]

Probably 6" or more fluffy snow fell today at Leb.

As most of you know, Leb is open for winter biking as long as the ground is frozen and/or there is significant snowcover.

HOWEVER... we must all STOP and yeild the right-of-way to skiiers, hikers and snowshoers during winter riding. The last thing we want is a conflict with the skiiers out there - it could put our winter riding in jeapordy. During the summer we don't notice the ski trail as they are typically closed.

We haven't put up all the STOP signs yet, but hopefully soon. Once they are up, please obey them... until they are up, please stop anyway.

Also, please keep to the trail. If you can't see existing trail, please don't blaze your own. We will get out and pack the trail down probably Tuesday and Thursdays until we can ride again.

As always, ride at your own risk. Winter conditions change quickly, so watch for ice and take extra caution on obstacles. Stay safe, stay warm....

[dave t]

On the Dream out, near the top, where it crosses the ski trail twice in 50 ft, are we supposed to bypass the loop like last year?

[bigwheel]

We need a stomp! (maybe Tuesday???)

I brought the Pugsley over there. Fresh snow cover, although it looks like someone rode part of it yesterday.

There is a slight boiler plate that made it too difficult for me to ride. I got in about 50 feet, half of it pushing the bike. Then, one fall and I decided to go home and grab the XC skis.


On the Dream out, near the top, where it crosses the ski trail twice in 50 ft, are we supposed to bypass the loop like last year?

Yes. Sorry that we haven't opened up the bypass yet. You can be the first if you don't mind.

[dave t]

We need a stomp! (maybe Tuesday???)


Yes. Sorry that we haven't opened up the bypass yet. You can be the first if you don't mind.

I tried to take a lap Sunday afternoon but the crisp top from the drizzle Saturday night and some foot traffic made it waaaaay more work than fun. I did the whole trail Saturday but I didn't even come close to that bypass section on Sunday. I only made it to the first jump before deciding to turn around.

The run back down to the lot was fun enough to get me to try the warm-up loop. With only one set of tracks at the start and pretty level it was easier but around the junction, some snowshoe tracks merged in and it got difficult again.

Toward the end, there were some ski tracks that were really easy to ride with compared to the snow shoe tracks.

My conclusions from riding both Saturday and Sunday:
1. The trail would be in primo condition for winter riding right now if there would have been a nice big group ride starting about 1:00 Saturday with Team Zamboni running clean-up to smooth out the ruts.
2. It's easiest either totally fresh or well packed. In between like it is now is tough going.
3. Skis seem to be an ideal trail packing method if the skiers would all make their own tracks insead of only the lead.
4. A good turn-out for a stomp with a variety of footwear even boots might get things in shape for some good riding.

[gopherhockey]

The trail is covered in snow, obviously.

There were quite a few out last night stomping the trail down with snowshoes and boots. We got the intermediate loop done, but not the X or XX.

I don't believe the trail is going to work for bikes just yet. The snow we were packing was pretty fluffy... it was a necessary start, but we need mother nature to help us out, as well as additional stomping. Hopefully we'll get random people hiking the trail like last year.

[dave t]

Stopped by the Galaxie entrance on my way home Friday and checked the status. I believe that it has firmed up enough that a Pugsley is not required to have a good ride.

The trail seemed nice and solid with the crispy surface it takes to stay on top with real tires. That side of the trail was also not the best packed during the stomp so I would expect a full lap is possible. We did stomp the X section but with a short-cut from the rock gardens to the X-XX intersection.

My confidence with 2.3 or bigger tires, studded or not - 80%.

I plan to ride Saturday but not 'til late morning.

[gopherhockey]

I plan to ride Saturday but not 'til late morning.

Thx! Give a report when u get back - My guess is the worst section is actually the dream - the last climb only saw 2-3 stompers total.

[dave t]

the last climb only saw 2-3 stompers total.

Yea, Rodney, Lisa & I were shortcutting by then too and did not go there either.

You guys pushing the Pugs seemed to do a pretty good job though so it might be still OK.

[dave t]

Saturday conditions report:

I am running 2.7 Timberwolves. No studs. My opinion, none needed now or even helpful.

From the lot to the X junction I was able to ride all but some of the steeper sections of climbing.

I couldn't really get anywhere in X so I turned back and tried dream and it wasn't very good either until the junction before the big log pile where we merged in with tuesdays stomping.

I would guess the Pugs would be able to do everything and it would help finish the packing for standard bikes.

2.3s and bigger will be fine until some of the climbs. You won't sink but it's not quite packed enough for uphill drive.

I think someone rode after me on some smaller tires. maybe they will post up their take on conditions.

Here's what I think the trail needs:

1. A good group ride out and back from the lot to the X junction. This would finish the packing and smooth out the footprints.

2. A stomp backwards to the junction and then X out or x-xx-x out. X had only partial stomping as did the upper dream and we also short-cut a few spots.

[gopherhockey]

Pugs report as of Sunday morning:

Dream II all the way to the X entrance - 99.9% ridable
X and XX - not ridable
Intermediate Out - 95% ridable
Dream to the last climb - 99% ridable
Last climb and beginner loop - 75+% ridable depending on section

Basically the seconts that we short cutted during stomps haven't had a chance to pack and settle in.

Was a great ride - I suggest all bikes get out and try the outer loop out.

[redpic]

Saturday conditions report:

I am running 2.7 Timberwolves. No studs. My opinion, none needed now or even helpful.

From the lot to the X junction I was able to ride all but some of the steeper sections of climbing.

I couldn't really get anywhere in X so I turned back and tried dream and it wasn't very good either until the junction before the big log pile where we merged in with tuesdays stomping.

I would guess the Pugs would be able to do everything and it would help finish the packing for standard bikes.

2.3s and bigger will be fine until some of the climbs. You won't sink but it's not quite packed enough for uphill drive.

I think someone rode after me on some smaller tires. maybe they will post up their take on conditions.

Here's what I think the trail needs:

1. A good group ride out and back from the lot to the X junction. This would finish the packing and smooth out the footprints.

2. A stomp backwards to the junction and then X out or x-xx-x out. X had only partial stomping as did the upper dream and we also short-cut a few spots.


4 of us went out stomping today. We went in backwards, to junction stomped X,XX, than X all the way out. It was my first stomp and I have not yet had the pleasure of winter riding so check it out and let us know how it is.

[gopherhockey]

4 of us went out stomping today. We went in backwards, to junction stomped X,XX, than X all the way out. It was my first stomp and I have not yet had the pleasure of winter riding so check it out and let us know how it is.

Wow, nice job... and thanks! That was the first full x and xx stomp... nice job! I bet that was a workout...

[bigwheel]

12/15 Sat 3pm

Everything is ridable (at least on a Zamboni). Trail is starting to get nicely packed, so come on out and enjoy.

[nutty]

Jamis and I stomped the beginning of the trail to junction and back out this afternoon.

Pugs seemed to go through really nicely. But my ride didnt workout as well on saturday.

[bigwheel]

Andrew, Good to see you out stomping yesterday.

I rode the Pug Saturday and Sunday. Saturday was great, but I had a tougher time on Sunday especially on the X/XX and Intermediate Out. The top of the snow is starting to get slippery, and the ruts are making it tougher to ride. But the more we pack it, the better the trail will get. Hopefully, the track will keep getting wider as more bikes and stompers continue to pack it down.

Studs are still no help. Use the widest tires you can fit on your bike.

Snowshoers are invited and greatly appreciated. You are the ones that keep the trail from being only a couple inches wide.

[tedsti]

We have some warmer weather coming up. Please do not ride the trail if the snow gets really soft since it will leave deep ruts that will freeze in for the rest of the winter.

[JDEcho]

Has anyone ridden it in the past few days? Any thoughts on whether it will be ok to ride tonight?

[bigwheel]

Has anyone ridden it in the past few days? Any thoughts on whether it will be ok to ride tonight?

It was good on Monday night.

We are going to be there tonight (6:15 ride). I think (hope) it'll harden up after the sun goes down. If not, we'll be on snowshoes.

[RiverRat]

It's not looking like it will get below about 29 tonight, so I doubt it will firm up enough to ride. Might be ok on a pugs, but that's all I would recomend trying. Snow shoes would be good though.

[gopherhockey]

Trail was good for Pugsleys and 2.7" tires, but anything less seemed to be digging in quite a bit.

Its another warm one today, please stay off when its this warm so we don't rut up the trail too bad. Those ruts make it hard for everyone else to ride, and once it hardens up they are tough to flatten out.

I think things will firm up this weekend for some excellent riding over the holidays!

[RiverRat]

Looking at the weather, a saturday night ride, starting about 4-5:00 with pugs (or even a snow shoe stomp) should work well for grooming and then a nice set should take overnight. Possibly making it nice for standard tires by sunday. There will be close to 3" of new snow by then though, so it won't be an easy push, even (or especially?) with a pugs.

Keep an eye on things, and hopefully somebody can get out at the right time with the right equipment. Start just as the temp is dropping through about 28

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Minneapolis&state=MN&site=MPX&textField1=44.9618&textField2=-93.2668&e=0&FcstType=graphical

Too bad I will be out of town by then :hit:

[gopherhockey]

12:30 Saturday and the trail is not ready yet. In fact tire tracks are going down to the dirt, which is also not frozen. Tracks that are in there are going to make it hard to ride once things freeze up.

Stay off until at least Sunday - let the trail freeze up.

Snowshoeing would probably be a good idea before too long.

:mad:

[gopherhockey]

Trail should be better today. Will be out around 11am and will report back after the ride.

My guess is things froze up but there is a bit of soft snow on top. Probably good to get wide tires in there before thin. After today its probably going to need another good stomp.

[gopherhockey]

I was reminded today why I bought the Pugsley... what awesome riding!

It was a good thing we all stayed off the trail yesterday as things firmed up nicely and there is just 1/2" (probably more by now) of powder on top. I didn't slip at all and hardly dabbed the entire trail.

Should be ok for bikes of all types today, but we could use some packing endomorphs and fat tires on the trail to help things along and make it nice for everyone.

There were some VERY obnoxious foot prints on the dream trail - someone hiked out yesterday leaving deep prints. I thought it was going to shake my bike apart it was so bumpy. Hopefully that will fill in today with the new snow and tire traffic.

Someone snowshoed part of the joey trail yesterday which seemed to work nice.

There are still some ruts left by thinner tires that have hardened up that will cause some issues. Dang ruts. (going to start a separate thread on that later today).

[gopherhockey]

I'm guessing with all this recent snow that snowshoes might be the way to go for a while before bikes. It was easier this morning pushing 1/2" of snow around, but its probably getting pretty deep out there now.

[gopherhockey]

Liz and I stomped the entire outer trail. It was a few inches of really light powder on top of pretty hard pack trail. Should be plenty fine for fat tires, skinny tires will work a bit harder at it.

SHouldn't be too slippery underneith as it wasn't yesterday - probably because we didn't ride it when it was wet Saturday. I think had we riden it would be glare ice underneith right now like Theo seems to have. Interesting.

Studs probably not needed at this time.

The x and xx could use some snowshoeing.

We weren't the only snowshoes out there, but were the only ones that made the complete loop by the looks of it.

Saw someone riding when we were leaving. You're welcome, whoever you are ;)

[dave t]

Saw someone riding when we were leaving. You're welcome, whoever you are ;)

Thanks! :D How about those snowy trees in the wind sheltered areas. Nice winter postcard stuff.

2.7 report:
Overall good shape thanks to the stompers but we are into the unbonded stage again and climbing drive is limited. I think I achieved a ride/push ratio of 85/15 trying to avoid digging in by pushing rather than fighting to keep the bike going.

Interestingly, fresh tracks in X/XX seemed easier except in a few places (Tedman's Curve for one) where it must have drifted in somewhat. Then I got into heavy deer and coyote tracks after the first XX bridge that were killing my drive. I realized the rest of the section would be more climbing and tight trail so I bailed to the intermediate again at the switchback.

I went "looking for my phone" ;) from there to the lot and met Lori snowshoeing the outer loop too. She had wood shoes and was flattening things out pretty well but I took care of that :nono:.

j/k. I actually wasn't grooving it up too bad and it is not sticky at all so they should blend out.

[gopherhockey]

Thanks! :D How about those snowy trees in the wind sheltered areas. Nice winter postcard stuff.



Yea, especially up by the upper bypass it was like a tunnel inside snowy trees - too cool. Wish we had our camera with, maybe tomorrow if there is snow left.

I was kind of wondering as we stomped if it was going to do more harm than good. I think it was too deep of powder to just have people plow through without a stomp as additional snows would just pile up and we'd all be searching for the solid base underneith. This way the new layer can harden up a bit and take over. Thin tires may rip through to the lower solid layer for a bit, but Pugs should float. Eventually all good. Maybe as we layer up the trail it will last longer into spring - we'll see... the nasty sun already seems to have a lot of power.

[Taz Devil]

Liz and I stomped the entire outer trail. It was a few inches of really light powder on top of pretty hard pack trail. Should be plenty fine for fat tires, skinny tires will work a bit harder at it.

SHouldn't be too slippery underneith as it wasn't yesterday - probably because we didn't ride it when it was wet Saturday. I think had we riden it would be glare ice underneith right now like Theo seems to have. Interesting.

Studs probably not needed at this time.

The x and xx could use some snowshoeing.

We weren't the only snowshoes out there, but were the only ones that made the complete loop by the looks of it.

Saw someone riding when we were leaving. You're welcome, whoever you are ;)

I just got back from making the entire loop :crazybanana: I don't know how you exited, but I was the only "stomper" on the easy loop to the lot & smoothed out the ski grooves there.

It was almost magical looking in places - next time I'm bringing the camera. Also saw a huge owl and a fox - cool!

Ran into David Tait - good to meet you! I'll admit having some biking envy, but it felt good to get the shoes out, running part of it. Yes, mine are old-school, Indian style shoes, but they leave a real cool pattern.:laugh:

If anyone's stomping later in the week, let me know - I'm game for it!

[kabbie_cache]

I just got back from making the entire loop :crazybanana: I don't know how you exited, but I was the only "stomper" on the easy loop to the lot & smoothed out the ski grooves there.

It was almost magical looking in places - next time I'm bringing the camera. Also saw a huge owl and a fox - cool!

Ran into David Tait - good to meet you! I'll admit having some biking envy, but it felt good to get the shoes out, running part of it. Yes, mine are old-school, Indian style shoes, but they leave a real cool pattern.:laugh:

If anyone's stomping later in the week, let me know - I'm game for it!

Glad you found your way, LOL. :p

[Taz Devil]

Glad you found your way, LOL. :p

Geez - must have had a brain-fart while I was flying by...:hammer: More sleep may be the order-of-the-day, too.

Thanks for the laugh!:laugh:

How was your outing?

[dave t]

Wish we had our camera with, maybe tomorrow if there is snow left.

It should stay until it gets warmer. It survived or even collected with the big wind Sunday so I don't think it is going to just fall off. It will take some sun and temps over 15.

I might try to talk the Fam into a little woodsy stroll tomorrow after the gifts are opened. Maybe drag a sled for the downhills :shocked:.

[gopherhockey]

I don't know how you exited, but I was the only "stomper" on the easy loop to the lot & smoothed out the ski grooves there.

If anyone's stomping later in the week, let me know - I'm game for it!

We exited backwards to the beginner entrance following another snowshoer track. Great that you did it the other way! The beginner is often the toughest as it gets split attention.

Might be a stomp in order on Wed night so we can have our Thursday ride, we'll see.

Thanks everyone who helps keep the trails packed down and ready to ride!

[kabbie_cache]

How was your outing?

Fun but exhausting.

[BikerKitty]

A few of us (Dirk, Pete, Tiffany and I) stomped a little bit of Leb today after skiing...it was really gorgeous out there, weather-wise, and very picturesque. Thanks for getting us out there, Tiffany!

I'm not exactly sure how far in we went (I'm sure one of the other 3 knows better) - we started at the beginning of the regular trail and went backwards for about a half hour or so, then turned around and came back, but came out the beginner loop. It was weird, some sections seemed super-stomped and then others, not so much.

I'd be up for a Wednesday night stomp - I'm sure I can leave work early since virtually no one will be there.

Just to make this relevant to the thread title - trail conditions seem iffy to this girl. ;) Call me a wuss, but I'll stick to skiing and shoeing until the day I go nuts and buy a pug.

I'm off to take the longest hot shower ever. :zzz:

[gopherhockey]

Snowshoes are wanted again....

We'll probably be out there at some point today. Probably do the X/XX since it got ignored last round.

If someone were to do the outside loop that would be cool! We're falling behind again... DOH! I LOVE this snow though!! About time we had a real winter.

[Disaster on Wheels]

Snowshoes are wanted again....

We'll probably be out there at some point today. Probably do the X/XX since it got ignored last round.

If someone were to do the outside loop that would be cool! We're falling behind again... DOH! I LOVE this snow though!! About time we had a real winter.


When are you thinking you will go out? I would probably be up for stomping this evening.

[gopherhockey]

When are you thinking you will go out? I would probably be up for stomping this evening.

I was thinking about doing a light stomp today, then maybe post up an evening stomp for a nice group event.

[Magic]

Did you already master guitar hero Jodi? I thought from your other post we wouldn't see you till the flowers started to come up again. Glad to see you still want to get out in the snow.

When are you thinking you will go out? I would probably be up for stomping this evening.

[Disaster on Wheels]

I was thinking about doing a light stomp today, then maybe post up an evening stomp for a nice group event.

Save some fresh snow for the rest of us!


Did you already master guitar hero Jodi? I thought from your other post we wouldn't see you till the flowers started to come up again. Glad to see you still want to get out in the snow.

Not yet, but I just can't ignore this kind of snow. Sigh, I guess guitar hero will have to wait...

[Taz Devil]

Snowshoes are wanted again....

We'll probably be out there at some point today. Probably do the X/XX since it got ignored last round.

If someone were to do the outside loop that would be cool! We're falling behind again... DOH! I LOVE this snow though!! About time we had a real winter.

I stomped about 1/2 way through the outside loop yesterday (yes a Xmaser out & about), but ran out of daylight, so doubled back. I'm not sure how much good it did, but I will definitely be out there doing my part again this weekend! :jumpy:

[gopherhockey]

Thanks to everyone who continues to stomp the trail, either solo or in groups.

We had 8 last night do the entire outer loop. It felt fairly solid underneith but there is definitely a new layer of light snow on top that will make biking a bit difficult until things set up.

Nothing has been done to the X/XX in a while. It might be tonight's adventure if pugs don't work.

I think every little bit of stomping is helping, even if we get snow on top. The more we try keep up the sooner we'll be riding again! Even if we don't, its great excercise and the snow is awesome out there.

[gopherhockey]

Two snowshoe tracks have now been put down in the X and XX. Its a good start, but not quite enough. It was pretty deep in there as they hadn't gotten packing since the recent snow, but it still felt pretty solid under about 6+" of snow. Conditions were great for packing today.

The beginner loop is not completely opened up yet. From the Dream trail on out (forward) is untouched. The X out is also untouched.

Saw no bike tracks out there today. There was someone skiing the outer bike trail tho, which is a good thing.

My guess is that tonight's stomp out there will probably get the trail set up for riding again real soon. I'll probably try it on pugs Friday.

The ski trail and hiking trails were groomed by Dakota today as well for those who partake in those activities.

[tedsti]

Outer loop 95% riding
X loop 75% riding where everyone packed and 50% where someone cut/skipped.
X out 30% riding.

[gopherhockey]

Yup, outer loop was pretty good. Not sure how skinny tires will do tho until we get some deeper packing. The pugs tires were digging in 1/4 to 1". If we could get more of em' out there then the fat tire challenged could have some fun too.

X is getting better, but there are still key areas that haven't seen a lot of stomping. If you ride, please stay on the trail even if there are areas less packed than others. There is an area right away that didn't get much packing, then after the rock garden to the XX entrance hasn't seen much stomping. X out isn't done either.

XX is fairly good except a few hundred feet of the first section that has only seen a few snowshoes. Its a bit softer, needs some time to firm up. I didn't get to ride it all today.

Beginner loop is still missing traffic. I'll try get out there tomorrow and hit some of the areas that have been missed.

The deer were eating up all the leaves. Hope they survive all this snow.

[Ish]

2.4" tires are a no go.

20 psi in them...NO
8-10 psi in them....NO :mad:

Saw Ted grooming also, so hopefully things will start to pack in with more traffic with the big tires.

[Stonehenge]

Rode it today...really thought it would be in better condition based on the thread. Only say one pug track, it was a trough and snow covered but visible by contour accross fresh snow on the trail. Ran into Becca whom shoed yesterday with her hubby. She dragged her brother out there, this afternoon, fresh off the plane from GA. There were some areas much more ridable than others. There were some areas that are raw with Snow shoes spine between feet making a little challenge. The runner and walkers didnt do the trail any good. After 2 hours of ridding,4 Clown bikes rodeoed a full lap including X and XX. Our 1st time pugger went out solo for a second lap.....he said I gotta figure out the PUG RIDDLE.
I wonder why the warm up loop/ finish loop is cut short. Alot of it was not shoed or ridden. It is the closest trail to the parking lot. We broke trail and rode it anyway. This trail would be a good indicator of trail condition kind of like a qualifier ( the main trail will not be as good). Also it is very short trail with best access and if got alot of attention it would be great to get some fun going quick for the 2.0 crowd. There is alot of trail out there to manage and groom but focus on a short loop to get ridable quick may entise more to show up and Shoe/ride pack the trail if they know they can at least ride a little. Just a thought !

[gopherhockey]

I wonder why the warm up loop/ finish loop is cut short. Alot of it was not shoed or ridden. It is the closest trail to the parking lot. We broke trail and rode it anyway.

The end of the beginner loop sees less traffic typically because stompers are completing the outer loop by that time and opt to take the beginner out (backwards) to get done quicker. (by that time its typically been 2+ hours of snowshoing and most are pretty beat) The very end section of the beginner gets some attention as its the way to go when hiking out to do the X/XX. (we go backwards to the hiking trail, then cut up to the XX from there) There is that section between that gets ignored. I agree, it needs attention - but that explains why it hasn't seen much yet.

Thanks for pugging the trail! I'll be out doing my part tomorrow. I may carry the snowshoes with and hit sections that haven't had enough attention along the way as well. Just a bit more stomping and pugging and Leb will be back to great riding shape!

Thanks again to all that help pack it down. The most recent 1/2" or so fresh snow probably hasn't helped much but we'll be glad to have all the snow once it starts to warm up a bit again.

[gopherhockey]

The outside loop at Leb is about 99% on the pugsley. People have done a real nice job of stomping and even the foot traffic, while rough, seems to help. I took the beginner loop the regular direction and while it hadn't seen much shoe traffic it was easy thanks to previous pugs tracks that weren't just following each others tracks.

The X needed some work. I hauled the snowshoes out there and stomped some areas that had gotten skipped previously. Discovered that riding in freshly stomped trail isn't that great, but it should set up nicely.

The XX wasn't all that fun unless you like following a 1" deep single wide pugley track. The XX needs another stomp fest before its going to be any fun to ride.

In spite of the craptastic job of engineering the tread of the endomorph tire (at least for snow riding) it was pretty fun out there. I believe if I could only own two bikes it would be my main XC and my Pugsley... then maybe the road bike. Too bad someone doesn't build a bigger tire with some actual grip on it. Maybe Surly will get it done someday - I hear they have thought about it at least.

I think thinner tires will still struggle until things harden up a bit more. Won't be long for the outer loop.

If you are going to be stomping in the next few days and you are looking for a suggested route - please try hike out and do the XX/X loop. The outside loop really doesn't need any more foot/shoe traffic for now.

[Stonehenge]

[quote=gopherhockey;261741]
The X needed some work. I hauled the snowshoes out there and stomped some areas that had gotten skipped previously. Discovered that riding in freshly stomped trail isn't that great, but it should set up nicely.
YEP...soft DRY snow doesnt pack well. Needs more time in the oven to bake.
The XX wasn't all that fun unless you like following a 1" deep single wide pugley track. The XX needs another stomp fest before its going to be any fun to ride.
Yep....again soft dry snow - exactly why skinnys did deeper. And why we tried to aviod Teds oversnown track on our ride yesteday.
In spite of the craptastic job of engineering the tread of the endomorph tire (at least for snow riding) it was pretty fun out there. I believe if I could only own two bikes it would be my main XC and my Pugsley... then maybe the road bike. Too bad someone doesn't build a bigger tire with some actual grip on it. Maybe Surly will get it done someday - I hear they have thought about it at least.
Ahhhhh... John. I have to dissagree because a bigger tire ( most likly with bigger knobs is not the answer...they break up your grip and the trail. A soft surgafe like snow is delicate and needs a softer touch to grip the trail. And just like all the 2 inch crowd whom ride with way too much pressure I think you may need to let some air out too - even on the pug. That is the great advantage of the very large tire, huge contact area. - you can let out alot of air and double, tripple or more the amount of contact patch. If you run real low pressure then the Endo morph will not seem so Craptastic as you mentioned. All winter off road tire pressure should be much lower than you think, espesially skinnies. That is why so may dig in and get so squirly on the trail...way to much air makes way to little contact patch. In soft snow contitions...let your tire sag at least 1/3 of its height and you will be amzaed at the traction. Dont bash this until you try it. Hard pack is different but still much less air pressure than dirt!quote] As I quoted in another thread for the folks whom do not want to spend the cash on a Pug.....buy a set of tires for winter. Make sure they are soft and supple not hard like a down hill tire. A large body and low agressive tread. AND RUN VERY LOW AIR PRESSURE. Everyone wins!!!! If I have to show (school you) you then YOU BUY the BEER! And not the thin stuff, I like carbs and taste.

[gopherhockey]

YEP...soft DRY snow doesnt pack well. Needs more time in the oven to bake.

Ahhhhh... John. Just like all the 2 inch crowd whom ride with way too much pressure I think you may need to let some air out too - even on the pug.

Ha... time to bake. I like it.

Today I ran my tires so low you could see them folding under my weight... I think I was way too low even at one point.

The problem with the tread is there is no lateral traction - at some point the front wheel has little weight on it and just floats off wherever it wants. Its the biggest complaint I've heard from the pugs riders I know. I think a more knobby front would be best, or something with grip capable of staying in a straight line. Its not so bad in the rear - you can back off if you start to lose traction and it will grip if conditions are right. (I run mine backwards for better rear grip)

It is especially obvious when you stop and have to get going again - the front wants to wander around way too much.

I emailed Surly about it and they agreed it wasn't really designed for single track snow riding. They would like to do a better snow tire but have other projects going on I guess.

Its definitely a challenge and can be fun to try overcome the limitations of what we've been given... but there are times when I know if I had tread like the Timberwolf in a 3.7" tire I'd be flying out there rather than sliding off the side of the trail. (we're actually looking at some unicycle tires as front replacements)

Most people I know or ride with have gotten used to running as low pressure as they can. I don't often run into that as an issue anymore... even with the thinner tires.

Anyway... back to conditions ;) Thanks to you guys for the packing you did - made today a lot more fun!

[Stonehenge]

Ha... time to bake. I like it.

Today I ran my tires so low you could see them folding under my weight... I think I was way too low even at one point. On our ride, plenty of soft snow,I was sagging about 50% and well into the wrinkle wall (think drag racing cars...wrinkle wall tires for a reason) and was able to far out climb 2 ridders whom are much stronger. They did not have wrinkle wall. The lower you go (to a point) makes the tire less round and more like a track at the contact patch the the more traction...dont forget the front too.

The problem with the tread is there is no lateral traction - at some point the front wheel has little weight on it and just floats off wherever it wants.
Yeah that is inherant to snow ridding and will be tought to overcome with tires alone, better design will help a little but soft snow you will still plow and get bounced around.


It is especially obvious when you stop and have to get going again - the front wants to wander around way too much. Sure trains balance doesnt it!

I emailed Surly about it and they agreed it wasn't really designed for single track snow riding. They would like to do a better snow tire but have other projects going on I guess. Well.... it wouldnt be a $ maker so gets low attention. Perhaps if they simply increased the bulk and height of the runners it would make that tire steer straighter in snow and give lateral grip as well as lift the meat of the tire for that pavement ride wander.

Its definitely a challenge and can be fun to try overcome the limitations of what we've been given... but there are times when I know if I had tread like the Timberwolf in a 3.7" tire I'd be flying out there rather than sliding off the side of the trail. (we're actually looking at some unicycle tires as front replacements) Good luck with experimenting - post up findings. My experiment is for the non pug bike.....I think the Mutano Raptor at low pressure will be as good as you may find for standard MTB. I hope to try them soon. It isnt always size that matters its how its used..... or this litte guy might just take on the little bigger tire and win.


Anyway... back to conditions ;) Thanks to you guys for the packing you did - made today a lot more fun! Absolutly... it was a tough workout. Hope to get out that way in a few weeks when its rockin. keep up the Drive to keep the trail alive.

[Stonehenge]

by the way Theo was great yesterday....thanks to all the snow shoers there to. If ya cant ride dont hide - get some fat shoes (snow shoes) and play

[gopherhockey]

Today was a whole new day at Leb. The outside loop was solid... I think plenty solid for thinner tires. Basically no marks left by the pugs, and it was 100% ridable.

The x and xx were even much better today. The sections I stomped yesterday hardened up nicely and you can even ride things like Tedman's now without a dab.

The XX still has the single channel pugs track for about the first half, then the second half was much better. About the only thing we couldn't ride was the last climb after the gnome tree. The XX could still use another few snowshoer's. I think the X and XX might be a bit much for thin tires still but they are coming along. One more stomp session and the entire trail would be good for all tire sizes.

Get out and ride before the warmer weather sets in and starts melting things. Lets hope we don't lose the snow and maybe we'll see the studs come out the following week.

[gopherhockey]

Just an early reminder that we're expecting some warm temps this coming weekend. As such, we'll likely put up the orange fence to keep people from putting ruts into the wet snow. If we can stay off and survite the warmth it might just harden up for all tire sizes and even studs which would be fun!

Just do some advanced planning NOT to ride Leb this coming weekend if the temps work out the way they are forecast. (this includes pugs and foot traffic)

[Tower]

Hey Team Z,
With the impending doom (all F temp'd up), when will the orange fence go up?

Thinking about riding Leb in the AM on Friday if it's not slush and I don't rut it up too bad...

I think this is the 3rd January thaw in a row... This sucks, but maybe the 2" riders will get the advantage back on the zamboni's and motor boats...

[gopherhockey]

Yup, we'll probably close if it gets above 32 for too long.

I'd bet Friday will be ok until late afternoon. I was planning on waiting until that evening to do any checking or closing.

[Tower]

10-4... If I get online I'll post my ride results... Thanks for the grooming!

Yup, we'll probably close if it gets above 32 for too long.

I'd bet Friday will be ok until late afternoon. I was planning on waiting until that evening to do any checking or closing.

[bigwheel]

Saturday 1/5 10am. Temp=28 deg, packed snow, conditions good. Thanks again to everyone that snowshoed the trail to get it packed and ridable. :banana:

But as I type this message, I see that it is already 36 degrees out. :( For the next several days, our only hope for a ride is that it gets back into the low 20's overnight (doubtful), and that we catch it in the morning before it warms up again.

So, while the temp is above freezing, please stay off of the trail so that we can keep the good snow and not have frozen ruts. If it doesn't get rutted up, then the next cold snap might be excellent for skinny tires and studs and fast riding. If we end up with frozen ruts, it could suck.

[gopherhockey]

Its 36 degrees out and melting fast. Please stay off the bike trails at Leb until we get a good freezing spell and posisble more snow, we'll see how long this warmth lasts and how much damage it does.

I think we made the right decision last time around to keep off even as it was starting to freeze again.

[lostboy]

So far weather looks like Friday is the first day with a high below freezing (26). Also we are supposed to maybe get 2 inches on Thursday AM. Saturdays high 20, Sundays high 19.

'Trail Experts' - a bunch of newbies were thinking about heading out this weekend for our first snow ride on aired down tires, preferably Saturday. Is anyone by chance planning on checkng the trail Friday and providing an update? We really want to ride but only if the conditions are right. I would check but have no clue what to really look for and would hate to do any harm to the trail.

[bigwheel]

I'll be out of town skiing this weekend, but with any luck, the trail will be ridable by the weekend. (maybe even Friday)

One of us will check it as soon as the temp drops. We'll post up.

Thanks for asking.

[gopherhockey]

I was going to watch the weather and perhaps post up a Thursday or Friday night "stomp" to mesh the new snow that I hope we get with the new ice we probably have out there (along with huge ruts, no doubt..) I think if we could get a decent group and sufficient snow we could get things back into shape quickly.

If we don't get snow, I was thinking of checking the possibility of stud riding.. my guess is there will be a lot of ice. (correction, make that riding a bike with studs on the tires... didn't want to leave that one too wide open hehe)

If we get snow on top of slowly freezing ice it might set up nicely like it did last time.

If anyone wanted to snowshoe it in the next few days please do. It can probably do some good while its in the process of a freeze. Then again its all a great big guessing game.

[Magic]

Are you sure about the "stud tire" riding. I think it will chew up the trail too much. I just don't want to see all the hard work you all have put into this trail go to waste. Talking with Larry, he said the studs sure made a mess of things down at the river bottoms.

I was going to watch the weather and perhaps post up a Thursday or Friday night "stomp" to mesh the new snow that I hope we get with the new ice we probably have out there (along with huge ruts, no doubt..) I think if we could get a decent group and sufficient snow we could get things back into shape quickly.

If we don't get snow, I was thinking of checking the possibility of stud riding.. my guess is there will be a lot of ice. (correction, make that riding a bike with studs on the tires... didn't want to leave that one too wide open hehe)

If we get snow on top of slowly freezing ice it might set up nicely like it did last time.

If anyone wanted to snowshoe it in the next few days please do. It can probably do some good while its in the process of a freeze. Then again its all a great big guessing game.

[tedsti]

Are you sure about the "stud tire" riding. I think it will chew up the trail too much. I just don't want to see all the hard work you all have put into this trail go to waste. Talking with Larry, he said the studs sure made a mess of things down at the river bottoms.

We only bust out the studs when it is ice or real hardpack. The mad max homemade studs never tore this up in past years. I agree with you that skinny Nokians will tear things up if it is not packed well though.

[dave t]

Are you sure about the "stud tire" riding. I think it will chew up the trail too much. I just don't want to see all the hard work you all have put into this trail go to waste. Talking with Larry, he said the studs sure made a mess of things down at the river bottoms.

I agree. Unless there has been a bunch of traffic on the soft melty snow, I wouldn't expect enough ice to justify studdin' up.

[gopherhockey]

We're back to near normal temps again... should have our first full 24 hours of under 32 degrees today.

Curious if anyone has been out there. I almost don't dare go look.

Wouldn't mind trying a ride tomorrow, depening on what its like out there.

[bigwheel]

Wed 1/9 3pm Trail is ready to ride again.

One frozen rut on the Dream-II climb and first part of the Joey trail. One pinhead screwing it up for everyone. :banghead: :mad: In case you don't know, DO NOT RIDE WHEN IT IS WARM AND THE TRAIL IS WET!

Good news: The rest of the trail is Excellent! Including X/XX Several people snowshoed the trail from the Galaxy entrance all the way to the end just before it froze, leaving the trail nice and wide, packed and fast. :banana: Thanks much to whoever this was.

So, other than the first mile or so, the rest of the trail is excellent! Even the X/XX are in great shape! Ridable with normal MTB tires. Good grip. Studs are not necessary yet.

Craig, it was good meeting you.

[dave t]

What he said!

Bob beat me to it but I will just add that the edges even seem pretty solid so it shouldn't be pulling you off the line if you stray off center.

It's time to get off the couch y'all. There's no more excuses because just about anything should work great. If you got turned off of winter riding earlier this season, you owe yourself another shot at it now.

[lostboy]

4 or 5 of us newb's to snow riding should be there on Sunday morning. Woot woot.

[Disaster on Wheels]

4 or 5 of us newb's to snow riding should be there on Sunday morning. Woot woot.


What time are you going? I haven't had a chance to snow ride and i might want to join in.

[lostboy]

We usually ride at 9 when we get togther but I am confirming with them today. I'll post up when I hear back from them.

[bigwheel]

Great! Someone please post a group ride. Once this happens, I'll go back and delete the off-topic posts in this thread. Thanks!

[Disaster on Wheels]

Great! Someone please post a group ride. Once this happens, I'll go back and delete the off-topic posts in this thread. Thanks!


Sorry for Hijacking!

[bigwheel]

Thursday 1/10

Folks, it's sloppy warm out again. As you can see, we canceled tonight's group ride. :(

Please don't ride the trail today. Hopefully, it'll freeze again by tomorrow.

If you want to be a hero, we could really use someone to snowshoe the first mile or so of the trail (up dream-II into the Joey trail). This will get rid of the rut that somebody made during the last warm spell.

Thanks, Bob S.

[Ubergiant]

Think the trails will be ridable tonight after 5? According to the national weather service, its been below freezing since 2am today.

[gopherhockey]

Think the trails will be ridable tonight after 5? According to the national weather service, its been below freezing since 2am today.

Absolutely, go for it!

[bigwheel]

Friday 11am. I just got back.

The trail is in good shape. :banana: The only bad spots are the ruts in the first mile or so of the trail. Those are even getting knocked apart and flattened out by today's and yesterday morning's riders.

Trail is fun and fast, with a nice wide track of packed snow. Studs are not necessary. "Normal" MTB tires will work fine. The rocks and logs are pretty much all covered, so the entire trail is now Intermediate.

Go ride it. This is about the best it gets for snow riding.

[gopherhockey]

As Bob said, entire trail is intermediate now, and all tire sizes will work fine.

Nice light coating of snow last night covered up the scars from the thaw last week. Looks like we're in for some excellent winter riding again like 2 years ago.

:D

[dave t]

I dropped back down to 2.4 Mutanoraptors for a break from the heavyweights. Even with well worn knobs, I had zero problems with traction or digging in ....... at least none that I didn't bring on myself by trying to run full summer speed. The edges are much better but still will pull you in if you try hard enough.

[setzep]

What tire would work best right now? I've got half wore 2.0", 2.6" or studded.

[dave t]

I think width is unimportant right now (within reason). Worn tires might not bite quite as well (try turning them backwards) but the 2.6ers will ride heavy. My 2.4 Mutanos are plenty worn, I did not turn them backwards and I had plenty grip for even the steepest parts at Leb and I was able to do "stoppies" or "nose wheelies".

If your 2.0s are the type with many small knobs, I would run them and use the best one on the back with the sharpest knob edges driving and then the sharpest edges braking on the front.

[setzep]

I think width is unimportant right now (within reason). Worn tires might not bite quite as well (try turning them backwards) but the 2.6ers will ride heavy. My 2.4 Mutanos are plenty worn, I did not turn them backwards and I had plenty grip for even the steepest parts at Leb and I was able to do "stoppies" or "nose wheelies".

If your 2.0s are the type with many small knobs, I would run them and use the best one on the back with the sharpest knob edges driving and then the sharpest edges braking on the front.


No ice out there for studs? I ask because the river bottoms has a lot of ice under the last dusting of snow. The 2.6" were hard to ride on because of it.

[gopherhockey]

No ice out there for studs? I ask because the river bottoms has a lot of ice under the last dusting of snow. The 2.6" were hard to ride on because of it.

No ice...

[dave t]

I ask because the river bottoms has a lot of ice under the last dusting of snow.

I think the R.B. gets a bunch of foot traffic regardless of conditions and that makes it ice up during freeze / thaw.
As John said, zero, zilch, nada ice at Leb.

It's darn near perfect right now so don't miss it. The only thing I might wish for is packed out berms on the downhills.

[Ubergiant]

I went for it on friday and it was glorious. So good I had to come back on saturday night too. Anyone want to bundle up and ride tonight around 7:30 8 ish?

[setzep]

We went last night and it was awesome. A little slick in the beginner loop but other than that it's about as good as it gets!

[bigwheel]

Tuesday night 1/22

The trail is wide and well packed. We got about 1/2 inch of new snow, making the surface a little bit slippery (but not bad). Any tire will work, but the homebrew studs have a slight advantage.

This is primo mid-winter conditions. Go ride it.

[Rocky Mountain]

So how much of the trail has ice versus packed snow?

It can be alot of work to switch over to studs so would like to know for Thurs ride.

[bigwheel]

So how much of the trail has ice versus packed snow?

It can be alot of work to switch over to studs so would like to know for Thurs ride.

There is zero glare ice (even under the new snow), but a few of the spots are starting to get slippery from being so well packed.

You will not *need* studs, although they will help a little bit.

[Tower]

Awesome shape last night... The colder it is the better hook up you get... 2.5 hours in the cold box. Advantage pug, but with warm temps ahead the freeze thaw will bring the advantage back to the 2" studs...

[lostboy]

anyone head out today? I am thinking of riding early in the morning on Sunday before the temp warms up. I assume it's still a go for all tire types?

[gopherhockey]

anyone head out today? I am thinking of riding early in the morning on Sunday before the temp warms up. I assume it's still a go for all tire types?

It should be, although it was getting a little soft on top today (that was partially because of a bit of new snow as well I think). There is a solid base still so if we all just watch the weather and stay off when it gets near 32 we'll be fine.

[Stonehenge]

So how much of the trail has ice versus packed snow?

It can be alot of work to switch over to studs so would like to know for Thurs ride.
Just find a cheap set of wheels ( used or not ) this way you can come prepared to change rubber out in a heart beat.

And those whom do not understand the difference between river bottoms and Leb should know. Besides foot traffiic, more impact on trail to make ice or not is that Leb is pretty well sheilded from the sun by trees and Hills. conversly river bottoms runs East and west and has the sun running parrallel which gives an extreme exposure in may areas thus the high melt/ freeze...voilla... ice.
( info courtesy of rocket science 201)

[Stonehenge]

From 10 till noon today, 2 all inclusive laps the trails was in great shape. 100% ridable. first lap was awesome on the fresh blanket blanket of snow....Wish I had the bar cam for the fun downhill coming out...it was very fast and fun! Trail was even faster on second lap as a few new tracks were down.

[dave t]

Trail was still holding up really well but was starting to get sticky around 2:00 (Sunday 1/27). The sides were getting softer and rewar