An exit route

[Drexler]

I haven't visit all the trail that Mn has to offer but I couldn't help to notice that Theo doesn't have an exit route that is separate from the enter route. I ask this because many times now, I found myself entering the trail at a cautious speed while another biker is exiting the trail full speed. Most of the time I has able to evade the other biker until yesterday evening when another biker exiting the trail full speed collided with me causing significant damage to my right forearm and right leg. Now that I think about it I don't think that he even try to avoid me. I was the only one who made an effort to avoid the collision. I am still upset about it since I just recuperated from a previous injury and now I have to deal with a busted arm, all this because of the carelessness of some idiot out there. Have you guys considered creating an exit route? Am I the only one out there that has had encounters like the one I just described?

[Slimpee]

I can see what you're talking about but i've never had an issue with this. When I enter the trailhead I typically move over and listen for riders finishing.

[Drexler]

I don't think I was being careless to be honest with you. It happened so quickly mainly because how fast the other biker was exiting the trail.

[smklugherz]

Franz, sorry to hear that you got busted up. Two way trails can be dangerous at busy places like Theo. I spend most of my time BC, where it is essentially all two way trails, and have been taken out a couple times this year. I understand why you are upset...it hurts!

Two things I would like to respond to. First, I highly doubt the other person did nothing to avoid you. He/she probably didn't have time to react, or naturally, just locked up the breaks. When you get in to a ride, it is easy to forget to take it slow around two way blind, corners, ridges, etc. It is also easy to get going faster than your line of sight allows. This is particularly true when the object we have to plan for is moving toward us, since as bikers, we are usually guaging stopping distance against a stationary object...."can I stop before I hit that tree."

Second, we need to remember, that when two people colide head on, usually, both people are at fault to some extent, even if one was going slow. On a two way trail, riders need to be ready for somebody who is not paying attention coming around a corner, over a jump, etc. We need to be aware of the signs a biker is coming, you can usually hear them, or see flashes through the woods. When in doubt, stay close to the side of the trail so you can move off.

The Theo trail crew is a good group, I am sure if they see a problem pattern it will be addressed. Remember, these things get fixed faster when more help out at trailwork. Further, a person at trailwork lobbying for a new peice of trail carries much more weight than a post on the forum.

Have fun riding out there. Stay safe.

[PJJ]

MTC=> I haven't been hit yet but have had a couple of close calls. How about at least a sign at the last little hill before you get to the trailhead... some reminder to slow down!!!! (Also my two cents) Maybe this is a good time to remind wanna-be-racers that this is a not a race track and others use the trails for more social rides.

[Drexler]

Thank you for your empathy Steve. I know things are not perfect or 100% safe for everyone especially when we add the human element into the equation. I appreciate your input and yes, you are right active advocacy is the solution when we want to see change.

[Slimpee]

I'm sure Shad has or will read this.

I consider myself part of the "Theo Crew" and I do think a sign would be nice. Perhaps we can work something out.

If we get a lot of complaints about the way it's setup i'm sure the powers that be will study the problem more closely.

Have others felt that the "staging" area is a problem?

[guest_s]

Sorry to hear about your incident. It is unfortunate when riders are being irresponsible and something like this has to happen. It is a two way trail and the rider going down should have been more careful.

This doesn't go for just two way trail. Keep in mind that Theo, and many other MORC trails, are multi-use trails. Mountain bikers must yield to other users (runners, hikers, dirt rollerbladers, or whoever). The general guideline in mountain biking for two-way trail is the downhill rider yields to the climbing rider.

As for a separate exit trail, that will be discussed among the MOCA board. The Luce Line will be going in and when it does, that section of trail will be altered in some way.

[Kingbozo]

FWIW, the uphill rider should have the right of way.

[Drexler]

That is what I thought. Anything you can come up with that would make that particular section safer I will greatly appreciate it. Please let me know if you need the extra hands to help with this. I don't know much about trail maintenance but I think this would be a good opportunity to learn from all of you that so kindly maintain the trails around the state.

[smklugherz]

That is what I thought. Anything you can come up with that would make that particular section safer I will greatly appreciate it. Please let me know if you need the extra hands to help with this. I don't know much about trail maintenance but I think this would be a good opportunity to learn from all of you that so kindly maintain the trails around the state.

Everyone is welcome at trailwork. No skills, or tools necessary! The Dirt Bosses will teach you everything you need to know. Check the boards for the trails you like. Most have sessions on the same day every week. You are free to come to as many or as few as you like and stay for as long or as short as you like (I think they are usually 2-3 hrs long max).

Trailwork is the best way to meet other riders and make new friends. Even better than the group rides. Plus, there is some satisfaction knowing that it is now, "your trail."

[Slimpee]

That is what I thought. Anything you can come up with that would make that particular section safer I will greatly appreciate it. Please let me know if you need the extra hands to help with this. I don't know much about trail maintenance but I think this would be a good opportunity to learn from all of you that so kindly maintain the trails around the state.

You're always welcome! Every Wed. (unless otherwise posted) at 5 PM in the Par 3 lot (just don't park there w/out a permit). If you can't make it at 5 just show up when you can (I usually roll in about 6:30)...

[Pain Cave Spelunker]

I agree. The trail is just too narrow to avoid people. I don’t know how hard it would be widen it a bit or create a second exit trail but really I’d like to see that effort put into maintenance and cool new features rather then “safety.” :evil:

[THUMP!]

There is already a spot that almost looks like an exit right before returning to the trailhead...doesn't seem like it would take much to make an official exit.
Lots of people stop at the end of the loop to take a breath before hitting it again or exiting to the gravel road but I do see quite a few others that seem to pound pedals all the way out to the parkway(including thru the trail entrance).
If nothing else a small stop sign when the loop comes back to the trailhead should take off enough speed that even if there is 2 way traffic on the exit a collision should be avoidable. This might also help to keep people stopped at the trailhead from getting mowed down by returning riders. Of course I realize that people shouldn't be congregating right in the middle of the trail but it definitely happens.

[forum116]

One good simple and easier solution would be to add a log pile on the end of the trail to warn people to slow down and kind of force the hand a little. Granted some people do not care for log piles but it would be more noticable than a stop or any sign as it will be on the trail and not off to the side.

[smklugherz]

One good simple and easier solution would be to add a log pile on the end of the trail to warn people to slow down and kind of force the hand a little. Granted some people do not care for log piles but it would be more noticable than a stop or any sign as it will be on the trail and not off to the side.

Log piles everywhere!!!!:banana::banana::banana::banana:

[forum116]

Log piles everywhere!!!!:banana::banana::banana::banana:

you find me the railroad ties and i will re-create mammoth for you. I miss that log pile :(

[Shorty]

Granted some people do not care for log piles but it would be more noticable than a stop or any sign as it will be on the trail and not off to the side.

A sign won't help if the issue is that people are riding too fast through an area. The odds of them looking at the sign are minimal.

The solution would be a reroute, or like Nick said, there should be something in the trail.

[smklugherz]

The solution would be a reroute, or like Nick said, there should be something in the trail.

Like I said....

Log piles everywhere!!!!:banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Gingerdawg]

New Smilie?

[soupboy]

FWIW, the uphill rider should have the right of way.

THIS^

Also, that "staging area" should be eliminated. If people want to congregate before doing a loop the trail should dump out post tabletop onto the double track and then people can get back on using the current entrance.

Sorry to the OP got injured by someone it would appear was going way too fast and either didn't know it was two way or didn't care to use common sense.

It is strange that basically the balance of the Theo Trail is 1-way save this tiny stretch.

[charles3000]

Just like when your driving a car on the road, we need to get people to ride on the right hand side of the trail.

[Rocky Mountain]

Easy solution, buy a BELL. This is the best PR move a biker can make and will allow you as biker to control the situation as much as possible. Now people are going to whine that bells are annoying,blah,blah,blah, but so are the TROLLS found on this website and we manage to put up with them on an hourly basis.

Used to have one when I rode the Riverbottoms to stay safe with all the dog walkers, runners, and other vermits on the trail. This trail had alot of blind corners and with no safe exit routes.

[Metal Head]

As far as I can recall, that spot is the only two-way trail at Theo, and it's not very long. I make a mental note every time I enter the trail to be wary of other riders entering. There is plenty of space to slow down prior to hitting the trail exit, so there's no excuse not to. In fact, the next time I'm entering, I might just take up the entire trail on purpose if i see a turd racing away toward the exit. Yessir, you're gonna wish I was a tree because trees don't yield swinging U-Locks and unreleased aggression.:angry:

Well, maybe not, but don't bet on it.:cool:

I just don't want to see stupidity win on this one; is it really asking too much to use common sense? I'd rather see trail work hours where they belong: maintaining and improving the trail, not compensating for idiots!

~scott

[gopherhockey]

I just don't want to see stupidity win on this one; is it really asking too much to use common sense?

Its a good question. There are many mountain bikers who have a sense of entitlement and I don't think it even occurs to them that there are other factors than themselves out there.

[stuntjunkie]

I'm sure Shad has or will read this.

I consider myself part of the "Theo Crew" and I do think a sign would be nice. Perhaps we can work something out.

If we get a lot of complaints about the way it's setup i'm sure the powers that be will study the problem more closely.

Have others felt that the "staging" area is a problem?

I have actually had a similar problem, i was in the stage getting ready as a biker exited the trail, as he rode past a felt a good thud from teh back of my bike. The other group that was riding with me asked."did he just kick your bike?" So yes even forceful acts of aggresssion have been displayed in this area that can, at times get busy. The other biker clearly had enough room to exit the staging area and onto the fire road but insisted on kicking my bike to make a point.

[Metal Head]

I have actually had a similar problem, i was in the stage getting ready as a biker exited the trail, as he rode past a felt a good thud from teh back of my bike. The other group that was riding with me asked."did he just kick your bike?" So yes even forceful acts of aggresssion have been displayed in this area that can, at times get busy. The other biker clearly had enough room to exit the staging area and onto the fire road but insisted on kicking my bike to make a point.

I had a quick question: is this `staging area' you mention on the fire road or actually the open area in the woods?

The reason I ask is I don't think people should congregate in the open area in the woods because it blocks the way for other riders who want to continue riding without navigating through an unpredictable clusterf*ck of individuals playing grab-ass and what-not. Yes, that's a little harsh, but there is the fire road a stone's throw away where oxygen-deprived, high-speed, delirious bikers are not trying to make their way.

And I am NOT sticking up for the person who was forward enough to kick your tire... that I wouldn't expect going there. If that tire kicker is reading this...

[Rocky Mountain]

More trails, more people, more complaints.

The open area at the N. Sides ent/exit was most likely intended for a resting area between laps and now with rider increase the metro trails are busier. (There is even a log to sit on for those really tired.) This is reality so relax, what's with all the testosterone induced outlashes.


I had a quick question: is this `staging area' you mention on the fire road or actually the open area in the woods?

The reason I ask is I don't think people should congregate in the open area in the woods because it blocks the way for other riders who want to continue riding without navigating through an unpredictable clusterf*ck of individuals playing grab-ass and what-not.

.

[Drexler]

Everything comes down to creating an exit route that eventually would redirect traffic to the gravel road decongesting (if that is an actual word) the congregating area in question.