Beltline - Danger Zone!

[stefan]

Just a quick update on that nasty crossing just south of Hwy 7 in Saint Louis Park:

-A biker was hit last week at this crossing. Apparently this person has died from their injuries.

-Someone I work with was ticketed with a warning today at this intersection for stopping their vehicle to let a biker cross the road. Apparently, the police do not want you to stop for trail users.

This seems to me a strong indication that some more drastic measures need to be taken at this crossing; something like a stop sign, walk bridge (or tunnel under the road?), or a trail reroute, because right now that crossing is causing constant close calls and near-accidents on a daily basis.

In any event, I wanted to let everyone know that if you blow through this crossing, cars are being told that you are the one who needs to watch out, so take the time to wait until it's clear. Life is worth more than a minute or two of minor inconvenience.

-Stefan

[Tex]

Where did you read that the person died? I've been trying to find anything about that accident, and I haven't seen anything.
Also, the person you work with was ticketed for stopping for someone in a crosswalk? I would have to assume your co-worker can contect that one in court.

[stefan]

The officer told the person ticketed that the accident victim from last week had died. I'm not 100% sure if the ticket was about the crosswalk itself, or that it requires you to stop on railroad tracks; I'm thinking the latter.

-Stefan

[col200]

That's really sad he died. I'm sure the person in their BMW or Lexus is planning on where to go out to dinner tonight. Ok, that's a little harsh. Sure, it was both of them who are to "blame" but when one is driving a one ton killing machine and the other, a 30lb bike, it's hard not to put 100% of the blame on the driver. Anyway, that sucks and that crossing IS a big problem.

[bike>>rider]

Are you talking about the SW LRT trail? Is this the crossing that is a couple blocks from BikeMasters? If so, yeah, that is a really busy area, and it's a wide street that takes awhile to cross. Sad to hear about that.

[stefan]

That spot has the same problems, but the crossing I'm referring to is the one east of Highway 100.

[Tetreves]

I know the one you're talking about (on Beltline Blvd., just south of Hwy 7).

I drive that way home from work sometimes (the same days I wish I would commute on my bike). I ALWAYS see people crossing on the trail, and stop for them, while other cars fly by. It's a BIG problem!

The trail is very busy, and the road is very busy, but none of the cars will stop. :mad:

[RedSquirrel]

Yep, both road crossings are bad. The one of orig topic connects Hwy3/Excelsior and Hwy7, people fly. Someone died, made me sit back a bit....whoa.

The other intersection on the West side of 100, right by Hiogaards stinks too. Byerlys traffic and same as above....plus they are building Condo's...like it wasn't congested enough.

In both areas drivers are stop & go, frustrated & in a hurry.

6:00am rides are better in these areas...avoid at other times.

Something needs to be done, yes...police tickets for cars stopping to allow bikers to cross...what ever happend to peds right away. Problem.

[MisterClaw]

I know the one you're talking about (on Beltline Blvd., just south of Hwy 7).

I drive that way home from work sometimes (the same days I wish I would commute on my bike). I ALWAYS see people crossing on the trail, and stop for them, while other cars fly by. It's a BIG problem!

The trail is very busy, and the road is very busy, but none of the cars will stop. :mad:

I was out there last night too, and this is a major problem, I agree. I don't trust all 4 lanes of cars to stop.
Stupid question - aren't cars supposed to yield to bikes and pedestrians in a crosswalk? looks like a marked crosswalk to me, even from google maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Saint+Louis+Park,+MN&ll=44.943539,-93.339999&spn=0.003341,0.008454&t=h&om=1

[stefan]

So, what can people do to promote change? Can we take this to the city council or something? Or do we have to bring out lawn chairs and grills and big signs that say "Slow the %#$& down"?

[bike>>rider]

This just shows what a long ways we have yet to go before the general population views bicycle transportation as a legitimate alternative. I can't believe the cops don't want cars stopping for bikers.

I have to say that last summer my experience crossing was better. I'd say at least 50-60% of the cars would stop. Maybe as we move into summer it'll get better.

Then again, with gas prices what they are today, stopping for a bike crosser and than having to accellerate again probably burns about a buck or so -- maybe that explains it.

[Tex]

Stupid question - aren't cars supposed to yield to bikes and pedestrians in a crosswalk?

It's really not a stupid question, because a lot of people don't understand the law regarding crosswalks. But here's what I've found from just doing a quick google seaarch of Minnesota state laws pertaining to crosswalks:

"As has been the law since 1996, where traffic control signals are not in place or in operation, drivers must stop when a pedestrian is in a crosswalk. Effective September 1, 2000, a vehicle that is stopped at a crosswalk will be allowed to proceed once the pedestrian has completely crossed the lane in front of the stopped vehicle."

http://www.mnsafetycouncil.org/nr/xwalk00.htm

"(f) A person lawfully operating a bicycle on a sidewalk, or across a roadway or shoulder on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances"

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/169/222.html (http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/169/222.html)

[tedsti]

Crosswalks are for pedestrians. We (cyclists) always claim a right to the road and should be treated with the same respect as a car/truck. The way I see it is if the person is walking their bike (pedestrian), then the cars should stop. If the person is riding their bike (on the crosswalk) then they are a vehicle and probably don't have the right of way vs. the cars on the road. We can't have it both ways and claim all the rights of a pedestrian when it suits us and then claim the rights of vehicles when that suits us.

Edit: Eric jumped in ahead of me with the legal mumbo-jumbo that proves my jiberish wrong.

[rideharder]

if im not mistaken "trail crossings" and "crosswalks" are different and cars dont have to stop at trail crossings unless it is marked as a ped crosswalk with the yellow sign with the black person on it.
PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALKS TRAFFIC POLICY FOR CITIES IN METRO AREA

1. The provisions of the Minnesota Manual on Uniform Traffic Control
Devices (MUTCD) shall be followed.
2. Relevant speed, volumes, accident records, pedestrian counts,
sight obstructions and demographic analysis shall be reviewed
when considering pedestrian crosswalk installations.
3. Absent engineering data which clearly indicates the need for a
pedestrian crosswalk, intersections will remain unmarked.
4. Pedestrian crosswalks shall be placed only at locations that are
unusually hazardous or at locations not readily apparent as having
pedestrian movement.
5. Pedestrian crosswalks shall only be placed in an area that has in
excess of 20 pedestrians crossing for a minimum of two hours
during any eight-hour period.
6. Pedestrian crosswalks shall be installed with both pavement
striping and crossing signs located at the specific point of the
crossing.
7. Pedestrian crosswalks shall not be located on arterial roads or
roads with a speed limit greater than 30 MPH unless in
conjunction with signalization.
8. Pedestrian crosswalks shall only be placed at intersections.
9. Any of the following conditions may warrant pedestrian crosswalks:
a. Those locations adjacent to and along established
pedestrian routes to and from a school.
b. Locations adjacent to community centers, libraries, and
other high use public facilities.
c. Locations adjacent to public parks.
d. Locations where accident records, sight obstructions and/or
pedestrian volume (see No. 5) warrants the installation.
e. Locations where significant numbers of handicapped
persons cross a street.
f. Locations where significant numbers of senior citizens cross
a street or highway.

[RedSquirrel]

Ironically my wife just read me the Saint Louis Park, Sun Sailor Newspaper article on this...our local newspaper.

The local paper claimed, last Wednesday, a 29 year old entered the beltline intersection at a high rate of speed, hit the side of a car, something about a bumper...NOT WEARING A HELMET!!! Ok, tables of blame are turning for me...

The paper said it's not a crosswalk and bikers must yeild to cars. Hmmmm.

Still, dude died. The intersections should be idiot proof (both for frustrated drivers & eager bikers)...

I'm no politician but as a Saint Louis Park resident I'll support any efforts on this. What to do?? Stefan, others, I really don't know where to go with this...

edit: at time of press subject was critical condition

[Tex]

if im not mistaken "trail crossings" and "crosswalks" are different and cars dont have to stop at trail crossings unless it is marked as a ped crosswalk with the yellow sign with the black person on it.
PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALKS TRAFFIC POLICY FOR CITIES IN METRO AREA

5. Pedestrian crosswalks shall only be placed in an area that has in
excess of 20 pedestrians crossing for a minimum of two hours
during any eight-hour period.

d. Locations where accident records, sight obstructions and/or
pedestrian volume (see No. 5) warrants the installation.

I just rode in this morning, and I crossed both intersections safely. I jumped off the trail at the Beltline intersection and looked. It IS a "trail crossing" not a crosswalk. So without the city, or whoever, changing it to a crosswalk (as in a couple of the above senerios) it looks like we need to yeild to the autos. It's a drag, but at least now we know.
Also, I wrote in to WCCO news last night to see if they might do a story on this subject. Being that there are far more people commuting by bicycle these days. So we'll see if anything becomes of it.

[col200]

Good thinking with the WCCO suggestion. That might also encourage drivers to keep an eye open for bikers.

[Tex]

Ironically my wife just read me the Saint Louis Park, Sun Sailor Newspaper article on this...our local newspaper.

Here's a link to the article
http://www.mnsun.com/articles/2006/04/27/news/sl27bicycle.txt

and for those who don't want to click

Bicyclist critically injured after hitting car

BY TERI KELSH - SUN NEWSPAPERS
(Created: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:21 PM CDT)

A bicyclist was reportedly in critical condition with injuries he sustained from failing to yield to traffic Wednesday afternoon, April 19, in St. Louis Park.

Police say a 29-year-old male riding his bike east on the Three Rivers Park District trail entered the intersection at Beltline Boulevard and struck the side of a car, causing injury to himself and damage to the vehicle.

"Witnesses said the bicyclist came into the intersection at a high rate of speed without stopping and struck the left corner fender of a vehicle," said St. Louis Park Police Sgt. Chad Kraayenbrink.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><!-- AdSys ad not found for news:instory --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Police officers, fire personnel and Hennepin County Medical Center paramedics administered medical attention to the man at the scene. He was not wearing a helmet.

The man was eventually transported to Hennepin County Medical Center.

As of press time, he remained in critical condition.

"We've experienced quite a few complaints at that intersection," said Kraayenbrink. "Trail users have the responsibility to stop. Cars have the right-of-way. It's not a crosswalk."

Police, in conjunction with the Three Rivers Park District, have conducted safety seminars in St. Louis Park about trail safety. Kraayenbrink said they are likely to hold more.

"It's a matter of educating people about trail use," he said.

St. Louis Park police, the Hennepin County Sheriff's Office and the Minnesota State Patrol are continuing to investigate the accident.

[stefan]

Just read the article myself this morning. There's definitely a lack of communication on the city's behalf about how these crossings are supposed to be treated.

I still see a problem where someone may be mid-way crossing the road, and some idiot flying up at 40-45mph (a VERY common speed even though it's a 30mph zone) off of highway 7 and plowing into you. It's just too busy an intersection. People in cars are going to continue stopping once in a while to let you cross, because it's not being communicated that they shouldn't stop, and some drivers, amazingly, just happen to be considerate of other people.

So, regardless of what the law says, something definitely needs to be done to stupid-proof crossings of this type.

I'll do some digging this weekend and see if there's a good channel for us to communicate the concern with.

[rideharder]

[There's definitely a lack of communication on the city's behalf about how these crossings are supposed to be treated.

the main point is it isnt the city's lack of communciation, it is the un-educated rider. it is an uncontrolled crossing in the autos perspective so you cant expect the traffic to stop. if you pick up any basic riders guide it will state the rules of crossings. i know that the Uof MN and hennepin county both have flyers on cycling and safety.

So, regardless of what the law says, something definitely needs to be done to stupid-proof crossings of this type.

as for thing to right the situation, the city and hennepin county have a less of concern in the little porblems like trail traffic control. so to get your opinion heard you need to approch them with a proposal and data (like rider count and time of day) to support your reasoning. this is just coming from a land planners point of view. just dont present as cars are "bad". and the WCCO thing is a good idea to get public awareness.

[Tetreves]

I still see a problem where someone may be mid-way crossing the road, and some idiot flying up at 40-45mph (a VERY common speed even though it's a 30mph zone) off of highway 7 and plowing into you. It's just too busy an intersection. People in cars are going to continue stopping once in a while to let you cross, because it's not being communicated that they shouldn't stop, and some drivers, amazingly, just happen to be considerate of other people.


I agree whole-heartedly with this. In fact, I would say there is definately a probability of this situation in the recent death. Granted that he wasn't wearing a helmet, but to say the biker was moving at "high speed", and not mention the speed of the car, is unfair. Just because he ran into the side of the car, doesn't mean that he was travelling faster than the car...

And you're right, that intersection is WIDE for a bike crossing <four lanes> of traffic moving at 40 mph. Just because it's not a "crosswalk", doesn't mean it's a safe "trail crossing".

[col200]

One of the problems with that area is that, during rush hour, the light at Hwy7 can really back up. Once that light turns green, people make a mad rush to get through.

[bobbkr]

My wife and I were riding our tandem on this trail and almost got taken out by a cop car! It was clear except for the cop approaching so I thought "he will stop for us, he's a cop". He blew right through! Never expect cars to yield.
Another time I saw a salesman type almost take out a bike that was in the crosswalk. The guy was on his cell phone and writing on a tablet while driving and totally oblivious. Idiot!!! I was in my car along side of him and honked at him but he didn't hear.

[RedSquirrel]

Saint Loius Park Sun Sailor Article, June 15th. Not to re-hash an old topic but in case interested...

http://www.mnsun.com/articles/2006/06/16/news/sl15bikecops.txt

The article mentions the confusion over ped vs. trail crossing....cars shouldn't stop, bike should. It mentions a man was critically injured two months ago. ....wear helmet for saftey(not a law).....bike cops have guns...

If you have the actual paper there is an interesting "bicycle facts" section. I couldn't find an on-line reference. 66% of MN people ride bikes.....MN leads nation wiith miles of trails 1,300 miles, 395 miles paved State....62% of U.S. and State HWY's have 6ft shoulder bikes can use, scarry to me.....

[bobbkr]

Wow. That's a new one to me. How do you know the difference between a crosswalk and a trail crossing? Interesting article.