Customer Service and Crabby Mechanics

[noise_is_life]

Why do I have such a hard time relating to bike mechanics. I'm relatively clueless mechanically, but I've been around bikes long enough to have at least half an idea what I'm talking about.

When I take my bike in I always feel like they are half listening and I'm being a pain in the ass customer, but I'm just trying to give them enough history of my bike so they aren't working on the wrong thing.

I'm sure I've bitched about this before, but it's damn frustrating.

[mn_ultra_guy]

Pat,
Where are you taking your ride and what are you trying to do?

[Pete Hamer]

Most bike shop mechanics have fragile egos from being abused by customers and employers. This leaves puts them on guard. Try starting the conversation with a compliment to disarm them a bit and let them know you are a nice person. (no insult intended to my fellow shop mechanics) :)

Once you find a mechanic you like follow him/her where ever they go.

[pro1200]

No one mechanic knows how to resolve all issues. Keep trying different ones until you find one that gets your drift. Especially avoid ones that make stuff up to get you off their back. I'm assuming that you're not taking too much of their time explaining the problem and you're not asking for free advice so you don't have to pay them.

[noise_is_life]

Pat,
Where are you taking your ride and what are you trying to do?

I don't really want to say where, there are toes here that would be stepped on, i've seen the behavior at multiple shops. The only solution I've come up with is to get to know a couple of the mechanics, but even that hasn't always worked with certain extremely crabby guys.

I have a problem with my rear brake (Hayes brakes) where the lever adjustment keeps slipping, it's been doing it since I got the bike. My regular mechanic loc-tighted it, but it continues to slip so I was kind of looking for a second opinion. His solution was to just bleed the brake without really trying to understand what was going on, $25 for something that may not fix the problem. Not a lot I know, but if it doesn't do anything...

[noise_is_life]

Most bike shop mechanics have fragile egos from being abused by customers and employers. This leaves puts them on guard. Try starting the conversation with a compliment to disarm them a bit and let them know you are a nice person. (no insult intended to my fellow shop mechanics) :)

Very much like computer geeks. :)


Once you find a mechanic you like follow him/her where ever they go.
I do have a regular mechanic, but the shop is kinda far and I didn't want to take the time. Also, as I mentioned below I was looking for a second opinion.

[jjrsds]

I am lacking terminology today so please forgive. The adjustment screw where it goes through the handle has been a pain for me as well. Hayes has a solution for the problem where the handle lever now has nylon inside of it to hold the lever screw in the same position. The part can be ordered from Hayes. I forget the part name but will post up when I do find the answer. I assume you have HFX 9 or comp hydro brakes and they need a little twist on the lever adjuster every ride or so.

JJ

[Heuy]

I don't know if its neccesarily having a specific Mechanic, but being able to go to a place where they know, oh this is the Arneson bike. He knows what he is talking about. I hate taking my car, bike whatever, to a place where I tell them I know its not this this or this but could you look at the other thing? I don't have the tools for it.

Anyplace where you're not known, they thing you're the average fool off of the street ao they don't believe you and act like they didn't hear anything you said.

You have to remember that 90% of their business is people who ride their bikes 3 times a year and don't have a clue.

It's also a little worse at bike shops because a lot of the people they hire for mechanics are either BMX or roadies, therefore they don't understand suspension or disk brakes or why anyone would want them because they don't have it on their bike.

[Guest1]

Cough cough.

http://www.straitlinecomponents.com/products/barrel_nuts.php

[jjrsds]

Thanks Dan. I couldn't find it quick enough and I am working on my bike so I was regulating my time before I started work.

[noise_is_life]

As usual I should have just posted my problem on here.

I suppose I should call them and tell them to not do that bleed.

[mn_ultra_guy]

I like freewheel since they have a public shop where the mechanics can help whow what the problem is and that way you may get the problem fixed and learn how also.

[Pete Hamer]

As usual I should have just posted my problem on here.

It seems like the bike mechanics who are active on this forum are usually friendly and helpful. I think it's a mountain biker thing.

[Trevize1138]

Most bike shop mechanics have fragile egos from being abused by customers and employers. This leaves puts them on guard. Try starting the conversation with a compliment to disarm them a bit and let them know you are a nice person. (no insult intended to my fellow shop mechanics)

Very much like computer geeks. :)

Whether it's a wrench monkey or a code monkey there's good cause for less-than-smooth customer relations. Someone with good logical/analitical/mechanical skill isn't necessarily the best at interpersonal communication. In fact, those two skill sets often perform best when they're mutually exclusive. I think it's a rare thing to find a good bike mechanic who's also excellent at talking to people. :)

[steef]

I think it's a rare thing to find a good bike mechanic who's also excellent at talking to people. :)

Lubrication isn't just for drivetrains anymore. ;)

[Guest1]

Whether it's a wrench monkey or a code monkey there's good cause for less-than-smooth customer relations. Someone with good logical/analitical/mechanical skill isn't necessarily the best at interpersonal communication. In fact, those two skill sets often perform best when they're mutually exclusive. I think it's a rare thing to find a good bike mechanic who's also excellent at talking to people. :)

I am neither a mechanic nor a good speaker, Thankfully I have my good looks to fall back on.:eyeroll:

[stoneage]

Why do I have such a hard time relating to bike mechanics.
When I take my bike in I always feel like they are half listening and I'm being a pain in the ass
That's odd!! You are walking in with a six pack, aren't you? :confused:

[noise_is_life]

That's odd!! You are walking in with a six pack, aren't you? :confused:

I certainly will from now on, of course it's crucial to pick a bike shop where such behavior is accepted/expected. :)

[manual63]

You could just go to JJ and he will make sure he puts all your stuff on backwards, upside down, and at the wrong height.........:):p:cool:

I know I am going to get it for this one. I just hope it's not while I am riding in Fruita this spring....:scream:

[stoneage]

I certainly will from now on, of course it's crucial to pick a bike shop where such behavior is accepted/expected. :)
It's hard to pick one where it isn't.

[manual63]

You could just go to One On One Bicycle Studio (http://www.oneononebike.com/). You can get coffee and get service. Don't expect a butt kissing though.

[cockleburr]

You could just go to One On One Bicycle Studio (http://www.oneononebike.com/). You can get coffee and get service. Don't expect a butt kissing though.


;) well we have been known to bend over backwards...., and Hollywood Cycles, he always gets it done right too:etard:

[jjrsds]

You could just go to JJ and he will make sure he puts all your stuff on backwards, upside down, and at the wrong height.........:):p:cool:

I know I am going to get it for this one. I just hope it's not while I am riding in Fruita this spring....:scream:


Ouch and very funny. See how hard you laugh when you don't have zip ties or a place to camp. :D

JJ

[berrywise]

;) well we have been known to bend over backwards...., and Hollywood Cycles, he always gets it done right too:etard:

and if ya wait till Easter you can take in Artcrank!

[Danimal]

Dave "The Cannondale God" at Eriks in Bloomington is the only guy who touches my bike. He has ALWAYS gone above and beyond for me and my mechanical stupidity. Penn's mechanics I haven't tried. I am usually up front with them and tell them I'm a mechanical idiot and ask for their suggestions. Give them a chance to see you are asking for their extensive knowledge and are putting trust in them. They like that.

[Ala Carte]

Anyplace where you're not known, they thing you're the average fool off of the street ao they don't believe you and act like they didn't hear anything you said.

You have to remember that 90% of their business is people who ride their bikes 3 times a year and don't have a clue.

It's also a little worse at bike shops because a lot of the people they hire for mechanics are either BMX or roadies, therefore they don't understand suspension or disk brakes or why anyone would want them because they don't have it on their bike.

Am I missing the sarcasim? These statements couldn't be futher from the truth.

[Magic]

Or better yet, do your own wrenching. That way you don't need to take the bike and have all these problems.

[Nickel]

Or better yet, do your own wrenching. That way you don't need to take the bike and have all these problems.


Not all of us have our own headset press! ;)

[Magic]

Not all of us have our own headset press! ;)

Yes, but they are easy to make. :D

[crux]

Yes, but they are easy to make. :D


Someone else who admits to making their own tools.

If you don't know how to work on your bike learn a bit, you don't need to take on the big jobs, just have some level of understanding of your bike and know when to ask for help from a shop. Gene at One on One or Jay at Hollywood's both do great work and would not hesitate to have them look over my bike if I can't figure it out.

Just know when to quit so you don't do more damage than good, if you take up wrenching on it your self.

[steef]

Someone else who admits to making their own tools. I've been usaing the same homemade headset press for 25 years or so.

Just know when to quit so you don't do more damage than good, if you take up wrenching on it your self.

I haven't found that spot, yet, except for knowing that there's some things I don't do all that well. It just made sense to me to buy my own tools instead of giving money to someone else to do the same job. My tools have more than paid for themselves.

Must... buy... more tools....:jumpy:

[qheuie]

and Hollywood Cycles, he always gets it done right too

i second that. hollywood has always taken care of me and has never once given me attitude.

[soupboy]

Chk yo email Pat

[jitterjepp]

Whether it's a wrench monkey or a code monkey there's good cause for less-than-smooth customer relations. Someone with good logical/analitical/mechanical skill isn't necessarily the best at interpersonal communication. In fact, those two skill sets often perform best when they're mutually exclusive. I think it's a rare thing to find a good bike mechanic who's also excellent at talking to people. :)I think its rare to have talented people be good at only one thing.

[trogolodyte16]

Whatever happened to Bikemasters?

Their service was spectacular - attitudes impeccable and timeliness of return on repairs incredible - yet where did they go? :confused:

[noise_is_life]

Whatever happened to Bikemasters?

Their service was spectacular - attitudes impeccable and timeliness of return on repairs incredible - yet where did they go? :confused:

Bikemasters is pretty near my house, north of Hwy 7, west of Wooddale. I've tried them a few times, haven't been impressed, they seem more oriented towards the comfort bike set.

[sensorysonic]

You could just go to One On One Bicycle Studio (http://www.oneononebike.com/). You can get coffee and get service. Don't expect a butt kissing though.
And if you are hungry, you can get a tasty sandwich to go with that coffee and service!!:D

[trogolodyte16]

Bikemasters is pretty near my house, north of Hwy 7, west of Wooddale. I've tried them a few times, haven't been impressed, they seem more oriented towards the comfort bike set.

Bummer - they used to be quite good - must be trending where the money is and the transplanted yuppies....:p - at least somone is profiting -

[Kayakoholic]

I'm just glad I'm on JJ's good side. ;)

I never have to tell him what's wrong with my bike; I just mumble something incoherent and knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's a telepathic connection.

Seriously, it does make all the difference in the world to know the mechanic, and, if the mechanic is a mountain biker, triple bonus.

[BKocka]

Whatever happened to Bikemasters?

Their service was spectacular - attitudes impeccable and timeliness of return on repairs incredible - yet where did they go? :confused:

Random, I know—but the woman that use to cut my hair dated a wrench from Bikemasters... I am under the impression that they closed a while back.


i second that. hollywood has always taken care of me and has never once given me attitude.


and i'll give that one a third. Also, the boys at Penn Cycle's Richfield location are good ones—ask for Seth or Martin. They might give you some attitude but they both are excelent mechanics that I know personally.

[Guest1]

—ask for Seth or Martin. They might give you some attitude but they both are excelent mechanics that I know personally.

Attitude eh?

What do they say,

Takes one to know one?

[Kayakoholic]

Attitude eh? What do they say, Takes one to know one?

You're such a smarta$$, Dan! :D

Bri is truly the only person I know who doesn't have an attitude!

[bike>>rider]

In addition to the mechs already mentioned, you can't go wrong with either Pete at Excel in the west metro or the guys at County Cycles in the north metro. BTW, awesome ad in the MORC newsletter - seriously.

I've never really had a problem with a mechanic. I say cut 'em some slack, I think most do a darn good job.

[BKocka]

Bri is truly the only person I know who doesn't have an attitude!

are you serious? That might be the nicest thing I have heard in a while... because word on the street is I am just as much of a smart-a as dan is.

[Kayakoholic]

I've never really had a problem with a mechanic. I say cut 'em some slack, I think most do a darn good job.

I agree. It's all in the approach, and that goes for anyone or anything. Treat the mechanics as you want to be treated, and above all, be respectful of them.

Despite the fact that I've been mountain biking for more than 20 years, I know next to nothing about the beasts and that's exactly how I want to keep it. I just know how to talk to mechanics, and, in all the years I've been taking my bikes to shops, I've never had a problem with them not listening to me or taking me seriously...Knock on wood!

[BKocka]

I just know how to talk to mechanics...

uhm........ you're a woman. You don't have to do much to make a male bike mechanic to listen to you. ;) :p

[Guest1]

are you serious? That might be the nicest thing I have heard in a while... because word on the street is I am just as much of a smart-a as dan is.

Hmmm,.....


That sounds like a challenge of my smart@$$ throne. :banana:

[Kayakoholic]

are you serious? That might be the nicest thing I have heard in a while... because word on the street is I am just as much of a smart-a as dan is.

You're much more subtle than Dan, but that will come with practice!

[BKocka]

Hmmm,.....


That sounds like a challenge of my smart@$$ throne. :banana:

no challenge here. I don't need a throne. Alright... I'm done hijacking now.

[Guest1]

You're much more subtle than Dan, but that will come with practice!

When I go subtle, it just goes over everyones heads.

[Kayakoholic]

[quote=Kayakaholic;203559]I just know how to talk to mechanics...[quote]

uhm........ you're a woman. You don't have to do much to make a male bike mechanic to listen to you. ;) :p

So you mean all these years, when I thought they were listenting to me, appreciating the way I respected their knowledge, they were really checking out my....:hit:

Bike mechanics are such pigs!*

*Except for JJ.

[JBergland]

I’ve been following this thread for a while and wanted to add a couple thoughts.
<o></o>
At just about any bike shop there is a give-and-take philosophy in place. Want good service AND positive attitudes?? Both are certainly possible, however it may require you to commit a certain amount of business towards them to get the full benefits. The more they know you and the more you stop by their shop for your needs, the better service you can expect.
<o></o>
I’ve had this discussion with a number of people and a common argument is that “I should get just as good a service as the next guy… my money is the same as his!” While that is true and I think most shop offer a certain level of service for ANYONE that comes through the door, REALITY is a little different. Good customers get the gold star treatment. You want that kind of treatment? Make sure you are a good customer.
<o></o>
Find a good shop and stick with them as much as possible. A good shop should meet as many of your needs as possible, but they likely won’t be able to meet ALL of them. Make sure you know what’s most important to you and look for those priorities in a shop.
<o></o>
JB

[Heuy]

I’ve been following this thread for a while and wanted to add a couple thoughts.
<O></O>
At just about any bike shop there is a give-and-take philosophy in place. Want good service AND positive attitudes?? Both are certainly possible, however it may require you to commit a certain amount of business towards them to get the full benefits. The more they know you and the more you stop by their shop for your needs, the better service you can expect.
<O></O>
I’ve had this discussion with a number of people and a common argument is that “I should get just as good a service as the next guy… my money is the same as his!” While that is true and I think most shop offer a certain level of service for ANYONE that comes through the door, REALITY is a little different. Good customers get the gold star treatment. You want that kind of treatment? Make sure you are a good customer.
<O></O>
Find a good shop and stick with them as much as possible. A good shop should meet as many of your needs as possible, but they likely won’t be able to meet ALL of them. Make sure you know what’s most important to you and look for those priorities in a shop.
<O></O>
JB


I definetly get that feeling while walking into many shops. This is why there is so much turn over in the bike shop business. Most normal businesses don't get to behave that way. Bike shops need to understand that you are not the only bike shop on the planet, and if you want my business you'll have to earn it just like everyone else does. As mentioned by others there are some shops that can produce, and others that can't. You can bet people who read this thread will patronize the shops with good reputations and not patronize those who don't.

[noise_is_life]

I definetly get that feeling while walking into many shops. This is why there is so much turn over in the bike shop business. Most normal businesses don't get to behave that way. Bike shops need to understand that you are not the only bike shop on the planet, and if you want my business you'll have to earn it just like everyone else does. As mentioned by others there are some shops that can produce, and others that can't. You can bet people who read this thread will patronize the shops with good reputations and not patronize those who don't.

That's exactly right, and frankly that is how I decide who gets my business. As you say there are a ton of bike shops around here, impress me from the start or I will move on. I tend to give shops that are convenient to me multiple shots at getting my business. Bikemasters for instance I've tried a number of times because they are so close (walking distance), but they have as yet to step up.

I walked into some little bike shop in Edina last summer and the were friendly and helpful right from the start. I didn't have to show up 10 times before I got good service.

[JBergland]

This is why there is so much turn over in the bike shop business. Most normal businesses don't get to behave that way. Bike shops need to understand that you are not the only bike shop on the planet, and if you want my business you'll have to earn it just like everyone else does.

First of all, bike shops are not a ‘normal business’ in just about every measurable way. Basic business practices don’t apply very well unless you talking about Penn/Eric’s.
<o></o>
Second, the turn over you speak of in the cycling industry is caused by a number of different things… lowball pricing over the net being one of the bigger ones. It’s pretty frustrating for a shop owner to see pricing on the net that is CHEAPER than his cost!!:(
<o></o>
Like I mentioned before, it’s all about give-and-take. Want the best service possible? Then you need to commit to giving a shop as much service as you can. That doesn’t mean in any way they don’t need to earn it. However, when they are able to earn your business, please try and give it to them on a regular basis. Does that mean ALL the time? Probably not… the internet and e-bay are sources of some pretty good deals. However, what kind of a price can you put on a shop that has good service, little (if any) attitude, and is a FUN place to stop by from time to time?
<o></o>
JB

[col200]

I frequently go to BM as well because it's close. I just keep hoping they'll come through for me but they fail every time. I think they've given up and look like they're gonna be closing soon. Too bad! Sucks to see any shop close down.

[Pete Hamer]

Random, I know—but the woman that use to cut my hair dated a wrench from Bikemasters... I am under the impression that they closed a while back.

That might be Jeff Nordstrom. He's at Erik's in SLP now.

[Thewavebb]

First of all, bike shops are not a ‘normal business’ in just about every measurable way. Basic business practices don’t apply very well unless you talking about Penn/Eric’s.
<O></O>
Second, the turn over you speak of in the cycling industry is caused by a number of different things… lowball pricing over the net being one of the bigger ones. It’s pretty frustrating for a shop owner to see pricing on the net that is CHEAPER than his cost!!:(.......?
<O></O>
JB
The Local bike shop isn't any different from other local stores trying to make a go at things. Hell, i'm a photographer and i'm constantly getting undercut by people. What questionable local bike shops don't leverage is the service. People value service more then the product themselves sometimes. Make them feel comfortable from day one. If you don't who in their right mind will go back to a shop that makes it unpleasant. If the person was planning to buy local anyways, your not competing against the internet. I expect quality service from day one, and I will pay for it. I have bought online before, but then I went to a shop and had them install it for me. They make more money that way normally anyways. ONline shops can't provide install service. Nobody can compete against the Walmarts of the world, but they can't provide the service and knowledge that a local shop can. Do you really think that the bike shop business is any different then a shop that sells car parts, camera gear, sporting goods? A local shop that can adapt and change its marketing/business plan will be successful. If not, they shouldn't be in business.

[newp]

Talking about service. I do 90% on all of my bikes, but last Thursday I had a broken axle and a race on Saturday. I went to Hollywood he had the parts the next day replaced the axle and a few other part in the wheel and sent me on my way. The service was fast and didn't cost me anymore if I would have did it myself, plus I got a few cool T's. Great service and fast.

[bigwheel]

Ageed about Hollywood really knowing his stuff. He was a lot of help when I was building the Karate Monkey, and gave me decent prices on the parts.

But I really pissed him off this fall, asking him to put in a 3-pugsley parts order for us. Ted had done a lot of research figuring out exactly which parts we wanted, and where to get the best deals on the internet. Ted had the list of part numbers, where to buy them from, and what was the best price. We were building three nearly identical bikes, and doing the entire build ourselves.

Before pulling the trigger on our Internet orders, I decided to give Hollywood a call and ask if he would put in the order for us. It made no difference to me, but I wanted to give the opportunity to a local shop to call in the order for us, and match the price. We were not asking for any favors, or any help building the bikes. Just take 10 minutes to call in one order to QBP. Even at the very low prices that Ted found, this would have been a $5,500 parts order in which Hollywood would have made $500-$1,000 just by putting in the order. Again, all I wanted to do is try to support a local shop rather than going through some faceless internet parts company.

Jay got really pissed off about this, giving me an earful about mountain bikers that show up with spreadsheets wanting him to match prices. Anyway, he would not place the order.

This surprised me, and I somehow feel sheepish about even asking him to place the order. I thought I was doing him a favor. We had nothing to gain, other than feeling good about supporting a local shop. In the end, the profit went to Jenson, Universal, and Pricepoint, and I lost an friend at an LBS.

[crux]

Have seen several times when the web is cheaper than cost for a LBS. Does it make sense to order online? Sure if you really are getting a better deal especially on hard to find items or if it is a few years old.

Now I'm not saying that the LBS is history, but since the web has become a major fixture rules for retailers have changed. Not just for cycling but all industries. Retailers need to adapt and offer more than just rock bottom prices, but an experience as well.

As Jay put it
"what kind of a price can you put on a shop that has good service, little (if any) attitude, and is a FUN place to stop by from time to time?"

Think that Jay and Gene are a bit ahead of the curve for a small shop offering good service and being a cool place to stop by and visit from time to time. Know that even with some industry connections I will drop in and spread the love to some local shops, but only those who I know the guy will treat me right. Not saying that I expect a bunch of ass kissing, but just be honest in the work that they do and know that when I get the work done it will be done right. (even if it comes with a bit of attitude, hell we all can't be chipper 100% of the time)

I'll step down from my soap box now.

[JBergland]

‘I have matt's back on this.’
<o></o>
Hmmmmm… maybe reread what I’ve posted. Sounds like we are in agreement on the major points more than we differ.
<o></o>
My message is a simple one… don’t try and read into something that isn’t there. If you find a bike shop that treats to well, give them as much business as you can. What you will likely get in return is even better service than you thought possible!! Give-and-take… win-win!!
<o></o>
JB

[Heuy]

Have seen several times when the web is cheaper than cost for a LBS. Does it make sense to order online? Sure if you really are getting a better deal especially on hard to find items or if it is a few years old. Now I'm not saying that the LBS is history, but since the web has become a major fixture rules for retailers have changed. Not just for cycling but all industries.
This is another one of those things where we'll look back and realize how silly the whole the internet is ruining our way of life arguement is in a few years and laugh. The two different businesses have different strengths and weaknesses. There are some things that the internet can do so much more effectively I belive in the future that the bike shops that want to survive will quit doing.
For example,
High-end universally interchangeable easy to install components. The best example I could come up for this is pre-built (Mavic FSA etc.)wheelsets. Why does it make sense for a bike shop to order the wheelset, have it sit until that rare customer who is willing and able to drop $600 on a set of wheels comes in.
If that customer can get it $150 cheaper on the internet they will do so and there's no amount of scolding them for it thats going to change that. Shops will in the future be more into the service end instead of the sales game especially high end. I know what shop Ben is talking about when he mentions
I have bought online before, but then I went to a shop and had them install it for me. They make more money that way normally anyways. ONline shops can't provide install service.
This used to be a struggling shop, but when it was taken over by the current management that is willing to embrace change it has since been doing a brisk business.
If your pricing structure is set-up corectly so that you don't have one department subsidizing another(sales versus service), how come a shop can't have a small inventory of common parts and do a brisk business of install work? I envision the shop of the future having more service bays and less inventory on the floor. Why did it take so long to get a shop that specializes in suspension? I know that's one thing where I would think a local shop has a huge advantage.
Ideally in the future company reps will be able to supply shops with all of the high-end demo bikes that they would want on a somewhat short notice and then after riding the demo you order your bike at a discount, the shop then makes money on the assembly, and service work.
The days of shops being able to inventory high-end and get 50% margins on it are over. You need to look at that Thopson Elite seatpost that's been sitting on the shelf since when the internet became prevelant. This used to be easy money and now its just not happening, you need to look forward not back. No one is going to un-invent the internet for you.
This also brings up an important point, that is what I call bike snobbery. Some shops don't want to talk to you unless you ride a full carbon Colnaglo or whatever. Doing that DRASTICALLY shrinks your customer base.
For example my sister wanted a cheap commuter bike when she went to the U of M. She told me sorry but bike guys are a bunch of wankers. She visitied several shops that didn't make a dime off of her until she found one that would listen to her and sell her what she needs.

[Thewavebb]

Before pulling the trigger on our Internet orders, I decided to give Hollywood a call and ask if he would put in the order for us. It made no difference to me, but I wanted to give the opportunity to a local shop to call in the order for us, and match the price. We were not asking for any favors, or any help building the bikes. Just take 10 minutes to call in one order to QBP. Even at the very low prices that Ted found, this would have been a $5,500 parts order in which Hollywood would have made $500-$1,000 just by putting in the order. Again, all I wanted to do is try to support a local shop rather than going through some faceless internet parts company.

This is exactly what I have done in the past with adventure cycle in Winona. These are normally larger orders and I pay them do do any install work. They made money, gave their workers something to do and I will recommend anybody in the winona area to them. They have always been super helpfull, even when I was a poor college kid looking for ghetto parts.

Sorry Jay if I missread your post....We probably are on agreement on most things.

[Specialeded]

"hollywood!!?!...."

[Standard]

Mechanics can be a touchy lot... :D

I will say, bringing a huge parts list to any shop and expecting them to match internet pricing is a bit on the sketchy side. Especially if you're not even going to let them do the install and charge the appropriate amount for labor, to make up for the extreme lack of profit on the SO parts. It doesn't take 10 minutes to do even a small order. It's not just picking up the phone and calling Q. There's plenty of other factors that make the margins even smaller.

[qheuie]

But I really pissed him off this fall, asking him to put in a 3-pugsley parts order for us. Ted had done a lot of research figuring out exactly which parts we wanted, and where to get the best deals on the internet. Ted had the list of part numbers, where to buy them from, and what was the best price. We were building three nearly identical bikes, and doing the entire build ourselves.

Before pulling the trigger on our Internet orders, I decided to give Hollywood a call and ask if he would put in the order for us. It made no difference to me, but I wanted to give the opportunity to a local shop to call in the order for us, and match the price. We were not asking for any favors, or any help building the bikes. Just take 10 minutes to call in one order to QBP. Even at the very low prices that Ted found, this would have been a $5,500 parts order in which Hollywood would have made $500-$1,000 just by putting in the order. Again, all I wanted to do is try to support a local shop rather than going through some faceless internet parts company.

Jay got really pissed off about this, giving me an earful about mountain bikers that show up with spreadsheets wanting him to match prices. Anyway, he would not place the order.

This surprised me, and I somehow feel sheepish about even asking him to place the order. I thought I was doing him a favor. We had nothing to gain, other than feeling good about supporting a local shop. In the end, the profit went to Jenson, Universal, and Pricepoint, and I lost an friend at an LBS.

I think just about any shop hates it when you try to get them to match an interhighway price. I don't blame them.
i understand that you were trying to support the local shop, but it may have just been presented wrong. you're probably better off making your list of parts without the interhighway prices and just asking for a quote. Don't even mention a price match, just ask for the best price considering the size of the order. If it's close to your other price go with the local. If not, go with the interhighway.

jay built a bike for me over the winter, i know his prices were higher than online, but i also know that if i have a problem he will fix it on the spot, no questions asked.
heck, i even have my own water bottle in his shop ( somewhere ) for when i stop in to shoot the shat.

blah blah blah... i like saving money just as much as the next guy but lately i sack up and go local to preserve the relationship. nothing better than walking into a shop and being able to hang out and talk bikes as long as you want.

p.s. i doubt you lost a friend, i certainly hope it takes more than that to turn two people against each other.

[mn_ultra_guy]

I agree with this to a point. I try and support Freewheel with all of my minor part's like tires, tubes, chains, etc. and any service I need done. I have given Freewheel 90% of my parts business since I moved back 10 months ago including a new rear wheel for MTB, rebuilding my rear SS wheel for my road SS. The other 10% goes to REI.

If you find a bike shop that treats to well, give them as much business as you can. What you will likely get in return is even better service than you thought possible!! Give-and-take… win-win!!
<o></o>
JB

[Paul Swenson]

For really bad service go to any bike shop in the metro area on the first nice weekend of the year. Yikes!!!!

Like most things in life I find timing to be everything. I try to hit up the shops during blizzards when the mechanics are sitting around bored.

[noise_is_life]

For really bad service go to any bike shop in the metro area on the first nice weekend of the year. Yikes!!!!

Like most things in life I find timing to be everything. I try to hit up the shops during blizzards when the mechanics are sitting around bored.

Actually I went a day or two after a blizzard.

I don't really know, but I expect there is lots of new bike building going on this time of year, especially in the bigger shops. I'm sure that could be a source of a certain amount of crabbiness.

[mara]

Don't forget the annual sacred shop ritual that kicks into high gear right about now: new employee training. :shocked:

[emcoda]

This is certainly a fascinating thread to read if you work at a shop. It does get very old hearing about mail order. I can also say most mechanics I know have tremendous pride in their work and when the season is cranking no one works harder.
I'll use Hollywood as an example. Do you think Jay has a Porsche parked out back that he drives out to his lake place at the end of the day? Or maybe Jay works his rear off trying to do his best, working to pay the bills. I can easily see why he would get frustrated when asked to match a mail order price that he probably won't make a dime on. I'm not justifying his actions one way or the other, I simply understand his frustration.

Here are a few things I think everyone should consider.
- I don't know of a single mail order company that helps to support MORC or the local scene... You?
- Your service business alone is not enough to keep a shop going. If you want your favorite shop to stay around you do need to support them fully. This includes paying a bit more for your parts at times.
- To each their own. There are a ton of great shops in town for all of the individual riders with individual needs. Large shops like Erik's and Penn do have some fantastic mechanics and quality service, so does Gene, so does Jay, so does etc., etc., etc... One may not be for you but another probably is.

Point is.... When you find the shop you are comfortable with support them. Give them a fair chance to keep your business.

Ride On,
Dave O

[bigwheel]

I don't know the specifics of other people's orders, but in our case, I happen to know that the Q build price was several hundred bucks cheaper than what we paid for our parts via the internet. Multiply that by 3 bikes, and we are talking some significant revenue for placing an order. There was no reason to read me the riot act.

Here are a few things I think everyone should consider.

I don't want to be so quick putting down the internet companies. When you call their order lines or customer service, you are more often than not, talking to enthusiastic bikers that I'm sure are not driving porches. Maybe at the very top, there is one person making a healthy living, but I'll bet that that person risked a lot to get to that position, and "Gets Paid Last", like most business owners. This is a very competitive business, so I doubt they are making a huge profit. Otherwise, someone else would step up and be willing to be a middle-man at a slightly lower profit.

About the MORC sponsorship, I will agree that the internet companies are not MORC sponsors, because they are national, not local. But most of the internet/mail order companies proudly display their corporate IMBA membership, so you cannot claim that they are doing nothing for the sport.

MORC has a lot of very nice sponsors in the twin cities. However, before defending your favorite LBS, find out if THEY are a MORC sponsor, and if their sponsorship level matches the size of the shop. Is their name on the MORC sponsor list? If so, then Thank You. If not, then why not? Do they have discounts for paid MORC members? If not, then don't tell me how much they have done for MORC. They are the ones profiting from MORC, and not giving back.

MORC builds the trails that are the reason the LBSs are selling bikes. The more difficult trails, like Leb, also cause plenty of broken parts and bikes that send a lot of business back to the LBSs.

Finally, some of us like to build and maintain our own bikes. We are the ones that buy a bike from an LBS, but don't even use our "free tune-up" coupons. We would like to support the LBSs, but if it means that we have to be treated as bad guys for trying to keep our costs down, then we have little incentive to shop at or recommend and LBS. We are not driving porches either, and don't feel that it is our responsibility to donate money to an LBS, just because it is an LBS. I'd rather donate my money to MORC, and shop from an internet company that is an IMBA sponsor.

I agree that if you are going to use the resources (brains, knowledge, inventory) of an LBS, that you should do your business with the LBS. But don't put down those of us that build and maintain our own bikes, just because we are trying to avoid overpaying for some parts.

[Pete Hamer]

If mail order prices and service work for you then go for it and don't appologize. If shops can't make money on high end customers they will stop catering to them.:)

A shop shouldn't get pissed because they can't earn a customers business. Customers shouldn't get pissed because shops charge what they need to charge. Neither should bash the other (at least not by name) on a public forum.:)

One thing I know for sure is that grumpy shop mechanics don't help the LBS's cause at all.:)

[high life]

If mail order prices and service work for you then go for it and don't appologize. If shops can't make money on high end customers they will stop catering to them.:)

A shop shouldn't get pissed because they can't earn a customers business. Customers shouldn't get pissed because shops charge what they need to charge. Neither should bash the other (at least not by name) on a public forum.:)


I agree 100%. Bike shop owners need to have a healthy respect for what the "market" dictates as it relates to product pricing. The carrying costs of high end inventory is quite high relative to the margins that can be charged for said product. However, many shops, including all of the ones I have worked for, are able to still sell the higher end components and accessories for a couple of reasons:

1.)Impulse buyers. They see it, touch it, and decide they must have it.

2.)"Relationship based buyers." They know that if they buy their equipment from their LBS, they will be granted the service and special attention that goes with it.

It doesn't do any good getting all "huffy puffy" about how the internets are going to ruin traditional commerce as we know it. It won't happen. Bike shops are not, and will never be, "low cost providers." They (retail bike stores in general) succeed because of customer service.


One thing I know for sure is that grumpy shop mechanics don't help the LBS's cause at all.:)

Right on, Pete! It's so true.

[Heuy]

I agree 100%. Bike shop owners need to have a healthy respect for what the "market" dictates as it relates to product pricing. The carrying costs of high end inventory is quite high relative to the margins that can be charged for said product. However, many shops, including all of the ones I have worked for, are able to still sell the higher end components and accessories for a couple of reasons:

1.)Impulse buyers. They see it, touch it, and decide they must have it.

2.)"Relationship based buyers." They know that if they buy their equipment from their LBS, they will be granted the service and special attention that goes with it.

It doesn't do any good getting all "huffy puffy" about how the internets are going to ruin traditional commerce as we know it. It won't happen. Bike shops are not, and will never be, "low cost providers." They (retail bike stores in general) succeed because of customer service.



Right on, Pete! It's so true.

A motion has been made and seconded. All in agreement say AYE!

AYE!!:)

[mn_ultra_guy]

AYE AYE Matey

[emcoda]

I do hope my post did not come across as negative towards anyone. Just providing some points to consider.

Dave O

[trogolodyte16]

Absolutely!;)

[Magic]

I don't know the specifics of other people's orders, but in our case, I happen to know that the Q build price was several hundred bucks cheaper than what we paid for our parts via the internet. Multiply that by 3 bikes, and we are talking some significant revenue for placing an order. There was no reason to read me the riot act.



I don't want to be so quick putting down the internet companies. When you call their order lines or customer service, you are more often than not, talking to enthusiastic bikers that I'm sure are not driving porches. Maybe at the very top, there is one person making a healthy living, but I'll bet that that person risked a lot to get to that position, and "Gets Paid Last", like most business owners. This is a very competitive business, so I doubt they are making a huge profit. Otherwise, someone else would step up and be willing to be a middle-man at a slightly lower profit.

About the MORC sponsorship, I will agree that the internet companies are not MORC sponsors, because they are national, not local. But most of the internet/mail order companies proudly display their corporate IMBA membership, so you cannot claim that they are doing nothing for the sport.

MORC has a lot of very nice sponsors in the twin cities. However, before defending your favorite LBS, find out if THEY are a MORC sponsor, and if their sponsorship level matches the size of the shop. Is their name on the MORC sponsor list? If so, then Thank You. If not, then why not? Do they have discounts for paid MORC members? If not, then don't tell me how much they have done for MORC. They are the ones profiting from MORC, and not giving back.

MORC builds the trails that are the reason the LBSs are selling bikes. The more difficult trails, like Leb, also cause plenty of broken parts and bikes that send a lot of business back to the LBSs.

Finally, some of us like to build and maintain our own bikes. We are the ones that buy a bike from an LBS, but don't even use our "free tune-up" coupons. We would like to support the LBSs, but if it means that we have to be treated as bad guys for trying to keep our costs down, then we have little incentive to shop at or recommend and LBS. We are not driving porches either, and don't feel that it is our responsibility to donate money to an LBS, just because it is an LBS. I'd rather donate my money to MORC, and shop from an internet company that is an IMBA sponsor.

I agree that if you are going to use the resources (brains, knowledge, inventory) of an LBS, that you should do your business with the LBS. But don't put down those of us that build and maintain our own bikes, just because we are trying to avoid overpaying for some parts.


Well stated Bob. I agree on most counts that you just stated. But I guess it all comes down to what I've always said, If you know how to wrench on your own bike, then buy your parts off the net, but if you can't wrench for yourself, then support the LBS. My LBS's get my buisness from me buying tubes and lubes.

[badandyruh]

aye, aye. word up. yea buddy, agreed!!!!





I agree 100%. Bike shop owners need to have a healthy respect for what the "market" dictates as it relates to product pricing. The carrying costs of high end inventory is quite high relative to the margins that can be charged for said product. However, many shops, including all of the ones I have worked for, are able to still sell the higher end components and accessories for a couple of reasons:

1.)Impulse buyers. They see it, touch it, and decide they must have it.

2.)"Relationship based buyers." They know that if they buy their equipment from their LBS, they will be granted the service and special attention that goes with it.

It doesn't do any good getting all "huffy puffy" about how the internets are going to ruin traditional commerce as we know it. It won't happen. Bike shops are not, and will never be, "low cost providers." They (retail bike stores in general) succeed because of customer service.



Right on, Pete! It's so true.

[mountainbike.exe]

Keep in mind this

No matter what is being sold competition is competition. It is everywhere from the cup of coffee you buy in the morning to the bike parts you buy on the weekend. If you were able to open the books of LBSs and the mail order giants I think you would see something similar....business is business and it takes hard work to make money. Some have risked more to gain more and vice versa.

The economy is changing. Remember when the only place to see new bike parts was a catalog once a month, magazine or your local bike shop? Now you're lucky if you don't get an email a day from someone selling bike parts online or locally. How many bike shops have stayed the same? How many have made changes with the economy? Instead of just a building w/ parts, now they have clinics, rides, seminars and a whole list of other things. How many mailorder companies and internet companies have made changes or gotten gobbled up by someone else? I have one friend that was an avid cyclist working for an internet retailer that got laid off after being their most successful salesman for several years. The internet company's owners weren't willing to make changes to stay afloat. They didn't go out of business but they came close and it's a company that i'm guessing everyone here knows. The times have changed and bike shops need to change w/ it. Just think of the music industry and how it's had to change to survive.

If all things were equal where would you go? If the answer is LBS then there has to be a reason you chose them over internet/mailorder. What is that reason worth? I'm guessing the biggest population of cyclists don't have time to research on the internet. They probably don't even know the difference between a front derailleur or hub. They want to trust someone to help them. That's where the local shop comes in. If you enjoy the thrill of the hunt and have the knowledge and time to do it then do it. Be careful parading your internet parts around your local shop. If they ask just tell them you bought it online and leave it at that. No one likes it rubbed in their face.

The season is short in the north. Bike shops need to make hay when the sun shines. Don't confuse helping other paying customers w/ getting snubbed. Most employees have some sort of supervisor making sure they are making money for the store.

Be careful when you talk about supporting a shop and helping them make $100 off of a $1000 sale. Think of the big players. If you walked into Best Buy to buy some stereo parts that normally cost 1000 and you told them you could buy it online for 700 what would they do? Lets assume they would make $100 off of the sale. Most likely they would kindly refer you to their website for closeouts or offer you some other options. Why? They know they can't make money like that. They know that there is a cost to doing business and if they are selling items that don't allow them to keep their stores open and profitable then they need to stop selling those items. On top of that I am kindly reminded by the traffic on 494 that Best Buy does play a large part in the MPLS area. They must be doing something right.

Lastly....You get what you pay for and nothing is free.