Lutsen

[gus man]

luten sucks. what a crock of ****.


http://www.lutsen.com/summer/sawtooth_park/mountainBiking.cfm

G

[jitterjepp]

Looks like Lutsen has some misconceptions about sustainable trails, how to build them or ....I don't know
What happened up there. Anyone know?

[Don Youngdahl]

At least they are also banning the hay burners. It would be a total travesty to kick out mountain bikes and keep those 4-legged roto-tillers.:D

[Renegade]

this really sucks. I've been trying to get up there to ride for the past couple of summers and promised myself I would make it happen this year.

I don't know if it's worse that I never made it up, or if it would have been worse knowing exactly what we are losing.

Anyways - unless they change it back I'm not making any plans to snowboard there anytime soon.

[RichZilla]

this really sucks. I've been trying to get up there to ride for the past couple of summers and promised myself I would make it happen this year.

I don't know if it's worse that I never made it up, or if it would have been worse knowing exactly what we are losing.

Anyways - unless they change it back I'm not making any plans to snowboard there anytime soon.

+1
........

[FarmerBEN]

this really sucks. I've been trying to get up there to ride for the past couple of summers and promised myself I would make it happen this year.

I don't know if it's worse that I never made it up, or if it would have been worse knowing exactly what we are losing.

Anyways - unless they change it back I'm not making any plans to snowboard there anytime soon.


I was very let down by the quality of the skiing up there anyhow.

As for what happened, I assume they figured it was no longer worthwhile to keep the trails while no one was riding them. And for the trail fees they were charging who could blame people for not riding there.

[Rocky Mountain]

No big loss due to poor (summer) management. With Duluth's new trails in the bluffs then the time saved not going farther north can be spent riding.

Know of some of this site's groupies that confirmed that the major lift was working and then went up there to find out it was not which forces you to bike to the top.

[fasterfoster]

this really sucks. I've been trying to get up there to ride for the past couple of summers and promised myself I would make it happen this year.

I don't know if it's worse that I never made it up, or if it would have been worse knowing exactly what we are losing.

Anyways - unless they change it back I'm not making any plans to snowboard there anytime soon.
I couldn't agree more. I sent a message to the e-mail address listed.

[destrago]

I've only been to Lutsen once on a bike. Honestly I can say I don't feel like you're missing much. Maybe it's just not my thing but it seems to me like mountain biking was really an afterthought at Lutsen. My guess is that in truth they weren't making enough money on it to justify the overhead doing it. Personally, I'm going to go with "no big loss" on this one.

-Tony

[charliebrown]

I am a season ski pass holder up at Lutsen and I had been hearing some rumors about stuff going on up there, one was the mountain bike trails closing, so I have been emailing with someone up there, whom is in the know about the happenings of the resort. From what I have gotten from the resort, they are closing the mountain bike area due to a couple of things. First, the guys whom attempted to build and maintain the trails have left, so there isn't anyone to do that anymore, and also I guess Lutsen has been sued on a number of occasions due to people getting hurt biking. Even though you sign a waiver people were still going after the mountains. From what I understand the number of riders and the expense of keeping everything up and running isn't worth the effort. I rode up there a couple times, thought it was fun, thought it could have been better.

As for the skiing, supposely they are putting in and upgrading 3 to 4 new lifts in the next couple years. The first is supposely going to be up and running for next season. They are also supposely going to open 12 new expert trails on the backside of Moose mountain in the next year or so. Hopefully this will all happen because my only complaint with the resort is the lift capacity, but I love skiing up there and I disagree with anyone who says it sucks. It has good and varied terrain and plenty of vertical. IMO it is the best resort in the midwest and I have skied all of the UP resorts, which I thought were old and small, better snow in some cases yes but still it is all about size and terrain. I think Lutsen does a great job considering the lack of snow up there in the last couple seasons, they have managed to be 100% open even with the crappy natural conidtions. I have about 15 ski days in up there this year and I think the conditions are excellent. Next to Big Sky MT it is my favorite place to ski.

[seberly]

The races XC races that were held there for a few years in the late 90's were epic and very fun. The downhill off of Moose had beacoup ledge rock, etc.

Funny thing is I'm not sure how you could even begin to compare the amount of dirt that ends up in the river from the existence of clear cut ski trails to MTB riding. They push more dirt around in 10 minutes from their ski operations relative to MTB so that can't really be the reason. The flooding that occurs in that river valley in spring is unbelievable - it often pushes the bridge at the bottom of Moose of the footings. The liability concerns could be though as it's a huge area difficult to control or gain access to riders.

[MTBgirl]

I couldn't agree more. I sent a message to the e-mail address listed.

I sent one too...here is the info straight from the source. I encourage everyone who is concerned about losing a really fun place to go for an inexpensive MTB trip to communicate that with the resort.

Lutsen's website on the closing of their trails to mtb:
Customer satisfaction is of paramount importance to us. We encourage past and future guests to share your thoughts with us by submitting a comment by email, mail or by phone at a point of contact listed below:
Lutsen Mountains Corporation
Phone: (218) 663-7281
Address: PO Box 129 - Lutsen, MN 55612
Email: ski@lutsen.com (ski@lutsen.com)

[jitterjepp]

Lutsen has been sued on a number of occasions due to people getting hurt biking. Even though you sign a waiver people were still going after the mountains. From what I understand the number of riders and the expense of keeping everything up and running isn't worth the effort.
Allow me to introduce something I've been working on for some time. Its the new and improved liability waiver. I call this the "I really, really mean it waiver" with the added "cross my heart and hope to die" feature. I am working on a waiver for "in case my fingers were crossed during this waiver" but its taking some time to get the wording right.

I, ________ agree that I will in no way, shape or form hold ________ responsible for anything I do, anything that happens to me or anything god or unknown forces may bring upon me while on __________ property.
Furthermore I testify on this day of _______ that I really, really mean it. Cross my heart and hope to die.

Singed________ date_____________
Parent or guardian___________ date_____________

[MTBgirl]

Looks like Lutsen has some misconceptions about sustainable trails, how to build them or ....I don't know
What happened up there. Anyone know?

I will say that while they had issues with trail maintenance, their biggest issue was mismarked trails. I found some of their easiest trails to be marked "expert", while some of the most challenging trails were marked "easy/beginnner". Waiver or not...that has lawsuit written all over it for the inexperienced biker family. In my email to them I suggested that instead of closing the trails, they mark them appropriatley as well as discountinue renting bikes. That way they won't have people "trying out" mountian biking at the resort...that is surely not the place to learn to MTB!!! Even with some overgrown trails, it's still a fun place for an experienced rider.

[jitterjepp]

I will say that while they had issues with trail maintenance, their biggest issue was mismarked trails. I found some of their easiest trails to be marked "expert", while some of the most challenging trails were marked "easy/beginnner". Waiver or not...that has lawsuit written all over it for the inexperienced biker family. In my email to them I suggested that instead of closing the trails, they mark them appropriatley as well as discountinue renting bikes. That way they won't have people "trying out" mountian biking at the resort...that is surely not the place to learn to MTB!!! Even with some overgrown trails, it's still a fun place for an experienced rider.
I see. I liability annoyance thing comes out of me occasionally due to me feeling like my options and ability to accept the consequence are limited due to those of us who wont. I will say I don't think its responsible to have poorly or mis marked trails.

[El Chupacabra]

I actually enjoyed my experience there last summer. It's nice to have something to do when you can't stray far from your resort (family obligations). I would hate to see it close.

[dave t]

You need to add a signature line for :
Witnessed and acknowleged by everyone I know ______

Incase you are unable to accept responsibility on your own behalf.

I agree the erosion line is a cop-out to avoid saying "because we don't see enough $$$ from the limited maintenance and support we offered bikers".

They can get tons of people up there just to look out the window of their $500K condo and maybe take a walk in the woods. Why mess around with a few adrenaline junkies.

The real erosion problems are more likely caused by all the development they have up there anyway but that's not stopping.

[Lezgo Cycling]

yes this really sucks :mad: I too liked it up there ang o all the time biking and hiking, camping etc....I wills till go but it sucks thats no more biking..

[bakkeb]

I was very let down by the quality of the skiing up there anyhow.


What are you comparing this to? Out west? I've been skiing for 30 yrs and have a tough time finding anything as good as Lutsen around here. MI and WI included. Its not the Rockies or the Apps. but it is quality skiing for sure.:etard:

[FarmerBEN]

What are you comparing this to? Out west? I've been skiing for 30 yrs and have a tough time finding anything as good as Lutsen around here. MI and WI included. Its not the Rockies or the Apps. but it is quality skiing for sure.:etard:

first I should say as a disclaimer that the snow was terrible and all fake when I was there. We tried to take moose access across and scratched the crap out of my relatively new skis. So maybe I wasn't in the proper frame of mind, to give it a fair shake.

But that being said my overall impression of it was that it was trying to emulate the rocky mountain ski destination atmosphere, while not being able to deliver the rocky mountain skiing. I hated how it was situated on four mountains, I hate gondolas because taking off my skis that much drives me crazy, the fact that they didn't even have a single quad lift made gathering our group of 7 at the top of the mt. time consuming. I can't say that I've skied any other great Midwestern destinations, but the thought I had while skiing up there was "I drove 5 hours for this?' So not to say that it is horrible, it is probably Midwest skiing at its best, I just said that I was a little disappointed.

[bakkeb]

first I should say as a disclaimer that the snow was terrible and all fake when I was there. We tried to take moose access across and scratched the crap out of my relatively new skis. So maybe I wasn't in the proper frame of mind, to give it a fair shake.

But that being said my overall impression of it was that it was trying to emulate the rocky mountain ski destination atmosphere, while not being able to deliver the rocky mountain skiing. I hated how it was situated on four mountains, I hate gondolas because taking off my skis that much drives me crazy, the fact that they didn't even have a single quad lift made gathering our group of 7 at the top of the mt. time consuming. I can't say that I've skied any other great Midwestern destinations, but the thought I had while skiing up there was "I drove 5 hours for this?' So not to say that it is horrible, it is probably Midwest skiing at its best, I just said that I was a little disappointed.

I hear ya. I've had bad skiing experiences due to mother nature. If you would've been there this weekend like I was, you might have a different feeling towards Lutsen. Oh, and you can get to all four mtns. without taking off your skis....trust me.:etard:

[destrago]

I hear ya. I've had bad skiing experiences due to mother nature. If you would've been there this weekend like I was, you might have a different feeling towards Lutsen. Oh, and you can get to all four mtns. without taking off your skis....trust me.:etard:


Yeah, buy can you get to all 4 without strapping out of your snowboard? That's a little more difficult. (Despite this message and my prior regarding mtb, I love lutsen for snowboarding and definitely plan on going back for more in seasons to come. ESPECIALLY if they start adding better lifts (Last time I was there the Mystery MTN lift timed in at just over 12 minutes)).

-Tony

[FarmerBEN]

also more on topic, anyone here should go to copper harbor, mi and see the potential that a place like lutsen has for phenomenal trails. Why could sam relocate his cycle kayak shop to tofte and give mn some epic worthy trails.

also does anyone have an e-mail address of a trail-stewardship expert at either morc or imba that I can include in an e-mail to the management. I feel like this is an opportunity for morc to really get together to not only save the trails but also improve on them. Possibly in the form of a weekend camping trailbuilding trip, maybe even in the form of a trail building school or seminar. Rally the freeride crew, because north shore features on MN northshore would be pretty cool, even if I am not daring enough to do that stuff.

[Kingbozo]

Spirit Mountain really should get something serious going.

[bigwheel]

I've never biked at Lutsen, but we stopped bringing ski groups there years ago. Sure, they have a great hill and usually good snow. But the people were jerks to deal with, and they were terrible about maintenance.

For local skiing, Giants Ridge is the place. (downhill and XC) Not quite as big of a hill as Lutsen, but it is always well-maintained, they have a nice lodge on the hill, and the people have been great to work with. The runs are separated, so it has a bit of an "out west" feel. (except for the short runs)

They have some bike trails, but I don't think they are worth going there for. I think that the property is public land, so they might be more willing to take on the liability. If there was enough interest from the downhill biking community, they might listen.

Plus, it's only about a 3 1/2 hour drive from the twin cities.

[LMARX]

Even if Lutsen is poorly managed, the location alone made the trip worth the driver. A bunch of us were planning a trip to Lutsen in July. We would still like to plan something on the north shore. Does anyone have any info on Pin Cushion? Is it being maintained? Is it marked? Is it worth the trip?

How about Superior National Forest? From what I've heard, it's dirt roads only. Any other suggestions.

[MY GRAIN]

Does anyone have any info on Pin Cushion? Is it being maintained? Is it marked? Is it worth the trip?

Pin Cushion is wide xc ski trails with rolling hill, it has many options. If you go in the correct direction some of the downhills can be fast. There is also a 30 foot rock face that is fun to climb and if you explore past the rock face you will find awesome views of lake Superior. It is worth checking out. Visit the bike shop in town they should be able to help with maps

[stefan]

This is a real disappointment. Sure, the trails were pretty poorly maintained, but it was still a good time and a challenging ride for me. I emailed the ski@lutsen address to express my opinion, as well as to try and point them to the IMBA trail building stuff.

[Heuy]

Allow me to introduce something I've been working on for some time. Its the new and improved liability waiver. I call this the "I really, really mean it waiver" with the added "cross my heart and hope to die" feature. I am working on a waiver for "in case my fingers were crossed during this waiver" but its taking some time to get the wording right.

I, ________ agree that I will in no way, shape or form hold ________ responsible for anything I do, anything that happens to me or anything god or unknown forces may bring upon me while on __________ property.
Furthermore I testify on this day of _______ that I really, really mean it. Cross my heart and hope to die.

Singed________ date_____________
Parent or guardian___________ date_____________

Anyone remember the waiver that was posted a long time ago on these forums for a rock climbing area?

We need to send that one to them. It went into the possibility of other guests being homicidal, stupid, maybe both, inherint danger and that the owners don't even care if you get hurt or die,it was hilarious.

maybe 3 pages long.

[charliebrown]

Does anyone have any info on Pin Cushion? Is it being maintained? Is it marked? Is it worth the trip?

Pin Cushion is wide xc ski trails with rolling hill, it has many options. If you go in the correct direction some of the downhills can be fast. There is also a 30 foot rock face that is fun to climb and if you explore past the rock face you will find awesome views of lake Superior. It is worth checking out. Visit the bike shop in town they should be able to help with maps

I rode Pin Cushion last year. It is cool, but I thought it was very disappointing. You have to ride a long way before you get to the single track. Looks like it might be good someday, but not for a while. Just my opinion...

[jms]

yeah lutsen closing to bikes does blow:banghead:, bigtime, but my buddies and i have said that day would be coming sooner than later, we've seen the writing on the wall for years now. 8 of us have been there twice a summer for years, and now........who knows, but we'll figure something out.:mad:
it was never about the riding for us, some of the guys never even rode, it was always about the rekindling of friendships!:etard:
when they closed for that summer awhile back to build the new joint at the top, there was talk of not reopening the whole works to biking, so it took alittle more time that i originally heard, but it did happen. to me if a place of bussiness doesn't want my $$$ then F---k em!!!!
over the years the riding was awesome to terrible, but that's the way it goes when a place just squeaks by for a bit extra coin in the off season.
enviromental issues, and liabilitly issues are a bunch of smelly horse crap!!!:nono: oh wait they aren't there anymore either.

thanks for the vent!!

Peace,
Joe

[nigel]

I've never biked at Lutsen, but we stopped bringing ski groups there years ago. Sure, they have a great hill and usually good snow. But the people were jerks to deal with, and they were terrible about maintenance.

For local skiing, Giants Ridge is the place. (downhill and XC) Not quite as big of a hill as Lutsen, but it is always well-maintained, they have a nice lodge on the hill, and the people have been great to work with. The runs are separated, so it has a bit of an "out west" feel. (except for the short runs)

They have some bike trails, but I don't think they are worth going there for. I think that the property is public land, so they might be more willing to take on the liability. If there was enough interest from the downhill biking community, they might listen.

Plus, it's only about a 3 1/2 hour drive from the twin cities.

I was talking with one of the Ski/Board instructors for Giants Ridge the other week and he was saying they are going to be building a chalet on the top of the hills and actually have plans for mtn bike trails to draw people there in the non-ski season. Perhaps we should contact and find out more..........

D

[jitterjepp]

I was talking with one of the Ski/Board instructors for Giants Ridge the other week and he was saying they are going to be building a chalet on the top of the hills and actually have plans for mtn bike trails to draw people there in the non-ski season. Perhaps we should contact and find out more..........

D
Dan and Rebecca also have used the area for their adventure races. It seems like they may be a bit more open.

[nigel]

Dan and Rebecca also have used the area for their adventure races. It seems like they may be a bit more open.


They (I don't remember who) used to have a Mtn bike race up there every year too, way back when. They were kinda fun and stuff.

[jms]

here's a little info for ya all.
take it for what's worth.
http://www.sawtoothchallenge.com/

Peace,
Joe

[Cerps]

Does anyone have any info on Pin Cushion? Is it being maintained? Is it marked? Is it worth the trip?

I rode pincushion last August. Like an earlier post said, I also thought it was disappointing but maybe I was expecting too much. It was not technical, but it was scenic. You can get a good workout. It was in the 90's the day I was there and the ride out of town to get to it up the gunflint was a good warm up for it. If you stop at the bike shop in town, for $5 they will give you a copy of a map and give you some advice on where to access it, but it wasn't needed, and considering I had just spent $10 on gue and stuff I thought they could have tossed it in.

To go back down, if you leave the main parking lot on what looks like the superior trail, there is a trail (snowmobile) that goes to the left that will take you most of the way down, and it was a nicer than taking the highway back down.

[fasterfoster]

This is a real disappointment. Sure, the trails were pretty poorly maintained, but it was still a good time and a challenging ride for me. I emailed the ski@lutsen address to express my opinion, as well as to try and point them to the IMBA trail building stuff.
Has anyone received a response? I haven't!
Apparently, they don't care!
Spend your $$$ elsewhere!

[MTBgirl]

[quote=fasterfoster;271757]Has anyone received a response? I haven't!
quote]

I haven't either, not a big shocker though. I don't think they really care too much.

[jms]

many emails over the years, never a response.

Peace,
Joe


Has anyone received a response? I haven't!
Apparently, they don't care!
Spend your $$$ elsewhere!

[LMARX]

Does anyone from COGGS have an opinion here? Jump right in.

[charliebrown]

Whenever I have emailed the mountain I have always gotten a response, it might take a few days but I have always gotten answers to my questions. Patience grasshoppers.

[jms]

Whenever I have emailed the mountain I have always gotten a response, it might take a few days but I have always gotten answers to my questions. Patience grasshoppers.


i can totally understand a few days to reply to an e-mail. sh--, i can see a week, but to never get a response is something else. :sick:
now, now, i hear you........yeah, you were rude in your e-mail, you couldn't be further from the truth. you know.............to think about it........ maybe i was overly nice, and that's why they didn't reply??!!:jumpy:
anyway,
Peace,
Joe