State Forest Trails

[Tim Wegner]

Hi everyone
I am posting a group of questions that I would like answers to so I can report back to the power people at MN Department of Trails and Waterways. Note these questions pertain ONLY to State Forests not state Parks
1. do you have a favorite trail you like to ride in MN State Forests?

2. in which state forest is this trail located?

3. what do you like about this trail?

4. if you could choose 1 or 2 state forests in which to build trails which ones would you choose? and of course why?

5. which user groups would you be willing to share this trail with? hikers, trail runners, bird watchers, equestrians. list all that apply.

Thanks, this will help me answer some questions that came up during a presentation I did today.

Tim Wegner

[Shorty]

1. do you have a favorite trail you like to ride in MN State Forests?

Trails off of Pilager Forest Road (off 210)

2. in which state forest is this trail located?

Pillsbury State Forest

3. what do you like about this trail?

The primitive setting, it isn't soaking wet and/or covered in grass like the other state forest trails I've tried, and the feeling that you are really out in the north woods (as compared to metro trails).

Also, the area isn't designed so that it is completely packed with trails. The sheer size of the area allows for a trail that isn't always doubling back on itself, so it feels like you're actually going somewhere. The sense of exploration is much higher than most metro trails.

4. if you could choose 1 or 2 state forests in which to build trails which ones would you choose? and of course why?

Pillsbury and Rum River because of their proximity to the cities and/or popular vacation areas.

5. which user groups would you be willing to share this trail with? hikers, trail runners, bird watchers, equestrians. list all that apply.

Hikers, trail runners.

Bird watchers would be alright, but often there is a bit of a clash of cultures there. I would very much prefer not to share the trail with equestrians.


Thanks for your hard work Tim!!

Getting singletrack (that's been designed with mountain bikers in mind) built on state forest lands would be HUGE for Minnesota mountain biking!! We are always complaining that we don't have that great of terrain for mtb trails in MN, and this would be a big step in the right direction to correcting that myth.

[smklugherz]

1. do you have a favorite trail you like to ride in MN State Forests?

None. I am under the impression that there is very little quality legal single track in our state forests and parks. I have looked at the DRN web site and it is very vague on if bikes are allowed. Further, what the state parks recreation grid calls mountain bike trails is not a mountain bike trail. At a minimum, will you explain to them that cross country ski trails are not mountain bike trails.

2. in which state forest is this trail located?

None.

3. what do you like about this trail?

4. if you could choose 1 or 2 state forests in which to build trails which ones would you choose? and of course why?

Afton State Forest and anything from just south of duluth to the candian border.

5. which user groups would you be willing to share this trail with? hikers, trail runners, bird watchers, equestrians. list all that apply.

hikers and trail runners because these users seem to prefer 12-18" wide tred.

This is not listed, but I do not want to share with off-road vehicles. Their trails are usually wider than a mtb trail should be and they tend to rip up the trail and make it all loose.

Like said above, opening up single track in the state forests would be HUGE! I think the biggest obstacle with the DNR is that they do not understand what a mtb trail should be. They look at all the mown grass cross country ski trails and see that nobody uses it and think that there is no need.

Also getting the Superior Hiking Trail opened up. The trail association says no bikes, but I do not know if they can say that on the portions that go through state forest.

[Shorty]

...

At a minimum, will you explain to them that cross country ski trails are not mountain bike trails.

....

hikers and trail runners because these users seem to prefer 12-18" wide tred.

This is not listed, but I do not want to share with off-road vehicles.

Like said above, opening up single track in the state forests would be HUGE! I think the biggest obstacle with the DNR is that they do not understand what a mtb trail should be. They look at all the mown grass cross country ski trails and see that nobody uses it and think that there is no need..

Ditto on all of the above!! Good points Steve.


Afton State Forest and anything from just south of duluth to the candian border.

Afton is a State Park, not State Forest.

Here is a link to a map showing all the State Forests: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_forests/map.html


Also getting the Superior Hiking Trail opened up. The trail association says no bikes, but I do not know if they can say that on the portions that go through state forest.

I think trying to open the SHT to bikes is too big a battle... that energy would be better spent on other projects in my opinion.

[TrailPatrol]

1. do you have a favorite trail you like to ride in MN State Forests?
Not counting where I work, Birch Lakes Singletrack

2. in which state forest is this trail located?
Birch Lakes State Forest north of Melrose

3. what do you like about this trail?
Nice singletrack, designed and built by Bob Mueller, maintained (sporadically) by the Backcountry Trail Patrol

4. if you could choose 1 or 2 state forests in which to build trails which ones would you choose? and of course why?
Pat Boyle or Finland State Forests off the North Shore-Scenic Arrowhead backcountry.

5. which user groups would you be willing to share this trail with? hikers, trail runners, bird watchers, equestrians. list all that apply.
Any non-motorized users except equestrians.

Ride safe,
Hans Erdman, WEMT
Executive Director
Backcountry Trail Patrol Association. Inc.
www.trailpatrol.org (http://www.trailpatrol.org)

[TrailPatrol]

Like said above, opening up single track in the state forests would be HUGE! I think the biggest obstacle with the DNR is that they do not understand what a mtb trail should be. They look at all the mown grass cross country ski trails and see that nobody uses it and think that there is no need.

Also getting the Superior Hiking Trail opened up. The trail association says no bikes, but I do not know if they can say that on the portions that go through state forest.

Hey, hey, hey! I am part of the DNR, I work in a state forest recreation area and I most definitely know what a mountain bike trail is, and I am not alone. Don't generalize!

The SHT was designed and built by and for hikers. They put years of work and effort into the trail; secured private land easements and public land trail corridors. Every year some riders start drooling over the Superior HIKING Trail. Leave it be. The agreements the SHTA has with the DNR and USFS state plainly that it shall remain a hiking trail. There are plenty of opportunities just waiting to be tapped along the North Shore, such as the Sugarbush Trails above Lutsen. Trying to make the SHT a bike trail would be a waste of time and would just further alienate hikers against us.

Ride safe,
Hans

[hockeynut]

1. do you have a favorite trail you like to ride in MN State Forests?

Unfortunately I haven't ridden one. So I'll skip questions 2 and 3. I have ridden in the Chippewa National Forest but that doesn't count.

2. in which state forest is this trail located? n/a
3. what do you like about this trail? n/a

4. if you could choose 1 or 2 state forests in which to build trails which ones would you choose? and of course why?

More developed and official trails in the Richard J. Dorer Hardwood. The topography should allow quite a bit of elevation change and the terrain could be a bit rocky. I know that one or two of the units in the forest currently have bike trails, perhaps if more people rode them they would get the publicity and ridership needed to get more trails/get more riders to ride them and so on. The proximity to the population centers of the cities and Rochester (and La Crosse) should help maybe too with trail maintenance etc.

5. which user groups would you be willing to share this trail with? hikers, trail runners, bird watchers, equestrians. list all that apply.

Depending on the nature of the trail I'd be willing to share with any and all users who helped with trail maintenance/fees/etc.

If the trail was especially gnarly/lots of blind spots I would probably prefer to not share it with anyone just to keep collisions and wound up horses to a minimum.

[smklugherz]

Hey, hey, hey! I am part of the DNR, I work in a state forest recreation area and I most definitely know what a mountain bike trail is, and I am not alone. Don't generalize!

I didn't mean to offend. I know that many people in the DNR are avid outdoor enthusiasts (duh!) that know what a mountain bike trail is. But my point still stands, somewhere between the people that know and the people who create the communication with customers (or at least who maintains the web site and prints the maps) the defnition gets lost. As a result, people like me have driven an hour or two to a state park that said it had mtb trails and ended up riding on 12 foot wide xc trails. Like I noted, the DNR needs to make the distinction, and if it has this type of trail it needs to publisize it better. I mean biking isn't even listed as a recreational activity on the DNR web site (http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/index.html). If you go to outdoors->trails, it is briefly covered but still suffers from the lack of specificity about the trail type.

Now, if I could be confident that when Gooseberry's map says it has 8 miles of mtb trails that it is 8 miles of BC/Leb/Murphy style single track (not xc ski trail, not 4 foot wide grass trails) I would be camping up there every weekend.


As a tax payer, camper, hiker and general user of the state parks, I am always impressed by the quality of our state parks/forests As a biker, however, I feel underserved.

Oh, and I know that the superior hiking trail will never be opened to bikers, but if a bike trail like that could be built from the twin ports to canada, WOW! It would be MN's Maah Daah Hey. A man can dream.

[kikinik]

but if a bike trail like that could be built from the twin ports to canada, WOW! It would be MN's Maah Daah Hey.


Hey its not nice to tease.

This would be an incredible trail that would draw people from everywhere.
Im guessing maintenance would be a struggle.
But negatives aside.

Holy ****.

[Shorty]

Bump!

[I'm guessing] this is a great opportunity to speak up if you've ever ridden on State Forest land and wanted better trails!


Tim,
Would it be beneficial to know how many MORC forum readers live and/or regularly vacation in/near a Minnesota State Forest and are disappointed with the lack of high quality (or moderate quality) riding opportunities?

I figure the number of replies in this thread is representative of the mtb opportunities provided within the State Forests. This is a forum full of mtb enthusiasts, yet hardly any feedback... at this point, two replies to the favorite trail question and one of those is from a DNR employee.

Chengwatana and St. Croix State Forests could be good options to look at too.

[ryno lite]

I can't even reply because I have never felt the need to mtn bike in a MN state forest because there is nothing to ride. Better to hit WI if I want to camp and ride for a weekend. We have nothing like Levis or CAMBA in MN. We need it! I know it is coming and I can't wait!

[TrailPatrol]

I can't even reply because I have never felt the need to mtn bike in a MN state forest because there is nothing to ride. Better to hit WI if I want to camp and ride for a weekend. We have nothing like Levis or CAMBA in MN. We need it! I know it is coming and I can't wait!

Go up to Birch Lakes State Forest (1/2 hour west of St. Cloud on I-94, to Melrose, then north about 11 miles.) and check out what can be done on a state forest. Bob Mueller, who founded the BLAST and was the state IMBA rep between Gary Sjoquist and Tim Wegner, (and also designed and helped build Milaca, Monticello/Manitou and Hillside) worked with Trails and Forestry to create some beautiful singletrack in Minnesota's 2nd smallest state forest. There is a rustic campground, beach, and hiking/ski trails as well. It needs some TLC and we haven't gotten up there in a couple years to do so, (It is on the "to-do" list for July.) but it is still a great MTB-specific trail!

Ride safe,
Hans

Backcountry Trail Patrol
www.trailpatrol.org (http://www.trailpatrol.org)

[TrailPatrol]

... at this point, two replies to the favorite trail question and one of those is from a DNR employee.

I was a mountain biker and a NMBP patroller before I became a DNR employee. MTB since '93!:cool: DNR since 2003.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

Backcountry Trail Patrol
www.trailpatrol.org (http://www.trailpatrol.org/)<!-- / message -->