Did you clear the new log at Lebanon?

[gopherhockey]

There is a new 2' log step in the XX loop at Lebanon (toward the end of the trail). I would like some feedback on it.

The idea is that we keep the trail challenging, but not so much so that only 2% of the riders can clear it. Safety is always an issue as well.

We can leave it as is, lower it, or even provide an alternate.

Personally I don't mind a challenge.. heck, I put in most the obstacles in the XX. However, I also don't mind having it a place where people can work up to obstacles and not be forced into them. Examples are the bridges, the camelback, and some of the tougher routes through rock gardens.

It was tough because nobody had a bike to test it, so now we need feedback.

Only provide feedback if you have actually ridden it.

[dave t]

It's not 2 feet. It's not even knee high on me and that is only 20 inches. I bet the face of the log is 14 inches tall.
I hope to get out tonight to get a shot at it before it gets chewed up or "fixed". I will hit it a few different ways and let you know what I find out.

You have to have faith in the abilities of the riders that get that far into XX. If a rider gets to that log without stepping off or bypassing anything, they won't have any problem at all. If they already had to walk over some stuff, what's one more time?

The trail needs a few of these (and bigger if you ask me) challenges. This one is less risky than many other trail features including some in the intermediate loop.

[bigwheel]

Judging by the photo: http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1603&size=big

My saw has a 20 inch bar, and it looks like about 4 inches of blade sticking out. I don't know if I have any blade showing on the motor side (doubt it), but that would make the log about 16 inches in diam.

[ppgc]

Judging by the photo: http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1603&size=big

My saw has a 20 inch bar, and it looks like about 4 inches of blade sticking out. I don't know if I have any blade showing on the motor side (doubt it), but that would make the log about 16 inches in diam.

Where are your safety glasses Mr. Volunteer of the Year? :) Looks like a fun log to attempt, can't wait to try it this weekend.

[manual63]

Don't forget this if you need some pointers getting over it.

http://www.shadconcepts.com/howtos/OverTheLog.html

[bigwheel]

Don't forget this if you need some pointers getting over it.

http://www.shadconcepts.com/howtos/OverTheLog.html

Ted's Log is more of a step-up, rather than a log-over. The far side is fairly flat, and level with the top of the log. It is sort-of like the drop-off log in the XX, only in reverse.

[Ish]

How high is it compared to the big rock in the Dream II before the double? It can't be that high. I say leave it.

[manual63]

Ted's Log is more of a step-up, rather than a log-over. The far side is fairly flat, and level with the top of the log. It is sort-of like the drop-off log in the XX, only in reverse.

That's okay. Many of the same techniques apply, especially body position when going over. Some people, like myself, like to pull up and hop over logs, even if they are rollable. I guess I have to come see it, sounds cool. Thanks for helping make it.

[bigwheel]

How high is it compared to the big rock in the Dream II before the double? It can't be that high. I say leave it.

If you take the rock on the right side, then this about the same. (EDIT: It is smaller than that. More like the left side of the rock) The things that make it different are:
1: It ends on a ledge, whereas you can use the down-side gravity of the dream2 rock to help you keep moving and get your back wheel over.
2: The dream2 rock is preceeded by a hill, so you don't have to pedal at all when approaching it. There is a slight downhill going to the Ted's log, but you will probably have to pedal to hit it with some speed.

We really don't know how difficult or easy it will be. That's why John has this survey. My prediction is that it will be doable by at least half the people that ride the XX, although not necessarily on their first try. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to make it, and I don't consider myself to be a skilled rider.

We'll find out tomorrow night under the warm glow of halogen. :cool:

[gopherhockey]

It's not 2 feet. It's not even knee high on me and that is only 20 inches. I bet the face of the log is 14 inches tall.
I hope to get out tonight to get a shot at it before it gets chewed up or "fixed". I will hit it a few different ways and let you know what I find out.

You have to have faith in the abilities of the riders that get that far into XX. If a rider gets to that log without stepping off or bypassing anything, they won't have any problem at all. If they already had to walk over some stuff, what's one more time?

The trail needs a few of these (and bigger if you ask me) challenges. This one is less risky than many other trail features including some in the intermediate loop.

You made it pretty clear last night where you stood ;)

Standing there last night it looked like a 3' log to me, so 2' was my trying to dumb it down in my head... hehe. You do have to take the size of the log and add at least a few inches though - the ground at the bottom of the log is not level so when you come up to it there is a slight uphill. In fact there was a few inches of air between the bottom of the log and the nearest part of the trail. I think this is what makes it look worse than it probably is.

Normally when we build things they ride much easier than they look on foot... but I am looking forward to feedback.

The one thing we all noted is that this thing is at an area where most riders are already trying to catch some wind. It really doesn't have much of an area for momentum, and its around a slight left corner - so you aren't going to be flying down hill and seeing it up ahead to do a lot of mental prep work.

Those not reading our posts might find themselves quite surprised by it. But again, its hard to say when you are standing there looking at it.

[Briman]

I did not get enough seed to get over it. I spun my back tire on the edge of the log. It doesn't seem that tough to clear if you have the right speed. This was my first time out in about a week and a half. Now I know what I have to do next time. I think it rocks, leave it. It gives me another challenge to better my skills.http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[TB0NE]

Just rode it today. I wasn't even expecting it to come up that close but I just popped my front wheel up and rode it. It's not too difficult, especially the 2nd and 3rd time through. I say make it BIGGER! =):banana:

[timmy]

Did 4 laps today and cleared it every time. I think it should stay the way it is. It was nice having something different out there to ride.
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[tedsti]

No problem. I did a double willie grab - fakie to can-can up it. It isn't that bad, the big ring didn't touch it either.

[gopherhockey]

Sounds pretty positive so far!

[Ishmail]

With 3 days to go before the Fat Tire, my bike is dialed - riding smooth as butter. I figure I'll do a couple of full loops at Lebby just to keep the legs pumping. The day after trail maintenance you couldn't ask for better conditions. Well that was until I hit Ted's log. Long story short, I clear the log - but not without some carnage. I get off to look at my bike and sure enough my 3 week old "bomb proof" Surly chain ring is caved in...

I'm riding a single with tons of clearance, I gotta think people on geared set ups are going to be having problems with their big rings hitting. I love the XX and like challenges as much as the next guy, but I think that obstacle needs to be toned down a little bit.

I've got 2 days to hook up with a 104X32t...:sick:

[gopherhockey]

With 3 days to go before the Fat Tire, my bike is dialed - riding smooth as butter. I figure I'll do a couple of full loops at Lebby just to keep the legs pumping. The day after trail maintenance you couldn't ask for better conditions. Well that was until I hit Ted's log. Long story short, I clear the log - but not without some carnage. I get off to look at my bike and sure enough my 3 week old "bomb proof" Surly chain ring is caved in...

I'm riding a single with tons of clearance, I gotta think people on geared set ups are going to be having problems with their big rings hitting. I love the XX and like challenges as much as the next guy, but I think that obstacle needs to be toned down a little bit.

I've got 2 days to hook up with a 104X32t...:sick:

Thanks for the feedback! We definitely aren't out there to break bike parts.. we'll be riding it tonight and will go back out later and tweak it if necessary.

Feedback like this helps!

[dave t]

:laugh: :laugh: You made it pretty clear last night where you stood ;)

I had to. I needed to defend the log. Ted couldn't do it alone. You looked like you were picturing 50 lawyers with nets and handcuffs (and a bent chainring) chasing you down the trail toward the devil in a wheelchair wearing a neck brace.

It's really not that tough to clear. I cleared it 4 out of 4 and used a different method each time to get a better feel for what more people would think. !-3 were on the same lap so energy wasn't a factor but it was getting kind of dark for 4 and I took it easy. I rolled the approach, and just pulled the front over and a quick pedal and unweight the back and I was up without a spin.

The one I just about lost was when I only pulled the front 3/4 of the way up. It rolled over fine but I spun a bit with the back wheel. I lunged it up so a rider taking the timid approach would likely not make it but I can't see it causing a crash.

It's position makes the full on madman hop a bit tricky but the guys going for that should be able to handle it just fine.

I would like to see an option there with another log 5 feet up the trail like we joked about tuesday.

[iceskier]

Perfect for the XX Loop. It is rather easy if you can unweight front and then rear of your bike. Cleaned it a couple of times without problem and for people that are trying to improve their skills, it is a good challenge.

I can see if you were to just pull up the front wheel, you could hit your chainring, but the method to clear it is much like that of the big rock in Dream II. Another one after it would be a fun twist.:banana:

[manual63]

I love the XX and like challenges as much as the next guy, but I think that obstacle needs to be toned down a little bit.

I would hope not. Hitting the chainring is part of the deal. I don't think something should be toned down for this reason. It's not like people are forced to ride it. You can pop up the rear wheel as you go over to avoid chainring damage, or run a bashguard and huck that big ring....you don't need it. Who uses a big ring doing off-road anyway???.....:)

[destrago]

....run a bashguard and huck that big ring....you don't need it. Who uses a big ring doing off-road anyway???.....:)

Um... I do. Not offroads, but I ride to the trails and once I hit pavement I'm out onto the big chainring, even on my Fisher 293. Bob made the same suggestion, but even the top gear on the 2nd ring is slow on the road.

-Tony

[manual63]

Um... I do. Not offroads, but I ride to the trails and once I hit pavement I'm out onto the big chainring, even on my Fisher 293. Bob made the same suggestion, but even the top gear on the 2nd ring is slow on the road.

-Tony

I understand this, but I still don't think something on the trail should be changed because a few people use a big ring for riding road. I ride road on a singlespeed riding 2:1, so I think it's an option people choose to do and the trails should not be changed because some people are worried about their big ring....that's all. Otherwise, we are never really going to be able to make anything bigger than 11 inches high or maybe not even that, since the BB height is around 11 inches on most XC bikes. Keep in mind, this is the XX Loop....chainrings are going to be at risk here, in more places than one.

[bigwheel]

Um... I do. Not offroads, but I ride to the trails and once I hit pavement I'm out onto the big chainring, even on my Fisher 293. Bob made the same suggestion, but even the top gear on the 2nd ring is slow on the road.

-Tony

If you threw away the big chain ring and replaced it with a bash guard, you'd be stuck with 32/11 as your highest gear. Now some arithmetic:

32/11 * 29inches * 3.14 = 265 inches/pedalrev = 22 ft/pedalrev

At 100 rpm (fast, but comfortable), you would go 2200 ft/min = 25 mph
At 140 rpm (my max for short bursts) you would go 35 mph

To me, this seems good enough to get you to/from the trailhead.

Throw away that useless sprocket and replace it with a Race Face rock guard.

[gopherhockey]

I understand this, but I still don't think something on the trail should be changed because a few people use a big ring for riding road. I ride road on a singlespeed riding 2:1, so I think it's an option people choose to do and the trails should not be changed because some people are worried about their big ring....that's all. Otherwise, we are never really going to be able to make anything bigger than 11 inches high or maybe not even that, since the BB height is around 11 inches on most XC bikes. Keep in mind, this is the XX Loop....chainrings are going to be at risk here, in more places than one.

I think I can clearly state at this point that we would not dumb down the log itself. It sounds like it is an obstacle most can do, so I won't be entertaining the option of lowering it.

A ride-around is always an option, and I don't want people seeing that as dumbing it down or making it easy. Its just an option we provide around the more difficult areas and its all IMBA and Dakota approved. I'm not saying we'll even need this, but if we do anything at this point I might see building more of a log ramp off to one side for a semi-challenge to those still working their way up AND providing us that safe alternate route. There are thousands of reasons to do one, but they just don't make sense for every obstacle and log we have...

I will try make some kind of judgement tonight when we ride...

Either way for those that love the challenge don't worry, it sounds like a keeper.

[ApValWheels]

Just got back from a late lunch time ride. Perfect weather and near perfect trail conditions. I don't usually ride XX (this was probably my third time this year), but it was such a great day out that I decided to spend a bit more time on the trails. I seldom make it through XX without unclipping at least once, and I made it over this log first try, no problem. Had a slight scrape of the big chainring, but it didn't slow me down. This seems like a perfect fit for the XX trail.

[At the Gates 2121]

Well for me I know I will clear this peice at leb just like everything else out there keep it in It will separate the men from the boys. Oh yeah I will do this for the first time in the dark just to make it harder on myself. If it is in the XX it is there for a reason any whiners whine somewhere else. I have ruined many of big rings on trails never cried about it they are now art on my wall of broken bike barts in my apartment.

[tedsti]

There are plenty of places you can hit your big-ring on ROCKS in the XX loop. There are/were plenty of places I use to dig my big-ring into logs. I don't think that big-ring to log contact is justification for removing an obstacle especially when it can be avoided with some practice.

big-ring vs log - big-ring wins 99 out of 100 times
big-ring vs rocks - big ring almost always loses.

Ishmail - I believe that REI stocks 104 x 32 salsa single speed rings.

[bigwheel]

Now we have a lot of pressure to clean Ted's Log on the first try tonight so that we can also check the first box.

[tedsti]

I need to bring a hammer and nails so I can write my name on the front of the log with all the reflectors on the trail!!!!!

[mara]

if we do anything at this point I might see building more of a log ramp off to one side

I like this idea. I can ride most things in the XX, but can't yet lift my front wheel a foot or more off the ground. The whole learning to ride a rigid fork thing is a bit easier said than done.

[Magic]

Bob, I run a 34t. up front. So you can go bigger than a 32t. And when I was racing MTB's, I used my big ring all the time on the trails. Now that I'm only using two chainrings, I run a 34t and 20t up front with 11-32 or 11-34 in the rear. It's all personal choice in my mind.

[bigwheel]

Bob, I run a 34t. up front. So you can go bigger than a 32t. And when I was racing MTB's, I used my big ring all the time on the trails. Now that I'm only using two chainrings, I run a 34t and 20t up front with 11-32 or 11-34 in the rear. It's all personal choice in my mind.

Thanks Troy, but those calcs were for Tony. I'm perfectly happy with 32 as my largest chainring. Even with that, I seldom use my smaller two rear sprockets. However, I am almost never riding the road on that bike. I was just trying to convice Tony that he doesn't really need that third front sprocket.

[destrago]

If you threw away the big chain ring and replaced it with a bash guard, you'd be stuck with 32/11 as your highest gear. Now some arithmetic:

32/11 * 29inches * 3.14 = 265 inches/pedalrev = 22 ft/pedalrev

At 100 rpm (fast, but comfortable), you would go 2200 ft/min = 25 mph
At 140 rpm (my max for short bursts) you would go 35 mph

To me, this seems good enough to get you to/from the trailhead.

Throw away that useless sprocket and replace it with a Race Face rock guard.

Don't try to confuse me with the facts!!! :D


-Tony

[Ish]

I was just trying to convice Tony that he doesn't really need that third front sprocket.

Hey Bob - I have been trying to convince someone the same thing. Can you run the calc. on a 26" with a 32x11 at 100rpm? I'm not so good with math!

I know I can get my above 20mph no problem.

[bigwheel]

Hey Bob - I have been trying to convince someone the same thing. Can you run the calc. on a 26" with a 32x11 at 100rpm? I'm not so good with math!

I know I can get my above 20mph no problem.

32/11 * 26 * 3.14 = 237.5 inches = 19.8 ft/rev

19.8ft * 100 rev/min * 60 min/hour * 1/5280 miles/ft = 22.5 miles/hour

[JHM]

If you use your measured circumference instead of using 26*pi you may even go faster!

[bigwheel]

If you use your measured circumference instead of using 26*pi you may even go faster!

Maybe. I don't know the actual circumference so I just took the lazy way out. Close enough for an estimate.

[Ish]

werd! I'll round to 25mph. Thanks guys!

[homebrewbiker]

I know I read post that someone used a method of just plowing into large logs and then use the chain ring to climb over the top of the log. Of course you probably have to hit near the top and have pedals in a good position so that do not start out in a position in which there is nowhere to go.

If you are not going to use that outer ring anyway might as well put it to good use ...:D

[Danimal]

Ahhh keep it, I'm an outta shape fuutz. By the time I hit the XX I'm pretty much shot anyway but still manage to get over things, it's the hills I have issues with which is more of an endurance / strength thing. The technical stuff I love so keep it.

[gopherhockey]

Well, we took the log at night... it was surprisingly easy to get over. I just rolled the thing and got over it. Not anywhere near as hard as it looks.

[transplant]

I haven't seen it yet, but personal opinion is "keep it". If I can't clear it now, I'd at least like to be challenged.

[bigwheel]

Well, we took the log at night... it was surprisingly easy to get over. I just rolled the thing and got over it. Not anywhere near as hard as it looks.

I think everyone made it clean last night, with the exception of Ken, who only did a dab at the top. Not bad for a guy riding a fixed gear bike.

It was funny before the ride, watching everyone in the parking lot practicing hopping their bikes, getting psyched for what turned out to be just another log crossing.

[funky-funky-chicken]

I think everyone made it clean last night, with the exception of Ken, who only did a dab at the top. Not bad for a guy riding a fixed gear bike.

I'll get over it. I felt a bit like I lost my mojo last night. Once I put a little more air in my tires, the second lap was a little more on. Riding in the dark fixed does add a bit to the challenge... Not as easy to see a good line through some of the obstacles.

[Ish]

Ken was throwing down some mad skills with his rigid fixie last night!!!

made me ashamed to be riding a 5" travel bike.

[manual63]

In the future it's probably a good idea not to have the names of the riders listed on a poll like this. I just got to see who all the wennies are....:D

[bigwheel]

In the future it's probably a good idea not to have the names of the riders listed on a poll like this. I just got to see who all the wennies are....:D

Click on one of the totals on the right side of the graph.

[bigwheel]

Ken was throwing down some mad skills with his rigid fixie last night!!!

made me ashamed to be riding a 5" travel bike.

Yeah, especially since he had no problem keeping up with us in every section; fast or technical.

[Rich]

Hey it was a great ride today! I haven't been able to get over to Leb for while and I not only cleared the log, but all of the other obstacles I hadn't cleaned before too. I finally made the camel back stunt, jumped off the big log drop before the big rock, cleared the table top, and rode off the end of the log ride.

I know that many of you ride these all the time, but it was a milestone ride for me today!

Thanks to all the trail workers. I started riding this trail in 1978, and rode it off and on for many years, but until June of this year had not ridden Lebanon for several years. I love it!

Rich in South St Paul.

[gopherhockey]

Hey it was a great ride today! I haven't been able to get over to Leb for while and I not only cleared the log, but all of the other obstacles I hadn't cleaned before too. I finally made the camel back stunt, jumped off the big log drop before the big rock, cleared the table top, and rode off the end of the log ride.

I know that many of you ride these all the time, but it was a milestone ride for me today!

Great to hear it! Congrats on clearing it all!

[jeffgude]

John - Bob - Ted:

Please indicate for the record whether the new log step is supposed to have any sort of helper log in front of it. I had a conversation with someone out there today who seemed quite sure that an 8" helper log belonged on the downhill side to spare expensive chainrings....

[Ish]

Based on our ride last night without the helper log, my input would be that one is not necessary......easy for me to say, I have a bash guard.

If there are those that are having chainring problems, could the helper log only be put on say half the log so people have a choice of using it or not?

thanks,

Craig

[tedsti]

There was originally a small helper log in front. Someone took it upon themselves to add another helper log to totally dumb it down. This action was reprimanded by the removal of all helper logs. It is still possible to get over the log without hitting the big ring if you hop the front and then the rear tire. It may not be easy, but this is the XX loop.

The verdict is that the log is ridable without the leading logs and will stay leading log free. We had to clear out a whole pile of junk that someone had piled up in front of the log last night.

If you can't ride it, just walk your bike over it. Just because you can't make it over an obstacle doesn't mean that others can't. If we start down this road, the first beginner that rides the trail will mean that we have to pave the whole thing.

[gopherhockey]

If you can't ride it, just walk your bike over it. Just because you can't make it over an obstacle doesn't mean that others can't. If we start down this road, the first beginner that rides the trail will mean that we have to pave the whole thing.

This is a good point. Our history has been if people mess with things to make them easier, we'll turn around and make them even harder yet.

We were considering a ride-around on this log, but its so easy to get over (compared to how it looks) that I just don't know if its necessary.

If we do, it will be to one side - not as a whole log in front making the whole thing easier.

[gopherhockey]

Rode tonight and noticed there is already an alternate line forming. If you approach the log to the right and cut to the left just as you get too it you can nearly ride up and over on the edge of a dirt pile (that once held a small tree that since got knocked over). This line should be sufficient for those not wanting to bash chains.

I took it on one of my laps and its actually a bit tricky right now in a whole different way.

[R.A.M.]

Don't forget this if you need some pointers getting over it.

http://www.shadconcepts.com/howtos/OverTheLog.htmlThat was an awesome how-to. I hope you do clinics of sorts or give pointers on the trail. Bunny hopping is a huge part of clearing any obstacle. Folks, once you get that front tire over something, you now have better control of what the bike is going to do and where you want it to go, vs. just running into something and hoping to make it. With forward momentum and the right speed, the rear will 99% of the time follow. Shad, if you dont mind an addition; after getting comfortable with this type of stunt, you can eventually pull up enough on your front wheel as the rear comes over peventing an over the bars situation. Again, awesome post.

[bigwheel]

Another technique.

Get a 29er and remove the big chaing ring. Then just close your eyes and ride right over the sucker. :crazy:

[biking_stickman]

Is there supposed to be a medium sized log in front of this?

I rode yesterday and there was a loose (~2' long) log in front of the original log. My rear wheel hit the loose log and I felt it move. This seemed dangerous to me...especially if someone is close behind.

[manual63]

You guys made this thing seem huge.....

Hitting chainrings and all that. I noticed it after I was riding over it. I was like....oh....this must be that new log thing they are talking about.....:p:)

[DMonkey]

I just ride right up the middle of it, the first time, would of had it but smacked my ped. - 2nd time, it was a piece of cake..

It's not that big..

[tedsti]

There are not suppose to be any logs in front of it. People keep adding logs and we keep taking them away....

Is there supposed to be a medium sized log in front of this?

I rode yesterday and there was a loose (~2' long) log in front of the original log. My rear wheel hit the loose log and I felt it move. This seemed dangerous to me...especially if someone is close behind.

[syntaxjunkie]

I think I just voted to change it, but I was all over the place the day I rode it, and I think I'd already bent my front brake rotor. It's probably fine, and I probably just sucked. Leave it and I'll find a new way to screw it up again soon.

[E36/5]

Make it harder! :p

[timmy]

I was out there today and someone added a nice large log in front of it. I figured since I was out there helping with trail work the day it was put in, it was ok for me to go ahead and remove the "unauthorized" log that was placed in front. Hopefully that was the right move, if not, I apologize.:)

[gopherhockey]

Yup, good job removing that.

I was out there today and someone added a nice large log in front of it. I figured since I was out there helping with trail work the day it was put in, it was ok for me to go ahead and remove the "unauthorized" log that was placed in front. Hopefully that was the right move, if not, I apologize.:)

[scubanut]

Haven't cleared it yet unless I use the dirt on the left side. Don't change it though, I'll get over it eventually.

[mcarples]

Can someone take a good picture (or two/three) of this log?? I would love to see what all the fuss is about.

[bigwheel]

To whoever keeps "dumbing down" the log:

Folks, this is the Advanced (XX) trail. It is *supposed* to be difficult. If you can't ride over an obstacle, then walk your bike over it. (like I often do on the Camelback bridge) If that is too difficult then maybe you should consider sticking to an easier trail.

But don't go messing it up for everyone else, just because you are not a good enough rider to clear it.

[manual63]

Hmmm...now I don't know if this log was there or not when I rode it. It seemed super easy to me when I rode it.....I just pedeled right up it like all the others.

[soupboy]

...I rode it fine. I just seemed annoying...like those g'darn logs right before the last rock garden.

I WILL remove those one day.

They are lame and pose no challenge other than annoying me.

[PEDRO]

my nine year old brother cleared it

enough said

[berrywise]

I was out there riding with my grandma (ripe age of 87) and she cleared it on her Schwinn Varsity so I don't see what the fuss is about.

I say there are enough logs already and it should go.

[flatlander]

I'd vote "Keep it even though I haven't cleaned it yet" if I could.

I've tried a couple times and haven't gotten over it yet :hit: , but there are lots of other obstacles in both the Expert Loop and in the XX Loop that used to hang me up, too. I'm hoping to clear it before the snow flies.

It's been pretty entertaining reading all the posts in this thread, and I just want to take a second to thank all the people who've worked on Lebanon Hills.

[soupboy]

...get some mo...loft front end...don't stop pedaling until you've cleared it. Log cleared.

[helmut buster]

57% cleared that bad boy the first time??

I guess this illustrates the caliber of the denizens of this forum.

Of 4 laps, I cleared the 3rd & 4th time. I guess I took me longer than most to find the line. It's a nice challenge. It may not have helped that this the first ride in a month as last time out, I missed a line through the last xx rock garden and my right thumb took the fall. After a painful ride out and several hours of ER consideration I decided there was nothing that could be done for it. I'm still not certain as things are not quite right, but I'm back on the horse now and trying to get what I can before the bike trails change to ski trails.

RIDE TO RIDE.
kg

[tedsti]

We now have an added challenge. There is a new tree down running along the right side of the trail right before the log. It definitely tightens up the approach.

[soupboy]

...the g'dam camelsack got me today. First time in a while. Just when I start thinking of it as a mere speedbump again...whammo, OTB, bent derailleur hanger, deeply bruised pride. I did add a new OTB line for myself...this time right. Not as painful as into the trees on the left.

The track was in great shape today. I was not.

[helmut buster]

Ahhhhh, a NEW, NEW tree, that makes me feel a little better about being in the "make it sometimes" minority .

RIDE SOME MORE!
kg

[gopherhockey]

We now have an added challenge. There is a new tree down running along the right side of the trail right before the log. It definitely tightens up the approach.

Hmmm... maybe we move it around a bit and have 2 monster logs in a row!!!

... ok, maybe not until people get the hang of the existing one. Sounds like its creating a challenge out there.

I love to hate that new log...

[soupboy]

I was riding it fine until the "helper" log was removed and the big freakin downed tree took away a decent approach angle. More of a lunge and bash move now.

[gopherhockey]

I was riding it fine until the "helper" log was removed and the big freakin downed tree took away a decent approach angle. More of a lunge and bash move now.

We'll have to remove that tree - there was not a good approach to the log in the first place, no sense making it worse.

[Ish]

I don't know - that downed tree makes it more interesting........at least now it is a challenge. I say leave it!!!

[ApValWheels]

I just got back from a ride and saw this downed tree alongside the approach to the big log. I thought it really added character to the trail....almost like having a guard rail there. It didn't cause me problem getting over the log. And as others have said - the XX section is supposed to be challenging. I hope the guardrail stays in place.

[KleinCrazy]

I just got back from a ride and saw this downed tree alongside the approach to the big log. I thought it really added character to the trail....almost like having a guard rail there. It didn't cause me problem getting over the log. And as others have said - the XX section is supposed to be challenging. I hope the guardrail stays in place.

As I rode up to it I almost screwed it up as I was trying to figure out how to ride up that new "guardrail" log.

I made it over no problem, stopped and kinda looked at the log. If it is strong enough, there should be no reason why we couldn't shave off the top a little, maybe put some 2X4's on it and make a nice little ladder climb around the log step-up.

I am guessing however that the log just is not strong enough to do it.

Worth looking into however.

P.S. If anyone cares I don't even touch the log going over it. Hop the front wheel up over it let it touch down and then Hop the rear wheel up over it. With enough speed it is just a fast uphill bunny hop and it never slows you down.

[destrago]

Today was the first time since we put that log in that I got to ride it!! Let me say that it would be absolutely no problem without that downed tree next to it. With the downed tree it's actually rather exciting trying to get lined up, not hit the 'guide rail', and prep for the hop. I'm actually voting that we don't even remove that downed tree - that thing adds a good challenge and a TON of character to this obstacle.

-Tony

[At the Gates 2121]

Today was the first time since we put that log in that I got to ride it!! Let me say that it would be absolutely no problem without that downed tree next to it. With the downed tree it's actually rather exciting trying to get lined up, not hit the 'guide rail', and prep for the hop. I'm actually voting that we don't even remove that downed tree - that thing adds a good challenge and a TON of character to this obstacle.

-Tony


who cares if it is in gthe doublex let it be let it be let it be it may be tough for the next guy let it be:banana:

[gopherhockey]

I don't know - that downed tree makes it more interesting........at least now it is a challenge. I say leave it!!!

As long as it doesn't block run-off we can leave it. Logs on the side of trails aren't often a good idea, but I do like how they look.

It sounds like maybe some interesting options that could be done with it... maybe worth a survey next trailwork session. I kinda like what James said about doing some kind of alternate on it.

[At the Gates 2121]

[QUOTE=gopherhockey]As long as it doesn't block run-off we can leave it. Logs on the side of trails aren't often a good idea, but I do like how they look.


goody goody gum drops:banana: :banana:

[bigwheel]

As long as it doesn't block run-off we can leave it. Logs on the side of trails aren't often a good idea, but I do like how they look.
goody goody gum drops:banana: :banana:

Sorry folks, but the trail fairies already moved the second log. It was blocking enough of the trail that people were riding off to the left side.

[TB0NE]

Sorry folks, but the trail fairies already moved the second log. It was blocking enough of the trail that people were riding off to the left side.

According to the memo I got, "There is no trail fairy!" :crazy:

[Uncle Leo]

So I attempted the log for the first time on Saturday on my 2nd lap. Lifted the front wheel, put my weight forward, felt the big ring nick the log, brought the back wheel up . . . . Holy s&*^%^t, I'm over! Too bad I was so surprised I forgot to pedal.

So I guess I would say I made it over about 75%.

[syntaxjunkie]

According to the memo I got, "There is no trail fairy!" :crazy:
There is a trail fairy, but I have it from a reliable source that he is retired from trail maintenance and upkeep. At least trail maintenance and upkeep performed in wings and spandex.

[mara]

There is a trail fairy, but I have it from a reliable source that he is retired from trail maintenance and upkeep. At least trail maintenance and upkeep performed in wings and spandex.

Wait until Halloween, my friend. You may be quite unpleasantly surprised. . .

[syntaxjunkie]

Wait until Halloween, my friend. You may be quite unpleasantly surprised. . .
Only if your plan involves a rag soaked in ether, a roll of duct tape, the trunk of a car and me waking up at a Halloween Party I don't remember being invited to...

[mara]

Only if your plan involves a rag soaked in ether, a roll of duct tape, the trunk of a car and me waking up at a Halloween Party I don't remember being invited to...

:laugh: Now that you mention it, that's a much better idea than my original plan. . . hmmmm, anyone willing to loan me a their car for an evening?

And please, don't think I would be so, so James Bond as to use ether. I'm a down to earth sort of girl -- I'd just hit you with my Pulaski ;)

[manual63]

:laugh: Now that you mention it, that's a much better idea than my original plan. . . hmmmm, anyone willing to loan me a their car for an evening?

And please, don't think I would be so, so James Bond as to use ether. I'm a down to earth sort of girl -- I'd just hit you with my Pulaski ;)

I will loan you mine, right after I exchange licence plates from another car.....:p

[Rich]

I rode the trail tonight and there was a fairly large log in front of the "new" log. It doesn't do much though. I was still able to do the uphill hop and didn't even touch the added piece.

I guess I just don't understand why people feel the need to try and make the trail easier if they can't ride it. Isn't the challenge of the obstacles part of the reason to ride here? Road rides (or paved bike trails!!) are always an option if the obstacles are too much.

[Buck]

It's b/c off roadies some times stumble on to real trail features.

That being said, I can hop the whole thing, should put a couple in a row like a bike length and a half a part up the hill that would be sic!
L8R
Buck

[KleinCrazy]

Muhahahaha,


I have a rock out at Salem that is at least as high as the Leb log to climb and has a tougher approach.

The plan is to work on the run up to it, did it down a little and see if I can build a 2-3 foot rock step-up (optional) on our nice little beginner trail here in the southeast metro.

P.S. Beautiful night riding conditions tonight. 12 of us on the trail.

[jjrsds]

No problem on the log tonight for me nice work Ted. Keep it there.

[R.A.M.]

Excellent point. Someone going 'off-road' is probably not just dabbling in this. They have a desire to test the waters and are accepting the conditions as they come, or they don't return. Unfortunately, there are riders out there who put too much weight and focus on equipment and damage. ITS AN OFF ROAD TRAIL. Someone concerned about their chainrings is probably more of a roadie and if a rider happened to be that darn fast to warrant using a big ring out there, should take a step back, realize they are not on pavement and step up some other areas of bike handling.I rode the trail tonight and there was a fairly large log in front of the "new" log. It doesn't do much though. I was still able to do the uphill hop and didn't even touch the added piece.

I guess I just don't understand why people feel the need to try and make the trail easier if they can't ride it. Isn't the challenge of the obstacles part of the reason to ride here? Road rides (or paved bike trails!!) are always an option if the obstacles are too much.

[R.A.M.]

Enough said, I vote you to head up any future work at Theo. Instead of jumping it or walking it, riders want to remove or make easier an obstacle so it doesn't throw their rhythm. I say, accept the challenge!To whoever keeps "dumbing down" the log:

Folks, this is the Advanced (XX) trail. It is *supposed* to be difficult. If you can't ride over an obstacle, then walk your bike over it. (like I often do on the Camelback bridge) If that is too difficult then maybe you should consider sticking to an easier trail.

But don't go messing it up for everyone else, just because you are not a good enough rider to clear it.

[R.A.M.]

After reading the first couple of pages, I decided to respect the request to not have an opinion until I rode it. I checked Shads how-to and think that I was a bit excited for that to be the actual log out there. I was there a week ago and today and I guess I don't know what log these seven pages of forum is about. I guess that puts me in either the blind rider category or the 'There is NO challenge category'. I noticed a couple new logs right at the beginning of the single X section (Respect) and a larger log towards the end of XX section where the new erosion logs were placed right before going under the overhanging tree. If the first log in this row of logs is the one everyone is talking about, then I am in the latter of the two options I listed above. If riders made it this far, this should not be a problem. I had to joke with my buddy that maybe the tree that we ride under towards the end of XX was the log in question. That seemed to be the only remotely realistic 'log' that may pose ANY challenge to a rider out there riding in an ADVANCED portion of the trail. I suggest that riders having problems with this type of obstacle revisit the basics of riding and start bunny hopping...curbs, logs, branches, rocks, etc. This will enhance your abilities and capabilities to overcome such horrific obstacles that may steal a tooth or two from a chainring that has no business out there anyway. I suppose staying on pavement is your next viable option. Off road bicycling should be a challenge!!!!! Leave it that way.

[FSSS]

Enough said, I vote you to head up any future work at Theo. Instead of jumping it or walking it, riders want to remove or make easier an obstacle so it doesn't throw their rhythm. I say, accept the challenge!

Bob (Bigwheel) is talking about the XX trail - an EXPERT section.

Theo is currently an Intermediate trail that has a limited number of expert sections/options right now.

When the Section 6 expert trail is opened next year (no thanks to you) there will be more challenge. The intermediate trail gets built, then you build the expert stuff, that is how it works.

If anyone would like to continue this Theo related topic... start a thread in the Theo forums.

[FSSS]

Off road bicycling should be a challenge!!!!! Leave it that way.

You need to realize this and all trails in the area (with the exception of Afton) are on public land, therefore the land manager makes the rules.

[soupboy]

...well, at least both times today. I like it. I wish we had more tricky "ups" out there. Maybe a big ol' rock?

Trail was absolutely bayootiphul today.

Note: There's been a clear line developing down the RH side of the rock drop (Jan's rock - just before the table) in the dirt. We need to stop this. I dragged some logs over that path - one of which had fallen at the bottom of the roll in - to hopefully keep folks riding the rock. Sorry if that was out of line.

[KleinCrazy]

...well, at least both times today. I like it. I wish we had more tricky "ups" out there. Maybe a big ol' rock?



There is a big o rock up at Salem... about 14" at the moment but I am going to be working on it to try and get it up to 24" or so as a final height.

Plus we have a very very good high speed railable inslope turn to ride also.

you should try it out sometime.

The pup and I went out and did it today.

L8er
James

[gopherhockey]

...

Note: There's been a clear line developing down the RH side of the rock drop (Jan's rock - just before the table) in the dirt. We need to stop this. I dragged some logs over that path - one of which had fallen at the bottom of the roll in - to hopefully keep folks riding the rock. Sorry if that was out of line.

Not at all, and thanks! We spotted that during our night ride and had plans to head out and fix that before it rains and erosion starts.

[gopherhockey]

I had to joke with my buddy that maybe the tree that we ride under towards the end of XX was the log in question. .

It is. You rode UNDER it? Gesh... ;)

Most of the hype is hype just to have fun with the new obstacle and generate excitement and discussion. Don't take it as everyone being scared of it - if you are, you missed the point entirely.

Another thing to note - the log in question has more often than not had helper logs placed under it, so you could very well have ridden it and not noticed it because someone out there is making it too easy (and its NOT MORC members). If the helper log isn't there, you will hit a chainring if you try just roll it. For those that can lift up and pull the back up, its a super easy log ride.

Its also much easier now that there is a clear line of sight too it. Earlier in the year it was around a blind corner and snuck up on people. Again, thats partly why we post... keep it fun, keep it challenging, but keep it safe.

... and as always if you are out to find obstacles that can actually kill you, a county park in the middle of the metro is not the place to find it... we're very lucky Dakota has let us put the obstacles in Leb that we have, so we should all be thankful.

Thanks for your comments!

[Bighit]

Enough said, I vote you to head up any future work at Theo. Instead of jumping it or walking it, riders want to remove or make easier an obstacle so it doesn't throw their rhythm. I say, accept the challenge!
---Amen to that. It would be great if the trails were harder. It's diff. to knock Leb since it's pretty much perfect. Props out Jon L and Tim W. If only Writh had some tough features to it though, like back in the day. Remember the teeter totter? How about the Skinny. At least the big log drop still exsits. Hopefully no one will ruin that too.

[transplant]

I finally got my a$$ to Leb to see this log. KEEPER! Two tries, two flies. Other than giving my chainring a love tap both times, it's not too bad.

[Ishmail]

I've seen the light. Even though I was originally against Ted's Log...mainly because of a bent chain ring, I've changed my opinion. I've ridden over this obstacle 4 or 5 times since my original debacle and I really like this challenge. Now if only I could change my vote, so I don't look like such a wussy!! :eyeroll:

[gopherhockey]

I've seen the light. Even though I was originally against Ted's Log...mainly because of a bent chain ring, I've changed my opinion. I've ridden over this obstacle 4 or 5 times since my original debacle and I really like this challenge. Now if only I could change my vote, so I don't look like such a wussy!! :eyeroll:

Great post and great attitude toward this! I originally voted yes but didn't necessarily like it there.. now I like it. (I don't love it yet though hehe)

[tedsti]

See, it's not so bad......

I've seen the light. Even though I was originally against Ted's Log...mainly because of a bent chain ring, I've changed my opinion. I've ridden over this obstacle 4 or 5 times since my original debacle and I really like this challenge. Now if only I could change my vote, so I don't look like such a wussy!! :eyeroll:

[R.A.M.]

fo·rum (fôr'əm, fōr'-) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif
n., pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr'ə, fōr'ə).



A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.

A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

In case you didn't know...

Bob (Bigwheel) is talking about the XX trail - an EXPERT section.

Theo is currently an Intermediate trail that has a limited number of expert sections/options right now.

When the Section 6 expert trail is opened next year (no thanks to you) there will be more challenge. The intermediate trail gets built, then you build the expert stuff, that is how it works.

If anyone would like to continue this Theo related topic... start a thread in the Theo forums.

[jtegeder]

Gets dark in those pine trees at sun down... Might have to invest in the niterider system.

J

[gopherhockey]

fo·rum (fôr'əm, fōr'-) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif
n., pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr'ə, fōr'ə).

A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.


A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
In case you didn't know...


I think you missed his point. He wasn't telling anyone not to discuss it, but to keep it in the proper area. Discussing Theo Wirth in the Lebanon Hills forum has a whole other definition... ;)

Lets keep this on topic. Thx!