Specialized Epic or Trek Fuel 70???

[chewie_52]

Currently riding a Trek 4100 from 2002 or 2003. Looking to upgrade to a full suspension bike and can't decide between a 2006 Trek Fuel 70 or 2006 Specialized Epic Base. Specialized has the "brain" on there rear suspension that I think would be very useful but doesn't have disc brakes while the Fuel 70 does. I do mostly XC with a lot of climbs and descents and some singletrack but nothing too technical. What do you guys think? Any suggestions or opinions are greatly welcomed! I briefly looked at the Specialized FSR XC too but leaning more towards the Epic...anyhoo, let me know what you guys think and thanks in advance to any advice or opinions!:)

[crux]

Test ride both and see which one fits you better. Asking whick is a better bike for me is really a personal question that only you can answer. If you are asking us to compare technical tradeoff then that would be fair. Personally for that price point and given riding style described I would seriously consider a Kona (Think that Behind Bars shop to check out for these or check the URL for Kona Direct.)

http://www.konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=365&parentid=253
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</td> <td> www.behind-bars.com (http://www.behind-bars.com/)</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[jeffgude]

You might want to double check the price as I think the Epic is considerably more expensive than the others you mentioned.

[Mountain Jam]

I ride a Trek Fuel 98 and I love it, I would suggest you save up a little more for a higher end model, the 70 and the base Epic are great rides but I think you would be happier going with something with better components. Plus the weight you could save by spending a bit more would really help out on the trail. Just my opinion, I tend to spend a little out of my budget when it comes to MTB bikes but so far it has been worth it!

[chewie_52]

Thanks for the suggestions! I just came across a company called Ibex bikes, I've never heard of them before but from the reviews I've read they seem to be pretty decent. Does anyone have any experience with them or heard of them before? The bike I'm looking at has great componentry and really seems to be the best bang for the buck compaired to anything else I can get in that price range. Here is the link:
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-Details.html
What do you guys think? Any suggestions are greatly welcomed!

[crux]

Thanks for the suggestions! I just came across a company called Ibex bikes, I've never heard of them before but from the reviews I've read they seem to be pretty decent. Does anyone have any experience with them or heard of them before? The bike I'm looking at has great componentry and really seems to be the best bang for the buck compaired to anything else I can get in that price range. Here is the link:
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-Details.html
What do you guys think? Any suggestions are greatly welcomed!

No first hand experience with Ibex so can't comment, and did not want to hijack the post but it seems as if your still attempting to determine a bike and pricepoint where you would feel comfortable. Check out http://mtbr.com/awards/xc_full_suspension.asp for a listing of really nice rides that are well reviewed. Price is going to be all over the board and value of a bike is a bit subjective depending upon who you ask.

Personally I like Ventana for dual suspension rides and Independent Fabrication hardtail frames but then again I am a bit partial to them after living out west. If you are a bit more experienced and want to select your own components then I could help you with that. If your looking for a production model then several local shops can help you out. I understand that we all want the best bang for the buck, but you really need to define your goals and budget for us to really help or advise on what we would consider the best potential ride.

[Sevadari]

Thanks for the suggestions! I just came across a company called Ibex bikes, I've never heard of them before but from the reviews I've read they seem to be pretty decent. Does anyone have any experience with them or heard of them before? The bike I'm looking at has great componentry and really seems to be the best bang for the buck compaired to anything else I can get in that price range. Here is the link:
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-Details.html
What do you guys think? Any suggestions are greatly welcomed!

D Louie, what a coincidence! :crazy2: I just bought a FS Ibex about 2 1/5 months ago and absolutely love it!

Mine's the Apogee, got it as a 2005 clearance and got a screaming deal--$800 for a great triple butted FS aluminum frame, LX derailleurs front and back, marzocchi EXR Race fork with 105mm travel, Avid BB5s, Truvativ firex cranks, Richey headset and rizer bars, etc.


Here's a picture of it taken just after I got it:


http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&c (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&cat=&ppuser=2381)at=&ppuser=2381 (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&cat=&ppuser=2381)

(Don't worry, the reflectors and plastic pedal platforms have been taken off and it's fully trail worthy :etard: )


FYI, here is a link for the MTBR Ibex manufacturer forum:


http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=105


Without getting into a debate about the merits of LBS vs. "on-line shops", you will quickly see from this forum that Ibex has incredible customer support and a rapidly growing fan base and, most importantly, some great rides!

2006 is the first year that Ibex has made the Asta and it's slated to eventually replace the Apogee as their all-mountain FS bike. The early feedback seems to indicate that the Asta is a solid performer and will stand the test of time.

In the last month I've logged about 250 miles or so on my Apogee, about 1/3 or so of that on the trail and 2/3 on the road (trying to get back into shape and getting ready for a couple of multi-day long distance trips). It has easily handled everything I could dish out while riding Leb, Theo Wirth, Hillside, Elm Creek, and some urban riding/jumping. Since this is my first FS, I'm still learning how to push it to its capacity and get the most out of it...so far it shows no signs of disappointing.

If you're serious enough about it, I'd be happy to meet up sometime so you could check it out and take a spin. Bottom line with Ibex...great bikes with LOTS of bang for your buck. Obviously they're not going to be competing with the real high end bikes, but that's not what they're trying to do.

One note of caution, if you're squeamish about the on-line thing, might not be the way to go for you. But, if you do your homework and the prep work (i.e., talking to Jack at Ibex to figure out the best fit for you), etc., it can get you into a nice ride at a very reasonable pricepoint. Worst case scenario, you're out the $70 bucks for shipping and they return your full money without any questions.


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(http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&cat=&ppuser=2381)

[crux]

Looks quite similar to a Titus Switchblade and the Specialized FSR design. Have the Titus and ridden several other FSR designs and they all handled well.

The Asta it looks to have a rear suspension design similar to that of a Racer-X which is also a decent ride.

I'd take chewie up on his offer and check out his Ibex and see if you like the quality of the ride. If you ride a 19" I could let you take my Fuego out for a spin as it and the Racer-x design ride fairly similar or if your interested have a Demo Switchblade up for grabs as well although the cheaper option would be the Ibex. If your a newbie at wrenching on bikes I'd be happy to help you build it up at the shop (no charge) as it appears as if there is some assembly required.


Mine's the Apogee, got it as a 2005 clearance and got a screaming deal--$800 for a great triple butted FS aluminum frame, LX derailleurs front and back, marzocchi EXR Race fork with 105mm travel, Avid BB5s, Truvativ firex cranks, Richey headset and rizer bars, etc.

Here's a picture of it taken just after I got it:

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&c (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&cat=&ppuser=2381)at=&ppuser=2381 (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&cat=&ppuser=2381)
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(http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2403&size=big&cat=&ppuser=2381)

[Sevadari]

I'd take chewie up on his offer and check out his Ibex and see if you like the quality of the ride. ...

...although the cheaper option would be the Ibex. If your a newbie at wrenching on bikes I'd be happy to help you build it up at the shop (no charge) as it appears as if there is some assembly required.

Sorry in advance for another long post...

Just for the record, "chewie" was the one asking the questions and I'm the one with the Ibex (Shahram). I know my name's pretty tough and it's to be expected that people will mis-pronounce it (my favorite to date is being called Charmin, as in "don't squeeze the..."!!!), but come on, it's not that tough to copy and paste it correctly ;););) !

I'm totally joking crux. Actually, lemme take this chance to just say really quickly how impressed I am that you take the time to "guide" people on getting quality new rides. Sure, from what I have read you've got a vested interest of sorts, but nonetheless, your sincerity comes through (even electronically!).

Now, back on thread...

So far I've been reaaal happy with my Ibex. Climbs real well, handles downhills like a dream, and corners quite nicely-and I'm still trying to dial in the suspension just right. May just be the recently-switched-to-FS factor, but I swear I can do stuff with this bike that I never would have dreamed of on my old fully rigid or friend's hard tail. I've ridden a handful of times on other FS rides (NRS mostly) and this bike's got just as much, if not more, mojo.

As per the bike "assembly", it is REALLY light. Basically you just have to put the bars, seat and pedals on and hook up the hubs to the fork/dropouts. In some rare cases other owners have mentioned having to do some derailleur tuning, but that is quite rare (aside from the regular post-break in period tuning).

If y'all have any other questions/comments about the Ibex, I'd be happy to PM, email, or post up with ya.

And just so you know where I stand on it...in most cases I do feel quite strongly about supporting your LBS. Except in rare cases (like with ONE location :mad: of a very large local bike shop chain that will remain nameless!!!), you can really develop a tight, long term, and mutually beneficial relationship and get real good customer service. There are times and circumstances, however, where you just can't pass up a good deal and, IMO, the push it gives LBSs to stay on their game and not get too lax is justifiable.

[Heuy]

Back to your original question, assuming that you narrowed it down to Fuel 70 vs. Epic Base, a few things I would like to mention:

1. Really this is not a fair comparison: The Epic has about twice the MSRP of the Fuel 70. The Fuel 80 is a closer match, but even there you're looking at $1500 vs. $2000

2. That being said you need to ride them both ON DIRT I liked the Fuel until I rode one downhill and had to deal with the brake jacking that occurs in non-FSR bikes, however I ride such a big bike that I think being that far above the suspension applies more leverage on it.

3. as far as disks, a lot of people prefer the Avid BB7 such as is factory on the Epic Base Disk over hydralic units, especially in an xc application. However if you have to buy a bike w/o disks as long as it is disk compatible the BB7 is not that expensive of an upgrade.

4. Frames and suspensions are not upgradeable.

5. My opinion is biased because I ride an epic.

[bakkeb]

How about neither and pick a bike company that no one has. Don't conform.... be different. Titus and Kona is in the right direction:etard:

[manual63]

How about an On-One Inbred singlespeed........:)

I saw 3 on the Theo tail last night. That's 3 not including mine or mara's. They are sweet rides.

Oh, if you want springy and gears for some really odd reason, the Epic is the machine......no reason to debate it even.

[Danimal]

one web site...

www.transitionbikes.com

[manual63]

How about neither and pick a bike company that no one has. Don't conform.... be different. Titus and Kona is in the right direction:etard:

I saw at least 3 Kona's last night at Theo. It seemed like every local in Fruita had a Titus. Are you sure no one rides these brands???

It's been said many times and is pretty much a known fact in mountain biking. The FSR suspension design dominates. It's got something to do with the 4 bars and the fact there is a rear pivot on the chainstays in front of the dropouts. Don't know many more details than that, but I have heard enough to know it's a solid design that most manufacturers want to copy, but Specailized has a patent on it.

[Heuy]

It is true that Specialized has a patent on the four bar linkage.

There are other brands that liscense it however. Some include the Turner Burner, Santa Cruz Blur ( my current dream machine), and I believe that there is a KHS XC machine that is a lot like the fuel except w/a four bar.

One issue I always run into is the whole mass-produced bike thing. It would be cool to have a hand built bike from some tatooed guy in the Canadian Rockies. However when I start shopping seriously I am reminded why mass-production was invented. I can simply get more bike for the money from some of the bigger names that have stuff mass produced in third world countries or by robots.

This is something you'll have to sort out personally, and you simply have to decide if you care, and if you do, how much, in dollar terms.

Probably beyond the scope of this forum.

[Sevadari]

It is true that Specialized has a patent on the four bar linkage.

There are other brands that liscense it however.

For what it's worth, the Ibex Apogee line have the "4-bar" design as well. This is one potential benefit of the Apogees over the Astas. Here's a link to my 2005 from Ibex's archives so you can get a look at it with full specs:

http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/2005/APG-SPT-Specs.html

And here's this year's Apogee lines:

http://www.ibexbikes.com/Stacks/Series_Apogee.html

For those that are interested, here's a cool link on the Specialized website on the FSR suspension (make sure you check out the cool links at the bottom of the page comparing other FS designs to the FSR):

http://www.specialized.com/sbc4Bar.jsp?minisite=10082

Enjoy!

[SprocketHead]

Don't forget Ellsworth... I'm currently drooling over this one and trying to figure out how I'm gona pay for it! $$$$$

Any Opinions on these????

http://www.ellsworthbikes.com/bikes/epiphany/photos/ellsworth_epiphany.jpg

[rejectedusername]

I currently ride a 2003 Epic that I build up with components of my own choosing last winter. It is a great ride, and I'd gladly buy another Epic in the future.

It took me a while to get used to the feel of a full suspension bike, but now that I am, I love my Epic. It climbs and descends like a dream. The suspension does tighten up a bit when I really get on the brakes (hydro discs), but the bike is still compliant.

The only other full suspension XC bike I would have gotten was a Rocky Mountain Element. http://www.bikes.com/bikes/2006/element/index.aspx Rocky makes some great bikes and all their frames are hand-built in Canada. I really liked my Rocky hardtail and heard great things about the Element, but I no longer live by a Rocky dealer, so I went with Specialized.

If you are really budget conscious, you might be able to find some 2005's still sitting around.