Trail conditions

[Hardtailforever]

04/25/2003: Trail conditions were excellent today. Very dry everywhere. The only ruts were on the open path out of the upper parking lot by the rec centre where someone had ridden when it was still wet (stupid). Otherwise it was clear sailing, although it seemed like there was a lot of small debris on the trail in some spots. It seems like parts of the trail are being maintained, while parts just aren't. There aren't any serious problems, though, and for the most part the trail was outstanding. We had a great ride.

On a side note, the sign for the turn at the lower section by the stairs has broken off. Has anyone thought about making the switchbacks bypassing the stairs more interesting? It's just back and forth and then open gravel, which is boring in the extreme. It could use some rocks buried in the path to make it more technical. There's also a stone chute off the path which could be opened up as an option (since it ends up back on the path again). It wouldn't erode since it's completely stone and has a good runout.:cheesy:

[ostertoaster85]

Hang on! I haven't seen this stone chute. Where is it? Do you have to go down the stairs in order to see it or is it somewhere in the switchbacks?

I agree with you though that the switchbacks are kind of boring.

[gopherhockey]

Rode BC today.. a few comments. (or notes on future trail work)

First, lots of ruts that seem to be getting deeper. Would love to see some of these shaved off and some de-berming done on the outslopes on the sections of trail that actually are built in the proper spot.

Some signs are missing and/or broken. There are a few signs that could cause some confusion as well - not sure if they are left over from skiing, or they are really meant to be where they are. One "do not enter" type sign was right on the main doubletrack that could really cause some troubles if people actually obey it.

I tried to cut some trees down where possible, but it could use a trimming. Watch for low hanging branches here and there, especially on some of the fast swooping downhill sections (where it is almost too late).

The new switchback on the west side of the creek is nice, but it exits you out right on a gravel road. I saw people confused there - some making their own trails. The sign at the top where the switchback starts was broken off, so I saw many people miss that nice section of trail.

People are still bombing down the middle of one of the east switchbacks (the one with the little black bridges that turns maybe 12 times on its way up) - more logs could possibly help discourage this.

Other than these minor things, this is a fun place to ride. Every time I go there I wonder why I don't ride there more. They have a good trailhead map (probably the best of all metro trails) but I suggest riding it with someone who knows it, or plan on doing lots of exploring (which is also fun).

It would be cool if the county/city would allow more trail to be fixed there. It seems a lot of great singletrack could replace the doubletrack that reminds me of the old Lebanon trails (but more sand at the bottom).

I'd give almost anything to have Lebanon and BC together. (maybe Murphy will end up like that???)

[ostertoaster85]

As far as the trail with the little blace bridges, I think that the reason that people bomb down it is that the trail doesn't flow well, particularily on the section about half way up the hill. I'm able to stick the turns and keep up momentum except for that section of the hill. There, I have to brake really hard to make the turns and it just feels better to go down the middle for a little while.

If that one section in the middle could be rerouted so that the turns are wider and the trail cuts back and forth farther along the hill, I think that it would make it flow better and people would stick on the trail that they are supposed to be.

I would be glad to help with the work involved in this.

P.S. Yes, I am admitting to have riden down the middle at the one section about half way up the hill. I try not to do it very often.

[gopherhockey]

Shame shame shame... ;)

Yea, I am not as in on the political dealings on BC, but I'm guessing doing any changes or modifications is not quite as easy as it is at Lebanon, even on existing trails... I also wonder if failures to show that the new re-routes will discourage riders from riding where they want (cough cough..) makes it difficult to get permission to do more.

Lets see if Steve Garnjobst shows up to post on this subject. He is the trail steward at BC and knows the most about what could be done officially.

I'm sure if a slight re-route could help, he would be more than willing to entertain doing so if permitted.. and I know we could always use help on these trails.

For now, we should maybe pile up more logs and try keep off until we can fix it... I think erosion is the main concern on that hill, and if we don't keep it from happening we'll likely lose the entire hill. :cryin:

Thanks for your input! It is good to get rider feedback like that... I hardly go down that section, but I have noticed what you are saying. The section could definiely fit wider arcs, hopefully without having to re-postition the small bridges.

[Hardtailforever]

Hang on! I haven't seen this stone chute. Where is it? Do you have to go down the stairs in order to see it or is it somewhere in the switchbacks?

I't after the switchbacks come back on the main gravel trail (which sucks if you ask me). It drops off and actually runs out back on the trail. Right now it's pretty much covered in debris and sticks and stuff. Check it out. I rode it last year (after much debate over the merits of adventure vs the potential for paralysis) and would do it again in a second now I know it's not that scary. It just needs to be opened up again.

[Hardtailforever]

.People are still bombing down the middle of one of the east switchbacks (the one with the little black bridges that turns maybe 12 times on its way up) - more logs could possibly help discourage this.

Aren't you supposed to ride up that section of the trail anyway? Isn't that the point?

I usually ride down the lower side (now where those stupid stairs and boring rerout are) and then back up via the switchbacks.

[gopherhockey]

Originally posted by Hardtailforever
Right now it's pretty much covered in debris and sticks and stuff. Check it out. I rode it last year (after much debate over the merits of adventure vs the potential for paralysis) and would do it again in a second now I know it's not that scary. It just needs to be opened up again.

Thats probably a sign that it was closed off for good. We might want to get the final word on this from Steve Garnjobst (trail steward). Usually when you see "debris, sticks and stuff" it means there is no longer a trail there.

I'm not 100% sure though, I'll see if I can get the word from Steve. We just want to be sure people aren't finding old trails and opening them back up again. (see our old Lebanon discussions on this topic)

[TrailPatrol]

Ben,
I don't ride BC a lot (about twice a year) so I am not real familiar with the whole course. Having negotiated the Patrol's agreement with Ramsey County, though, I am familiar with the "politics" and what the county expects out of MORC and the riders out there.

Is the trail you are talking about a "fall line" trail? (straight downhill?) if so, it is most likely closed to prevent erosion. As John pointed out, when you see "debris" on an old trail, it is probably not "natural selection." The idea is to keep riders off trails with a high erosion potential.

I know it may seem to you and others that we are making a lot of "boring" trails just to kiss butt of the land managers, but the ongoing battle for access has been hard fought, and the trails we have won are by no means guaranteed forever. All it takes is a few "individualists" to take away the trail opportunities for all of us.

Please, please, please...follow IMBA's Rules of the Trail. Rule # 1: Only ride on open trails!

And then there's my rule...

...Ride safe,
Hans

[MNbiker]

Here are a few updates & answers to some of the questions in this thread:

-The trails at Battle Creek, while in generally good condition, are showing significant wear in some areas. This is due to two factors:
1. Many of the trails were originally social trails that weren't well designed (or weren't designed at all!), and are prone to erosion. We've fixed or closed down most of the really eroded sections, but we still have some work to do in this regard.
2. The trails at Battle Creek are getting heavy use, so some core trails (like the one leading from the parking lot), are getting worn in, simply due to traffic volume. This summer, we'll scrape these smooth & maybe harden them in a few spots.

-The rock chutes in the southwest corner of the park are unfortunately closed. This was my favorite section of trail in the park, so I'm not too thrilled either. Unfortunately, there were some erosion problems with the old fall-line downhill trail that couldn't be resolved, so the County constructed the new gravel path. I agree, the gravel path is boring - plus it wasn't designed very well, as it has erosion problems as well. I'll be working with the County this year, to see what can be done to improve both the riding experience and the sustainability of this trail section. By the way, the chutes are sandstone, so they are definitely NOT erosion-proof. In fact, all the rock sections have large piles of sand at the bottom from eroded/broken rocks.

-Starting May 22nd, we'll be conducting weekly Thursday evening trail work sessions at Battle Creek. We'll also do 1 or 2 larger weekend sessions this summer.

-I'm open to suggestions on how the hill with the black pallet bridges can be changed to improve flow. I never have liked this trail. Unfortunately, the County created some difficult terrain for us to work with, when they constructed this former access road. This hill has the worst drainage problems in the entire park, which is why we have tried to keep people out of the central gully. A free MORC t-shirt goes to the person who comes up with a good re-design for this trail section!

-Time & funds permitting, I would like to add some rock features to some of the BC trails this year, both for hardening and for increased technical challenge. Motre to come....

-Steve Garnjobst
MORC Trail Crew Coordinator - Battle Creek

[Hardtailforever]

Now that I've looked at it, you're right about the sandstone. I'll stay off that chute.

About the switchbacks- I think the simple solution is to make it one way: up. Nobody is going to ride up the middle of the trail, and nobody is going to go skidding around the corners. I personally think the trail sucks to ride down, but it's a great ride up.

[ostertoaster85]

I think that the trail needs to swoop back and forth farther in the switch back section so that the turns are wider and banked up on the sides of the little ravine there. This would put the turns a little way up the sides of the ravine so that they would be out of the soft, wet, drainage part of the ravine. Of course, this might have other problems that I don't realize.

[Hardtailforever]

Ok, what the hell is with the big spike at the bottom of the SW corner by the lower parking lot?! It's evidently a chunk of metal left from a broken signpost or something, and it wouldn't take much to get it out of there. It simply requires tools or I would have done it yesterday after it tore a chunk out of my tire. I was pissed. Thank goodness I carry an extra tube, but someone could get seriously hurt by that. I saw a bunch of kids down there playing in flip-flop sandles.

Speaking of kids, somebody was walking their dog and 4 kids on the lower switchback (bypass around the stairs). The sign for the turn off is gone, and nowhere is it marked that people shouldn't walk there. Apparently the kids were all deaf, too, since I had to ask them 4 times to get off the turn. I was polite and thanked them, but man were they slow. They didn't move until their mom repeated exactly what I'd said. They just stood there and stared at me.

Also, apparently the county cut the budget for the rec centre: they no longer stock cold-packs in their first aid kit, and their ice machine is broken (don't ask :hit: ). What's up with that?

[ostertoaster85]

At the top of the hill with the little black bridges there is a clearing that the trail runs through. In the middle of the clearing, just to the side of the trail is a short stump. You have probably all seen it before and maybe even have run into it. (I know I have.)

Anyways, I was thinking that we should either make it more visible or remove it. Today, I saw a guy hit it and crash hard. It took him about five minutes before he was able to get up. I thought that he had broken his collarbone or something. He ended up being just bruised and scraped up but it's probably not safe to have a hidden stump right next to the trail.

[Don Youngdahl]

Originally posted by ostertoaster85
At the top of the hill with the little black bridges there is a clearing that the trail runs through. In the middle of the clearing, just to the side of the trail is a short stump.

Anyways, I was thinking that we should either make it more visible or remove it.

I'll pass your post along to one of the MORC Battle Creek trail crew people to chop it down or paint it bright orange again. I'd suggest you just do it, except that park management wants all trail workers to wear the orange MORC Trail Crew vests, so people don't have the impression that anything goes as far as trail work.

Don Youngdahl

[Kingbozo]

Rode BC yesterday. Trail conditions are pretty much perfect. Watch out for bees. (The stump mentioned in the previous two posts is gone)

[GearDaddy]

Originally posted by Kingbozo
Rode BC yesterday. Trail conditions are pretty much perfect. Watch out for bees. (The stump mentioned in the previous two posts is gone)

I rode at BC yesterday too, and I'd say conditions are just OK, not perfect. I hadn't ridden out there for a month or so, but I noticed that things are pretty loose, i.e. there's a lot more sand and many of the uphills are showing some wear and tear. It's been a bit dry lately, so maybe that's expected. It is not nearly in as good of shape as Lebanon though.

Also, I kept encountering other riders going the opposite direction too. The trails aren't marked as one-way, so it's not a big deal. But, it was curious to me especially that I kept seeing people riding the lower section (below the road, but still on top of the hill) in a counter-clockwise direction. I have always ridden this section in a clockwise direction. What's up with that?

[Kingbozo]

I've found the sand to be par for the course there. There really isn't much that can be done about it-the soil is sandy. So I will amend it and say "perfect for BC" :)

[Kingbozo]

Also, I kept encountering other riders going the opposite direction too. The trails aren't marked as one-way, so it's not a big deal. But, it was curious to me especially that I kept seeing people riding the lower section (below the road, but still on top of the hill) in a counter-clockwise direction. I have always ridden this section in a clockwise direction. What's up with that?

Personally my friends and I more or less figured out our own routes when we started riding there. Depending on what "route" we are taking we ride that section in both directions.

What time were you there, we might have run accross you.

[GearDaddy]

Originally posted by Kingbozo
What time were you there, we might have run accross you.

I was there roughly noon to 2:00PM, wearing a red jersey and riding a Kona. While riding on that same section I passed by 2 guys wearing a team kit (for a club I didn't recognize) and another dude wearing a black T-shirt. The T-shirt guy looked like he had either biffed or run into the race dudes right on one of those steep up-n-down sections right on the edge of the bluff.

[Kingbozo]

Originally posted by GearDaddy
I was there roughly noon to 2:00PM, wearing a red jersey and riding a Kona. While riding on that same section I passed by 2 guys wearing a team kit (for a club I didn't recognize) and another dude wearing a black T-shirt. The T-shirt guy looked like he had either biffed or run into the race dudes right on one of those steep up-n-down sections right on the edge of the bluff.

We were there around the tail end of when you were there.I don't recall seeing you, so our paths probably didn't cross. I would have been easily recognizable as the really tall guy on an Enduro looking like death on the climbs. Note to self-Eat before riding! I did see the "team" guys.