The Focus of MORC (Pick 2-3 only if you can)

[gopherhockey]

This is just an un-official poll to see where people see MORC's focus in the next few years and beyond. Where should the organization be putting its time and efforts into... are we a different organization today than we were yesterday, and if so how should that be reflected in our focus, motto, tagline, budgets, mission statement etc. Discussion is encouraged.

Vote for as many as you like... perhaps try to stick to your top 3 if you can. I'm sure there is a place for many of these and more issues, but really concentrate on the core focus of what you think MORC should be about.

Remember that our "tagline" is currently "Gaining and Maintaining Trails"... but the organization is growing and changing. Maybe it still fits, maybe it doesn't?

Do you feel there are primary focuses and perhaps secondary ones?

[Shorty]

IMO gaining and maintaining trails should be the primary focus.

I see the rest of them as secondary, but very important ways to increase MORC's ability to gain and maintain trails.

[Kosk]

I think MORC should be about growing and diversifying the membership base along with our funding via more social events, races, group rides, and merchandise sales so that we then have more bodies and more funds to maintain our current trails and gain more opportunities for new trails. More bodies equal more knowledge, more resources, more networking, and a stronger voice, which all translates into more opportunities.

Other than that, I think we should focus on jumps, lots of jumps.

[Beau]

I picked the first two, statewide growth and getting more people into it.

Getting more people would be my first priority. More people= a larger, more powerful voice. The rest of the options will follow if there are more people.

[FarmerBEN]

I feel that youth recruitment should be top priority, bring mt biking into the "mainstream" that football, baseball, basketball now seem to monopolize.

[Beau]

Yes Ben. That's a very good idea! Maybe have MORC work with schools and alternative programs. There's lot of money and support when organizations help youth.

Like Pete said, "I think MORC should be about growing and diversifying the membership base".

Bottom line I think is more members and more people. The more people, the easier it would be to maintain and gain more trails. I also think that MORC should expand and have satellites in other parts of the state, and not just confined to the Twin Cities area.

[gopherhockey]

Yes Ben. That's a very good idea! Like Pete said, "I think MORC should be about growing and diversifying the membership base".

Bottom line I think is more members and more people. The more people, the easier it would be to maintain and gain more trails. I also think that MORC should expand and have satellites in other parts of the state, and not just confined to the Twin Cities area.

So are you saying Gaining and Maintaining trails is the primary focus, and the others are secondary to feed the primary focus?

Question being, if we grow the membership is it to just have more people, or is there a real focus behind greater numbers.

Should social events, as one example, be right up there with gaining new trails?

Should gaining new trails happen regardless of our ability to maintain existing trails?

Do we focus too much on trails?

These are all just random questions... many of which I myself struggle with from time to time...

[BKocka]

I voted for gaining and maintaining trails because without the trails we wouldn't have MORC or Minnesota Mountain Biking in general (or at least not accepted singletrack, etc.), and second was Diversity Issues. To get more user groups involved in the sport and the work behind it you need to be diversified and open to different people- this can be obtained in many ways including racing, social events, group rides, etc. I think those types of events should fall under that issue. I would like to personally see MORC grow in reaching Minnesota's different user groups because without them we wouldnt have people to ride the trails or build them, and without trails we wouldn't have MORC. it all goes hand in hand.

[Kosk]

Question being, if we grow the membership is it to just have more people, or is there a real focus behind greater numbers.

We've got the system down as far as how to build and sustain trails, we've proven that several times. And we've been relatively successful in gaining new trail opportunities this year, and appear to have several things lined up for years to come. Frankly, I feel we are gaining trail faster than we can maintain it at this point. I fell we soon will have a serious lack of bodies to do all the work that will be MORC's collective responsibility.

Sure it's great to have gaining and maintaining trails as a focus, but what good is that focus if there is nobody around to actually do it?

We need numbers, and we need them fast. The effect of focusing on growing our membership through whatever means is ultimately that we will have more people to spread the work load on; maintainance, LM relations, new trails, recruiting, etc. I think our current model is going to quickly get drowned in responsibility: Not many other organizations have board members who are also web masters who are also trail stewards who are also dirt bosses who are also event coordinators, who are also......you get the idea.

The trails can only benefit from us focusing on getting more people involved.

[gopherhockey]

I guess what I'm looking for isn't where we want to focus in 2007 or 2008, but generally where MORC should be focusing as an organization long-term.

I agree with shifts of priority, but do we need to change our main focus as a group to accomplish this?

I also feel part of getting a new trail brings the requirement of finding membership and support in those areas. It can't be separated really. To me, gaining a new trail means not only finding the land and getting approval but also having people there to do the work.

I'm surprised gaining new trails continues to lead maintaining existing ones. If we drop our responsibilities on our existing trails it may backfire on our new trail efforts.

... again, this is just more food for thought. Its difficult to pinpoint just 2-3 focus areas. Maybe focus isn't the word I meant to use, but its a good poll all the same.

[Buck]

The trails can only benefit from us focusing on getting more people involved.


In the process of the new body hunt though we can't forget our current trail builders and other vounteers that are out there right now getting stuff done. I'd like to see some kind of incentive program for the peeps that are out there every time getting it done. We can't forget that without the peeps we have now we'd be no where.

L8Rz
Buck

[Beau]

without the trails we wouldn't have MORC or Minnesota Mountain Biking in general.

Yeah, but MORC only occupies a VERY SMALL percentage of the trails in MN and an even smaller percentage of the riders.

If there isn't anyone to ride the trails, there's no use (or need) in having them and maintaining them.

[syntaxjunkie]

I think it's important to try to bring people into mountain biking. But I think our initial focus should be on converting people who are already mountain bikers into members. These folks are easier to reach, and already understand the value of a well-designed, well-maintained trail system. At just under 800 members, it's safe to say we haven't tapped out the entire mountain biking population of the metro area, much less the state at large.

[Beau]

Pete, I agree with that whole post!

We've got the system down as far as how to build and sustain trails...

...The trails can only benefit from us focusing on getting more people involved.

[bike>>rider]

Question for board members:

What is MORC presently more in need of: additional members or additional funding?

I know, both would be great, but if one or the other were targetted, which would take priority?

Realizing that new members provide new $$ with their new memberships, what I mean by additional funding is encouraging renewals at higher membership levels or other types of fundraisers among existing members (e.g., raffles, merchandise sales, contests, pledges for group ride/event type programs, buy a worker a pizza program, trail work sponsorships, etc.).

[crux]

Gaining trails should be our primary focus. Regardless if we are adding milage or features to existing trails or completly new trails. Without trails there is no MORC we would be MRC (Minnesota Road Cyclist).

Maintaining quality trails is a motherhood type of activity, lesser trails will eventually die out. This is not to say that this is not important, but with out new trails people will lose interest after their 10th lap at trail XYZ for the day.

Social events and attracting new members will take care of itself with a sound foundation. Merchandise is nothing with out people to stand behind the orginization and build the trails. Respect is something that we will earn over time and needs constant maintnance as it can be lost in an instant.

State wide organizational growth will take time and is already taking place on a smaller scale as various groups decide to join MORC (ie Blast).

Of course all this takes time effort and $$$. Think that MORC can gain more ground (pun intended) if we stick to one common focus of building sustainable trails. This takes care of the time and effort, as for $$$ MORC has membership fees and a few events thru the year (that I'm aware of), if we were to have our own CO-OP (gear) this could both provide for funds for both MORC and helping us out by supporting ourselves. This worked well out in Stateline and could see a benificial partnership with some local companies.

Think this Old coot has ranted enough for now.

[syntaxjunkie]

At the risk of getting on my favorite soapbox again, we don't build and maintain trails just for the sake of having them – we do it so that people have places to ride. As important as it is to "gain and maintain trails," we can't lose sight of the reason we do it: it all come back to riders and riding experiences.

Growing as an organization gives us the ability to take on more and more ambitious trail projects – creating new opportunities for people to discover the sport and improve their skills. Reaching out beyond the metro area is essential for us to have credibility as a statewide advocacy group.

We're just beginning to turn a very important corner: land managers and rider groups are coming to us, asking for our help in creating new trails or establishing a MORC chapter. We're going to need a lot of very committed members to take advantage of these opportunities and do them justice.

[gopherhockey]

"Gaining, Maintaining, and RIDING trails..." ? :D ;)

[Aaroneous]

I think a lot of the choices could be simply grouped into one heading: Public Relations.

I'm constantly amazed at the number of people I meet (non-cyclists, granted) that have absolutely NO IDEA that there are legal, maintained trails within the metro area.

Also, the percentage of the general public that doesn't even have a concept of what mountain biking actually IS is staggering.

It's not just about educating MTBers, or other cyclists, it's about getting MTBing into the public light and establishing ourselves as a legitimate, accepted user group. And as a fun, family-friendly activity that almost anyone can do and enjoy.

I whole-heartedly agree with Pete: increased awareness = more riders = increased membership = more trailworkers = more voices = more trails

[gopherhockey]

I whole-heartedly agree with Pete: increased awareness = more riders = increased membership = more trailworkers = more voices = more trails

I hear a lot of people saying these types of things but can't help but see "more trails" being the end result.

Yes, absolutely do all the other things.. but to what end.

We are making people aware of our sport and aware of MORC for a reason. Whats that reason? What is the end result.... do people really want MORC to stop focusing on building and maintaining trails for a while and turn into a PR organization? Where is that trail fairy when we need them....

Can MORC be ALL of these things and still survive as an organization? I think we have all seen organizations grow only to lose themselves.

I do think its time MORC is know as more than just a trailbuilding group... but I'm not sold yet on what that one or two other important focal points should be and if they are strong enough to belong in our tagline etc.

I'm still just trying to stir up the conversation...

[Buck]

Maybe it'd be easier to name what we don't want to be. :D

L8Rz
Buck

[tedsti]

My take on part of this is that I don't need an organization to help me ride my bike. I have been doing that fine on my own. I(we) do need an organization to keep our existing trails open and to gain access to new areas.

Getting more people on bikes is a means to an end. In the end what we really want is access to trails to ride our bike.

[bigwheel]

For me, it's Gaining and Maintaining Trails. Although I have a lot of new friends because of MORC, I did not join it as a social club. I see MORC as an organization that gets me into areas that would be otherwise unavailable, and to provide me with well thought out, well maintained legal trails, rather than having me poach someone's woods on my bicycle.

Although that is my focus, I realize that it takes a lot more in order to make it happen. After spending the evening with one of the IMBA founders, I realized what I kind of knew all along. We need the numbers and the organization in order for our sport to be given serious consideration. We need the leaders who can meet with land managers and city planners on behalf of thousands of bikers. We also need the large group of people to draw from when begging for volunteers. Finally, we need the membership revenue to fund new and existing projects.

So, if it is social events, group rides and cool looking jerseys that get the people out, then let's do it. (Besides, some of those events can be a lot of fun.)

As far as gaining vs maintaining trails, the worst thing we can do is to ignore an existing trail. This becomes a huge black eye that will be used as an example by other special interest groups when fighting for land usage. Once we take on a new trail, we commit ourselves to maintaining it forever. If we cannot make this committment, then we will not - and should not - have the opportunity to start anything new.

[Burke]

Can MORC be ALL of these things and still survive as an organization? I think we have all seen organizations grow only to lose themselves.

I think MORC can't survive without having all of these things.

It comes back to the age old analogy of which body part is the most important? There's no one answer, because they all play an instrumental role in making the whole thing work.

We are an organization of mountain bikers. We like to mountain bike.

When the organization formed in the late 90's, it was because we were losing opportunities to ride. We desperately needed to maintain what we had and gain other opportunities.

Now that we've got more opportunities than we can accommodate, the immediate needs of the organization are shifting. This is subtly different than who we are as an organization changing.

Sure, we still want to gain more riding opportunities, but if we try to gain opportunities and maintain what we have without growing the supporting aspects of the organization we're destined for failure.

I personally don't believe that trails alone will do it for MORC. We need to build MORC into a fully developed organization that can support the different aspects needed for a healthy and sustainable mountain bike environment in Minnesota.

To gain perspective on where we are and where our future might be, I encourage each of you to check out the other major mountain bike groups that have "ground level" operations (SORBA, NEMBA, MMBA etc) and see how their model of mountain bike advocacy works. In some cases, it's similar to us, in others it's different.

Scott

[Kosk]

Can MORC be ALL of these things and still survive as an organization?

MORC HAS to be all these things in order to survive. You can stomp your feet all you want about maintaining trails and gaining new ones, but without the people to actually go do it, it doesn't mean a thing.

I guess now I'm confused about what you are trying to get at with this poll?

It's not as straight forward as this or that. All these things are dependant upon each other. It's a giant tangled web where each piece is just as important.

[gopherhockey]

MORC HAS to be all these things in order to survive. You can stomp your feet all you want about maintaining trails and gaining new ones, but without the people to actually go do it, it doesn't mean a thing.

I guess now I'm confused about what you are trying to get at with this poll?

It's not as straight forward as this or that. All these things are dependant upon each other. It's a giant tangled web where each piece is just as important.

You are completely correct in that I AM kind of confusing the issue here.

What I can't seem to get accross is the idea that all of these things are important. I COMPLETELY agree with that even though some seem to think I do not. You also don't see that I'm playing devils advocate and posting questions to fuel discussion - not to necessarily state my own point of view. I'm reseving that for our planning meeting and as a result of this poll (among other things).

However... I think a club has to stand for something. Take the tagline again if you will. Do we really want to be:

"Gaining and maintaining trails, growing the membership, promoting the club, having social events, building chapters, riding jumps...."

Even IMBA selected 4 key words when they changed theirs. What are MORCs key words?

I am seeing benefit by this poll regardless of what my agenda was. I wanted to see what people want out of MORC. I think most have taken the "what we need to do in 2007-2008" approach. What I see is the top two items leading the poll by quite a large margin, which tells me that at the end of the day we still have our long term focus correct.

I'd love to be the next SORBA to be sure. However.. if in 5-10 years we have 10,000 members, 20 chapters and still no trails in the northern metro area or around the state I won't feel as if we have had much success as a club... unless we're in it to just be big, then woo hoo!

So far I think Bob's post has summed up my general feelings...

[crux]

Sure, we still want to gain more riding opportunities, but if we try to gain opportunities and maintain what we have without growing the supporting aspects of the organization we're destined for failure.


You make a good point here. But this also begs the question which comes first the chicken or the egg?

With out growing our foundation in gaining additional trail we are proned to over crowding and exposing ourselves to additional trail fairys that will build where ever they please with out land manager approval. Gaining trails will help, but this does not mean ignoring our existing trails. With an increased presence around the Twin Cities we will attract more bikers and potential members, trail workers. Mountian biking is still a new sport that is evolving and several people think that trails do not exist around here, which we know to be false. Key is to keep evolving the sport and keep ahead of damand for new trails. If we move to slow people will tire of riding the same trail over and over to fast and we won't be capable of keeping up with the trails that we do maintain. It is a fine balancing act, but one that we must walk to not only maintain MORC, but increase our oppertunities for future growth.

[Beau]

Getting more people on bikes is a means to an end. In the end what we really want is access to trails to ride our bike.

That's pretty selfish.

[Beau]

For me, it's Gaining and Maintaining Trails. Although I have a lot of new friends because of MORC, I did not join it as a social club.

I think it SHOULD be aimed at being a social club. Some people need that!

[gopherhockey]

That's pretty selfish.

How so?

I think it SHOULD be aimed at being a social club. Some people need that!

Gaining and Maintaining trails, and PARTYING!!!? :crazy2: :p ;)

[Kosk]

If we move to slow...

We, who is we? I know its you and me, and the couple other dozen people who post here and show up for trail work regularly, but can we really do all that? Can we really maintain Leb AND build up Murphy AND maintain Murphy AND design a trail in Fridley AND maintain it AND get Elm Creek going AND get a system built in northern MN?

Heck no we can't do all that by ourselves.

The dedicated few of us that there is will soon NOT BE ENOUGH. We need more bodies, more fresh legs and fresh attitudes. I'm suppose to be in three places at once this coming sunday...what's wrong with that picture..there needs to be more mes.... I think we are already at the tipping point where we are about to have more food (trails) than we can bite off and chew........If the ultimate goal is to have more trails, and keep the trails we have in good shape, then it seems obvious to me that MORC needs to work on its recruiting.

[Beau]

How so? ....

How is getting people on bicycles a means to an end? It sounds like rather than encouraging people to ride/start riding more focus should be put on pleasing the existing riders.

Yes, a big club full of people and no trails to ride could happen, but only if we let it happen.

More members can also be a huge revenue generator through grants. If there's a large interest and a lot of people involved, things will get done IMO.

[Aaroneous]

However.. if in 5-10 years we have 10,000 members, 20 chapters and still no trails in the northern metro area or around the state I won't feel as if we have had much success as a club...

Yeah, but... If we have 10,000 members, then we have 10,000 people who will lobby for, represent, build, and most importantly RIDE every mile of trail in the state.

People make trails, and more trails bring more people. Right now we have more trail projects than people, so we need people.

Once we get more people, we'll need more trails.

Etcetera.

[bigwheel]

MORC HAS to be all these things in order to survive. ...

I guess now I'm confused about what you are trying to get at with this poll?

I think the key word is "Focus". We currently only have a limited amount of human energy and funding to work with. Some examples:

Should the MORC board be used to promote racing? Or, do we use our races as a fund raiser for buying more equipment, even if it means charging more than necessary for the races?
Should we have you spend your time working with a land manager, or planning a party?
Should we have me leading a trail work group, or organizing a poker run?

It's a cop-out to say that we need to do everything. With unlimited resources, that would be true. However, each of us only have a certain amount of energy to devote to this. We need to understand what are our real goals, then plan accordingly. As we grow, we will have more leaders, who are able to increase the breadth of our scope. But for now, we need to understand our primary goals, and do what is necessary to achieve them.

I think it is a legitimate question to determine if people view MORC as a social club, a racing organization, a trail provider, ...

[Beau]

Again Pete, I agree with that whole post.




The dedicated few of us that there is will soon NOT BE ENOUGH.

[gopherhockey]

Once we get more people, we'll need more trails.


So you are saying the focus is to get more trails through an immediate push for new members?

I'm not sure if anyone sees where I'm going with this.... if even I see where I'm going with this ;)

I should add that I'm not in favor of gaining new trails if we don't have the people to build and maintain them. I don't agree that the MORC tagline should change, however, because we are spreading ourselves thin. That means we have already taken on one too many projects. (I'm also not saying it should stay as is... how's that for being on the fence!)

When I put "Gaining Trails" up there I didn't mean getting the permission to build new trails without the necessary labor and tools to back it up.

[Kosk]

Bob,

I'm really glad you are now part of the board. Thanks for joining.

Pete

[BikerKitty]

Ride: ride the trails we have, add new riders(new paying MORC members) to them
Sustain: make sure that the trails we're riding are kept up
Build: over the long-term, and as more people start riding, build more trails

Rinse and repeat for 20+ years or so.

That's kinda what I would want to see happen, but I just started riding a year ago, so I don't know much about all this stuff yet.

[BKocka]

I think the real question some of us should be asking and answering is why do we want trails?

Is it like Ted said, we joined MORC because we wanted trails to ride, not a social club?

Or are some of us in it for the things MORC provides, ie some sort of member benifit, getting to know fellow riders, etc.

Once those questions are anwered I think we will get an even clearer understanding of what MORC can become- once we understand why we became part of this orginization in the first place.

I'll be the first to go. I have only been on my mountain bike about 7 months. It didn't take me long after I started riding to join MORC because I knew the work that goes into building trails, and I didn't want them to go away- mostly because I wanted to still be riding them. Maybe it is selfish, joining MORC because I didn't want to see the trails die, but I also want them to around for years to come so other people can enjoy them and other users can love the sport I love.

So, for me MORC is about gaining and maintaining trails. Without the riders you really have no point for a trail- and without the trail you really have no point for a rider. They go hand in hand- people need trails and trails need people. We need to focus on those two things- the trails and the people who love those trails and want to see more of them.

[Beau]

I'm not sure if anyone sees where I'm going with this.... if even I see where I'm going with this ;)


More trails= More People

More People= More Trails

More trails= More Maintainance

More Maintainance= More People

More People= A need for P.R.

More P.R.= More Money

More Money= More People

More people= More Bikes

More bikes= More happy riders!

More happy riders= More MORC Members

More MORC members= A lot of nice trails in MN for people to learn on, ride on, learn to maintain and enjoy!

It's really hard to understand...:p Both sides are using the same ideas against each other.

[gopherhockey]

It's really hard to understand...:p Both sides are using the same ideas against each other.

Its a great discussion isn't it? Now you know what the board will be faced with as part of its challenge at an upcoming planning meeting.

I think its important to note that while people differ in opinions and maybe come about things from different angles that we aren't really against each other... right? :hit: :D ;)

Good healthy discussion... keep it going! I'm encouraged that we have had over 60 votes in such a short timeframe....

[Magic]

I think we all have to look at what we have now in front of us. We have some great trails and alot of the same people working these trails. More trails and no more new faces working them will not help us grow. We must stay true to what we started and not let it slip away because of growth. We are already fighting over people power for trail work and this will only double as we try to gain more trails. I feel we must try more to educate people on the importance of trail work. We will have burn out in the next couple of years if we keep the pace we are going at now.

Yes we all want more trails, but without the people to take care of them, we are slowly killing ourselves. I for one can only dedicate so much time to the trails. And I feel like I'm still not doing enough. But without new faces coming in and helping out, we are just spinning our wheels. So to some it all up, we need to focus on what we have now and the rest will come in time. We can't have it all, but it sure would be nice.

[Shorty]

Can we really maintain Leb AND build up Murphy AND maintain Murphy AND design a trail in Fridley AND maintain it AND get Elm Creek going AND get a system built in northern MN?

Heck no we can't do all that by ourselves.

As mountain biking projects become more prevalent, land managers will step up more and more.

Providing recreational opportunities is a huge part of every public land managers' mission. As these projects become more popular, and land managers see the successes of previous projects, they will play bigger and bigger roles (i.e. more maintenance, more construction, and funding responsibilities fulfilled by the land manager).

Something to consider... might even require a shift in MORC's approach.

[manual63]

I like what has been posted so far. It's great everyone is on track with ideas. We do need more people and it has always seemed that way. Someone keeps saying "trails won't build themselves" and I forget who it was. But this is very true. But we are learning we need more people involved to do other things too. We need to capitalize on peoples strengths and so on. For example, I am starting to work on more website stuff. We need people to do marketing and if we decide to sponsor and/or hold races and events, we need people to help do that. The more people, the less chance there is for burn out. No one person has to take on a whole task either, it can be a combined effort.

One thing I do want to make clear to everyone. You do not need to be on the MORC board to take on responsibilites you may be willing to do. Anyone can help organize an event or help with marketing. Anyone can help with the website if they have the skills and so on.

Now, to bring up another concern I have. I feel we need to focus more on advanced trails. I don't really want to call it freeride because I see so many mountain bikers enjoy advanced trail features. But freeride is certainly what is fueling the need for more advanced trails. I just saw a video with dirt jumps in it. Where are the dirt jumps?? We need to focus on this and get this stuff in some of our trails. We are getting there, but slowly. How are we going to speed this process up? Well Pete K and Buck certainly have the right idea. They got involved. I do feel I am beating a dead horse here, but I would love to see more freeriders or just riders who want more advanced trails to get involved. They don't have to join the board to do that, they can get involved just by giving input, helping at trailwork, and so on.

Anyway...enough of my long post. This thread is awesome! Keep the ideas coming.

[Aaroneous]

Now, to bring up another concern I have. I feel we need to focus more on advanced trails. I don't really want to call it freeride because I see so many mountain bikers enjoy advanced trail features.

Also remember that "advanced" doesn't always mean jumps and teeters and crazy stuff. Some of us still like climbing.
;)

[Magic]

Also remember that "advanced" doesn't always mean jumps and teeters and crazy stuff. Some of us still like climbing.
;)

Then ride Afton. Just ask Bob and John, they'll tell you we have climbing.;)

[tedsti]

I never said it was a bad means.

All I am saying is that people can go out and buy a bike and ride it today. There is nothing stopping them. There is something stopping them from going to their local underutilized park and putting in singletrack.

More people on bikes and more members should help us gain access and build trails. Let's just make sure that we aren't missing something else that is just as effective.

That's pretty selfish.

[manual63]

Some of us still like climbing.
;)

Something is wrong with you.....:p

[syntaxjunkie]

Not that this discussion needs another opinion, but we have found that land managers are only interested in developing a trail network if we can positively establish that there's an active riding population in their area to make use of the trails.

For example, we've been unable to make progress on developing trails in Reservoir Woods Park in Roseville because we have fewer than 5 members who live there. The City of Roseville needs to have a larger local user base established before they're willing to consider trails.

[TML]

Good conversation!

I voted: Maintain existing, Grow membership, and Statewide growth.

We must continue to take care of what we have created lest we lose the good reputation we have worked hard to create among land managers.

In order to do this we need to continue to grow the membership. It is also imperative that we take that a step further and grow the leadership amongst the members. Like Shad said, you do not have to be a board member to take a leadership role on something.

Doing what we can to encourage statewide growth and cohesiveness will help bring about new trails and projects that will encourage people to get involved in greater MN. That being said we don't want to pre-maturely create chapters here and there without a solid base either. There needs to be something there to build upon.

As many have said, PEOPLE are what make this all happen. Those willing to get involved, even at small levels, are the ones that keep the ball rolling.

[manual63]

The City of Roseville needs to have a larger local user base established before they're willing to consider trails.

I guess cities never saw the movie "Field of Dreams"......oh well.

[bigwheel]

That's pretty selfish.

Based on how hard Ted has worked this last year, I encourage more people to be "selfish".

I think it SHOULD be aimed at being a social club. Some people need that!

Perhaps, but that's not why I'm here. I already belong to two organizations that have evolved into mostly social clubs. I'm here to ride. But, I'm looking forward to you stepping in as a social events coordinator.

[syntaxjunkie]

I guess cities never saw the movie "Field of Dreams"......oh well.

If we built it, people would come. They just wouldn't come and buy real estate.

[Nickel]

I think MORC needs to target a larger group of riders. Not everyone is 100% "Wheeeeeeeee mountain biking!" 24/7. I think if the group wants to see growth, there will have to be more selective targeting: soccer moms with 2 kids, dads that want to take their kids out for a ride, parents that know they can drop their kids off with their friends at a park and come back for them in an hour or so because it's a safe community. Where are the 20-year olds? I have no idea.

A lot of people that can dedicate their time and money are awesome volunteers because they aren't in school and have the flexibility of a job and also that they aren't tied down by kids. I know for me, the weekends are so much better for everything but there is rarely trailwork on the weekends and also there are rarely group rides. I'm not saying to shift everything but there might be a large portion of people that would want to help but they can't because of scheduling.

I think Aaron mentioned a PR group and I don't see why this doesn't exist. PR not only for recruitment but also to be in charge of visibility during MORC-sponsored events; I think the board tends to have their hands full planning -- I'm not sure they want to get shouldered with that responsibility too.

So this is a ramble but I think it would help approaching some kid+parent groups like boy/girl scouts. They might be able to use the community service (eagle scouts tend to build things...why not a section of trail?) and also it is something for kids and parents to learn. Why not set up a table at the U during their club week? This is stretching it but I know Greeks have quotas for community service, and I"m sure you could convince them to help out for hours.....It's all in the creative, flexible thinking.

[wanderingrobots]

They got involved. I do feel I am beating a dead horse here, but I would love to see more freeriders or just riders who want more advanced trails to get involved.

Not to speak as a representative for freeride as a whole but for me at least the reason I am not more involved is that its hard to know where to start. I dont really want to go to a meeting where the building of new cross country trails are going to be discussed for 2 hours or whatever. Not because thats a bad thing, but rather because It just doesnt interest me that much. Maybe if there was like freeride specific meetings and what not then we would be much more involved. That said, keep up the good work to everyone who is already involved, and I hope I can get more involved soon! -jeff

[SprocketHead]

Nothing wrong with gaining trails but, I feel like we have some momentum in that area at the moment.

We need more trails in the Northern Metro for sure, but, We need to attract more people overall.

We can gain people by turning them on to existing trails and If they can't help with trail work, at least they could be a member and maybe donate a little now and then.

How many Mountain Bikes are sold in the twin cities every year???
How many of those people use our trails and are NOT members???
... I'll bet it's a huge number!

[Heuy]

A note about socializing,

I think whenever you get a group of people together with a common interest, especially when that interest is, lets face it, less mainstream than last nights Vikings game, it turns into a somewhat social event.

Sometimes when an organization tries to be specifically a social organization it gets awkward. I have good friends from MORC and college cycling club. It just happens naturally when people get together with a common interest. I don't know if we really want to spend resources trying to encourage socializing that invariably happens at the parking lot at Leb. naturally anyhow.

Also, to contradict myself. If someone has a social event in mind, what's the harm of grabbing the bull by the horns and doing it. It could go along with some of the comments I agree with about decentralizing and using peoples specific skills.

Another note/confession. I haven't done any trail work this year, I also can't do weeknights. Would MORC have a use for us we could get a couple of us with similar schedules together?

[manual63]

Not to speak as a representative for freeride as a whole but for me at least the reason I am not more involved is that its hard to know where to start. I dont really want to go to a meeting where the building of new cross country trails are going to be discussed for 2 hours or whatever. Not because thats a bad thing, but rather because It just doesnt interest me that much. Maybe if there was like freeride specific meetings and what not then we would be much more involved. That said, keep up the good work to everyone who is already involved, and I hope I can get more involved soon! -jeff

Very good point indeed. But there is some stuff coming up and we plan to post and ask for help. When that happens, I do hope a ton of freeriders come out of the woodwork.

Also, I think you have a good point about the meetings. Maybe a freeride specific meeting is in order. Well, it's posted here and I will make sure to bring it up at the next MORC board meeting. Thanks for your input.

[gopherhockey]

Nothing wrong with gaining trails but, I feel like we have some momentum in that area at the moment.



This poll is bringing a lot of good ideas on what to focus on short term but I am not seeing much long term commentary. I'm curious if anyone has some ideas in that regard.

In other words, because we have some momentum now and perhaps a shortage of volunteers for what we have, we might want to shift toward membership growth to support the trail efforts going on now and in the future.

All clubs need members. I don't think clubs are *about* pure membership growth, however. We get members to grow the club to accomplish certan things.

Things like PR and merchandising seem to be items to grow the membership that supports the goals of an organization.

Growing the organization broadens the ability to accomplish those goals.

MORC has grown to the point where it needs to put effort into many of these things in some way shape or form as long as there are people who can pull all of these things off. We ask ourselves what the return is on our investment and direct our attention and efforts accordingly.

What are the true goals though. Not the needs of today, but the long term and underlying goal behind why we are together right now.. why we put our time and our money into this organization. What is it that we expect from MORC, not necessarily what we need to do to get there. If you could put it all into a few words or phrases, what would they be.

IMBA did it... Speak, Build, Respect, Ride. A new tagline, but I believe true to their original organizational vision.

What about MORC?

[jitterjepp]

We've got the system down as far as how to build and sustain trailsI agree 100%. I've done a massive amout of research over the over the last 18 months. We need to get more people interested and not just get them interested but get return visitors that are going to bring more people. I think we specifically need to interest more younger people and women and I think we need to find a way to market to and appeal the these groups. For many people its just getting the word out and letting them know it is available in this area. I didn't know there were some really great places to go ice climbing in Minnesota until about nine years ago. I did it one weekend and nearly every weekend there after for about three seasons straight and I've introduced about two dozen people to is since then and about half are hooked for life. (btw if anyone wants to go this winter let me know) Had I know about it earlier I probably would have gotten hooked earlier and introduced even more people to it.

Women are gaining on men for outdoor activities but they are starting to spend more time on ""fitness activities" (going to health clubs, doing pilaties, yoga...) rather than things like biking.
Maybe they don't know about the mountain biking around here and we need to let them know and let them know women are doing it. So ladies bring your single ..I mean your girlfriends.
Youth rides are also a really good idea. I think its a really good idea.

Personally what I want is a 60 - 100 mile mountain bike trail that is totally single track with campsites on lake shores where I can go lake trout fishing along the way and zero road crossings. What I think needs to happen first is we need to continue growing a wider base of riders. I remember seeing BMX get huge when I was a kid and then all of the sudden it drifted off.
I don't want to see that happen with mountain biking because when BMX went away so did most of the trails.

[Buck]

well if PR is what people want I have suggested multiple times to swap banners with intermtb, interbmx, and mnbmx. Dustin the guy that runs those sites is cool with it, I've talked to him about it a couple times now but every time I bring it up here I get the answer no, at one point someone even said we don't do banners, but I have noticed banners in the forums....

Its an easy way to cross promote with another segment of riders.


L8Rz
Buck

[Nickel]

I wouldn't mind some sort of mini-MORC flyer I could carry around with me on the trails. I never have a pen with me when I am riding so I'm sure people forget if I tell them the web address.

[gopherhockey]

One last thought before I hit it for the night...

Many have commented that we have too many opportunities or that we maybe don't need to be seeking new ones. Also that we have it all figured out when when it comes to building trails. To me thats a dangerous and rather arrogant way of thinking.

I think we should be careful not to get too content thinking trails are going to come to us. We shouldn't simply stop our efforts and believe that land managers will now bring the trails too us. There is a lot of work to be done, and people like Tim Wegner have worked really hard to get us to where we are today... We are where we are because of efforts that were happening years and years ago. We need to be on our game now for what we want in the future.

Yes, we need to have the people on the ground ready to work whatever comes up. We may even need to pass on certain opportunities if we just can't handle them. We absolutely need to learn new ways to grow the organization if we are to take on new trails.

However..I say we don't stop our momentum. Shift some short term focus, perhaps.. but now is not the time to relax when it comes to new trails and we definitely have some work to do on our existing trails.

[manual63]

I don't want to see that happen with mountain biking because when BMX went away so did most of the trails.

BMX never totally died. It just got super small for awhile in the late 80's and early 90's. Then it came back big. BMX racing in going to be in the 2008 Olympics. Freestyle BMX is one of the biggest events at the X-Games. So I don't think it's going anywhere for awhile. Things go in waves. Mountian biking is always going to be here, it's just a matter of how big it is. It seems to be growing fairly quickly around here. It's a good recreational activity and I think we just need to get more people involved to help out. I don't think we have a risk of losing anything. We have a risk of not having enough people to take on all the growth and help build trail.

[jitterjepp]

BMX never totally died. I knew you would come back with something. On a side note arent most tracks and comps indoors now> I would hate to be only mountain biking indoors. Being outside is 90% of it for me. I would hate to be mountain biking inside all the time. I give it up and go do something else with that time and money.

[Sevadari]

*****CAUTION, LONG POST ALERT!!!*****

At just under 800 members, it's safe to say we haven't tapped out the entire mountain biking population of the metro area, much less the state at large.

Hey, wait just a minute...I'm pretty sure I laid claim to the 800th MORC member designation (check out my new signature line...wear it with pride)!!!

I think it's important to try to bring people into mountain biking. But I think our initial focus should be on converting people who are already mountain bikers into members...it's safe to say we haven't tapped out the entire mountain biking population of the metro area, much less the state at large.

On the specifics of the discussion, I couldn't agree more with this and many of the other related comments from previous posts. Trails will and should always be the focus, but ultimately we're going to need more and a wider and a more diversified base of people to grow and sustain a larger network of trails througout the metro and the state.

However, the overall issue is just how do you structure and think of the related, supportive, and contributive goals of the organization? I think we're getting a bit confused because we're having a few different, but related, conversations at the same time. Goals, focus, strategies, objectives, outcomes, etc., are NOT all the same thing though we're talking about them pretty loosely and as though they are. They are related for sure, but they are not one in the same. It's not even sufficient to simply clarify by adding the "short" versus "long-term" descriptors to each of those terms.

While I think this kind of discussion is certainly useful to get the general pulse of MORC members and forum readers, its true usefulness tends to max out pretty quickly since the energy and ideas aren't focused or facilitated in any organized or structured way. You end up going in circles since you don't have any real defined starting point with clear parameters for the discussion and a clearly understood set of terms from which participants can engage the real issues.

What I'm saying isn't rocket science or anything, it's just classic organizing, organizational development and change, and effective planning strategy. There are tried and true methods to working through this kind of organizational identity crisis/soul searching...and in most cases it requires someone not part of the "inner circle" working with those inside the inner circle first (and then working out to successively further groups of "stakeholders") to clarify, create, and/or expand the organization's mission, vision, purpose, etc. Ultimately this leads up to a unified strategy for short, medium and long run efforts.

So far, what I've understood as constituting this recent process seems best described as a movement for change/soul searching by members of the inner circle largely having a discussion with each other and being supplemented with a well-intentioned and appreciated, but very informal, "tapping" of the other members thoughts. It's a good start, but if you want fresh ideas and perspectives, or even if you simply want to really hone in on the true deep roots of the organizations identity, you really should think of having someone NOT part of the immediate inner circle act as a facilitator of the process. It's also a very messy and involved process, not something that can be neatly taken on in one 2 or 3-hour session.

Back on specifics though, I'm quite surprised that MORC has such fairly low visibility (or maybe its name recognition, or buy-in) within the more hardcore MTBing community as a whole and definitely among the casual /first timer MTBing population in Minnesota. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A DISS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. I'VE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED WITH MORC IN THE SHORT TIME I'VE BEEN A MEMBER AND AM GLAD FOR THE VERY HARD WORK OF EARLIER MEMBERS. After all, an organization can, and need, only do so much at any given time. Perhaps early on in MORC's life it was best served by a small, cohesive, and nimble membership and leadership. However, as with life in general, living organisms HAVE to grow, change, and adapt to their changing environment, otherwise they die!

So, for a variety of reasons, I would say it's important for MORC to put more energy and resources in the short and long run on growing the constituency and support base for MTBing in Minnesota. What does this mean? Not sure if it's what others would call focus, goals, or whatever, but I think of it as the following (not in any order of priority):

1. Focus on getting those already turned on to MTBing to convert to MORC.

2. Do a real big push on the front end of the MTBing lifecycle to get youth, their parents, new adult riders, road cyclists, i.e., any new riders, aware of what MORC does. Really focus on smart visibility in venues that we traditionally have not spent time in with banners and booths and whatever it takes to get attention. I.e., don't just preach to the converted, go out to events and places where you'll find "potential" MORCers.

3. Partnering in some form or fashion with a variety of community groups will provide many benefits above and beyond increased membership.

4. Place a big emphasis on riders clinics, trail education, and more beginner and intermediate group rides. Actively promote them through a variety of channels to get more of the un-converted to attend. Perhaps have a standing time and day of the month for riders clinics at a few of the more popular trails so when MORC members come across potential takers they can easily say to them, for example, "riders clinics are held on the first Saturday of every month at 9am at Leb".

5. Have a greater mix of MORC riding and trail work options on Saturdays and Sundays. While I don't do Sundays myself, chances are much greater that I can make it to trail work (and even bring others too!) on Saturdays than weekday nights. This is especially the case since I live pretty far from Leb and many of the other metro trails.

There's more that can be said, however, I've ranted long enough and I'm about to turn into a pumpkin...which ain't good this time of year!

Adios!

[jitterjepp]

I think what was said above really is important. Yes new trails are important but lets face it. The mountain bikers who are here are here for life. We need new riders and a wider base or riders. Mountain biking peaked out in 2000 and from the studies I've looked at id has been on the decline. An important thing to note about what is considered in mountain biking in some of these studies is that it doesn't always involve single track. It could be a person riding a mountain bike around Lake Harriet on the bike path. We need more riders. There are people here who have worked tirelessly on trails and trail access but sooner or later other things are going to come up in people lives and they wont have the time for doing all that. People are also going to get burnt out. There needs to be a new wave to help cary the load at some point and help build all those new trails we all want. Lets face it we cant be at 20 different trails doing all the work all the time especially if one or two of these trails are really long.

[Shorty]

I think it comes down to 2 things... working for more and better trails, and growing MORC.

IMO, focus on those 2 things. :crazy:

Is there a push for a new tagline?

"More Trails, More Riders"

"Better Trails, Better Riders"

"Build, Maintain, Ride" (I think this has already been said)

[gopherhockey]

So far, what I've understood as constituting this recent process seems best described as a movement for change/soul searching by members of the inner circle largely having a discussion with each other and being supplemented with a well-intentioned and appreciated, but very informal, "tapping" of the other members thoughts.

I really appreciated your thoughts and post. Long, but well thought out and well put.

You are right, there are a number of different topics being thrown around here. People looking for goals arguing with people discussing strategies.. it can appear we are very much out of sync, but I sense that in some way we are all saying much of the same thing. It is my hope that the board can get some of this down at future planning meetings and keep the organization on course - tweaking things as needed, but not making major organization altering changes if it isn't necessary.

[Burke]

Is there a push for a new tagline?

During the past year, a new tagline was proposed to the board, because of a perception that Gaining and Maintaining Trails didn't encompass everything we do and everything we are.

The proposed tagline was "Build to last, ride with respect".

It was not received favorably by a portion of the board. Since then there has been a certain amount of searching going on trying to figure out whether the current tag line fits, and if we were to change it, does that mean that we're fundamentally changing the focus of the organization.

Scott

[gopherhockey]

More food for thought.

There have been many who are arguing that we need to get more people into mountain biking. That one is even doing well in the poll.

However, this is one item that I might argue would spread MORC way too thin in focus. It doesn't mean there aren't things that can be done - but I think there are other bike organizations that have their focus in this area and perhaps if we are to venture in that direction we leverage others. (using our affiliate program is one way to do this)

Some of these same people are recognizing that we are running thin for volunteers in some areas and are experiencing some amount of burnout. A major shift into what I see as a whole other arena in the biking world might not be a good move. I know I certainly didn't join MORC to become someone who sells people on bikes, as important as I agree that topic is.

Support that cause, yes... but not make it our cause. I do agree that taking existing mountain bikers and making them MORC members is very important and a little closer to home for the organization.

[Sevadari]

I really appreciated your thoughts and post. Long, but well thought out and well put.


I've been attempting for awhile now to see if I could win the "longest MORC post ever" award...I'd love to add that fine distinction to my signature line!

More seriously though, for people like myself who don't always get to the MORC boards until seriously late in the evening, or those that just don't read instructions first...I suspect a number of us (myself very much included in this category) didn't realize we could vote for more than one category until it was too late. As a result, I suspect the results are a bit skewed since gaining and maintaining trails were at the top of the list and are the most important if you had to choose one option only. You might get a slightly, although probably not dramatically, different set of responses.

I would have definitely added another couple options dealing more with riders clinics, more advanced trail features, etc., if I had read the instructions for the poll first. Doh!:crazy:

[soupboy]

Stay focused. This is volunteer organization. Trying to be too many things to too many people will result in nothing but waste, misdirection and ultimately failure.

Focusing on the first three creates a self-sustaining closed loop. The balance of the list seems to be comprised of variations on a couple similar themes - being more social and acting more like a business. To me, those are simply "nice to haves" versus "must haves" and in some cases the desire for the more warm fuzzies can put you out onto a slippery slope and significantly detract from the core needs.

Example - an "educated rider", by just existing, is more likely to get more involved in the sport and advocacy efforts. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[manual63]

On a side note arent most tracks and comps indoors now

No, only one track was indoors and I think it closed down last year. All the tracks are outside. The only problem we have here locally is that all the BMX tracks are not in or near the metro area anymore. That would be a bummer if that happened to mountain biking. Imagine if you had to drive an hour or so to go ride anywhere......blah...that would suck. I have to say, some places are so worth the drive, like Levis, Rock Lake, and the Black Hills. Milaca has the Bog Monster open again....so yeah worth the drive. But having Leb, Theo, the River, Terrace, and soon Murphy again.....or a better Murphy......we are lucky. There are others, Battle Creek, Salem...and so on. We have a ton of trails that are fairly close. It looks like the North metro will be getting some too.

BMX is dead in the TC Metro, but I think politics played a big part in that. I am not going to mention names or shops, but they pretty much ruined BMX in the local area because of mismanagement, grudges, and lack of leadership. Nationwide, BMX is super strong though. I am mainly speaking of racing, not freestyle. We don't want this to happen with mountain biking, but I don't think we are worried about that at this point. We have a strong organization and a lot of momentum. What we need are just interested people that want to help. Really, the focus of MORC I think is spot on. I also think as opportunities become available, people like yourselves will step up and help out. It seems to have always worked that way and I think that will continue. We all love the sport, so I think we will all do our part to keep it going.

[gopherhockey]

You might get a slightly, although probably not dramatically, different set of responses.


I suspect it won't make a huge difference as you mention, but I can also edit the poll if anyone wanted a vote change and felt it important enough to fix.

[Sevadari]

I suspect it won't make a huge difference as you mention, but I can also edit the poll if anyone wanted a vote change and felt it important enough to fix.

No biggie, just pointing it out.

However, in future polls you might think of mentioning the multiple choice option (or any other poll-specific instructions) on top of the window instead of at the bottom, perhaps off to the right of the question.

That way those of us reading through bleary eyes wouldn't have to take so much responsibility for our own civic participation!!!:p:D

[wanderingrobots]

BMX is dead in the TC Metro

not to derail but

racing maybe but definently not park and street riding. I wasnt around for the heyday of bmx, but I would have to say that BMX is doing just fine right now. The twin cities area has turned out several incredibly good riders, and it only takes a trip to one of the bike only hours at the skatepark to look at how highly skilled most riders are now in this area

As for racing, yeah that is dead in the water. I cant think of the name but there was a place to race that was indoors somewhere around here. I think it closed. other than that... theres nothing to race on here.

okay back to mountain biking. -jeff

[BKocka]

not to derail but

racing maybe but definently not park and street riding. I wasnt around for the heyday of bmx, but I would have to say that BMX is doing just fine right now. The twin cities area has turned out several incredibly good riders, and it only takes a trip to one of the bike only hours at the skatepark to look at how highly skilled most riders are now in this area

As for racing, yeah that is dead in the water. I cant think of the name but there was a place to race that was indoors somewhere around here. I think it closed. other than that... theres nothing to race on here.

okay back to mountain biking. -jeff

hahaha thanks jeff. I wanted to post exactly what you said but didnt want to hijack the thread.

[steef]

As for racing, yeah that is dead in the water. I cant think of the name but there was a place to race that was indoors somewhere around here. I think it closed. other than that... theres nothing to race on here.

It's still open.

http://www.rehbeinsbmx.com

[FarmerBEN]

My main complaint about morc is that they seem more interested in advocating their group than advocating the sport in general. I generally think it is significantly more important to get a non-rider riding than it is to get a rider into the organization. We are competing against sports that kids are pushed into as early as 2nd or 3rd grade and saying that they will find their way to biking is missing a lot of potential riders. Why not put fliers up at local ski chalets, they get thousands ok school kids each year and maybe seeing something while skiing might plant a seed of an idea in a head or two. Maybe I shouldn't say anything being a non-member but I'm not a member because I feel that until morc grows outstate my dues would just be going to support metro trails.

[Buck]

My main complaint about morc is that they seem more interested in advocating their group than advocating the sport in general. I generally think it is significantly more important to get a non-rider riding than it is to get a rider into the organization. We are competing against sports that kids are pushed into as early as 2nd or 3rd grade and saying that they will find their way to biking is missing a lot of potential riders. Why not put fliers up at local ski chalets, they get thousands ok school kids each year and maybe seeing something while skiing might plant a seed of an idea in a head or two. Maybe I shouldn't say anything being a non-member but I'm not a member because I feel that until morc grows outstate my dues would just be going to support metro trails.

At the meetings I went to in Whistler, the management there mentioned that cross promoting with skiing and snowboarding especially has been huge b/c a large percent of them are already crossover users they just don't know that it is available on mtn...so if we ever get a ski resort with trails that's a great idea!

L8Rz
Buck

[Kosk]

I feel that until morc grows outstate my dues would just be going to support metro trails.

MORC can't grow outstate until you step up and make it grow outstate.
I used to think the way you did Ben, and then the light went off for me. MORC wasn't gonna build me any jump trails or stunts. I am gong to have to build them myself. But by myself, I can't roll up to a Land Manager and hold much of their attention. With MORC's name though, and my effort, well, then I might get some results. MORC is nothing but a name. MORC can't really come to you or anybody else and fix anything, you have to BECOME MORC and fix/build/do it yourself.

[manual63]

not to derail but racing maybe but definently not park and street riding.


Did you read my whole post??

okay back to mountain biking.

[manual63]

It's still open.

http://www.rehbeinsbmx.com

Amazing. Every year they keep saying they are closing the doors.....:jumpy:

[Paul Swenson]

I think it's important to try to bring people into mountain biking. But I think our initial focus should be on converting people who are already mountain bikers into members. These folks are easier to reach, and already understand the value of a well-designed, well-maintained trail system. At just under 800 members, it's safe to say we haven't tapped out the entire mountain biking population of the metro area, much less the state at large.

The logical conclusion to this would be to target anyone who buys a mountain bike in this great state. Would it be possible or beneficial to put together some type of packet with trail information and other tidbits for shops to hand out when someone purchases a mountain bike?

[BKocka]

In response to what Paul metioned....

As one who has worked at many a bike shop it would be absoloutly beneficial to provide someone who buys a mountain bike with say a morc news letter... Bike shops provide them but don't do a good job of getting them out to the general public. This thought came to me last night....

Why not get those who purchase a mountain bike a discounted MORC membership as part of their purchase, eh!?

[Gus]

Per a very reliable source from the bmx area of minnesota (Helmut Nendza) from Nendzas bike and board in rogers, rehbeins was closing as of this fall. There simply isnt enough money in it anymore. And if it is open it is very likely that it is not owned or operated by the rehbeins anymore. They have been in this buisness a long time and a couple of the founding rehbein family have since passed on. If anyone her is interested in bmx or where to ride/ race etc Nendzas in rogers is the best place to go for your local bmx info. Helmut was a 7 year aba chamion in the early 2000s i believe. check it out and or google his son Josh Nendzas who is in the circuit but abroad in france. He was also in canada for the summer as part of the team that BUILT nad designed the red bull challenge there. Check it out its worth it
www.nendzasbikeandboard.com (http://www.nendzasbikeandboard.com) i believe

[bigwheel]

I'm not a member because I feel that until morc grows outstate my dues would just be going to support metro trails.

So, I take that as a vote for "Gaining Trails".

(Caution: Baiting in progress) It's interesting how the proliferation of good trails has gotten so many new members into MORC. There are a lot of non-MORC bike clubs around, with some great social events. How many new and maintained trails have they gotten us? How many people joined MORC because of a social event and are now doing trail work?

[Burke]

So, I take that as a vote for "Gaining Trails".

(Caution: Baiting in progress) It's interesting how the proliferation of good trails has gotten so many new members into MORC. There are a lot of non-MORC bike clubs around, with some great social events. How many new and maintained trails have they gotten us? How many people joined MORC because of a social event and are now doing trail work?
Not downplaying the importance of trail work, but beyond that, we need more members for the strength of voice through numbers. It also helps our financial base.

Group rides and other social activities, while not core, generate interest and awareness. Depending on the person, it's easier to soft sell for a group ride, compared to trail work.

[gopherhockey]

My main complaint about morc is that they seem more interested in advocating their group than advocating the sport in general.

(repeat alert) Once again I think this is because MORC isn't a bike advcacy group at its core, and I doubt it ever will be. Not to say we don't do *some* of that.. but once again, MORC was founded to build new trails, protect existing trails, and keep them maintained so that we have places to ride. If someone within MORC comes along and wants to put some effort into that area they are definitely welcome to do so of course.

Building the membership base is key to organizational growth and of course to making new trails a success. I don't know that its necessarily members first, though... especially when you read posts like yours where people won't join up until there is something in it for them. The end result is still trails and I'll keep saying that over and over until someone can prove me wrong. A club doesn't build its membership base and funds to just have more members and more money. (ok, most don't - I suppose there are some that find pleasure in that..)

As for going out of the metro, its not my job to build those trails. Someone out there has to step up. I will help what I can with education and might even come out to help design and build to get a crew going. I will even vote to allocate funds to areas that show they want to join in the same success we have had in the metro. MORC will struggle to be more than a metro organization as long as people have attitudes such as yours, unfortunately.

The good thing is we are making progress. There *are* people out there becoming chapters and putting faith in MORC. They will reap the rewards in the coming years. Those sitting back will not.

Much of our 2007 budget will no doubt be going into the chapter program in one way or another, as well as working with out of the metro groups. Your non-membership means less budget for those efforts. Come to a meeting if you doubt how serious we are on this.

[gopherhockey]

BTW: I apologize to everyone and your employers for all the wasted work time this poll has cost many of us. ;)

[bakkeb]

I think gaining and maintaining are the most important things that MORC should be a part of. That is after all what it is all about. Having maintained trails to ride should be of the most importance. I think educating riders should be next in line. When I started riding mtbikes, I was unaware of how to build a trail properly, that riding in muddy conditions ruin the trail, the politics of obtaining trails, etc. MORC did that for me. Whenever I encounter a new rider or someone new to mtbiking I always direct them to the MORC site. I once was talking to a rider at Leb. and he thought that because he pays his taxes he was helping pay for the trail he was riding. He was not a new mtnbiker either and found no reason to give anything to MORC. That is why MORC should do all they can to educate future and existing riders. :etard:

[hockeynut]

Just so Ben doesn't get completely piled on, he has stepped up and does help out with work on Memorial. So don't think he just "freeloads".

We're in the process of getting something restarted in the Red Wing area, and initially, because of the exact reasons that Mr. Lundell has stated (that MORC isn't an advocacy organization first and foremost), I don't want our group to join MORC. There will be two main focuses of the group. 1) Be advocates for the local trails and the sport in general and get more of the local folks and kids and women and anyone else onto bikes. 2) Hopefully a couple of those people want to help maintain the trails, that would help with the second focus of the group. Note... I'll mention MORC (since I do like ride on the metro trails from time to time and I appreciate the hard work everyone up there has done) once people are actually riding, so if that grows numbers, great.

If we balloon our numbers into the high teens... or 20s... and there were more than a handful of dedicated volunteers willing to step up, then we might want to try and branch out to new parks/areas in the SE for some trails. This is when in my mind our changing goals would dovetail more with MORCs. Then becoming a chapter would make sense.

Just my two cents. Oh.. off topic... is there a reminder when my MORC membership is up? I have a feeling I'm in need of re-upping.

Isaac

[gopherhockey]

We're in the process of getting something restarted in the Red Wing area, and initially, because of the exact reasons that Mr. Lundell has stated (that MORC isn't an advocacy organization first and foremost),

I didn't really say that. We are an advocacy group for sure... I just said our primary mission hasn't been to introduce new people into biking. That doesn't mean we don't do that, or have advocacy efforts going on in many other ways - trails being a primary one. It doesn't mean we might not move in that direction as well... or... that certain chapters focus on the aspects of biking they feel are important. Organizations like Two Wheel View or Trips For Kids that focus on connecting young people to our sport have been long time affiliates of MORC, which means we support each other for the greater good.

I'm afraid people are misinterpreting what I have been trying to say and maybe I should have not started this thread or spoken up so much. I don't want people to get the idea that MORC doesn't do the things listed above just because I have been trying to nail down the 2-3 primary goals. Nobody can be all of these things even if we wanted to be.

I suggest discussing the chapter program in more detail with someone like Scott Thayer before you write us off completely. I know the state isn't going to come together overnight, but people like Scott have a great vision for how to pull it off. Minnesota should come together, not split apart.. especially if it is just over misunderstandings.

I'm glad you are at least staying a member of MORC. That is cool. One step at a time, right? ;)

[Buck]

I didn't really say that. We are an advocacy group for sure... I just said our primary mission isn't to introduce new people into biking. That doesn't mean we don't do that, or have advocacy efforts going on in many other ways - trails being a primary one.

I'm sad that you folks don't want to become a part of the chapter program if that is what you are saying. Its hard to understand why we can't pull the state together and help each other regardless of the individual mission of each chapter.

I'm glad you are at least staying a member of MORC. That is cool. One step at a time, right? ;)

I can see why they don't want to be part of morc, Chris G, Isaac, and crew have done a ton of work down there with no help from MORC and built one heck of a relationship along with a killer trail system...what do we have to offer them to join MORC? There is really no incentive for someone that is as established as they are. That is my view anyway.

L8Rz
Buck

[gopherhockey]

I can see why they don't want to be part of morc, Chris G, Isaac, and crew have done a ton of work down there with no help from MORC and built one heck of a relationship along with a killer trail system...what do we have to offer them to join MORC? There is really no incentive for someone that is as established as they are. That is my view anyway.


I don't get the "whats in it for me" approach... but I think its not new to states who are growing up and coming together.

I have never doubted the efforts of guys like Chris... I love what they are doing down there and would love nothing more than to support them as a chapter (or even not). Buck, if I remember correctly even you have been down there to help... doesn't that imply they are getting help from MORC? There are tons of other things that may have started here in the metro but are already going to benefit our outstate trails... those who attended the summit will have an understanding of that.

Just the other day I got a PM from someone doing work on another chapters trail asking for some trail layout help. We're on it! Funny thing is if this same person had asked before becoming a chapter I have no doubt we'd give them the same support. They have to do the groundwork though, and I believe they understand that. Its a cooperative effort that is going to do nothing but enhance riding in the entire state.

I hate to see this poll turn into an argument between trail groups. Thats not necessary...

[hockeynut]

I'm sad that you folks don't want to become a part of the chapter program if that is what you are saying. Its hard to understand why we can't pull the state together and help each other regardless of the individual mission of each chapter.


I'm not completely against becoming a chapter of MORC, just right away I personally don't see both A) what a half-dozen people in the Red Wing would truly be able to offer MORC and 2) what MORC would be able to offer us... I won't derail the thread anymore. Just wanted to have Ben's back.

I'll pretty much always be a member of MORC as I don't mind driving 60 minutes to ride a different trail every now and then. Plus I like this forum. So I'll be sending in my check pretty soon here... but I also don't think that MORC is the solution to every problem as it were. My opinion.

Isaac

P.S. I actually voted for Maintaining current trails, developing new trails, and getting youth involved if that means anything....

[Buck]

I don't get the "whats in it for me" approach... but I think its not new to states who are growing up and coming together.

I have never doubted the efforts of guys like Chris... I love what they are doing down there and would love nothing more than to support them as a chapter. Buck, if I remember correctly even you have been down there to help... doesn't that imply they are getting help from MORC?

Just the other day I got a PM from someone doing work on another chapters trail asking for some trail layout help. We're on it! Funny thing is if this same person had asked before becoming a chapter I have no doubt we'd give them the same support. They have to do the work though, and I believe they understand that. Its a cooperative effort that is going to do nothing but enhance riding in the entire state.

I hate to see this poll turn into an argument between trail groups. Thats not necessary, and it doesn't need to have fuel thrown on it, especially by someone who should understand the chapter system and what it will give people.

Whoa, I'm not trying to turn this into an argument. I've stayed out of this thread for the most part b/c I knew people would be offended by opinions(not MORCs) and get all defensive.

I'm doing much like you have devil's advocate.

I'm out
L8Rz
Buck

[gopherhockey]

I'm not completely against becoming a chapter of MORC, just right away I personally don't see both A) what a half-dozen people in the Red Wing would truly be able to offer MORC and 2) what MORC would be able to offer us... I won't derail the thread anymore. Just wanted to have Ben's back.

Thanks for posting that.. now I can sleep a bit easier.

I think you bring up the exact questions that will be part of our work effort in the coming years. If we work on this together I think the answers will become clear. :D

BTW: Ben, didn't mean to rag on you THAT much... ;) Anyone who has spent time working on a trail.. MORC member or not... deserves props.



I'm doing much like you have devil's advocate.




Yea, I've been doing a bit of that. You just took it to a whole new level is all... ;)

[Buck]

Yea, I've been doing a bit of that. You just took it to a whole new level is all... ;)

That's b/c I'm "young, dumb..." you know the rest. :laugh: I think we need to present the toughest questions we have heard about MORC and instead of ignoring them attack them head on. That in turn I think will help guide us in deciding where this organization needs to go beyond "gaining and maintaing" which should always be part of what we are.

Anyway keep the discussion going some good points are being made!


L8Rz
Buck

[toasthaiku]

In order to do this we need to continue to grow the membership. It is also imperative that we take that a step further and grow the leadership amongst the members. Like Shad said, you do not have to be a board member to take a leadership role on something.


We need numbers, and we need them fast. The effect of focusing on growing our membership through whatever means is ultimately that we will have more people to spread the work load on; maintainance, LM relations, new trails, recruiting, etc. I think our current model is going to quickly get drowned in responsibility: Not many other organizations have board members who are also web masters who are also trail stewards who are also dirt bosses who are also event coordinators, who are also......you get the idea.

These are important points. Growing membership's key.

I've been on boards where board members did most of the work. Not much gets done, everyone's fried, and board members leave the moment their term's up.

Board members shouldn't be the web masters and event coordinators. Board members should work with a web committee and event committee. More members can participate in activities which interest them. Involved members bring new ideas, better ideas and the energy to do them. Board members are free to focus on strategy. Everyone's happy and has more time to ride. I think world peace and cancer cures happen next.

Growing members adds the clout, energy and money needed to do anything else.

Guess I should join MORC before I spout off anymore about membership. My COGGS dues are paid so I'm not a TOTAL outsider here.;)

[rfd425]

I voted for gaining trails, maintaining existing trails, and educating riders. Those three are the reasons why I joined MORC. Here's what led to me becoming a member:

I bought my first mountain bike five months ago. I mentioned that to a co-worker who bikes, and asked if he knew of any good local trails to bike on. He printed me a map of the Theo trails from the MOCA website, and I later visited that site myself, which led me to the MORC site. After riding Theo a few times and realizing how much I had to learn about this sport, I started lurking on the forums, and found this to be a great resource. I also learned a little about MORC's purpose. Between the forums here, and seeing the work that goes into maintaining the Theo trail, I decided that I wanted to be a contributor to this organization, at least financially for now, so I joined.

I do think gaining new members has some value, because out of new members come future leaders. Of course, the future leaders are a few among the many, but for every ten or twenty new members, maybe one will make a big positive difference to organization.

I am in a brand-specific car club, and the club has an arrangement with local dealers to place membership info/applications in the glovebox of every new car of that brand that is sold. It's a win-win situation, because the club helps build brand loyalty and enthusiasm that keeps people coming back to those dealerships to buy the same brand of car (maybe an upgraded model). The same philosophy ought to work for MORC and local bike dealers. If a MORC flier/application is given out with every new mountain bike, MORC will gain a lot of new members who otherwise never would have heard of MORC. The benefit to the bike shop is that they are helping to promote enthusiasm for the sport, which in turn means greater sales of bikes and equipment. As an example, I bought an entry-level hardtail mountain bike five months ago, and already, due largely to MORC and MOCA, my enthusiasm has led me to the purchase of another, considerably more expensive model from the same shop.

I guess ultimately, I stand by my original poll choices, but I feel that growing the organization will help in those goals, and I think some of the other poll choices will occur naturally out of a healthy organization.

[bike>>rider]

Not trying to escalate anything here, just making a simple point:

I've seen the argument repeated a few times now from the Red Wing group and others: What can MORC possibly offer me? (and to paraphrase) We do fine on our own.


I think you guys are missing something that is right in front of your face.

Last time I checked, Memorial had its own section of this website, including a trail review and pictures, not to mention countless threads advertising work sessions, races, group rides, general promotion, etc. How many people statewide would know about your trail if not for these forums? Something to think about.

MORC, it seems, is already doing quite a lot for you, at least in providing exposure.

[TML]

If we balloon our numbers into the high teens... or 20s... and there were more than a handful of dedicated volunteers willing to step up, then we might want to try and branch out to new parks/areas in the SE for some trails. This is when in my mind our changing goals would dovetail more with MORCs. Then becoming a chapter would make sense.

Isaac

I completely understand what you are saying Isaac. 6 people does not, a chapter make. You are already in good with the city so you are not trying to convince anyone that you are legit. When in time, your numbers grow and it's time to hit up other land managers, you're right, that will probably be a great time to have the added clout of being part of a larger organization.

Thanks for all you do in Red Wing and for being part of MORC, Isaac.

[jeffgude]

Its too bad that some of the posters here did not attend the MTB Summit & MORC Annual meeting a couple weeks ago at Afton Alps. This would have been a great opportunity to discuss these issues face to face.

[gus man]

As far as the local chapter issue goes, what I don't want to see is twin citiens coming down here on a trail day and lambasting me and my crew on what we are doing just because we aren't part of morc. Yes this has happened. Amazingly yet, I constantly here so many morc'ers rave about the memorial trail system.

There are a few specific things that I would like to see from morc. But thoose talks will begin after we get our local club thingy going here.

Also I see things from another perpecstus. As I slowely fade out of the scence here I need to know that relief I chose is not going p**s away 10 years of hard work in building and maintaining a solid relationship with th City of Red Wing who has been so very gracious to us.

My 2 cents. Thanks.

Gus man :banana:

[nutty]

I think morc would help out alot in the racing end of things . There is no fame or no little kids saying i want to be a mt biker when i grow up ,it needs to be promoted there needs to be fans there needs to be a icons to make something grow you have to make it great for anyone,if someone sees it they will like it , it must be promoted like football.

[Buck]

I think morc would help out alot in the racing end of things . There is no fame or no little kids saying i want to be a mt biker when i grow up ,it needs to be promoted there needs to be fans there needs to be a icons to make something grow you have to make it great for anyone,if someone sees it they will like it , it must be promoted like football.

and to do that we need lots of $$$.

I agree though. That is why races need to be turned more into festival style events. LIke DJJ in duluth no racing, just broin down the for the weekend. Like a progression session.

werd
Buck

[homebrewbiker]

I think all of the points are important for the organization.

I agree with Buck too, races that are festivals are a great way to attract lots of people, and some will get into the sport if they go out and see people having a great time!

[matanuska]

I think that as always morc is doing an excellent job in both the gaining and maintaining trails area.. but some of the other points are very valid as well and I think have potential to make the first two easier and more economical for everyone.. mainly I think social events, rider education and new membership.. all of these could be tied together if there was a possibility of organizing more education with rei or other shops that the average joe might stumble upon and say hey this might be kinda fun... maybe it has already been said.. but little to no free time cuts into both my riding and forum browsing time..
keep up the good work.. you guys and gals make it all happen thank you