Cross Country Skis: question

[kabbie_cache]

I have a set of CC skis and was told that they might be waxless, is there a way to tell ?

What the heck is "skate" ski or "ski skate" ?

I bought them from a thrift store just to see if I liked the idea of skiing. Didnt really use them last year, but want to get out and try them this year.

[Lezgo Cycling]

im not sure but I think a SKATE SKI is narrower and used for racing ....but im not 100% I have traditional XC skiis.

As for your waxing issue....see below

[Lezgo Cycling]

Modern Waxless Classic Cross Country Skis-

The term waxless ski refers to a ski which does not need kick wax applied in the wax pocket to get forward kick or climbing ability.
Construction of a modern waxless ski is identical to the modern waxable classic ski. The base material is identical and the wax pocket is built the same way. However on a waxless ski there are serrations cut into the bottom of the ski where you would apply kick wax on the waxable ski.

The tips and tails of waxless skis need glide wax applied to them for the ski to glide properly exactly as a waxable ski.

Unfortunately the term waxless has led folks to believe this type of skis need no wax of any sort. The effect of this misunderstanding are skis which never get glide waxed and become slow.
Unfortunately waxless classic skis have gotten the reputation of not being as fast as waxable classic skis.

Some folks believe that waxless skis are slow because you can some times hear the serrations rub on the snow when you hit a hump or dip on the snow. It is true that waxable skis are quieter when the wax pocket drags on the snow. However all waxable skis drag the wax pocket sometimes just as waxless skis do. When this happens kick wax will always slow a skier down more than dragging a waxless wax pocket.

If a person is fit properly with the same style of skis in both waxable and waxless and the tips and tails are waxed the same, both skis should have similar glide. The camber of both skis should support the wax pocket so it does not come in contact with the snow until the proper time.


If a skiers timing is off and they start to transfer weight away from the kicking ski by putting part of their weight on their poles for instance, the camber of the ski will start to lift the kick pocket off the snow and the ski will not stay planted, it will loose grip and kick out rearward.

Recreational skier- 50%-75% of body weight.
A recreational skier is out skiing for enjoyment, to look around and enjoy their surroundings. They support much of their body weight with their poles and almost never transfer all of their body weight onto one ski.

Fitness skier- 60%-90% of body weight.
A fitness skier has better technique but does not want the fastest ski. A fitness skier skis for fun wants one ski for all conditions and trails. This type of skier still rarely transfers 100% of their body weight to one ski at the proper time.

Enthusiast skier- 75%-110% of body weight
This skier has good technique and wants the fastest ski.
They quite often transfer 100% of their body weight (and sometimes more) onto the ski at the proper time. This type of skier is just not as technically perfect as a ski racer.

Ski racer-90-125% of body weight.
This type of skier has the most perfect technique. And wants the fastest ski. When a skier with good technique transfers their body weight they can actually load the ski with more pounds of energy than their total body weight. This is like the diving board effect.
By bouncing on the end of a diving board you can bend it more (and get more bounce out of it), than by just standing on it and jumping. A technically perfect skier needs a ski with at least 25% residual camber in their skis.

Residual camber is the amount of spring that is left in the ski with 100% of the skiers weight on the center of the wax pocket of one ski.

Waxable skis do have benefits over waxless skis and waxless skis have benefits over waxable skis.

One major benefit that waxable skis have over waxless skis is that a skier can adjust the length of the wax pocket. If a skier does not get fit properly in the first place, changes weight, or uses the same set of skis until they become soft; the wax pocket can be lengthened or shortened by how the kick wax is applied.
Waxable skis are infinitely tunable. The point where the glide wax stops and the kick wax starts is up to the skier.

One major benefit of a waxless set of skis is that they will get kick in all sorts of changing conditions. You do not need to stop skiing to add kick wax as it wears off or to change the kick wax from one to another as the temperature changes. You also save money buying the different temperatures of wax. Waxless skis almost always climb or grip better than waxable skis.

There are times when each type of skis out perform the other.

[Paul Swenson]

do they have fish like scales on the bottom?

[ppgc]

Google is your pal.

http://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+tell+the+difference+between+waxles s+skis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.omerandbobs.com/info%20center/winter%20faq/nordicski3.html

Waxless have the fishscale bottoms...

[Lezgo Cycling]

also check here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing)

[Morrie]

Skate ski's are used for a skiing motion that is similar to ice skating or roller blading. Traditional or classic skiing is a motion that moves your feet like walking or running, one foot in fron of the other. Skate ski's are shorter and stiffer then classic and usually don't have as much of a curved tip.

Waxless ski's are classic ski's and have scales on the bottom of the ski in the middle of the ski. The waxless means that you don't have to apply a kick wax to the middle of the ski. But, you still need to apply glide wax to the front and back of the ski.

[kabbie_cache]

do they have fish like scales on the bottom?

Yes they do

[Paul Swenson]

Yes they do

You have waxless classic skis. You don't have to do anything.

[kabbie_cache]

Once again the great and powerful wisdom of MORC has given me the answers I seek.


Thanks everyone.

[Lezgo Cycling]

well since were talking XC Skiis...I need new shoes for mine,,,any ideas I have classic style with the metal hook on the front of the boot ...I was thinking Pinewskis Anoka

[Brick]

well since were talking XC Skiis...I need new shoes for mine,,,any ideas I have classic style with the metal hook on the front of the boot ...I was thinking Pinewskis Anoka

Is this what you're talking about??

http://www.skypoint.com/%7Eenevala/old%20boot.JPG

[batjerk]

I have an old pair of waxless skis that were never waxed, used one full season and probably only a couple of times after that. Can they still have glide wax applied? Will it make a tangible difference?

Where does one obtain such wax?

The boots are more or less just fine and, surprisingly, the bindings are still attached. I should dig them out and try to use them tonight, new snow and all.

[charliebrown]

You have waxless classic skis. You don't have to do anything.

I would put a glide wax on every thing but the fish scale part... You just put a coat on and clean it off with a rag, easy. No ironing involved. Anywhere that sells ski crap will have this stuff...

[Lezgo Cycling]

Is this what you're talking about??

http://www.skypoint.com/%7Eenevala/old%20boot.JPG

Yes it is ...mine work but are torn and not very warm, they are a soft side boot. I ma looking for something heavier duty

[Brick]

I have an old pair of waxless skis that were never waxed, used one full season and probably only a couple of times after that. Can they still have glide wax applied? Will it make a tangible difference?

Depending on how old they are, wax may or may not work well. The general rule of thumb is--if they have a black (as opposed to a clear) base, they should be able to take wax. If the skis fit properly (the bases don't drag), some wax should give you some extra zip.

Both Toko and Swix make liquid spray-on glide waxes that are ideal for this. Spray-on wax applied to the fishscale area also has the benefit of reducing icing in the kick zone of the ski.

1. Spray
2. Buff out
3. Ski

Much simpler (and cheaper) than fooling around w. hot wax (but you can do that if you REALLY want too)


Where does one obtain such wax?


REI
Hoigaard's
Finn Sisu
Gear West
Pioneer Midwest
Joe's

Pretty much anyplace that sells nordic stuff--you may luck out w. an alpine shop as nordic and alpine glide waxing/tuning are fairly similar.

[bigwheel]

I have an old pair of waxless skis that were never waxed, used one full season and probably only a couple of times after that. Can they still have glide wax applied? Will it make a tangible difference?

Where does one obtain such wax?.

Yes, you can and should put some glide wax on everything but the fish scale part. The glide wax is pretty much the same thing as you for downhill skis. In addition to giving you better glide, it will protect the ski bases from oxidation and dirt. If you were really into it, I'd suggest using some base prep first, but it's a lot of hassle and expense. Also, don't bother getting the expensive stuff, unless you are a racer.

You can pick up the wax at any place that sells skis.

Problem is that glide wax is like paraffin, so you need to iron it in. So if you are not a skier and have a waxing iron or an old clothes iron dedicated to waxing, you might want to sweet talk a friend.

Edit: Just saw Eric's post. He is obviously way more knowledgeable about it than me. Do what he says.

[Brick]

Yes it is ...mine work but are torn and not very warm, they are a soft side boot. I ma looking for something heavier duty

Hate to say it, but you'd be looking at getting both boots AND bindings, unless you can find something that fits on e-bay or at Play it Again. Salomon hasn't made a boot like that in quite a few years.

If you go new, you will see two binding styles out there, NNN and Salomon. Find a boot that fits well, then get the binding that matches. The styles are not compatible, but they both work well.

Both Salomon and Rotafella (NNN) make a back country binding system as well, good for off trail bushwacking...I guess it all depends on what you want to do.

e.

[Paul Swenson]

Does the spay on stuff work? Last time I used it was about 15 years ago on my snowboard and seemed to scrub off after 1/2 a run. Is the new stuff better?

[Brick]

Does the spay on stuff work? Last time I used it was about 15 years ago on my snowboard and seemed to scrub off after 1/2 a run. Is the new stuff better?

Bottom line, nothing is as durable as a good hotwax, as the wax is driven into the base as opposed to coating it. That being said, the modern spray gliders are pretty good. For recreational XC skiing, the spary-on and paste wax gliders are usually good enough, as the convenience and ease-of-use are a bigger issue for most than durability.

....keep in mind that artificial snow is extremely abrasive and brutal on almost any wax job. I wouldn't expect a spray to hold up well for alpine use.

[TrailPatrol]

Modern Waxless Classic Cross Country Skis-

The term waxless ski refers to a ski which does not need kick wax applied in the wax pocket to get forward kick or climbing ability... Waxless skis almost always climb or grip better than waxable skis.

There are times when each type of skis out perform the other.

Wow, that's good! Can I quote you, Gus? That's about as good an explanation as I have seen anywhere.

I use completely waxless, all four pairs. Just saves time getting onto the trail patrolling.

Ski safe,
Hans

[biking_stickman]

Travis (or anyone else),

If you want to learn some XC ski basics, let me know. I used to race XC and put in quite a bit of time learning how to not just "walk with skis on my feet" as my coach so graciously used to say.

Classic is the best way to initially learn and many of those basics can be carried over to skating.

I'm going to try to get out to Battle Creek, Como, or Highland at least once a week this winter. Battle Creek and Como have lit trails for those of us who have to work while the sun is up. Como and Highland are good beginner areas.

For more info on XC, trails, and trail conditions, check out www.skinnyski.com.

Matt

[jitterjepp]

Woo Hoo! I just got my new skis!

[Paul Swenson]

Woo Hoo! I just got my new skis!

Whatcha get?

[jitterjepp]

I got the Rossignol Evo package they have on sale at REI. I don't know much about CC skiing and I want to see if I'm going to like it as much as I did when I was kid.

Basically things got a little out of hand over here the other night when some friends were over and I realized I need a new habit and it has to be something in close proximity because I've been working so much and don't have much time. So I went out and got some CC skis today.

What is out of hand? Probably something like this.
http://generationoutdoors.com/ski1.jpg

or this..
http://generationoutdoors.com/ski2.jpg

[batjerk]

^^^^^
Never been quite that jonesin' to go skiing.:p


Well, I dug the old skis out. Wow, they are really beat up. The bottoms and tops of the skis look okay, the bottoms are a little scratched, but no major damage. The sides, however, are really bad. The white (fiberglass?) stuff is chipped off in spots.

They're Rossignol Touring AR skis. Waxless white bottom symmetrical deals, I do recall something about asymmetric skis at the time. When I bought the things in 1996, the sales guy never mentioned anything about any kind of wax at all, if he had, I'd have bought some.

They don't appear to have lost their spring, when I stand on them, the middle of the ski doesn't quite touch the ground. (I really haven't gained much weight, if any, in the past decade either.) I was actually quite surprised to find the bindings still work.

[biking_stickman]

They don't appear to have lost their spring, when I stand on them, the middle of the ski doesn't quite touch the ground.

The easy way to check if the skis will work for you is to put a small strip of paper under the ski. With equal weight on both feet, you should be able to slide the paper back and forth under your feet. With all of your weight on one foot, the paper should not move at all.

The area that the paper slides back and forth in when equal weight is on both skis is the "kick zone" where kick wax should be applied. For waxless skis, this should be where the fish scale pattern is. If the fish scales (or kick wax) go beyond this area, they will be slowing you down when you try to glide (like having a disc brake that drags on the caliper).

Kick wax tip: If you have waxless skis, kick wax can be added to the kick zone to increase the traction. Because the ski is textured, the kick wax will hold better than on a ski that is smooth.

[homebrewbiker]

Kick wax tip: If you have waxless skis, kick wax can be added to the kick zone to increase the traction. Because the ski is textured, the kick wax will hold better than on a ski that is smooth.

Everyone I have heard has NEVER recommended adding kick wax to waxless skiis as explained in the following link http://www.snocountry.com/article.php/20041227133240622

I don't know maybe it works, but it sounds like it is pretty difficult to clean once it's in the scales.