Afton: 24hr race update

[Magic]

The course is looking real good. The trail crew put in a new section before the Whistler. It's a little soft right now, but should firm up fine for the race. The course this year has some new features that should make any XC rider happy. The course is marked with orange arrow signs on poles. Just follow the arrows and you'll take the NEW 24 HOUR COURSE. We have a few more trail work days to get the final wrinkles out, then it's RACE ON GANG. I would highly suggest that everyone racing should get out and pre-ride the course. This isn't a roadie course on dirt anymore. Good luck to all and I hope you enjoy the course.:D

[Tower]

The couse has changed considerably... Please post your feedback here.

Specifically, the course is more challanging... We will work towards having as many alternates as possible so that people are not forced to ride obsticles such as 4' high log crossings if they don't want to...

Your feedback is appreciated...

Again, this is becoming a true mountain bike course. Pre-riding is advised.

[mcarples]

My team road the course today and loved it. However, something is going to have to be done to the steep left hand turn right before whistler. It was super fun to ride, but it was so soft that it won't be able to withstand heavy traffic. As it is now, the trail was creeping towards the cliff's edge. On teh whole though, the course was super fun. Great work guys.

[TB0NE]

I wouldn't mind if you could do some work on removing the hill climbs, but you can leave in the downhills....maybe start up a lift or something??? :banana:

Other then that, I enjoyed the course, we will see how I feel at 4am when I ride it during the race.....:zzz:

Also, x2 on the way to soft new trails. There is no way those are going to withstand traffic unless someone hauls in some water. I wouldn't mind a few less braking bumps on the downhills either, but we all know those are inevitable (just look at Leb on Dream Trail).

This stuff is really just nit-picking. It was a great trail! It will be a fun race. The 4ft log climb was excellent 2nd time around when I knew it was comin'.

[Tower]

Thanks for the feedback. The section your referring to (called "DLA") was just created on Saturday, so it is going to be real soft. We'll be grooming it on Thursday, Saturday and again next week prior to the race.

If you happen to be out there and notice it's starting to deteriorate and you have a minute or two, do some foot stomps on the soil to pack it down. We'd appreciate it for sure! With a little rain, some clean braking/ riding, and some foot stomps it should firm up by race time.

All I ask is be cautious of the retaining logs which hold it all together...

On Saturday during the pre-ride we'll decide whether "DLA" is doable for the race. All are welcome to join in the ride at 10AM.

[phaberman1]

Hey Larry, what does DLA stand for?

Over

[Wolfchimp]

I would have to agree with Travis and Matt. The course was a blast...granted by the third lap for the 24hr I'll be a hurtin' unit. Since the other two already posted the little issues, all I have to say is... nice job on the trails guys! That was my first time riding out there and I will definitely hit it up again. I'm looking forward to the 24hr (and at the same time, dreading it. Ha ha ha!) It's gonna be a great time. Once again, to all the trail workers, thanks for all your hard work!

[Magic]

Glad to hear you liked the trails. This years 24hr race should be a blast with the new course. The trails should firm up in time for the race, if not we have alot of work ahead of us after the race. Also glad to hear that you'll be back to ride the trails again. Good luck at the race, and I'll see ya all down in the valley.

[bolmsted]

Well, to start off. Thank you to all that have put in time and effort with trailwork at Afton. I know that rubbing elbow grease into a trail system makes it ultra fun to ride for you guys and it takes a lot of heart to make the commitment to get out there and make it happen instead of just talk about it. If you guys could stand some relatively constructive criticism though...

i just rode the new course and I don't like most of the changes. I thought the charter out at Afton was to recondition some of the eroded areas and those are still bad. ...Worse in some places. The new section of trail seems like a bad compromise at best between fun free-ride inspired trails and fun xc inspired trails. Some of the features and new sections make me worry about 3:00 am when there is a layer of dew on everything. I love challenging trail (both grueling and technical) but some of the challenge I feel is oriented in just taking you wierd places through wierd lines when the terrain was there already offering itself as challenging real estate to ride. There is a very sharp downhill turn to the left that may lead to some injuries on the new section of course. The concrete berm is already starting to spall and may get very slippery when it gets wet. I could make a few more comments about the log pile over a high section of water when moving the trail down hill a few feet would make such a pile of sticks unnecessary but I have feeling that is not so written in stone.

However; on the positive note, Afton has a lot of real estate to offer and the efforts put forth this year as well as previous years have probably primed the area for a full set of designated free-ride trails. The new stuff is creative and it would be awesome to see the new section beefed-up and continued on its own full loop with more man-made obstacles and steep sections, etc. that would be a rad course to throw down on something other than a xc bike.

Anyway, I didn't mean to put a knife in anyone's side but I just felt that I owed it to you guys who asked for feedback and I owed it to myself to get it off my chest so I don't just crab about it to people that aren't involved.

Cheers!

Brian

[Magic]

All the re-routes have been planned and worked on by someone who has raced the 24hr's for the past 5 years. So I run with his lead on these area's. One thing to remember is the re-routes are new virgin soil that still needs to be packed in. Our goal is to make the course a real MTB course, not a roadie course on dirt, like it has been. There will always be washed out area's out at Afton, we know this and are fixing it weekly. The XC trails that are in place now will not get FR type stunts put into them. Not now not never as far as I'm concerned. I want the XC trails on one side of the hill and something FR somewhere else. One thing to remember is we are dealing with a ski resort. So we are trying to put as much of the trails into the wooded sections. I for one don't like riding on a grass slope. I'm sure you don't either. As for the log crossing, you don't have to do it, there are two other options available for you to ride. And the new section with the short downhill to the left is a blast to ride. This is MTB'ng the way it should be, but for the people that don't feel confident in their skills, we are putting in a "B" line also.

Thanks for the constructive crit. it's good to hear what people think, like and don't like. I hope your race is a good one and I'll see you down in the valley.

[Tower]

Brian, Thanks for the feedback... Constructive critism is good, but one point with any cristism is having alternative solutions. I personally invite you out to Afton Saturday at 10AM to ride and discuss your concerns. If you can't make it Saturday I'll also probably be at Afton on Sunday, Thursday night, or Friday night. So if you have some free time and would like to ride/ review your concerns let me know.

To summarize the vision of the changes; to remove the lone connector trail between the chalet's at the base of the hill. This trail remains, but is set in low lying consistently wet, featureless areas. The new trails that are in place were mapped out with the assistance of a well respected, master trail building MORC pioneer. The new trails are not random and it was a very thought out process, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 hours of labor invested since June.

Regarding the existing historic trails. Erosion will always be a concern, consistent maintenance will always be needed to sustain these trails. With 1200' of climbing & decending in a 7 mile loop you will always have erosion issues. The people maintaining these trails are a very small group of people volunteering their time. We can always use more volunteer help to help maintain the trails.

I understand your concern about slick features at 3AM. We plan on discussing in detail during the ride on Saturday. FYI... The log pile was placed to have an appropriate higher line into the slalom section. The spalling of the concrete berm is a concern we'll have to address, thanks for the pointer.

Again, Thanks for your feedback. In addition to your critism we are looking for solutions to the concerns... That is what started the changes at Afton, a group of people seeing a need for improvements and a willing sponsor (Afton Management) to help facilitate.

Moving dirt can be as much fun as riding dirt...

"Magic"... Remain calm, remember the 80/20 rule of thumb... If we get 80% approval we are doing pretty good... There are people that complained about Lebanon when that went under reconstruction...

Will we see you on Saturday at 10AM? If not, Sunday, Thursday or Friday?

[jzipfel]

Upon the advice of Larry and all the others who have put so much work into Afton this year, I rode it yesterday. It is obvious that everyone involved has put in an immense amount of work. (the tunnel under the water lines comes to mind). As you have asked for feedback, I will give you my thoughts on the trail. All of these thoughts are based on a riding Afton as a SOLO rider for the past 3 years and who has done other 24 hr events around the country.



From the Start/Finish Chalet:



- Somewhere around the rope tow/handle tow area are some cables that are kind of low. They have tape on them, but I am only 5’7” and it sure looked like someone over 6’ with lights on could get snagged on these.

- I love the Bridge Loop, don’t know why but I like this climb. Did you armor the downhill section after the bridge? I seems better, keep the speed and it is a lot of fun. Also, I really like the new single track out of the loop. The two trees near the end will keep you honest as you get tired.

- Shady Lane and the Southern Swithchbacks are in pretty good shape. I like the reworked areas through the woods.

- Cliffs Edge and Afton Gully are perfect single track for a 24 hour event. Technical enough to keep you thinking but not so much that a Solo rider fears a 3am ride through the area.

- The Cut off from Valley View to the steeper single track (expert section towards the chalet) has always concerned me. The erosion and braking bumps are really bad. I remember a year or two ago there were guys with shovels trying to keep up with the erosion during the race. There has to be a better option. I noticed that several people agree with me as they have started an alternate route around the first tree to the right to avoid the roots and drops. I’m not saying this is good, but again, late at night/early in the morning my weight balance and braking just aren’t good enough to clean this section so I end up walking it. To me a 24 hour event should be challenging technically, physically and mentally, but this pushes it in my opinion. Could we legalize the re-route around the roots, fill it in, or avoid it ?

- The bench cut after you get out of the wood and then climb above the Meadows Chalet was very loose. This whole hill is rather sandy so firming up is going to be tough. I kept thinking how will it hold up to hundreds of passes. However, this area seems like it will be in better shape than the cut after the new slalom area above the start/finish chalet. This was really loose as it is all sand.

- The new slalom area is a lot of fun. Should make it more fun for spectators.

- Thanks for the option around the log roll. No way you’ll see me doing the logs when the sun is not up.

- The concrete berm, as was mentioned in an earlier post is breaking up a bit. I hope this holds up since it really sets you up to keep the speed through the rest of the slalom.

- A few comments regarding the new single track that makes a sharp left over a log/pipe and then drops into the single track. The turn is at the top which then requires a bit of finesse to hit the log perpendicular. If you are able to hit it properly the drop then requires you to brake/turn at the bottom and not hit the trees. The dirt down here is VERY soft. After hundreds of passes and when fatigue sets in I am not a fan of this for a 24 hour event. On a Saturday with friends it is great, but I fear injury during this event.

- Why can’t you cut down Wistler/Manhandler? Just kidding. It has always been a personal badge of honor to say I’ve never walked this one.

- The Slalom area out of Midmountain Crossing above the Alps chalet has some grass cut to provide a new line. After riding it a few times, I think the old line has better flow. The second turn is tougher to set up.

- The tunnel is a fun feature. Watch out tall people. The trail leading out of this area is rather narrow and you definitely need to keep some speed to clear the area. There are some areas which seem to be falling away from the bench cut.

- The Single track that avoids that cruise back to the chalet is nice. A few areas are falling away from the bench cut. Can we do anything else about that pipe? It has a blue pad on it, but anyone over 6 feet tall might get caught by this one if they are not watching. Luckily, I’m pretty short.





Well, those are my thoughts. Thanks to everyone for your hard work. Unfortunately, I will be in Cleveland this weekend so I can’t join you all on Saturday. As you go through, please ask yourself how would you feel about a section as if you were a solo rider and physical and metal fatigue is setting in. That is the perspective that I was using. I’m not asking you to dumb it down, just keep it fun. See you next Friday.

[yetirider]

I have to support Jeff on some of his comments. After riding a few times, on a Sunday / Saturday, it's a great ride, but 3-4a on a Friday night for a solo rider it may be tough! Also, I am in that 6'+ range and his concerns for those of us in that class are certainly valid (although the dip under the pipe didn't pose much of a problem, the other areas that he pointed out did...) For tall riders on 29r's it could even be more of a problem...

I will be out there again in the next couple of days and hopefull with some rain, some of it will shore up a bit!

Thanks to all of you who have put in the time in getting Afton into an even better mtn. bike ride!!! Let's just be sure that it is safe for a 24 hr. event!

[Tower]

Fellows,
Thanks for riding the trails and taking the time to provide your feedback... We'll look at your specific points tomorrow night (Thursday) during our weekly trail session.

The objective of the ride on Saturday at 10AM is to ensure the established course is safe in respect to "mountain bike" standards versus dumbing it down.

Hopefully most of you enjoy the trails that have been put in place... None of the new trails would be considered "expert xc" trails. They were designed to challange the novice rider and please the more advanced technical rider... These trails are intended to meet in the middle...

Most people reading these forums understand IMBA rules of thumb. Please do not ride around the technical rooted section from Valley View leading downhill towards the Meadows Chalet ("expert" sign posted at entrance). If you choose not to ride the little stairstep please dismount and walk past. Tomorrow night we'll assess the condition and repair as necessary to sustain the fun little downhill trail... In the mean time please don't create another line just to avoid the feature... It just makes it worse and tougher to maintain for the volunteers that work on the trails...

I guess one thing to consider is what we all signed up for... Whether solo or as a team it's a 24 Hour "Mountain Bike" Race... Do you want us to take the mountain bike out of the race?

Again, great feedback. We'll attempt to address your trail concerns by race day. Hopefully everyone from the novice to the expert racer enjoys the trails... That has been our goal, and will continue to be...

[yetirider]

Larry,

Thanks for the response, I am sure that all will be well on "race day". I don't doubt that any true safety issues will slip through! I am going to do my best to get out there on Sat.!!! Thanks for all your hard work!

[Magic]

Myself and one other Afton trail worker will be providing trail work for the entire race. If racers find sections of the course that need attending to, tell the people at the timing table when you cross it. I will be checking in with the table every hour or so to see if racers have any problems out there. I want to keep the course in as good of shape as can be for the racers. So if the racers can help me, I can do my best to help them have a safe and good trail to race on. This will only work if the racers help out. Thank you, and have a safe and fun race.

[Don Youngdahl]

Also, I am in that 6'+ range and his concerns for those of us in that class are certainly valid (although the dip under the pipe didn't pose much of a problem, the other areas that he pointed out did...) For tall riders on 29r's it could even be more of a problem...


Is that overhead hazard located on an uphill or tight turn where riders will be going slow and more likely to see and react properly to it, and have minimum stress on their neck if they bonk their head? Or is it in a fast section where a mistake will result in all the force of contact with the hazard being transmitted to the body through the neck? If it is the latter, that is not a reasonable hazard to have on any mountain bike trail, anywhere, race or not.

Don Youngdahl

[RedSquirrel]

It's after at a slow up hill section. You swoop under a pipe, actually you have to pedal the whole 10ft long under pipe section. It's clearly visible and very do-able. If for some reason a slow motion loss of balance issue occurs, the area is perfect for a soft fall....or should I say step off the bike. I really don't see any falls happening. Safe as can be. Really.

[Magic]

Don, the underpass is on a slight uphill coming into it. People are making more out of it than it really is. We've had riders from 6'4 to 5'10 ride it with no problem. It is a new feature area, and riders aren't used to it being their.

[Don Youngdahl]

I sent a PM to Heckler thanking him for the quick reply and explaining the reason for my concern, but upon reflection I decided to share that reason with the whole group.

In active sports, there is always some risk of severe spinal cord injury, and the most likely way to wind up a paraplegic is to land on or take a hard blow to the head, with all the force being transmitted through the neck to the body. This of course can happen on any type of fall (I once had 2 small neck vertabrae fractures from an X-C skiing fall), but contact with an overhead obstacle **guarantees** that the full force of contact will be transmitted to the neck and spinal column. Hence the extra caution justified for overhead hazards.

Don Youngdahl