Interesting method for tightening spokes

[Pete Hamer]

I came across this spoke tighening method while doing research on motorcycle wheel building. It's actually kinda brilliant and should apply nicely to bicycles. It sounds kinda complicated at first but once you get it it's actually simple. Just thought I'd share it with everyone.

"Use the following procedure as an example.

*It is very important to only turn your nipples a half of a revolution, or two flats at a time on a newly laced wheel. If you find yourself having to turn more than a half of a turn go to the next spoke in the pattern, and gradually bring the nipples up to torque by working the pattern. Once you have all your spokes close to the torque range this will no longer be necessary. If you turn the nipple more than 180 degrees to bring it up to torque you will pull the offset of the wheel off to one side or the other.
<LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Start at the spoke next to the valve hole. Call it spoke #1 <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Back off spoke #1 until it turns freely, then tighten until spoke torque wrench clicks. <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Go to spoke #4 - repeat step #2. It will come from the other side of the wheel. <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Go to spoke #7 - repeat step #2. <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Go to spoke #10 - repeat step #2. <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Continue around the wheel torquing every third spoke, until coming back to spoke #1 (on a 36-spoke wheel). Move to spoke #2 and repeat step #2. <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Go to spoke #5, then #8, then #11, continuing this pattern all the way back to spoke #2. <LI style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Move to #3 and use the same procedure on spokes #6, #9, #12 and so on around the wheel.
It will take 3 revolutions of the wheel to complete the torquing process. You will torque 12 spokes per revolution on a 36 spoke wheel."
What's nice about it is that if you are bringing all the spokes in a wheel up to tension you won't get 3/4 of the way around the wheel and realize that you can't turn the last 1/4 of the nipples as much the first 3/4 thereby leaving the rim out of round. By tightening every third spoke you end up tightening one spoke per set (1. drive side pulling, 2. drive side pushing, 3. non-drive pulling, 4. non-drive pushing) of spokes per revolution of the wheel but you've added tension all the way around the wheel. From there you should always be able to get the rest of the spokes in the set up to the same tension as the already tight spokes.
:)

[Ala Carte]

I find this technique really useful when building a stiff carbon road rim ie Zipp, HED. Those rims are way too stiff to pull out a hop, so it helps to tension evenly and slowly.

[Pete Hamer]

I find this technique really useful when building a stiff carbon road rim ie Zipp, HED. Those rims are way too stiff to pull out a hop, so it helps to tension evenly and slowly.

Where did you here about it? I didn't know anyone was doing it with bicycle wheels.

[Standard]

I've been using that method for a while..

[Pete Hamer]

I've been using that method for a while..

I take it that means you like it. Where did you hear about t?

[nigel]

This is actually one of the ways I was taught to build wheels by old shop guys. Less movement overall and its more accuruate. Just took me a while to remember which spokes where which.

[Pete Hamer]

This is actually one of the ways I was taught to build wheels by old shop guys. Less movement overall and its more accuruate. Just took me a while to remember which spokes where which.

Well it seems like I'm the last person to hear about this method. I'm glad I brought it up though. It sounds like it 's a good method if so many ecellent techs already use it.

[frogfacepierre]

if you're building a wheel up and tensioning the spokes any other way you are retarded.

[jjrsds]

Ah thanks for the retard reference :D . I hadn't hear of this method either but will try it on the next wheel I build for myself or someone else. Always a great moment when techniques come out to educate the novices. I've been using Gerd Schraner's "The Art of Wheelbuilding" book when building wheels and haven't had a problem, but I do see the technique as probably being faster and eliminating radial trueness when building the wheel.

[Pete Hamer]

if you're building a wheel up and tensioning the spokes any other way you are retarded.

Not nice to make fun:cryin: . Did you learn this type behavior from your place of employment? I hope you don't talk to customers like that.

[Pete Hamer]

I'm still curious about where other people learned of this method. I've accumulated a lot of training over the years, worked with a lot of great mechanics and done a lot of reasearch and I no one has ever mentioned this method. I found it strange that I came across it so soon in my motorcycle wheelbuilding research but have never heard anyone profess it in the bicycle industry. Maybe John Barnett, Jobst Brandt, and Gerd Schraner are all retarded.

[bigwheel]

I had never heard of it either, but it does make sense.

My amateur cheater method: I've found that with spoke lengths chosen using the DT spoke calculator, the finished wheel will usually have all the spokes within 1 turn of being flush with the screwdriver slot in the nipple. Knowing this, you can get the wheel very close before you even look at the trueness or touch a tension gauge to it.

Just start out with several spoke threads exposed. Then start making the rounds, keeping the same number of threads showing on each spoke, until they start to seem tight. After the spoke threads disappear, you can still count threads remaining on the inside of the nipple. This nerarly guarantees that it won't be out of round. Usually, it is also very close to true (side-to-side) at this point. Then, I use the truing stand and the tension meter to finish the job and make sure it is dished properly.

[Wheels]

I'm still curious about where other people learned of this method. I've accumulated a lot of training over the years, worked with a lot of great mechanics and done a lot of reasearch and I no one has ever mentioned this method. I found it strange that I came across it so soon in my motorcycle wheelbuilding research but have never heard anyone profess it in the bicycle industry. Maybe John Barnett, Jobst Brandt, and Gerd Schraner are all retarded.

Pete, I thought I described it when we were talking on the other thread about wheel building (this winter). :D That's what I was talking about when I was describing the skip to the 3rd method.

When you build a wheel like this it also stay stronger, truer, longer - because there is very little movement after the initial build. Often you won't even need to re-tension after you've ridden it. That's why I don't know how to use one of those there tensionometers ... :)


Hey Ty, who taught you that? :)

[Pete Hamer]

Pete, I thought I described it when we were talking on the other thread about wheel building (this winter). :D That's what I was talking about when I was describing the skip to the 3rd method.

When you build a wheel like this it also stay stronger, truer, longer - because there is very little movement after the initial build. Often you won't even need to re-tension after you've ridden it. That's why I don't know how to use one of those there tensionometers ... :)


Hey Ty, who taught you that? :)

I went back to look at that thread. http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15594&highlight=good+wheel+builder Chances are I didn't get your reference at that time since I wasn't aware of the method back then. You did mention a tensioning/tightening technique but it didn't get anymore specific.

Speaking of re-tensioning a wheel after riding it, I've noticed some novice mechanics that use a tension meter to get the wheels to a certain tension while building. Then they re-check the tension after riding it and notice that the tension is lower. What they fail to realize is that tire pressure will reduce spoke tension so you need to let the air out of the tire before measuring.
For more info. on this go to http://www.promechanics.com/tutorial/refine.htm

[Primo Tiki]

if you're building a wheel up and tensioning the spokes any other way you are retarded.

You do realize that everyone can see who you work for. Please stop representing my employer in such a negative way.

[Wheels]

Oh well, I guess I wasn't that specific - I think I was talking about bringing them up to tension evenly negating the need for tensionometer, I didn't re-read the old post.

Ironically Pete, Area Wide in Excelsior is where I learned the method (as discussed in the other thread).

Good luck with the new shop :) They need a good shop out that way.

[Pete Hamer]

Oh well, I guess I wasn't that specific - I think I was talking about bringing them up to tension evenly negating the need for tensionometer, I didn't re-read the old post.

Ironically Pete, Area Wide in Excelsior is where I learned the method (as discussed in the other thread).

Good luck with the new shop :) They need a good shop out that way.
I'm just glad I finally learned of this method. You can never stop learning in this business.

[Wheels]

I have to track down the name of the "blind wheel builder" I mentioned before (can't believe I've spaced his name).

That may answer you're question about who taught this method around these parts. He taught the guy who taught me.

He also taught me to prep the spokes with Phil tenacious oil - especially when using alloy nipples. I have wheels built years ago where the spokes were treated, and you can still turn the nipples with ease when truing. I do this on both moto and bike wheels.