Marketing Ideas

[FSSS]

I had a couple ideas during Charles' speech today that I thought I'd throw out there:

- Could MORC produce a 'local trails brochure' (and maybe a poster/map to put up in shops) showing all the local trails MORC is involved with? It would include info on MORC, MORC's web address and the IMBA rules of the trail, of course. I think a lot of people buy mountain bikes but never take them off-road because they don't know about the local trails.

- MORC 'shop reps'... a MORC member that would be assigned to a shop and form a relationship with the owners and salespeople. Someone that would check in with the shop every month or couple weeks. They could be responsible for keeping that particular shop stocked with MORC memberships, MORC info, trail info, MORC T-Shirts?, etc. Ideally we'd have one person for every shop location.

I'd like to cover Freewheel, but there may be others that have contacts there.

Comments?

tp

[Buck]

Embrace video...pictures are one thing but to see someone actually ride the trail is quite another, might be cool to have video clips in the trail section of the website.

L8R
Buck

[gopherhockey]

I had a couple ideas during Charles' speech today that I thought I'd throw out there:

- Could MORC produce a 'local trails brochure' (and maybe a poster/map to put up in shops) showing all the local trails MORC is involved with? It would include info on MORC, MORC's web address and the IMBA rules of the trail, of course. I think a lot of people buy mountain bikes but never take them off-road because they don't know about the local trails.

tp

There is a guy (Richard "Fred" Arey) who does a twin cities cycling guide - maybe someone like this would be interested in partnering to do a mountain bike specific style. Would be nice to have some color photos, maps and so forth.

I think this would be a good thing to do. The only issue would be the ever changing state of our trails. Would have to be able to put out different "versions" of it or something.

[nigel]

There is a guy (Richard "Fred" Arey) who does a twin cities cycling guide - maybe someone like this would be interested in partnering to do a mountain bike specific style. Would be nice to have some color photos, maps and so forth.

I think this would be a good thing to do. The only issue would be the ever changing state of our trails. Would have to be able to put out different "versions" of it or something.

Ive actually been gathering info to do this, the only problem is the lack of proper maps. The ones the current guides use are so outdated and the reviews are not by mtn bikers for mtn bikers. Also the trail building the last few years has been so great the maps change every 6 months! I think once we get things settled down and can properly map it will be done.

D

[FSSS]

I think this would be a good thing to do. The only issue would be the ever changing state of our trails. Would have to be able to put out different "versions" of it or something.

I don't think it would have to be anything too big, a small folding map/poster thing might be best. We could include info about MORC's role in building trails and point out that many of the trails are still changing/developing.

We could do an update annually, or if there isn't too much trail detail, we might be able to get away with bi-annually.

The trail maps probably aren't important either - I was envisioning one map of the entire metro area, with Leb, Terrace, Murphy, River Bottoms, Theo, etc. highlighted on it, and maybe list a few stats of each trail (the total # of miles of trail, difficulty, etc.).

That's it... just the basics.

The main purpose of the map/brochure would be to tell people that the trails exist, how to get to the trailheads, and let people know that MORC is the group that builds/maintains these trails.

Maybe further down the road we could do a more detailed trail guide, but something basic could be done relatively easily, and would do a lot to get the MORC name out there.

[nigel]

I don't think it would have to be anything to big, a small folding map/poster thing might be best. We could include info about MORC's role in building trails and point out that many of the trails are still changing/developing.

We could do a new version annually, or if there isn't too much trail detail, we might be able to get away with bi-annually.

The trail maps probably aren't the most important thing either - I was envisioning one map of the entire metro area, with Leb, Terrace, Murphy, River Bottoms, Theo, etc. on it and maybe list a few stats of the trail like the total # of miles of trail, difficulty, etc. That's it... just the basics.

The main purpose of the map/brochure would be to tell people that the trails exist, how to get to the trailheads, and let people know that MORC is the group that builds/maintains these trails.


Sooo like the Twin Cities bike maps? The ones with the metro area roads on it, bike friendly marked in red and the back had mtn trails on it? There is one out now, but it has gone more road friendly than mtn the last few years. Very good map tho, I believe Doug Shidell (sp) puts it out.

[Burke]

Sooo like the Twin Cities bike maps? The ones with the metro area roads on it, bike friendly marked in red and the back had mtn trails on it? There is one out now, but it has gone more road friendly than mtn the last few years. Very good map tho, I believe Doug Shidell (sp) puts it out.

I work with Doug Shidell. He works at Quality part time, and does his map deal part time. I wonder if he'd be open to a joint venture project with a mountain bike trail map with his road connectors for if you're wanting to ride to them.

[FSSS]

The ones with the metro area roads on it, bike friendly marked in red and the back had mtn trails on it?

Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Does it have MORC info on it?

[nigel]

Huh... never knew such a thing existed. Does it have MORC info on it?

I dont believe so, but we should try and make something happen Scott. Lemme know what i need to do to help :)

[FSSS]

What do people think about the 'MORC Shop Rep' idea??

[syntaxjunkie]

Sorry I'm a little late to the discussion. Scott, this doesn't look like sacking out on the couch watching football. ;-)

First of all, thanks, Pete. I like your idea about the trail guide. It's something that we've toyed with for awhile. Of course, actually getting it done has been another matter. But we really should be the ones to publish the definitive guide to mountain biking in the area. If there's a way for us to partner with someone who can help us with the toughest part of the program (the maps themselves), I believe that this is something we could sell either to or through bike shops.

To Buck's point (somewhat), combining the maps with visuals of some sort really ups the ante. In print, action photos like the ones Scott Haraldson and others have taken would be a huge selling point. For the web site, perhaps there's a way for us to offer helmet cam video clips to give site users a rider's-eye view of what each trail has to offer.

Here's another thought: We've traditionally focused on trails as our primary means of attracting attention to MORC. Another way that we can reach out to riders outside of our current core membership is by putting an increased emphasis on teaching riding skills. Shad has already taken a lot of intiative in doing skills sessions, but now that he's a board member, we can really pile it on.;-) I can see new boardies Adam Buck, Pete Koski and Mara Larson really helping out here as well.

Riders building better places to ride. And helping riders build better skills. Sounds like a pretty good combination to me.

[Burke]

Sorry I'm a little late to the discussion. Scott, this doesn't look like sacking out on the couch watching football. ;-)


I had just finished unloading (event stuff) then reloading the van (Rick's moving stuff). So I had enough energy to post up. Think? No, but post, yes.

I did successfully drowse through the end of the vikes debacle and the first half of the pack at motor city.

Now it's time to track down supper.

When I see Doug Wed, I'll mention something and see where the conversation goes.

[syntaxjunkie]

What do people think about the 'MORC Shop Rep' idea??
well, you know i love it. i'll post something soon about convening a shop rep group. thanks for the support, pete.

[Buck]

Sorry I'm a little late to the discussion. Scott, this doesn't look like sacking out on the couch watching football. ;-)

First of all, thanks, Pete. I like your idea about the trail guide. It's something that we've toyed with for awhile. Of course, actually getting it done has been another matter. But we really should be the ones to publish the definitive guide to mountain biking in the area. If there's a way for us to partner with someone who can help us with the toughest part of the program (the maps themselves), I believe that this is something we could sell either to or through bike shops.

To Buck's point (somewhat), combining the maps with visuals of some sort really ups the ante. In print, action photos like the ones Scott Haraldson and others have taken would be a huge selling point. For the web site, perhaps there's a way for us to offer helmet cam video clips to give site users a rider's-eye view of what each trail has to offer.

Here's another thought: We've traditionally focused on trails as our primary means of attracting attention to MORC. Another way that we can reach out to riders outside of our current core membership is by putting an increased emphasis on teaching riding skills. Shad has already taken a lot of intiative in doing skills sessions, but now that he's a board member, we can really pile it on.;-) I can see new boardies Adam Buck, Pete Koski and Mara Larson really helping out here as well.

Riders building better places to ride. And helping riders build better skills. Sounds like a pretty good combination to me.

I would recommend NOT using helmet cam clips, while they are cool you lose all perspective of the trail unless you are following some one, the best is good ol fashion tripod and camera, or free hand. IF you can combine it with helmet cam and make it work killer, but the best perspective would be from off the bike. Just my .02 cents.
L8R
Buck

[Aaroneous]

I would recommend NOT using helmet cam clips, while they are cool you lose all perspective of the trail unless you are following some one, the best is good ol fashion tripod and camera, or free hand. IF you can combine it with helmet cam and make it work killer, but the best perspective would be from off the bike. Just my .02 cents.
L8R
Buck

I think it'd be freakin' sweet to have like "fly-bys" of cool trail sections/features - like running the camera along the trail waist-high, swoop around corners, up and over obstacles...

[Trevize1138]

I would recommend NOT using helmet cam clips, while they are cool you lose all perspective of the trail unless you are following some one, the best is good ol fashion tripod and camera, or free hand. IF you can combine it with helmet cam and make it work killer, but the best perspective would be from off the bike. Just my .02 cents.
L8R
Buck

Buck,

One big difference I noticed between the helmet cam videos at film festival and a couple ride-behind shots in "The Collective" seemed to be in focal length.

Seems like all the helmet cams are using wide-angle but The Collective used a tighter field of view. If we were able to get a rider's-eye-view shot of the trail through the equivalent of a 50 or even 70mm lense then you'd have a much better feel for how it really looks.

The main difference I saw was with wide-angle the trail looks wider, obstacles look smaller and speeds look slower. With a longer focal length you got a much more accurate impression of speed and scale. Of course, the riders in The Collective were no doubt actually going faster 'cause they're good and riding down a full-fledged mountain.

Does anybody know if all hemlet cams are locked in to a wide-angle view or is it possible to tighten up the shot?

[KleinCrazy]

Most helmet cam systems that use a bulllet cam setup have multiple options for focal length. The MORC cam only has one but there are options for about 5 others out there I think. telephoto to Wide angle and even a fisheye I think.

[Buck]

hahaha, hate to tell ya but the bullet cam doesn't even come close to what the big guys use!!!! those are actual film cameras strapped to a helmet, not little DV cams, most of them are 8mm film cams.(correct me if I am wrong) I just don't like helmet cams, way to over used and usually shaky as hell.
But everything else you mentioned on what it does to the trail is the reason I'm not a huge fan of the over used death lens, it is good for somethings but when it is over used you lose perspective of everything. Not that I would never use a death lens or fish eye, just you have to pick the right shot...As James said there are some options out there, I am a huge fan of the VioSport camera system, I got to use it in the UP for the Red Bull 5X...they have a high res chip in their cam with a ton of options

That being said I am saving up for a 14' boom, mmmm, boom shots.....mmmmm
L8R
Buck

[Trevize1138]

Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the opposite problem you get with a longer focal length: the shakes! =)

But, I really would like to see some more ride-behind shots attempting this. Accept the shakyness for what it's worth and see if you can really convey that proper sense of scale. I just remember watching the ride-behind from James of he and Shad going over the tabletop at Leb and thinking it looked darn near flat! :shocked:

That was said with all criticism aimed at the cam, not the cameraman (James). :kiss:

hahaha, hate to tell ya but the bullet cam doesn't even come close to what the big guys use!!!! those are actual film cameras strapped to a helmet, not little DV cams, most of them are 8mm film cams.(correct me if I am wrong) I just don't like helmet cams, way to over used and usually shaky as hell.
But everything else you mentioned on what it does to the trail is the reason I'm not a huge fan of the over used death lens, it is good for somethings but when it is over used you lose perspective of everything. Not that I would never use a death lens or fish eye, just you have to pick the right shot...As James said there are some options out there, I am a huge fan of the VioSport camera system, I got to use it in the UP for the Red Bull 5X...they have a high res chip in their cam with a ton of options

That being said I am saving up for a 14' boom, mmmm, boom shots.....mmmmm
L8R
Buck

[manual63]

I think the best shots are the ones where the camera is moving with the rider and sometimes even in the opposite direction. I know I used to see cameramen on inline skates or skateboards when doing BMX shots. They end up look smooth and super cool in the end. I do one of a skateboarder jumping a hip and I followed along behind on my skateboard and held the camera super low to the ground....that looked cool.

[Buck]

I think the best shots are the ones where the camera is moving with the rider and sometimes even in the opposite direction. I know I used to see cameramen on inline skates or skateboards when doing BMX shots. They end up look smooth and super cool in the end. I do one of a skateboarder jumping a hip and I followed along behind on my skateboard and held the camera super low to the ground....that looked cool.

good luck using a sk8 board or rollerbades on dirt...:eyeroll:...moving shots are killer, all it takes is a couple inches and it can change the whole shot. In the woods that can be a little tougher to do. (Working with the idea of cable cams shots, have been all summer) Hopefully I can pick up that boom soon....mmmmmm....boom shots....mmmmm...but yeah moving shots are always cool. Once you move into the woods though everything is tougher.


That being said I think a combo platter would probably be best. Or I don't know if Scott still has his helmet cam set-up with the OIS...

Yeah none of my criticism is pointed at anyone, it is all from experience with different set up and cameras. :)
L8R
Buck

[homebrewbiker]

I think it would be good to have a packet of maps, like the group in Cable WI does. Each area could have its own map and then one overview of the area showing where all of the areas are. I think they charge like $5 or something for the whole packet.

[manual63]

good luck using a sk8 board or rollerbades on dirt...:eyeroll:

They do make those funky off-road ones ya-know......:laugh::laugh:

I saw a guy on off-road rollerblades try to jump some doubles and the Edina trails.....:laugh::laugh:.....not a pretty site.

[drmrboyalex]

I think the best shots are the ones where the camera is moving with the rider and sometimes even in the opposite direction. I know I used to see cameramen on inline skates or skateboards when doing BMX shots. They end up look smooth and super cool in the end. I do one of a skateboarder jumping a hip and I followed along behind on my skateboard and held the camera super low to the ground....that looked cool.

yea they get some awesome shots doing that. When you hold it low its makes everything look better, harder, and funner.

As far as the whole camera thing goes....maybe not do the whole trail but have a few cameras at the best shots.

Marketing ideas....the video is a good idea but also the shop rep thing is a really good idea. Maps, brochures......whatever you can do. (i feel wierd commenting on this bcuz im not a MORC member)

[TML]

(i feel wierd commenting on this bcuz im not a MORC member)

Your ideas and comments are more than welcome! And if at some point you become a member that's even better!

Good ideas everyone. Keep 'em coming.

I brought up the overview map of trailheads idea at the planning meeting last year but I never really ran with it. Maybe this year. I've got a great sample of what the people in the Kansas City area are doing. I'll see if I can post it somehow. It's set up perfectly as a brochure size info card that could be given away at shops.

[mara]

Pete McKinney, ex MOCA cartographer and continuing genius, had a way of GPSing the Theo trails that translated into a pretty darn nice map. I can't imagine he wouldn't share what he knows. In addition to a map showing MORC trail locations, we could make individual trail maps and keep them reasonably up-to-date, especially if we could find a way to subsidize the printing costs. Walking around in the woods with a GPS on a fall afternoon sounds like a pretty decent way to spend time :)

[gopherhockey]

Pete McKinney, ex MOCA cartographer and continuing genius, had a way of GPSing the Theo trails that translated into a pretty darn nice map. I can't imagine he wouldn't share what he knows. In addition to a map showing MORC trail locations, we could make individual trail maps and keep them reasonably up-to-date, especially if we could find a way to subsidize the printing costs. Walking around in the woods with a GPS on a fall afternoon sounds like a pretty decent way to spend time :)

I would love it if we could take advantage of something like this on all our trails. We had Dakota GPS Lebanon, but they don't share that info... and its still incomplete.

I tried using a small hand-held GPS a while back but never could get a decent accurate map - even well into winter. A better quality GPS system would give us much better results I'm sure.

[ppgc]

How about some cool looking business cards with MORC info on it (what we do, etc) and a link to the web site. These would be great to hand out at trailwork or when riding. They are nice and small, you can keep a bunch in a seat bag, CamelBak or even your sock.

On another note I can help out with some basic GPS mapping, I have a Garmin ForeRunner 301 with the bike mount and a wrist mount that works great for these. I have some basic maps of the river bottoms and Terrace including elevation.

-pete

[berrywise]

Would Dakota County allow Morc to setup one of our new tents on a Saturday afternoon out in the Leb parking lot? We could have some foam core boards with pictures of trailwork and other Morc activities and some flyers as to what we are and what we do. Have some Morc members on hand to answer questions along with membership applications?

I know I personally want to get out to all of MORC sponsored trails to take photographs of each that can be used in Morc marketing/power points for land managers etc.

[SPR]

How about some cool looking business cards with MORC info on it (what we do, etc) and a link to the web site. These would be great to hand out at trailwork or when riding. They are nice and small, you can keep a bunch in a seat bag, CamelBak or even your sock.

...

-pete
Good idea and I couldn't agree more. I find a lot of times while I'm on the trails and talk with the riders many haven't heard of MORC. When you tell them about this site it would be nice to hand out a business card (or how about a refrigerator magnet :cool: ) with the MORC essential info.

[Burke]

Embrace video...pictures are one thing but to see someone actually ride the trail is quite another, might be cool to have video clips in the trail section of the website.

L8R
Buck

Or, shop-loop DVD of Minnesota MTB trails. Get video footage of the trails being ridden, string it together. Have a 5 minute piece for each trail. Embed the text with MORC logos and info. We could probably make a 30-45 minute DVD riding documentary of the different trails in the state. The extras could be MORC info, Maps of trails, Directions to trails, etc.

Shops could play it and show their customers where the want to ride.

... Oh, you're new? Try the River Bottoms or Salem Hills. They look like this (skip to chapter 13, 16). Into DH? Try Steeplechase/Spirit/Lutsen (skip to chapter 3, 7, 8). etc.

That could be a pretty sweet project for some of our upcoming videographers.