Trail poached!

[Trevize1138]

I just took a ride out to Theo to spot check the trail and counted around 5 tire tracks from trail poachers. The yellow caution tape had also been taken down in a couple of spots.

In my spot check of the trail there were several spots with 1-2 inch deep ruts cut by the poachers. That means more time maintaining old trail and less time building new trail, folks. If that doesn't get your blood boiling, I don't know what will.

Here's what I propose all fans of the Theo trails do:

If you're out riding the roads, ride by or out to Theo if you can. Take a 15 minute water/energy bar break at key entrance and exit points such as the entrance to the North loop where the ski trail makes a Y. If you see anyone show up and attempt to ride the trail, politely stop them and inform them the trail is closed for the spring thaw.

Make sure they understand they are damaging this trail by riding it and that damage will have to be repaired. Make sure they understand this is at the request of all patrons of the trail, not just the volunteers who work on it.

I do believe these trail poachers simply do not know they are damaging the trail. Think about that when you educate them about why it's closed. They could very well turn around and wait until the trail's open just because of the new knowledge of the damage they're doing.

Certainly you may encounter belligerent folks who take a "me first" attitude and can't be reasoned with, but they're in the minority.

Thank you, all! :banana:

[manual63]

That's a big bummer. We have signs up that explain why not to ride the trail and people still do it. I would assume that these people are just going to be selfish and ride anyway if they go through the effort to tear down the tape and ignore the sign.

A big BOOOO for whoever did this.....whether they are on these forums or not......:mad:

[seberly]

So, I was running around lake Calhoun last Saturday, ran past two other runners who were talking, heard them mention that they were going biking on Sunday morning - one said, hey let's go off road - at that point I decided to say - "couldn't help but overhear you guys talking, all the trail I know are closed" - they didn't really appreciate what I had to say but maybe it made a difference. There are two points I think 1) the average rider doesn't think about the trail not being ready to ride 2) if you say something in the right way it can make a difference.

[col200]

I know it's stated on the map signs "OPEN when dry" but are those panels flipped to say "CLOSED when wet"? I actually haven't been out there since there was snow so I don't know. I remember Pete and I discussing that panel and decided it was a good idea, but I have yet to see the panel flipped. I don't know if that would help much but people might ride by and see "CLOSED" and think twice. If not, either someone can do it if they're in the area or I can ride out tomorrow and do it.

[[defective]]

After the Saturday paved ride I stopped in at CRC and overheard a guy talking about how he had just ridden Wirth and had to hose the mud off his bike at a carwash.

I think I was pleasant and straightforward in explaining the situation to him, but it wasn't easy being civil. He seemed to understand, but I got the feeling his demeanor was just humoring me. Rebels do what they wanna. Damn the fallout and repercussions. Screw everyone else.

Grrr.

[Fast1]

sounds like you need a few motion detector cameras..

seriously, I feel it is lack of education and that 95% would not ride if they knew the reasons why.

[berrywise]

sounds like you need a few motion detector camaras..

seriously, I feel it is lack of education and that 95% would not ride if they knew the reasons why.

I think this debate has been gone over a hundred times on this site and I think the clear consensus is that either they A. Don't know any better or B. Know better but just don't give a damn. Hopefully there are more A's than B's out there.

[devo kenivel]

maybe someone should put in some of those "tire blower upper spike-type things" that are in ramps for cars that go the wrong way. i'm not serious here but damn that would be kinda funny. especially if they were warned. guarantee they'd think twice next time.

sorry for the lack of technical savvyness. i just don't know what those things are called.

[Trevize1138]

That's a big bummer. We have signs up that explain why not to ride the trail and people still do it. I would assume that these people are just going to be selfish and ride anyway if they go through the effort to tear down the tape and ignore the sign.

I don't agree with this attitude at all.

A) I honestly believe that it's the minority of people who tear down the tape and the majority follows them in, ignoring the signs.

B) Even if every poacher out there has a "I don't care if I'm ruining the trail" attitude and knows better we shouldn't just throw up our hands and say "Oh well, can't stop people from riding it."

[Trevize1138]

I know it's stated on the map signs "OPEN when dry" but are those panels flipped to say "CLOSED when wet"? I actually haven't been out there since there was snow so I don't know. I remember Pete and I discussing that panel and decided it was a good idea, but I have yet to see the panel flipped. I don't know if that would help much but people might ride by and see "CLOSED" and think twice. If not, either someone can do it if they're in the area or I can ride out tomorrow and do it.

The signs have been flipped to say "CLOSED." :)

[Buck]

Maybe something like snow fence should be used instead of just tape.

L8Rz
Buck

[Fast1]

Maybe something like snow fence should be used instead of just tape.

L8Rz
Buck

not a bad idea

[manual63]

']After the Saturday paved ride I stopped in at CRC and overheard a guy talking about how he had just ridden Wirth and had to hose the mud off his bike at a carwash.

I think I was pleasant and straightforward in explaining the situation to him, but it wasn't easy being civil. He seemed to understand, but I got the feeling his demeanor was just humoring me. Rebels do what they wanna. Damn the fallout and repercussions. Screw everyone else.

Grrr.

Yeah.....well I call them "Extremist Rebels" They can be just as bad as the "Extremist Conservatives" in my book! It's like they are so anti-establishment, they don't care what our cause is, even if it's a good one. Silly if you ask me.

[stoneage]

Maybe something like snow fence should be used instead of just tape.

L8Rz
Buck
That ain't gonna stop the jerks.

[stefan]

What if we spring for a big chain link fence, and let the MN zoo keep siberian tigers in there until the spring thaw is over?

[berrywise]

What if we spring for a big chain link fence, and let the MN zoo keep siberian tigers in there until the spring thaw is over?

Maybe just hire some of these sharp shooter they use for culling deer from over populated areas? That could be going to far though, I'll do some thinking on this.

[stefan]

Or change the tape used to stuff that's bright orange and says "Biohazard" or something.

[Buck]

That ain't gonna stop the jerks.

No it won't but it is certainly more of a barrier then a piece of tape. It's a simple way to make more a of stopper then caution tape.

L8Rz
Buck

[col200]

I agree. I see an orange fence as "closed for constuction" or something similar. I think it'd have more of an impact than the tape.

[Adam Hjelle]

Any thoughts on talking to the city to see if there is any chance of trespassing violations. Not that it would be real enforceable, but could get no trespassing signes and state there is a fine for violators. Since it is a city santioned trail there may be some hope.

[col200]

Good idea! Since it IS an official city trail now.

[chiquito]

Bottom line: We need to educate people and put clear signs.

[berrywise]

Bottom line: We need to educate people and put clear signs.

One thing I've always thought would be helpful out at Leb. The computer printed little notes that are taped to a tree are a start but after awhile people I think just don't see them or figure they are old signs.

[ostertoaster85]

I posted this a while ago, but I think I should post it again to keep up you spirits on the benefits of education.

I used to ride trails when they were really muddy. Mountain biking in the rain was a lot of fun. I didn't know better. Then I found out about morc and found out what I was doing to the trails. So I stopped riding when the trails are wet.

Thus, there are actually people that don't know better. If you continue to educate people, it works. It worked on me. It will work on other people. There will be people who are too stubborn to listen, but if you keep trying, it will help in the long run.

[soupboy]

Paint ball guns and deer-urine filled ammo. When they claim somebody shot them you can accuse them of getting "friendly" with the park's residents instead.

[Rocky Mountain]

The ORANGE PLASTIC fence worked at Lebanon Hills so why the resistance to put it a Theo. Buy the fence, pound some stakes and put it up. Gate the whole entrance + 5' on each side.

Obviously the plastic tape is not effective.

We as biker should not have to police the idiots who ride mud.

Maybe something like snow fence should be used instead of just tape.

L8Rz
Buck.
That ain't gonna stop the jerks.

[dopey048]

Land mines would work too.

[mara]

The park police do and will enforce all park rules, including trail closures. Unfortunately, they can't be there all the time. Neither can we.

Orange fencing would help. If you would be willing to help a MOCA trail boss put up fencing this Sunday, email me before five today with your timeframe to treasurer@morcmtb.org and I'll try to set something up.

In the meantime, polite rider education can do wonders. While it is not our job to educate, it is still in all of our best interests to do so.

[ppgc]

Can the park police give us some "Police Line, Do Not Cross" tape for across the snow fence? :)

[Tex]

I used to ride trails when they were really muddy. Mountain biking in the rain was a lot of fun. I didn't know better. Then I found out about morc and found out what I was doing to the trails. So I stopped riding when the trails are wet.

Thus, there are actually people that don't know better. If you continue to educate people, it works. It worked on me. It will work on other people. There will be people who are too stubborn to listen, but if you keep trying, it will help in the long run.

Just a couple of years ago, I was out on an early spring ride with a couple of my buddies. We were riding our mountain bikes on the Cedar Lake trail (the paved bike highway), just out to get in some miles. As we approached the Theo Wirth Parkway bridge one of the guys said "Hey let's go hit up the single track in Theo", myself and the other guys said no way it would ruin the trails. He then started in on this "you guys are pu$$ies and don't want to get your bikes dirty" rant. We both explained to him that we're both members of IMBA and MORC and all that. It was obvious that wasn't what he wanted to hear.
Anyhow, a long story short, we didn't ride the trails that day, and last year we brought him out to do trail maintenance on the new Theo trails. Needless to say, he's got a new appreciation for why we shouldn't ride in the mud.
Now, all we need to do is get everyone else out there to work on them

[mara]

Now, all we need to do is get everyone else out there to work on them

Amen to that!

Keeping people from riding muddy trails is one of my very few opportunities to be a good role model. It still feels ironic ;)

[Trevize1138]

Just a couple of years ago, I was out on an early spring ride with a couple of my buddies. We were riding our mountain bikes on the Cedar Lake trail (the paved bike highway), just out to get in some miles. As we approached the Theo Wirth Parkway bridge one of the guys said "Hey let's go hit up the single track in Theo", myself and the other guys said no way it would ruin the trails. He then started in on this "you guys are pu$$ies and don't want to get your bikes dirty" rant. We both explained to him that we're both members of IMBA and MORC and all that. It was obvious that wasn't what he wanted to hear.
Anyhow, a long story short, we didn't ride the trails that day, and last year we brought him out to do trail maintenance on the new Theo trails. Needless to say, he's got a new appreciation for why we shouldn't ride in the mud.
Now, all we need to do is get everyone else out there to work on them

That's precisely the mentality I believe the majority of trail poachers have for riding in the mud. They don't think at all about the damage they're doing to the trail. Instead, they think it just means getting your bike dirty. Therefore, the only reason someone would avoid riding in the mud is because they are afraid of getting their bike dirty.

"C'mon, that's what a mountain bike's for!"

I usually like to come back with "Yeah, that's what all beginner mountain bikers think." ;)

That's the biggest thought to change so that the lightbulb will go on in people's heads. Once they realize that it has nothing to do with dirt on the bike and everything to do with ruining the trail for everyone else they've "found religion."

Preach on, brother Tex!

[nowbrdr123]

Lets do it!:jumpy:

[mara]

The four main entrances will be fenced this Sunday. We should have all the bodies we need, but if you'd like to stop by and say "hi," we'll be meeting in the par three lot at ten.

This won't stop everyone. Some people just don't care. For the rest, I hope it shows them that these trails are legitimate and cared for and are officially closed.

Thanks to everyone who continues to spread the gospel.

[Pete Hamer]

I remember reading something on the Kenwood(I think) website that was pretty cool. It said something like, "In an effort to promote responsible trail riding we will not work on muddy bikes." We get people coming to the shop with muddy bikes looking for a tune up. I find it to be disrespectful to the employees that have to work on them as well as to the trail workers. We usually just give them "The Talk" but maybe I'll try to pass a policy about it at Penn. Maybe if all the shops do the same thing it could help send a strong message.

[stoneage]

The Vitch (John Coleman) put up a sign in the shop stating that he wouldn't wrk on muddy bikes. I thought it was really cool.

[Wheels]

Good banter everyone... Erik makes the best point, we have to educate our riding buddies one at a time, it takes a lot of retraining for many of us to understand the ramifications of our actions after so many years of just hammering at will no matter what the conditions.

It's supposed to rain later this week, so expect some delays yet on the opening.

Man, I'd love to be riding today...

[Trevize1138]

Saw yet another example this morning of the rule "most people honestly don't know any better and gladly oblige when educated." After helping with the organge fencing I was walking back to my car by the kiosk at 55 and Wirth Parkway and three guys on mountain bikes rode up to the trailhead.

They were looking at the signs and the orange fencing and appeared to be contemplating what to do. You know, turn around and go home or go around the fencing. I couldn't know for sure because I couldn't hear them, but to be safe I shouted out "It'll be at least another week, guys!"

Then I walked over to them and explained how the frost in the ground needs to come completely out and while it's there more moisture just seeps into the trail, making this time of year the most destructive for riding on the trail. They were all quite polite and said they didn't know that's why the trails were closed. Then they decided they should just ride back and did so.

So, another reason not to be afraid to educate people. Personally, I rarely encounter obstanant, unreasonable people. 90% or more are just like the three guys I talked to this morning.

[Crash]

but maybe I'll try to pass a policy about it at Penn. Maybe if all the shops do the same thing it could help send a strong message.

That would be cool! The more shops help educate, the better off we will all be.
thanks Pete.

Craig

[Trevize1138]

I'll be going through MAJOR MTB withdrawal tomorrow because it's going to be warm and sunny.

You know what that means: everybody's going to go through MTB withdrawal tomorrow and some won't know not to act on their natural urges when it comes to Theo.

So, tomorrow afternoon is going to be *the* time to be at Theo if you want to educate people and keep them off the trail. I'm going to plan on a ride out there over lunch and after work, in fact. Hmm ... pack a lawn chair and finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mainenance sitting at the entrance to the north loop? :)

[col200]

I'm glad you got to those guys Chris. As I was riding down the path towards 55, I saw that group of guys checking out the trailhead. I thought "Damn, here's a chance to educate these dudes" but low and behold, Chris emerged from the woods to do his duty!

[bigwheel]

At Leb, we also need some education. So, for the two groups of poachers we saw at Leb today:
1. DON'T GO THERE WHEN ALL OF THE PARK GATES ARE CLOSED AND LOCKED
2. DON'T TEAR DOWN ALL THE ORANGE FENCES AND RIDE OVER THEM TO GET ON THE TRAIL.
3. DON'T GIVE THE DIRT BOSSES A HARD TIME WHEN THEY ARE KICKING YOU OUT

Seems simple enough


Saw yet another example this morning of the rule "most people honestly don't know any better and gladly oblige when educated." After helping with the organge fencing I was walking back to my car by the kiosk at 55 and Wirth Parkway and three guys on mountain bikes rode up to the trailhead.

They were looking at the signs and the orange fencing and appeared to be contemplating what to do. You know, turn around and go home or go around the fencing. I couldn't know for sure because I couldn't hear them, but to be safe I shouted out "It'll be at least another week, guys!"

Then I walked over to them and explained how the frost in the ground needs to come completely out and while it's there more moisture just seeps into the trail, making this time of year the most destructive for riding on the trail. They were all quite polite and said they didn't know that's why the trails were closed. Then they decided they should just ride back and did so.

So, another reason not to be afraid to educate people. Personally, I rarely encounter obstanant, unreasonable people. 90% or more are just like the three guys I talked to this morning.

[seberly]

Here is what I think happens many times: it's a warm day, riding pops into the mind, plans are made, people set out to ride or drive to the trail only to find out it is closed - at that point they are so excited to ride it is REALLY hard not to.

Education is the answer.

Thanks to the trail elves for their work this past weekend - AWESOME!

[Trevize1138]

Here is what I think happens many times: it's a warm day, riding pops into the mind, plans are made, people set out to ride or drive to the trail only to find out it is closed - at that point they are so excited to ride it is REALLY hard not to.

Yep. It's like I said, it's just a natural feeling this time of year and some people don't know any better than to not act on those urges until the proper time and place.

It's springtime and young people with mountain bikes will start to notice dirt trails for the first time. These young people will also notice changes in themselves as they blossom into this season's mountain bikers. They see a fresh strip of dirt just lying there asking for it and can't wait to get in there and perhaps even get a little dirty.

But, remember kids, if you choose to mountain bike you're potentially taking on some great responsibilities that could change your life and the life of the trail forever! Be a true gentleman, and never ride a trail unless the trail gives its consent to be ridden.

Remember, there's nothing wrong or shameful about these feelings you're having. You just need to exercise responsibility. ;)

[TrailPatrol]

While it is not our job to educate, it is still in all of our best interests to do so.

Actually, Mara, it is our job to educate. As a volunteer bike patroller, the credo has always been educate, assist and inform. (Yeah, it's redundant, but oh, well.) As a park ranger, I would really prefer to teach someone why they shouldn't do something than write a ticket for the same thing. As a cyclist, I feel we have an obligation to other riders and the sport to lead (teach) by example.

But that's just my opinion.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[Trevize1138]

Actually, Mara, it is our job to educate. As a volunteer bike patroller, the credo has always been educate, assist and inform. (Yeah, it's redundant, but oh, well.)


Sorta like the 5 Ds of Dodgeball?

[soupboy]

That's why I always wear a full body condom when riding muddy trails.

Wrap It Up.:cool:

Yep. It's like I said, it's just a natural feeling this time of year and some people don't know any better than to not act on those urges until the proper time and place.

It's springtime and young people with mountain bikes will start to notice dirt trails for the first time. These young people will also notice changes in themselves as they blossom into this season's mountain bikers. They see a fresh strip of dirt just lying there asking for it and can't wait to get in there and perhaps even get a little dirty.

But, remember kids, if you choose to mountain bike you're potentially taking on some great responsibilities that could change your life and the life of the trail forever! Be a true gentleman, and never ride a trail unless the trail gives its consent to be ridden.

Remember, there's nothing wrong or shameful about these feelings you're having. You just need to exercise responsibility. ;)

[mara]

it is our job to educate. As a volunteer bike patroller, the credo has always been educate, assist and inform.

Alas, I am not ( yet ) a bike patroller. I'm just a rider who cares about trails.

I do think it is my personal job to educate people, build trails, and generally be the best trail fairy I can be. A lot of people just aren't there yet. If it were as easy as telling people "hey, you're a rider so now you must give a darn. . . " we'd be living in mountain bike utopia right now. I think most people will eventually see the light, but I'd prefer to set a good example than to try to make them feel like they're a bad person for not wanting to take that extra step yet.

Wow, who put that soapbox in here? Please, go back to your regularly scheduled imagining of Mr. Soupboy in a full body mud condom. . . :sick:

[Trevize1138]

If it were as easy as telling people "hey, you're a rider so now you must give a darn. . . " we'd be living in mountain bike utopia right now.

Not to don the rose-colored glasses here, but you mention the words "mountain bike utopia" as if it's a goal we're striving toward and not yet achieved. We are doing a group ride the beginning of June that involves 100 miles total and 30 or more of that is on dirt. IMBA-regulation dirt, in fact. A lot of us on here are close enough to some of these trails that we ride to them more often than drive. When the season does start I have to figure in an extra hour for my rides even if I go by myself because I'm bound to run into people I know on the trail and we'll be chatting up biking.

If we're not yet at mountain biking utopia, I don't know if I can take that much heaven! :crazy:

[mara]

If we're not yet at mountain biking utopia, I don't know if I can take that much heaven! :crazy:

Hey, I'm settling for nothing less than total world domination! Everybody cares, everybody contributes, and new riders look at veterans with amazement when we describe the nasty spring ruts of yesteryear.

[SPR]

Maybe various bike and bike related companies need to be educated as well. They seem to like advertising their product lines riding through the mud.

[Trevize1138]

Maybe various bike and bike related companies need to be educated as well. They seem to like advertising their product lines riding through the mud.

Yes, that's one big place that kids get the wrong idea. The media and hollywood know that mud riding sells. In addition to their healthy, natural impulses, kids today are constantly bombarded with mud-riding images and messages. They're told they aren't worth anything unless they ride in mud.

This is where parents need to step up to the plate. If only Murphy Brown hadn't had that child out of wedlock, too ...

[TrailPatrol]

It's time to break in those new mountain bike patrollers in their new uniforms! :fool:

http://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclub/Fiets/Switserland/MO93/162.jpg

Go git 'em, boys! (A little shock and awe should send them packing!:jumpy: )

Ride safe and secure,
:banana:
Hans

Note: All those bikes are on (or along) a paved road!

[Trevize1138]

Just got back from a little walk around Theo to inspect things. There are perhaps 3 new tire tracks that have been there since we put the fencing in and evidence of those tracks going around the fences. ARG!!!

I'm going back after 5 to walk the ski trail and watch for more poachers. Anybody else planning on making a trip to Theo this afternoon care to join me? :)

[Tetreves]

It's time to break in those new mountain bike patrollers in their new uniforms! :fool:


I like the assault rifles :D

[gopherhockey]

I hiked Leb today... the fences that Ted and Bob had put up yesterday were cut down again.

I don't think education is the issue there. I think thats someone who knows the trail is closed and is riding in spite of our efforts. No effort to just sneak around the fence but straight-out cutting it in half.

Sad really... wish we had enough people to be able to catch these individuals.

[ryno lite]

Yep, I think more than polite reeducation is needed for some of these idiots! Cutting a fence in half is plain old vandalism and tresspassing in my opinion. Kind of ticks a person off. It is so hard to keep people off during weather like this. Ughh!

[soupboy]

No effort to just sneak around the fence but straight-out cutting it in half.

They know what they're doing and are obviously trying to piss MORC off.

I vote for a caning followed by a ritual stoning in the parking lot. I get first and last smites/throws.

A$$hole(s).

[Wheels]

Just consider yourself enlightened for knowing why staying off the trails is healthy for them.

As I was explaining to someone today, if they dry out before it begins to rain the water will simply shed - allowing us to get on them earlier this year than we did last year (which for Theo was around May 1st).

Ride on them now any you won't allow the trails to harden evenly, leaving an impression that allows water to collect in the middle because they're soft. Leave a couple of deep ruts where it's still wet and you'll double the time it takes for the trail to dry, and cup the wet spot when it is dry, making it deeper than it's surroundings and collecting water all season.

We're not trail Nazis, we just have a better understanding of how the trails work, and we like to ride - not work on them, so we can be patient.

Just spread the gospel, eventually they'll start to get it one piece at a time and we'll have fewer problems.

Anger will get us nowhere (but it's always healthy to vent).

[El-Rock]

Hi-

I 'm new to this forum, but I ride Wirth all summer long and can't wait to get out there...

anyway, I ride by wirth everyday and I've seen some people out on the trials. I've stopped by the enterance and asked them politely to stay off the trails...

Anyway, my idea is to put the yellow tape/snow-fence at random pointes throughout the Wirth Trails...then if some loser wants to get out there and ruin the trails, the yellow-tape/snow-fences would ruin their runs....since they'd be stopped at random points throughout their run...

Just an idea...since it seems that having snow-fences and yellow-tape blocking just the enterances doesn't seem to work that well...

If you want someone to help put the tape/fences up...let me know I'll help whenever!!!

Erik:etard:

[rideharder]

i saw two freshly muddy bike on top of an suv while putting in docks this weekend and that got me thinking, if you want people to be aware that trails are closes and that harm that can be caused by riding on them send an article over to skinny ski for bruce to post on the main page. also you could send a pres release to the news stations and see if they want to do a story on the trails and getting them ready to open.

[gopherhockey]

Hi-

I 'm new to this forum, but I ride Wirth all summer long and can't wait to get out there...

Just an idea...since it seems that having snow-fences and yellow-tape blocking just the enterances doesn't seem to work that well...



Hi, and welcome to the forums!

We do this type of thing at Leb... snow fence at random points and also at as many entrance and exits that we can get. Last year we put up caution tape like crazy and spent a lot of time walking around repairing it, but I have to believe whomever was busting through wasn't haveing the best ride. There are certain points where one can place the tape that really screws a rider up.

I like to double or triple it up sometimes just in case they are trying to ride through it... makes for an interesting experience running into tripled-up caution tape I bet.

I've been trying to think of something more permanent that could be easily rigged up and put in place but haven't come up with much. If I wasn't worried about lawsuits and such it would be much easier to get creative and even evil... :fool: ;)

[col200]

This may be creating more work, but would draping downed trees/branches across various parts of the trail have an affect? Just like when you are closing paths, just not that extreme. Basically, the trail becomes unridable. I'd be willing to go down and move some trees/branches if it means a rideable trail come may.

[TrailPatrol]

If I wasn't worried about lawsuits and such it would be much easier to get creative and even evil... :fool: ;)

MORC needs patrollers for Leb. You could always re-up. :crazy2:

http://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclub/Fiets/Switserland/MO93/243.jpg

Or you could get one of the nifty new red jerseys. :cool: (and no assault rifle.)

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[bikeoutback]

I've been trying to think of something more permanent that could be easily rigged up and put in place but haven't come up with much. If I wasn't worried about lawsuits and such it would be much easier to get creative and even evil... :fool: ;)

If I recall correctly didn't the cross country ski trails have very large wooden baracades across the trail to keep bikers from entering those parts at crossings? What about something along those lines at various points on the trail to disrupt rides? I'm thinking create them in a natural wood that blends nicely with the woods in leb and place them directly around corners and on downhills really screw with the ride. What do you think, 1 every quarter mile?

[aliensporebomb]

I think the biggest problem is:

You've got a bunch of guys with spring fever and they're going to
ride if they can get away with it, especially if the trail isn't constantly
monitored.

Some of them are kids or other uninformed types who would
probably ride anyway and just not really care. They might
just gloss over the closed signs but fences - that's deliberate.

There's no immediate direct consequence to them unfortunately, it
may come later with trail closings or the like but it's more work for
everyone else.

I don't see an immediate answer to this that doesn't involve
constant surveillance and there's always going to be someone
who will break the rules sadly.

Has some of the other communities nationwide or other MTB
organizations have any discussions on how to handle this issue?

[Trevize1138]

I think the biggest problem is:

You've got a bunch of guys with spring fever and they're going to
ride if they can get away with it, especially if the trail isn't constantly
monitored.

Some of them are kids or other uninformed types who would
probably ride anyway and just not really care. They might
just gloss over the closed signs but fences - that's deliberate.

There's no immediate direct consequence to them unfortunately, it
may come later with trail closings or the like but it's more work for
everyone else.

I don't see an immediate answer to this that doesn't involve
constant surveillance and there's always going to be someone
who will break the rules sadly.

Has some of the other communities nationwide or other MTB
organizations have any discussions on how to handle this issue?

I guess that was my thought with this thread. All of us in the know who are out there riding on the road to get our legs back in preparation for trail riding may as well ride by Theo and even walk on in to the trail entrances. We can't watch it 24/7, but we can get enough people visiting the area frequently enough to at least catch some people and educate them.

We won't stop everyone, but we can keep trail poachers to a minimum. Over time more and more people will be educated as to why the trails need to be closed sometimes and this may not be as big of a problem ... maybe ... :cheesy:

[stefan]

Motion detecting surveillance cameras? Hook 'em up to some solar panels and a battery, or something. Then publicly shame offenders on a website!

[dopey048]

Motion detecting surveillance cameras? Hook 'em up to some solar panels and a battery, or something. Then publicly shame offenders on a website!

Good Idea. They have those things for deer at Gander Mountain. Motion sensor with camera built in. They are tree mountable and blend in. Atleast if you get a picture of them, then if you see them again on the trail you can take it to them.

[soupboy]

I like to double or triple it up sometimes just in case they are trying to ride through it... makes for an interesting experience running into tripled-up caution tape I bet.

Add a few runs of high test fishing line up to about bar height...

[col200]

no thought on temporarily blocking the path?

[El-Rock]

I Love the idea of motion cameras!

Does MORC have a budget for that?

[syntaxjunkie]

I Love the idea of motion cameras!

Does MORC have a budget for that?
When MORC has the budget for motion cameras, we'll also have the budget to hire a band of burly thugs, straight from the Altamont Academy of Concert Security, who can patrol the trails 24-7 to make sure no one's poaching them.

Me, I think land mines would be just as effective and a lot cheaper.

[Paul Swenson]

When MORC has the budget for motion cameras, we'll also have the budget to hire a band of burly thugs, straight from the Altamont Academy of Concert Security, who can patrol the trails 24-7 to make sure no one's poaching them.

Me, I think land mines would be just as effective and a lot cheaper.

These are less then $500.00. Think of how that flash would freak people out at night.:p

http://www.trailmac.com/index.php

[col200]

I think they'd be stolen often quickly

[syntaxjunkie]

That might stop them once. But a landmine would stop them forever. :banana:

[Tetreves]

These are less then $500.00

I'm with Charles on this one.

We could build home-made landmines for $10 each and give the remainder to the lawyers (that we would need).

[syntaxjunkie]

We could build home-made landmines for $10 each and give the remainder to the lawyers (that we would need).
The remainder of the money, or the landmines?

[Paul Swenson]

That might stop them once. But a landmine would stop them forever. :banana:

Landmines??

WWPDD

What Would Princess Di Do?

[Tetreves]

The remainder of the money, or the landmines?

Yes.





(post is too short).

[Tetreves]

The remainder of the money, or the landmines?

Or the remainder of the poachers. :laugh:

[TrailPatrol]

Back when I lived in the Adirondacks (NY), we were having a big problem with car break-ins at one of the major hiking trailheads into the High Peaks Wilderness, so the troopers (known locally as "the gods in gray") and rangers put a camera up to try and catch the bad guys. Of course...the camera was stolen too.

(They did catch the guys, but almost by accident, when a trooper coming up to check the lot doubled back on a hunch and caught them red handed in someone's car. When they went to the residence, there was the camera, with the NYSP ID sticker on it, in the middle of literally a garage full of camping, hiking and climbing gear.)

I also had one trashed at Sand Dunes a few years back. Looked like they tried to pry it out of the bracket and when that didn't work they put a axe into it.


So, it's not my turf, but I would not reccomend investing in a camera.

Ride safe,
:banana:
Hans

[Wheels]

That's funny Hans!

So, now back to reality all you vigilantes with cameras and such...

The MOCA meeting is tonight, we may be posting the trail opening very soon - so hang tight - the Trail Steward may have good news for everyone.

[JayPee]

These are less then $500.00. Think of how that flash would freak people out at night.:p

Infared, my friend. Set it up with a light-sensitive switch so that during low-light conditions, an array of LED emitters illuminates the area with infared. Most cheap digicams can see infared perfectly, yet the poachers wouldn't detect a thing.

Hell, build up a solar powered system wired into a cheap linux-based embedded computer and some sort of wireless internet access and update the imagery of the offenders in real time!


Meh.. to hell with it.. just explode 'em with mines.

[Trevize1138]

Infared, my friend. Set it up with a light-sensitive switch so that during low-light conditions, an array of LED emitters illuminates the area with infared. Most cheap digicams can see infared perfectly, yet the poachers wouldn't detect a thing.

Hell, build up a solar powered system wired into a cheap linux-based embedded computer and some sort of wireless internet access and update the imagery of the offenders in real time!


Meh.. to hell with it.. just explode 'em with mines.

Man, this post is a reminder of just how TENSE everyone was last week just before the trail was opened! :) Thursday on the forums it was like seeing a bunch of junkies who finally got their fix.

Happy riding season, everyone :banana:

[bigwheel]

You don't need a camera. Just the flash. Put it half way into the qualifier or the skinny, and line it up so it really illuminates the perpetrator face.

Of course it might be nice to get a picture shortly after the flash goes off.