Poached Trails?

[xbobeahenx]

I live no more than 5 blocks from the Hillside trail, so it's my pleasure to see the trucks parked in the lot more than once this past week.

Are the owners of the Red pickup and the White pickup riding the trails? Or are you doing some pre-trailwork scouting/cleaning? I've seen both vehicles MULTIPLE times parked in the lot

Because I did check out the trails on thursday, don't worry I stopped in the lot and walked all of 10 feet in, and even in the somewhat exposed sections, the trails are super damp and super loose.

This trail already needs a lot of work, please stay off until we have a chance to get out there, do some cleaning/building. Better yet, come out on the 14th and lend a hand/shovel.

[xbobeahenx]

On another quick, little deeper, survey of the trail, I discovered the trails are way too damp for riding. So, to the owner of the GMC Van, somewhat silver/gold color, I hope you aren't riding the trails.

[Elk River Rider]

I also live very close to the trail head and I saw multiple riders using the trail this past Easter weekend. They weren't just checking it out either, they got their bikes out of their cars and trucks and rode for at least an hour. By the looks of the gear they had, they were experienced and probably should know better.

I have no experience in trail maintenance or anything of the kind, but I assumed the trail was closed until it completely dried out. Is there a better way that the trail can be marked whether it is open or closed? How about a big trail closed sign when conditions are wet? I don't know who to talk to or even who runs the trail, but I would volunteer to take down/put up a sign when the trail is open or closed as much as my schedule allowed. I am out of town periodically for a day at a time for work. I would also probably need further instruction as to what dictated whether the trail was open or closed.

Additionally, in reading another thread on a different trail someone indicated that the trail should not be used by hikers either. Is that generally the case, is foot traffic also a concern because I have walked my dog back there in late winter/early spring when the trail wasn't suitable to be ridden. If it is felt that foot traffic is a bad idea, then I will stop walking back there.

[RichZilla]

Nope, it's fine to walk out there. Hillside Park is an official City Park and can be used as such. You can bike, hike, snowshoe, whatever!:)

[elkriver]

I could stand guard with my 12 gauge .Mabey just scare them a little bit,couple of shots over their heads should do. :banana: Ha Ha just kidding !

[TrailPatrol]

So, to the owner of the GMC Van, somewhat silver/gold color, I hope you aren't riding the trails.

And they probably don't read the MORC forum anyhow.

We will start checking on the trailhead on a regular basis, particularly Jay who lives so close.

Hans

[Fast1]

What about attaching flyers to their windshield wipers informing and educating them about trail closures and the reason why. Also the link to this forum.

Good idea? instead of just talking about the cars and license plate numbers..

[TrailPatrol]

What about attaching flyers to their windshield wipers informing and educating them about trail closures and the reason why. Also the link to this forum.

Good idea? instead of just talking about the cars and license plate numbers..

We have "Tread Lightly!" and IMBA "Rules of the Trail" flyers we can hand out. NMBP patrollers are trained to make contact with wayward riders (or potential wayward riders) and convict...I mean convince them of the error their ways.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[DanB]

What about attaching flyers to their windshield wipers informing and educating them about trail closures and the reason why. Also the link to this forum.

Good idea? instead of just talking about the cars and license plate numbers..

That's a good idea. :) Guilt can have an enormous impact on someone's ability to do wrong........not that I'd know anything about that.......:embarass:

[deepindakotacounty]

What about attaching flyers to their windshield wipers informing and educating them about trail closures and the reason why. Also the link to this forum.

Good idea? instead of just talking about the cars and license plate numbers..

I think this is a great idea! Can anyone at MORC create a general flyer that we could all print out and have handy, so that we could attach it to a poachers windshield? I think that is a positive non-threatening way to get our point across. I don't expect everyone to completely obey our request, but they would at least give it a second thought.

Kevin

[Shorty]

One thing to consider is many cities have ordinances against touching someone's car. And also consider the likelihood of these things becoming litter (litter with MORC's or IMBA's name on it!).

I checked on this a while back when I lived near a large church... there would always be people sticking things on the cars every Sunday, including mine which I parked on the street. Then they'd be all over my street after church.

When I called my police precinct they said it violates a city ordinance that says you can't touch someone else's car.

I then took the liberty of calling the number on the flyer and educating them. ;)

[deepindakotacounty]

One thing to consider is many cities have ordinances against touching someone's car. And also consider the likelihood of these things becoming litter (litter with MORC's or IMBA's name on it!).

I checked on this a while back when I lived near a large church... there would always be people sticking things on the cars every Sunday, including mine which I parked on the street. Then they'd be all over my street after church.

When I called my police precinct they said it violates a city ordinance that says you can't touch someone else's car.

I then took the liberty of calling the number on the flyer and educating them. ;)

Touché. This is why we discuss things before we enact them. :mobile:

[Fast1]

One thing to consider is many cities have ordinances against touching someone's car. ;)


Have you contacted Minneapolis, Eagan or the other community police departments, explained the situation and the thought of informing the trail poachers with an informational flyer? Do you even know for sure if there is a so called "no touch" policy within Hennepin and Washington counties?
Has it ever been enforced?


I also thought that usually only one or two cars are ever reported at trailheads during closures so you are not going to be leaving many flyers..

NOW I'm think if I accidently back into a car in the parking lot I better not leaving my name and number on a piece of paper under their windshield wiper..

[TrailPatrol]

We have "Tread Lightly!" and IMBA "Rules of the Trail" flyers we can hand out. NMBP patrollers are trained to make contact with wayward riders (or potential wayward riders) and convict...I mean convince them of the error their ways.

Guys! Pay attention! We have the flyers on hand already. We don't need to make up new ones. We are not going to put them under windshields; we are going to make contact; In other words, hand the info to them and explain why this (riding now) is NOT a good idea. (Particularly if we get 6 inches of snow in the ext two days, like they are saying.) The Backcountry Trail Patrol already has an agreement in place with Elk River to patrol the trails and the trailhead.

Let's give it a try before we re-invent the wheel, okay?

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[FarmerBEN]

there would be a big difference between 100 cars near a church and three or four at a trailhead, I don't think the litter would be such a big issue in this case.

[Shorty]

Have you contacted Minneapolis, Eagan or the other community police departments, explained the situation and the thought of informing the trail poachers with an informational flyer? Do you even know for sure if there is a so called "no touch" policy within Hennepin and Washington counties?
Has it ever been enforced?

As I said in my post... these are things to consider.

If you want to pursue this idea, you can find the answers. I told you what the Mpls police told me.

[sam]

Hans Would you be able to send me a copy of the flyer? email version, I will be up there on Thursday and could post it on the kiosk. Thanks for your help.

now my 1 cent worth

The bottom line is as much as anyone wants to rant on the trail poachers if you will,there will always be someone wanting to ride when they want to ride and nothing we can say or do will change that. If we use the tools available to us to educate to the ones that are teachable we are doing the best we can. we will always be doing some cleanup and might as well come to grips with that . Turning into trail nazi's just aggrevates the situation

[gopherhockey]

nothing we can say or do will change that. If we use the tools available to us to educate to the ones that are teachable we are doing the best we can.

We do need to continue educating... and IMHO at some point in time we need to partner with the land managers to make some examples out of people who poach. I think if word got out that tickets ARE possible it would help our cause.

I don't think we can just sit back and educate without trying to come up with more of an action plan. The trails are too valuable and too much work has been put in to not at least try come up with constructive ways to handle this ongoing issue. If for no other reason than it shows other trail workers that we're not giving up and that we value their efforts as well.

[sam]

I agree that we must always be trying differant plans of action to resolve the problem,but if someone wants to break the rules,they are going to break the rules,they could give a --- if they get a ticket or not,probably already have a load of unpaid parking tickets . With enforcement there has to be consequences and who is going to carry that out? Cops cant even keep murderers ,rapist etc etc locked up.blah blah blah,,you know the drill.

We have all put a lot of time,money energy and heart into the trails and it really sucks to see what happens to them when ridden at the wrong times,but we need to get the people on the edge to want to work with us. Not thinking we are a bunch of self righteous a- holes (Ive been that guy so I can say it) trying to wreck their day.

Put up signs, temp fences at trailheads and other entry points but I think we better think twice before asking the cops and government agencies to start handing out tickets,it seems they already have their hands full and I woundnt expect any city, county or state would be willing to hire additional law enforcement to monitor our trails. At that point it may be easier to just say no more.

But if they want to thats great.

Just another opinion

[TrailPatrol]

Hans Would you be able to send me a copy of the flyer? email version, I will be up there on Thursday and could post it on the kiosk. Thanks for your help.

Sam,
PM me your real e-mail address and I will send you PDFs of the poster, flyer and booklet.

Thanks,
Hans