Parking @ Leb

[fasterfoster]

Please be respectful when parking in the lot.

As I left tonight (around 6:45) cars and trucks were parked in a lot of areas other than the regular parking spots. There were vehicles parked around the outside of the parking area, making it difficult to get around. Worse yet were the vehicles parked past what is supposed to be the last spot (closest to the entrance on Johnny Cake Ridge Road).

I know mountain bikers are not the only ones using the lot, but most of the offending vehicles were sporting bike racks.

If the lot is full, use an alternate area.

THANK YOU!

[ryno lite]

Please be respectful when parking in the lot.

As I left tonight (around 6:45) cars and trucks were parked in a lot of areas other than the regular parking spots. There were vehicles parked around the outside of the parking area, making it difficult to get around. Worse yet were the vehicles parked past what is supposed to be the last spot (closest to the entrance on Johnny Cake Ridge Road).

I know mountain bikers are not the only ones using the lot, but most of the offending vehicles were sporting bike racks.

If the lot is full, use an alternate area.

THANK YOU!

Parking sure can be a pain on nice nights at Lebanon. While it may be a pain, the parks police will let people park on the outside of the lot. They've told us that they won't ticket people unless they park on the grass. They let us use the outside of the lot if we stay on the gravel. That said, stay off the grass and don't park in such a way that you block the traffic in the lot.

[dave t]

Another possible option is park and enter on the Galaxie side. We have never had problems parking there for trailwork.
Not even afterwards.;)

If parking on the busy street or in front of somebody's house bugs you, there is a culdesac (? 1/4mile south) where you can park off the main road but still clear of anyone's mailbox or driveway.

[gopherhockey]

Part of the parking problem is that there are kids soccor games going on in the CITY park to the north. They fill up the lot while not even using the park it belongs too... and they do have an option to park just north of where they play. It would be nice if we could get them to try not parking there as it would free up a lot of spaces for people who actually use the trails.

Ryan covered the optional parking thing. There is no way we'd all fit if we parked in regular spots... so park around the outside but leave space for others and be considerate.

I can't release official word yet, but lets just say that 2009 will bring some changes to the parking situation that you will all LOVE... lets leave it at that, for now... :D

[Paul Swenson]

I can't release official word yet, but lets just say that 2009 will bring some changes to the parking situation that you will all LOVE... lets leave it at that, for now... :D

Does it include the addition of water?

[gopherhockey]

Does it include the addition of water?

Unofficially yes, and even more...

[destrago]

I can't release official word yet, but lets just say that 2009 will bring some changes to the parking situation that you will all LOVE... lets leave it at that, for now... :D

Complimentary Valet parking for MORC members?

[gopherhockey]

Complimentary Valet parking for MORC members?

Ok, maybe not quite that far.. but hey, you never know what we could do once the new facilities are in place. :p

[Ish]

Part of the parking problem is that there are kids soccor games going on in the CITY park to the north. They fill up the lot while not even using the park it belongs too... and they do have an option to park just north of where they play. It would be nice if we could get them to try not parking there as it would free up a lot of spaces for people who actually use the trails.


Here is the "offending" organization. http://www.eaasports.org/

Would it be possible to have Dakota County contact them and ask them to e-mail their participants?

[Tex]

Complimentary Valet parking for MORC members?

Sure, just give me the keys to your car as you pull in I'll help you park it :crazy2:. I'll even wear a little vest and look "official".

[ibismojo2001]

[quote=Crash;282872]Here is the "offending" organization. http://www.eaasports.org/

Sounds like you "know" the organization...:D

[Ish]

Sounds like you "know" the organization...:D

But my kids don't play summer soccer or I would tell the other mini-van drivin' moms where to park :etard:

[smklugherz]

Here is the "offending" organization. http://www.eaasports.org/

Would it be possible to have Dakota County contact them and ask them to e-mail their participants?

Let's not get too worked up about these people using the lot (after all, it is not "our" lot) and given the choice of kids soccer vs mtb bikes, the park board is going to go with the kids.

There is a school and a church down the road on McAndrews that in the evening, probably are just fine to park in.

[ibismojo2001]

Let's not get too worked up about these people using the lot (after all, it is not "our" lot) and given the choice of kids soccer vs mtb bikes, the park board is going to go with the kids.

There is a school and a church down the road on McAndrews that in the evening, probably are just fine to park in.

Riding from home is nice too.:etard:

[gopherhockey]

Let's not get too worked up about these people using the lot (after all, it is not "our" lot) and given the choice of kids soccer vs mtb bikes, the park board is going to go with the kids.

There is a school and a church down the road on McAndrews that in the evening, probably are just fine to park in.

One note, however. These people are using a city park, but parking in a county lot. They are not even using the trails that the lot was intended for.

While I agree not to get worked up, it is definitely something I think they could avoid by parking elsewhere. It is Dakota County's lot, not the City's lot....

They also have alternative parking options that get them just as close to the field. Users of the actual Leb trails (hikers, trail runners, bikers etc.) should really have dibs on the spots in a perfect world. I know we're not in a perfect world.

[smklugherz]

One note, however. These people are using a city park, but parking in a county lot.....
Lets not forget, that our own guide to the River Bottoms recomends parking at Indian Mounds Elementary School. Now, I know that lot has nothing to do with the Wild Life Refuge.

I think most people don't know/realize the difference. If the parks are close together (I'm not sure where the soccer fields are) they might even think they are part of the same complex. "I'm going to a park. Hey look a parking lot in a park near where I want to be...."

That being the case, I think even trying to "educate" them politely may not be the best to do. If I was choosing the battles MORC would fight, this would definitely not be one of them.

At least they are not skidding on the trail..

[gopherhockey]

That being the case, I think even trying to "educate" them politely may not be the best to do. If I was choosing the battles MORC would fight, this would definitely not be one of them.

At least they are not skidding on the trail..

I quite agree. If we did anything it would be more of a personal discussion on what might benefit both groups. I'm sure they feel disgusted with us taking up all the spots and some probably don't realize there are other parking locations. MORC officially is not going to spin cycles on this.. especially with a permanent solution coming in the near future.

I often wonder why anyone would want their kid exposed to a bunch of mountain bikers changing in the lot... :crazy2:

[Ish]

Good points Steve. Especially since it sounds like Dakota Co is working on a l-term solution to the parking situation for users of the park.

edit: *note to self* must learn to type faster....

[dave t]

I still say the Galaxie side is a good alternative. Only the coolest of the cool use it now. :D

OK, maybe just dorky locals but at least you won't get on "the list" for displaying your junk to little kids in a parking lot.

The culdesac just to the south, at the Eagan border is relatively secluded with only a few houses and all of them a ways in from the intersection w/ Galaxie.

[bootsiebee]

People could probably also park in Brittany Estates (my childhood stomping grounds). It's about 200 yards past the leb parking lot on the left.

[Paul Swenson]

People could probably also park in Brittany Estates (my childhood stomping grounds). It's about a quarter mile past the leb parking lot on the left.

If you don't mind having your car attacked by an umbrella wielding psycho...Oh wait a minute different Brittany.

[manual63]

You have a bicycle......park somewhere else and ride to the trailhead......:banghead:

[Ish]

You have a bicycle......park somewhere else and ride to the trailhead......:banghead:


For some (including me), part of the experience is chillin' in the parking lot with a post ride beverge with your hommies.

[Paul Swenson]

My Mountain biking carbon foot print is HUGE!

[fasterfoster]

One note, however. These people are using a city park, but parking in a county lot. They are not even using the trails that the lot was intended for.

While I agree not to get worked up, it is definitely something I think they could avoid by parking elsewhere. It is Dakota County's lot, not the City's lot....

They also have alternative parking options that get them just as close to the field. Users of the actual Leb trails (hikers, trail runners, bikers etc.) should really have dibs on the spots in a perfect world. I know we're not in a perfect world.
I think some of you missed my original post. I stated:
"I know mountain bikers are not the only ones using the lot, but most of the offending vehicles were sporting bike racks."

If the lot is full, regardless of who is parked there, EVERYONE must park somewhere else.

[gopherhockey]

I think some of you missed my original post. I stated:
"I know mountain bikers are not the only ones using the lot, but most of the offending vehicles were sporting bike racks."

If the lot is full, regardless of who is parked there, EVERYONE must park somewhere else.

I wasn't specifically replying to you, but I don't know that i understand your point.

If the inner parking area is full, we CAN use the outer area to park, as long as we aren't on the grass or blocking sidewalks or gate entrances etc. They removed the "no parking" signs years ago from the outer areas.

If the inner and outer area are full, it is obvious you should not just park where people drive as it would block the entire lot.

People only need to park elsewhere when all the internal and outer spaces are taken up. This should be fairly clear to everyone already - Ive' been in the lot hundreds of times when it was packed and never seen a problem.

Once again, parking wouldn't be as much of a problem for anyone if the only people parking there were actually using the park it was intended for.. but thats a separate conversation.

[Neckroll]

Is it okay to park on the shoulder of Johnny Cake Ridge Road? There are not any no parking signs, and in MPLS that would generally mean it would be okay, but the 'burbs tend to have their own parking rules that they assume everyone should just inherently know about. I've done so twice in the past when the lot was full and didn't get ticketed or towed, but that may have been dumb luck.

[bigwheel]

Is it okay to park on the shoulder of Johnny Cake Ridge Road? There are not any no parking signs, and in MPLS that would generally mean it would be okay, but the 'burbs tend to have their own parking rules that they assume everyone should just inherently know about. I've done so twice in the past when the lot was full and didn't get ticketed or towed, but that may have been dumb luck.

I wouldn't do it. Even if it is legal,it seems like a bad place to park. I'd head over to Covington (just north of Leb), and park back in the neighborhood.

[Shumlaw]

I get out to Lebabnon only on occassion, however, knowing its usually at busy times, where is the alternative parking area? Thanks for any help!

[smklugherz]

...where is the alternative parking area?

Is there an offical Dakota County recomendation on where to park if the lot is full? Perhaps we could put that on the trail guide. All part of being good park citizens.

Even with the planned parking improvements (I do not actually know what the plans are, so this is a guess), we could still overflow the parking lot at this popular trail.

[dave t]

I will let John feed out details but the proposal or plan will have "our" lot much larger and also much less attractive to the soccer crowd. I would expect overflow to be rare.

[smklugherz]

I will let John feed out details but the proposal or plan will have "our" lot much larger and also much less attractive to the soccer crowd. I would expect overflow to be rare.

I was just wondering, will a larger lot mean more bikers? I can't tell you how many times I have driven past a full leb lot and carried right on to Murphy (not a comment on the quality of the trail, it is just twice as far from my house). The lot size always seemed to me to limit the already high trail use. Just wondering if we might be trading one problem for another?

Not that I am against the improvements...smarter, move involved people than I have worked on this. The hard working leb crew has never let me down in the past.

[Ish]

The lot size always seemed to me to limit the already high trail use. Just wondering if we might be trading one problem for another?.

In my experience, most people just found alternative places to park (e.g. the tennis courts north of the lot).

Also, with additional milage coming to the trail this year and next, that should help spread things out a little.

[destrago]

I was just wondering, will a larger lot mean more bikers? I can't tell you how many times I have driven past a full leb lot and carried right on to Murphy (not a comment on the quality of the trail, it is just twice as far from my house). The lot size always seemed to me to limit the already high trail use. Just wondering if we might be trading one problem for another?

Not that I am against the improvements...smarter, move involved people than I have worked on this. The hard working leb crew has never let me down in the past.

At the most congested of times when the lot is CHOCK full, I maybe end up passing or getting passed by 5 or 6 other riders. I'll see groups stopped at the normal spots to stop (X entrance, XX branch, camelback) but those areas are easy to navigate around others. Yeah, leb is heavily used, but I've NEVER had that interfere with my ability to ride there. Even if we doulbed the parking capacity and every car had 2 riders, we have 9+ miles of trail out there. Having 100 riders (optimistically) on 9+ miles of trail is still pretty spacious.

-Tony

[charliebrown]

At the most congested of times when the lot is CHOCK full, I maybe end up passing or getting passed by 5 or 6 other riders. I'll see groups stopped at the normal spots to stop (X entrance, XX branch, camelback) but those areas are easy to navigate around others. Yeah, leb is heavily used, but I've NEVER had that interfere with my ability to ride there. Even if we doulbed the parking capacity and every car had 2 riders, we have 9+ miles of trail out there. Having 100 riders (optimistically) on 9+ miles of trail is still pretty spacious.

-Tony


I agree, I ride Lebanon a lot, and I have seen an amazing amount of cars over in that lot there and all seemed to be bikers and I have never felt like I couldn't ride due to the number of other people.

[smklugherz]

I agree, I ride Lebanon a lot, and I have seen an amazing amount of cars over in that lot there and all seemed to be bikers and I have never felt like I couldn't ride due to the number of other people.


I have never had a problem riding when it was busy, I was more concerned about wear and tear on the trail.

I should not forget the upside of more riders. The more people using the park (and of course being good stewards) it seems like the more park districts like us and want to work with us.

[gopherhockey]

I should not forget the upside of more riders. The more people using the park (and of course being good stewards) it seems like the more park districts like us and want to work with us.

It seems that they count traffic in various parks, and $ is somehow given out based on traffic. If that were the case our little 80 acres should be a goldmine for Dakota I would think.

I used to be all about keeping Leb the king of the hill, wanting people to ride and give praise etc. Now I'm excited that there are other trails doing cool stuff because we really need to reduce the traffic at Leb. In fact I may start yanking out all the skate park stuff in hopes people will go elsewhere to ride that stuff. :D

Interestingly enough the attempt to add milage is also an attempt to keep rider laps down. Maybe at the 10 mile + sweet spot many people will feel one lap is enough, or that two full outer loop laps is too much.

At any rate, the new lot should have lots more parking and maybe even an overflow area. I do want to keep the lines painted with a certain amount of space though to allow bikers to take down their rides without having to smash into other cars. Some parking lots put the stripes way too close together.

[nigel]

So this may have been covered in previous posts, sorry for not reading. I was at Leb for about 11 hours today for the C-Dale demo (employee) and noticed a ton of people parking in the bike lot but wandering to the field, this happened all day long. Around game time, tons of soccer moms and dads took up many spots that bikers could have used. I know we had the big demo truck there and took some spots and appologize for the once a year inconvienience, but the soccer folks don't need to park there do they? I thought there was a lot closer on the other side?

D

[Ish]

In fact I may start yanking out all the skate park stuff in hopes people will go elsewhere to ride that stuff. :D


Back away from the ledge John.;)

Hey Doug - ya that was covered in the first two pages of the thread. I think we are playing nice......for now:cool:

[smklugherz]

...but the soccer folks don't need to park there do they? I thought there was a lot closer on the other side?


Doug, in a nutshell, soccer parents probably should not park there (It is a fuzzy line, how many times have you parked at a school, church, etc. when a park lot was full?), but it is really not a battle that should be fought since the county/city will take kids soccer over mountain bikes any day.

With the parking improvements, the hope is that the situation improves.

[JHM]

At any rate, the new lot should have lots more parking and maybe even an overflow area. I do want to keep the lines painted with a certain amount of space though to allow bikers to take down their rides without having to smash into other cars. Some parking lots put the stripes way too close together.

I suggest they leave the lines off to save money. People will figure out how much space to leave between vehicles on their own. It is a proven parking solution in high density areas.

[gopherhockey]

I suggest they leave the lines off to save money. People will figure out how much space to leave between vehicles on their own. It is a proven parking solution in high density areas.

Interesting. Does it work in areas where there is a lot of turnover happening?

It seems the existing lot gets into this situation where 20 cars could fit on either side of the median, but only 15 do because people are coming and going so much they end up taking up too much space, and half don't know how to angle park.

[bigwheel]

I suggest they leave the lines off to save money. People will figure out how much space to leave between vehicles on their own. It is a proven parking solution in high density areas.

It might be proven in high density areas, but we are taking about soccer moms and stupid mountain bikers.

If you go to Leb on any busy night, you can see where we'd be able to easily fit another 5-10 cars if people would only use the "normal" amount of space.

[Steven W.]

Wouldn't you be able to try it w/o lines and if that ends up being a disaster add the lines at a later time? Than you'd be able to see if the turnover/lack of "angle parking" knowledge would be a factor or not.

[JHM]

Wouldn't you be able to try it w/o lines and if that ends up being a disaster add the lines at a later time? Than you'd be able to see if the turnover/lack of "angle parking" knowledge would be a factor or not.

This might happen due to the construction process. The lot will likely be opened before the final layer is put down. Sometimes a year goes by after a road goes into service and the finish layer is put down.

[fasterfoster]

... and half don't know how to angle park.
10-4!

[tbauch]

stir the pot...

our group just finished riding tonight and an eagan police officer showed up.

we were enjoying a post ride libation and he came over and talked to us, saying someone had just called and reported unlawful behavior (caller wished to remain anonymous). we were polite and asked if we were doing something wrong - "no" was the answer.

after further investigation he determined someone was looking for a parking spot, which there wasn't any, and they spotted someone/a group drinking a post ride libation and they didn't think that was kosher so they called the po-po...

what the?

[MikeyB]

some soccer mom get pissed?

[Stonehenge]

some soccer mom get pissed?

Maybe just a walker with a pooch and came to drop off some used doggie treats on the trail. Couldnt park so had to take the pooch to place he/ she would actually have to pick it up after.

Dont blame the dog - blame the dog owner.

[Ish]

some soccer mom get pissed?

We offered her a primo.:cool:
Hopefully they will start parking North of the soccer field....

We were also chilln' with a few and the cop left us alone. It's all goood!

maybe it was the smoke mobile you guys were rokin' that set her off?:D

[smklugherz]

we were enjoying a post ride libation and he came over and talked to us, saying someone had just called and reported unlawful behavior

I am not supprised that this happened, until I started doing the group rides, I would have figured that sitting around and drinking in the park (except perhaps in the picnic areas) was against the rules.

It sounds like the officer knew the rules and was polite about it. So that is good.

[gopherhockey]

I am not supprised that this happened, until I started doing the group rides, I would have figured that sitting around and drinking in the park (except perhaps in the picnic areas) was against the rules.

It sounds like the officer knew the rules and was polite about it. So that is good.

Drinking in the Leb parking lot is technically againt the rules... it says something about being allowed in public areas but not in the parking lots. Since our side of the park wasn't (yet) given any real public areas to do this I think they give us some slack.

It probably isn't a wise move to take up parking spots while celebrating post ride. Thats bad for bikers wanting to come ride too. (not saying anyone was doing that, but I've seen it)

[gopherhockey]

Here is the ordinance for Dakota County Parks:

Section B -Drug and Alcohol Use
It shall be unlawful, when in a County Park, for any person to:
1. Serve, possess, consume, sell, barter, furnish, give, purchase or attempt to purchase any alcoholic
beverage in violation of State Statutes;
2. Serve, possess, or consume any alcoholic beverage, except beer and wine in picnic areas or other
areas designated for such use, unless otherwise authorized by permit;
3. Possess in an unsealed container or consume any beer or wine on County Park properties set aside
or designated as a parking area, road or parkway;
4. Possess or bring into a County Park beer or wine in kegs, barrels, or case lot quantities without a
permit;
- ' *
5. Be under the influence of alcohol or other controlled substance:
6. Use or be under the influence by reason of inhaling any substance defined as an "inhalant"; or
7. Serve, possess, consume, sell, barter, furnish, give, purchase or attempt to purchase any
controlled substance, except the possession or consumption of such substance with a lawful
prescription.

[smklugherz]

3. Possess in an unsealed container or consume any beer or wine on County Park properties set aside
or designated as a parking area, road or parkway;


Wait....isn't there a picnic area at the top of the hill after the log ladder? Time to start filling the Camelbak with something else....:banana::banana::banana:

Just kidding, thanks for posting the real rules John.

[gopherhockey]

Just kidding, thanks for posting the real rules John.

I think the cop probably looked the other way becuase nobody really site there and abuses it. Its not like we're a bunch of under age drinkers causing problems...

We just need to watch our huge group ride post celebrations. If we fly it in their face eventually they might crack down, just like they eventually did with people riding in the park after 10pm.

We don't need to give parks patrol any reason to dislike our group. We're the good guys/gals! ;)

[soupboy]

What about the field of free-range hemp I planted in the XX loop to make organic chamois with?

7. Serve, possess, consume, sell, barter, furnish, give, purchase or attempt to purchase any controlled substance, except the possession or consumption of such substance with a lawful
prescription.

[soupboy]

Silly rabbit, you should know that soccer MILFs prefer Natty Ice.

We offered her a primo.:cool:

[bikeoutback]

I can see why the soccer parking may be a problem at Leb now. I went there last night to the hiking trails and got there little before 6pm. there was about 6 cars in the lot total with bike racks and such. I hiked about about an hour and was in the lot around quarter to 7pm. At this point there was about 10 cars in the lot, of which 4 had bike racks and 2 had bikers putting bikes in their cars. The other 4 as far as I could tell leaned toward soccer fielders instead of bikers. However over the following 15 minutes 1 out of the next 15 cars that parked there was a biker, every other single one was soccer mom/dad, drop the kids, park the car and get out with bag chairs and head to the soccer fields. It was just a stream of them pulling in, one after another after another and it was still happening when I left. I know it's public lot but I can see why it might be a problem.

[Stonehenge]

Get out the join MORC literature and place in under the wipers. Keep a supply at the trail head then any biker can help place literature.

I can see why the soccer parking may be a problem at Leb now. I went there last night to the hiking trails and got there little before 6pm. there was about 6 cars in the lot total with bike racks and such. I hiked about about an hour and was in the lot around quarter to 7pm. At this point there was about 10 cars in the lot, of which 4 had bike racks and 2 had bikers putting bikes in their cars. The other 4 as far as I could tell leaned toward soccer fielders instead of bikers. However over the following 15 minutes 1 out of the next 15 cars that parked there was a biker, every other single one was soccer mom/dad, drop the kids, park the car and get out with bag chairs and head to the soccer fields. It was just a stream of them pulling in, one after another after another and it was still happening when I left. I know it's public lot but I can see why it might be a problem.

[tacdad]

Get out the join MORC literature and place in under the wipers. Keep a supply at the trail head then any biker can help place literature.
Speaking of such, I really should fill out that app.:D

[neb32]

Angle parking? Is 90 degrees an angle?

What fun would life be if you didn't break rules?