Knolly bikes

[jjrsds]

Looking at getting a new frame/bike for the next year and have been looking at Knolly's Endorphin frame to mate with my Marzocchi SL 1 fork 120-160mm fork. Three different shock options depending on riding style and can run a variety of different forks as well. Check it out here http://www.knollybikes.com/frames/endorphin/index.aspx

I have seen his V-tach and spoke with him a few times in Fruita, CO. seems like a great option for my riding style. Builds bikes to ride and make sense.

The bike is actually good for a 165mm front fork. I sent an email to Knolly and Noel the founder of the compay sent an email back regarding the specifications. Can't get better than that.

[berrywise]

Looking at getting a new frame/bike for the next year and have been looking at Knolly's Endorphin frame to mate with my Marzocchi SL 1 fork 120-160mm fork. Three different shock options depending on riding style and can run a variety of different forks as well. Check it out here http://www.knollybikes.com/frames/endorphin/index.aspx

I have seen his V-tach and spoke with him a few times in Fruita, CO. seems like a great option for my riding style. Builds bikes to ride and make sense.

The bike is actually good for a 165mm front fork. I sent an email to Knolly and Noel the founder of the compay sent an email back regarding the specifications. Can't get better than that.

I met him a long time ago via mtbr.com and have talked to him a few times in Vegas. Nice guy, sweet to hear you are looking to get one of his bikes.

[soupboy]

I highly recommend calling Larry Mettler (http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com/) if you're serious. He's been on a Knolly for some time and loves it.

I'm holding out for his 1st 29er FS.

[DanB]

Looks nice! :)

A few thoughts/concerns. :eyeroll:

Seems like a lot of moving parts at the upper pivot/shock mount, but in return it looks like they use a nice bearing system. Of course I own a Turner so what would I know about bearings.......;)

Fits fatties, tires up to 2.5".......nice! :cool:

It's interesting both dropouts are replaceable, kinda cool as long it doesn't make the frame flexy. But they look pretty beefy. :fool:

How do they get around the Horst Link and ICT patent I wonder? I know Scott and a few others sell HL's in their respective countries and then change the frame to a faux bar for the states or skip that model in the US lineup. You should check into that. I didn't see anything on the frame or website saying they are paying homage to the stupid big S or that frickin' yahoo Mr. 110% efficient. :banghead:

So I have two last questions...........what color you gonna get or........are you just gonna buy a Turner, become a Homer leaving all the worries behind??? :D

[jjrsds]

No Turner for me, they are like the backside of a human being everyone has one and thinks it doesn't stink :shocked: (I am poking fun at Dan and his choice of riding a Turner, this is no way a reflection on Turner products which IMHO makes nice bicycles). Not sure of the patents involved but Knolly has some of their own patents pending with this being one of them http://www.knollybikes.com/engineering/four-linkage-technology.aspx

The Big S's claim to fame is the bearing/pivot in the rear by the dropouts, I can relate a lot of information on that if you need (boring). You should have looked at the frame in OTE this year, they had one sitting on the wall.

All his frames are super stiff in the rear (haven't ridden just heard) and don't see a problem with a replacable non-drive side dropout. Check out all the slider type SS rears, the Delerium T's and V-tach's chain stay length adjustment depending on conditions.

Besides would I get something flexy? You've been on my road bike not my style to be on a flaccid bike (feel free to expand and have fun at my expense:banghead:).

Not sure of color or if it will materialize into my grubby hands but it won't be a Turner Blue:hit:.

Keep working the knee so riding isn't a problem.

Lance was wrong it is about the bike.:crazy:

[nigel]

JJ, just order a Judge and call it a day :crazy:

[jjrsds]

Don't want a complete bike unless it is this.

http://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=5&itemid=424

Judge won't cut it to much in the wrong area and not enough in another and don't want to swap out parts to make it for me. Had enough of not getting what I want and after my purchase last year for a great road bike why stop now.

This would be closer but to much SRAM on the bike.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?sid=08Pitch

When we going bowling Jorge needs another Beat down by me.

[DanB]

No Turner for me, they are like the backside of a human being everyone has one and thinks it doesn't stink (I am poking fun at Dan and his choice of riding a Turner, this is no way a reflection on Turner products which IMHO makes nice bicycles). Not sure of the patents involved but Knolly has some of their own patents pending with this being one of them http://www.knollybikes.com/engineering/four-linkage-technology.aspx (http://www.knollybikes.com/engineering/four-linkage-technology.aspx [/quote)

I love any bike company that can get around those two patents! :incazzato:

The Big S's claim to fame is the bearing/pivot in the rear by the dropouts, I can relate a lot of information on that if you need (boring). You should have looked at the frame in OTE this year, they had one sitting on the wall.

I was too busy sitting outside watching Bob, Craig, John, and Jeff see if they could melt the paint off the inside of the rental van with human powered paint remover. :sick: Oh yeah they did have a really cute super nice girl working though that I did notice though.......:eyeroll:

All his frames are super stiff in the rear (haven't ridden just heard) and don't see a problem with a replacable non-drive side dropout. Check out all the slider type SS rears, the Delerium T's and V-tach's chain stay length adjustment depending on conditions.

Yeah that won't be an issue I'm sure. Plenty of road bikes out there have and have had that for awhile now I guess. And there hasn't ever seemed to be any problem with the Paragon or Moots sliders on a SS. Speaking of SS's. The Strong will be "modified" as soon as Carl gives me the green light to do this. :cool:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/interbike/spot-bikes-belt-drive-carbon-drive-system-bikes/

Of course it will need to be repainted then too sooo........since orange is the new black :nono: and I've got one blue bike, one white bike, and one silver bike, what color's next???

Besides would I get something flexy? You've been on my road bike not my style to be on a flaccid bike (feel free to expand and have fun at my expense).

Somewhere in there is a joke about guys who drive big trucks and fast cars but I can't find it.......:p

Not sure of color or if it will materialize into my grubby hands but it won't be a Turner Blue:hit:.

It took a while for me to get used to the blue, but now as it hangs on my bedroom wall I can't help but realize just how beautiful Turner's are......especially when they are blue!!! :D

Keep working the knee so riding isn't a problem.

Once I get past the lastest issue. I will be back on the bike (or should I say Roger!) no later than January 2nd! :banana:

Lance was wrong it is about the bike.

But we all always knew Lance was full of sh!t...........:shocked:

It looks cool I hope you get it. We need more variety. If I see another Turner on the trails I am gonna :cryin: ............ok I guess I'll probably live through it knowing that there is another soul who has found everlasting peace and harmony on a mountain bike. :cool:

[DanB]

This would be closer but to much SRAM on the bike.


I dream in Red now........

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/medium/SRAM_Red_1.jpg

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/medium/SRAM_Red_2.jpg

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/medium/SRAM_Red_3.jpg

I'm actually contemplating a life of crime. Of course then I could get this to go along with it.

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/medium/Red_Pinarello_Prince.jpg

Who says crime doesn't pay??? :cool:;):D

[jjrsds]

Ok the Sram RED road stuff is pretty cool and we have a SL2 hanging in the shop with said components. The solid cassette was pretty cool to pull off and toss around :D (no tossing around but very cool). Nothing like a 14.8 lb bike out of the box in a size 58.

At least the photo of the full bike in your reply has great components on it nothing like a hundred plus years of innovation :p.

Just thinking outside the box and trying to fill my various needs in a ride. Besides I can't seem to get a buyer for the fork John let me win and this would work great with it.

[DanB]

Ok the Sram RED road stuff is pretty cool and we have a SL2 hanging in the shop with said components. The solid cassette was pretty cool to pull off and toss around :D (no tossing around but very cool). Nothing like a 14.8 lb bike out of the box in a size 58.

Man guys get all the cool stuff at that shop don't you? I'll have to drop by and check that out. Although that may not be such a good idea. My credit card will eventually just starting talking to me again........"It's ok, next month will be a good month and the check will be big....don't worry about....use me use me......". I hate when that thing pipes up!!! :eyeroll:

At least the photo of the full bike in your reply has great components on it nothing like a hundred plus years of innovation :p.

Yeah Pinnarello really has their stuff together....oh you mean that other little company........;)

Just thinking outside the box and trying to fill my various needs in a ride. Besides I can't seem to get a buyer for the fork John let me win and this would work great with it.

I've been trying to sell it off for you but everyone has big bikes now so it's been fruitless so far. It's a great fork though. Hate to see it go to waste. You should probably buy that frame......:cool:

Oh yes and next is plastic seatposts for the Serotta and possibly even the Roger. I'm not sure about sliding my way down the saddle on a remount without a good ol' Thomson supporting said saddle, but it's been decided the Serotta gets some goodies this year I think. Unless of course I find $12,000 laying around for the Pinnarello. I love that bike! :D

[dvo1]

This would be closer but to much SRAM on the bike.


Any amount of Sram is to much Sram.

[berrywise]

Any amount of Sram is to much Sram.

That's what I'm talking about. Suntour for life! Represent.

[dvo1]

That's what I'm talking about. Suntour for life! Represent.

Sorry, I'm a campy kid. :banana:

[DanB]

You'll all see Red someday.........hopefully it will be on my new Pinarello.....:D

[dvo1]

You'll all see Red someday.

I would rather slurp rancid tuna salad out of my own a--.

[DanB]

I would rather slurp rancid tuna salad out of my own a--.

Well.........ok then.......... :sick:

[Lezgo Cycling]

I would rather slurp rancid tuna salad out of my own a--.


Tell us how your eally feel ....:D

[jjrsds]

Thanks for the link Soupie, I'll send a message and have a discussion about it. I hate to say it but always a wealth of knowledge.

[soupboy]

I *believe* because Knolly is a Canadian company (Vankoover, BC) and you order (pseudo) directly from them. Sorta like ordering a gray-market RH driver from Nippon.

Did you notice how there aren't any pictures of the rear dropouts on the site...only the linkage around the ST.

How do they get around the Horst Link and ICT patent I wonder?

[soupboy]

That covers your lunch, what about dinner?

I would rather slurp rancid tuna salad out of my own a--.

[DanB]

I *believe* because Knolly is a Canadian company (Vankoover, BC) and you order (pseudo) directly from them. Sorta like ordering a gray-market RH driver from Nippon.

Did you notice how there aren't any pictures of the rear dropouts on the site...only the linkage around the ST.

I did notice that. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to check out whether or not the ones that come into the US really will be a HL rear. :confused:

I will say I have the TNT rear end on my new 5 Spot and I have noticed no negatives between this frame and my two older ones (5 Spot and XCE) that were HL rear ends, neither in performance, braking, traction, or otherwise. I do actually think the rear end may be a little stiffer side to side, but it's cutting hairs as they all worked extremely well. :)

[soupboy]

I can say pretty confidently that they don't have two different designs. Their design, patent-pending, is not a HL.;)

That's why I thought it would be a good idea to check out whether or not the ones that come into the US really will be a HL rear. :confused:

[DMonkey]

JJ -
Looks like a sweet bike.. Have to admit, I'm a Turner fan, and when I get more time on the Titus, I might be one of theirs too!
So all my bikes got to begin with "T" now? - Just like all of Timmy's (Greg H) bikes are from CA (Santa Cruz Heckler, Ellsworth Joker I believe)..

[Standard]

I did notice that. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to check out whether or not the ones that come into the US really will be a HL rear. :confused:

I will say I have the TNT rear end on my new 5 Spot and I have noticed no negatives between this frame and my two older ones (5 Spot and XCE) that were HL rear ends, neither in performance, braking, traction, or otherwise. I do actually think the rear end may be a little stiffer side to side, but it's cutting hairs as they all worked extremely well. :)

Actually, they do have a pics of the dropout area on all the bikes.

They don't use a Horst Link. The dropout pivot is at the same height as the axle, and a few inches in front of it. I'd like to see a path analysis of it, to see what effect it has on the wheel path or if it's just a way to minimize brake input on the suspension.

[berrywise]

Jumping off track but I gotta say this one will be on my list when I get ready for my next bike purchase.

http://www.turnerbikes.com/2007/images/sultan/pic_one.jpg

[soupboy]

Help a brutha out - linky?

Actually, they do have a pics of the dropout area on all the bikes.

The non-Horst Turners have been around for a long time. They're called Ventanas and the designer builds them himself.

Back to Knolly - he is skirting around the Horst by a very thin margin.

[DanB]

Actually, they do have a pics of the dropout area on all the bikes.

They don't use a Horst Link. The dropout pivot is at the same height as the axle, and a few inches in front of it. I'd like to see a path analysis of it, to see what effect it has on the wheel path or if it's just a way to minimize brake input on the suspension.

If you look at the frame in this picture it looks like the pivot is below the dropout/axle.

http://www.knollybikes.com/frames/index.aspx

If you look at this picture (go to the XL pic of the dropout) it looks pretty even. But this picture is deceiving because of the angle.

http://www.knollybikes.com/frames/endorphin/frame-gallery.aspx


The non-Horst Turners have been around for a long time. They're called Ventanas and the designer builds them himself.

I was waiting for that one....... :eyeroll:


Back to Knolly - he is skirting around the Horst by a very thin margin.

I think because they are in Canuck Land they build em' and sell em' with the HL. More power to them! :D

Dave Turner invented the damn design and this is what it has come down to...........how does the Big S and Mr. 110% Efficient sleep at night with themselves! Probably very comfortably I guess in their much larger than Dave Turner's house. :incazzato:

[timmy]

JJ -
Looks like a sweet bike.. Have to admit, I'm a Turner fan, and when I get more time on the Titus, I might be one of theirs too!
So all my bikes got to begin with "T" now? - Just like all of Timmy's (Greg H) bikes are from CA (Santa Cruz Heckler, Ellsworth Joker I believe)..

The Ellsworth I have is an Isis which I've stripped and gave to my brother. Hopefully by June I'll be sporting a '08 Santa Cruz Heckler.:jumpy:

[DanB]

The Ellsworth I have is an Isis which I've stripped and gave to my brother. Hopefully by June I'll be sporting a '08 Santa Cruz Heckler.:jumpy:

I just read something from Richard Cunningham (MBAction) where he named the SC Heckler the best all around "if you had to have one bike for everything" bike. Sometimes he is a goofball but he's been around forever and ridden everything this side of the sun so you have to give that comment some merit. Hopefully you will be sporting one in June Greg. :)

Wait a minute you stripped the Isis again??? :confused:

[timmy]

I just read something from Richard Cunningham (MBAction) where he named the SC Heckler the best all around "if you had to have one bike for everything" bike. Sometimes he is a goofball but he's been around forever and ridden everything this side of the sun so you have to give that comment some merit. Hopefully you will be sporting one in June Greg. :)

Wait a minute you stripped the Isis again??? :confused:

Striped it of it's parts. I think I have a problem!

[Crash]

. They're called Ventanas and the designer builds them himself.

How does that make them better? :confused:
I would rather have a designer, design bikes and a builder, well, build bikes.

A little more effort next time please....:zzz:

[tedsti]

Stop the nonsense and go Ti
http://www.titusti.com/08/mtn/mototi.php

[jjrsds]

Stop the nonsense and go Ti
http://www.titusti.com/08/mtn/mototi.php
If I wanted Ti it would come from here.

http://www.sevencycles.com/home.php

Interesting discussion though. Not my job to collect on patent infringment and don't think any is going on for Knolly. It looks pretty different to me (I think horst link I imagine a Giant XRS 1) but I am not an engineer. Just looking what works for me. I have other avenues that would be less expensive and almost as good, but still keep coming back to this particular frame. Keep up the discussion very fun and lots of information leads to better descisions. Ride what have and have fun doing it.

[DanB]

Striped it of it's parts. I think I have a problem!

I see no problem with that. I believe constantly rotating frames and parts through your life and others should be regarded as the highest form of recycling. :D

[DanB]

If I wanted Ti it would come from here.
http://www.sevencycles.com/home.php


The Duo 5.0 is just so cool and for the low low price of $3295.00 for the frame. :eyeroll:

"Geez fer that yer jist little over halfway to one of them there plastic Pincharello's." :D

I'm actually kind of surprised but the Pinarello Prince built up the way I'd like (or close to it) would only be $8880.09..........ok where's a bank? :nono:

[DmacBmac]

Stop the nonsense and go Ti
http://www.titusti.com/08/mtn/mototi.php


If I was going Ti I would do this:

http://www.jonesbikes.com/update/runoften/index.html

[jjrsds]

The Duo 5.0 is just so cool and for the low low price of $3295.00 for the frame. :eyeroll:

"Geez fer that yer jist little over halfway to one of them there plastic Pincharello's." :D

I'm actually kind of surprised but the Pinarello Prince built up the way I'd like (or close to it) would only be $8880.09..........ok where's a bank? :nono:

Not a suspension design I would choose to get but the Ti hardtails are pretty sweet, most likely a SS type thing. Otherwise Kent Eriksen has been building up some sweet items in that material.

http://kenteriksen.com/ee/index.php/news/news_homepage/

[soupboy]

I knew I'd draw your inner Homer out! You don't have a dog in this fight Mr. Horst Link Turner owner so shaddup.:p

DT doesn't even really design them...first he copied Specialized, then he copied Ellsworth, and now he's just another high-buck faux-bar designer.

I like the idea of the same guy designing and building my bikes vs. outsourcing to some job shop where countless other brands are fabricated under the same roof.

I giggle at all the Homers that claim the faux-bar Turners ride "just like" a Horst -link Turner. That is simply impossible. Go fish.

How does that make them better? I would rather have a designer, design bikes and a builder, well, build bikes.

[soupboy]

No, Horst Leitner invented the design in 1991 while at Amp. Specialized purchased certain IP from the failing Amp business in May of 1998 and many smaller designers have had to pay Big S to incorporate this IP into their frames ever since.

Dave Turner invented the damn design and this is what it has come down to...........how does the Big S and Mr. 110% Efficient sleep at night with themselves!

[Nita]

I knew I'd draw your inner Homer out! You don't have a dog in this fight Mr. Horst Link Turner owner so shaddup.:p

DT doesn't even really design them...first he copied Specialized, then he copied Ellsworth, and now he's just another high-buck faux-bar designer.

I like the idea of the same guy designing and building my bikes vs. outsourcing to some job shop where countless other brands are fabricated under the same roof.

I giggle at all the Homers that claim the faux-bar Turners ride "just like" a Horst -link Turner. That is simply impossible. Go fish.

Aren't Turner's old technology anyway :D.

[DMonkey]

And VPP is new?
Outland had bikes with VPP way back when.. Santa Cruz is the current owner of that pat. -

The only thing I have against VPP is just how many moving parts are on 'em - I liked my Blur, but had to move on.

http://www.firstflightbikes.com/1998_Outland_VPP.htm

Aren't Turner's old technology anyway :D.

[dvo1]

Just switch to hardtails and then you don't have to worry about moving parts.

[DanB]

DT doesn't even really design them...first he copied Specialized, then he copied Ellsworth, and now he's just another high-buck faux-bar designer.

The chicken (Turner) came before the rotten egg (Big S and Mr. 110% Efficient), and yes Dave Turner designs all his bikes, but I know you already knew that. :eyeroll:

I like the idea of the same guy designing and building my bikes vs. outsourcing to some job shop where countless other brands are fabricated under the same roof.

Turners are welded offsite by the same company in Portland that has been doing them since the inception of the company, they are welded by either two or three welders hand chosen by Dave, and like the website says in their spare time they tinker with spacecraft and jet airplanes. :D

I giggle at all the Homers that claim the faux-bar Turners ride "just like" a Horst -link Turner. That is simply impossible. Go fish.

I've owned two Horst Link models and now the TNT and I can't tell the difference. Maybe it's just me. :cool:

No, Horst Leitner invented the design in 1991 while at Amp. Specialized purchased certain IP from the failing Amp business in May of 1998 and many smaller designers have had to pay Big S to incorporate this IP into their frames ever since.

The Horst Link was designed by Horst Leitner in conjunction with Dave Turner. Dave worked for Amp at the time it was designed. I got this straight from the horses mouth. I met Horst Leitner at SEMA in Vegas a few years ago and we talked about Dave Turner. Amp is still in business successfully, they design and manufacture car and truck accessories in Orange County. :)

Aren't Turner's old technology anyway :D.

Yes I suppose they are if you want a spectacular handling, excellently balanced, and completely reliable full suspension frame. Not to mention the customer service is second to none. For instance if you ever want to turn your old frame in for a new one they will give you $600 credit towards a new frame. Even if you run it into a garage and it is in pieces. Yeah old technology but I'll stick with mine. :p;):)

[soupboy]

Messing with Homers is like kicking puppies. Easy, but messy.

I only wish the Vikes were as consistently defensive.

blah, blah, TURNER, blah, whine, Turner, blah, blah (throws up in back of mouth), TURNER

[dvo1]

Messing with Homers is like kicking puppies. Easy, but messy.

I only wish the Vikes were as consistently defensive.

For a rider of this;

http://www.commercialsportsandfitness.com/images/r2200_small.jpg


You sure talk big about what rides better.

I guess marketing really does work on the simple minds.

[DanB]

Messing with Homers is like kicking puppies. Easy, but messy.

I only wish the Vikes were as consistently defensive.

We are a loyal breed........

[Crash]

oh soupie....how many times do you need to be reminded to stop your second hand arm chair engineering by reading MTBR forums and actually go out and ride your bike.:p

It's about the ride. Come back and explain to us how YOU felt the differences in ride characteristics translate into positive/negative attributes of the different frames and designs.

Until then. :eyeroll:

[DanB]

oh soupie....how many times do you need to be reminded to stop your second hand arm chair engineering by reading MTBR forums and actually go out and ride your bike.:p

It's about the ride. Come back and explain to us how YOU felt the differences in ride characteristics translate into positive/negative attributes of the different frames and designs.

Until then. :eyeroll:

We are a loyal breed........

I should add we are very puppy like that we take a beating and keep coming back for more with our tongues hanging out and tails wagging. :chris: