Walkers on MTB Trail

[pwpatton]

There seem to be quite a few walkers on the bike trail at Lebanon. The bike trail is not a multi-use trail, is it? I've heard of riders getting ticketed, perhaps walkers should as well...

Does that seem too hard core. Maybe people should at least speak up. I've been a bit timid... don't want walkers to think that a bunch of "elite" bikers who don't want them to play on their bike trail.

Any suggestions on what to do about walkers on the trails?

Phillip

[gopherhockey]

It was actually a walker that got the biggest ticket thus far at Lebanon.. and I know for a fact that Dakota County is concerned about walkers on the trails there.

I also almost ran into an elderly guy out walking the warm-up loop today. I couldn't get myself to say anything to him, but I should have! It is unsafe for these people.. and even if they are on our trails, you know who will get blamed if there is an incident.

If you are out there and see a walker, feel free to smile and say hello, but point out that they are in danger because they are on a biking trail where riders aren't expecting walkers. If we don't yell, maybe it will help. (?)

Aside from that, I think we could use some signs placed slightly into each bike only trail stating to all walkers that they should turn around and exit. I sometimes think the little hiker with a red cross through them must fool people.... in all seriousness there are a lot of little signs out there, and perhaps there is still some confusion.

I suggest a hiker warning sign about 10 feet into each trail, and a wrong way sign at the exit of each major section. (there are still riders going the wrong way on the warm-up loop)

Any other thoughts?

[TrailPatrol]

I know the county (or any land manager) has the right and authority to regulate trail use any way it wants to, but I have problem with this. Part of my concern comes from the fact that the trails I maintain and use up north are multiple-use. (Cutfoot Sioux Trail wouldn't even exist without equestrians!) The other part is that IMBA has been pushing multi-use trails for years, and every foot of "our" trail we build is a move away from that concept. I feel that the more non-motorized users we have involved with a trail, the better it is for that trail when support is needed

Ride safe,
Hans

[Tim Wegner]

Well I guess I will wade into this discussion. When I encounter a hiker on the trail I stop, greet them and then inform them that this trail is mountain bike only. I explain that the trails are seperated for safety reasons. Your next step should be to tell them the quickest way to get to the hiking trails. Then if you are Jan Lee you invite them to help with trail work on Tuesday nights!!!

Maybe the hikers just like our narrower trails and the more intimate feeling of being in the woods that our trails give to all users.

IMBA'a position on multi-use trails is based more upon their experience with trail building in the West. The trails there do not get nearly as much use as the Metro trails. When Joey Klein was here to help with the initial layout of the trails he was a strong supporter of single use trails in a Metro area like ours. I feel that single use trails are best but if it is multi-use or no bikes allowed I will support multiuse trails.

[Trevize1138]

I've noticed this problem, too. They seem to wander onto the trail toward the end of the main loop, just after you dump out of the expert loop, up the doubletrack hill and start in on the last, long downhill. Right in that open meadow area I've probably seen a total of 7 walkers looking surprised to see bikers on the trail. I've also seen people walking further down the trail from there right in the fast, dangerous downill section.

I'm guessing the best solution is to find out where, in that area, the walking trail and biking trail intersect and determine where the confusion comes in, then put in some new signs. From what I've seen, they only wander onto the trail in that particular area.

[gopherhockey]

Yea, thats definitely an area that needs some work. I believe eventually there will be a re-route of the trail there - "Tim's Dream Trail" - but until then there are definitely areas where hikers cross over our path.

I'm all for a better sign at the trailhead as well - not that bulletin board sign that gets full of all sorts of nonesense, but something permanent that highlights some of the trail rules, gives some warnings to go the right direction, to stay off trails not marked for your purpose etc.

Its definitely a work in progress. Hopefull we can stop those we see on the bike trails and inform them (as Tim mentioned) and we'll at least get to a few people. I don't know, it might be interesting to ask them if they realize they are on a bike trail or not... they may lie, or they might actually point out how we can improve the signage..

[SickBoy]

I would think if you encounter a walker you have one of two options:

1. Pass tactfully like you would on a multi use trail, meaning call out well ahead of time and slow down. And forget about mentioning this issue....

2. Come to a COMPLETE stop and chat with them a little and be courteous about mentioning that the singletrack is not multi use trail (and guide them to the quickest way back to the multiuse trails as mentioned earlier)

The thing NOT to do would be to fly by and yell "Get off the trail" or something like that as you zip by. Even though you're 100% in the right, this doesn't foster a good relationship with walkers.

The way I see it, there is no reason why, when as a group we approach the parks to build a single use trail and are given permission to do so, and marking the trail as such, why we would have to coexist with walkers. Multiuse trails are fine but when MORC puts this kind of effort in specifically for cyclists, we should be allowed to reap the benefits.

[Trevize1138]

On my ride tonight I caught a flat and ended up walking the bike a little ways. I bypassed the expert loop and took a stroll along the little beginner's loop bypass.

On the way, I noticed that the hiking trail intersected. Then, where the hiking trail usually goes there's a big barrier saying "trail closed" and a whole bunch of logs thrown onto the trail.

If you look through the woods (and know where to look) you'll see a teeny tiny little sign with a hiker on it pointing out where the hiking trail continues. If you're not looking for it, you'll miss it and end up following the biking trail right out into the meadow and then along the fast, curvy downhill.

Guess you can't blame walkers for being out on that section of trail after all! New signs, anyone?

P.S.: Gopherhockey, notice I put a parking lot report into my trail report for Lebannon? :etard:

[gopherhockey]

Mr. D, you are so very observant.. and right. I think there definitely is room for improvement in our signage... and I think we've found some signs to do just that in the coming weeks.

As much as we complain about the hikers, we can certainly do better in directing them around the trails they do own. The area you talk about is definitely one we can work on.

Maybe at one of our trail sessions after we get the new xx loop done we can take a walk from a hikers perspective and mark down some spots that could use better direction, or maybe find areas we can toss more crap onto the closed trails..

Anyone ever played lemmings before? ;)

Dakota does appreciate our efforts in re-routing and helping those "others" on the trails too.. it eventually just comes back to get us even more great trail...

[dave t]

The other day, I was flying down the only really fast, open down hill ski section and scattered a troop of boy scouts. I couldn't see them until I was way too close for adequate warning. I didn't even bother talking to them but usually when I find people hiking, I try to tell them if they are going to walk the bike trail, to at least walk the other direction so they can see bus coming.