FS vs Hardtail (Which is best)

[Fast1]

So out of curiosity which type of mountain bike ( Full Suspension vs Hardtail) is quicker on each of the different mountain bike trails around the Minneapolis area and reason why?

Lebanon Hills
Theo
River Bottoms
Battle Creek
Afton
Mammoth
Levis (Wisconsin)


On a recent ride out at Lebanon a friend with a Cannondale Prophet lefty would pull from me on the down hills especially when hitting stutter braking bumps and small cross trail logs. However near the end I could reel him in up the hills and smoother sections. Can one bike do it all at all ride locations?

Are there any hardtail riders that take the log pile at the xxx entrance at Lebanon with ease? Trying to figure out if it is just my skill level or my bike holding me back?

Also what tire pressures are suitable for the various locations?

[TrailSquirell]

well i've been hardtails all my life with racing xc so i know what your talkin about with the break hopin bumps. i had a stumpy fsrxc and i did like it, smoothed it out, but killed me on climbs. i like the hardtails for being able to throw it around. ther alot more responsive ridein at leb, turnin log piles into jumps, helps alot to have 100-120 travel on front once you start doin that. you can just do more with a hard tail, and not be restricted to just trails, they do hook up alot better ridein hills than a fs cuz your rear doesn't soak up the pedals, it just delivers.
part of it might be your skill level, it helps when rideing rough sections to stay over your rear a lil bit more when ridein a hardtail, plus learning how to manual and wheely help alot while controling the front end.
just my 2 cents

[Trevize1138]

If you want to be absolutely innundated with info and discussion on this from a past MORC thread:

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9122&highlight=full+suspension+hardtail

Enjoy :)

[crux]

All depends upon your riding tastes, some sick people like ripping off all the gears except for one and go ride rigid (well I'm half there).

Truthfully you don't need a FS bike here for our local trails, but they do take the edge off some of the bumps. Best advice I could give is just get out and ride. If you question your skills find an empty grassy field similar to the one just north of the leb lot and practice there. If you take a spill the cost of injury is very low in comparison with learning in the rock garden sections. You can always buy a slight improvment in performance, but the main factor is the rider. Work your skills and you will get better.


Tire pressure is around 30psi with wider tires 2.3-2.4.

[BKocka]

here we go again on this topic.....;)

[SpecHR55]

I started out on a HT then moved onto a FS. I dont ride alot of single track any more, mostly jumping and FR stuff but i liked my HT alot. Its way easier to throw around, better to learn things on, and there generaly cheaper. FS are fun to go through rougher sections with speed, but they can kinda be a pain the ars to do long distance on. (im not talking about a XC bike, a FR one haha) Im loving my FS but i highly recomend to start on a HT.

Tire pressure: umm...i run 2.5s and 2.7s at 60-65 psi on asphalt, and around 55 on trails.

Peace

[Kosk]

Tire pressure: umm...i run 2.5s and 2.7s at 60-65 psi on asphalt, and around 55 on trails.

:crazy2: Holy crap!! Try running around 30psi for tires that large. 55psi kinda defeats the purpose of having a large diameter tire. If you wanna run 55psi, get some 1.75s or something.... how much do you weigh?

[Wolfchimp]

Are there any hardtail riders that take the log pile at the xxx entrance at Lebanon with ease? Trying to figure out if it is just my skill level or my bike holding me back?



I ride ALL of Leb on my rigid SS and have never had a problem. Yeah there are a few sections that are rather rough but nothing the bike and I cant handle.:D I have only ridden a few FS bikes on the trails around the TC area and I think its overkill in most instances. Hardtail is the way to go in my opinion but FS does have some advantages...your body will like the FS better.:crazy2:

[phaberman1]

I have ridden both a hardtail and FS bike on most every trail in the twin cities. Though I would agree with Wolfchimp on some level that you don't NEED a full suspension bike around here. I ,personally, enjoy most every trail more on my FS bike (5" front and rear) and would argue it is NOT overkill if you enjoy it more. I ride with a large, diverse group of serious riders and over the years almost every one of them has eventually switched to riding almost exclusively FS bikes, except when racing. Wolfchimp knows the group, though he didn't know us when we were on hardtails. One thing though, we ar OLD (mostly). Ride what you like!

Gears are good!

[Sevadari]

I ride ALL of Leb on my rigid SS and have never had a problem. Yeah there are a few sections that are rather rough but nothing the bike and I cant handle.:D I have only ridden a few FS bikes on the trails around the TC area and I think its overkill in most instances. Hardtail is the way to go in my opinion but FS does have some advantages...your body will like the FS better.:crazy2:

Word.

If you're talking about what is "essential" for riding around TC trails, FS is definitely overkill...it's mainly an issue of comfort and, in the absence of improving one's skills, being able to ride more difficult terrain.

I agree that the main issue is one's riding skills and what type of riding experience you're looking for. Even though my ride is geared and fully squishy, on my last few rides out at Leb I've really enjoyed the feel and challenge of mimicking the SS experience by staying in one gear the whole time.

Which brings up a related point...unless you're independently wealthy (and don't have a family to support, or other interests!!!), for many of us we have to go with one bike that will cover all the potential types of terrain we will possibly come across...all at a certain pricepoint. If most of your riding is going to be here in TC but you still want to do some (uphill and) downhill or rocky riding out west or elsewhere, HT is probably what you want unless you don't mind the comfort vs. climbing efficiency tradeoff.

My .02 cents.

(Now I just have to convince my wife that I really do need an SS ride and some kind of road-type bike instead of those new school clothes for my kids!!!).

[nigel]

Bah who cares just get one of each :crazy:

[phaberman1]

Bah who cares just get one of each :crazy:

...or two.

[Sevadari]

...or two.

Lest your unridden bikes feel unwanted and abandoned, if any of you peddlers need someone to "permanently" baby sit one of your extra SS rides, just lemme know, I think I know someone that'd be mighty happy to oblige! :D;)

[SpecHR55]

:crazy2: Holy crap!! Try running around 30psi for tires that large. 55psi kinda defeats the purpose of having a large diameter tire. If you wanna run 55psi, get some 1.75s or something.... how much do you weigh?

I ride pure street with those (i should probably put some slicks on...) so i keep them at high psi, if i ran what im supposed to run it would slow me down alot on pavement.

Im a twig: 5'9, 130lbs, riding a 35lbs FS FR bike.....:etard:

[Trevize1138]

I'll say this about suspension (front or rear) vs. rigid:

Ride rigid for at least two months. Just try it.

Get a suspension-corrected rigid fork put on an HT bike, swap it out and try it for a good two months. One month isn't quite enough.

I tried that myself once and learned a lot about proper bike handling. When you don't have the "crutch" of suspension to fall back on you really improve your skills.

That said, I was very happy to go back to front suspension (I also went back to clipless pedals vs. platforms for identical reasons). But, I now no longer misuse my suspension fork by letting it do the work my arms and weight shifts should be doing.

So, I think that's what most anti-suspension folks really mean when they warn against suspension: bad riding techniques due to misuse of suspension. Suspension, by itself, is neither good nor bad. Instead, it provides some very specific benefits to your ride.

[TrailSquirell]

don't feel bad, i'm 6' 2" and weigh 165, you rnt the only twig lol! ya i'm normaly runnin 60 in rear and 50 in front on street, then 40 front and rear when i'm doin downhill and freeride stuff

[steef]

I just started riding FS late last year after many years of fully rigid, with only a few front suspensions thrown in. It's much easier on my old man back. Granted my FS bike only has ~2" of travel, and it's set very stiff but it's enough to ease the bumpy bumps.

[jkalla]

I'll say this about suspension (front or rear) vs. rigid:

Ride rigid for at least two months. Just try it.

Get a suspension-corrected rigid fork put on an HT bike, swap it out and try it for a good two months. One month isn't quite enough.

I tried that myself once and learned a lot about proper bike handling. When you don't have the "crutch" of suspension to fall back on you really improve your skills.

That said, I was very happy to go back to front suspension (I also went back to clipless pedals vs. platforms for identical reasons). But, I now no longer misuse my suspension fork by letting it do the work my arms and weight shifts should be doing.

So, I think that's what most anti-suspension folks really mean when they warn against suspension: bad riding techniques due to misuse of suspension. Suspension, by itself, is neither good nor bad. Instead, it provides some very specific benefits to your ride.


I remember reading an article where someone switched from a rigid bike to front suspension and initially they were a faster rider but eventually they slowed down back to where they were on the rigid. They felt it was because they became a poorer rider with suspension.

I ride a full suspension bike but still use my arms and legs to go over the big stuff (and even some of the not-so-big stuff).

[bike>>rider]

I just put a White Bros. AP-1 suspension seatpost on my HT and after two rides (Theo, Hillside), I think I like it a lot. It made my bike about a half pound heavier vs. the carbon post I had on before, but well worth the weight penalty IMO. Plus, my weight shaving should begin with a trip to the salad bar - ha!

All that said, I wish I had FS to correct for some rider error.

[soupboy]

Doesn't matter as long as it's a 29er.:banana:

As long as we're making broad generalizations I'll submit that bikes having technology beyond coaster brakes and banana seats are overkill for MN trails. For that matter, knobbies are unnecessary too.

[TrailSquirell]

knobbies are a beautiful thing, id like to see you ride slicks threw mud let alone really dry and sandy trails... can we say walking?

it doesn't matter what kind of bike you get, just get somethin you like and fits your style of rideing.

[slothlike]

Nah. I'm going to agree with Sean. Slicks are perfect for the metro trails. Back in the day I used 'em before I could afford a car to get to the trail. Man they really teach you to read a trail and pick a line. They work as well as anything in sand, cut down to the soil in mud, plus they don't pack up, but they are pretty slippery on gravel over hardpack. Can't say that I've ridden coaster brakes, but I bet they work great for skidding around a corner.

[Paul Swenson]

Doesn't matter as long as it's a 29er.:banana:

As long as we're making broad generalizations I'll submit that bikes having technology beyond coaster brakes and banana seats are overkill for MN trails. For that matter, knobbies are unnecessary too.


Do they make a 29er with coaster brakes and a banana seat?

[AC/BC]

Are there any hardtail riders that take the log pile at the xxx entrance at Lebanon with ease? Trying to figure out if it is just my skill level or my bike holding me back?


Me :crazy2:

[chico]

I use a Thudbuster seat post on my HT . It takes out a lot of the smaller bumps and stuttersand works well for most of the trails around here. i prefer my FS for Lebanon, and anything up in the cable/Hayward area.Usually anytime I plan on doing any offroad ride over 20 miles I opt for the FS. I've ridden the Cheq 40 and the Pre-fat on both and find i'm more comfortable and less tired after riding the FS on these.
Just my .02

[Trevize1138]

I use a Thudbuster seat post on my HT . It takes out a lot of the smaller bumps and stuttersand works well for most of the trails around here. i prefer my FS for Lebanon, and anything up in the cable/Hayward area.Usually anytime I plan on doing any offroad ride over 20 miles I opt for the FS. I've ridden the Cheq 40 and the Pre-fat on both and find i'm more comfortable and less tired after riding the FS on these.
Just my .02

YOu ever have problems with the little, metal cylindars in the joints of your ThudBuster pushing out of their holes? Both the ones on the bottom two joints of mine are doing so and I've only had it a couple months!

[chico]

No trouble at all. I've had it for 5 years I think. It seemed to be real stiff, so I removed the bolt that holds the elastomers and cleaned and greased them and put them back together. Much better. I did also driblle a bit of chain lube on the bar pivots.

[376]

I recently purchased a fs bike. While I was looking, I noticed a lot of these bikes have a little lever so you can lock up the rear suspension. Then it's almost like riding a ht. Best of both worlds.

[Wolfchimp]

YOu ever have problems with the little, metal cylindars in the joints of your ThudBuster pushing out of their holes? Both the ones on the bottom two joints of mine are doing so and I've only had it a couple months!

If you contact Cane Creek they will help you out. I have dealt with them and they are very helpful and friendly.


Email: info@canecreek.com
Telephone: 800-234-2725