Twitter | Trail Conditions

[Pink Pony]

I believe it might be a good idea to have a TWITTER page with the Theo Trail conditions.

Sometimes you just want to see the trail condition DRY, WET, NO RIDE, LOG DOWN. Etc.

[guest_s]

I believe it might be a good idea to have a TWITTER page with the Theo Trail conditions.

Sometimes you just want to see the trail condition DRY, WET, NO RIDE, LOG DOWN. Etc.

www.mocatrails.org is a close as we get right now. Upper left corner.

Good idea though. I will be working on the upper left corner image to have a hover over feature with a bit more detail on why the condition is set to what it is. Right now you just click on the image and it gives you a list of what all the images mean.

Thanks!

[guest_s]

I looked into Twitter and it's pretty simple. So I decided to sign MOCA up and do trail updates through there.

I can update from my phone using text if I need to, but with my phone I have a full web browser anyway, but the idea is still cool. I think if people sign up for our page, they will get a phone text when updates are made.....is that how it works?

Check it out:

https://twitter.com/mocatrails

[gopherhockey]

I wonder... do people update all of the various conditions locations when they give updates, or just one. (my guess is just one) As such, how do people know where the most recent conditions are without having to check multiple locations.

What I'm getting at is the idea that one place to update and one place to check does have value. IMHO when we try have multiple ones the information becomes less valuable and people eventually stop using it.

[guest_s]

I wonder... do people update all of the various conditions locations when they give updates, or just one. (my guess is just one) As such, how do people know where the most recent conditions are without having to check multiple locations.

What I'm getting at is the idea that one place to update and one place to check does have value. IMHO when we try have multiple ones the information becomes less valuable and people eventually stop using it.

These conditions and the conditions on the MOCA website are only updated by MOCA....so no biggie. Many times I change the update by what I read in the MORC trail conditions from someone who was actaully at the trail. So yes......the MORC trail conditions are a great place for all riders to be able to update.....and keep us updated as well since we don't always have time to make it out to the trail and see for ourselves.

[Stonehenge]

Why not just post a phone booth at the trail head ( bat phone ).....then people can call as soon as they finish lap.

Ok...
-----------------------------------------
post the replies now..... for funny or money....


but a posted phone number to call in updates...some carry cell...

[biking_stickman]

but a posted phone number to call in updates...some carry cell...

...and to check the trail status (open/closed) via recorded message.

[widespot]

I just look back in my alley. If there is water standing there the trails are to wet/soft. If all the water is dried up I'm good to ride. Oddly, it's almost never wrong. :cool:

Twitter seems OK too.

[swen]

This seems like a great idea. When the post originally ran Twitter was not nearly as widelt used as it is now.

Here is my idea on how to work it as simple as possible. A MORC user name is established. From there you give that password out to trusted individuals at each trail. Then when someone posts you just prefix your message with BC: Leb: etc etc.

[gopherhockey]

Here is the key to trail conditons:

1. Updates are done in ONE place. Because *most* use the forums, a slightly modified post would be best, where there are drop-downs for general trail conditions etc.
2. General trail condition page can then update conditions for all trails based on the input given. (techie speak, a php page pulling mysql data)
3. Twitter is a good idea. It should be able to pull the data somehow. Should be able to RSS the updates as well.

Again, we really need to keep conditions in one area to keep them reliable and updated appropraitely. Blogs or one-offs, while nice, just mean conditions aren't getting to the masses as they should. More info is only better if its reliable and updated.

I can see it now... Theo gets 4" of rain and the forums say its closed, Twitter hasn't been updated so people assume its open, Facebook is spamming people because the account got hacked, some blog is updated but nobody cares about f#)($ing blogs anymore so they aren't checking there.... etc.

[swen]

I see your point. It is unfortunate that because of some peoples lack of common sense we can not explore other mediums to get a message out.
I would argue however that not all of the trails are updated every time it rains, that people with a poor mind set could justify riding with the excuse of "I know that every other trails was updated as closed, but Salem was not so I just rode there."

Other than trail conditions there could also be updates on group rides, trail work, cancelations etc.

[guest_s]

Well.....now we have it so hardly anyone likes it. This one place concept is not working. The old trail conditions where much better, even if you did have to do it in two places. It was more visual and cleaner. Someone could look at one page and look down the list and see all the conditions of all the trails without having to click on each one.

As far as riders using lack of trail conditions as an excuse to go ride a wet trail (or whatever). What do you do? These people (especially if they are in these forums) know better.....but are selfish and want to ride anyway.

[berrywise]

Well.....now we have it so hardly anyone likes it. This one place concept is not working. The old trail conditions where much better, even if you did have to do it in two places.

Granted it was easier to read but the simple fact of the matter was hardly anyone was updating it. You'd have trails that would go a week (heck some trails were like six months) without an update whereas the trail conditions threads were getting hammered.

[gopherhockey]

Well.....now we have it so hardly anyone likes it. This one place concept is not working.

Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean its not working. I think people are being really good about at least posting updates (for most trails). I have heard a lot of people still using it and very few complaints. Most understand the challenges we face and know its not where we want it to be exactly but it is way better than it was before.

If nobody steps up I'll probably make it a priority this winter. I'm increasing my PHP/mysql skills as we speak.

[soupboy]

How about having the header for MORC Mobile lead with trails conditions? Simply Trail Name followed by Open or Closed.

[Nickel]

Didn't it used to look similar to this?
http://joinomba.org/index.php?page=4

[berrywise]

Didn't it used to look similar to this?
http://joinomba.org/index.php?page=4

Pretty much looked like this

http://web.archive.org/web/20060811021843/www.morcmtb.org/forums/trail.php

:D

[Wheels]

Pretty much looked like this

http://web.archive.org/web/20060811021843/www.morcmtb.org/forums/trail.php

:D

This is the format I prefer ... just sayin' IMHO (please don't flame me or tell me to do some programming if I don't like the current system, I'm just sayin').

Both systems have their drawbacks (the thread needs to be updated, or the conditions icon need to be updated as above) but at least when I look at the above link - it's very obvious to me what the status of the trail currently is, and I don't have to dig for a concise answer.

[hops]

If we reverted to the old trail conditions page (which I am not advocating - I'm neutral), I would be willing to be the designated fool/trail lover responsible for assuring that the Leb icon always matched the current trail conditions.

[kabbie_cache]

I have a question.

Why is it so hard to check the forums for trail conditions ?

I see all the comments, why don't we _______ or no one does ________. To me it way to simple now. You go to the MORC forums, look at the trail conditions and decide to ride or not.

If the conditions are more than a couple days old, post up when you get back from the trail.

Let's keep it simple and keep it on MORC. We don't need tweeter or facebook to get trail conditions.

[swen]

I have a question.

Why is it so hard to check the forums for trail conditions ?

I see all the comments, why don't we _______ or no one does ________. To me it way to simple now. You go to the MORC forums, look at the trail conditions and decide to ride or not.

If the conditions are more than a couple days old, post up when you get back from the trail.

Let's keep it simple and keep it on MORC. We don't need tweeter or facebook to get trail conditions.

It's a new technology that appears to be here to stay.
You can set up a RSS feed to it so that it will automatically send a "tweet" when conditions are updated.
(I don't know how to set this up though, but if need be I could figure it out.)

other groups such as omba have been using it for a while.

I also think that it will allow the group to reach more potential members. How many people from age 15-23 are associated with morc in one way or another? I feel that I am the yougest person at most group rides I attend and I'm 26.
While some people may not use or shun sites such as facebook, myspace, and twitter, their is no denying their ability to reach a massive amount of people.

[Specialeded]

I think society has just become to damn lazy....But I am not going to get into this here.

The system only works if you use it.

Why I remember the days of driving to a trail head to find out if it's closed or to wet to ride....:eyeroll:


I agree with John.."Keep it in the family"... and keep trail conditions under one medium (MORC). It will really save confusion for the masses. This is not a full time job for anyone and let's not make it one (I can see the business cards now:

John Lundell
Non-Profit MORC Regional Twitter Lebanon Trail Conditions Updater Administrative Online Representative Scalawag)

[danomyte]

While I could see things to improve, I have no real issue with the way things work now. If someone was going to look into this more, maybe making the Trail conditions thread a *modified* poll that you could vote on more than once. A reply/response to this thread (poll) could update a page similar to the old trail conditions page and also Tweet the new conditions.

I have some php, mysql, and (other) bb mod skills and would be willing to help. Realistically though, I don't know when that would be...

[gopherhockey]

I did some looking. The toughest part is interfacing into vBulletin, but I found a tool that allows a person to add custom fields to a new thread. Problem is I don't think it allows for modifying the fileds with each new post or reply - I contacted the author to see how hard it would be to modify that part.

Once these additional fields are in the database it would be easy to rebuild the old trail conditions page so that it pulled and pushed information into the same fields as posting trail conditions would.

Enhancements like Twitter, CSS, a mobile page etc. can then be added once the basic functionality is there.

I'm trying not to spend a lot of time on it but if there is something already written that gets us 90% of the way there it could be easy to finish off the rest.

[Wheels]

I have a question.

Why is it so hard to check the forums for trail conditions ?

I see all the comments, why don't we _______ or no one does ________. To me it way to simple now. You go to the MORC forums, look at the trail conditions and decide to ride or not.

If the conditions are more than a couple days old, post up when you get back from the trail.

Let's keep it simple and keep it on MORC. We don't need tweeter or facebook to get trail conditions.

Here's the issue I'm raising, if you take a look at the latest entries for the[/URL] [URL="http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11512#post33333333"]Terrace Oaks trail conditions page (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11512#post33333333) you'll notice that there are 7 entries before you get to an entry that "appears" to say that the "The trail is open although there is rain moving in.", and it's from a Leb dirt boss - so that's the first somewhat authoritative entry (if you know that a dirt boss has say - I do, but noobs may not) - and that's two days old with other's piping-in with what appears to be valid info.

Many of the conditions pages are like this, banter and opinions on the top - but you have to dig most often to find the answer as to when it was last "authoritatively" stated about the open/close.

Now, if you're not logged in as a user, you don't land on the the last entry when you click the link from the Trail Conditions page, you get the first entry (which tells you to go to the last). Then you have to click again to get to the last post - and remember that the last post is not on the top, not the bottom - because everything is reversed when you're logged-in.

To answer the question of "Why is it so hard to check the forums for trail conditions ?" directly, I'm at the trail head of a closed trail last week, looking for a place to ride (all destinations at least 30 minutes away) I pull out my mobile browser and go to the MORC Trail conditions page.

Now I have to click each individual thread link, click again to go to the last entry for that forum page, then search for an authoritative answer. Then click back 3 pages to get back to the trail conditions page to start all over again on the next Trail Conditions forum page.

I'm not dissing the system outright, I'm just sharing why in my experience finding the information I needed was so difficult.

A Google maps link on the Trail Review page would have helped me a bit as well, better yet that link could be on the Trail Conditions landing page as well - and then you have one stop shopping - Trail is open, here are the directions - good info to know so I can get on trail and off my machine.

[dave t]

My $.02:
I agree with Jake. We've become pretty spoiled in the definition of "hard to get conditions".

If you are at one trail that's closed and you're able to be on the web looking for conditions on another trail but the conditions are old, maybe that is good enough. Call a friend and see if they know.

Most trails, it's up to you to decide if it's too wet anyway because there's no open/closed sign.

[Wheels]

My $.02:
Most trails, it's up to you to decide if it's too wet anyway because there's no open/closed sign.

I don't mean to be contrary, but I'd rather not drive 30+ miles to find out for myself.

This is the same issue whether I'm on a desktop or mobile.

That's the whole idea of having a trail conditions listing, it's not the "the trails feel tacky today" type trail condition - it's the "open or closed" info I'm looking for - not how "Sweet" things were yesterday. Currently they are mixed.

Maybe a better word would be Trail Status, and separate that information from the Conditions pages.

Look - I'm a longtime MORC/MOCA supporter, volunteer, I know the ropes. As someone who has stepped away, and now is acting more like your typical recreational rider - I'm finding the system of who/how/where in regards to Trail Conditions confusing and lacking in the right substance. Just tell me if it's open or not.

It's no wonder you guys are experiencing backlash from riders who poach - why would they check the forum if it's really up to them? Of course it's going to be dry enough in many riders on-the-spot evaluation after driving for up to an hour to get to the trail.

If you're going to be the authority, and be responsible for managing this on behalf of the land managers - it has to be clear, concise, consistent, from a clear authority, and presented in a manner that is easy to reach and easy to understand.

I feel many of those conditions are not being met with the current system.

[guest_s]

If the trail conditions where part of the UI friendly world I live in every day......it would be a huge fail and put back on the drawing board for redesign. That's all I have to say on this topic.

Twitter, and other technologies are part of our lives now. If we don't embrace these tools, we fall behind......just sayin'.

[Wheels]

I suggest something like this: (Directions is a link to Google Maps)

http://www.5gdm.com/moca/morc_tc_mockup.jpg

[ghueler]

Excellent topic and comments!

Does anyone know who posted the "conditions" on http://joinomba.org/index.php?page=4? Who do you think should determine if the trail is open or closed? Is there one or a group of designated "authoritative" people who can ride the trail daily or be aware of the weather and volunteer to post this?

I think the format proposed is great, just wondering who the authority would be.

Also wondering how many people ride these trails oblivious to MORC and its recommendations (Murphy today).

[gopherhockey]

I think the format proposed is great, just wondering who the authority would be.

Also wondering how many people ride these trails oblivious to MORC and its recommendations (Murphy today).

For Leb we typically get a few regulars posting up.

More "official" posts would be the responsibility of the Trail Steward and/or Dirt Bosses of each trail.

We encourage others to post up as well - people get busy and sometimes the DBs and TSs will not be able to give updates.

[gopherhockey]

I suggest something like this: (Directions is a link to Google Maps)



Its about like it used to be. I'm working with someone that might do a bit of coding for hire to get us close to where we need to me. Again, if it shows wet, that designation will be enabled in the trail conditions thread. (most likely via manditory drop-down field just above the Title when you post/reply)

I don't know if the extra links all need to be there, if they fit thats fine. They should point people at our trail reviews or wikis. (we have maps)

I want to pull in the first X words from the latest post in the trail conditions thread as well. Sometimes you need to see more than just "wet" or "dry". For that to work well we'd have to continue to keep those threads clean. I personally think its a lot better than it used to be. If I moderate every post someone made just because they added ".. and the ride was sweet" we'd end up with nobody wanting to post conditions.

[ghueler]

How many Trail Stewards and Dirt Bosses are there per trail?

[gopherhockey]

How many Trail Stewards and Dirt Bosses are there per trail?

Usually one Trail Steward. This is MORCs single point of contact with the land manager.

Dirt Bosses vary... can be as few as one, as many as 5-6 or more per trail.

If anyone wants to see some more information on our trail steward/dirt boss program we can start a separate thread. I think there is some wiki info on them as well.

[Trevize1138]

What about re-creating the "old" trail conditions page but only allowing access to each trail's respective trail steward or a trail boss assigned to keeping it up-to-date? Provide a link for each trail saying "Not up-to-date? Let us know!" that sends a PM to whoever's tasked with keeping that posting up-to-date.

That one person doesn't have to go to the trail every single day to personally inspect conditions. They can have other people telling them either directly or they can just scan the "detail" threads and use their best judgement on that.

[gopherhockey]

What about re-creating the "old" trail conditions page but only allowing access to each trail's respective trail steward or a trail boss assigned to keeping it up-to-date?

Not sure that would work in all cases. I like to get more people involved in the updates. I think he helps promote a sense of ownership of the trails when we see other people going out and checking/posting up conditions.

Some trails can be set like that if they want though. It would be based on forum userid or group.

[Trevize1138]

Not sure that would work. I like to get more people involved in the updates. I think he helps promote a sense of ownership of the trails when we see other people going out and checking/posting up conditions.

Some trails can be set like that if they want though. It would be based on forum userid or group.

Well, seems like you'll have to choose between an extra feeling of ownership vs. better clarity on trail conditions.

[gopherhockey]

Well, seems like you'll have to choose between an extra feeling of ownership vs. better clarity on trail conditions.

Not necessarily. Sometimes the people out checking the actual trail can give better updates than the trail steward sitting by his computer in his PJs.....

Reliability hasn't been a real issue so far. I think our issue is having more updates, not less.

Often I'm posting a general guess. Yea, it rained last night... .20" - assume the trail might be wet. Someone else actually gambles and goes there and sees its dry.... or verifies its wet. We even have people now driving by and walking into the trail to check things out. I don't want to put a stop to that.

Its not an exact science. We've had 3" rains where the trail was perfectly dry just hours later... and .03" rains that keep the trail closed for a full day. A lot of trail leaders take the weekend off or are not in town, so at that point we're guessing based on the weather.

If we do run into a reliability issue we can deal with it at that time. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone post up completely wrong information.

An informational link can be created on the conditions page that helps guide people to making good conditions posts.

[Trevize1138]

Not necessarily. Sometimes the people out checking the actual trail can give better updates than the trail steward sitting by his computer in his PJs.....

Reliability hasn't been a real issue so far. I think our issue is having more updates, not less.

Often I'm posting a general guess. Yea, it rained last night... .20" - assume the trail might be wet. Someone else actually gambles and goes there and sees its dry.... or verifies its wet. We even have people now driving by and walking into the trail to check things out. I don't want to put a stop to that.

Its not an exact science. We've had 3" rains where the trail was perfectly dry just hours later... and .03" rains that keep the trail closed for a full day. A lot of trail leaders take the weekend off or are not in town, so at that point we're guessing based on the weather.

If we do run into a reliability issue we can deal with it at that time. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone post up completely wrong information.

An informational link can be created on the conditions page that helps guide people to making good conditions posts.

Rather than speculate what's the harm in trying it?

[gopherhockey]

Rather than speculate what's the harm in trying it?

I'm not the one speculating.

If you want your trail locked that can be your option. Leb (when open) will be open to anyone willing to post a condition. I have quite a few years of seeing what works and doesn't work and that knowledge is telling me the more the better.

[ghueler]

An informational link can be created on the conditions page that helps guide people to making good conditions posts.[/quote]

Another great idea, even though it sounds like you haven't had a problem with inaccurate posts in this area.

[gopherhockey]

Here is a perfect example, posted by Matt McCann yesterday in the Leb conditions:



Just walked a section of the trail off Galaxie trailhead. Showers hit at around 2:30 today. The trail has numerous puddles and at best, is mushy. I'd rather trail ride, but best to seek the road ride option tonight. Leb needs to dry out more. Sorry for the buzz kill.


I can't think of a reason why we'd want to discourage this kind of assistance.

[Trevize1138]

Here is a perfect example, posted by Matt McCann yesterday in the Leb conditions:



I can't think of a reason why we'd want to discourage this kind of assistance.

I never said to get rid of anything. You got rid of the old system which, yes, involved updating in two spots, but it actualy did involve more info vs. less.

I suggested keeping the conditions threads as-is but in addition bring back the old conditions page but with tighter controls just on that page.

[gopherhockey]

I suggested keeping the conditions threads as-is but in addition bring back the old conditions page but with tighter controls just on that page.

The old conditions page (or new) will function off the forums for updates. If you click to update, it will take you to the new post page - the only difference is that you'll get a field or two extra that are required to get the conditions to update. No reason to have two separate methods to update the same data.

Its good discussion to have though, lots of good ideas floating around. I hope people understand it will take time to impelment anything - we might just have to use what we have for the rest of this year.

[Trevize1138]

The old conditions page (or new) will function off the forums for updates. If you click to update, it will take you to the new post page - the only difference is that you'll get a field or two extra that are required to get the conditions to update. No reason to have two separate methods to update the same data.

Perfect! :) Must have missed that this was the plan somehow.

[gopherhockey]

Just an update to those interested.

I decided to get someone to help fix the trail conditions page up. Its going to require some custom coding and will cost a little bit.

For those who feel the trail conditions are valuable and wish to donate toward the project, please use the donate area up in the navbar. Your donation will help get this trail conditions page back online as soon as possible and keep me from paying out of my own pocket.

The initial release may not have twitter capabilities, but that is being worked on now as well.

The morc twitter account is here:

http://twitter.com/morcmtb