North Metro Meeting

[DmacBmac]

There are many new trail-building opportunities opening up to the Northern Metro Riders in the near future. With this exciting news in mind we are reaching out to our members across the north metro to gauge the amount of support we can anticipate to help build and maintain new trails. Many of us in the north have been waiting for these opportunities to open up to us. Here they are!!! This is our time to step up and show each other and the park systems how serious we are about building and maintaining new trails in our area.
With that said I encourage all northern riders to attend this meeting. The meeting will be used as a tool to update and inform members about upcoming trail building opportunities in the north.



Where: Caribou Coffee in Little Canada. Just South of 694 on Rice St.



When: 7:00 p.m. Thursday March 8th.



Who: Everyone who wants mountain bike trails in the North Metro.


1. Enough with what we want. Lets focus on opportunities we know we have!
-Fridley
-Elm Creek
-Rice Creek?
-Coon Rapids Dam
2. How many volunteers are needed for each new trail?



3. Timeline?

[Nickel]

D a y ? ?

asdfsdf

[RiverRat]

Is there a date associated with this event yet?

[TrailPatrol]

Don,
Considering that most of what we are working on is in Anoka County, and most of the folks showing up, at least at the last meeting live up here, couldn't we hold it at a Caribou closer to "the action", like Northtown or Blaine?

As for where we are, one word can basically sum up where everything was left: "Winter." For CR Dam, Rice Creek-Chain of Lakes and Rum River Central, Troy L. has the maps that I GPS'd back in the fall and Mike L. is just waiting on me to head back out and finish GPSing. (Is that a word?) Maybe I should just put the GPS on my ski pack and head out, now that we're rumored to get snow.

Motion that we hold the meeting in Anoka County....and we give a day and date, as well at 7:00 PM.

Ski safe,
:banana:
Hans

[DmacBmac]

Hans,

I thought the turn out at the Caribou Coffee was much more successful than the Coon Rapids Dam. We are hoping to gather all North Metro Riders to inform them of future activities. Those who are willing to travel to Caribou will be willing to travel to the Coon Rapids Dam or other project areas that may not be in right in their back yard. Caribou seems to be a ideal place to meet because of our previous turn out.

Don

Sorry about not posting the date.

[krazykatie]

Who: Everyone who wants mountain bike trails in the North Metro.



That would be ME! I will mark this in my calendar but it depends on the little ones schedule that week.

[TrailPatrol]

I was not suggesting the Dam park again, just a Caribou (Dunn Bros, Starbucks--ick--or whatever) north of 694 someplace. I think you can still get a good turn out if we meet at say the Caribou in Mounds View, across from CARS Bike Shop. (Old Hwy 10 and CoRd I) Besides, I know the manager there. It's another old Hardees, so it has room to meet.

Hans

[DmacBmac]

Without seeming confrontational I have already booked us a meeting room at the Little Canada Caribou. Lets keep the same date and let the people answering the thread decide where they would like to meet. That way we have the best of both worlds.

[SprocketHead]

Either place is fine with me :)

And, yes. We do have some things planned,,,, but, it wouldn't hurt to meet, just to build excitement & involvement.

..See you there.

[JayT]

I'm with Hans. The Blaine/Northtown area is more central.

[looper]

There is a caribou in Fridley across from northtown on University Ave. in the same building as Panera. BTW, Any hopes of trail development in the old armory space north of 96?

[trogolodyte16]

There is a caribou in Fridley across from northtown on University Ave. in the same building as Panera. BTW, Any hopes of trail development in the old armory space north of 96?

The 'old armory space north of 96' you speak of was an area I had offered assistance to MORC in developing back in '02, I then deployed to Iraq -
During my conversation with an older gent, whose name escapes me now (must be the anthrax shot x7), he was fairly convinced nothing could happen.

I again offer my assistance to MORC in making this happen - I return from second tour here in Iraq soon and would love to help - maybe that older gent recalls our conversation and sees this post here -

The area in question is the Arden Hills training area - and it is off limits to civilians - I'd say that's about 99% of you reading this - that doesn't mean development of a mountain bike trail cannot happen - you just need to have the right sponsor, plan and effort and it will happen - ;)

S/F,

Bill

[DmacBmac]

I don't recall who told me about this, maybe Don Y. This person told me even if we were allowed to build trails in the armory it would be up to Military when we would get to use it. Which the way it sounded wouldn't be very much...almost never on the weekends. So pursuing this just wasn't a wise move.

[looper]

I know that the place used to be a superfund site c/o lots of detonated and undetonated ordinance. Seems like I remember that being the issue / impedence to opening it up to the general public. It would be a great site for singletrack given the elevation. Also, having grown up in Fridley and ridden losts around the CR dam, and along the Rice Creek watershed, sand will likely be a long term challange to heavy traffic. BTW: Thanks Bill, get back safely!!!!

[TrailPatrol]

Troy Lawrence has been central to all these discussions about the north metro. Where'd he go?

Hans

[Brick]

The area in question is the Arden Hills training area - and it is off limits to civilians - I'd say that's about 99% of you reading this - that doesn't mean development of a mountain bike trail cannot happen - you just need to have the right sponsor, plan and effort and it will happen - ;)


Let's just say that the training optempo for the Guard is going to be extremely high for the forseeable future given the new deployment rules coming down from the Department of the Army. The liklihood of the State surrendering a prime metro area training site to public access is slim.

HOWEVER--that doesn't mean that the area still can't be developed as an "event" type venue (races, etc). The issue is most likely access control. Scheduled use may be the best way to approach the problem. A scheduled event has set hours, and when complete, the gates can be locked, ensuring that no-one is "downrange" when there is training scheduled for the site.

e.

[DmacBmac]

Troy Lawrence has been central to all these discussions about the north metro. Where'd he go?

Hans

Troy has a lot on his plate. He and I have discussed some one else taking a leadership role on this project. I have volunteered myself and he feels I am up for the task.

Lets plan to meet at the above location( Little Canada) it is booked and the fee has been paid. I will be more than will to move the meetings to a new location in the future.

Hope to see you all there, Don

[trogolodyte16]

Let's just say that the training optempo for the Guard is going to be extremely high for the forseeable future given the new deployment rules coming down from the Department of the Army. The liklihood of the State surrendering a prime metro area training site to public access is slim.

HOWEVER--that doesn't mean that the area still can't be developed as an "event" type venue (races, etc). The issue is most likely access control. Scheduled use may be the best way to approach the problem. A scheduled event has set hours, and when complete, the gates can be locked, ensuring that no-one is "downrange" when there is training scheduled for the site.

e.

While I agree with this fella's (Eric in Tallil) generalized statements they are not accurate. To the laymen and wanton north metro trail riders the fact is that the area in question can be used with proper planning and careful stewardship - not uncommon themes to these forums, a singletrack trail could be carved out. This area is not used for live-fire - meaning the guard, nor army reserve or other services don't fire live bullets - this is good - means more area to use.

The national guard has most of its troops out of the country as federalized warriors (which is beyond my comprehension) and upon their collective return they will train at places like Ripley - not necessarily Arden Hills.

So rather than giving up as has been suggested above, why not make the effort to create a trail at the Arden Hills facility? :)

[Brick]

While I agree with this fella's (Eric in Tallil) generalized statements they are not accurate.

As a 20 year MN Guardsman I've seen first hand for years how the Guard manages its land (pretty well, and we're pretty proud of it if I do say so myself:)), and have worked with land owners to try to open local training areas for use by units. (please sir, can we drive our tanks on your land?? :crazy:) <--shockingly this has worked in the past.....

My suggestion is to look at how other Guard land is currently used, and base any requests for use, on models that the Guard is comfortable with. Currently Ripley is open for "events" (Minnesota Biathlon and the local high school nordic ski programs use Ripley fairly heavily) and is accessible to groups on a request basis. I would suspect that it's not used as heavily as it could be because no-one thinks to ask to use it.

The national guard has most of its troops out of the country as federalized warriors (which is beyond my comprehension) and upon their collective return they will train at places like Ripley - not necessarily Arden Hills.

Actually about 2/3 of our strength is still in the state (the Reserves are struggling with numbers however)--and on our return, our need for Ripley, and other local training sites like Arden Hills will only increase. Making a trip to Ripley for most units is a once, maybe twice a year affair due to travel time and cost. As you know, it's to a commander's advantage to get his Joes in a training environment as often as they can. It's more likely to happen if there's one close by.

So rather than giving up as has been suggested above, why not make the effort to create a trail at the Arden Hills facility? :)

I never said "give up"--I said "change the question".

[the_tessa]

I'll probably be there.

[Don Youngdahl]

My apologies for the long post, but it's a long story. The "armory" referred to by Looper and others is the old New Brighton Arsenal, actually located in Arden Hills, generally know as Twin City Arms & Ammunition Plant (TCAAP).

The land is owned by the U.S. Army, and under the control of the Minnesota National Guard. Having heard of the U.S. Army policy of seeking to make their land more accessable to the public,I contacted a National Guard Officer in August 2001 to discuss the possibility of mountain bike access at TCAAP. Scheduling constraints and vacations prevented a meeting until about September 18, 2001, and a meeting was arranged with Captain F--, the training scheduling officer at TCAAP. It was a very cordial meeting, as Captain F was a mountain bike rider who supported the prospect of trails there. We visited and rode at Lebanon Hills, where he was impressed with MORC's efforts in building our first single track there.

I was allowed controlled but unescorted access to the TCAAP for the next two months to develop a trail proposal. On one of my several visits, I encountered a top civilian administrator with the Minnesota Nation Guard, who was also quite friendly. I believe Troy Lawrence was with me on at least one visit, and he helped me produce a map with a proposed 10 mile loop. The area contains some unique features and one high and narrow ridge that would be unlike any trail in the metro area.

In Mid-November, the rules changed to require escorted access only. That ended my visits, as we had enough information to produce our proposed route, and the National Guard certainly had enough to occupy them in that post-9-11 era.

The proposal was submitted for consideraton by army planners working on some vaguly described "master plan". In the next year or two, I made several followup calls to my two contacts regarding the status of our proposal, and I always got a vague answer that the plan would be finished & routed for approval "soon".

In the initial stages of our discussion, Captain F had informed me that in 2000 there had been only 3 weekends between April and November when there was not outdoor training of some sort at TCAAP. He also believed it would not be feasible to plan and allow limited weekend access which would separate mountain bikers and military trainees.

So now we were projecting a trail system that would be available during daylight hours weekdays, and only a few weekends during the main riding season. He also suggested a card-access gate, with possibly some security screening and the requirement of riders to renew their card monthly or quarterly. In spite of these constraints, I thought it worthwhile to submit a trail proposal.

Although I live only 2 1/2 miles from TCAAP, the above reasons explain why I think TCAAP has a relatively low benefit/cost ratio compared to other trail initiatives on MORC's plate. That said, if anyone can convince the MORC Board to make TCAAP a priority, I'll support anyone that steps forward to take the lead.

Not wishing to end on a negative note, I'll post another thread with some more positive thoughts on TCAAP.

Don Youngdahl

[trogolodyte16]

As a 20 year MN Guardsman I've seen first hand for years how the Guard manages its land (pretty well, and we're pretty proud of it if I do say so myself:)), and have worked with land owners to try to open local training areas for use by units. (please sir, can we drive our tanks on your land?? :crazy:) <--shockingly this has worked in the past.....

My suggestion is to look at how other Guard land is currently used, and base any requests for use, on models that the Guard is comfortable with. Currently Ripley is open for "events" (Minnesota Biathlon and the local high school nordic ski programs use Ripley fairly heavily) and is accessible to groups on a request basis. I would suspect that it's not used as heavily as it could be because no-one thinks to ask to use it.



Actually about 2/3 of our strength is still in the state (the Reserves are struggling with numbers however)--and on our return, our need for Ripley, and other local training sites like Arden Hills will only increase. Making a trip to Ripley for most units is a once, maybe twice a year affair due to travel time and cost. As you know, it's to a commander's advantage to get his Joes in a training environment as often as they can. It's more likely to happen if there's one close by.



I never said "give up"--I said "change the question".

Can't we all just get along? Create trails and ride them?:D

[DanB]

I don't live in the North Metro area but I would like to attend. This area has a very high sentimental significance to me and I would love to be involved in helping in any way that I can.

[homebrewbiker]

I do live in the north metro and am excited to see more riding opportunities closer to home! So I am planning on attending.

[TML]

Troy Lawrence has been central to all these discussions about the north metro. Where'd he go?

Hans

Troy's here. He's just been out of town for a long weekend.

Don, thanks for getting this all set up. It'll serve as a good update to those interested in helping out as we gain some momentum in our northern opportunities.

[TrailPatrol]

Troy's here. He's just been out of town for a long weekend.

Does Troy always refer to himself in the third person now? ;)

Hans

[TML]

Does Troy always refer to himself in the third person now? ;)

Hans

Not always, he's just tryin' it out. ;)

[Brick]

Can't we all just get along? Create trails and ride them?:D

No worries man--keep your head down!

[DanB]

Not always, he's just tryin' it out. ;)

Dan thinks Troy talking in the third person is cheesy and wrong. Dan would never try and pull such a stunt! :D

[DmacBmac]

Just thought I would post up to remind everyone to come out to the meeting Thursday.

[DanB]

Just thought I would post up to remind everyone to come out to the meeting Thursday.

I'll be there.

[TrailPatrol]

I'll be there unless I have to be at North EMS. (Doubtful, since they didn't call today.)

Troy, if you are coming, bring those maps I GPS'd last fall.

Hans

[TML]

I'll be there unless I have to be at North EMS. (Doubtful, since they didn't call today.)

Troy, if you are coming, bring those maps I GPS'd last fall.

Hans

Looks like I'll be able to make it so I'll Bring 'em.

[Thewavebb]

I would like to come, But I have to be at work till 9pm at least on thursday. However, in the future, I would like to help get trails built up on the north side. I live in Coon Rapids and its fair distance to most trails. I have every friday off and would be happy to do whatever I can.

[toolmaker]

I am in too. I have not been to a meeting yet and would love to meet some people in the area that bike. I do hope that this will be a relatively child friendly meeting. ( my wife has to work so I have my kids all night)

[Panman]

I'll try to make it.

[Stonehenge]

Troy Lawrence has been central to all these discussions about the north metro. Where'd he go?
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 8888888
He took the maps and disapeared like Magic.

I may or may not be able to make the meeting, would like to.( directions? crossroads? major landmarks? )

[mara]

Troy Lawrence has been central to all these discussions about the north metro. Where'd he go?

Troy is out singlehandedly saving the world. Okay, maybe just mountain biking as we know it.

As far as I know, Troy is stilll around and still very involved, but since there are other very able people to help lead this project, I believe he is allowing them to do so.

[Stonehenge]

Troy is out singlehandedly saving the world. Okay, maybe just mountain biking as we know it.

As far as I know, Troy is stilll around and still very involved, but since there are other very able people to help lead this project, I believe he is allowing them to do so.


"Saving the world"....wow I guess you do know Magic or at least his talk the talk. And you are right about allowing others to step up and help with other projects. That will broaden the vollunteer base and allow Magic to RIDE the RIDE. Oh yeah....cant wait to see/ ride the new "Magic valley" section at Afton when he gets done with it. :)

[TML]

Troy is out singlehandedly saving the world. Okay, maybe just mountain biking as we know it.


Guess I best get going on that. ;)



I may or may not be able to make the meeting, would like to.( directions? crossroads? major landmarks? )

Dave if you're referring to maps of where we're meeting, it's the Caribou in Little Canada. SE corner of Rice St. and 694.

[TML]

"Saving the world"....wow I guess you do know Magic or at least his talk the talk. And you are right about allowing others to step up and help with other projects. That will broaden the vollunteer base and allow Magic to RIDE the RIDE. Oh yeah....cant wait to see/ ride the new "Magic valley" section at Afton when he gets done with it. :)

The "Magic" you refer to woud be Sierakowski. Both of us have been known to have tricks up our sleeve though. :D

[Nickel]

Does this route look sketchy to you Northerners?

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=754553

[funky-funky-chicken]

Actually, you've picked a very good route. I added just a slight modification. Keep going on Roselawn all the way to Victoria instead of heading north on Lexington. Then a little minor change off Victoria to West Owasso Blvd to avoid a bit of Victoria.

I think that it will be a while until the Gateway is clear, but I extended your route a bit to give you a nice big circle route that is a nice one. There are innumerable options for great road riding in Washington County.

Check this one out: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=755065

[Smurf]

Shoot.....just saw this thread. I'd like to be there tonight, but I have to go to parent/teacher conferences (dang kids ;) :D ).....

[dvo1]

Does this route look sketchy to you Northerners?

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=754553


Oh I am in love with that link, I would have no problem riding the route you listed.

I have always wondered what some of my urban rides are for distance.

This is the typical route,

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=755131

Extra points if you can name the four stops I make.

[Nickel]

Actually, you've picked a very good route. I added just a slight modification. Keep going on Roselawn all the way to Victoria instead of heading north on Lexington. Then a little minor change off Victoria to West Owasso Blvd to avoid a bit of Victoria.

I think that it will be a while until the Gateway is clear, but I extended your route a bit to give you a nice big circle route that is a nice one. There are innumerable options for great road riding in Washington County.

Check this one out: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=755065

Ah, thanks for the info. Before the snow came, I had done plenty of route exploration in the south metro but did nothing in the north so I am looking forward to exploring once the ice goes away.

Oh I am in love with that link, I would have no problem riding the route you listed.

I have always wondered what some of my urban rides are for distance.

This is the typical route,

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=755131

Extra points if you can name the four stops I make.

Yeah it is really helpful for planning out routes and prevents me from getting too overzealous with my trips! If the 4 stops are businesses, I will likely have no clue. :cryin:

[funky-funky-chicken]

There are many new trail-building opportunities opening up to the Northern Metro Riders in the near future. With this exciting news in mind we are reaching out to our members across the north metro to gauge the amount of support we can anticipate to help build and maintain new trails. Many of us in the north have been waiting for these opportunities to open up to us. Here they are!!! This is our time to step up and show each other and the park systems how serious we are about building and maintaining new trails in our area.
With that said I encourage all northern riders to attend this meeting. The meeting will be used as a tool to update and inform members about upcoming trail building opportunities in the north.

Where: Caribou Coffee in Little Canada. Just South of 694 on Rice St.
When: 7:00 p.m. Thursday March 8th.
Who: Everyone who wants mountain bike trails in the North Metro.

1. Enough with what we want. Lets focus on opportunities we know we have!
-Fridley
-Elm Creek
-Rice Creek?
-Coon Rapids Dam
2. How many volunteers are needed for each new trail?
3. Timeline?

Bumped the information back to the top. I didn't even realize from the title of this thread that the meeting was tonight! Yikes... sometimes I am such a dumb @$$. So, yes, I will be there.

[Panman]

Do you need a minutes taker again? How late do you think this will go?

[TrailPatrol]

I believe the store closes at 9:00, so it can't go any later than that.

:banana:

[RiverRat]

Ah, thanks for the info. Before the snow came, I had done plenty of route exploration in the south metro but did nothing in the north so I am looking forward to exploring once the ice goes away.



Yeah it is really helpful for planning out routes and prevents me from getting too overzealous with my trips! If the 4 stops are businesses, I will likely have no clue. :cryin:


As of saturday, W. Owasso blvd. was really rough from poor plowing. Victoria is lightly traveled in that area, and was clear on saturday. take a peak down W. Owasso before turning right onto it. If it looks clear, go for it.

[DmacBmac]

Here we come Caribou!!

[Nickel]

Great meeting -- Thanks for the route tips. I ventured down County C on the way home and WOW it is a mess. I got a lesson on what it is like to bike on ice too (no studs).

Da' route: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=756713

I wish hills could be simulated on a trainer!

[DanB]

That was great tonight! Thanks to all the organizers involved and it was cool to see the turnout. There really is a lot of opportunity and it's exciting to think about just how much better it is going to get when I already think what we have is great!!!

[krazykatie]

Sorry i was unable to make it last night. I was completely wiped out last night(school work:sick: ) Dan gave me the run down, thanks Dan! You can count me in for trail work!

[Smurf]

Well, so what's the scoop?? Is somebody going to put out meeting minutes?

[funky-funky-chicken]

I think it would be extremely helpful if someone familiar with potential opportunities were able to provide a listing an approximate location (and map reference.)

I am personally the least familiar with the NW Metro. I would attempt to post the information, but I really don't know where these locations are and I'm a map reference kind of person.

[Panman]

Well, so what's the scoop?? Is somebody going to put out meeting minutes?
I will post some minutes that I took. Althought I KNOW that I didn't catch everything. We flew through so many things but I have the main rundown. Try to get it up tonight.

[Smurf]

Thanks Ryan.

[fisherbikefreak]

I couldn't make the meeting last night. Partially because I didn't realize when the meeting was going to be held. Anways... I'm a willing tool handler for N. metro trails.

[TrailPatrol]

One thing we didn't discuss last night, although I think the header on Don's agenda for the meeting kinda hints at it ("North Metro Riders") is the possibility of a MORC chapter, similar to MOCA, in the Anoka-Ramsey-North Hennepin area.

I know we need to actually get some trails on the ground, but Innsbruck and the Dam park will be a good start. What does anyone think about another chapter a year or so from now?

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[TML]

Great meeting last night everyone. Glad so many were able to make it!


On the Chapter notion- I think we are a long way from that at the moment. And it's not necessarily where we need to go. If we have some amazing level of growth years down the road, it sure could be a possibility but at this point it's probably best that we just put all efforts into the dirty work needed in the field rather than the busy work of forming a chapter. Just my 2 cents.

The MOCA chapter was formed out of Mpls park board necessity. It's not necessarily the intent of MORC to have multiple metro chapters. Years down the road it could be different, but for now its probably best to just stick together. Another 2 cents I guess:)

[TrailPatrol]

Another 2 cents I guess:)


You were overcharged.

:banana:
Hans

[Nickel]

Just interested in any updates.

[50 Merc]

Thank you all for a wonderful event on Saturday. I had a chance to speak with John and Dan about opportunities in the North Metro and I am very excited. I hear that this section of the Metro was a major topic of discussion at the Summit and I look forward to helping in any way. After reading this thread, it sounds like there are a few parks that are still moving forward and I would appreciate any info anyone can supply.

[Nickel]

If you live in Roseville, I would strongly recommend looking into this volunteer experience as it may hold some hope for getting the mountain biking ban off the books.

http://www.cityofroseville.com/index.asp?NID=1013