Real name registering

[RoostRider]

I registered for the site and entered the standard bogus name in the required name field. Shortly thereafter I received an email (presumedly from an admin here) saying that I needed to use my real name.

I replied that I consider my privacy important and that I would have to re-evaluate the use of this site if it was required to use real names. This person sent me back a very polite email stating that it was indeed required, but that I was welcome to stay, provided I followed this policy.


Heres my issue-

I don't want my name all over the net. If I use my real name, it will be in the description beside every post I make and thereby available to anyone who wants it (whether I want them to have it or not), and probably will be located by search engines such as Google and whatnot.. with my name they can easily find my address and phone number... This can easily lead to people finding more information.. etc..etc...

Don't give me that "what have you got to hide" speech, 'cause I think that went out with McCarthyism (sp?)...

Maybe I'm paranoid, or maybe I'm just cautious... either way, I like this site and would preffer to be able to access it, gain information from it, and hopefully provide back to the community.... and I don't want to break the rules

but I value my privacy more.....

I believe I should be allowed to personally decide, on a as needed basis, who gets what information about me....

Anyone have any solutions for me? (you don't need to suggest lying and putting in a believable name, because I've already thought of that.... oddly, I would preffer to be honest)

Can I provide my real name only to the admins in some way?

Why do you have this rule? (it is very odd)

[drmrboyalex]

i dont think its that big of a deal to use your real name. but also i see your point...but if you look at some of the forums many people dont use their real name.

[bikeoutback]

I use my real name, but that's my choice. I'm not sure what the big deal is but I guess if they want real names registered then they shouldn't display them on the forums, but again I could care less personally but I see your point. I also have seen many names on the forums that aren't real or use real first name and just last initial. I'm in favor of the latter but that's cause I prefer someone's real name when I'm meeting them at group rides but that's just so I can put names and faces together easier.

[RoostRider]

so would, say, "Joe B" be acceptable?

I understand the logic of using real names for convenience, and I could even see it helping to keep flame wars to a minimum.... but privacy is privacy....

All my biking friends just call me "B" anyways.... my first name is so common that it is practically useless.... and my last name is so intricate that no one uses it

[bigwheel]

I cannot answer for what can/can't be done, but it doesn't seem like it is asking too much to put your real name next to your posts. I don't remember being required to post your address or telephone number, or any other "secret" information. We can get that stuff from Google or Yahoo.

Anonymous posting sucks, and detracts from the credibility of the forums. If you are saying something in public that you don't want to have associated with your name, then maybe you shouldn't say it at all.

[drmrboyalex]

so would, say, "Joe B" be acceptable?

I understand the logic of using real names for convenience, and I could even see it helping to keep flame wars to a minimum.... but privacy is privacy....

All my biking friends just call me "B" anyways.... my first name is so common that it is practically useless.... and my last name is so intricate that no one uses it

there are some people on these forums that do that

[manual63]

One of the reasons I want people to use their real names is this. When I go to most forums, people tend to get way out of hand and the forums are no fun to go to for information. This is the MORC forum for cyclists. If you belong to the cycling community here, it is nice to know who you are.

Honestly, you are being paranoid. There are many ways to protect yourself and putting your real name on a web forum is not going to make you vulnerable to hackers/theives/spammers on the internet. You Email is hidden and you do not need to give your address. This is a strange fear I don't understand why people have. If you ever give anyone your ID to look at, use a credit card, have mail, or put your name anywhere, people can access it.

Identity theft is mostly done through credit card mail and other mail you get and don't destroy.....that is the number one place. As far as the Internet goes, there is no real way of getting your info, unless you give it to people. Doing E-Commerce when you put all your info down, that's when you need to trust the company you are buying from......but still not too risky if it's a respected service.

As far as using your real name on the MORC forums, it's not risky at all, unless you have something to hide. Using your real name gives you and us more credibility. If we could have fake names, I could have my real one, then register a fake one and use that one to spy or make statements I am afraid to make with my real name. I don't think we want that going on on the MORC forums.

I strongly recommend the use of real names on the MORC forums, there is no reason not to enforce this policy. Look at all the stuff I say.....and I use my real name. Step up to the plate and be a real person please.....just like if we had to meet face to face.

Thank you.

[mara]

I second the flaming and credibility reasons and will add one of my own. One neat benefit of the forums is being able to meet up with new people who like the same rides you do. I probably would not agree to meet up with someone I knew only as "Stoneage" to go ride somewhere. There is also a measure of safety in knowing who each other are.

[Burke]

I will try to fill in as many details as I can.

There are two main reasons for using real names.

The first is accountability. If you are using your real name, you will be more likely to treat others with the respect that you would like to be given. It cuts down on thread flame ups and slander/libel.

Secondly, we are in the process of exploring using membership software to manage MORC's membership database that would blend with the online forum database. The name you have in our membership database would have to match the forum database. We need your real name in the database for membership communication (yes, we're opt in).

That's the end of the factual piece of my post, the rest is personal opinion.

If you're concerned about privacy, having your real name posted in a forum should be the least of your concerns. There are enormous databases that store much more than just your name. If someone is wanting to cross reference a name with an address and phone number, wouldn't they just go to the place that has the address, phone number and name all listed in the same place to begin with?

Regarding the concern about people you don't want to have access, having access to your posts. This is the internet. Everyone has access to everything. It's the same thing with email, don't type it, if you're not completely comfortable with it.

We will be developing a website policy over this winter, look for info in the coming months.

Scott

[drmrboyalex]

i agree w/shad....it does add credibility to the forums....these arent your normal post and vent forums(except in the non-biking discussions:p) most of these threads have a purpose and if "joe blow" is saying something most are gunna think its a load

[gopherhockey]

A few small additions to what has already been mentioned.

One is spammers. When I see the registration emails from the forum and I see a fake name, I immediately think its a spammer. If I had more time I'd just delete these registrations. The result would be either heading off a spammer before they trash our forums, or I remove someone who might someday become the next group ride regular, or even the next MORC board member!

On a more personal note, I've put in a LOT of long hours working with the forums and the web site (as have others) and consider it a small request to have people follow a few simple rules set out and agreed upon by the board and general MORC membership.

I know many who have asked this before. Some have left to never return (sad) and some have chosen to put their trust in MORC and have become some of our best members, or at the very least someone I am always willing to take the time to listen too in this online forum system, not to mention give them and their views the respect they deserve.

.. and to the thread starter, I was glad you were not offended by my emails and hope you will stick with us with your real name....

[Tetreves]

I have an added point: I had a stalker earlier this year, who found me on this forum, and pretended to be someone other than who she was.

Scary, if you ask me, and a big waste of my time.

I have since removed my last name (it used to be there).

Email me if you want to know it.

[bikeoutback]

so would, say, "Joe B" be acceptable?


I was just saying I've seen it on here, not sure what is acceptable or not according to the Administrators, I just joined the site a few months ago. What I can say I've observed is these forums are not like other forums I've belonged to. The entire site and people that put the site and trails together are more of a community with the forums as a tool to foster communication. I went to my first group ride and it was very cool to see 20 lights through the forest at leb in a line, but also that I was meeting people for the first time but already knew alot of the names and who they were from this site.

[manual63]

What I can say I've observed is these forums are not like other forums I've belonged to.

This is a good point. These forums are part of a community of real people.....not your traditional forums. In this sense alone, I think it is very important to use your real names.

[gopherhockey]

I have an added point: I had a stalker earlier this year, who found me on this forum, and pretended to be someone other than who she was.

Scary, if you ask me, and a big waste of my time.

I have since removed my last name (it used to be there).

Email me if you want to know it.

Sad this happened.

However, if I wanted to stalk someone on a forum the lack of a real name wouldn't stop me - especially someone who has hundreds of posts and pictures (some with full face).

But I am sorry that happened too you. Knowing who you are and the support you have given MORC I've let your missing last name slip... for now.

[drmrboyalex]

This is a good point. These forums are part of a community of real people.....not your traditional forums. In this sense alone, I think it is very important to use your real names.

i think it is even cooler that we are mostly all from the same state(or at least were from MN) and that in itself is something you dont always see

[Kosk]

If you're so worried about your name getting into the wrong hands then you might want to just get off the internet all together. The people that do that have all kinds of ways to your personal information, via the net or anywhere else really.

This may be off topic, but I personally feel that if an individual wants to use this site to gain information about trails, conditions, etc, go for it, but just lurk as a "guest", you can get at what you need as just a "guest". If the individual wants to contribute opinions, ideas, or post up photos and take up server space with them, then they should pony up the $25 and a name and become a MORC member. You not only pay for the server space you use up, but you help maintain the trails you ride for free on a regular basis, and provide valuable funds to gain new trails all across the state. It's really an easy way to help support mountain biking in the state, and you don't even have to ride your bike, lift a pulaski, or go to a meeting. Just float a weeks worth of latte's our way and add another body to the ranks.

So if it sounds like I'm calling out all the registered forum users that are not MORC members, then yeah, guess I am. ( That means you too, all you picture happy freeriders; get on board now, cuz Buck and I are gonna turn this thing upside down in the next couple of years, don't be sitting on the dock when the ship is out to sea)

[gopherhockey]

I went to my first group ride and it was very cool to see 20 lights through the forest at leb in a line, but also that I was meeting people for the first time but already knew alot of the names and who they were from this site.

This is a VERY good point and one of the real cool things about our forums.

I know this has helped me get to know people much quicker... and hopefully has helped many step into an event like a group ride and be just like a regular even in their first visit.

[SuperClydesdale]

This may be off topic, but I personally feel that if an individual wants to use this site to gain information about trails, conditions, etc, go for it, but just lurk as a "guest", you can get at what you need as just a "guest". If the individual wants to contribute opinions, ideas, or post up photos and take up server space with them, then they should pony up the $25 and a name and become a MORC member...

So if it sounds like I'm calling out all the registered forum users that are not MORC members, then yeah, guess I am. ( That means you too, all you picture happy freeriders; get on board now, cuz Buck and I are gonna turn this thing upside down in the next couple of years, don't be sitting on the dock when the ship is out to sea)


I am in 100% agreement with Pete on this one. Non-members can read, members can read/write.

Mark Gavin

[manual63]

I am in 100% agreement with Pete on this one. Non-members can read, members can read/write.

Mark Gavin

I don't agree with this point. At least the whole, you need to be a MORC member to read and post on the forums.

I think people should be able to come here for awhile, find out what we are all about, even get to meet people, and ride our trails......before they must become a MORC member. Paying $25.00 and becoming a MORC member is just something people will hopefully do once they find out what it's all about. But if someone is going to support something, I am all about giving them time to decide. Ride the trails, come do some trailwork, post and meet people on the forums. If you really like us, then I suggest giving your support. I think most people would honestly support us if they can. There are many younger riders and people who are just tight on money and they can't right now. They should not be banned from being a part of our group.

It's strongly encouraged to join MORC, but I don't think it should ever become a requirement in order to be involved in our activities.

[RedSquirrel]

Agree, open door policy to investigate MORC. Then pay up to continue. How long to allow access is tricky. I mean MORC is here to support all right?

Hmmm, tricky indeed, I used the info here for over a year before creating an account, then another year before paying dues! Thanks! I will continue to support via my membership and contribution of time in other ways. This may not have happened without the open door...

Perhaps the software Scott mentioned could mask names for non-members for a duration. Of course members would see un-masked information.

Hopefully this Winter all the right answers will come out...tricky topics no doubt. vote?

[drmrboyalex]

i would totally join MORC, but as Shad mentioned, some of us dont have money...and the little i have needs to be used elsewhere. keep the usage policy the way it is...let non-members use it

[Paul Swenson]

i would totally join MORC, but as Shad mentioned, some of us dont have money...and the little i have needs to be used elsewhere. keep the usage policy the way it is...let non-members use it

Some of us who have money but no time may be willing to sponsor those that have time to volunteer. I'll buy you a membership in exchange for trailwork.:)

[Adam Hjelle]

I also don't think that membership should be a contingency of posting on the forums, maybe for the picture postings... My thoughts are that if you limit the postings to members, you are going to alienate those who are not member, and thus turn them off to potentially joining MORC. My impressions of MORC is to be an inclusive organization, membership is just an option people have, it should never become a "mandatory" thing.

[manual63]

I think of MORC as similar to MPR and PBS. You can listen/watch all you want without joining. But enough people need to join and support the organization for it to work. The more people that become members, the bigger and more powerful (bad word).....more ability, MORC has to do what we all want.

It is our job (MORC and it's board members and members) to help make people want to join and support our organization. If you are not happy with what we are doing, then don't join. If you like what we do and like our trails, by all means....support us any way you can.

[SuperClydesdale]

Shad


I don't agree with this point. At least the whole, you need to be a MORC member to read and post on the forums.

If you re-read my post you'll see that I think everybody, member or not, should be able to read forum posts.

I think people should be able to come here for awhile, find out what we are all about, even get to meet people, and ride our trails......before they must become a MORC member.

Requiring MORC membership to post on the forums would not preclude any of these things.

Paying $25.00 and becoming a MORC member is just something people will hopefully do once they find out what it's all about. But if someone is going to support something, I am all about giving them time to decide. Ride the trails, come do some trailwork, post and meet people on the forums. If you really like us, then I suggest giving your support.

I also hope that people will support MORC once they find out what we are all about. But I also recognize that many people want to get something in return apart from “just” membership. I see forum registration in the same light as I do the mugs/CDs/magazine that comes with MPR membership. I think that a more immediate benefit of MORC membership would help increase our membership, and I simply think that forum registration would provide an immediate and tangible benefit of membership.

I think most people would honestly support us if they can. There are many younger riders and people who are just tight on money and they can't right now. They should not be banned from being a part of our group.

Although I have no hard data to back my position –and I suspect that you don’t either– based on the demographic I see on the trails I firmly believe that the “younger rider/tight on money” crowd is a very small minority. This is not to say there aren’t some who fall into this category, because I am sure that there are. I just think it is a small number, and in any case they can reap nearly all of the benefits of the work that MORC does except forum posting.

I think that most non-members who know about membership and choose to remain non-members do so in large part because they don’t recognize the value-add that membership brings. Save some shop discounts and a MORC sticker, I can’t think of anything that functionally separates members from non-members.

It's strongly encouraged to join MORC, but I don't think it should ever become a requirement in order to be involved in our activities.

Is a little bit of exclusivity a bad thing? It is my opinion that a membership requirement for forum posts could only increase the member rolls. To be sure, this is a good topic for discussion.

Off to ride now...

Mark

[gopherhockey]

We got a little off the original topic, but thats ok. The idea behind our forums is an important one and its good to hear the membership out on this. We did speak to this subject briefly at our annual planning meeting.

There are other things we can do... the little MORC logo I think helped. There are forums for morc members only as well. Its not a full on arm twist, but every little bit helps. We have a good choir here as well, I think we all do a good job of helping people see the value in joining up.

The idea behind a system of earned membership was tossed around as well. Stay tuned on that one.

[flombe]

The idea behind a system of earned membership was tossed around as well. Stay tuned on that one.


I am glad to hear that the "earned membership" idea is alive and I look forward to seeing the idea developed as part of MORC! When the time comes, I 'd be glad to sponsor new members.

[stoneage]

I probably would not agree to meet up with someone I knew only as "Stoneage" to go ride somewhere.
Yeah, that's pretty scary!!!! That's why I use my real name now, "Uno Rigido" :)
Speaking of scary, my 'real' real name scares the Calvin's off the right wingers. I'd take a long, hard look at this rule, John!!!! ;) ;)

[The Hammer]

oh yeah, you are. My real name is not Jack Rabbit, it's an alias. Big suprise right? I don't know if it matters but I will explain my reason for using an alias.
I work in the bike industry. I am not the spokesperson for my company. When I am on this forum I do not represent my employer. I don't believe that if I use my real name that people can separate me from my employer. I should be able to be honest on the forum without fear of it affecting my job. For example, some of you may remember that I said that I liked to skid, not a very popular thing to say on this forum! Ha Ha Braaap. My employer should not have that held against them. Also, I would have to be careful about what I say in case my employer reads it. If I would like to make a recommendation that someone shop at a certain LBS, it could be damaging to my career, but should I have to lie or just not be able to post up to help someone out. One thing I don't do under my alias is try to promote myself or my employer, that would be wrong. I'm not trying to decieve anyone. I've been around long enough to know that there are very few secrets in this small bike community of ours, I will eventually be flushed out of my rabbit hole. I don't want to do anything that I will regret.
I may have been part of a few inflamed threads, but I don't abuse my anonynimity (could someone spell check that for me) to bash and run like that David Thorpe cat. I am not a MORC member yet, but I have done trail work at Theo. I even posted up under my alias that I was going to be there. (I can hear the wheels turning now Shad.) I went on a MORC group ride at Mamoth, I posted under my alias that I was going to be there. People still rode with me, someone even recognized me from my workplace, hello Goat Girl. Can I afford $25 for a MORC membership, yeah probably, but not easily, remember I work in the bike industry. Not a lot of money here. My bicycle cost me $300, I had to make payments. Not that you should feel sorry for me, but it's not like I ride a $3000 bike and whine about paying $25 for use of the trail. Maybe people shouldn't give up their lattes to pay for their MORC membership, instead ask yourself "Do I really need to spend $110 on handlebars. Do I feel like I do my part for the industry, yes.
Sorry if this pisses people off. Braaaaaaap

[ppgc]

"Maybe people shouldn't give up their lattes to pay for their MORC membership, instead ask yourself "Do I really need to spend $110 on handlebars."

You almost made me spit out my mocha! :) I also had a hard time putting my real name in that field for a while and I can see real reasons why people should not have to put their real names.(Teachers, Bike Shop employees, tin foil hat wearers, etc.) Hell, if Shad's employer saw how much time he spent on here while at work I am sure he would be canned. :) (kidding Shad)

The question I always had was one of the reasons for using your real name is to match membership with the forum member. Can't we just use our membership number in another blank under our user CP? I think that would make matching way easier. Just my opinion.

-pete

[RoostRider]

First off let me say that I did not realize this post would get so much controversy. I just wanted some clarification on the rules (so I can follow them or leave) and to let people know why I don't agree with this one. (if it is one).

I appreciate all of the input, and I esspecially appreciate that everyone here has been civil about this big 'tadoo' I've made here unintentionally.

As I respect what you people have to say, I will try to address it all herein.... please be patient and read all of what I have to say before you comment on what I have to say...

One of the reasons I want people to use their real names is this. When I go to most forums, people tend to get way out of hand and the forums are no fun to go to for information. .

The first is accountability. If you are using your real name, you will be more likely to treat others with the respect that you would like to be given. It cuts down on thread flame ups and slander/libel.

This is where good admining steps in....

This is the MORC forum for cyclists. If you belong to the cycling community here, it is nice to know who you are.

I do belong to the cycling community, with or without MORC and this site and my name being posted all over it. It might be nice to know who everyone is, but even if you met me in person it should be my perogative to give you my name or not. I haven't even met most of you people, so why should I have to tell you all my real name?

Honestly, you are being paranoid. There are many ways to protect yourself and putting your real name on a web forum is not going to make you vulnerable to hackers/theives/spammers on the internet. You Email is hidden and you do not need to give your address. This is a strange fear I don't understand why people have.

You may want to consider that someone may just not want everyone on this forum knowing their real name... for a number of reasons that do not include hackers spammers and theives... like maybe they don't want some old adversary (or anyone else) knowing where they are and what they are up too....

It's not an issue of fear of identity theft with me... maybe it is with some

it's not risky at all, unless you have something to hide. Using your real name gives you and us more credibility.

I thought I told you that McCarthyism is not good logic to me... lol

look at all the stuff I say.....and I use my real name. Step up to the plate and be a real person please.....just like if we had to meet face to face.

well, I am a real person... and quite frankly, if you spoke to me like that in person, I probably wouldn't be eager to give you my name in person either....

I second the flaming and credibility reasons and will add one of my own. One neat benefit of the forums is being able to meet up with new people who like the same rides you do. I probably would not agree to meet up with someone I knew only as "Stoneage" to go ride somewhere. There is also a measure of safety in knowing who each other are.

There is also a measure of lack of security in having everyone know who you are..... I will not do a search based on your name and give the results because that would be EXACTLY why I don't want my name on here.... but it would make my point pretty well I bet.....

If we were going to meet up for a ride, and I wouldn't give you my real name (in a PM or something), then I could understand your issues with security.... and then you could make the decision whether to ride with me or not....

If you're concerned about privacy, having your real name posted in a forum should be the least of your concerns. There are enormous databases that store much more than just your name. If someone is wanting to cross reference a name with an address and phone number, wouldn't they just go to the place that has the address, phone number and name all listed in the same place to begin with?

If you're so worried about your name getting into the wrong hands then you might want to just get off the internet all together. The people that do that have all kinds of ways to your personal information, via the net or anywhere else really.

This is my point exactly... someone here, for whatever reason, wants to find me, it is that much easier

Regarding the concern about people you don't want to have access, having access to your posts. This is the internet. Everyone has access to everything. It's the same thing with email, don't type it, if you're not completely comfortable with it.

Well, most forums do not require a real name, and therefore you manage to keep a bit of anonimity.... which can be good or bad depending on the situation

We will be developing a website policy over this winter, look for info in the coming months.

Probably a good idea, considering how much interest this post has made.... when you let us all know what you came up with, we can at least try to keep up with the rules, and we can make educated decisions about whether we wish to follow those rules or leave...

....[I] consider it a small request to have people follow a few simple rules set out and agreed upon by the board and general MORC membership.

I agree 100%, and I intend to follow your rules if I choose to stay. It is your forum, and I respect that.

I know many who have asked this before. Some have left to never return (sad) and some have chosen to put their trust in MORC and have become some of our best members

Its not about putting your trust in MORC... its about putting your trust in every single person who reads these forums.... and maybe some people have VERY good reasons not to do that... would MORC give me every members name if I asked for it in a letter to MORC? I would guess not (for MANY good reasons).... then why should it be so easy to get it here?....

.. and to the thread starter, I was glad you were not offended by my emails and hope you will stick with us with your real name....

You were quite polite and professional about it all. If I had been offended by your email, I would think it would be good reason to keep me off the site..lol...

I have an added point: I had a stalker earlier this year, who found me on this forum, and pretended to be someone other than who she was.

case and point... why should I tell Joe Schmops my real name before I even know them..... this is personal safety 101 folks!!! NOT paranoia...

I am only guessing here, that you guys have no way of checking backgrounds on people who join.... they could be ANYONE... and they can fake their name (so long as it seems real)... leaving the honest people at a clear disadvantage should something "come up"... (like one of the endless aray of net-jerks who threaten people who disagree with them)....

This is a good point. These forums are part of a community of real people.....not your traditional forums. In this sense alone, I think it is very important to use your real names.

This is the only valid argument I have heard, and I will consider it thoroughly before making my decision based on your input here... thank you

I am sorry that happened too you. Knowing who you are and the support you have given MORC I've let your missing last name slip... for now.

Well now, does this rule only apply to 'new guys' then?.... that doesn't seem right.... and appologizing after the fact is very ineffectual... the forum rules shouldn't require you to put yourself in that situation, only to hear "sorry that happened to you" later...

If the individual wants to contribute opinions, ideas, or post up photos and take up server space with them, then they should pony up the $25 and a name and become a MORC member. ..... you help maintain the trails you ride for free on a regular basis, and provide valuable funds to gain new trails all across the state. It's really an easy way to help support mountain biking in the state..... So if it sounds like I'm calling out all the registered forum users that are not MORC members, then yeah, guess I am

I am in 100% agreement with Pete on this one. Non-members can read, members can read/write.

I didn't come here for a lecture on why I should support MORC... or on why I should feel obligated to contribute money to MORC... This is not a pay site.... if you want it that way, you should make it that way, but I doubt you would have all the good input you do then and the site would suffer, including you....

Personally, I would have gotten to the point where it asks for your $25 and I would have hit 'cancel'... so would many many many others I would gladly bet.

I don't agree with this point. At least the whole, you need to be a MORC member to read and post on the forums.

I think people should be able to come here for awhile, find out what we are all about, even get to meet people, and ride our trails......before they must become a MORC member. Paying $25.00 and becoming a MORC member is just something people will hopefully do once they find out what it's all about. But if someone is going to support something, I am all about giving them time to decide. ....

It's strongly encouraged to join MORC, but I don't think it should ever become a requirement in order to be involved in our activities.

I agree with this philosophy completely... if you are as good of a resource and benefit to the cycling community as you say you are, getting funded should be done by those who grow to appreciate it.

Agree, open door policy to investigate MORC. Then pay up to continue. How long to allow access is tricky. I mean MORC is here to support all right?

I also don't think that membership should be a contingency of posting on the forums, maybe for the picture postings... My thoughts are that if you limit the postings to members, you are going to alienate those who are not member, and thus turn them off to potentially joining MORC. My impressions of MORC is to be an inclusive organization, membership is just an option people have, it should never become a "mandatory" thing.

Is MORC here to support all? I honestly don't know.... but if you make people pay to use your site, you have clearly made the decision that "NO" it is not here for all... This would GREATLY influence my decision as to whether I wanted to be a member of MORC...

Some of us who have money but no time may be willing to sponsor those that have time to volunteer. I'll buy you a membership in exchange for trailwork.:)

Thats great..... if you will make the same offer to everyone who needs to save a few bucks

If you are not happy with what we are doing, then don't join. If you like what we do and like our trails, by all means....support us any way you can.

I have been Mtn Biking since WAY before MORC... These trails are not "yours" they are "ours". (ours being EVERYONES).... I appreciate all the lobbying and trail maint. MORC does, but MORC didn't 'make' these trails and the members who have the attitude that they did should reconsider their attack.... I rode every single one of the places I ride BEFORE MORC even existed... (before most of you even had a Mtn Bike)

Is a little bit of exclusivity a bad thing? It is my opinion that a membership requirement for forum posts could only increase the member rolls. To be sure, this is a good topic for discussion.

I think a little bit of exclusivity is a bad thing.... and I don't think very many people would pay the fee just so they could use the forums (thereby increasing MORC funding)... but rather that the same people would become members and then just get to enjoy an exclusive, but much less informative, forum.

[lots of good input on why a real name might be a bad idea]

I couldn't agree more...

In closing, I would like to say once again that I appreciate the intentions of MORC and this forum site, and all of the input you people have directed towards "the new guy", when you could have more easily just blown this off as "a rule is a rule" instead of actively debating this issue. I will consider all of this in making my decisions to either be a MORC member or not and in deciding whether I intend to continue to use this forum.

Thanks to all who responded, or refrained from responding becuase what they had to say was already said, and all who make this site and MORC work.

[Burke]

This is where good admining steps in....

Personal responsibility? Or letting "the man" watch and manage your posts? Seems like your position is avoiding others watching your move. This seems to be contrary to that. I'm not sure why we need to watch what you're saying as closely as anonymity has required. We'd rather put the onus where it belongs (the individual) and only step in if things blow way out of proportion.

Among the valid arguments presented, it boils down to this being a site that is a reflection of MORC. You mention that people are able to search and find you by your posts here (if you used your real name). It's kind of hard for MORC to dodge people finding our site, since we're using the name "MORC" instead of some alias like "mountain bike advocacy group based in the upper midwest".

Because of this intentionally visible site, we have proponents, opponents, and neutral visitors on a regular basis. Recently, one stakeholder group that is opposed to MORC showed up on our site to dig a little dirt and actually left with a more favorable impression by what they saw.

The forums are an extension of who MORC is, even if not everyone posting in it is a MORC member.

Because of this, the forums need to mostly align with MORC's mission and vision. By far, they do. However, having anonymous contribution doesn't fit with who MORC is. MORC is a group that is about organizational and personal responsibility and following through on commitments. This makes us different than many groups, and certainly makes this different than many forums.

I personally am in favor of real names for people that choose post. Ultimately, the MORC board will have to decide over the winter what our policy is and effectively explain it once it's been created. If we choose to go with an enforced real name policy, your choice will be whether to continue posting or not.

Scott

...I'm also in the bike industry

[FSSS]

IMO this could all be solved by making your real name required for admin purposes only. Admin could see the real names, but no one else. After that it's personal choice.

People can be held accountable and can keep their privacy.

I have my reasons and they are legitimate to me.

I don't look forward to making that choice...


tp

[gopherhockey]

Well now, does this rule only apply to 'new guys' then?.... that doesn't seem right.... and appologizing after the fact is very ineffectual... the forum rules shouldn't require you to put yourself in that situation, only to hear "sorry that happened to you" later...


The difficulty is that it isn't a hard and set rule (yet). I haven't forced anything on him because we don't have anything formal enough to help me do it without possibly losing a good member. Same goes for you - the email was the best i could do.. beyond that we've let you continue posting under the alias as well. New or old the same actions apply... but I did say "for now" ;) You are right though, if we do chose to (formally) have it one way or another it can't be up to me to let people I know do their own thing...

I'm glad you brought all this up and have been active enough to discuss and give your opinions even in the face of a strong majority disagreeing.

I strongly believe in the full real names and believe we'll get that formalized. I hope it does not mean we lose anyone... but frankly I'm tired of doing such a large majority of work for a small minority of people that won't follow along. I'd rather be putting that work in for the others and not worry so much about a few less anonymous posters.

[The Hammer]

I say we leave the "exclusivity" for the roadies. It's the inclusivity that makes mountain biking what it is.

[bikeoutback]

Just for fun I googled my full name:
"Christopher Nichols received a Bachelors in Mathematics and Fine Arts from Colgate University. He went on to get a Masters of Architecture from Rice ..." I really need to ask for a raise apparently.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>"#36, Christopher Nichols, RB, Height: 5'10" Weight: 205 Year: So. Rushing, Receiving, Total. Date, Opponent, Att, Yds, TD, Avg, Rec, Yds, TD, Avg, Yds, TD ..." - 5'10, 205 man I wish and I play Running back, sweeet.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>"Christopher Nichols is just one of the over 1600 advisors currently in our system. ... Name: Christopher Nichols. Firm: Nichols Investment Advisory Services ..." - Investement advisor, I can't even manage my own money ;)

"Christopher Nichols, DDS - Medical Specialists - San Francisco, CA ... (http://sanfrancisco.citysearch.com/profile/903455/)" - A doctor too, where did I find the time
Damn, I'm a way cooler person on Google than I am in real life, what the hell did I do wrong?? Just having some fun, luckily it appears that I have a pretty common name. ;)

P.s. If I make it hope to meet some more people at Salem tonight.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Adam Hjelle]

Is MORC here to support all? I honestly don't know.... but if you make people pay to use your site, you have clearly made the decision that "NO" it is not here for all... This would GREATLY influence my decision as to whether I wanted to be a member of MORC...


I can honestly say that if MORC had been a membership only to post website I would not have joined. I joined MORC because I felt that not only were they doing good things for the MTB Community in this area, but also that it was a group that was inclusive and where I could meet others interested in the sport and potentially find some riding buddies. I would not have gotten that impression if it was a membership only to post forum.

Additionally, should MORC decide to go to a membership to post forum, I will need to re-evaluate my previous decision/commitment of my MORC membership. My concern here is that if I have this concern then others will as well. Why limit contribution to this site? Why alienate those who haven't made the decision to join MORC? What is the benefit to MORC by doing so? I guess I don't get it.

As for the real name think, I would like to be able to change my username and if I had it to do all over, I don't think I would put my real name out there. I am actually considering creating a different login to get my real name and username fixed.

[stoneage]

Googling mine (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Bill+O'Reilly&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) was no way as much fun!

[Adam Hjelle]

Just for fun I googled my full name:
"Christopher Nichols received a Bachelors in Mathematics and Fine Arts from Colgate University. He went on to get a Masters of Architecture from Rice ..." I really need to ask for a raise apparently.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>"#36, Christopher Nichols, RB, Height: 5'10" Weight: 205 Year: So. Rushing, Receiving, Total. Date, Opponent, Att, Yds, TD, Avg, Rec, Yds, TD, Avg, Yds, TD ..." - 5'10, 205 man I wish and I play Running back, sweeet</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Having a somewhat common name help anonimize yourself. My name on the other hand would definately get hits directly tied to me.

[The Hammer]

I can understand the concern about anonymous posters inflaming a thread. Single speeders suck.:laugh: I think that the most important thing is how we react when it happens. Bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road, that's what sidewalks are for.:D When the forum members get all bent out of shape and retaliate is when MORC looks bad. I'm going to go to ono on one and walk my bike through the front door.:) If everyone learned to laugh at themselves a little we'd see a lot less inflamed threads. I let my dogs run loose at T. Wirth. :crazy: Let's step back and remember why we are here, to have fun. 29ers are stupid. :crazy2: Relax. Pink bikes are lame.:banana: Braaaap

[bigwheel]

Googling mine (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Bill+O%27Reilly&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) was no way as much fun!

(Note: you don't have to be a liberal to dislike the other Bill O.)

Mine isn't as good as yours, but it is pretty good. This is the first item when you google my name:

In 1989, Robert Shepherd was appointed by Governor Bill Clinton to head Arkansas's so-called war on drugs. Prior to his appointment as the state's drug czar ...
www.idfiles.com/shepherd-4.htm

If you follow the link, you will see that my evil clone was allegedly a KKK leader, made shady deals with drug smugglers, and may have had something to do with the "train deaths" and drug smuggling related murders in Arkansas.

I swear, I have never been to Arkansas in my life.

[manual63]

People are people. They will get upset or offended if someone attacks what they like or do. I don't think we will ever be able to stop threads from being inflamed, and I don't think it's always a bad thing.

I don't like personal attacks on others or rips on bike shops, unless it's constructive. Name calling or just intentionally inflaming a thread for fun, which I know a few do on here a lot (won't mention names, but I know who they are), should not be a part of these forums. There is a fine line between being funny and intentionally inflaming a thread. If you are being funny, please use the emoticons, that's what they are for......to show expression.

As far as I am concerned......all posts by "soupboy" should be ignored. If we can do this, the forums will be just fine.......:D

[The Hammer]

People are people. There is a fine line between being funny and intentionally inflaming a thread. If you are being funny, please use the emoticons, that's what they are for......to show expression.


I've always been very stoic. How do you like my edit on my last post Shad?:D

[RoostRider]

The difficulty is that it isn't a hard and set rule (yet). I haven't forced anything on him because we don't have anything formal enough to help me do it without possibly losing a good member. Same goes for you - the email was the best i could do.

I hope you understand that I appreciate your email.... most forums would have just deleted my account without even telling me why... You did it in a very nice way and indicated thoroughly that you would preffer that I stay...

Until the rule is set, or I decide I don't want to stay here, I will stay at this site.... if the rule is set to require real names, you will also need to find a way to verify the real names (more work), or just let people put whatever they want in there (defeating the rule).... I will decide then what to do about being a member here....

Thanks for all your input

[gopherhockey]

As for the real name think, I would like to be able to change my username and if I had it to do all over, I don't think I would put my real name out there. I am actually considering creating a different login to get my real name and username fixed.

As a side note, I can rename your userid for you... just PM me what you want it to be - then be ready to re-sign in under that name... much easier for me than dealing with a duplicate, plus you retain all your previous posts etc.

[manual63]

I've always been very stoic. How do you like my edit on my last post Shad?:D

That's muuuuch better.....:p

[The Hammer]

You almost made me spit out my mocha! :) tin foil hat wearers, etc.)
Dude, you're way behind the times. No one uses tin foil hats. We put the tin foil on our bike helmets these days.:crazy: That was good humor about the mocha, made me laugh. Thanks

[manual63]

I am not sure I agree on the idea that your name should not be shown on here if you are in the bike industry. If credibility is to be held anywhere, using your real name here would be a plus. Unless you have plans to write stuff that would hurt your image as a person in the bike industry......and in that case, we might not want it posted on here anyway. You may not be able to post certain things that could effect your job, but that's the real world. I think these forums should be as close to the real world as possible.

Just my opinion. And yeah, I used to work in the bike industry.

[The Hammer]

I am not sure I agree on the idea that your name should not be shown on here if you are in the bike industry. If credibility is to be held anywhere, using your real name here would be a plus. Unless you have plans to write stuff that would hurt your image as a person in the bike industry......and in that case, we might not want it posted on here anyway. You may not be able to post certain things that could effect your job, but that's the real world. I think these forums should be as close to the real world as possible.

Just my opinion. And yeah, I used to work in the bike industry.

Yeah maybe. I should ask the big boss. I think a companies policy would take precedence though.
What I found most interesting is how senior forum members treat newbies. I felt like the girl in one of those reality shows that puts on a fat suit to see how the guys will treat her.

[Adam Hjelle]

What about just putting up a persons real first name and last initial? Less identifiable for those worried about privacy, etc, but also enough of an indentifier to keep people from flamming. Just a thought, and a potential amicable solution for all.

[manual63]

What about just putting up a persons real first name and last initial? Less identifiable for those worried about privacy, etc, but also enough of an indentifier to keep people from flamming. Just a thought, and a potential amicable solution for all.

You get rep points for a good suggestion.....:)

We are currently looking into all options right now. This is one of the suggestions we have already taken into account during our decision making. We, the MORC Board, have more than enough information and good input from forums users to go on.

I am not sure how long this will take, but I want to personally thank everyone for their input. This is a very important topic and am happy it was discussed. In the meantime, unless you really have something important to add, we might as well leave this thread as is. It will certainly stay open, just want to relax and settle everyone down until we come up with something. Again, thank you for all of your great input.

[Aaroneous]

What I found most interesting is how senior forum members treat newbies. I felt like the girl in one of those reality shows that puts on a fat suit to see how the guys will treat her.

I think that's because most of your posts so far make you sound like a jerk or a whiner or a whiny jerk.

[The Hammer]

I think that's because most of your posts so far make you sound like a jerk or a whiner or a whiny jerk.
Sorry. Thanks for the insight though. Does anyone else feel that way? I can try to show some personality on the forum but it will take some work since I don't have any personality off the forum.

[berrywise]

The other Scott Haraldson is a salesman at Donahue Harley-Davidson
Delano Sports Center. He races motocross in Minnesota in the 40+ age group.

http://www.donahuemotorsports.com/images/directorybios/Scott.jpg

[TML]

Hello, my name is Troy Lawrence. I am a native West Texan having grown up in Odessa until just four years ago. I am owned by an orange and white cat named Binky and a Russian Blue named Sasha. When I’m not tending to the cats I am a librarian for an elementary school in San Antonio, Texas. This is my fifteenth year in education and fourth in the library. Being a librarian, “Rocks!”

http://courses.unt.edu/efiga/TheFunnyBone/troy.jpg

[Aaroneous]

Sorry.

Ain't no thing, bro.

[gopherhockey]

Yeah maybe. I should ask the big boss. I think a companies policy would take precedence though.
What I found most interesting is how senior forum members treat newbies. I felt like the girl in one of those reality shows that puts on a fat suit to see how the guys will treat her.

Was she named The Hammer or Jack Rabbit? ;)

[The Hammer]

Was she named The Hammer or Jack Rabbit? ;)
Jack Hammer

[BrightYellow]

Slowly but surely we'll get all of your information... bwahahahah!

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15296

:D

[Burke]

Slowly but surely we'll get all of your information... bwahahahah!

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15296

:D

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ppgc]

Oh, it's not like I can't use my work account and look all you up on Westlaw.com...Not that I would ever do that. Anyways what I am saying is I already have all your information and I sit on top of it on a daily basis. muhahahahaha.... :)

[Trevize1138]

I don't see the big deal about using your real name on these forums (obviously, as I'm now using mine.) I mean, sure, MORC sells our names, email addresses, credit card numbers and pins to spammers and hackers in Asia and uses the money to buy booze. But, I gotta tell ya, those "male enhancement" pills sorta work!

[seberly]

This is a link to the message board on the Minnesota Cycling Federation Site:

http://mcf.net/forum/

The rules are right there in front for naming.

[soupboy]

...resolve the issue of people simply using the wrong name.

I really don't see what the big deal is. Sure, people will troll and abuse and abusively troll.

MTBR seems to be a pretty viable site w/o requiring the level of disclosure people are so up in arms about here. You are supposed to give your real full first and last name to the administrator but I suppose you could fake that too [if you're predisposed to such silliness].

I'm not a techie, but isn't the IP addy all you need to monitor use? Sure, I suppose there are ways around that too but you can't be spending all your time as a volunteer organization worrying about a couple bad apples.

Do people have concerns about posting IP addys publicly as a general practice or on oft-heated threads such as MTBRs Political thread? Seems like the most efficient way of controlling users w/o things getting to out of lines. If they're naughty you can suspend or ban their use from that IP. It won't stop them but I would imagine that it would make posting an exponentially more severe PITA.

This is a link to the message board on the Minnesota Cycling Federation Site:

http://mcf.net/forum/

The rules are right there in front for naming.

[manual63]

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This is ours. It doesn't mention anything about screen names or real names. This will be added when the board decides on something. It is pretty similar as the one Steve posted.

[soupboy]

but it's all relative. 1" + 1" doubles the pleasure. Adding 1" to a sub sandwich kinda gets lost in the shuffle.

But, I gotta tell ya, those "male enhancement" pills sorta work!