Questions for MORC board nominees!

[manual63]

If you have any questions or concerns about future trail building or the future of MORC, please post here and not in the nominee thread. All of us interested in running for the board can read and reply to your questions or concerns here.

It is important the other thread does not get cluttered with a ton of other posts, so those who are doing the voting can easily go there and read what each nominee has to say without looking through a ton of other unrelated posts.

Thank you.

[SPR]

Can nominees be removed from the ballot?

[gopherhockey]

Can nominees be removed from the ballot?

Not sure what you mean. You want me off the ballot already? ;)

[Burke]

Yeah. Nominees will be put on the printed ballot if:

1) They nominate themselves (and include a bio)
2) They are nominated by someone else, accept the nomination (and include a bio)
3) At the meeting, the individual nominates themselves and gives a bio

Ballots will be printed roughly September 3.

If your name ends up on the printed ballot and you change your mind, you can remove yourself from consideration by letting me know by phone, in person, or via email. Having someone say "xxxxxx has decided not to run" will not get you off the ballot.

phone 612-722-5299
email president@morcmtb.org

[Burke]

Serious now,

How bout one of the people trying to get elected or all of you for that matter, explain your stance on aggressive trail riding and how you plan to implement things to get more demanding features on trails in the woods that people like Andrew, Pete, Dusty...etc...etc can ride and progress on? What do you personally feel about FR/DH/DJ/DS riding? What can we expect you to do if people come forward to you with oppurtunities?

Thanks
L8R
Buck

Good question. I personally enjoy DH and FR. I am in no way gifted in either area, but I enjoy pushing my limits.

I see the future of FR/DH/DJ/DS being led by passionate participants in FR/DH/DJ/DS. To that extent, MORC has succeeded in creating a system of XC trails because a core group of passionate XC riders has been leading the effort. When we build trails, we are able to build what we know, and build what we're allowed. We've been able to build enough credibility with land managers that in some cases, we're able to venture into basic freeride type stunts and obstacles. To get this far, we've had to overcome stereotypes, land manager concerns, and our own lack of understanding of the discipline of FR.

Any future project of DH/FR/DS/DJ that would be worth a DH/FR/DS/DJ'ers time to ride will need to be led by a passionate DH/FR/DS/DJ'er.
This leaves two options. 1) XC'ers can try to teach themselves to DH/FR/DS/DJ so they can understand what makes a fun DH/FR/DS/DJ course. or 2) DH/FR/DS/DJ'ers can get involved in a leadership role and help advance their discipline.

I don't have enough time to work on someone else's agenda, if they're not willing to help advance it themselves.
I have plenty of time to work on my own agenda AND to enable others that are willing to take their agenda and run with it.***

We have a great vehicle in MORC that we can advance mountain biking in Minnesota. MORC has had great success with XC because of great XC leadership and volunteers. For MORC to have great success in DH/FR/DS/DJ, we need great leadership and volunteers in DH/FR/DS/DJ.

I personally am not qualified to lead a DH/F/DS/DJ design/construction project, but I am eager to help the motivated volunteer make their DH/FR/DS/DJ dream become a reality.

***throw in the usual agrees with MORC By-laws, sustainability standards, land manager approval disclaimers...

[gopherhockey]

I know I cannot speak for everyone, but I do know from the conversations we have had in the board meetings that everyone in the group is excited to see these types of initiatives take off. Buck, your name has come up more than once and through your efforts it has given some help and direction to the board.

I think over the few years I have been on the board I have seen some real changes in attitudes (including my own) from issues like how to appeal to DH riders, younger riders, heck - all types of riders.

There is a LOT to do and being on the board can be overwhelming at times... but the great thing about it is that each person feeds off of the enthusiasm that is growing out there.

[TML]

Originally Posted by Buck
Serious now,

How bout one of the people trying to get elected or all of you for that matter, explain your stance on aggressive trail riding and how you plan to implement things to get more demanding features on trails in the woods that people like Andrew, Pete, Dusty...etc...etc can ride and progress on? What do you personally feel about FR/DH/DJ/DS riding? What can we expect you to do if people come forward to you with oppurtunities?

Thanks
L8R
Buck


There's defiinitely a growing contingent in the cycling world that is taking on the more challenging type of riding. This is a great thing. Though I can't hold a candle to the skills that a lot of other riders have in this area, I'm still excited about the type of riding that they pursue. I remember riding through the Benson Grade trails in Marquette MI and just being in awe of the stuff that was built and ridden in the woods. If we can find places to build and ride this type of terrain with the landowners/managers blessing, I'm all for it!

Accomplishing this takes time and effort by those that seek this type of riding. Buck, and the others that have made the courses at Steeplechase and Spirit a reality, thanks for taking the bull by the horns and riding it in the direction you want. Anyone can come up with a great idea but the difference comes in having the wherewithal and committment to follow it through to completion.

MORC is growing in numbers and gaining a well respected reputation among land stewards across the state. As part of this growth process, we're exploring and pursuing the idea of chapters across the state in various regions. Perhaps something to think about with respect to this, is the possibility of a chapter based on focus rather than region. Are there enough willing leaders in the FR/DH/DS/DJ riding population to support a MORC "Gravity Chapter"? There's been no discussion of this and I'm just thinking outloud, but perhaps it's a possibility. . .

[Buck]

I know I cannot speak for everyone, but I do know from the conversations we have had in the board meetings that everyone in the group is excited to see these types of initiatives take off. Buck, your name has come up more than once and through your efforts it has given some help and direction to the board.

I think over the few years I have been on the board I have seen some real changes in attitudes (including my own) from issues like how to appeal to DH riders, younger riders, heck - all types of riders.

There is a LOT to do and being on the board can be overwhelming at times... but the great thing about it is that each person feeds off of the enthusiasm that is growing out there.

Hey John and Scott,
thanks for the responses! I want more........
L8R
Buck

PS: if a new position is created I'll run for the board.

[Kosk]

2) DH/FR/DS/DJ'ers can get involved in a leadership role and help advance their discipline.

*edit: [this should read with a enthusiastic tone]

And what leadership role might that be? What is available? Is there any position for this? An ambassador role? As I see it MORC is a group of passionate mountain bikers doing very positive things for mountain biking in this state. But that group is somewhat partisan. I'm not saying MORC has been shutting this new group of riders out, but rather that this new group of riders hasn't existed as a strong enough voice until just recently. Is there a way this new voice can be focused thru the bull-horn that is MORC? Is there a way for US to get involved?


And don't say "show up for trail work"....this horse has been beat to death on this forum, and it has been concluded, by you guys, that the current local trails (Theo, Leb) are not FR and will not turn into FR trails. Showing up for trail work at THEO will not result in a dirt-jump park. I'm talking about making room for someone at the top level, that can focus their effort entirely on a project for the other genre of riders, using MORC's experience and political pull as a spring-board and lever-arm. I see no reason why a large metro area like this does not have a Superior-like skate park, or a city-sanctioned dirt jump park.

As a rider looking from the outside in, MORC currently offers me no "direct" avenues to getting/helping a FR/DJ project get going. Can this be addressed?

Am I throwing my hat in the ring? perhaps....if there's room?

[TML]

As a rider looking from the outside in, MORC currently offers me no "direct" avenues to getting/helping a FR/DJ project get going. Can this be addressed.

Am I throwing my hat in the ring? perhaps....if there's room?

hmm. . .

See my previous post. (last paragraph)

[Kosk]

We're on the same page Troy. Still sounds like speculation though, or is MORC officially extending their hand and making room for us on the wagon?

[manual63]

Wow!!

Thanks a lot for posting here. I am glad I made this thread. Good, good points made by all of you. This is what is going to get us somewhere. Open discussion and it is obvious freeriding is the current hot issue.

Keep up the good open dialog and again...thanks for the input.

[Buck]

I threw my hat in on the board situation already, I offered up a new position in the other thread for people running for elections and the people that could possibly fill it, Pete being one of those!...like 2 hrs ago or something.


L8R
Buck

[Burke]

And what leadership role might that be? What is available? Is there any position for this? An ambassador role? As I see it MORC is a group of passionate mountain bikers doing very positive things for mountain biking in this state. But that group is somewhat partisan. I'm not saying MORC has been shutting this new group of riders out, but rather that this new group of riders hasn't existed as a strong enough voice until just recently. Is there a way this new voice can be focused thru the bull-horn that is MORC? Is there a way for US to get involved?

Good question Pete. Leadership comes in different forms. We have board level leadership which frequently looks beyond a specific trail, or specific project, and looks at the business side of things: budgeting, fundraising, goal setting, procedure development, etc...

The direction that I would like to see MORC progress in is that the board handles the larger picture issues, policy decision making and coordinating the business end of things. We need to develop another level of leadership that takes on specific projects or trails as their own and runs with it. Currently, the MORC trail stewards make decisions as to what happens with trails, not the board of directors.

I would like to see trail and project leadership expand to something like a trail advisory board that is comprised of interested individuals (not necessarily MORC board members) that want to have a say in how a particular trail or project progresses and are willing to stay involved and take the necessary action to accomplish their goals.

I would say that when I said get involved in a leadership position, it had more to do with getting behind a project, and being willing to help it come to fruition. Such as identifying that you want a dirt jump park in xxxxx park and working with the MORC board to get the presentations prepared, the land managers approached, and the permission attained.

The invitation is certainly open to join leadership at the MORC board level. If that is the way you see yourself getting involved, please see the guidelines I posted about board member expectations in the other thread. You can have a personal FR/DH focus, but you must be attentive to all disciplines and needs while on the board.

*
And don't say "show up for trail work"....this horse has been beat to death on this forum, and it has been concluded, by you guys, that the current local trails (Theo, Leb) are not FR and will not turn into FR trails. Showing up for trail work at THEO will not result in a dirt-jump park. I'm talking about making room for someone at the top level, that can focus their effort entirely on a project for the other genre of riders, using MORC's experience and political pull as a spring-board and lever-arm.

As a rider looking from the outside in, MORC currently offers me no "direct" avenues to getting/helping a FR/DJ project get going. Can this be addressed?


The response "show up to trail work" relates to someone saying, "why did you go this way around that tree, and not the other way, which is my favorite." That's when you show up for trail work and can make a difference.

If you're looking to make a difference and get a project rolling that doesn't exist, talk to me, or someone on the MORC board to get on the board agenda and be willing to show up at a board meeting to advance your point of view. We are here for mountain biking, not just XC. In order to be the bullhorn for DH/FR/DJ/DS, we need someone who's willing to make it happen that actually knows what they're talking about.

As to addressing other "interests" within mountain biking, absolutely! The best opportunity is attending the Summit in September. This is THE forum for getting your thoughts out. We'll be talking about what's going on in the state and setting goals for the coming years. I would love to see a strong showing from people that feel MORC is underrepresenting them. Show up and be heard.

[manual63]

I would not be someone who would want to run for a freeride position on MORC if one was to open up. But, I do support Bucks idea to make this position.

There are a few things that it would need to require. As a FR/DH person, they would need to and want to target specific FR/DH courses or trails, not expect FR/DH stuff at existing XC trails. There could be an exception to this, like how Leb did the XX Loop, but there needs to be a clear definition of what a FR/DH course would be vs an XC course. Like I said in other posts/threads, there is a lot of freeride crossover into XC trails. My point is that the existing XC trails will evolve and evolve as XC trails with the possibility of adding some stunts/jumps that crosses over to XC riding. But, a FR/DH course is something altogether different and since there are now two ski areas willing to have courses and maybe some other places, it should be the job of the FR/DH MORC board member to find and get these places to allow such trails.

So, I think a FR/DH position should be allowed onto the MORC board, but I think there needs to be a clear definition to what this persons goals are.

[Buck]

Shad, why so stringent on what things are???

Since you are on the MOCA board, you can't have any say in what I build on my FR specific trails and don't expect any ride a rounds or xc stuff. get what I am saying???

I simply say you are wrong in your views and they seem very close minded to me, if I am on the board and am there as a FR/DH representitve, why even come to meetings or represent MORC b/c the rules you have written down make it the way it is now! Pretty much saying you are on your own except now MORC can take credit for the work.

It shouldn't be up to anyone to make the rules or guidelines, the 1st year we should just see what happens, b/c you never know...like look at the jump at LH in the beginning, if that were to be built up a little bigger it could be a step up for faster riders and still be rollable for noobs(XC trail) or the jumps at Theo, those suckers, although fun as are, they could be made way better...or the suggestion of more berms at LHs. These all are things that a FR/DHer would recommend and see. but since that is on a XC trail would they be ignored like they are now, even if they can round up their own work crew and build to last? Or what about the jump or skinnies that Quinsoccer built, if we brought in rock, wood, or dirt and made it to last would we be able to??? Even if it is at a XC trail? What if I recommended a DJ park be looked into at a trail system that is primarily XC but has the perfect terrain for a DJ park, would it be brushed off?
Thanks
L8R
Buck

[syntaxjunkie]

I am copying my response to Buck's query from the other forum. To which I will add: The world is run by those who show up.

************************************************** **************

I don't have a stance on aggressive trail riding. Or XC. Or freeriding, downhill, dirt jumping, dual slalom, urban, or even singlespeeds. I have a stance on riding: specifically, that any of it that gets done on legit, sustainable trails is a beautiful thing. Furthermore, it is a beautiful thing when the people who ride those trails pick up a pulaski, a macleod, a shovel or a rock and help make them even better.

I would like to see MORC's membership better reflect mountain bike ridership. And the only way I know of to make sure that we're doing all we can to support all of the aforementioned types of riding is to have active members who get involved in trail work and put in their two cents about what they want a trail to be when it counts – out on the trail while it's being built. Not after the fact on the forums.

Buck, you're my perfect example. If we can bring in 100 new members who are half as committed as you, Minnesota will be the aggressive riding capital of the midwest. And if you (or anyone else) has ideas about how we can do a better job of accomplishing that, I'm all ears.

[seberly]

I'm confused about this "new position" what is that? As far as I know we are only electing board members, right? All board members seek to represent the MORC populace the way I see it, not individual groups - if we divide we are sunk.

[manual63]

Buck, you are out of the loop, especially at Theo. You must not read most of my posts in the Theo trail section. If you followed the discussions and directions we are headed in Theo, you would know I have already talked about and am hopefully planning on making the rollers and jumps at Theo much bigger and better and rideable for all. Two reasons, that area needs to be elevated and it would be perfect for a table. But, this does not just happen. We need to plan it and we are still a pilot project.

I still don't know why you have such issues with me. I am in support of what you are doing and have told many others that I am happy with what you have done so far. I do think you need to step back and take a look at the whole picture. I understand you have major goals and it's tough to be patient and let things take their course in time, but it's how things need to be done. You can't haul a bunch a wood into Theo, the MPRB will not allow that. The stunts need to be natural or made with something found in the park, ie curb ride. We have serious limitations at Theo because of the requests by the MPRB. We have a very good relationship with them, but it's still new. We just got done fighting just to keep any trails at Theo and we are fighting for more, because some people want sections closed off to us. If you attended a meeting or read most of the posts, you would know this.

I am fine with you stirrring the pot some, but I think you go too far sometimes and seem to keep pushing and stating that none of us have an interest in what you are trying to do. It's not true at all, but many of us have been here awhile and know that things take time and diplomacy. I have been wanting jumps at local trails for 3 years now. I got my wish at Leb a while back, but it's slow going. This stuff is just around the corner and things will get more technical and better soon. We need manpower right now....that will be the best thing anyone can do. Even if it's just clearing and fixing old trail it helps. We have to do the work no matter what, the faster the general work gets done the sooner we can get to building some cool @#!$!

I have a chill pill in my left pocket for you. You can choose to take it or keep starting fires.....starting fires is not going to get you anywhere in here or with MORC.

[Buck]

Buck, you are out of the loop, especially at Theo. You must not read most of my posts in the Theo trail section. If you followed the discussions and directions we are headed in Theo, you would know I have already talked about and am hopefully planning on making the rollers and jumps at Theo much bigger and better and rideable for all. Two reasons, that area needs to be elevated and it would be perfect for a table. But, this does not just happen. We need to plan it and we are still a pilot project.

I still don't know why you have such issues with me. I am in support of what you are doing and have told many others that I am happy with what you have done so far. I do think you need to step back and take a look at the whole picture. I understand you have major goals and it's tough to be patient and let things take their course in time, but it's how things need to be done. You can't haul a bunch a wood into Theo, the MPRB will not allow that. The stunts need to be natural or made with something found in the park, ie curb ride. We have serious limitations at Theo because of the requests by the MPRB. We have a very good relationship with them, but it's still new. We just got done fighting just to keep any trails at Theo and we are fighting for more, because some people want sections closed off to us. If you attended a meeting or read most of the posts, you would know this.

I am fine with you stirrring the pot some, but I think you go too far sometimes and seem to keep pushing and stating that none of us have an interest in what you are trying to do. It's not true at all, but many of us have been here awhile and know that things take time and diplomacy. I have been wanting jumps at local trails for 3 years now. I got my wish at Leb a while back, but it's slow going. This stuff is just around the corner and things will get more technical and better soon. We need manpower right now....that will be the best thing anyone can do. Even if it's just clearing and fixing old trail it helps. We have to do the work no matter what, the faster the general work gets done the sooner we can get to building some cool @#!$!

I have a chill pill in my left pocket for you. You can choose to take it or keep starting fires.....starting fires is not going to get you anywhere in here or with MORC.

Don't take it personal it't not you it is what you say!
L8R
Buck

PS: Stirring the pot works, look at all the talk started from me saying something about moving rocks 4 days ago! People must understand this is the intra web. I know what it takes to get things open I have done it. And posts like that where you sounds like my parents are pretty lame, thanks though I appreciate it. Don't worry I am full of energy and have things in the works for what I , as selfish as that may sound, I am looking for...progression. I don't care if I have to sell myself to the devil I will get it done. NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND??? Questions for the nominees?

[nigel]

We're on the same page Troy. Still sounds like speculation though, or is MORC officially extending their hand and making room for us on the wagon?

Just a short reply for times sake, but I dont see this as an "us" or "them" organization. We are about trails, "gaining and maintaining trails", so to me it does not matter what type it is, as long as it gets people on a bike and enjoying what we can bring to them and to the community around said trail. Be it XC, or some crazy 100% man made kick ass sweet trail, its all the same to me. I think its the "us" or "them" way of thinking that closes some minds that think they are open.

Douglas

[FSSS]

NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND??? Questions for the nominees?

Buck,
Could you explain your position on illegally built stunts and illegal trail building?



tp

[Burke]

Buck,
Could you explain your position on illegally built stunts and illegal trail building?
tp

Or unauthorized, but not specifically forbidden stunt and trail building.

[FSSS]

Buuuuck???

[FSSS]

...everyone here knows my views...

Buck,
Could you explain your position on illegally built trails and stunts?

[Buck]

Buck,
Could you explain your position on illegally built trails and stunts?

I am perfectly OK with them, since right now no one provides an area for aggro riders to progress anywhere in the state, I think it would be better to work with the builder of said illegal stunts and/or trails then to go in and just tear them down. Perfect example would be T.W.

So until we as in FRers(myself or others) or MORC step up to the plate and help get an area where riders can progress I am totally ok with them, even if they cost some xc mileage. That being said I am working pretty much around the clock to find such places and never miss an opportunity, have made great inroads with a number of places. And I mean progression beyond low wide structures, I'm talking things that challenge not only the mind but the bike and body as well.
L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

I think it would be better to work with the builder of said illegal stunts and/or trails then to go in and just tear them down.

Then or than?

[Tim Wegner]

Thanks for a clarification of your position Buck. My position on non-XC riding opportunities should be clear to all. If the trail is sustainable and meets the requirements of the land manager we will build whatever is possible. One indication to this position is Steeple Chase.

We worked with the land manager as well as the RASC group to get a downhill specific course built at that site. We devoted ALL of the IMBA Trail Crew's time to building that downhill course. Believe me it is not easy to get a visit from the IMBA crew. I agree that everything we worked on up to Steeple Chase has been XC but that was also the group that showed up for the meetings, addressed the land managers, parks commission, sat on committee's that wrote master plan (met 2X per month 3 hours per meeting for 18 months) presented to county commissioners, presented to DNR commissions.

We are now beginning to strive to meet the needs of the DH etc groups and that too will take time. The trails don't just occur because someone decides that "Oh look at that nice piece of land, I think I will just go on my own and build a trail." Lebanon was 6 years from start to finish. Theo will take at least that many years and Murphy has been in the works for 3+ years and will take 3 more years till it is finished.

Do I get pissed when after 6 + years of my life working to ensure that a trail will remain legal I see some immature, uninformed individual decide they want to change it to make it easier or harder? Absolutely! As I stated in my first paragraph, trials MUST meet the standards of sustainability and have the approval of the land manager. PERIOD. If those standards cannot be met then the trail should not be built in that location.

I believe that it is MORC's hard stand on those 2 points that has gotten us to the level of trust and confidence with the land managers and others in position of power.

The day we start making compromises on those 2 points is the day I will remove myself from the board of directors of MORC. That would mean that we are moving away from our mission which is "Gaining and Maintaining Trails."

Buck I like you as a person and trail builder, your enthusiasm is infectious, make sure you channel it so the trails you build will be around 20-30 years from now and don't detract from our sport---either DH or XC.

TW


Buck, you always get me when you refer to TW. I have to think you are referring to Theo and not to Tim Wegner.

[FSSS]

I believe that it is MORC's hard stand on those 2 points [sustainability and land manager approval] that has gotten us to the level of trust and confidence with the land managers and others in position of power.

Well said Tim, I totally agree.

Buck, thanks for finally clarifying your views. It helped me make my decision.

I also agree the board should include freeriders. But MORC's integrity and relationship with land managers is much more important.

Koski - any thoughts/comments?? I'm hoping you have another point of view.


tp

[Burke]

I am perfectly OK with them, since right now no one provides an area for aggro riders to progress anywhere in the state, I think it would be better to work with the builder of said illegal stunts and/or trails then to go in and just tear them down. Perfect example would be T.W.

So until we as in FRers(myself or others) or MORC step up to the plate and help get an area where riders can progress I am totally ok with them, even if they cost some xc mileage. That being said I am working pretty much around the clock to find such places and never miss an opportunity, have made great inroads with a number of places. And I mean progression beyond low wide structures, I'm talking things that challenge not only the mind but the bike and body as well.
L8R
Buck

When someone is elected to the board, they no longer speak and act for themselves, they are now representing the entire board and MORC organization. Can someone that is perfectly fine with stunts being built without land owner/manager approval effectively represent the organization that is dedicated to obtaining permission and following the land manager's requests, no matter how archaic, or behind the times they might seem.

I understand that there is a need for advanced riding opportunities, but it's almost catch 22 situation. If you build them illegally, there is no way you will get permission from the land manager to put them in with their blessing. If you stop building them to work with the land manager to get approval, you don't have the stunts you're looking to obtain available to ride.

Buck, how do you see your role in the progressive riding scene playing out if you're elected to the board? From the standpoint of both on the ground level and the MORC board level.

[Burke]

Then or than?

What are you, a teacher or something?

Oh... Really?

[FSSS]

What are you, a teacher or something?

;)

Proof that grammar is actually important!

It has 2 completely different meanings depending on which word you use!

[stoneage]

I love challenge, in thought and action, as shown by my passion for the Theodore Wirth system from the very start. I would love to see very complicated and dangerous stunts to test my handling abilities, but I have learned to be patient with age. Younger people don't have the patience to wait out the natural progression of things. There may be a place for them in another organization if they aren't happy with the efforts that MORC and MOCA are making to access riding areas for their constituency. Maybe the Minnesota Freeriders Society (MF'rs) could be formed to address their own particular situation. They wouldn't be burdened by the progress of another political body, and would be able to lobby and acquire land for their own benefit. A freeride park would be self limiting; XC on MORC and rad riders on MF'rs trails, although I would definitely come and ride them sometime. I wish you well in your efforts to accomplish this task. I, for one, know it isn't easy, but well worth the effort. Good luck.

[nigel]

Is it just me not understanding people or what? All i hear is XC this and Freeride that, I myself am a CYCLIST, period! I ride xc/road/cx/urban (come with me its fun to watch me fall)/and have even tried DS racing/have also tried some offroad FR stuff, just need to practice a TON more. I could care less about what faction of riding you think you fall into, MORC is about "gaining and maintaing trails" no matter what "type" they are. I wish people would stop segregating themselves and open up to the big picture of all types of riding trails, some are and i think its great, i just wish more people would. Just think of how much more we could do if we all worked together and organized for one common goal.

Douglas

[Tim Wegner]

Doug
I agree with you. MORC is for all cyclists. Period. you have all heard the old saying united we stand divided we fall/fail. That was the gist of my recent post where I said that it takes time to get the trails we want. It took many years of work to get the cross country trails and it will take some more time to get the DH etc. trails built. It WILL happen. XC riders were patient and look what has happened. We can make the same thing happen for the DH etc. riders.

I encourage the DH,FR etc. riders to be patient and work as a united organization to accomplish our goal of having trails for everyone to ride.

Look at what has happened in the past year for non-xc trails. Spirit mountain, Steeplechase, Afton (coming) and others. Understand that not all land managers will allow some of these dh, fr trails to be built on the land they manage. Help us find those lands and we can all work towards building the trails. As I mentioned earlier, the entire visit by the IMBA TCC was dedicated to building a downhill specific trail. It is always easier to take your ball and go home when the game is not going your way and more difficult to stay and work within the rules of the game to achieve the goals.

This my last post on this topic!
TW

[gopherhockey]

I echo recent statements and hope that everyone that has put their name in for the board will come in with an open mind and not just an agenda to serve their own interests. (Just to be clear this is NOT a comment on anyone in particular but includes us all - even the returning members.)

To switch gears just a bit...

Each year as the election rolls around I try and remind everyone something that I learned very quickly... that being on the MORC board is not an easy task! Its not just for showing up to a meeting and voting for this type of trail or that. Its hard work! One has to be willing to give a significant amount of time and effort to help MORC continue to grow and be successful. A person sitting on the board just going through the motions of the weekly meetings can hurt the club. I take a look at each and every fellow board member and respect them all for the huge amount of efforts they all give not just every month or week, but more often than not every single day. This is why I seriously re-evaluate my ability to give of my time and effort each year and why this will likely be my last (if I make it back on).

It is great to see new faces on the board every year. I hope that continues! I also hope that each new member will come in with respect to those who came before and to the formula that has gotten us this far.

[Buck]

hahaha, I knew if I posted you guys would all respond!

My time and effort have gone into legal trail systems. period, you don't see my name tagged onto any illegal trails, I'd like to keep it that way, but I by no means look down on misinformed, and immature riders, I think a club like MORC should go out find these builders and get them involved beyond crucifiying them on the boards then say come to trail building days(which is the only response I ever really see), which to me means not going out and simply tearing down their stunts/illegal trails(of the XC variety as well)/jumps or what have you. It means involving them from the get go.

It does take time I know that, I also know how frustrating it is, in the last year I have opened up and built and am still building at Spirit Mtn with no help from MORC, but a number of non-members who have donated tons of time and money into the trails there. I was also lucky enough to be directly involved in Steeple not only as a volunteer but also as a leader, being able to go out in the field and layout a trail top to bottom with two IMBA TCC members, I know how much time it takes, and as most of you know I'm not one to sit on my ass, I go out and get things done, so maybe I shouldn't be on the board, maybe I should stay out in the field.

3rd: I understand that MORCers say they represents all cyclists, just doesn't seem like they DO represent all cyclists. And yes I have tried and done it all, from XC racing to road biking...If it has two wheels I have given it a go..

4th: If I get on the board(unlikely at best) I will do what I am still doing. I see it has my mission to make a progressive seen in MN for FR/DHers no matter what it takes. I have some very tasty things in the works for those people, I certainly hope they enjoy it.

If you guys see this as a hinderance(sp?, just for you FSSS) to what is looked for on the MORC board by no means should you vote for me. I will continue my work no matter what happens! I have no problem simply helping when asked!
Thanks
L8R
Buck
PS: Vote for Pedro!
PSS: glad people are discussing that is what is supposed to happen.

[gopherhockey]

PSS: glad people are discussing that is what is supposed to happen.

Agreed... and thanks for your added thoughts.

BTW: I personally didn't have much to do with it, but wasn't Steeple Chase a MORC project that is more along the lines of what you are looking for? It seems to me that a lot of time and effort went into that area - even well before the ground was touched. I remember seeing Tim and Dale come back from some pretty long days of flagging and working with the land managers there.

I had felt all year that this was a good example of MORC stepping out to embrace other styles of riding. Maybe not enough, but a good start...?

[Buck]

Agreed... and thanks for your added thoughts.

BTW: I personally didn't have much to do with it, but wasn't Steeple Chase a MORC project that is more along the lines of what you are looking for? It seems to me that a lot of time and effort went into that area - even well before the ground was touched. I remember seeing Tim and Dale come back from some pretty long days of flagging and working with the land managers there.

I had felt all year that this was a good example of MORC stepping out to embrace other styles of riding. Maybe not enough, but a good start...?

IMO, I think it was more of an IMBA/RASC thing then MORC. But yeah totally it is headin in the right direction, and yeah MORC stepped out there with volunteer workers, then after the IMBA school up'd and left! Not even a strong showing at the G.O.. Tim and Dale, did a killer job!!! I tried to get out there while they were flaggin but having cut off a finger and just getting it re-attached while they were out flaggin kind of made it hard! :hit: Tim and Dale I would consider less MORC and more IMBA with that project. but that is just me. It is defintely in the right direction, I think more is needed(obviously) the XC scene is more then est. in MN, I paid my membership where is my representation? The money I paid hasn't gone to any trails I like to ride, that is how I look at it, maybe that is wrong...I don't know...but that is how I see it.

Thanks
L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

My time and effort have gone into legal trail systems. period, you don't see my name tagged onto any illegal trails...

Not illegal trails, but you built a bunch of 'unauthorized' stunts and jumps on that trail in Plainview. I don't think a land manager is going to see any difference between unauthorized and illegal.

I'd like to vote for you Buck... I really would... I guess that's why I keep bugging you about this stuff (I'll stop now BTW). The problem is you keep making it really hard for me to justify.

As Thayer said, "When someone is elected to the board, they no longer speak and act for themselves, they are now representing the entire board and MORC organization."



p.s. I could care less about your spelling or grammar, but sometimes your statements are unclear because of it.

[Buck]

Not illegal trails, but you built a bunch of 'unauthorized' stunts and jumps on that trail in Plainview. I don't think a land manager is going to see any difference between unauthorized and illegal.

I'd like to vote for you Buck... I really would... I guess that's why I keep bugging you about this stuff (I'll stop now BTW). The problem is you keep making it really hard for me to justify.

As Thayer said, "When someone is elected to the board, they no longer speak and act for themselves, they are now representing the entire board and MORC organization."



p.s. I could care less about your spelling or grammar, but sometimes your statements are unclear because of it.


I think I have made my point clear, if I get voted in I will work towards trails for DH/FRers. That is beyond myself, that is DHers and FRers, plural. There is no/not enough representation for FR/DHers in MORC. So if I don't get in I certainly hope that Pete Koski does, the only other person that has thus far stepped up to the plate for a position. If neither of us get in, like I said before I will continue what I have been doing as usual,, but I think the need is there to have a DH/FRer on the board if not in the form of a Board Member in some other way should be directly involved with the MORC Board in an official position.

Yeah that trail was more of a in-limbo thing, I had permission from the regional guy with DNR in Rochester over the phone, never went past that. More of a keep 'er on the DL kind of trail and that is why next to no one knows where it is/was and no pictures exsist that could give any one a good place to start looking. That entire trail took 4yrs to build, all up to IMBA spec, even the stunts were all self-supported, and no trees were cut down anywhere when I built the trail, this past winter I even tried to get Tim down there to take a look see, and see if we could figure out a way to make it 100% legit, went out there this spring to find half the stunts burned down the other half being used for a deer stand(s)...Don't know what happened, but I can tell you there was no trail like it in the state that is for sure, that trail which was damn near completion is my new goal for some where in MN, hopefully spirit, I have a different idea for Steeple. Both of which have different terrain which will allow for totally different trails, I can't wait to walk Afton with Troy, he has some killer ideas and an awesome build location as well.

Keep posting the questions I don't mind, I will answer the best I can, if I am unclear keep on asking till it is.


Thanks
L8R
Buck

PS: I knew someone would bring that trail up...gladily I can say it wasn't illegal, it really was a lost trail. :) you dug pretty far to find that thread, I saw you looking at it good job. :D :p

[Burke]

BTW: I personally didn't have much to do with it, but wasn't Steeple Chase a MORC project that is more along the lines of what you are looking for? It seems to me that a lot of time and effort went into that area - even well before the ground was touched. I remember seeing Tim and Dale come back from some pretty long days of flagging and working with the land managers there.

I had felt all year that this was a good example of MORC stepping out to embrace other styles of riding. Maybe not enough, but a good start...?

RASC was the group that was leading the charge with Steeplechase. They contacted Tim (and Dale?) to flag corridors and help with the Dingo. IMBA rocked the trail school and had a good number of MORC members (and others) show up.

While there was some MORC involvement, it was more RASC/IMBA. The deliniation gets a little confusing, as there's heavy overlap between IMBA and MORC in MN.

No worries, it's all advancing mountain biking in Minnesota.

... and I did make it down for the grand opening...

[seberly]

Yeah, thinking back 8-10 years or so it was great cyclists just ran for the MORC board elections and then the trails magically appeared....there was no waiting for legitimacy....of course there were no illegal trails out there and no one just went out and rode on or built trails they shouldn't have......there was lots of money too....in fact landowners and citizens alike were clamoring to have the MORC group visit.....lawyers be damned...it was so easy then.


Hah! (maybe you get my point I'm not real good at satire - as an engineer I missed some of those liberal arts courses).

[Kosk]

Sorry guys, I was out of town this weekend, shutting down summer with one last weekend on the wakeboard. (yeah, I do have other hobbies)

As far as the "Steve" thing goes; Tim started calling me Steve at Steeplechase while running the dingo as we built the lower jumps section, it was too loud to correct him, so I just rolled with it. Tim can call me whatever he wants, it's pretty obvious he's paid his dues and put his time in.

As far as being a MORC member, yup, as of 9-3-05. I read the fine print, and knew I had to kick in before being eligible.

More background info:

Education - BS in Mech Eng. (Montana State University, 2002, w/ honors, 4 years)

My time spent in Montana was when I got into mountain biking. It wasn't FRing, it wasn't XCing, it was just Mountain Biking. You'd grab your stuff, meet up at a spot in town, take turns pulling on the road out of town to the trail head and then ride sweet, sweet mountain single track, up, up, and up, and then down, down, down. I honed my skills and my addiction for the ride and the trail out there, where every element of riding was present on any given ride. So I guess I'd like to think I have a pretty well rounded view of the sport, and all its facets. As far as being on the board, I think my passion for off-road cycling is of the correct amount, and I believe my education has provided me with the skills/experience needed to be part of this group, take on responsibility, solve problems, be creative, generate opportunities, and work hard.