That Time of year?

[halls]

:crazy2: Here we go again. On my commute to work last friday I had a pickup truck take exception to my riding on the shoulder . He drove down inside the white line just missing me and continued on giving me the ole one finger salute as he left. So get ready and be careful because the weird drivers are out there!

[manual63]

Yeah...and I will get to start blogging here again soon.

Green Ford Escorts (http://greenfordescorts.blogspot.com/)

Let the fun begin....:)

[halls]

I will add it to the ever growing list!:jumpy:

[stefan]

Is there a way to hold these people accountable for their actions? I mean, swerving towards someone in your car/truck/suv, over a white line, could be construed as attempted assault with a deadly weapon, couldn't it?

Maybe commuters should start snapping photos of drivers and the plates, maybe an action shot of what they are doing? It's pretty sad that so many people get away with being so dangerous.

[SpecHR55]

Yeah...and I will get to start blogging here again soon.

Green Ford Escorts (http://greenfordescorts.blogspot.com/)

Let the fun begin....:)

Haha wow. A website devoted to bad drivers that is pretty awesome. Also like the name. So iI guess i have to share my bike/car story.

Again, like on his page, a white Silverado in Wayzata was passing me when i was riding on the sidewalk. I was coming up to a driveway to a store and the silverado was practially already past the driveway and he nails his brakes and then accelerates into the driveway, right in front of me, my tire actually hit his tire almost causing me to fall. So of course he stops gives me the finger, honks, then peels out into a parking space 10ft. away. He thinks he got me, WRONG!!! When he went inside to the store i stood in back of the truck so he could see me and i pretended to call the coppers. So he ran out and started yelling at me that it was my fault. I just smiled and rode away then gave him the Hawaiin salute.:)

Pshh, stupid white Silverados.

[Trevize1138]

It's worse in the spring for numerous reasons. Some people just aren't used to sharing the road with bikes so soon after winter. But, the biggest factor is just spring bringing out everyone's inner a-hole.

I know I'll face FCC fines for this theory, but maybe it goes back to evolution and how we used to compete for mating rights this time of year? Spring just makes us naturally more aggressive and competitive.

[halls]

The officers I've talked to ,have told me they can put it on file if you have a Lic. plate #. But a ticket can't be issued without another witness. Soooooo I think a helmet cam would be very handy.

[stefan]

Probably is just another good reason for everyone to push for more sanctioned biker lanes on roads.

[Aaroneous]

I've got to get a handle on my own personal road rage.
Since I've started commuting daily last summer, I've gotten harassed on the road at least once a week.
I just can't hold back sometimes. If you're gonna be a dick to someone you don't know just because they're riding a bike on the road, I'm gonna tell (and show) you exactly how I feel about it.

If anyone ever hits me, they'd better kill me.

And Chris, you're totally right.

[Tegra54]

I have definitely been harassed on my bike in the past (have been involved in 2 accidents, neither of which were my fault, but by motorists not realizing there was a bike in front of them)....but on the same hand I have witnessed plenty of cyclists who think the rules of the road do not apply to them (ie not stopping at stop signs, not signaling their turns, failing to heed the right of way)

I have definitely seen cyclists who think it is their duty to ride in the middle of the road because they belong there and all the cars should bow down to them. i think it is this type of cocky behavior the partial cause of the abuse responsible cyclists receive from motorists.

long story short: if you ride on the road remember to obey the laws and be respectful of others who are using the road....both if you are on a bike or in a car

[Tex]

It's not just something that happens in the Spring, it's always an issue. Here's another online resource for people.

http://www.velovengeance.com/

[col200]

Recently, I had a driver "test" to see if I'd stop at a sign on some sideroad near my place. We basically arrived at the intersection at the same time. We made eye contact for a few second and he was stopped. Assuming he knew I was just going to continue through since he was stopped, I went through. As I was halfway, he gunned it, as if he was "pretending" to not see me or that he was confused about the situation. This whole time we had eye contact. I gave him the salute and that pushed him overboard. He shook his head, threw it in reverse and I sprinted out of there. I was ALMOST to lake street when I heard his car redlining behind me. I hopped up on the curb to avoid collision while his car swerved around me jumped up onto the curb. I switched directions and tried to ride the opposite way...trying to just ditch this guy. He swung around and cut me off. Causing me to slam on the brakes and stumble to gain balance. He got out of his car with the worst "stink face" i've ever seen. I got ready for him to pumble me but instead he must not hve realized I was 6'2" and he was ~5'4" because he softly said "you MUST follow the laws of the road". It looked as if I pushed him over the "crazy" edge cause he was almost in tears. yikes! I explained, politely, that it's against the law to try to run somebody down on a bike. As he got in his car, he kept his stink face locked onto me. I whipped out the phone and called the cops. Read his license plate and went home. Once I started calling, his face blew up and he did him best to get the hell out of there. moral of the story, nothing shows drivers like a phone call to the cops....but make sure they see you do it! :D

[FarmerBEN]

cyclists probably weigh around 200 pounds, I would guess many cars weigh 2000. When in doubt I think the car has the right of weigh even if they don't have the right of way. Never assume anyone sees you or knows what you are planning on doing.

[mara]

I come to a complete stop at stop signs, signal my turns, and am annoyingly law abiding on my commute. It doesn't stop people from trying to kill me, or threatening me, or throwing things at my face, but it does let the less-stupid people out there know that I am a legal road user and should be treated as such. I hate it when cars run stop signs or turn without signaling; that's why I don't do it when I am on my bike.

[fasterfoster]

It's not just something that happens in the Spring, it's always an issue. Here's another online resource for people.

http://www.velovengeance.com/
Excellent resource...
...and regarding the previous post regarding help from police, I've had VERY little luck even when they've been provided with plenty of evidence.

[hockeynut]

moral of the story, nothing shows drivers like a phone call to the cops....but make sure they see you do it! :D
Funny.... after I read it my moral would be to obey all traffic laws while riding in traffic (no matter how light), you don't know how mental the chumps behind the wheel are.

[col200]

I agree. If the car had been stopped at the sign before I arrived, I would have stopped. In this case, we met at the same time and made complete eye contact as I went through. I guess my post made it sound like I booked through the intersection as he was turning. Not the case at all. My REAL point was that people are crazy and no matter what a biker does/says, trying to run them down with a car is not ok. And the cops usually don't do anything, but if the person in the car thinks the cops might, that's the only thing to do to teach them a lesson.

[FarmerBEN]

I agree. If the car had been stopped at the sign before I arrived, I would have stopped. In this case, we met at the same time and made complete eye contact as I went through. I guess my post made it sound like I booked through the intersection as he was turning. Not the case at all. My REAL point was that people are crazy and no matter what a biker does/says, trying to run them down with a car is not ok. And the cops usually don't do anything, but if the person in the car thinks the cops might, that's the only thing to do to teach them a lesson.

agreed, my point was merely that no matter who was right or wrong there is no debate about who is dead when something of this nature happens. So every one be extra aware out there.

[Rocky Mountain]

Here is a good way to report bad drivers and is probably safer and more effective than letting them know what you think.

https://www.dps.state.mn.us/patrol/unsafe/report.htm

This is a little story showing that the reports are being used to notify the unsafe drivers.
http://www.mtn.org/tcbc/tips/bt-report_unsafe_driving.html

Ride the roads and don't bother with the sidewalks where the bmx dudes like to ride.

[Tex]

I work right near the intersection of Highway 100 and highway 7, in St. Louis Park. There is a bike/walk path is right behind my building (pretty sweet). Last night when I left the office a car must have hit a pedestrian or a biker that was trying to cross Belt Line Blvd. There were several police cars blocking traffic in both directions, and an ambulance carted the injured person off. A bunch of people from my office saw all the action, but no one knows what happened. I can assure you it had something to do with someone not understanding the rights of a crosswalk, as the injured person was crossing on the crosswalk.

[Don Youngdahl]

I've got to get a handle on my own personal road rage.


There is a way to safely express that road rage. When the offending car is out of earshot, scream out at the car with the loudest, foulest obscenity that your sense of decorum will allow. You'll feel better, and the worst that might happen is that you'll offend a bystander or fellow cyclist with tender ears.

Don Youngdahl

[stefan]

Yeah, I live a mile from there and I had to drive for about an extra 25 minutes in traffic to bypass that accident. (Should have ridden the bike!) Almost EVERY day, I see someone on a bike blow through that intersection and nearly cause an accident, or I see a car blow through it and almost hit someone. They really need a walkbridge or crossing lights, because that's a hell of a busy place for people to cross.

There are also some signs now that tell trail users that they must stop for traffic. So what's the deal there? If vehicles aren't being told to watch out for people crossing there, I can forsee plenty more accidents to come.

[gordanfreeman]

while obeying traffic laws is all good and nice, like some have said it doesn't necessarily do anything. until i start getting treated with the respect i lawfully deserve on the road, i dont plan on obeying every law myself. i have been yelled at, cut off and hit by drivers and even buzzed by a police car while riding in a bike lane (you would hope the people charged with keeping me safe would at least give me my three feet :fool:)

until drivers start obeying the laws regarding me, i don't plan on following every law myself. bad example, i know, but thats just how i work.

[Kingbozo]

I work right near the intersection of Highway 100 and highway 7, in St. Louis Park. There is a bike/walk path is right behind my building (pretty sweet). Last night when I left the office a car must have hit a pedestrian or a biker that was trying to cross Belt Line Blvd. There were several police cars blocking traffic in both directions, and an ambulance carted the injured person off. A bunch of people from my office saw all the action, but no one knows what happened. I can assure you it had something to do with someone not understanding the rights of a crosswalk, as the injured person was crossing on the crosswalk.

What surprises me when riding those paths is how many cars stop and wave you through. That may have caused the accident. Car in closest lane stops. Biker goes. Gets tagged by car in next lane that doesn't stop.

[Konaboy]

What surprises me when riding those paths is how many cars stop and wave you through. That may have caused the accident. Car in closest lane stops. Biker goes. Gets tagged by car in next lane that doesn't stop.

I've seen that exact thing happen, thankfully minus the rider getting tagged by a car. One person will stop, but the person in the next lane either doesn't know what's going on or isn't paying attention and blows right through.

That trail crossing is pretty ugly during rush hour. The traffic doesn't get broken up enough for people to cross safely due to cars being able to make right turns onto it from 7 and 36. At the very least those turns should be no turn on red during rush hour times versus the yield only that they are now.

I crossed there once during rush hour and vowed to never again.

[manual63]

What surprises me when riding those paths is how many cars stop and wave you through.
The reason why this happens is because cars don't expect bikers to stop or follow the laws, yes I have been guilty in the past. Now I stop and follow the rules when riding in the road (thanks to mara laying down the logic to me about it) and I think if a cyclist is riding in the road, they should not be running lights and stop signs. It's contradictory to get mad at a car running a light/stop sign, if you are going to do it on your bicycle. Paths are the same, if you are crossing a road, you should yeild to traffic, unless otherwise stated.

What I hate most is when I come up to a stop sign and a car that's been sitting there at the sign, and sometimes no sign, doesn't go. I stop and they keep waiting, and sometimes waving me through. I would rather them treat me like a car and just go since it is their turn to do so.

[transplant]

Shad makes good points. I always let the car go first if it arrives at the light, sign, etc. first. Basic Rules of the Road stuff. I think a large part of drivers though don't recognize a track stand as a complete stop for a cyclist. No foot down = no stop. I try to drop one just so they get the idea that, yeah, I AM stopping and they have to go. It's a PITA to unclip, dab and re-clip, throws the whole flow off. But it's a clear sign.

The kicker is some get mad that you let them go first, like they're doing you a huge favor and you're tossing it in their face.

The cars that stop and wait for you can just cause problems and congestion.

[manual63]

The cars that stop and wait for you can just cause problems and congestion.

Yep. I know many are just being polite, but it annoys me when they do that.

[Tex]

Shad makes good points. I always let the car go first if it arrives at the light, sign, etc. first. Basic Rules of the Road stuff.

I agree for stoplights, but when crossing the raod on a crosswalk it's a different situation. The rider should come to a complete stop before entering the crosswalk, and then proceeed through when safe to do so. That being said, the instant my front tire hits the white paint on the crosswalk, all crossing traffic must yeild to my right of way. Just don't be stupid about it.

[Trevize1138]

What surprises me when riding those paths is how many cars stop and wave you through. That may have caused the accident. Car in closest lane stops. Biker goes. Gets tagged by car in next lane that doesn't stop.

I HATE that! I know of a kid who got killed because someone stopped and waved him by, thinking they were being nice. The kid was on foot, too. Died at 6.

Every time I see someone try to do that for me, I just put my head down and almost angrily wave them to keep moving. People who do that have no idea how dangerous they're being, and it's made worse because they think they're being nice.

[TrailPatrol]

You know, I teach driver skills to special-needs transport drivers when I am not working for the DNR, and I always tell my clients two things to remember: "Everybody else on the road is an idiot." and "Always expect the worst out of other drivers and they won't disappoint you." I can honestly say I am never disappointed.

I see a lot of the cars stopping for bikes on the Luce Line Trail at Willow and at the road before it. (Can't remember right now.) I have also been just about k-o'd by the bozo who goes around the car stopped to let me cross the road. I think some people think those "Trail X-ing" signs mean "yield to trail users". Unfortunately, the ones who don't think that are the ones who will mow you down! (They are also right, in this instance.)

Ride safe,

:banana:
Hans

[manual63]

I HATE that! I know of a kid who got killed because someone stopped and waved him by, thinking they were being nice. The kid was on foot, too. Died at 6.

I think now, if you wave someone to go and something happens to them, you can be liable for what happens. Basically, by waving someone to go ahead, you are telling the other person, especially a kid, that the coast is clear. So it's a good idea never to wave someone to go unless it's your job to do so. You can pause, wait or whatever, but let the other person decide for themselves to go. If you see that it's not clear, you might want to warn them though....funny...huh...:)

[Kingbozo]

Long but relevent.


Legally Speaking - with Bob Mionske: To impede or not to impede, that is the question
By Robert Mionske, JD
This report filed April 20, 2006
Dear Bob:
I have the good fortune to live in Southern Minnesota where the roads are in good condition, and relatively free of traffic. Our club rides are always quite enjoyable and take us on some very pleasant routes through local farmland. Most of the roads we ride on have very minimal traffic, to the point where a car goes past us (in either direction) often only once every 10 or 15 minutes. In general, most motorists are quite considerate, but as always there are a few who feel that bicyclists simply do not belong on the roads.
Minnesota law states that bicyclists are allowed to ride two abreast, as long as we stay to the right side of the road, and do not occupy more than one lane. Another provision is that we do not "impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic." Those motorists who do get angry that bicycles are on the road often tell us that we are not allowed to impede traffic, and this often seems to be the major basis for their complaints. This occurs even when there is no other traffic on the road, and the car may only have to slow for a few seconds until safe to pass us. So my question for you is from a legal standpoint, what exactly constitutes "impeding the normal and reasonable flow of traffic?"
Of interest, these same motorists never seem to get upset when they end up behind some large piece of farm equipment driving down the road at a pace much slower than bicycles.
Thanks
T. M.
Minnesota
Dear T.M.,
Don't you hate it when your ride on the beautiful roads in southern Minnesota, and some motorist who has no problem waiting behind some slow-moving farm vehicle, comes up behind you and starts quoting the Minnesota Traffic Regulations chapter and verse to prove that you are violating the law?...So are you? I love questions like this, because the answer is easy, and it's the right outcome:
You are not impeding traffic, and therefore, you are not violating the law by riding in the right lane. Let's find out why.
Let's start with some basics. First, in Minnesota, Section 169.01(2) of the Traffic Regulations defines a "vehicle" as

Every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.Now that's a pretty inclusive definition of vehicle, and includes farm tractors, trailers, and yes, bicycles. So what rights do bicycles have on Minnesota roads? According to Section 169.222(1) of the Traffic Regulations, "all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle..." However, as you've mentioned, Section 169.222(4) of the Minnesota Traffic Regulations also requires that "Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:
When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions, including fixed or moving objects, vehicles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or narrow width lanes, that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge.
Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway or shoulder shall not ride more than two abreast and shall not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and, on a laned roadway, shall ride within a single lane.There are a few interesting observations to be made about the language of this statute. First, the statute requires you to ride "as close as practicable" to the right. This is standard statutory language across the United States, and merely means that you have to ride as close to the right as is feasible under the conditions. It is not a commandment to ride as close to the right as possible to the right under all conditions. In fact, the legislature suggests several conditions under which a cyclist would be justified in not riding to the right. Second, did you notice that there's no requirement in the statute for a cyclist to ride anywhere other than the road? The statute anticipates that cyclists will be riding "upon a roadway or shoulder," and that on laned roadways, cyclists can only occupy one lane. This language indicates that the legislature intends that bicycles will be riding on the road.
Third, did you notice the words "normal and reasonable?" What is the "normal and reasonable" movement of traffic? And, as you asked, what constitutes impeding "the normal and reasonable movement of traffic"? For an answer, let's ride over to Ohio.
In 1999, Steven Selz, a cyclist, was cited for "impeding traffic" in Trotwood, Ohio (see You gotta fight for your right to slooooow down (http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/5496.0.html)). At trial, the cyclist's attorney focused on establishing the following points:

The cyclist was riding at a reasonably normal bicycling speed;
There was no posted minimum speed limit; and
The established maximum speed limit was not only an unreasonable speed for a bicycle, it was an unsafe speed for a bicycle.This part of the cyclist's case focused on the "reasonable movement of traffic"-the bicycle was traveling at a reasonable speed. But is it reasonable for a bicycle to travel at a reasonable speed if other traffic on the road is capable of moving at a faster speed? According to his attorney, Steve Magas...well, I'll let him tell it in his own words: I argued that the most important word in the Trotwood ordinance was the word "traffic." "Traffic" cannot be impeded, so just what is "traffic." State law tells us that traffic includes far more than cars and trucks and buses. "Traffic" is defined to include "...pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, vehicles, streetcars, trackless trolleys, and other devices either singly or together while using any highway for purposes of traveling." Thus a bicycle operator IS traffic -- the bicycle operator is part of the class of people protected by the statute. "Traffic" is a broad piece of fabric, with many different threads. Not all "traffic" goes, or is capable of going, 45mph. By including these slower moving objects in the definition of "traffic" the legislature is allowing for varying speeds of vehicles on the roadways. If something is going as fast as it can on a roadway on which it has a right to proceed, how can it be "impeding" traffic?
As he notes in his account, the trial court didn't buy that argument, and Selz didn't get the yellow jersey. However, Selz wasn't quite ready to quit just yet, so he advanced to the next stage-The Ohio Court of Appeals. There, the Justices agreed with Selz that the ordinance cannot reasonably be read as prohibiting bicycles from using a public highway. In this regard, the case before us is similar to Lott v. Smith...That court held that an operator of a corn combine could not be found to have violated the statute...The corn combine was traveling at or near its highest possible speed...The facts in the case before us are virtually identical, except that a bicycle is substituted for the corn combine. In both cases the vehicle was being operated at, or close to, the highest possible speed. In either case, holding the operator to have violated the slow speed statute would be tantamount to excluding operators of these vehicles from the public roadways, something that each legislative authority has not clearly expressed an intention to do. Based on that analysis, the Ohio court held in Trotwood v. Selz that a bicyclist is not in violation of the ordinance when he is traveling as fast as he reasonably can. Now let's ride back to Minnesota. As we saw in Ohio, the statutes are virtually identical. In fact, let's look at Minnesota's definition of "traffic"; under Section 169.01(44) of the Minnesota Traffic Regulations "Traffic" means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, vehicles, street cars, and other conveyances, either singly or together, while using any highway for purposes of travel. Almost exactly what Ohio's code says. Now, the appellate decision in Trotwood v. Selz wasn't explicitly based on that definition, but let's look again at an interesting point Selz' attorney raised at trial: a bicycle operator IS traffic -- the bicycle operator is part of the class of people protected by the statute. "Traffic" is a broad piece of fabric, with many different threads. Not all "traffic" goes, or is capable of going, 45mph. By including these slower moving objects in the definition of "traffic" the legislature is allowing for varying speeds of vehicles on the roadways. If something is going as fast as it can on a roadway on which it has a right to proceed, how can it be "impeding" traffic?
That's basically what the Ohio Court of Appeals said. Keep in mind that the holding in Ohio isn't binding authority upon courts in Minnesota; however, it is persuasive authority, which makes it extremely likely that any case of a similar nature in Minnesota would be decided the same way. Now, what I've really done is tell you what doesn't constitute impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, but that's really all the courts have told us, and as long as you're riding within what the law allows, you won't run the risk of impeding traffic. What do you think? Is it time for a ride?
Good luck,
Bob
(Research and drafting provided by Rick Bernardi-law student- Lewis and Clark)
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9772.0.html

[FarmerBEN]

I am rather happy with all those motorists that slow down behind farm machinery,

[transplant]

Everyone should print out a few copies of Sean's posting to pass out to the irate motorists they encounter.