Best All Mountain wheels ?

[Yammer]

Here's the deal, I used to always just buy strong heavy duty wheelsets when I could find a deal on them. Typically the wheels I would buy are XT hubs with Sun Rhyno Lite Rims with some generic black spokes. These are great bang for the buck but they are usually heavy and I think it's time to perhaps invest in something more refined.

I ride hard, AM style, I weigh about 210 / up to 225 with full gear. I like popping off things, small jumps and drops (4-5' max), I sometimes tweak the bike in the air and land slightly of axis so there may be some hard lateral forces. But at the same time I want to accelerate quickly and be nimble on the local area singletrack. Also the tires I run are 2.35's.

I want to build a strong wheelset, that is as light as possible but also can take my aggressive riding style and tire size, and looks good.

I also am thinking that I want to learn how to build wheels, since that is the only bike mech skill that I am lacking at this point.

So... I'm looking for recommendations for wheelsets, hubs, rims and spokes from people that will fit my bill of requirements. I am open to hearing about both insanely expensive options as well as reasonably affordable. This is the research stage so the sky's the limit.

Also, is there a wheel building class anywhere? I need to learn wheels, it's so limiting to not have that skill!

Thanks, Patrick

[soupboy]

You don't reference a budget so I'll recommend Industry Nines - http://www.industrynine.net/official/allmountain.html

http://www.industrynine.net/Pictures/FORMATTED/AM-RR-set-cropped-600.jpg

[gordanfreeman]

i just had a set of mavic 819's built up for my urban assault rig. lovin' em so far.

[Yammer]

You don't reference a budget so I'll recommend Industry Nines - http://www.industrynine.net/official/allmountain.html




*drool* ooh those looks pretty sweet.
Is 1640 grams pretty light for a wheelset?

I wonder if I built some up myself, how much that would cost (assuming I do it right!).

So, would the XR 4.2d rims be strong enough or would I want to look at the EX 5.1d?
http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fuseaction=rims.bikedetail&id=12

Compared to the Rhyno Lite XL's I have (550g), the XR 4.2d (400g) would save me 150g and the EX 5.1d (500g) would save me 50g per wheel. The XR 4.2d's would give me a big weight savings and a lower rotational inertia.

It doesn't look like you can buy the Industry Nine hubs, but what about CK or similar instead?

I also wonder how much the spokes make a difference...so if I went with the XR 4.2d rim and used the right spokes, if I would get a very light high strength wheel...

Thanks for sharing this, it is a great example wheelset. Seems to be what I am looking for, just hope I can maybe build the equivalent for less than $850!

Pat

[Yammer]

i just had a set of mavic 819's built up for my urban assault rig. lovin' em so far.

It looks like the 819's are 465g, and they stand up to urban?
What hubs are you using?
Also are these UST only?

Pat

[crux]

Also, is there a wheel building class anywhere? I need to learn wheels, it's so limiting to not have that skill!

Agreed.

Some may disagree, but don't think your going to gain much strength in the hub. One thing you will want is a strong drive mech. Normally would recommend Philwood for the strongest out there but after seeing two blown units would consider a King with Stainless freewheel or set of I9 with standard J bend spokes.

Spokes are a personal preference and several schools of thought for who actually makes the "best" spoke. Have always used DT with out any issues and currently experimenting with some Cx-rays but those are spendy.

Rims; I Have always been a big Mavic fan but after lacing up a few sets of DT hoops I am very pleased and would go with a model heavier than the 4.2D for an AM build.

Now for a ready to roll set of wheels Soupguy is right I9's are hard to beat.

[timmy]

It doesn't look like you can buy the Industry Nine hubs, but what about CK or similar instead?

You could go with the Hope ProII hubs and DT Swiss XR 4.2 rims and you would have really nice All Mountain Wheelset.

[gordanfreeman]

It looks like the 819's are 465g, and they stand up to urban?
What hubs are you using?
Also are these UST only?

Pat
as i said i just had them built up (only a few good rides so far, been on the bike for 2-3 weeks at most) so i can't personally attest to their ability to take damage. however, they were recommended to me by a mechanic/rider who just built himself a wheel with the same rim for use on his chameleon, which he uses for everything from light trials and urban assault to single track trail riding.

my rims are laced to Paul SS disc hubs, running hookworms with tubes (no rimstrip needed!) they replaced some old ditch witches that came stock on my p.2; i lost 1/2 lb. on the front wheel, more in the rear since i ditched the cassette going SS.

[tedsti]

I would say the DT 4.2D is a little light for AM. I would step up to the 5.1.

The Mavic 819 is UST and can be used with tubes as well. Their weight does not include the nipple cups which puts the real weight a little over 500 grams.

[Yammer]

Cool.
Right now I am considering Hope Pro 2 32-hole Hubs with DT Swiss EX 5.1d 32-hole Rims.

What about spokes?

Does DT Swiss make a good hub?

Thanks, Pat

[tedsti]

DT makes good hubs, but they will be a little more money than the Pro II and have slower engagement. One thing to note on the Pro II is that the rear hub is LOUD!!

As for spokes, DTcomps 14/15 would be a good choice. Brass nipples wouldn't be a bad idea if you are going to beat on the wheels.

If you are looking for a source for built wheels or a wheel build kit, try Mike Garcia at www.oddsandendos.com Give him a call and he will talk your ear off on what will work best for what you want the wheels to do.


Cool.
Right now I am considering Hope Pro 2 32-hole Hubs with DT Swiss EX 5.1d 32-hole Rims.

What about spokes?

Does DT Swiss make a good hub?

Thanks, Pat

[soupboy]

Agree with Ted on all counts. I have both high end DTs (440 FRs - same guts as the 240, only beefier) and Hope Pro IIs. The Pro IIs are the best value - bar none - in the upper-end hub category. They are really loud. My I9s are great too but come built-only unless you go with their "standard" hub.

DT makes good hubs, but they will be a little more money than the Pro II and have slower engagement. One thing to note on the Pro II is that the rear hub is LOUD!!

As for spokes, DTcomps 14/15 would be a good choice. Brass nipples wouldn't be a bad idea if you are going to beat on the wheels.

If you are looking for a source for built wheels or a wheel build kit, try Mike Garcia at www.oddsandendos.com (http://www.oddsandendos.com) Give him a call and he will talk your ear off on what will work best for what you want the wheels to do.

[Yammer]

Another thing I like about the Hope Pro II hub is that I can convert from QR to 20mm if I get a new fork in the future.

I kind of like loud hubs, so the noise is not a big deal to me.

Now what about that wheel building class?! Someone teach one, I'll sign up!

Pat

[Guest1]

Now what about that wheel building class?! Someone teach one, I'll sign up!

Pat

Can't teach just build, simple caveman I am.

[Yammer]

So once you decide on the components, how do you figure out the spoke lengths?
What specs do you need to determine this? Hub diameter, rim ID?

Also, are the drive-side spokes always shorter?

Thanks, Pat

[Yammer]

Just used the tool on DT's site.
Ran the calc for EX 5.1's and Hope Pro 2's

Did I set it up right?
I assumed that I wanted to build 3-cross wheels.

Pat

[tedsti]

So once you decide on the components, how do you figure out the spoke lengths?


I always use the DT Swiss spoke calculator www.dtswiss.com You are going to want 3x lacing for these wheels. You should be able to find most hubs and rims in there already.

[Yammer]

I made a spreadsheet and sourced all the parts for the Hope Pro 2 / DT 5.1 build, using DT Comp and Standard Brass spokes and nipples.

If all the website figures are right the wheelset would weigh 1922 grams (4.2 lbs) and cost $444 not including shipping.

Just as a comparison, I could get this custom wheelset from Speedgoat for $555. So about $111 for the wheel build labor.

Pat

[gordanfreeman]

$111 seems steep for labor on a wheel build, in my experience. def. a better deal to buy the parts and find someone to do it for you locally, if not yourself.

[Yammer]

$111 seems steep for labor on a wheel build, in my experience. def. a better deal to buy the parts and find someone to do it for you locally, if not yourself.

I want to do it myself, but am gunshy.
The last time I tried to true a rim was 1996, and I ended up "truing" it too far out of spec to be salvagable.

But I think I need to learn how. I may at least assemble, and if I get nervous, have a shop true them up.

Pat

[soupboy]

Well, I thought CKs were loud. Then I got I9s. Louder. Then Pro IIs - turn it to 11 loud.

I kind of like loud hubs, so the noise is not a big deal to me.

[stoneage]

Loud hubs save lives.

Also, are the drive-side spokes always shorter?
The cassette takes up some of the room on that side, unless of course you have a track bike or a single speed.

[manual63]

Sun Rhyno Lite Rims with some generic black spokes.

In the stronger rim market, Rhyno Lites are some of the lightest rims out there. I also like that they are wider, which gives better stability to the tire during corning and allows you to run big tires with a lower pressure. Honestly, I think people spend waaaay too much money on wheels. I would go Surly Hubs (I do run SS) and Rhyno Lites all the way.

[Yammer]

Has anyone tried or heard anything about

WTB SpeedDisc All Mountain Rim (2007)
Black 32h
http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif</td> <td>http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif</td> </tr> <tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> Pinned/sleeved joint and eyelet spoke holes </td></tr><tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> Safety Seal- 2 raised bumps on the interior of the rim that keep the tire's bead from being pulled away from the hook during heavy lateral loading </td></tr><tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> Drilled for presta valve </td></tr><tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> 26mm width </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif</td></tr> </tbody></table> 475 grams

[soupboy]

For the money, I've had much better luck with WTB Dual Duty FR rims available in both 26 and 29 formats. Similar price, weight, width but MUCH stiffer largely attributable to the deeper V-section and resultant short ERD. They're also disc specific so more material can be put into the right spots vs. supporting a rim-brake sidewall. The WTB pre-built wheelset sometimes use these rims depending on flavor but I'd double check with WTB directly. Personally, I think any 475g rim is probably too light for the riding you describe yourself enjoying.

Rynos are a dieing breed (literally and literally). I think Sun has been running those rims on the same dies/extrusion equipment for so long that the the QC has absolutely gone to shyte.

and Rhyno Lites all the way.

[crux]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif</td> <td>http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif</td> </tr> <tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> Pinned/sleeved joint and eyelet spoke holes </td></tr><tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> Safety Seal- 2 raised bumps on the interior of the rim that keep the tire's bead from being pulled away from the hook during heavy lateral loading </td></tr><tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> Drilled for presta valve </td></tr><tr><td style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-size: 9px; padding-top: 2px;" valign="top">•</td><td valign="top"> 26mm width </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">http://www.speedgoat.com/images/spacer.gif</td></tr> </tbody></table> 475 grams

Weight sure you don't want it to be a boat anchor, but to light can also hinder the ride quality. I use to be a weight weenie, but noticed that the XC race bike I built rode better with some stouter parts on it. Now I have a set of pinned and sleeved rims and they work, but have been much happier with welded options out there. Just one guys opinion.