How To Go Faster Through The North Loop? [Archive] - Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists Discussion Forums

grimlock

07-27-2009, 07:46 PM

Without spending money making my bike lighter, how can I go faster through the North Loop? I bought a cheapo watch last week to track my lap times and I can't seem to beat the time from my second day of timing my runs. I'm trying to nail down each variable in my riding and have them listed below.

Braking:
Currently I suspect one of my biggest riding mistakes is using the rear brake more than the front brake. Will using the front brake more often allow me to go significantly faster? I do like using my rear brake because it allows me to drift out my rear tire slightly on fast and sharp turns. I biked on a BMX for much of my youth and it only had a rear brake. That's how I got into the habit of only using the rear brake.

Shifting:
As far as shifting gears goes, should I be changing gears more or less frequently? Because there aren't any huge climbs, I have been able to stick it in one gear the entire way, but have found that making frequent changes does seem to help. Any thoughts on this one? Should I be shifting constantly with every change of slope, or only occasionally?

Sitting vs. Standing:
Should I be sitting or standing for the majority of the run? I have a hard tail so standing does help smoothen out the ride (which I assume means more speed) but it also raises my center of gravity which isn't any good for cornering. My view currently is to sit as much as possible unless the terrain is really bumpy. Thoughts?

I see fast riders at Wirth all the time so I know you're out there. :)
Any tips about braking, shifting, sitting vs. standing, and anything else would be appreciated, thanks.

itchynate

07-27-2009, 08:06 PM

More front brake. These guys are going to tear you apart for saying you drift on a trail, but I wont.

Use your 3 or 4 top gears and you should be fine for most situations. But dont be afraid to go to that higher gear to get higher speed.

Standing will gain you more speed.

grimlock

07-27-2009, 08:19 PM

Oh crap, crap, crap, sorry! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
I do let my rear wheel drift out occasionally, I've read people complaining about skid marks on here, I'll definitely stop that.

Scotch

07-27-2009, 08:40 PM

I found faster times by lowering the handlebars on my bike to put more of the weight onto the front tire, where i found i had less grip. My back hurt more, but i was faster. Then i got used to it and my back is better.

Tire pressures can make a big difference in the grip you have available in the turns too. I run at 30 psi or so, but I'm pretty light.

Make sure you have the suspension settings on your bike adjusted correctly. the right spring rate(air pressure) and damping adjustments will improve grip and control.

Working on cornering lines to maintain speed helps a ton. less braking and less pedaling on the other side. Also hitting the technical stuff at the right speed allows you to keep momentum up, but too fast and you risk loosing control, and often end up slowing down after the obstacle to get back into line. I was riding my rigid singlespeed this weekend and it really made me appreciate taking the right lines. Heavy 29er wheels and tall gearing makes you pay for it every time you slow down.

Mk3Rider

07-27-2009, 10:05 PM

Keep in mind that Theo has no big hits on the trail so run your fork with as much sag as you feel comfortable with, to get full motion of the fork over the obsticals. You are also on a never ending corner so strait line speed is a non issue. Softer tire pressure helps you hold a line around these corners along w/ the softer fork to soak up the differences in terrain. The trick is to maintain traction while you lean in the corners. A high pressure front tire and/or a harder fork will cause your front tire to wash out in the corners.

When the surface gets dry out there you will hear your tires start to sing to you when they start hitting their traction limits. This is your key indicator of what speeds your bike/tires are capable of. Coming into the corners you will want to use BOTH brakes at roughly 80% front 20% rear for stopping. Staying in the right gear is very important also, so shift to lower gears right before or while you brake. Once you stop w/ the brakes you need to put power down as soon as possible. If you have a higher bottom braket FS bike you have an advantage due to less likely to get pedal strikes while you lean.

Pedal pedal pedal from a seated position if you are comfortable with it. Pedal in the corners, pedal over rougher surfaces, and pedal harder when you are on hills. Coming into corners go in deep when you brake, lean your bike over on your turn in and pick an apex. Once the bike starts to lean start to pedal w/ out hitting the ground w/ your pedals.

I run a 5" FS bike out there with 50% sag on the rear and 30% up front. Being smooth around the corners to maintain your momentum will make you faster than dumping lots of energy into the system.

Mountain Jam

07-27-2009, 10:28 PM

Get yourself some CERA or other blood boosting supplement like the roadies do!

On a serious note, I would focus more on choosing your line and maximizing your momentum on every turn, obstacle, climb, etc.
Try finding a comfortable gear and ride the trail without shifting, roll smoothly into turns and accelerate out of them.

flombe

07-27-2009, 11:46 PM

Not in any order of importance:

Intentional skidding is really tough on the trail and to be avoided. However, with the silt/dust on hardpack conditions drifting is inevitable. When you hear your tires making a rubberized velcro tearing sound through the corners you are at the limit of traction and this is where you need to be to push your speeds up. If/when you begin to break loose, muscle the bike upright and pull it back under you to regain grip. Know that the mass that is flying through the woods is your body, not your bike. The bike is your tool to use to redirect your mass. You can move that bike around beneath you. A lot.

I find myself climbing all over my bike like a rolling jungle gym to redistribute weight, position for hitting lines without smacking trees, lifting/pulling the front end around, pushing the back end to redirect your momentum, counterweighting the bars to force the front end to bite, etc. The good news is that Theo forces you to develop your bike handling skills the more you push it.

Redline on every climb and every straight or flowy section. You'll recover in the twisty stuff.

Look ahead and pick your lines so you can plan 2-3 turns ahead. Pop your brakes prior to corners to allow time to set up for your line and then hold on. Typically my crank arms are in the horizontal position when entering the turn. Find a balance of front vs. rear braking distribution. Sometimes you need to hit the front brake more to drive your tire into the dirt to initiate your line. Be sure to watch your weight distribution to avoid going OTB. Mash the pedals on exit. Repeat....

Experiment with lower and lower tire pressure. At 185 LB dressed, I run tubeless in the mid-20's.

Above all be smart and ride at a pace where you can experiment, learn and improve without injuring yourself.

gordanfreeman

07-28-2009, 05:06 AM

Braking:
learn to use and love your front brake. it will slow you faster, meaning you can carry your speed longer before having to slow down. using the rear in corners will cause the tire to wash out easier, which can cause other problems.

Shifting:
personally, i'm happy running in just one or two different gears in any given lap at theo. the thing that can save time is knowing when to shift ahead of time. theo has a few sharp corners that tend to rob speed badly. making sure to downshift prior can make a huge difference in re-acceleration once you're through. sometimes i feel my fastest laps are in a lower gear with me trying to use the brakes as little as possible. if i'm cranking a higher gear i'm going faster on the straights but probably wasting more energy trying to rebound after slowing so much for a corner.

Sitting vs. Standing:
i ride a hardtail and love to stand. i've been standing for most of my laps lately, sitting ususally only to take a drink or a quick breather on a straight. i run my seatpost pretty low which allows me to really move the bike around beneath me, which helps in corners as well as most any obstacle.

i like to enter sharp corners with my cranks vertical, outside down. this helps weight the inside edge on your tires, providing more traction. i tend to lean forward into corners slightly if possible, giving even more traction to my front tire--it's much easier to recover from a rear slide out than a front so keeping that front stuck to the ground is key. playing with suspension settings and tire pressure can make a huge difference in keeping your tires in contact with the ground at all times.

grimlock

07-28-2009, 06:16 PM

Thanks for all of the tips! I'm already making changes to the way I ride.

I just ordered a proper bike pump today and will experiment with different tire pressures when it comes. The bike pump I have doesn't have a barometer on it, which makes it tough to find the optimal pressure.

I looked more into adjusting the suspension correctly which made a huge difference. Since buying my bike, I didn't touch the preload, but what a difference it made after tweaking it. Before, the suspension was as stiff as nails, but today, my ride was SUPER plush. Going over all of Wirth's small log piles didn't bounce me around as much as before.

I took my laps much slower today so I could get used to my front brake and hitting my apexes. My lap time was more than 2 minutes slower, but I know things will get better.

Will post progress updates...

guest_s

07-29-2009, 09:54 AM

Sliding the rear wheel with the rear brake is not faster at all. It may feel faster, but it is not. Use more front brake than rear just before you enter the turn so you have a controlled non-sliding turn. This way, about 2/3 the way through the turn, you can start pedaling and power out of the turn.

I raced BMX for 20 years. In the late 70's and early 80's, sliding a turn was old school and riders learned that proper entering speed and power out of the turn was the fastest way through the corner.

Yes skidding is bad for the trail too. As you ride those sections of trail that are super bumpy right before the turns........you see this on many of our trails......those nasty bumps are caused by riders skidding into the turns.

PHRANQUY

07-29-2009, 10:26 AM

I looked more into adjusting the suspension correctly which made a huge difference. Since buying my bike, I didn't touch the preload, but what a difference it made after tweaking it. Before, the suspension was as stiff as nails, but today, my ride was SUPER plush. Going over all of Wirth's small log piles didn't bounce me around as much as before.

This brings up an interesting question, which I was strugling with at first this year being new to having any suspension. Are you running into the log piles with your front tire or are you lifting your front tire before the pile and allowing your momentum to carry your back tire over, perhaps even bunny hopping over the pile? This was my biggest problem, and still is on some larger logs, but pulling yourself up and overthe log piles can be the biggest improvement you can make in those situations.

MrBatzloff

07-29-2009, 11:09 AM

I ride a full rigid SS 29er at Theo (well, everywhere), so I won't go into all that stuff.

I've gotten pretty quick in the last couple of years, especially at Theo, so here's a few observations:

Two of the biggest momentum-sucks I've found are overbraking and overshifting. The key to theo (i think) is to never let yourself "spin out," meaning you should always be putting ample exertion into your pedal stroke. I ride with a 34x18 ratio right now and am finding that's getting a bit easy for theo, but perfect for lebanon. As far as the actual pedaling, I never stop. My legs are almost always turning, I find it helps be build a rythm around corners, turns, and obstacles.

Braking: My last couple times out I've noticed that I've been braking a bit too much. Two things with braking: practice NOT braking (which will be a little scary the first few times), and practice using one-finger braking techniques. Aside from more accurate modulation, this is most important in my next point, man-handling your bike.

I completely agree with Flombe, I'm ALL OVER my bike when I ride, and except on the climbs I'm almost always standing at theo. When going around corners I sling the bike back and forth muscling it into the best line. Here's where the one finger braking is important, it allows you to brake into the corners and power the bike back into a straight line because you have a better hold on it. (on a side note, if your bars are uncut, cut them down a bit. I'm 6'0" with pretty broad shoulders and still run a 23" flat bar. I used to run a 25" riser on my HT trek).

Tires: The biggest improvement I found in speed was getting a set of tires I was confident with. For me (two years ago) this was a 2.5 weirwolf front and a 2.4 mutano rear. Mondo grip, and because I wasn't that fast yet I wasn't (nor should have been) too concerned with rolling resistance. These tires let me gain confidence and learn how the bike should feel. Now I run a 2.2 nevegal front and an SB8 like rear at about 35 psi.

hmm. I wrote a lot. over and out. good luck.

Ol Dirty Biker

07-29-2009, 01:26 PM

Substituting a portion of water consumption with Grain Belt Premium, Mickey's, or Miller High Life seems to make some folks faster. Olde English 800 also has been rumored to work, but it requires larger portions of water displacement.

Disclaimer: Don't do this. Trees can hurt. :hit:

guest_s

07-29-2009, 01:48 PM

I'm ALL OVER my bike when I ride, and except on the climbs I'm almost always standing at theo. When going around corners I sling the bike back and forth muscling it into the best line.

YES!! Now that is the way to ride!! When I started riding singlespeed and Theo.......my BMX days all came back to me......and this is how you ride a BMX bike!

guest_s

07-29-2009, 02:04 PM

I took my laps much slower today so I could get used to my front brake and hitting my apexes. My lap time was more than 2 minutes slower, but I know things will get better.

That's a great idea. Sometimes to relearn how to do things, you need to slow down and take time to learn new techniques.

Your speed will increase and actually get better soon. Just remember, using the front brake will allow you to go faster for longer before you start braking. Also, if you don't slide in the turn, you can start pedaling out of the turn much sooner because you will have full traction and control of your bike. Those two things should improve your time and make you faster than you were before. Carry more speed into and out of the turn this way....:)

guest_s

07-29-2009, 02:07 PM

Please keep in mind that when you are riding Theo, you must yield to all trail crossings. This includes the new Luce Line crossings and all of the Ski Trail crossings.

Just a reminder that I need to throw in there since I am a Theo Trail Steward.....;)

Nordicguy

07-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Researchers at Granada University in Spain found this Nobel Prize-worthy discovery after months of testing 25 student subjects, who were asked to run ona tread mill in grueling temps (104 degrees F) until they were as close to exhaustion as possible. Half were given water to drink, and the other half drank two pints of Spanish lager. Then the godly researchers measured their hydration levels, motor skills, and concentration ability.

They determined that the beer drinkers had "slightly better" rehydration effects, which researchers attribute to sugars, salts, and bubbles in beer enhancing the body's ability to absorb water. The carbohydrates in beer also help refill calorie deficits.

Based on the results of the study, researchers recommend moderate consumptionof beer as a part of athletes' diets. "Moderate consumption" for men is 500ml per day, and for women is 250ml per day.

Substituting a portion of water consumption with Grain Belt Premium, Mickey's, or Miller High Life seems to make some folks faster. Olde English 800 also has been rumored to work, but it requires larger portions of water displacement.

Disclaimer: Don't do this. Trees can hurt. :hit:

mara

07-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Please keep in mind that when you are riding Theo, you must stop and yeild at all trail crossings.

Fixed it for you.

Yes, there are stop signs at all Luce Line trail crossings. Luce Line and ski trail users will not be looking for mountain bikers. It is our obligation to yield to them.

Nordicguy

07-29-2009, 02:19 PM

Fixed it for you.

Yes, there are stop signs at all Luce Line trail crossings. Luce Line and ski trail users will not be looking for mountain bikers. It is our obligation to yield to them.

Also fixed for you:) Couldn't help myself after I read your post:p

Not sure why I even wrote that because there is nothing more annoying than a message board editor and god knows my grammar stinks quite often

Ol Dirty Biker

07-29-2009, 02:33 PM

Based on the results of the study, researchers recommend moderate consumption of beer as a part of athletes' diets. "Moderate consumption" for men is 500ml per day.

So based on this recommendation, 1 can of Surly (roughly 500ml) shotgunned while stopped and yielding at trail crossings would be the perfect way to ensure optimal lap times.

MrBatzloff

07-29-2009, 04:18 PM

So based on this recommendation, 1 can of Surly (roughly 500ml) shotgunned while stopped and yielding at trail crossings would be the perfect way to ensure optimal lap times.

I think you're on to something here! Anyone for a Hash House Harrier ride???

MrBatzloff

07-29-2009, 04:20 PM

YES!! Now that is the way to ride!! When I started riding singlespeed and Theo.......my BMX days all came back to me......and this is how you ride a BMX bike!

Same here. I rode BMX when I was a kid and it's why I like my rigid 29er so much. It's like a BMX for big people. I do still have my old GT Interceptor around though (circa 1989).

dopey048

07-29-2009, 04:30 PM

Did many Hash runs in the service. Now on a bike, this could get ugly.

tacdad

07-29-2009, 07:15 PM

I still like the idea of everybody getting their BMX racers out to a trail and have fun. Theo would be an excellent trail.

Mk3Rider

07-29-2009, 08:32 PM

I am game for that!

I still like the idea of everybody getting their BMX racers out to a trail and have fun. Theo would be an excellent trail.

grimlock

07-29-2009, 08:46 PM

(on a side note, if your bars are uncut, cut them down a bit. I'm 6'0" with pretty broad shoulders and still run a 23" flat bar. I used to run a 25" riser on my HT trek).

This is something I have been thinking about since buying my bike. I am a small man at 5'7", 135 lbs, and I would say my shoulders aren't particularly wide. I could easily just dremel off a cm or two and make sharper turns, but then the more I started thinking about it, the more I thought a wider bar might help. Below is my reasoning, comments would be appreciated as I don't have the experience to know which option would be the best.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/secretshadowninja/bar.png

07-29-2009, 08:55 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/secretshadowninja/bar.png

August '09 issue of Mountain Bike action has a decent article with side by side tests of 24,25,26&27" wide bars. May be worth checking out.

Trevize1138

07-29-2009, 10:03 PM

When it comes right down to it, you'll get faster at Theo by riding it ... a LOT! :) I don't know how many hundreds of laps I have under my belt out there but I got to know every corner and every little detail. Since you just got a watch to track your times you've already taken a big step toward improving your speed.

If you ever feel like you've "plateaued" find someone who's just a tiny bit faster than you, say 15-30 seconds faster per lap and ride with 'em. You'll both get personal bests, I can almost guarantee it.

While you're doing laps and laps and laps and laps you'll likely play around with tire pressures, bar configurations, suspension stiffness and all that, too. The real key, though, is just riding the damn thing. :)

This is something I have been thinking about since buying my bike. I am a small man at 5'7", 135 lbs, and I would say my shoulders aren't particularly wide. I could easily just dremel off a cm or two and make sharper turns, but then the more I started thinking about it, the more I thought a wider bar might help. Below is my reasoning, comments would be appreciated as I don't have the experience to know which option would be the best.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/secretshadowninja/bar.png

MrBatzloff

07-29-2009, 11:21 PM

The real key, though, is just riding the damn thing. :)

Word.

bigsur08

07-29-2009, 11:37 PM

tubeless with 20 psi. Also less braking-ride the back of seat on corners tagged with leaning into-let bike work for you-pump pump pump corners

[quote While you're doing laps and laps and laps and laps you'll likely play around with tire pressures, bar configurations, suspension stiffness and all that, too. The real key, though, is just riding the damn thing. :)[/quote]

flombe

07-29-2009, 11:47 PM

Same here. I rode BMX when I was a kid and it's why I like my rigid 29er so much. It's like a BMX for big people. I do still have my old GT Interceptor around though (circa 1989).

More rambling....

Completely agree as a former BMX racing addict (late 70's to summer of '83). Rigid 29er 34:18 SS at Theo is a gas and I often think of that bike as my overgrown BMX machine. I continue to find spots to catch a little air to add to the effect. I too have my BMX ride hanging in the garage, a Hutch that needs some new rubber and a tune up. A BMX group ride would be interesting. Not sure I would trust the 20" wheels on the silty trail. Maybe Theo needs monster berms? Ahh, no.

I have to correct myself on crank position when cornering. After riding tonight I realize that I drop the outside arm to the bottom position on fast leaners. Otherwise I keep pedals level. Or, keep on spinning.

Also feel wider bars are an advantage due to increased leverage.

Sitting vs. standing? I stand for speed or climbing. Often frimly planted on my seat to force the rear tire to bite better through the turns.

Chris D is right on with just ride the damn thing, too!

quickerpicker

07-30-2009, 07:04 AM

250 cc between your legs.

Ooops, wrong forum....

guest_s

07-30-2009, 10:01 AM

I don't understand the super narrow bar thing at Theo or anywhere. I run mine around 26" and am totally fine. I like the wider bars for leverage while standing and pedaling. With narrow bars you lose a lot of control over the bike and needed leverage. For those who stay seated almost the whole time, sure......you don't need wide bars. But at Wirth I bet I am standing 70%, if not more, of the time.

When pulling up the front wheel, you have a lot more stability with wider bars and the allow your arms to bend correctly when pulling back.

For the few narrow sections with trees........it's easy to learn how to work a wider bar through there and it's actually quite fun. You have to move the bike (while standing is best) and keep your body centered.......good times......:)

Trevize1138

07-30-2009, 10:19 AM

250 cc between your legs.

Ooops, wrong forum....

That's only for when Theo's super wet and muddy, Carl. :crazy:

MrBatzloff

07-30-2009, 10:59 AM

I don't understand the super narrow bar thing at Theo or anywhere.

The 23" bars I'm using now are mostly an experiment. I got a good deal on a pair of carbon flat bars so thought I'd give it a try. I've run both wide and narrow bars, and now that I'm mostly using the narrows I've yet to find myself wanting for more leverage.

Right now, given how I ride, etc, I'm going to stick with the narrow bars. That little bit narrower profile can be helpful when dodging trees.

And, on a side note, as I was searching for a pair of flat bars, I found that 23" (or 580mm) seemed to be the "standard" width for XC style racing. Interesting when just about every new bike sold nowadays comes with a 27" walking stick bolted to the stem.

85911

07-30-2009, 11:04 AM

Otherwise I keep pedals level. Or, keep on spinning.

You too? In the real tight, twisty sections I keep spinning, sometimes feathering brakes at the same time.

guest_s

07-30-2009, 11:08 AM

And, on a side note, as I was searching for a pair of flat bars, I found that 23" (or 580mm) seemed to be the "standard" width for XC style racing. Interesting when just about every new bike sold nowadays comes with a 27" walking stick bolted to the stem.

How much XC style racing is like Theo? Most of those guys ride superlight and geared bikes and they rarely stand and throw the bike around........;)

MrBatzloff

07-30-2009, 11:37 AM

How much XC style racing is like Theo? Most of those guys ride superlight and geared bikes and they rarely stand and throw the bike around........;)

Agreed.

stoneage

07-30-2009, 12:00 PM

stoneage

07-30-2009, 12:10 PM

"Get yourself some CERA or other blood boosting supplement like the roadies do!"
Off-roaders are as dirty as the roadies. Believe it.
Felip Meirhaeghe (http://velonews.com/article/6697)
Paola Pezzo was so loaded you could get a contact positive shaking her hand.

jitterjepp

07-30-2009, 12:15 PM

For speed I don't spin but rather grab a big gear that I can still get cranking fast relatively quickly so that when I come out of the tight turns I can get my speed back immediately.

Also find someone that knows the trail well and follow them through it to see how they create a flow. I've gotten faster just from riding behind Bill and Scott a couple times.

quickerpicker

07-30-2009, 03:18 PM

Paola Pezzo was so loaded you could get a contact positive shaking her hand.

Now who wouldn't want that!:crazy:

stoneage

07-30-2009, 09:33 PM

Now who wouldn't want that!:crazy:
Don't get me wrong. I would hold her hand all day. But she was a doper.

high life

07-31-2009, 09:55 AM

I didn't read the entire thread, but:

should I be changing gears more?
SS it. Go ahead and try. Just don't shift.

sitting or standing?
Jump out of the saddle for a quick acceleration out of corners, then sit.

using the front brake more?
Use both brakes all the time. Get used to it. Release before the corner.

To be as fast as you can do all the things Billy mentioned above. Plus, keep your head up - at theo you should be looking two or three turns down the trail, not the turn in front of you. This is something I learned from alpine ski racing ~ you should always be looking 2 gates down the run. By doing this you are setting yourself up to turn earlier and better anticipate your turns. It is awkward to do this at first, but eventually it will become second nature. Just my $0.02

By the way...has anyone timed a lap this year with the new section of trail? Might have to do that sometime soon. It think the 29 SS will be the weapon of choice..probably 32:16.

quickerpicker

07-31-2009, 11:25 AM

..probably 32:16.

Is that your lap time? If so then I don't feel so bad!:D

mara

07-31-2009, 11:41 AM

Is that your lap time? If so then I don't feel so bad!:D

He obviously stops and looks both ways at all trail crossings and like all good mountain bikers, does not blatantly race on the trails. ;)

soupboy

07-31-2009, 12:04 PM

I would hold her hand all day.

You're a saint.;)

http://www.paolapezzo.com/foto/24hroma/24h_roma_024.jpg

grimlock

07-31-2009, 12:42 PM

I'll try doing that 2-3 turns ahead method, seems smart.
I've been getting better at using my front brake. While I still use my rear brake, I'm still about 80% front.

I also tried lifting my front tire over log piles instead of just ramming into them. I thought that lifting my front tire would make me less stable, but it worked like a charm. Thanks again for all of the advice!

high life

07-31-2009, 01:02 PM

Is that your lap time? If so then I don't feel so bad!:D

Only when I'm really hammering. :D

guest_s

07-31-2009, 01:03 PM

I've been getting better at using my front brake. While I still use my rear brake, I'm still about 80% front.

You don't want to use 100% front brake. about 75% front 25% rear should be fine.......it all depends on where your weight is when applying both brakes.

Trevize1138

07-31-2009, 02:45 PM

I'd say run bars as wide as you can to just before they're so wide they'd literally bring you to a dead stop at Theo's narrowest point.

The benefits of wider bars for control and torque far outweigh any extra speed that might be gained from what really comes down to one tree "gate" at Theo. There are some other tight spots but none of them come close to the one near where there used to be a rusty old office chair (roughly mid-way through the north loop). I've measured and I have about 1'' of clearance on both sides of my bars through there.

When I've set my own personal best times out there I've actually felt the outside of my hands brush the bark on 3-4 trees for just one lap! I'm able to successfully "brush" trees without hitting them like that partially because of all the hundreds of laps I've done. But, this is also a testement to your brain-body connection and how it's smarter and better than your eyes. You really can get that close to the trees safely.

On a related note, if you insist on riding Theo with bar ends then there is no hope for you. :cool:

The 23" bars I'm using now are mostly an experiment. I got a good deal on a pair of carbon flat bars so thought I'd give it a try. I've run both wide and narrow bars, and now that I'm mostly using the narrows I've yet to find myself wanting for more leverage.

Right now, given how I ride, etc, I'm going to stick with the narrow bars. That little bit narrower profile can be helpful when dodging trees.

And, on a side note, as I was searching for a pair of flat bars, I found that 23" (or 580mm) seemed to be the "standard" width for XC style racing. Interesting when just about every new bike sold nowadays comes with a 27" walking stick bolted to the stem.

Trevize1138

07-31-2009, 02:49 PM

Only when I'm really hammering. :D

That's when Tom slamms a couple High Lifes 1/2 way through a lap ... and takes a nap. :crazy:

guest_s

07-31-2009, 02:56 PM

On a related note, if you insist on riding a mountain bike with bar ends then there is no hope for you. :cool:

Fixed that for you.....;)

PHRANQUY

07-31-2009, 03:54 PM

I think I really need to get out there and check this place out...

Trevize1138

07-31-2009, 07:07 PM

Ha ha!

Whattya know? That one narrow spot has lost a tree since last I rode Theo. No question about it now: run your bars wide and remember to complete your turn before going between two trees on a curve.

I also, for one, like the new re-route! Will take time to round out some corners and smooth out in general but great work!

grimlock

08-01-2009, 02:31 PM

I went to Hillside today with some friends and tried the 2-3 turns ahead method and was able to really just flow through the trail. I haven't been able to hit Wirth and see how it affects my time, but I'm sure it will help! :D

Trevize1138

08-02-2009, 01:22 PM

In addition to looking ahead a few turns, the more I think about it the more crucial I see finishing your turn before passing between a pair of trees. Theo provides several examples where going wider before a pair of trees gives you more clearance.

quickerpicker

08-02-2009, 02:33 PM

we've spent much time discussing how to ride trails, another component is overall training. The best way to increase speed and power is hill work outs and intervals. It may not be as much fun as single track but doing laps at Elm Creek and hill work at Lake Rebecca are good places to work on climbs, descents, sprints, and power. Add some conditioning to your skill work, and watch the time come off!:metal:

grimlock

08-02-2009, 04:56 PM

Just got back from a ride and I'm happy to report I beat my best time by a whopping 39 seconds! Since plateauing when I first started this thread, I thought I'd only be able to shave 10 seconds off at the most, but with all of your tips, I was able to kill my old time. I think by far the most helpful tip is looking ahead 2-3 turns.

As far as conditioning goes, the pavement I have to pedal through from my house to the N. Loop is SUPER hilly and a great workout each time I ride.

My air pump comes tomorrow so I'll be able to optimize my tire pressure too. Thanks again for all of the tips!

Ol Dirty Biker

08-03-2009, 04:12 PM

I've been finding that acceleration is a key factor. Each corner (and yielded intersection) provides an opportunity to sprint back up to pace. Enter corners clean, fast and relaxed then exit like a scared rabbit, ON FIRE!

Speaking of scared, the shotguning a 16oz Surly technique seems to have additional merit. Once that can (or one of the subsequently drained ones) is empty you know you've only got so long before you're loopey enough to smack a tree, thus motivating you to get the lap(s) done with QUICKLY!