Leb Thursday Night Ride 12/15 7:00 [Archive] - Minnesota Off-Road Cyclists Discussion Forums

bigwheel

12-12-2005, 10:01 PM

I plan to be there on Thursday night.

It's looking iffy that I'll be able to make a Tuesday harmon ride this week, but I'm going to try.

Ted, I don't expect the strapping tape to hold. My prediction is that the strands will separate and the screws will still poke through. On the bright side, if you take every old tube that flats and wrap it around the new one, eventually you won't need any air.

jeffgude

12-12-2005, 10:36 PM

Ted, I don't expect the strapping tape to hold. My prediction is that the strands will separate and the screws will still poke through. On the bright side, if you take every old tube that flats and wrap it around the new one, eventually you won't need any air.

What's the issue here? Tire liner strategies? I'm making a set of studded tires - I was planning on using a combination of duct tape and old inner tube as liner. Will this work?

harts

12-12-2005, 10:37 PM

What's the required and "pretty much required" gear list for winter mountain biking? Or is it better to learn the hard way?

bigwheel

12-12-2005, 10:57 PM

What's the issue here? Tire liner strategies? I'm making a set of studded tires - I was planning on using a combination of duct tape and old inner tube as liner. Will this work?

The old tube will help. Duct tape will be useless because it tears.

I'm not an authority on what works, but I'm beginning to know a lot about what doesn't work. Picture riding the XX section, thumping sharp edges of rocks with your screw-laden tires, which are running less than 1/2 the recommended minimum pressure. Every time a screw hits a rock, the screw pokes up at the tube, then the tube pushes it back down. This is a tough environment -- especially for those of use that are about 240 lbs in biking garb.

Ted found some nice foam-backed air conditioning tape, which looked perfect. After about 4 rides, the foam squished down and every screw head was poking through, causing Ted to flat out on Sunday.

My current theory is that you need something strong enough that there is no way for the screws to poke through. Then, you need something else (like an old tube) to spread out the impact in all directions.

I'm currently trying a loop of 3-inch kevlar (from a boat builder catalog) lining the tire, plus two old tubes wrapped around the good one. Hopefully, this will be overkill. If I have a flat this week, I expect it to be on my back wheel, which still has my old setup.

bigwheel

12-12-2005, 11:06 PM

What's the required and "pretty much required" gear list for winter mountain biking? Or is it better to learn the hard way?

For me: Bike, Gloves, Helmet, Ear covers, Warm Shoes or booties, Long johns, Wind breaker pants and a Hawaiian Shirt.

If you are an XC skier, it is pretty much identical, except that you need warmer gloves.

The big mistake that most people make is to over-dress. Then you get sweaty, and that is when you get cold. Also, resist the urge to wear thick socks. They will squish your feet and reduce circulation. Do not wear cotton next to your body because it holds the moisture.

RedSquirrel

12-12-2005, 11:29 PM

I too had an issue w/the single tube liner. I went over the huge log pile at riverbottoms & flatted. I'm convinced by the situation it was two fold....

1. My knobbies are large yet 1/2 screws we're too much. I went back to 3/8 inch. I figure 1/8 max protrusion beyond knobs is plenty. Rubber soft, screws only help if icey & hard crud, otherwise knobbies do the job in snow. So 1/2 inch was overkill, see next point.

2. As Bob pointed out puncture through liner is an issue. I will add low pressure allows more pinch flats too. I also believe longer screws can lead to screw head actually hitting rim & hence, rim(tire wall)/screw/tube sandwich. So I'm going w/smaller screw lenght & normal summer tire pressure.

My action and plan... I'm going w/ 2 tube liner in front & 3 tube liner in back. I like to go too extremes. It will work darn it! Heavey, but should work. 'm sticky with rubber cement, the tires are complete & mounted. Hope to see you Thursday (I'm tentitive).

Heath

mtnbykr

12-13-2005, 06:21 AM

i've never had a flat on my innovas... :?)

edit: and they work as well, if not better than, any homemade tire out there.

kl

mtnbykr

12-13-2005, 06:25 AM

What's the required and "pretty much required" gear list for winter mountain biking?

good gloves/mittens, warm shoes/boots, fleece 2nd layer, waterproof/windproof outer layer, cover your head/ears. keep your water water.

Or is it better to learn the hard way?

if you mean losing finger/toes or worse, no...

kl

RedSquirrel

12-13-2005, 08:30 AM

Clothes: For the cold days, below are all good comments, don't forget the hand or toe warmer packets to place in boot or where needed!

Studded Tires: Why buy if you can make tires? Buying is no fun. I did find some studded for $28 ea. However, I was happy to see they weight the same or more than my home made. Hmmmm...perhaps.

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=IKIHS (http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=IKIHS)
<TABLE class=mainBox cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=main vAlign=top></TD><TD vAlign=top><TABLE class=productDetail height="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=productDetail vAlign=top height="100%">Innova Ice Husky Studded Snow Tire
The best value in studded mountain bike tires. The Ice Husky has 268 carbon steel studs and an aggressive tread for great traction on snow and ice. 26x2.1 (56-559). 35-65 PSI. 1270 grams</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

tedsti

12-13-2005, 08:31 AM

My tires from last year had one slit open 29er tube as a liner and I ran all year without a flat. I glued it to the inside of the tire which was a PITA. I also ran 35-40 psi which means less tire flex to wiggle the screw head.

This year I am trying to run lower pressure on bigger tires. This means that the screw heads will be moving around more. It was this back and forth wiggling of the screw head that tore the foam tape and exposed the screw head edges. I just need to get a tough layer over top of the foam to hold it together.

I could just go back to the inner tube liner, but I am trying to find something a little lighter. Plus the inner tube liner has a tendancy to move around unless you glue it in.

Hathor

12-13-2005, 09:36 AM

This week is John's birthday, so I am sending him with his most favorite cookies for the ride Thursday night...my top secret recipe for Pecan Sandies. If you are debating riding Thursday night, these will be worth showing up for! Mmmm!

KleinCrazy

12-13-2005, 10:13 AM

We should have new snow and a full moon on thursday for this ride. I might just have to make it out.

mtnbykr

12-13-2005, 02:16 PM

Why buy if you can make tires?

cuz flats aren't fun... :?)

kl

Magic

12-13-2005, 02:20 PM

Homemades don't equal flats. I have no problem with my studded tires. Just a little more prep time when mounting but after that, it's all fun baby!

mtnbykr

12-13-2005, 02:26 PM

Homemades don't equal flats. I have no problem with my studded tires. Just a little more prep time when mounting but after that, it's all fun baby!

i guess i'm comparing apples to donuts...

up here, having a flat on a ride may mean a 2 hour walk back home, not to the parking lot and your car. some of my winter rides take me 2+hours 1 way. we also cross streets/roads to get to the good stuff.

most of my dealing w/ homade studds usually means watching some poor sap fix his flat when its 10* and the wind is blowing up your dress like crazy. and then watching him do it again in 30 minutes or so.

and yes, i've tried homade studds. just not worth the risk and aggrevation. to each their own.

kl

Magic

12-13-2005, 02:37 PM

and yes, i've tried homade studds. just not worth the risk and aggrevation. to each their own.

kl

No harm no fowl. I hear what your saying. And it is a pain to watch or change homemades. May the snow you ride on come down in big flakes.:)

gopherhockey

12-13-2005, 03:18 PM

tedsti

12-13-2005, 03:22 PM

Based on the latest weather forcast of up to 6" of fresh snow, we may need all hands on deck to help pack the snow down.

gopherhockey

12-13-2005, 03:27 PM

Based on the latest weather forcast of up to 6" of fresh snow, we may need all hands on deck to help pack the snow down.

Sweet! I love the ever changing conditions out there. Would be fun with a large group...

tedsti

12-14-2005, 09:13 AM

Plenty of fresh snow. This could be interesting........

TML

12-14-2005, 09:31 AM

I'm going to try and make it down for the snowy adventure. I haven't put my studs on yet so I'd better get crackin' on that along with clearing the driveway tonight.

Hopefully see everyone tomorrow. It could prove to be a real trudge of a ride. Think I'll throw the skis in the truck just in case. :)

gopherhockey

12-14-2005, 12:47 PM

We'll have to take turns up front and rotate back... it'll be just like a road ride.. only different... ;)

tedsti

12-14-2005, 01:42 PM

I don't think the studs will be needed as much as BIG knobbies.

I haven't put my studs on yet so I'd better get crackin' on that along with clearing the driveway tonight.

Trevize1138

12-14-2005, 02:54 PM

What speeds do you guys go in conditions like these? Do you just sorta creep along? More to the point, would a guy on skis slow ya down? :D

Magic

12-14-2005, 02:56 PM

Slow is the name of the game. You just have to wait your turn for the Camelback and the teeter.:D

tedsti

12-14-2005, 03:17 PM

No, you would probably speed us up because you would be out front packing the trail:D . Any one of you who keeps threatening to turn to skis are more than welcome to hit the trails tonight and pack things down.

What speeds do you guys go in conditions like these? Do you just sorta creep along? More to the point, would a guy on skis slow ya down? :D

RedSquirrel

12-14-2005, 03:28 PM

Maybe it will be two feet deep? If I make it I'm going to ride with snowshoes on.

Think about the benifits....with each pedal I'll actually be snow shoe'n at the same time, I won't have far to put my foot down, and if nothing else I can run laps around the parking lot and make a track for us.

Maybe we can build a snow jump!!

Trevize1138

12-14-2005, 03:53 PM

Tim Wegner

12-14-2005, 05:20 PM

I got out early this afternoon and snowshoed a lot of the bike trail at Lebanon. I think the snow was about 7 inches deep. Looks like there were 1 or 2 people that had ridden their bikes on the trail------for a ways and then as soon as the first ski crossing came up they jumped on the ski trail. Big time no no as far as dakota is concerned. Even though the ski trail was not groomed yet they do not want the bikes on the ski trails. I am assuming these people were uneducated since they must not have been able to read the signs that you guys had put up that instructed all riders to stay ON the BIKE trails and OFF of the SKI trails.

TW

manual63

12-14-2005, 05:32 PM

I will hopefully finish getting my tires studded tonight. If so, I might just want to try them out tomorrow. Not sure, but I will try.

Anyone have any snowshoes I could borrow or maybe have some for sale...cheap? I weight about 175.

Trevize1138

12-15-2005, 09:24 AM

Anyone have any snowshoes I could borrow or maybe have some for sale...cheap? I weight about 175.

Really, I wouldn't waste my money on snowshoes. I don't see the point. Get backcountry skis, dude (do I sound like a broken record yet?)

I was blazing trails up a steep hill through tight trees at Theo last night and then doing telemark turns down the other side. With snowshoes I'd be able to go straight up the hill rather than switch-backing as I was doing, but no downhill payoff. I thought "Let me get this straight: with snowshoes I'd have less challenge and less fun? Boy, sign me up!"

:)

bigwheel

12-15-2005, 09:26 AM

(Finally back in the office, catching up on things.)

Is this ride still on?

I'm still waiting for the lower gearing to show up, so deep snow is going to be really tough for me. However, it will be nice to get out for some exercise.

We can also wax up our skis as an option. The only night skiing I've ever done was in the full moon with a wimpy LED headband light. It might be cool to break out the monster lights for some night XC. Lebanon Hills East (visitor center) is an excellent place for classic skiing.

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 09:28 AM

I'm in still. Will be a good adventure. I'll bring the camera for some really great snow pics.

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 09:30 AM

I thought "Let me get this straight: with snowshoes I'd have less challenge and less fun? Boy, sign me up!"

:)

Not to let the topic get stolen, but snowshoes rock dude - don't knock em'. Whatever the winter sport people select, more power to ya'll for getting out and having fun! Nuff said on that topic.

tonight its bikes..

Trevize1138

12-15-2005, 09:37 AM

Not to let the topic get stolen, but snowshoes rock dude - don't knock em'. Whatever the winter sport people select, more power to ya'll for getting out and having fun! Nuff said on that topic.

tonight its bikes..

I don't mean any disrespect to snowshoes. I just think they're stupid and suck. :crazy:

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 10:11 AM

I don't mean any disrespect to snowshoes. I just think they're stupid and suck. :crazy:

http://www.morcmtb.org/images/temp/capacity.jpg

mara

12-15-2005, 10:32 AM

I brought both snowshoes and bike with me to work today . . . With luck, I'll be able to fall down in snow using one or the other.

I have my very spinniest gear on. After Salem last Saturday, I'm afraid it won't be enough. And you thought I was putzy on dirt! :D

manual63

12-15-2005, 10:42 AM

(Finally back in the office, catching up on things.)

Is this ride still on?

I say we try to ride or hike/snowshoe. I don't have snowshoes yet, so I can hike and pack snow behind the snowshoes.......if we choose that option.

I hope we can ride some, even if it's just a little bit.

RedSquirrel

12-15-2005, 10:46 AM

I'm out. No sitter. I called everyone. Sorry I couldn't help trail blaze. Could be the best workout of the year! Have fun. Heath

Hathor

12-15-2005, 10:54 AM

I don't mean any disrespect to snowshoes. I just think they're stupid and suck. :crazy:

Yeah, I don't get it. Isn't that kind of like saying "I don't like hiking shoes?" What's not to like about them. They let you walk in the snow and give you a great workout. Maybe you were just feeling confrontational?

Magic

12-15-2005, 11:12 AM

Yea, what Liz said!:)

manual63

12-15-2005, 11:13 AM

Yeah, I don't get it. Isn't that kind of like saying "I don't like hiking shoes?" What's not to like about them. They let you walk in the snow and give you a great workout. Maybe you were just feeling confrontational?

Chris is just putting wood in the fire. I don't know who is worse....Chris or Sean.....:)

TML

12-15-2005, 11:34 AM

I got the studs put on the winter bike last night. So I'm looking forward to the adventure tonight. Though like Ted said, studs probably wont matter much tonight and unfortunately mine are much better set up for the ice races than 8 inches of heavy stuff. They're aggressive studs on fairly skinny tires.

If the bike turns out to be a no go, I'll have an assortment of other weapons in the truck from which to choose. Maybe even some of those evil snowshoes! :D

tedsti

12-15-2005, 11:38 AM

Now if only he could put some wood on a real post ride fire. That would be the shiznit mcfizzle.

Hmmm, wind must be coming from the right direction. I think I smell cookies in the oven at the Lundell house.:D

Chris is just putting wood in the fire. I don't know who is worse....Chris or Sean.....:)

Trevize1138

12-15-2005, 11:53 AM

Chris is just putting wood in the fire. I don't know who is worse....Chris or Sean.....:)

No, it's a well-known fact that snowshoeing sucks. Studies have shown that 9 out of 10 times backcountry skis rule while snowshoes drool.

manual63

12-15-2005, 11:58 AM

No, it's a well-known fact that snowshoeing sucks. Studies have shown that 9 out of 10 times backcountry skis rule while snowshoes drool.

That reminds me....I have to make a dental appointment....thanks.

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 12:17 PM

Hmmm, wind must be coming from the right direction. I think I smell cookies in the oven at the Lundell house.:D

I almost can't stop eating them... hope there are some left!

Trevize1138

12-15-2005, 03:25 PM

Magic

12-15-2005, 03:29 PM

And another log gets added to the fire!!!!!!!!:D

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 04:03 PM

Looking forward to this ski/bike excursion! :banana:

I honestly hope I didn't offend any snowshoers out there with my comments. If I did, I feel awful. I mean, I'm an idiot. The last thing you need is further ridicule by me. :cryin:

Thats ok, I understand...

Troll in my group ride forum and you are subject to creative editing... sorry, thems the rules. ;)

But dare anyone go in and edit John's post.......:)

manual63

12-15-2005, 04:14 PM

Thats ok, I understand...

Troll in my group ride forum and you are subject to creative editing... sorry, thems the rules. ;)

But dare anyone go in and edit John's post.......:)

You big meanie.....editing Chris's post like that!

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 04:49 PM

But dare anyone go in and edit John's post.......:)

;) True.....

gopherhockey

12-15-2005, 10:08 PM

Ok... so this one wasn't the best of ideas. Check out the gallery for some fun pics of us struggling through the deep and very powdery snow. The guys on skis had a much easier time of it. What a workout though! Thanks everyone for coming out.

Maybe next week we'll snowshoe/ski until the trail hardens up. Bummer....

:cryin:

[defective]

12-15-2005, 11:30 PM

Looks like it was more of a bonding experience than a ride.

I stayed in the city and spent about an hour riding alleys and side streets, busting through the humps of snow and ice left by the edge of the plows at every sidewalk crossing. As the temp drops and they start to harden up a bit you don't know if you're going to plow through them or be routed over them until you pop the front tire over and let the rear do its thing. I put my new forks on today, and it was a good indoctrination into the stern world of a fully rigid ride.

gopherhockey

12-16-2005, 07:17 AM

']Looks like it was more of a bonding experience than a ride.

That about summs it up.

Of course all our night rides are bonding experiences... :jumpy:

TML

12-16-2005, 09:04 AM

It was some tough going but none-the-less, fun was had by all, no doubt. I ditched the bike in favor of skis for the second lap and had a great time taunting those still on two wheels.

Thanks all for the post ride heat, and bevarages. And thanks Liz, for the great cookies! Too bad there was only one for each of us. :cryin: John opened the tupperware and there were only 8 cookies in there. He apologized and said that you only made a small batch.

Great pictures John! Thanks for posting 'em up.

bigwheel

12-16-2005, 09:22 AM

Last night, we officially crossed the line between "odd" and "downright stupid" (but still fun). Thanks Liz for the cookies.

Starting Saturday, I'm switching over to XC skis until the snow packs down. We've waited about 4 years for this kind of snow, so we should use it as God intended. I'm up for either skating or classic, but I think classic will be better for night runs. I'll also be able to drag my wife along if we stick to classic skis.

I decided on the obvious way to use a bike headlight for night skiing. I'm just going to leave my light on the helmet, and wear my helmet for night skiing.

Trevize1138

12-16-2005, 09:29 AM

I was taunting and making fun of those crazy bikers only for about the first 5 minutes. After that I took pity on them!

We started out from the parking lot up the Dream II climb. I charged out ahead on my skis to pack down the snow, keeping my speed up so I didn't get in anybody's way. 50 feet into the trail I noticed the light from the bikes wasn't as strong ... I look back and everyone's stopped about 10 feet in!

Trouble was the snow didn't pack in. It was so dry and fluffy that it would just shift around like sand. Bad for bikes ... but awesome on skis! Woot!

Compliments to Liz on the very yummy cookies. As I told John, I was amazed that snowshoers could make such great treats! *SMACK!* :hit: ... sorry ...

tedsti

12-16-2005, 09:53 AM

That is true. Now all we need is some good freezing rain to solidify things and we are back in business!!:D

This snow is just going to take a little more effort to pack. I hope to get out there with the snowshoes this weekend.

Trouble was the snow didn't pack in. It was so dry and fluffy that it would just shift around like sand. Bad for bikes ... but awesome on skis! Woot!

manual63

12-16-2005, 10:45 AM

Yeah, it was crazy out there. Fun, I got a flat with my new studs....and had some really good cookies.

Thanks Liz...:)

mara

12-16-2005, 10:48 AM

Yes, it was stupid, but also a lot of fun. I've never been so excited about riding twenty feet at a time. :cool: Skiing may have been "easier," but the skiers missed out on one memorable experience.

I hope to get out to one of the trails with snowshoes tomorrow.

Thanks for the cookies, Liz!