Heart Rate Max Issues

[gopherhockey]

Ok, so the road has been calling me this year and I'm messing around with the old polar heart rate monitor / cycling computer - graphing out my rides etc.

One thing confuses me - my heart rate max. I don't seem to be anywhere near it. I mean, I am going hard and my legs are burning. Short sprints, long rides, nothing seems to really budge it much. I usually hover between 145 and 160. its the same when I work out at home on various machines.

I don't feel like my legs are holding me back as I can go pretty hard, but I hear that can contribute. I also hear overtraining can, but still even after a break it doesn't change much. I feel like I've been doing fairly well averaging around 40 miles every other day to every 3 days with mountain rides thrown in.

Then I know people (younger, yet that don't train near as much) that hit 190+ all the time. One particular individual panics at 190 and slows down as if they feel their heart will burst. I never get that feeling.

Anyone a heart rate expert here?

[dejorn]

I think it greatly depends on the individual. Have you used the heart rate monitor before, and if so what has been your previous max? If you are training hard, your heart and cardiovascular fitness is probably improving to the point that your heart doesn't need to work as hard to achive the desired result. Are you able to maintain a fast pace despite the lower hear rate? I seem to have the other problem, and that is having an abnormally high heart rate especially when I race. During races my heart rate typically averages around 175 with a max of 194, however, at two races I managed to avearage 181 with a max of 196. Typicall on training rides (1.5 - 2 hours) my heart rate averages between 155-165. When I go out for a ride with my wife her heart rate is usuallly less than mine even though she is pushing to keep my pace (sorry Andrea). I don't know if this helps but I thought I would share.

[gopherhockey]

Interesting info. To answer the question, I feel I am holding a fairly good pace even with the heart rate. I normally average over 20mph on a ride - yesterday I had a good pace of around 26-27 that I held for at least 15 miles (before I had some turns and hills). Not Lance pace and probably embarassingly slow, but compared to where I was earlier in the year I'm happy with it. Just worried that something isn't normal or that I'm doing something wrong in my training.

To be honest for me its usually my lungs that hurt first - its been a problem mountain biking the past few years (which is why I took to the road). Thats probably an entirely different issue.

I would have suspected the monitor except that of all the different machines and monitors they all seem to be within 1-2% of each other.

[nigel]

John, I would suggest posting up at www.mcf.net the local road site. They have quite a few people there that would be able to help ya out, not that folks here cannot, Ive just seen this discussion there before.

D

[RedSquirrel]

They say 220-age. There are lots of web and training sites out there too. You prob looked and seen'em. I agree it's individual. Awe, you got a big heart. And 26-27 mph is fast.

I'm 39 and my rate, when I was maxing with monitor on was low 180's. I've raced 6 races but haven't put on the monitor cause I don't want the distraction. I used my monitor early season for min/max zone training. Once I got the endurance I switched off the monitor and went strickly interval, recovery and my own secret mix (ok, I got off topic.) Matt if you max is really that high, it may be a real advantage later. Your training below the max is good stuff too.

Goph, I wouln't worry too much. Everyone is different. We all have different size things, a funny. I bet there is an advantage to your heart rate. Go search the web for it! More than likely you've seen your max...but...put a huge back pack on and go jog or bike up a steep hill with it on. That should show your max. Just be careful, don't kiil yourself, you only gots one big one.

[redlinmi]

John,

I kind of obsess about the monitoring thing too. I think the previous posts are probably right on -- everyone is different, and max levels will be all over the board depending on age, height, weight, etc. What is your resting? I have found that the more I train, the lower the resting goes, and consequently, the lower the max as well (because of the increased efficiency). Hill climbs and intervals certainly help tell the story a bit as well. But good for you to be able to sustain your pace/cadence at those levels. That's cool. Wish I could say the same! I suppose a road bike purchase might help. :)

On a side note, I would really like to learn more about VO2 levels sometime. I think it would be interesting to know that number (not that it would be anywhere in the same time zone as Lance's (as per the Discovery special), but it would be interesting to know). Can normal, non-elite athletes get this measured somewhere? Just a thought...

[ppgc]

Can normal, non-elite athletes get this(VO2) measured somewhere? Just a thought...

Life Time Fitness locations offer this to members for like $80.00 or something. I have been thinking about getting tested.

John-

It totally varies by person, I hit 203 on high-end runs up hill, try running I can never hit my max on the bike.

-pete

[soupboy]

you can also get it tested if you go in for a "stress test" physical...something a lot of 40+ somethings have done where they hook you up to a bunch of breathing apparatus and make you run on a treadmill.

FWIW, I wouldn't be complaining that you can't get your heart to hit 180+ bpm...probably a good thing vs. hitting 200bpm just walking up some stairs...

[redBeard]

Interesting info. To answer the question, I feel I am holding a fairly good pace even with the heart rate. I normally average over 20mph on a ride - yesterday I had a good pace of around 26-27 that I held for at least 15 miles (before I had some turns and hills). Not Lance pace and probably embarassingly slow, but compared to where I was earlier in the year I'm happy with it. Just worried that something isn't normal or that I'm doing something wrong in my training.
I'm definitely not an expert nor a physiologist, but I'll regurgitate my experiences, anyway.....



What is your max? Only you know for sure..... The '220 - age' formula is only a good discussion for non-athletes. Mine is 185 and I"m 44 years old. My training partner is 51 and his is 192. We sometimes train with a 20 year old, his is 175. It's all in your genes....
For training, I've found Joe Friel's Road Training Bible the best. I would suspect maybe 30% of the road racers I know use this book as a basis for their plans.
For testing purposes (e.g., "what is my max heart rate -- today"), make sure you do some proper warm-up and then make a couple attempts at attaining your max. Attempting this kind of test without proper warmup is a Not A Good Idea (TM). You may not hit your max if you, for example, either not warm up enough or warm up toooo much. Also, if you don't feel well and can't get close to your max during your warm up (but you feel you should), don't attempt a max HR test. Again, Not a Good Idea.
15 miles at 26 MPH (by yourself) is smokin'. Not many local elites can hold that on a TT bike.... You probably wouldn't hit your max after a warmup like that. Your legs wouldn't have the drive and your heart won't make up for tired legs....
Your HR will vary on the same course/test from day to day. There are way too many variables to consider here and conditions from day to day are never the same. So, it doesn't surprise me that you're HR was lower one day and you were flying at 26 MPH.
Hope this helps.

[gopherhockey]

Thats good info. I have been reading Chris Carmichaels Food for Fitness book recently and am realizing that everyone is indeed different. He also states that it is rare to reach a max HR on a bike vs. running because you aren't forced to carry your own weight. (just like someone else mentioned here) I'll have to check out the book you are mentioning as well.

Thx!

[Bob]

Being more of a runner than a biker, I've looked at this as well. On every occasion, people with experience have always told me the same thing. "Stop comparing your heart rate with others." It is different for everyone. Also, as you mentioned and others before, it is about impossible to reach your max on a bike. The body just doesn't work enough muscles hard enough to use up the O2 to make the heart beat faster. As the body becomes more conditioned, it will become harder to hit a max HR as well. The heart grows stronger, pumps more blood with each beat, the muscles become more efficient with the O2 it gets, even additional capillaries start to form to supply more blood to the muscle.

Good luck and keep riding.

[stoneage]

It isn't important to obsess too much on Max HR. The meaningful numbers are resting HR and Lactate Threshold (LT). A well planned and executed training program will lower your RHR pretty dramatically, while also improving your LT to some degree. Remember, it doesn't take much of an increase in LT to improve performance. What you want is your LT and MHR to come closer together. A pro racer is able to work at 92-95% of their max, where a 'normal' athlete can only work at 85-88% of max.That means you are operating more efficiently at a higher HR, without going into a lactic acid situation (failure). The most efficient place to be is 1 BPM below your LT. Theoretically you can do that forever, as long as you are fed and watered.

[redBeard]

It isn't important to obsess too much on Max HR. The meaningful numbers are resting HR and Lactate Threshold (LT). A well planned and executed training program will lower your RHR pretty dramatically, while also improving your LT to some degree. Remember, it doesn't take much of an increase in LT to improve performance. What you want is your LT and MHR to come closer together. A pro racer is able to work at 92-95% of their max, where a 'normal' athlete can only work at 85-88% of max.That means you are operating more efficiently at a higher HR, without going into a lactic acid situation (failure). The most efficient place to be is 1 BPM below your LT. Theoretically you can do that forever, as long as you are fed and watered.
Very well put. That is exactly what athletes try to do (increase their LT, among other things...).

Although, it is OK to ride above your LT; I do it quite often during races. One just can't do it for long periods of time. For many races, the group is constantly surging and (sort of) resting, surging, (sort of) resting, etc. Each surge causes me to ride above my LT for a period of time, then when group slows, I can recover for a minute, etc. This cycle repeats itself maaaaaany times during a race.

So, a good training regimen will allow you to ride above your LT for some time, slow up just a bit to ride just below your LT for a bit, ride above your LT for some time, etc., over and over and over.... How to get one's body in condition to do that, however, varies from trainer to trainer. That's why there's so many books n theories on training regimens....

I'll take whoever wants to join me on a training ride... I'm sure we'll hit some max HRs......

[stoneage]

ride above your LT
You start (after about a month of light prep) riding 2-4 bpm under your measured LT for increasing periods of time. This has the tendency to push your LT up gradually. Riding too hard, a weekend warrior trait, tends to do the opposite. It will actually drive it down. BAD. It will only lead to decreased performance and possible burnout. After a determined time, depending on fitness level and goals, you start doing over/under intervals, allowing your system to take on and eliminate lactic acid efficiently. Remember, bike racing is all about attack/recover, as opposed to running or XC skiing, which is all about saving energy. Training is exactly that, TRAINING.

[Don Youngdahl]

John,



On a side note, I would really like to learn more about VO2 levels sometime. I think it would be interesting to know that number (not that it would be anywhere in the same time zone as Lance's (as per the Discovery special), but it would be interesting to know). Can normal, non-elite athletes get this measured somewhere? Just a thought...

The answer is yes, if he is still there and is still in business. Dr. Dan Carey, who is on the teaching staff at St. Thomas Unversity in St. Paul, does VO2 max testing at a very reasonable rate. Three years ago a roadie friend talked me into doing this test, and the cost at that time was $60, and for an extra $15 he put all the electrodes on to do an EKG. Where else can you get a stress test that pushes you to the max for 75 bucks?

He uses the data to compute an estimate of your aerobic threshold also. You can do the test on a bicycle or treadmill, and the bicycle has a bona-fide narrow bicycle seat.

My main purpose in doing the test was to again reassure my wife that I was not at risk when I went out and rode chest-poundingly hard and felt like dieing at the top of a hard climb, or attemting to hang with the young guys on the flats.

Fon Youngdahl