The Expert Loop @ Lebanon

[gopherhockey]

This isn't so much a tip as a comment on riding the rock garden in the expert loop at Lebanon Hills. You know the one - you hit a few piles of rocks and the trail takes a sharp right turn.

Anyway.. I have seen many people struggle with this section. Most of the time when I come up behind people riding this area, I notice they are taking the farthest right line they can, then stopping at the corner because they lost so much speed they end up grabbing a tree to help them around. (not saying this is everyone that takes this line)

I have a tip that might help those of you who struggle to get over this section or might be looking for an alternative line: Take the far left instead of right!

It looks nasty because if you go far left you have to ride a larger rock on that side in the first section of rocks. Once you ride it, however, you may not go back to the other way. All last year I rode the far right and had to sneak around the corner... that is until I followed a guy into the rock garden that took that leftmost line. It really flows nice, and it allows you more space to make the corner without having to grab a tree or lose speed.

You just have to remind yourself to head for the biggest rock on the left side and ride right over the middle of it...

If I had a picture of the rock garden on hand I'd draw what I'm talking about...

[gopherhockey]

Another area I found improvement on by following another rider was the 2 rock-armored left turns when exiting the expert loop. (maybe more specifically the second one)

Granted they seem to have become easier recently as there appears to be some rocks now missing... but, I still always see a huge deep rut at the bottom of the turn (right side) where guys are trying to sneak around the rocks and are getting sucked off the trail. (maybe we need to put a HAR there)

I found a better line is to come into the top of the turn at the far right, but then aim your bike more toward the left (inside) of the turn as you start making it. You end up sqaring off the turn but heading straight through the rocks vs. making a turn while in them. Going straight through them (at least for me) allows me to keep my balance and speed better - plus I don't get sucked to the outside of the trail and exit that little section right in the dead center without losing momentum.

I'm sorry if my descriptions of these areas and what I'm doing doesn't make any sense... maybe I'll go get some pictures tonight.

Also, this certainly isn't probably the best line for everyone or maybe even THE best line at all.. I'd be interested to hear what others do in these areas.

[manual63]

This is a tough section and I get stuck on it all the time even though I am a technical rider. I like John's idea about taking the far left, but there is a big rock to go over and can send you a bit out of control.

A second tip is a little more technical, but works well. I have actually taken the middle (little slot just right of the big rock) and then turned into the corner applying the front brake hard enough to endo a bit. Then just as you do this you lean to the left and pick up the rear wheel to about 90 degrees so you are lined up for the trail after the turn. You must be in a low gear so you can pedal out of it. This is more like a trials move and I don't suggest trying it here first. Try doing an endo and rotate 90 degrees in a lot or something first.

My trials skills might come in handy in the new XX loop. Can't wait......:)

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by manual63
This is a tough section and I get stuck on it all the time even though I am a technical rider. I like John's idea about taking the far left, but there is a big rock to go over and can send you a bit out of control.


Yup, that rock can indeed get you even though it is actually a rather smooth one. I think you have to carry more speed into the rock section if you go left now that I think about it more.. it requires just a bit of luck when navigating the smaller rocks that lead up to the larger piles too - one slip there when gaining momentum (after making that short uphill climb) can throw you even before you get to that rock.

If you get the speed and roll that rock, you don't need to pedal at all through the rest of it, you can just let your momentum coming off that rock to carry you through the corner..

[Trevize1138]

Yeah, taking the far left through the rock garden is the way to go. I started doing that a few weeks ago and haven't looked back. It really just psyches you out at first, but the big rocks are actually quite easy to roll over, and then you're set up for an easy right after that.

As for the two left-turn rock-armored turns toward the end of the expert loop, I've taken to clipping-out of my left pedal and just ignoring the rocks :). Last night Shad made the comment "That sounds just *nasty* dude!" when he heard a knob on one of my tires go *pop!* and it sprang back from slipping off one of those small rocks. I just blast straight throug the middle of the rocks fast with my foot out to catch me if the tires slip and never worry. :)

Of course, this is if you've gotten used to quickly clipping in-and-out of your pedals. I've made it a personal mission to become an expert at that. I rarely actually touch my foot to the ground on turns like that, but it's a great psychological aid ... or crutch ...

My strategy a little later on just before the very end of the expert loop, just after a small line of rocks and a sharp, hairpin left turn has been to plant a foot and grab the rear brake, swinging the bike around really fast. Last night Shad saw it backfire on me when I either over-steered my front tire or it slipped off a root (I thought it was the former, Shad says he saw it as the latter). Bike went one way and I went another!

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Trevize1138
My strategy a little later on just before the very end of the expert loop, just after a small line of rocks and a sharp, hairpin left turn has been to plant a foot and grab the rear brake, swinging the bike around really fast.

So you are saying you are the one skidding around all the corners out there? ;)

I thought it was some kid with a 50lb. bike he couldn't control.

Is skidding really a good technique to use on the trails? I can see where it might work, but I can also see it becoming a disaster for the trail itself in no time.

[Trevize1138]

I just put a twist tie on my rear brake before riding Lebannon these days. Saves me the time. :crazy:

No, that's the only corner I slide around. The other tight corners I might put a foot out but I avoid sliding if at all possible. The slide on that hairpin is just to get through it a *little* faster. That, and it's fun!

[GearDaddy]

Hmmm. In the rock garden I've always taken the middle line by accelerating over the first set of rocks and then aiming the front wheel for the slot between the second set of rocks. Sometimes I come near a dead stop at that point, but I never have to pick up my rear or front wheel to negotiate the turn. I rarely ever have to dab to make the turn.

On the rocky left hand turns near the end of the expert loop I'll admit that I've always aimed to the far right, as that still seems to be the fastest way to maintain speed through the turn.

I don't think there is any turn at Lebanon where skidding actually helps to negotiate the turn faster. It's still basic turning technique 101, i.e. find the best line where you can maintain the most speed through the turn (possibly requiring hard braking coming into the turn), and accelerate hard out of the turn, WITHOUT skidding - that's the fastest line. If you skid, you lose momentum and diminish the ability to accelerate out of the turn - right?

[manual63]

Yes, and this is also applied in Auto Racing. You should slow down so you can just hang the corner allowing yourself to power out of the turn. Skidding is fun, but I don't use it unless I go too fast into a turn by accident. As I gain more experience, I have been finding out that maintaining as much momentum as possible saves you energy. Taking turns smoothly without skidding or sliding, but carrying as much speed as possible through the turn, helps save energy, which I tend to run out of quickly if I push too hard.

[Trevize1138]

Originally posted by GearDaddy

I don't think there is any turn at Lebanon where skidding actually helps to negotiate the turn faster. It's still basic turning technique 101, i.e. find the best line where you can maintain the most speed through the turn (possibly requiring hard braking coming into the turn), and accelerate hard out of the turn, WITHOUT skidding - that's the fastest line. If you skid, you lose momentum and diminish the ability to accelerate out of the turn - right?

I agree with you completely on every turn at Lebannon with the exception of the hairpin turn just before exiting the expert loop. However, even with that turn I don't completely *disagree* with you. :)

I have noticed, though, the couple times that I've been a little behind someone just before that turn that if I slide it and cut it short (most people ride it wide ... hey, I rhymed!) I end up right on their ass after the turn. But, it could have been that those people sucked :crazy:

[Trevize1138]

Yeah, taking the far left through the rock garden is the way to go. I started doing that a few weeks ago and haven't looked back. It really just psyches you out at first, but the big rocks are actually quite easy to roll over, and then you're set up for an easy right after that.

As for the two left-turn rock-armored turns toward the end of the expert loop, I've taken to clipping-out of my left pedal and just ignoring the rocks :). Last night Shad made the comment "That sounds just *nasty* dude!" when he heard a knob on one of my tires go *pop!* and it sprang back from slipping off one of those small rocks. I just blast straight throug the middle of the rocks fast with my foot out to catch me if the tires slip and never worry. :)

Of course, this is if you've gotten used to quickly clipping in-and-out of your pedals. I've made it a personal mission to become an expert at that. I rarely actually touch my foot to the ground on turns like that, but it's a great psychological aid ... or crutch ...

My strategy a little later on just before the very end of the expert loop, just after a small line of rocks and a sharp, hairpin left turn has been to plant a foot and grab the rear brake, swinging the bike around really fast. Last night Shad saw it backfire on me when I either over-steered my front tire or it slipped off a root (I thought it was the former, Shad says he saw it as the latter). Bike went one way and I went another!

That's right, kids: skidding IS a skill! :crazy:

Gosh, does this mean my cornering ability has actually improved over the past two years since I wrote this? Note: the corner I'm talking about doesn't exist anymore, but you can see where it was just as you start in on the dream trail downhill after the X loop.

[manual63]

I remember when Chris thought is was faster to hang a leg out and slide (skid) the back wheel around the corner. Oh well, guess you had to learn that one for yourself......:):p

Back in the 80's (Wheels knows) the Maple Plain BMX track had a tight flat first turn. I remember the big debate about whether is was faster to take the way inside and slide it or take the way outside to keep up you momentum. Unless the guy doing the way inside slide went wide after the turn to block those on the outside, he would lose coming out of the turn. One time I took the way outside knowing the inside guys would slide and then go outside. I went outside and then swooped inside and passed 3 or so guys while they were still sliding. I never really was that good at gate starts....:) That was always a fun corner to watch.