Safe Trails?

[gopherhockey]

This site from Dennis Porter:http://www.safetrails.net/index.asp The site is a hikers perspective outlining everything from the psychology of a mountain biker to ways to remove bikers from public trails.

[gopherhockey]

This is really sad. I filled out the incident form though. 2 nights ago at Lebanon on our biking only trail, I ran into 2 very large dogs unleashed and their owner taking a walk. The dogs circled me and when I tried to pass peacefully they ran along side me. I tried to speak nicely with the owner, who attempted to get his dogs to stop, but they persisted. Finally they turned off, but not until I had already fallen on one log pile. (luckily no injury)

Had I hit him or one of his unleashed dogs on a bikers only trail, he probably would be filling out an incident report himself.

I wonder if they will appreciate the report...

It is sad we have stupid bikers - I have seen way more than I'd like to admit... But sites like this almost seem like they think they are without fault and the only answer is to ban bikers.

Maybe if they knew how well trail sharing could work in places like Lebanon they would think differently?

I guess ranting or joking with them probably doesn't help..

[gopherhockey]

"safetrails" reply to a message I sent them on our WORKING method of trail sharing:

The local organization is an IMBA affiliate and the leader is a local IMBA representative. They continually say "we're not mountain bikers, we're trail users" while at the same time refusing to consider anything other than full access to all trails and denying any allegations of damage to the trails. We have connections with professional geologists and botanists who will detail the damage caused by our local riders over the next few months. The damage is abundantly clear to anyone who simply looks at the trails with an analytical eye. It was the stonewalling of the bikers and the forest service who drove us to this. We all have things we'd rather be doing, but being stonewalled over and over tends to get under ones skin. The IMBA site pretends to include all trail users and even says something about closing trails which are too crowded, steep, etc, but when challenged our local rep couldn't come up with an example of IMBA ever willingly supporting closing a trail to bikes.

We are receiving hundreds of emails from people in Canada, New York and England who have no idea about our local concerns. We have yet to receive one email from Santa Barbara bikers. What does this say about our local bikers?

[gopherhockey]

From http://www.wheeled-locusts.org/

You are a wheeled locust if you:

1. Have little respect for the park rules and regulations regarding where you can ride.

2. Care little about the environmental impact of illegal trail riding.

3. Think all trails in public parks should be mountain bike trails and ride accordingly, despite the law.

4. State publicly that all trails should be open to mountain bikes or closed to all users.

5. Do not believe in the concept of separate trails for hikers and bikers.

5. Do not obey laws established to provide different trails for these different users.

6. Insist that all trail erosion can be repaired but are unable to provide method or money to do so.

7. Brag about your illegal riding exploits on the world wide web.

8. Are a bike club that sends out an "invitation" to winter ride in November, at a time when frost heaves are a serious problem and there is little snow, and 700 mountain biker members show up.

9. Insist that a "study" done in New Zealand seven years ago by a mountain biker grad student for his doctoral dissertation is scientific "proof" that mountain bikes are no more damaging than a person on foot, this despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the fact that New Zealand still prohibits mountain bikes from all national and state parks, and half of all parks in Wellington, New Zealand's mountain bike capital.

10. Create a website that insists that riders are "forced" to break the law in the Middlesex Fells, as if they had no choice.

11. Create entirely new mountain bike paths where no path existed before.

12. Freeride totally off trail, down a hillside on a full suspension bike.

13. Use public parks to train for mountain bike racing.

14. Go out illegally in a group at night with quartz halogen head lanterns.

16. Call those who disapprove of your illegal activities extremists or ecoterrorists.

17. Think that quiet nature study should be the exception rather than the rule in public parks.

18. Think that a heavily eroded trail is a good trail, because it offers more of a challenge.

19. View a park as an obstacle course, a track, a place to improve your riding skills with ever more daring levels of challenge.

20. Claim that you have a legal right to mountain bike, despite a federal court decision saying otherwise. [not sure where this one is coming from?]

21. View wetlands and a challenging place to ride because of the mud.

22. Ride in the rain and when trails are muddy and feel good about the fun you had as you scrape the dirt from your tires, wheels and bike frame, never thinking for a moment about the environmental impact.

23. Insist that mountain biking is a sustainable activity in a park where erosion continues to get worse each and every year. [I assume they mean on improperly built trails..]

24. Are unable to consider the future consequence of your destructive illegal activities 25, 50 or 100 years from now.

25. Deny that any of the above items is a problem.

Most people I know could pass this test... could you?

[gopherhockey]

I too didn't quite know what they meant by the headlamp thing. I think they were probably referring to the many night bikers who ignore trail signs or bike in illegal areas because they think they can get away with it in the dark... not legitimate biking in a place like Lebanon (before 10pm, of course) ;)

I too wonder what ever would happen if someone hit a hiker on one of the biker only trails. Twice now during night biking I have come very close. It is like the hikers are there not wearing reflective material out walking their dogs and some don't even have a flashlight...

Did I miss the sign that says "bikers only except for at night where its a free-for-all so please have your dogs take a dump on the trail, thank you very much..."

Tim, did you post that sign? hehe

[syntaxjunkie]

On the one hand, I guess we should heave a collective sigh of relief that trail access in the twin cities metro area hasn't reached the level of rancor that it obviously has out west. On the other hand, I'm a little disturbed by the apparent lack of middle ground conceded by people--likely on both sides of the issue. At the risk of of sounding a bit pollyanna-can't-we-all-just-get- along-ish, well, can't we?

Perhaps part of the problem--here as in politics--is that the only voices that garner attention are those on the fringe. We only hear about the rabid bikers running down innocent children and small dogs, or the rabid hikers setting razorwire traps to mangle hapless pedalheads.

All of this is a roundabout way of saying that, as a MORC member, I'd be interested in participating in some kind of dialogue with other trail users, outside of the charged atmospehere of a debate over a specific trail. Basically, meet on neutral turf, set aside the polarizing rhetoric and talk about what we can all do better. It'll probably come down to so much preaching to the proverbial choir. But it seems like it'd be worth a shot.

Thoughts?

[gopherhockey]

I totally agree with you - it seems like both extremes are the ones that get heard or noticed the most. I actually think in places such as Lebanon that hikers and bikers, for the most part, are getting along - probably due to good signage and trail routing and less trail sharing.

I'm sure Dakota has heard from the hikers on occasion though - they probably don't pass that along to anyone, but all it would take is one or two hiker comments to tarnish some of the good work that MORC does there (and in other areas). Even worse, people hiking at the river bottoms probably cause more of a problem.

I am not at all sure how much of an issue this is in the cities - perhaps someone else knows? If it is an issue or not, maybe it would be good to do as you said and get something going between the hikers and bikers. Maybe we hold more trail sessions with both in mind? Maybe someone has some good thoughts on this. Trouble is it would probably attract the kind of people who are already failrly neutral... ?

I sure would hate to see any kind of anti-biker web sites popping up in our area though...

[syntaxjunkie]

I think your idea of shared trail sessions may be at least part of the answer. Fundamentally, bikers and hikers have a fair amount in common. Our primary difference—and the source of the controversy in the first place—is our means of enjoying our sport.

A joint trail maintenance day bringing together bikers and hikers (maybe under auspices of a mutually interested/involved partner, such as REI) could go a long way toward creating some mutual respect, understanding and tolerance in all directions. At minimum, people would walk away from the experience knowing that most bikers aren't wilderness-ravaging cossacks hell-bent of defiling the planet, and most hikers aren't cranky cycle-phobes who set hideous biker-targeted traps to keep their favorite trails to themselves.

The reason that I bring up REI is particular is that the involvemewnt of a larger commercial group might make it easier to attract media attention to such an event. In a world in which perception is reality, it'd be a great opportunity for the non-extremist members of both groups to get some air time.

And to your point about attracting people who are already neutral, I think that's the big idea. It's safe to say that there are people on both ends of the debate who will be happy with nothing less than the total exclusion of the other group. But it's my guess that they are in the minority. If the majority of people beleive that bikers and hikers can coexist—and if they act on it—then trail access might just become a less contentious issue.

[pwpatton]

I've never seen a mountain biker be rude to a hiker on a trail although I'm sure it's happened. People can be rude and inconsiderate doing just about anything, biking and hiking included. But my experience has been that hikers that do get upset w/bikers have been extremely rude and one even attempted to stop me by grabbing my handlebars. I'm not sure what she thought she was doing but I was shocked at the "police the trail" mentality she had. This was many years ago when "sanctioned" trails we're scarce and I haven't seen anything like that since. Some hikers I come across may seem a bit nervous at worst so I make sure to say "Hello" and "How are you today" to put them at ease and show that bikers are "good folk".

I think what doesn't help however is the kind of hyperbole seen from these fringe anti-biker groups. Just look at their domain name "wheeled-locusts.com". I'm sure that kind of rhetoric is going to get bikers to the table and I'm sure that kind of mentality is an indication that these hikers are willing to compromise... yea right.

This is a standard problem with just about any conflict. I'm good, your bad. As long as one group holds that a belief against another they will not be able to see the other groups point of view.

I think it's a great idea to get together with the "reasonable" hikers and show that reasonable groups with different interested can share a piece of land peacefully. Although I don't think the media would be interested in anything so civil.

[Trevize1138]

What a f*%&$$!!-up site!

Talk about your fear-mongering. I especially love the page that details the $5000 downhill bike and the body armor worn for downhill riding, suggesting all mountain bikers are servents of Lord Humongus*. :laugh:

In reference to that bike, this is my *favorite* line on the site:

"On the internet you can buy this $5000 bike at the click of a button and shipping. And prices are coming down. "

Oh my GOD!!! The evil Bike of the Apocalypse is coming down in price! Soon anyone can have one!! Run for the hills, martha! ... but, watch for bikers coming down ...



* geeky, obscure Road Warrior reference

[manual63]

People like these people who created this hiker site just got beat up and teased as kids. Now they have a web site and can boast about their personal problems. Well, good for them!

I show respect for all hikers who show respect in return. There are plenty who look at their feet when they walk and how they don't hear me coming, I don't know. Maybe they need to take off the headphones. Oh, and the no dog on a leash thing drives me nuts.

Basically, it's a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than to complain about poeple they are jealous of. No matter where you go in this world, there is something you can complain about, like SUVs for example.....:p.

[TrailPatrol]

Originally posted by pwpatton
I've never seen a mountain biker be rude to a hiker on a trail although I'm sure it's happened.

Back in the mid-'80s, when the sport was young and I was a hiker :shocked: my wife, our dogs and I were hiking on the North-Country National Scenic Trail in my native NY. The dogs were search and rescue trained, and therefore were not normally leashed in the woods, but were wearing their orange "shabrachs" (vests) as we hiked. Three guys on mountain bikes came roaring down the hill at us, yelling "Coming through!, Look out! Get your damn dog!" They didn't slow down, they didn't stop, and they crossed the road...onto our property. (We had given an easment to the trail) So I just waited for them, and when they came back through I was standing in the middle of an uphill trail, with my German Shepherd at my heel. When they yelled at me to get out of the way, I didn't. It was a narrow spot in the track, and they had to stop. One of them started to get in my face, but Bear took exception to that, so the rider backed off. I told them in no uncertain terms that they were a menace to the trail, and they were going to walk out to Daisy Hollow Rd. The smart a## in the group says something like "You can't tell us what to do. You don't own the trail!" I looked at him and said, "As a matter of fact, until you get out to the road, yes, I do!" They walked.

Yes, I was rude, too, but it was in response the the reckless "rudity" we experienced. I remained "anti" mountain biking for about eight years after that. There were other incidents over the years, when I was a park ranger. It isn't just mountain bikers, though. All trail users (bikers, 'bladers, equstrians) are becoming more and more intolerant of others on "their" trail. Check out this Pioneer Press article from last year:

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/3566868.htm

So, do your part. Obey the IMBA rules of the trail, and...

...Ride safe,
Hans