Murphy Discussions (Various Topics) [Archive] - Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists Discussion Forums

Shorty

05-26-2007, 04:57 PM

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss what people think of the new trail... and what is planned in the future.

Some have gotten out to ride it, here are their comments:

Ice is cold.

Fire is hot.

Murphy is awesome.

I did my first ever lap this morning at 10:30 and was unsurprised at my thorough enjoyment of it.

The pleasant surprise was the expert loop which I had expected to be nothing but one obstacle after another like Leb. Instead it's got a lot more spartan use of obstacles. I didn't ride all of them and several of the big rock obstacles caught me by surprise due to being positioned right around a tight corner. Due to the sheer length of the trail I couldn't imagine how tired I'd get going through that section with an "obstacle density" similar to Leb's.

It's nice that the challenge in the expert section is not just obstacles but a lot of good, hard hill climbing and just plain old length. This is one big trail! I had aspirations of a second lap and I might have done it had the rain not started up. But, another go at it would have broken me pretty well, I think. :)

I can certainly tell the trail's got some tweaks to do in a few places. Tire tracks were going across the outslope on some of the grade reversal bench cuts here and there and a few spots seem destined to be braking bump downhills. But, it's nice to know that MORC's got the volunteer power to go in over this next year and touch up places like that.

I'd say the flavor of Murphy is quasi-epic. It's no 100 mile Maah Daah Hey but it's certainly the longest metro trail so far and the length feels genuine. There's no repeating of any loops or sections to get in a long lap like at Leb. You do 10 miles on 100% unique trail and there's something satisfying about that.

I too enjoy the way its without obstacles (believe it or not) I think there were only 3 obstacles you *had* to go over - the filter, a big log, and a huge rock ride. (I actually could have gone without the log and rock) Sometimes its just good to get out there and ride without having to concentrate as much. The length was the best part. I think in the fall the views are going to be incredible out there.

Shorty

05-26-2007, 05:04 PM

On the topic of features... there will be more added over the next few seasons.

The vast majority of these features will be optional and they'll be off the main line of the trail.

Exceptions will be one or two rock gardens, some rollable jumps planned for the big prairie, and a few berms that are needed to prevent erosion.

waitabit

05-26-2007, 05:49 PM

Got to the parking lot at about 8:15 am, 3 other guys there that I ended up riding with, Terry, (who I know from Leb.)Kyle?, and Gary?thanx for the tube and the Co2 cartridge guys, hope you got the one I left on your bumper, and I put your pump in you truck Terry, Thanx.

Anyway, trail is awesome, I found it strange that you cross the road now, I was ready to go the old way.

Found the trail to be similiar to Levis/Trow, lots of swoopy singletrack going up and down for a long time, had a blast, the stepdown over the ravine is cool, and the easy to middle to advanced is awesome since I didnt have it in me to do another full lap I did the intermediate once more and it was a great workout!The trail is very well built as there was absolutely no puddles and like everyone else has been saying, once the trail gets packed in you'll be able to fly!!Many thanx to everyone involved.:kiss:

stoneage

05-26-2007, 05:55 PM

I am hoping for more technical features, and am glad there are plans for some. I ran 2-1 on the single and had no problems anywhere. I had hoped for some climbing, but was able to sit for everything. 3RPD probably wanted something user friendly like Wirth, so that is to be expected. A lot of the terrain actually reminded me of the Farm, except less dropping and climbing. Woods into the prairie and back into the woods. I liked the length. You can ride 2 laps and not get bored like 6 at Wirth. Leb has a lot more excitement, but I'm sure they will be hauling a few bodies out of M-H after the trail stiffens up and the speed increases. It probably won't be a destination for me yet, until it gets more technical, but it is an OK place for a recovery or social ride. I'll probably take a group out there for our 'Epic' this year when we hit all of the trails. Hopefully 3RPD can be talked into some real elevation changes in the future. They certainly have the terrain for it.
Favorite trails:
Leb
Wirth
TO
M-H

Trevize1138

05-26-2007, 07:04 PM

Yeah, this place will be really fast once it firms up and people get more familiar with it! The design is about perfect for that. Bravo, trail designers!

John, your right about variety in the MORC system of trails. I think Leb's a great trail and the obstacles do flow very nicely. I was thinking today that the main complaint about Leb may strictly be aesthetic :). It just sorta looks like the obstacles are "thrown in there" without much thought even though riding them helps it all make sense.

One more great thing I like about Murphy: the parking lot! I had a great time this morning just kicking back in the bus after a loop with a Cliff bar and enjoying the chirping birds. Talk about your ideal post-ride hangout spot!

gopherhockey

05-26-2007, 07:15 PM

Second day of being open, second day of riding. 100% more fun today as the trail is packing in nicely. Only major complaint I had was that I hit every F#)$ red light on my way over there and back.... going to have to find a different route other than McAndrews.

Murphy is fun, awesome, different, and can only get better. This trail just enhances all our others... we are all truely lucky to have so many great places to ride.

My favorite part of Murphy so far: the real tight steep singletrack near the end of the expert section (around 85 I think).

Least favorite: The rock ride between 70 and 71. I see a major endo into the bank on the other side in my near future. I hope that one sees a ride-around someday. (yea, I'm a weenie... )

BTW: I re-read the sign at the entrance - I like how it reads that hikers should yeild to bikers by stepping off the trail... :D http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4261&limit=recent

Shorty

05-26-2007, 07:24 PM

I re-read the sign at the entrance - I like how it reads that hikers should yeild to bikers by stepping off the trail... :D

Ditto. I also like their short description of sustainable trail design and why it is important to stay off the trail when it is wet.

dave t

05-26-2007, 07:37 PM

First, I must say great job to all the designers and builders. Awesome trail that is like a blend of Lebanon and Mammoth without the stunts.
Like others have said, I also was thinking how fun the trail was without a ton of "features". I didn't even notice several semi-hidden ones on my first lap but got them on lap two. Maybe they aren't even intentionally obstacles. The big rock to the left coming out of the grass (not the pile you have to do) has a bit of a Jan's rock feel and there is a big log with the end trimmed off for a nice hop over that cuts the corner a bit. The big log ride is really cool too with the turn and flat top.

I did notice a couple corners around trees that could use a bit of pinning or the trail moved out a little. Also found two turns that caught me off guard with more speed than I should have had. I kept it on the trail but the rear end did a bit of skidding. Sorry. I like them but hope they don't get chewed all up before we learn to anticipate them. One is a switchback in the woods and the other a hard right hander out in the grass. Other than those, I really thought there wouldn't be much to induce braking bumps.

As for elevation changes, there are plenty of places that you are obviously going uphill for quite a while but not really any that would be called gruelling climbs. Personally, I like being fooled into gaining altitude rather than grinding out a climb so, nice job!
I also really like the swoopy switch back style that has lots of turns without feeling like you are just going back and forth through the woods yet still in no real hurry to get any place either.
I also noticed there are some great trees out there. Huge oaks as big around as any of the cottonwoods by the river! These trees have limbs that would be a nice tree by themselves. I saw tons of poison ivy too so stay on the trail and try not to crash.

One thing I don't think the trail delivered on was the "Murphy feel" or "spirit" that was mentioned a few times. Maybe after it packs in there will be some roller-coaster out there but to me Murphy always meant suffer through one nasty climb then stuff it in the big ring and see how close to 50 mph you could get. The answer, really close, but I know that isn't many peoples style. New Murphy is great, better overall than the old trail, but I for one will miss the flat out speed.

Shorty

05-26-2007, 07:41 PM

Thanks for the comments Dave, I'm sure others feel the same way. I'll address a couple:

Maybe they aren't even intentionally obstacles. The big rock to the left coming out of the grass (not the pile you have to do) has a bit of a Jan's rock feel and there is a big log with the end trimmed off for a nice hop over that cuts the corner a bit. The big log ride is really cool too with the turn and flat top.

They're hidden due to the lack of riders and the spring growth.

They were intentional. :D

gopherhockey

05-26-2007, 07:43 PM

I'm sure 3RPD did some elevation maps along with their excellent GPS maps and hopefully we can get some of those.

I did my own today and will post it up later on... realizing its probably not 100% accurate due to the tree cover, it should be close enough to get the idea.

I got about 650' of climb total for the whole trail... I'll verify that later on. It is definitely gradual without much burn at all to them. I too wonder if this will change when the trail packs in more and the speeds rise a bit.

I'll post up my chart in a bit...

Shorty

05-26-2007, 07:46 PM

I did notice a couple corners around trees that could use a bit of pinning or the trail moved out a little. Also found two turns that caught me off guard with more speed than I should have had. I kept it on the trail but the rear end did a bit of skidding. Sorry. I like them but hope they don't get chewed all up before we learn to anticipate them. One is a switchback in the woods and the other a hard right hander out in the grass. Other than those, I really thought there wouldn't be much to induce braking bumps.

There are qiute a few places where the contractor cut things too sharp... we'll be fixing those over the next few weeks.

Ths double, downhill swithback in the woods and a couple turns in the prairies will be getting dirt and/or rock berms.

Shorty

05-26-2007, 07:56 PM

One thing I don't think the trail delivered on was the "Murphy feel" or "spirit" that was mentioned a few times. Maybe after it packs in there will be some roller-coaster out there but to me Murphy always meant suffer through one nasty climb then stuff it in the big ring and see how close to 50 mph you could get. The answer, really close, but I know that isn't many peoples style. New Murphy is great, better overall than the old trail, but I for one will miss the flat out speed.

Three Rivers wasn't very interested in 40mph top speeds. I too will miss the speed (and lack thereof when going up) of the old trail. The design must be sustainable, and the designers worked hard to keep the 'feel' while still getting a good amount of mileage and making sure it sheds water.

Once it packs in there should be a few rollercoaster sections.

I don't expect riders that loved the old Murphy to love the new Murphy. But if they also like singletrack, they should still enjoy themselves.

Chuck

05-26-2007, 08:09 PM

Murphy is going to be great in a season or two once there are some added features but I am happy to see a trail that is close(at) the 10 mile mark so you don't have to do lap after lap to get a decent ride in.

One thing to watch...ticks. I pulled 4 off of me in the parking lot and found another when I got home.

I was the first car in the lot this morning and when I left I think there were about 9. I think this is going to be a busy trail.

Nice work MORC!!! We really do have the best trails of any urban area.

Shorty

05-26-2007, 08:12 PM

Nice work MORC!!! We really do have the best trails of any urban area.

Thanks for the support.

And thank your boss for stepping up to help pay for it!!!

GettingFaster

05-26-2007, 08:38 PM

I don't expect riders that loved the old Murphy to love the new Murphy. But if they also like singletrack, they should still enjoy themselves.

I disliked the old Murphy, but love the new one! :D The trail is truly unique, with both obstacles and length unlike anywhere else in metro area. It definitely poses some challenges, as most obstacles are located in spots that you really won't expect. As the more work is done on the trail, it will only get better and better.

Thank you to everyone that helped get this trail built!

stoneage

05-26-2007, 08:41 PM

about 610' of climb total for the whole trail...
Wow!! I hope your GPS is wrong. Buck Hill has 310' in a quarter mile (unsustainable I know), but that's incredibly low for an 11 mile trail. The first climb at the 'old' Murphy was about 150' by itself. We really should work on 3RPD to allow longer (harder climbs) somehow. We don't have any trail in the system that allows for any sustained climbing and M-H is a spot that could handle it. I know we aren't near the IMBA limit on a majority of the trail. 11X5280=58080÷2=29040(descent) 305'÷29040=.0105% climbing for the whole trail. A touch more than 1% unless my figures are wrong. We deserve more than that even at our advanced age. Like I said; I hope your calculations are wrong.

ryno lite

05-26-2007, 09:02 PM

Riding today was much better than yesterday. Less slick and more packed in. I was finally able to ride at a more normal speed and because of this I got to enjoy the flow so much more than yesterday. I like the length, but as the trail rides in, I'm sure it will feel shorter. I really like the scenery, animals present, and the combination of forest and prairie. There are some great views out there. I really like it!

As has been said earlier, we need to pin a few of those turns, maybe get a few burms in place, and cut a few trees out of the intermediate trail heading out. As we ride it more, tweak the trail, and add a few features and improvements, it will only get better and better!

SPR

05-26-2007, 09:42 PM

No rain in the near forecast. I'm planning a Sunday Morning ride, how early does the trail open? Is 8 - 9am to early?
Thanks

Shorty

05-26-2007, 09:57 PM

The park hours are 5am to sunset.

bakkeb

05-26-2007, 10:32 PM

Rode it today, saw some MORC'rs at the parking lot. Other than that....I had the trail to myself. Absolutely loved the trail. Great work and well worth the wait. It reminds me of Hillside, Salem, Leb, Theo, River Bottoms and Terrace all at different times of the trail. A true testament of the diversity of the trails in the metro. I also think it's f-ing cool that I have five completely different trails within 20 minutes of my house. I can't wait to go hit it again.:etard:

high life

05-26-2007, 11:05 PM

stoneage

05-26-2007, 11:42 PM

animals present
Saw turkeys and a pileated woodpecker and heard meadowlarks. Maybe it will be a nature trail.

Burke

05-26-2007, 11:52 PM

We really should work on 3RPD to allow longer (harder climbs) somehow. We don't have any trail in the system that allows for any sustained climbing and M-H is a spot that could handle it. I know we aren't near the IMBA limit on a majority of the trail. 11X5280=58080÷2=29040(descent) 305'÷29040=.0105% climbing for the whole trail. A touch more than 1% unless my figures are wrong. We deserve more than that even at our advanced age. Like I said; I hope your calculations are wrong.
yawn

I had anticipated a two day moratorium before the love would start pouring in. It was more like 29 hours.

Scott

stoneage

05-27-2007, 12:05 AM

That's the feeling I had. Thanks John for posting those. I went to Terrace after M-H to get a workout. ;) I wonder what Wirth is? 16'? We aren't blessed with elevation in the heartland. Too spoiled after all the trips out west I guess.
Leb-682' Distance: 7.25 miles
M-H-668' Distance: 9.02 miles

gopherhockey

05-27-2007, 12:08 AM

Saw turkeys and a pileated woodpecker and heard meadowlarks. Maybe it will be a nature trail.

I saw a few cardinals, which was pretty cool... Ted and I almost got run over by a deer moving at light speed down hill - I've never seen a deer move that fast... its good nobody got hit by it.

MisterClaw

05-27-2007, 12:30 AM

One thing to watch...ticks. I pulled 4 off of me in the parking lot and found another when I got home.
.
I pulled two of the little buggers of me after riding today. At least they were wood ticks and not deer ticks.

ryno lite

05-27-2007, 12:31 AM

I saw a few cardinals, which was pretty cool... Ted and I almost got run over by a deer moving at light speed down hill - I've never seen a deer move that fast... its good nobody got hit by it.

Scared up one yesterday and it was moving fast and leaping really high, it was pretty cool. I'd love to do a solo night ride out there to see what I could scare up, but I know that won't be happening!

ryno lite

05-27-2007, 12:34 AM

Rode two laps today, each in about an hour at a liesurely pace. Despite being a brand new trail, it was in excellent shape! I loved the longer distance per lap than most of the other trails in the area.

Good to meet you on the trail today. Nice pace. You guys have plenty of sunlight for the second lap?

gopherhockey

05-27-2007, 12:39 AM

Scared up one yesterday and it was moving fast and leaping really high, it was pretty cool. I'd love to do a solo night ride out there to see what I could scare up, but I know that won't be happening!

I smell horses out there at one point on the trail.. must be the wind or we must get lose to some horse trails. Didn't see any tracks which was nice - unlike last fall when they were digging the trail up. I have a feeling 3RPD is going to keep that under control no problem.

Speaking of deer, I wonder if there is a hunting season at Murphy like there is at Leb. Hopefully its the same deal - only closed a few hours out of a few days in the fall.

ryno lite

05-27-2007, 01:09 AM

I smell horses out there at one point on the trail.. must be the wind or we must get lose to some horse trails. Didn't see any tracks which was nice - unlike last fall when they were digging the trail up. I have a feeling 3RPD is going to keep that under control no problem.

Speaking of deer, I wonder if there is a hunting season at Murphy like there is at Leb. Hopefully its the same deal - only closed a few hours out of a few days in the fall.

I haven't smelled that out there. Lots of neighbors with horses out there. They have some sort of deer season out there, but I don't know the details.

Shorty

05-27-2007, 03:11 AM

Speaking of deer, I wonder if there is a hunting season at Murphy like there is at Leb. Hopefully its the same deal - only closed a few hours out of a few days in the fall.

There is a three day archery hunt November 9th-11th (Friday-Sunday).

The entire park will be closed for that time period.

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 08:24 AM

Least favorite: The rock ride between 70 and 71...

OOh, actually, that's another thing I really like: 1/4 mile markers! :banana:

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 08:32 AM

Three Rivers wasn't very interested in 40mph top speeds. I too will miss the speed (and lack thereof when going up) of the old trail. The design must be sustainable, and the designers worked hard to keep the 'feel' while still getting a good amount of mileage and making sure it sheds water.

Once it packs in there should be a few rollercoaster sections.

I don't expect riders that loved the old Murphy to love the new Murphy. But if they also like singletrack, they should still enjoy themselves.

I could tell the design lent itself to that roller coaster feel. On my 2nd loop I was familiar enough with the trail that I was able to let go and cruise the downhills faster. That's when I knew you'd get plenty of speed out there once it sets up and folks get familiar with it. :)

As for loving Old Murphy vs. New Murphy, I think of it as still being in love with your abusive, manipulative ex-girlfriend who slept around on you and cheated out out of thousands of dollars.

You new girlfriend or wife is a better woman all around and you're a lucky SOB to have her. But, you still foolishly find yourself saying "There was that one thing my ex did in bed that was awesome!" Yeah, well, a one-trick pony doesn't make a whole show, buddy ;).

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 08:36 AM

Wow!! I hope your GPS is wrong. Buck Hill has 310' in a quarter mile (unsustainable I know), but that's incredibly low for an 11 mile trail. The first climb at the 'old' Murphy was about 150' by itself. We really should work on 3RPD to allow longer (harder climbs) somehow. We don't have any trail in the system that allows for any sustained climbing and M-H is a spot that could handle it. I know we aren't near the IMBA limit on a majority of the trail. 11X5280=58080÷2=29040(descent) 305'÷29040=.0105% climbing for the whole trail. A touch more than 1% unless my figures are wrong. We deserve more than that even at our advanced age. Like I said; I hope your calculations are wrong.

:eyeroll: Oh come ON, Bill! :eyeroll:

Can't you just shut up and enjoy it? ;)

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 08:37 AM

I pulled two of the little buggers of me after riding today. At least they were wood ticks and not deer ticks.

Don't sit in the grass to tighten the bolts on your kleets ;).

gopherhockey

05-27-2007, 08:45 AM

[quote=Trevize1138;215853
As for loving Old Murphy vs. New Murphy, I think of it as still being in love with your abusive, manipulative ex-girlfriend who slept around on you and cheated out out of thousands of dollars.

You new girlfriend or wife is a better woman all around and you're a lucky SOB to have her. But, you still foolishly find yourself saying "There was that one thing my ex did in bed that was awesome!" Yeah, well, a one-trick pony doesn't make a whole show, buddy ;).[/quote]

:crazy2: Chris, you have a screw loose somewhere... ;)

Speaking of the old Murphy, is it going to be closed this year or is it still hanging around like the ol' chubby side-action that just won't go away... ?

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 09:05 AM

:crazy2: Chris, you have a screw loose somewhere... ;)

Speaking of the old Murphy, is it going to be closed this year or is it still hanging around like the ol' chubby side-action that just won't go away... ?

You know, the analogy just has so many possibilities ;). I mean, new Murphy's better like a better woman: nice curves, low-maintenance, natural beauty that doesn't need a bunch of cheap features tacked-on to look good ... :etard:

gopherhockey

05-27-2007, 09:09 AM

You know, the analogy just has so many possibilities ;). I mean, new Murphy's better like a better woman: nice curves, low-maintenance, natural beauty that doesn't need a bunch of cheap features tacked-on to look good ... :etard:

So much for doing the Monday ride with you Chris "can't say anything without putting Leb down" D ... :p

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 09:10 AM

So much for doing the Monday ride with you Chris "can't say anything without putting Leb down" D ... :p

See, you just assumed I was talking about Leb. Who's the one thinking Leb needs "a bunch of cheap features tacked-on to look good" now? :crazy:

Mike P

05-27-2007, 10:09 AM

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 10:22 AM

Is this trail going to stay free to ride? I know we need a trail tag for our horse($30 a year) to ride the horse trails. I wouldn't mind paying for a trail tag if 3RPD added MTB trails at more of thier locations.

This is cool, my wife is heading to the horse trail and I'm jumping out at the bike trail.

All the other MORC trails in the cities are free to ride and I haven't heard anything about fees for this trail.

The funding for a lot of this comes from MORC membership fees, other fundraising events and I believe grants (specifically for Murphy). So, you don't have to pay for the trail but if you become a MORC member it certainly won't hurt ;).

stoneage

05-27-2007, 10:36 AM

:eyeroll: Oh come ON, Bill! :eyeroll:
Can't you just shut up and enjoy it? ;)
I like the trail. It just wasn't what I expected. I was just under the assumption that it was going to be harder than other metro trails. 3RPD seemed to indicate that they would keep the 'flavor' of the old Murphy, and I sensed that it would have more elevation change, so that came as a surprise to me. I enjoyed the 'natural' feel of being lost in the woods, but I kept looking down into the ravines wishing I was climbing up and scooting down into them. That's OK, I'm sure it will spread the trail traffic out a little, and it will be a great place for a TT, because it is flat out without any obstacles. It will be great for the KKrew Epic this year, because we won't have to go to Crosby to get 100 miles in. I'm planning a route right now.

gopherhockey

05-27-2007, 11:43 AM

I like the trail. It just wasn't what I expected.

There was a lot of talk about keeping with the theme of the old Murphy early on. I think it was a good idea at the time but probably not good for that kind of expectation to be set before we really knew how the trail would turn out.

I actually was quite surprised when I first rode it last fall compared to how it looked like it would ride when we walked it every week. You never really know until you get a bike on the trail.

I think the feel of Murphy is just now being truely discovered and we can take that positive feedback when promoting it. I'm already thinking up some signs to put at Leb. "Hey everyone, park somewhere else for a change..." (ok, maybe not exactly... hehe)

Can't you just shut up and enjoy it? ;)

Chris ought to talk...

stoneage

05-27-2007, 11:51 AM

Chris ought to talk...
It's hard to talk when you're snarling.

SPR

05-27-2007, 12:01 PM

Just returned from a ride. Great job Pete and others involved. I really enjoyed this trail. I won't be like others here and try to compare it to other metro trails, I see no point. I rode the trail for what it offered and how you utilized the landscape to create a refreshing challenge. It was a very peaceful ride that offered nice scenery changes. Saw some deer and huge turkeys (No not John, Ted and Bob). I also realized I missed the log ride, where is it located?Thanks again and good job.

Shorty

05-27-2007, 12:08 PM

Speaking of the old Murphy, is it going to be closed this year or is it still hanging around

The old doubletrack trail we used to mountain bike on is closed, and will not re-open to mountain bike use.

I'm not sure if they're even keeping it open for hiking or dog walking.

Shorty

05-27-2007, 12:09 PM

waitabit

05-27-2007, 12:10 PM

stoneage

05-27-2007, 12:11 PM

not sure if they're even keeping it open
I thought I heard that they are just closing it to all activity, because of threatened plant and animal species.

Shorty

05-27-2007, 12:42 PM

Is this trail going to stay free to ride? I know we need a trail tag for our horse($30 a year) to ride the horse trails. I wouldn't mind paying for a trail tag if 3RPD added MTB trails at more of thier locations.

There is a possibility of user fees in the future... just to warn everyone. Three Rivers is moving toward user fees - which is why you saw the parking fees go away in the last couple years.

There are some within the park district that want user fees for the singletrack trail, but most of the Three Rivers personnel that I've talked to feel the trail should be free. While it is true that equestrians pay and mountain bikers don't, the horse clubs (as far as I'm aware) do not volunteer to maintain the trails and did not contribute money to the construction of the horse trails. This is a major reason I don't see Three Rivers charging user fees for mountain bikers.

There are a few reasons I feel they won't go to fees for the mtb trail:

1. I was told fees are based on how much the amenity (trail, beach, playground, etc.) costs to maintain... not construction costs. On this basis, I would guess Three Rivers would opt for no fees since MORC is donating thousands of dollars worth of labor to help maintain the trail - greatly reducing their costs.

2. Fees would greatly influence usage since there are so many other trails in the area that are free.

3. The trail is multi-use. Mountain bikers would be paying to ride their bikes on the trail, but hikers and trail runners would use the trail free. I'd guess focusing on one user group for using a multi-use trail wouldn't be a very popular move.

MORC membership money will not go to maintenance of the trail... MORC helped financially during the construction of the trail. MORC's contribution from here on out will be with it's back... volunteer labor to build features and help maintain the trail.

MORC will continue to work very hard toward keeping this opportunity free.

A lot of this will get re-evaluated if Three Rivers develops more mountain bike trails within other parks...

It will be more likely that fees will be charged if there are multiple trails to ride within Three Rivers' parks... I could see a mtb pass created (similar to a ski pass - you buy it and you can ride at any of their mtb trails).

Thanks!

Bighit

05-27-2007, 02:41 PM

I have not been to the trail yet but I'm sure it rocks. Sound like it's very different from the old Murphy. Thank god. That was the worst excuse for a Mt. bike trail ever. It served to keep the off roadies off real trails though (for only a month). Just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work, don't let us haters get to you.:)

Chug

05-27-2007, 03:37 PM

Does it cost to park in the lot?

gopherhockey

05-27-2007, 03:39 PM

Does it cost to park in the lot?

nope... its been free for a few years I believe.

Shorty

05-27-2007, 07:32 PM

nope... its been free for a few years I believe.

There is still a pay box there as you drive into the lot... but it is for daily ski passes.

You can ignore it - unless you're skiing. :crazy:

Shorty

05-27-2007, 07:34 PM

Wow! What a difference 48 hours makes!!!

The trail has really compacted nicely in the last two days. Even spots that looked like they were going to get really bad fast (mostly on the intermediate return) have become more stable.

The intermediate return will likely be the first trailwork project.

I had fun on Friday, but today was a much better ride. It looked like a lot of other people were having a good time out there too.

Thirty cars in the lot when I started my ride... I'd guess the majority of them were bikers. It'll be interesting to see if next weekend is busier once all the people come back from out of town (suckers).

;)

Trevize1138

05-27-2007, 07:38 PM

Wow! What a difference 48 hours makes!!!

Hell, this trail firmed up a whole lot after just 5 hours yesterday! :banana:

stoneage

05-27-2007, 08:10 PM

We were there around 1 yesterday and only 2 people were in the lot. One guys SB8's were pretty dirty, but not overly. After the second lap, my tires were perfectly clean. I may take some U kids over there tomorrow because they haven't seen it and they need a ride.

ninjanick

05-27-2007, 11:17 PM

I hit it today around 11 with zaskar who came up from rochester. We both really enjoyed it. It was nice to get near ten miles in one lap. I also really liked the in and out of the woods. I'm looking forward to it packing in more, and the features to come. Great job by all who have worked so hard to make it happen, thanks.

ryno lite

05-28-2007, 01:04 AM

After packing it for two days straight with Friday being especially hard, I had to go to Leb tonight for a break on packed in trails. Leb sure seemed easy after plodding thru the unpacked Murph trails. I'll try to ride Murph again tommorrow.

The Goat Killer

05-28-2007, 02:31 PM

I'm disappointed...........

No sustained climbs. :thumbsdown:

The Goat Killer

05-28-2007, 03:09 PM

Yup, the "new" trail has been assigned to the "flat" area of the park. What's Up With That?

xhawkinson

05-28-2007, 03:32 PM

I would like to see a couple more long steep inclines added to the Expert loop, but overall the track has some great potential after the soil is all packed in. Great job Pete!

Shorty

05-28-2007, 03:56 PM

I'm disappointed...........

No sustained climbs. :thumbsdown:

We didn't expect to please everyone. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.

Shorty

05-28-2007, 03:59 PM

I would like to see a couple more long steep inclines added to the Expert loop, but overall the track has some great potential after the soil is all packed in. Great job Pete!

The trail alignment probably won't change much... I doubt it will be like Leb where little sections of trail are added evey year or so.

The only alignment changes planned are very small and will be done to solve erosion issues.

Trevize1138

05-28-2007, 04:01 PM

I finally started hitting "redline" on my 2:1 singlespeed today. This trail's getting faster by the hour!

The Goat Killer

05-28-2007, 05:20 PM

I still had fun.

It will be a really cool trail over time.

I know we can run em straight up the fall lines anymore.
Thanks for the new trail. :banana:

timmy

05-28-2007, 05:41 PM

Rode Murphy today and all I can say is what a great trail!!!

waitabit

05-28-2007, 05:58 PM

Yup, the "new" trail has been assigned to the "flat" area of the park. What's Up With That?
If you want to only ride from August 1st to Oct. 31st Im sure we could change it back for you.:confused:

Shorty

05-28-2007, 06:35 PM

I know we can run em straight up the fall lines anymore.

You meant to type can't, right?

gopherhockey

05-28-2007, 06:43 PM

I still had fun.

It will be a really cool trail over time.

I know we [can't] run em straight up the fall lines anymore.
Thanks for the new trail. :banana:

This post is way more constructive than just throwing out the bad stuff. Hey, we're Minnesota nice around here - if we complain its our duty to throw in a few things that we liked to sugar coat it a little... ;)

I think any dislikes people have will be quickly overcome once expectations are set and people come to know the trail. Then we can turn any feedback into something we use to address our next big 10 mile+ project :D

Shorty

05-28-2007, 06:46 PM

Then we can turn any feedback into something we use to address our next big 10 mile+ project :D

Exactly!!!

seberly

05-28-2007, 07:04 PM

Very fun trail! When does the rest of it open? Appears there is another mile or so on the advanced loop? The last part of the advanced loop with the bench cut on the steep side hill is fun!

Shorty

05-28-2007, 07:53 PM

Very fun trail! When does the rest of it open? Appears there is another mile or so on the advanced loop? The last part of the advanced loop with the bench cut on the steep side hill is fun!

Glad you liked it!

The small section of advanced trail that is closed for Nesting Wildlife (by the log ride) is under 0.6 of a mile long. It should open August 1st, but last I heard the exact date is still to be determined.

jeffgude

05-28-2007, 08:14 PM

I made it out for my first lap today. I really like the open and flowing trail. The new Murphy seems to defy physics - you seem to spend a lot more time descending than climbing. The step bridge definitely looks intimidating, but should be rideable by most. The last drop down on to dirt is a little farther than the other steps, so be prepared. Overall, a terrific trail, thanks to everyone who worked on this project.

The Goat Killer

05-28-2007, 08:18 PM

If you want to only ride from August 1st to Oct. 31st Im sure we could change it back for you.:confused:

The old trail had it's day. Oh, the memories....... :)

gopherhockey

05-28-2007, 08:20 PM

The new Murphy seems to defy physics - you seem to spend a lot more time descending than climbing.

Thats funny, I was thinking the exact same thing today when riding! I felt like I was always going down hill and yet never really working to get back up again.

seberly

05-28-2007, 08:30 PM

....The step bridge definitely looks intimidating, but should be rideable by most. The last drop down on to dirt is a little farther than the other steps, so be prepared.....

I expect a lot of get offs and subsequent "incidents" from this obstacle. Newbies may go too slow and will drop down the step(s) and be off balance, over correct and......or maybe not.

smeulebroe

05-28-2007, 09:13 PM

I was wondering if there could be signs up along the gravel road - Bike Crossing, Trail Crossing

gopherhockey

05-28-2007, 09:19 PM

I was wondering if there could be signs up along the gravel road - Bike Crossing, Trail Crossing

I remember there being mention of that... I am guessing they are planned. Pete?

Maybe "slow children at play" is more appropriate? ;)

Shorty

05-28-2007, 09:45 PM

I was wondering if there could be signs up along the gravel road - Bike Crossing, Trail Crossing

Three Rivers has notified Scott County about it - from the sounds of it, it is their responsibility. If they don't do anything, there was talk of signing it for the bikers.

.

Shorty

05-28-2007, 09:54 PM

I expect a lot of get offs and subsequent "incidents" from this obstacle. Newbies may go too slow and will drop down the step(s) and be off balance, over correct and......or maybe not.

It is advanced trail, and the step bridge fits that description. The qualifier at the beginning of the advanced loop should effectively communicate that this is a harder loop. If a newbie needs to walk over the advanced qualifier, they will likely want to walk down the step bridge.

There is also more signage on the way - not much more, but there will be signs at the beginning of the intermediate and advanced loops describing the loop.

A "feature ahead" Carsonite sign may also be installed before the step bridge.

Don Youngdahl

05-28-2007, 09:59 PM

:)Great trail, great job, and it looks to be very sustainable. Also notable was the welcome scarcity of man-made obstacles. I won't talk about how long it took me to do two loops.;)

stoneage

05-28-2007, 10:02 PM

our next big 10 mile+ project
It's too bad that Elm Creek and M-H couldn't have been reversed. EC would have been a perfect place to construct a trail like the one at M-H, and then after MORC 'proved' itself, a more vertical technical trail could have been built at M-H. Are there any plans to build in any other 3RPD facility other than EC? The only one I know of is Baker and that doesn't have the elevation of M-H, although there are some hills and it's big. 3RPD has a feedback email here: feedback@threeriversparkdistrict.org

gopherhockey

05-28-2007, 10:04 PM

If a newbie needs to walk over the advanced qualifier, they will likely want to walk down the step bridge.

I'm no obstacle riding expert.. but the way I see it, a person should keep momentum when going down the step bridge. What I do is hold enough speed and just let my front wheel drop on all the steps but the last one, where I try pick the whole bike up and land on both wheels.

I tried it today leaning forward slightly.. it was a scary (and somewhat stupid) experiment, but I wanted to know how stable it was. I don't think there is much fear of an OTB there unless someone has their front fork set up poorly or gets way out in front. Its wide enough to handle a little wandering... but would definitely be a scary drop. Then again I thought the log would, but Timmy made it look fairly tame when falling off in his video (see other thread) ;)

Shorty

05-28-2007, 10:22 PM

I won't talk about how long it took me to do two loops.;)

It took me about 3 hours on Friday!!

(but I was taking pics)

Shorty

05-28-2007, 10:25 PM

Its wide enough to handle a little wandering...

It is 2.5 feet wide, just like all the bridges and boardwalks... plenty wide IMO.

The exception is the really tall bridge (over 6' tall), which is 48 feet wide.

Shorty

05-28-2007, 10:27 PM

I tried it today leaning forward slightly.. it was a scary (and somewhat stupid) experiment...

Somewhat?? ;)

ryno lite

05-28-2007, 10:28 PM

I can't believe the change in just 4 days of riding! It's a whole new trail! It very hard to ride Friday, way better on Saturday and was great today! Thanks to everyone who is helping pack this trail in! I know it's such hard work! It was cool to see how much interest Three Rivers has in there new trail. I've seen Parks police on the roads and in the parking lot quite a bit this weekend. They actually had an officer take off on mtn bike patrol today. Great to see they are interested in patroling and protecting this trail and the trail users. Thumbs up to Three Rivers!

Trevize1138

05-28-2007, 10:49 PM

This post is way more constructive than just throwing out the bad stuff. Hey, we're Minnesota nice around here - if we complain its our duty to throw in a few things that we liked to sugar coat it a little... ;)

The fabled "Minnesota nice" has nothing to do with it. It's when I used to write fiction. I could always tell when someone knew nothing about literary criticism or true editing when their comments were "It was good ... some grammar and spelling errors but good!"

Yeah, thanks a lot. Real big help. You just told me slightly more than what MS Word's auto spelling and grammar checker already knew. :)

undsioux7

05-28-2007, 10:51 PM

Rode today and it was fun! Its nice that it feels like Theo (tight at times), Leb (flowy) and Mammoth (prairies and more raw) all rolled into one.

I felt like I was pulling weight the last 4 miles and found out my rear disk brake got tight somehow. I could barely spin the wheel 2 rotations before it stopped. It was challenging enough for me, I didn't need the added drag!!

Uncle Leo

05-29-2007, 09:38 AM

It is advanced trail, and the step bridge fits that description. The qualifier at the beginning of the advanced loop should effectively communicate that this is a harder loop. If a newbie needs to walk over the advanced qualifier, they will likely want to walk down the step bridge.

There is also more signage on the way - not much more, but there will be signs at the beginning of the intermediate and advanced loops describing the loop.

A "feature ahead" Carsonite sign may also be installed before the step bridge.

I'm a slow learner with obstacles (they always look more intimidating than they really are). I liked the step bridge because I was halfway across it before I even knew what was happening, so I didn't get a chance to psych myself out. (A "feature ahead" sign is probably a pretty good idea).

Love the trail!

RiverRat

05-29-2007, 11:27 AM

I thought the hard right around a blind corner into the pile of rocks was pretty sweet. Doesn't give you enough time to think about going over it, so you just end up having to go over it.

I suppose you could probably slam on the brakes and go over the bars when you hit the rock too, but that's not fun.

Great start to a new trail! Can't wait to see what else is on the way.

Ralph Smith

05-29-2007, 03:53 PM

stoneage

05-29-2007, 03:58 PM

trade-in of a Wild Thing for a Mad Mouse
Nice metaphor use.;)
I too believe there could have been more elevation change AND sustainability. Hopefully 3RPD will be open to suggestions.

Trevize1138

05-29-2007, 04:06 PM

There were mountain bike trails at Murphy before this weekend? :confused:

;)

Count me as someone very glad our sport is advancing beyond the days when we weren't taken seriously enough to have trails specifically designed for off-road cycling. The old Murphy was an XC ski trail first and foremost. Riding your bike on it during a two-month season didn't make it a "montain bike trail."

I ride 6 miles of asphault paths on my mountain bike to get to Theo but you don't see me calling the greenway a "mountain bike trail."

bigwheel

05-29-2007, 04:19 PM

I too believe there could have been more elevation change AND sustainability. Hopefully 3RPD will be open to suggestions.

All they need to do is make their single-track wide enough to bring in dump trucks full of class-5 every year, like they used to do at Leb and Murphy, and still do at Terrace Oaks.

Burke

05-29-2007, 04:20 PM

I don't know if this is the right thread, but the new Murphy single track seems like a trade-in of a Wild Thing for a Mad Mouse and it was a pretty poor bargain in my eyes.
The metro mountain bike community sold a big chunk of soul for 'sustainability'.
We appreciate hearing feedback, but Old Murphy, new Murphy is a false dichotomy.

3RPD wanted to close the XC ski trail due to wildlife and erosion issues. MORC lobbied for years to get a replacement trail because we were getting displaced.

The actual choice was no trail or the new trail. It's a pretty simple choice.

Trevize1138

05-29-2007, 04:22 PM

All they need to do is make their single-track wide enough to bring in dump trucks full of class-5 every year, like they used to do at Leb and Murphy, and still do at Terrace Oaks.

I've got it! We need to design 18-inch-wide dump trucks! :banana:

undsioux7

05-29-2007, 04:25 PM

I don't know if this is the right thread, but the new Murphy single track seems like a trade-in of a Wild Thing for a Mad Mouse and it was a pretty poor bargain in my eyes.
The metro mountain bike community sold a big chunk of soul for 'sustainability'.

Too bad you were sitting on the couch on your arse when all of the decisions were made.
A little too late for stupid comments like this to be affective don't you think?

stoneage

05-29-2007, 04:30 PM

Too bad you were sitting on the couch on your arse when all of the decisions were made.
A little too late for stupid comments like this to be affective don't you think?
Comments like that don't help either. I HATED the old Murphy trail. I would only go out there to race the TT. I just think we missed a great opportunity to add some vertical challenge in the only park in the area that could support it.

Ralph Smith

05-29-2007, 04:45 PM

Too bad you were sitting on the couch on your arse when all of the decisions were made.
A little too late for stupid comments like this to be affective don't you think?
Wow, did I hit a sore nerve there? there's no need to try to get personal.

Too late is right.
And too bad, too. Too bad the people pushing this project didn't solicit input from the riders that were using the trail.

Ralph Smith

05-29-2007, 04:50 PM

We appreciate hearing feedback, but Old Murphy, new Murphy is a false dichotomy.

3RPD wanted to close the XC ski trail due to wildlife and erosion issues. MORC lobbied for years to get a replacement trail because we were getting displaced.

The actual choice was no trail or the new trail. It's a pretty simple choice.

Interesting history there. ThreeRivers had publicly stated they had no intention to close this trail until after MORC got involved and suggested it as an option.

As far as the supposed maintenance cost arguments go, sure there were costs. But if you want to play, you gotta pay.

Trevize1138

05-29-2007, 04:53 PM

Wow, did I hit a sore nerve there? there's no need to try to get personal.

Many people in MORC volunteered a lot of time, money, sweat, sanity and chiropractic health to build Murphy. You post on a forum "it sucks" and then act all surprised that people are upset at you.

Here's the real kicker: you have just as much of a right to ride Murphy as do the volunteers that put so much of themselves into it. Look at all that they've done for you. What have you done?

soupboy

05-29-2007, 05:06 PM

I'm amped to ride the new Murph...will have to wait until this weekend.

Ralph Malph - take a powder. You've got no skin in the game. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone liked the old MH. I could re-create it on my spin bike and avoid the 50 mile round trip in my car. The old MH was not a "mountain bike" trail.

BIG THANKS to those that built it.

John Sandberg

05-29-2007, 05:11 PM

I just got back from riding the new trail for the first time.

Awesome!

THANK YOU to everyone who worked on this project. Clearly, a TON of thought and effort went into it. Again, THANKS.

As far as comparisons to the old trail... None. I live 10 minutes from Murphy. I will ride it more this summer than I have in all of the past six years combined.

As for the dork posts complaining about it... please ignore them. Obviously they didn't do squat on this or probably any other trail. People that actually work on and build trails understand the effort, which is why they (almost) never complain about others' efforts. Why anyone would complain about this trail on a forum frequented by the actual do-ers is mind boggling.

One more time: Awesome trail. Thanks to all who made it possible.

gopherhockey

05-29-2007, 05:13 PM

One more time: Awesome trail. Thanks to all who made it possible.

If a person is going to join up and post for the first time, this is the way to do it. :)

I'm not sure I've ever rewarded someone's first ever post with rep points, so this was maybe my first.

Thanks for your comments...

Trevize1138

05-29-2007, 05:20 PM

If a person is going to join up and post for the first time, this is the way to do it. :)

I'm not sure I've ever rewarded someone's first ever post with rep points, so this was maybe my first.

Thanks for your comments...

Dissenting opinions are welcome as well, but not when they come from an obviously flawed, misinformed point of view. That's not "opinion," that's a Gilda Radner-style rant against something that doesn't even exist: sax and violins on TV ... trading old Murphy for new Murphy ... to-may-to, to-mah-to ...

I'm just waiting for Ralph to say a sheepish "Oh ... nevermind ..." :cool:

bikingbruise

05-29-2007, 05:38 PM

I just got an email from morc saying "we miss you" so that should give you an indication of how long it's been since I've looked here. After looking at the review and photos, I take it Murphy is open year round?

I've been spending more time road biking (gasp) for my triathlons but really miss getting dirty, coming home with scrapes.

The Goat Killer

05-29-2007, 08:30 PM

The Goat Killer

05-29-2007, 08:32 PM

Shorty

05-29-2007, 10:42 PM

I know many riders are NOT happy with the MORC job at Murphy. They just ain't posting about it.

Again, we didn't expect to please everyone. Time will tell, but I'm guessing the new trail will be appreciated by more riders than the old trail.

Shorty

05-29-2007, 10:52 PM

Too bad the people pushing this project didn't solicit input from the riders that were using the trail.

Direct quotes from Three Rivers documents:

"Since 2004, 382 visitors to Murphy-Hanrehan Park Reserve have participated in three different visitor studies." "Visitors requested additional mountain biking trails, extended seasonal hours, and improved trail surfaces."

There were also threads on the MORC website devoted to the project (dating back to 2003) in which you could have voiced your thoughts, wishes, and desire.

Sorry if you were not involved in any of these opportunities for input.

Shorty

05-29-2007, 10:55 PM

Interesting history there. ThreeRivers had publicly stated they had no intention to close this trail until after MORC got involved and suggested it as an option.

As far as the supposed maintenance cost arguments go, sure there were costs. But if you want to play, you gotta pay.

Really?

I've had many discussions with Three Rivers staff, from maintenance workers all the way up to Assistant Superintendents, and this is news to me.

Where and when did Three Rivers publicly state this?

ryno lite

05-29-2007, 10:57 PM

I know many riders are NOT happy with the MORC job at Murphy. They just ain't posting about it.

For the life of me, why didn't you guy's push for better terrain? Just asking, if that's ok................. :confused:

I'm sure there are definitely some riders disappointed with the new Murphy, and I am sorry to hear that. There is no trail built anywhere that will satisfy everyone, that's just the way it is. I think we all wish there was one way to build sustainable trails that satisfied everyone but that will never happen. Bikers are a varied species and we all like different things. As with the replacement of the old Leb with the new Leb, I think we will be pleasing more people with the new Murph than the people we disappoint with the new Murph. There are literally 10 times as many cars in the Leb lot now than there were for the old trail, I expect the same with the new Murphy. In addition to the increased riders at both parks, we have also developed a trail system that saves the park systems money, is more sustainable, and a trail system that the park staff like better. I think we are making more people happy than disappointed. This doesn't mean that we are happy that some people are losing a favorite trail. We aren't. We hope these people learn to appreciate the new trail for what it is.

Some people have posted that we have to pay to play in regards to trail maintenance on trails like the old Murphy. Who is going to pay? If it wasn't for grants, corporate donations (thanks QBP), and generous MORC members, non of the local singletrack would be getting built and maintained. For the price of one year of maintenance at Leb and Murph, we could have a trail building crew come in and build us 15 or more new miles of singletrack. The cost of maintaining Leb for one season in the old days was almost twice as much as our whole annual MORC budget. We don't have the money to maintain fall line ski trails like the old Murph or old Leb and the parks had no interest in maintaining these any longer.

As has been said before, Three Rivers was going to close the old Murphy anyway, so it was an easy choice. Ten miles of new singletrack or nothing. That was our choice. MORC would be more than happy if Three Rivers kept the old Murphy open three months a year, but it's not going to happen. Three Rivers wanted it closed for three reasons: The cost of maintenance, the preservation of the nesting area of a rare bird, and they got sick of people being hauled out of there after they crashed bombing a hill at 40 mph. Closing any trail is sad for the mountain bike community, but there was nothing anyone could do but take the oppurtunity we were given.

As far as lobbying for a chunk of land with more vertical, we do live in MN, unless you are in a river valley or the North Shore, vertical is hard to come by. It's just the way it is. I hate it also. I love riding in the mountains just like everyone else. That said, Three Rivers was more than generous with giving us this section of land. It has never been used by another user group and I think that is exciting. It's a beautiful chunk of land and I'm happy to have it!

There may have been ways to design the trail for higher climbs and bigger descents, but in order to do so on that chunk of land with smaller ridges, we would have lost miles of trails. I'd rather have 10 miles of singletrack with the current climbs than 4 miles of singletrack with huge climbs. We need bigger chunks of land with huge hills to pull off the big climbs and lets face it, park land in the metro isn't that vast. I think Three Rivers was very generous and we used every inch the best we could.

Anyway, I hope the MN mountain bike community realizes what a great singletrack trail system we have gained through Three Rivers and the generosity of corporate sponsors, MORC members, and MORC volunteers. Thanks everyone who made this happen. I hope we have pleased more people than dissappointed people!

stoneage

05-29-2007, 10:59 PM

I'm guessing the new trail will be appreciated by more riders than the old trail.
That certainly won't be hard. The old trail wasn't a real off road trail, and was only open for 2-3 months a year. Most of the complaints I've heard, and there are quite a few, BTW, is the lack of elevation. It won't be a destination for me, just as the old trail wasn't. Just too far a drive for a ride in the woods. I was really excited for the new trail, because I was under the impression that it would be a physical test like none other in the area. That it isn't. Sorry, just my thoughts. Enjoy your trail.

Shorty

05-29-2007, 11:00 PM

After looking at the review and photos, I take it Murphy is open year round?

Murphy will be open from after the spring thaw until the trail closes for winter (similar to Leb, but no winter riding).

Winter riding is being discussed, but I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

Don Youngdahl

05-29-2007, 11:04 PM

.............

For the life of me, why didn't you guy's push for better terrain? Just asking, if that's ok................. :confused:

Who are the "you guys" you're referring to?

Nickel

05-29-2007, 11:16 PM

Too much

http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg

not enough riding! :banana:

waitabit

05-30-2007, 06:27 AM

The Goat Killer

05-30-2007, 08:27 AM

Who are the "you guys" you're referring to?

Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists, as in the riders on the MORC board who sat down with the 3 Rivers Park officals and worked out a deal.

Trevize1138

05-30-2007, 09:00 AM

I think it totally sucks that some people built 10 miles of new trail that I can ride for free.

Damn you.

Damn you all to hell!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

stoneage

05-30-2007, 09:14 AM

I think it totally sucks that some people built 10 miles of new trail that I can ride for free.
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
It's wonderful that we are allowed in the 3RPD system finally. When we tried to put singletrack in Anoka 15 years ago, we would dream about the possibility of using Elm Creek. We poached the NW part of the park, because there was some terrain and the horse people were doing it. It was pretty funny; they would call the rangers on us, and they weren't supposed to be there either. 3RPD is like a big ocean barge. Once you get it going in the right direction, everythings fine. I think there will eventually be a fee for use. I hope not, but the skiers pay, so who knows.

Trevize1138

05-30-2007, 09:21 AM

It won't be a destination for me, just as the old trail wasn't.

Bill, you've been "done" with every trail in the metro at one point or another. I'll see you at Murphy again real soon ;).

Trevize1138

05-30-2007, 09:25 AM

I think there will eventually be a fee for use. I hope not, but the skiers pay, so who knows.

Why all the pessimism? What's the cause for you to believe in the worst here?

You seem convinced that this project means we'll never have any super challenging trails in the system in the future. You also seem convinced that we'll be charged a trail fee. All the evidence I see says "no" to both of those.

I mean, 3RPD was going to end mountain biking entirely at Murphy and we convinced them to allow us to add 10 miles of singletrack. If that kind of happy ending isn't enough to make you optimistic then I don't know what will. :)

Shorty

05-30-2007, 09:31 AM

The possibility of fees has already been discussed here:

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=215883&postcount=44

trompete

05-30-2007, 09:37 AM

Argh. Unsubscribing. Wasn't this thread about trail reviews?

gopherhockey

05-30-2007, 09:38 AM

Why all the pessimism? What's the cause for you to believe in the worst here?

I think because it was already discussed that fees would likely show up... I don't think its a matter of believing the worst.

gopherhockey

05-30-2007, 09:41 AM

Argh. Unsubscribing. Wasn't this thread about trail reviews?

You are right.. we'll have to let this one burn itself out then start a new thread or something.

Trevize1138

05-30-2007, 09:47 AM

I think because it was already discussed that fees would likely show up... I don't think its a matter of believing the worst.

Fair enough. I guess I got the impression from Pete's POV that fees were being considered by 3RPD but ultimately unlikely.

berrywise

05-30-2007, 11:01 AM

I'm hoping the weather holds up and that I can get down there on Thursday to ride. I figure to bring my camera and take some photos so hopefully have those to share.

Hopefully the naysayers can take it easy for a little bit. Kind of a slap in the face to the people that put so much time into the trail to be already disrespecting them so soon. I guess the honeymoon is over already. :embarass:

The Goat Killer

05-30-2007, 11:05 AM

berrywise

05-30-2007, 11:09 AM

The trail was contracted out to a landscaping firm.

Tell that to Pete.

Shorty

05-30-2007, 12:22 PM

The trail was contracted out to a landscaping firm.

Please get your facts straight.

The basic trail was cut by the contractor. By no means did they build a completed trail. Both Three Rivers and MORC volunteers have put many hours into building this trail.

zaskar

05-30-2007, 01:31 PM

I rode the trail on Sunday. Had a blast!! Thanks to anyone who put blood, sweat, and blisters into this. Right from the start you could tell this wasn't an easy trail to clear.

I especially liked the log ride. Took me three attempts to clear it without dabbing a foot. I like having obstacles such as this to chanllenge me. I also liked how it pops out in the grassy open area once in awhile. Just changes the scenery and whatnot.

Thanks again to all those involved!!

soupboy

05-30-2007, 01:32 PM

1234567890

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/DoNotFeedTroll.png

Please get your facts straight.

The basic trail was cut by the contractor. By no means did they build a completed trail. Both Three Rivers and MORC volunteers have put many hours into building this trail.

The Goat Killer

05-30-2007, 03:01 PM

Please get your facts straight.

The basic trail was cut by the contractor. By no means did they build a completed trail. Both Three Rivers and MORC volunteers have put many hours into building this trail.

For a fee of around $100,000 correct?

gopherhockey

05-30-2007, 03:14 PM

For a fee of around $100,000 correct?

The question seems out of place. The contractor was paid to do the basic trail (dig/finish) - yes, for a fee.. paid some by grants, some by MORC, some donations and matching etc. (work that was started many years ago.. LOTS of work)

Pete's point was that there is a lot more that goes into the trail than what the contractor did.

I'm not sure why it even came up unless we're just looking for how the trail came about so quickly. There is no way MORC could have pulled this off by volunteers and budget money alone - not even close.

What it does show you is how much value we have put in some of our other trails when you look at what it takes to pull off a 10-mile trail in a short period of time.

Short or long term nothing could happen without the efforts of the volunteers. I think everyone knows that though... although it seems like you are trying to say that people here didn't put enough effort into the trail to feel disrespected by some of the way people are talking. I *hope* thats not what you are suggesting...

It seems that a lot of facts and history bits are being floated out in discussions that are not completely correct or misplaced. I wonder if it would be helpful to have a more complete story written up for reference. I think its safe to say that this trail was a learning process and was by no means easy... and that we definitely learned a lot of things through the process that we can hopefully improve next time.

Ralph Smith

05-30-2007, 03:19 PM

Direct quotes from Three Rivers documents:

"Since 2004, 382 visitors to Murphy-Hanrehan Park Reserve have participated in three different visitor studies." "Visitors requested additional mountain biking trails, extended seasonal hours, and improved trail surfaces."

There were also threads on the MORC website devoted to the project (dating back to 2003) in which you could have voiced your thoughts, wishes, and desire.

Sorry if you were not involved in any of these opportunities for input.

Pete,
If you have the archives you can go back to the MORC website and find posts by me. You can also find responses to those posts similar to some of those posted here. (It certainly seems any dissenting point of view is quickly discounted by some of the online folks.) I know you've put a lot of time into the trail and I'm sure it'll turn out nice. (I only rode it on Saturday so it's still pretty young - and I've refrained from making any remarks about the new trail because I want to give it a fair chance.) But that does not change the fact that the best darn ride in the metro is out now out of circulation.
(For you spinner riders - I doubt you can simulate the downhills or catching air off the hill crests on your stationary bikes).
Regarding my lack of effort, here is the text of my July 11, 2003 letter to Beth Nash of ThreeRivers Park District. Unfortunately I no longer have any of my previous correspondence with the park system, but it dated back a couple of years before this.
"Hi,
I am a frequent user of Murphy-Hanrehan park (winter and summer) and I've been recently informed that MORC, a local mountain biking advocacy group is promoting a change in the Murphy-Hanrehan trail system. As I understand it, the proposed changes would convert the mountain biking trails from the current double track loop to a single track trail. I would like to go on record as being opposed to any changes of this nature. The Murphy trail is the most demanding and exhilarating cycling trail in central Minnesota. To change its format would eliminate the only example of this type of riding in the area, and would be a serious loss to the cycling community. The Murphy-Hanrehan trail is unique in its format, while there are several other trails in the metro area that offer single track. I fully understand that there are trail maintenance challenges and environmental concerns that consume resources and limit the availability of the trail but I believe that these costs are justified by the benefit of having such a fantastic riding experience available. Please keep me informed of any further activity regarding the Murphy-Hanrehan trails.
Sincerely,
Ralph Smith"

After receiving Beth's response I replied and offered to assist in any decision making process.

Sorry for the use of bandwidth. Admin - if you want to move this off to a new, more appropriate thread, please do so.

Tower

05-30-2007, 03:41 PM

Everybody who put time in on this effort take a breather, guarantee way more pro's than con's will show up... All you need to do is some random surveying of the parking lot and on the forums...

The 80/ 20 rule certainly applies in this situation.... Allthough in this case I bet it's closer to 95/ 5 rule... There will always be nay sayers and people who for whatever reason disagree... But when it's time to get something done what really matters are the people that step up and participate. Anyone can voice up on a forum... That's easy...

Hey Hakala, you want to get involved and make a difference come on out to Afton I'll put you to work again... Plenty to do and you can make a difference...

Out.

tedsti

05-30-2007, 03:45 PM

But that does not change the fact that the best darn ride in the metro is out now out of circulation.
(For you spinner riders - I doubt you can simulate the downhills or catching air off the hill crests on your stationary bikes).

I think this is similar to the people who complain that everyone liked Leb better before MORC came along. The real simple voting method is how many people are on the trail. When Leb was all ski trail, the parking lot was usually empty on a weekend. Now there is no room to park on a Tuesday night. I am quite certain the same will hold true for Murphy. What used to be only a training ground for Chequamegon racers, will now be a trail that almost everyone will enjoy.

Shorty

05-30-2007, 04:00 PM

Pete,
If you have the archives you can go back to the MORC website and find posts by me.

Everyone has the same access to old posts as I do. You can do it.

bigwheel

05-30-2007, 04:43 PM

The Goat Killer

05-30-2007, 05:04 PM

Don Youngdahl

05-30-2007, 10:53 PM

...........l. The new Murphy seems to defy physics - you seem to spend a lot more time descending than climbing................

Another complaint about the lack of vertical??:D Just kidding, Jeff.

Ralph Smith

05-31-2007, 11:01 PM

It's good to see such a lively argument about a trail that normally would not open until August, and in the future would not open until after the Vikings won their second superbowl.

Ralph, I'd be interested in seeing the 3-Rivers response to your request. I'm also having trouble searching your old posts because the site only shows 5 of them.
3-Rivers' response was there was no plan to close the trail.
For me, Look for Domi7 or Tailwind. I signed up under my name this time around.
I haven't posted to a morc forum for quite a while becaue I got such a poor reception last time around when I suggested there were people who actually liked the Murphy-Hanrehan trail. I thought there might be some constructive discussion about different types of trails and riders' tastes but all I got was rudeness and requests to go away.
You know, it doesn't really matter if I posted here before or not. The right way to close a trail (if there is such a thing) is to post a big sign at the trail head that says something like "MORC AND THREE RIVERS PROPOSE TO CLOSE THIS TRAIL. FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT..."
And it doesn't matter if there are 5 or 95 percent of riders who like it. We all had it, some of us loved it, and others who don't appreciate it took it away.
Quietly, without asking.
And we'll likely never get another trail like it.
To those folks: Someday your tastes may change, but the door has already closed on your options. Maybe you'll fall in love with a hammerhead who has a tandem and wants you to be stoker/captain. But you won't have anyplace to ride.
And if it is a popularity contest you want, put in a big parking lot and a monster playset. Or a mall. Then the lots will be overflowing.
But if you want the best overall experience for everyone, you need to look at the mix of trails available in the area and try to maximise the diversity - not make them all the same.
I'm sorry some of you guys don't understand.

Ralph Smith

05-31-2007, 11:02 PM

I think this is similar to the people who complain that everyone liked Leb better before MORC came along. The real simple voting method is how many people are on the trail. When Leb was all ski trail, the parking lot was usually empty on a weekend. Now there is no room to park on a Tuesday night. I am quite certain the same will hold true for Murphy. What used to be only a training ground for Chequamegon racers, will now be a trail that almost everyone will enjoy.
See my post below.
And answer this:
Now where will the Chequamegon racers train?

Buck

05-31-2007, 11:30 PM

And answer this:
Now where will the Chequamegon racers train?

Have you ridden at Snake Creek/Trout Valley? That will fulfill your needs for training.
weRd!
Buck

JayT

05-31-2007, 11:42 PM

3-Rivers' response was there was no plan to close the trail.

If you are referring to a response back in '03 you are correct. At that time there was no plan. At that time there was also no plan in place to build a new trail. There was an idea, but no plan. I believe the Park District has wanted to remove mtb use from those trails for some time. The idea of a new trail system presented a good alternative.

We all had it, some of us loved it, and others who don't appreciate it took it away. Quietly, without asking.

Once there was a plan in place I don't think there was any secret that the trail currently being used for off-road riding was going to be closed for mtb use. I seem to recall a few message board threads on that topic.

The decision to close the "old" mtb trails was solely the Park District's. Never did MORC lobby to have these trails closed. MORC did however step up to make a new trail system a reality.

It's unfortunate that the new trail system can't meet everyone's ideals, but the reality is; that was never going to happen.

I don't think either MORC or the Park District owe any apology for that.

Shorty

05-31-2007, 11:45 PM

It's unfortunate that you're disappointed about the closure of the old trail, that you feel public notification wasn't sufficient, and if you were treated poorly in the forums in the past (this is a public forum full of differing opinions that are often shared enthusiastically... my only recommendation is thick skin).

I too enjoyed riding the old trail... but I understand and accept why it is gone, and have dealt with any disappointment the closure has caused.

Decisions were made, and I have faith that the best option was chosen.
Obviously you disagree... everyone is entitled to their opinion.

.

BrightYellow

06-01-2007, 02:19 PM

http://www.cyclingnews.com/mtb.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun02mtbnews
Minnesota celebrates new singletrack

Over the Memorial Day holiday weekend, residents of Savage, Minnesota, celebrated the opening of new mountain bike trails in the Murphy-Hanrehan Park Reserve.

A seven-mile advanced loop, a two-and-a-half-mile intermediate loop, and an eight-tenths of a mile easy loop are among the new trails, which feature a varying level of difficulty. The trails offer sustained climbs through a wooded area and views of a wetland complex tucked between the more difficult trail loops.

The sustainable trails were designed through a partnership between the Three Rivers Park District, Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists (MORC), and the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and were partly funded by a grant from the Department of Natural Resources (DNR). MORC volunteers will assist Park District Maintenance and Public Safety staff in maintaining and patrolling the trail.

ebrandel

06-01-2007, 03:02 PM

"MORC AND THREE RIVERS PROPOSE TO CLOSE THIS TRAIL. FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT..."
I'm trying to figure out where you get the idea that MORC proposed to close the old trail. That was the land managers call. I doubt anyone involved with MORC would agree that eliminating a mountain bike trail in MN is ever a good thing, even if they aren't up to IMBA spec.

I was always surprised that Murphy even existed in its old state. To me it seemed to be one crash and lawsuit away from closing. One of those "Little Jimmy was on his $99 Walmart special without a helmet and ran into a tree with his head after hitting a rutted washed out area of the trail and now he's in a coma" type of frivolous lawsuits. And then there would be no trails at Murphy at all. *shrug* Sometimes changes suck, but there are a lot worse alternatives than having 10 miles of new trails to ride.

tedsti

06-01-2007, 03:10 PM

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned here yet....

Huge thanks to the QBP employees for putting up the matching cash for the QBP part of the grant money!!!!

newp

06-01-2007, 03:27 PM

Sorry, I need to add my 2 cents. I've been riding/racing motocross and mtb for around 15 years now, and have enjoyed Murphy for it climbs, fast down hills, and flow for years. There is no other trail around here that will give you that workout like the old Murphy(8-10 laps and you felt it!). I understand that it was a ski trail and not mtb single track, but what's wrong with that? The new Leb. is great, and nothing like the old Leb. but don't you miss the old fast down hill S turn ever. The reason I got into mtb was for the love of riding bike and to stay in shape. I feel the trails around here are geared more towards tech. riding, and a little less physical demanding. I haven't rode the new Murphy yet, (I'll be there tomorrow morning, hopefully with no kitty following me!) and I will give you my opinion of the new trail after that. In the future it would be nice to see some climbs in the trails through. Long live in memory the 40+ mph downhill with the left hand sand turn as you slide into the berm to catch that little grove and spin out that 27th gear.:D

Later

Kingbozo

06-01-2007, 03:42 PM

"I understand that it was a ski trail and not mtb single track, but what's wrong with that?"

What's wrong with that is the trails were constantly eroding badly and truckloads of fill had to be brought in to repair them.

seberly

06-01-2007, 03:44 PM

"I was always surprised that Murphy even existed in its old state. To me it seemed to be one crash and lawsuit away from closing. One of those "Little Jimmy was on his $99 Walmart special without a helmet and ran into a tree with his head after hitting a rutted washed out area of the trail and now he's in a coma" type of frivolous lawsuits. And then there would be no trails at Murphy at all. *shrug* Sometimes changes suck, but there are a lot worse alternatives than having 10 miles of new trails to ride."

IN FACT if you are really an oldster you might remember the original layout of the MTB trails at Murphy where the trail went out backwards along what is the current alignment of the ski trail - if you've been on that trail there is a VERY steep hill with a sharp turn at the bottom which you went up AND down as it was out and back then as well. I know there were some accidents on that hill in the early years.

Oh yeah...and they didn't post any signs about the planned change at that time and MORC was just a dream......

gopherhockey

06-01-2007, 03:52 PM

The new Leb. is great, and nothing like the old Leb. but don't you miss the old fast down hill S turn ever.

Every once in a while I actually miss a section or two of the old Leb... but I guess long gone are the days of fall-line trail design. I know most don't think about that and frankly probably don't care... but a new era of trail design (as well as safety and maintenance concerns, among others) is upon us, and its not just MORC or Minnesota that is going through it.

I see it as part of the evolution of the sport... and change isn't always easy to accept even with knowledge of all the facts and figures.

Putting the physically demanding aspect into a sustainable trail in Minnesota is an art that I would admit even MORC has not yet mastered completely. We learn as we go, and we'll likely take the feedback we get here and apply it to the next trail. Don't forget that there are many types of riders out there though - even Dakota has gotten feedback that there isn't enough easy stuff at Leb, so our next project isn't catering to the climb hungry (like me) but to those just entering our sport.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. As always, it is good to see both sides of what people out there want. I once thought only 3-4 people liked the old Murphy and Leb. Its good to know its more like 4-5. ;)

If there are those out there that are not comfortable posting up but have similar concerns, please feel free to at least PM or email someone on the MORC board. If you are frustrated or curious about why MORC is doing things the way they do I would bet that you don't have all the facts, and I'd personally be willing to work with you - even out on the trails themselves - to help out with that.

bigwheel

06-01-2007, 04:17 PM

Every once in a while I actually miss a section or two of the old Leb... but I guess long gone are the days of fall-line trail design.

Yesterday, I was doing some maintenance at Terrace Oaks, walking in via the fall line trail (ski trail) near the end of the loop. Even with as little use as TO has gotten, the trail is already eroding away, and will need another load of class-5 and some grater time. Meanwhile, you can see that the main bike track has moved to the side, near the woods because the bikers don't want to ride in the ruts.

Before mountain bikes started using the trails, this wasn't a problem. The ski trails would weed/grass up in the summer, and that would keep the dirt in place. But the bikes tend to kill the fragile vegitation and also kick loose the few stones that helped hold the dirt in place.

I don't know what a load of class-5 plus a half-hour of grater time costs, but I'll bet it's more than they care to spend several times a summer. Even if the bikers don't mind the ruts, they still have to all be fixed before ski season.

Trevize1138

06-01-2007, 04:37 PM

There is no other trail around here that will give you that workout like the old Murphy(8-10 laps and you felt it!).

I think that says it all. :) You could get a great workout ... if you do 8-10 laps! :laugh:

Earlier the analogy of "old" Murphy as being like the Wild Thing rollercoaster was brought up. I think that's pretty apt. I rode both less than 10 times and that's all I needed. After that I was bored with it and after a few years of being bored with it I came back to find it so badly eroded I was "bombing" the downhills at just over 20mph, well shy of the 42mph mark I once hit 10 years ago.

"Old" Murphy had it's day. That day came and now it's gone. That's the way it goes, folks.

setzep

06-01-2007, 05:47 PM

Rode the new MH trails today and I give it a thumbs up. I like the twisting trails through the woods but the open grassy areas need a little breaking in. The construction of the bridges seem to be top notch. There isn't many speed areas (averaged 9mph, max was a tad under 20 for me) but that's ok in my eyes. Saw a lot of places where people went off the trail and trees with no bark about handle bar height :D, guessing that will go away in time once people get used to the trails. I liked the log/tree ride a few pedal strokes past marker 79, was a little sketchy but fun. The markers/maps looked top notch to me. I like it better than the old trail, just my opinion.
Almost forgot! Don't stop too long in the woods or the mosquitoes will carry you away!

Yammer

06-02-2007, 12:01 AM

I rode the new trail today and it is pretty cool. It's just the right length for a good ride. I rode it slow since it seemed kind of tender, but once it dries up a bit and gets packed down/broken in, a few more drops in the XX section and it'll probably be my new favorite trail. Who would have thought that you'd ever hear me say that Murphy is my favorite trail, but I think it has the potential to give Lebs a run for it's status.

The trail has sort of a mini epic feel to it. How many miles of trail can eventually be linked together out there? Is there a limit?
Some parts of the woods felt alot like Rock Lake up in Chequamegon.
Also there is some interesting natural scenery out there that I have never seen before, that was pretty awesome. I felt like I was exploring.

I didn't see any large cats out there, but kept thinking that I saw something in my peripheral vision many times. You gotta laugh when even something as cool as the MORC forums end up sensationalizing something like this. I wonder if that cat will ever be seen again?

I can't wait until later this season. I can just imagine early fall rides through the new trail. This is definitely some great work.

Patrick

ryno lite

06-02-2007, 04:46 PM

The trail has sort of a mini epic feel to it. How many miles of trail can eventually be linked together out there? Is there a limit?

Unlike some trails that continue to add some length, like Lebanon, this trail is complete and it is doubtful any additional mileage will be added to it. We will be busy this year and maybe next working on the trail and adding some technical trail features, so you will see continued changed for awhile. We have some cool ideas in store for it, but it will not be the same as Lebanon when we are done. Glad to hear you liked it! I know I have a great time out there as well!

Nita

06-03-2007, 12:02 PM

I have recently been able to attend some trail maintenance sessions at Leb and then this past event on June 2nd for National Trail Days to put in new singletrack. To see all the work that goes into building a new section of trail made me realize the dedication it took to put in 10 miles at Murphy. I know there must be others like me that thought they can't help in trail maintenance, but like Ted said..."everybody is good at doing something", even if its schlepping tools or being a gopher. I know how enept I felt the first time at Leb on de-berming. This Saturday I learned a huge amount just from listening to Pete K. about water flow and how to fix spots on the trail by walking it and looking closely. Thank you people who designed and put in that beautiful singletrack at Murphy, I understand much more after this weekend how much work went into it. You truly are superstars!

daveyp

06-04-2007, 11:42 AM

Wow Great Trail! Thanks. The layout is fantastic, nice cool woods, scenic overlooks, open spots, flows nice especially when ridden in a bit. Almost like Camba Ojibwa without 90% of the rocks and roots. Seems to have the mosquitos though!
Am thinking this is going to be REAL popular due to the intermediate nature of the place. I can actually take my non-expert friends and family there and not have to worry where the closest hospital is. Surely hope not too much tinkering with new tricks.
Way to go MORC and thanks Three Rivers!

berrywise

06-04-2007, 11:54 AM

We will be busy this year and maybe next working on the trail and adding some technical trail features, so you will see continued changed for awhile.

I'd like to officially voice my opinion that less is more with this trail. I really enjoyed the lack of technical trail features such as multiple rock gardens, log piles etc, if that is what you had in mind.

I'll be plenty happy to back-up my opinions with trail work(repair) :)

Shorty

06-04-2007, 12:24 PM

I'd like to officially voice my opinion that less is more with this trail. I really enjoyed the lack of technical trail features such as multiple rock gardens, log piles etc, if that is what you had in mind.

This is the current plan...

There are a couple hundred yards of trail between 61 and 62 that will become a mini optional loop. It will contain a couple required features (no ride-around). If you don't want to ride them, you can skip the mini loop and keep the flow going (that's not to say a good rider won't be able to flow through the optional loop).

Otherwise the main trail as we know it now will not be changing much, and will only be getting a couple features.

These are the only features that are planned for the current trail alignment
(all the others will be on optional side trails):

- A rock garden or two (in locations where good riders can coast/carry speed through them).

- Multiple berms (I'd argue these ADD flow).

- Some rollable jumps in the prairie.

berrywise

06-04-2007, 12:28 PM

This is the current plan...

There are a couple hundred yards of trail between 61 and 62 that will become a mini optional loop. It will contain a couple required features (no ride-around). If you don't want to ride them, you can skip the mini loop and keep the flow going (that's not to say a good rider won't be able to flow through the optional loop).

Otherwise the main trail as we know it now will not be changing much, and will only be getting a couple features.

These are the only features that are planned for the current trail alignment
(all the others will be on optional side trails):

- A rock garden or two (in locations where good riders can coast/carry speed through them).

- Multiple berms (I'd argue these ADD flow).

- Some rollable jumps in the prairie.

I think that looks like a good plan. Keep up the good work Pete.

Axis II

06-09-2007, 06:54 AM

Shorty

06-09-2007, 11:18 AM

I'm not alone- to date, the people I have talked to about this trail are unimpressed.

Is the closure of the old trail a done deal or can it be resurrected?

Like has been said before, no one expected to please everyone.

The old trail is closed for good.

wezel

06-09-2007, 02:34 PM

I'm more of a roadie than a mountain biker, although I did quite a bit of mountain biking when I lived in Scottsdale. Now that this trail opened 1.5 miles south of my house, I plan on doing a lot more mountain biking. I think the trail is excellent! It's nice to see these large preserve areas accessible to bikers, hikers, and runners. Honestly, I don't need an obstacle course to enjoy my ride and if I want to go fast, I ride my road bike.

One question. How does everyone feel about trail running on it? I know it's open to trail running, but is it safe with all the bike traffic?

Thanks,
Shane

Shorty

06-09-2007, 05:36 PM

How does everyone feel about trail running on it? I know it's open to trail running, but is it safe with all the bike traffic

I think it'll be OK as long as trail runners keep an eye (and ear) open for bikers, especially since runners should step off the trail and let bikers pass.

Trail runners will quickly learn that it is a popular mtb trail, and they'll adjust (or find somewhere else).

I'm not a trail runner, but I'd think it would be a fun trail for it.

jag

06-09-2007, 06:23 PM

Nice trail. Rode a couple laps for the 1st time today. I like it a lot better than the old except for that one little fast section on the old trail. It would be nice to have both even though I probably wouldn't ride the old anymore. It sure is nice to see so many more riders out there than before. It is obvious that this is more popular than the old when you see the parking lot full of activity. Makes my truck feel safer. Thanks all.

devo kenivel

06-09-2007, 10:19 PM

Nice to hear that you guys plan on adding some technical lines. The more I ride it the more I like it. Please put some berms on those 180 degree switchbacks. Let me know if you want some help.

crux

06-10-2007, 12:16 AM

Had a chance to sneak out and ride Murphy for the first time today. Thought that the trail is fairly well laid out. Seems to flow nicely for how young the trail is. Bridge sections are nice an solid. Technical features are all very well thought out and have options.

Hopefully I can come back after a year or so and see how the trail beds in as I think that it will only get better with time and with a little massaging.

Don't think that it would be fair to compare the trail to the old Murphy or Leb as it is its own trail. For all those who contributed time doing trail work there, Thanks.

Shorty

06-10-2007, 02:17 AM

Please put some berms on those 180 degree switchbacks. Let me know if you want some help.

A handfull of berms are planned... keep an eye on the forums for info on trailwork.

Burke

06-10-2007, 05:47 PM

I have to agree with others here like Bill who are dissapointed in the new trail. I was very optimistic about this trail after consuming a year of hype on how this would be the acme trail in the Metro. I know it's been said before BUT I'll very much miss the old trail. I'm not alone- to date, the people I have talked to about this trail are unimpressed. Most stated they would not go back to ride it. It's a GREAT beginner trail, however. Hopefully this trail will provide a better destination for the flip-flop wearing folks without helmets that we see at Lebanon all the time. I think this will be the benefit of this trail for the MTB community here. Is the closure of the old trail a done deal or can it be resurrected?

Hi Matt,
Thanks for your thoughts. Sorry the new trail doesn't suit your tastes. We've gotten lots of feedback from both sides. We hear all feedback, regardless of whether it's favorable or not, and try to incorporate it into our future trail developments.

Regarding the XC/MTB trail that was opened seasonally from August 1-October 31, My suggestion would be for you and the vocal legion of like-minded individuals is to band together and formally work with 3RPD to get the trail opened again this fall. A group like "Save Murphy: Unbelievable Rollercoaster Fun" would give your opinion a unified voice. You've got a couple of months of prime riding season to organize before the trail traditionally has opened.

To reiterate what has been said, MORC did not ask for the trail to be closed. That said, we will not lobby for it to be opened. It does not fall within the sustainable trail building principles we fully subscribe to. If you're not sure what I mean by that, I'd be happy to walk the trails with you or anyone that would like the quick version of why we design and build the way we do.

MORC has succeeded by doing three basic things, we:
1) Describe what we'd like to do
2) Demonstrate why it's the best option
3) Do what we said we were going to do
You can follow this strategy if you'd like, it's worked well for us.

MORC doesn't have a monopoly on mountain bike advocacy in Minnesota, we've just been the most successful at creating new miles of sustainable singletrack, getting rider support, advocating our cause, funding projects and partnering with land managers.

Scott
president at morcmtb.org