handling issues

[tns1972]

I am noticing on my new ride that the handling is way different than my old xc bike. Here's the set-up: "freeride" hardtail with 130mm fork, 50 mm stem, and 28" handlebars. Tires are 2.5" running at 35 psi. I know the longer fork leads to slower handling, but the fork stays. So here's the questions: Will cutting the bars down to 26" help? Will moving up to a 70mm stem help? OR, is this something I'll get used too. Thanks in advance for all of your advice!

[devo kenivel]

cut your bars if you want faster turning. i cut about 1/2 inch off both sides and it really helps. plus, with how tight some of the trails are around here, you pretty much need to cut your bars.

[tns1972]

I clipped about 4 trees at Leb yesterday, so the bars are now definitly getting cut. It's good to know that will help with the handling too. THX

[Trevize1138]

Stop!

Don't cut your bars. You'll seriously hurt your handling, not help, by going shorter with the bars.

I run wide-@ss bars for riding Theo (I haven't measured, but they're risers and everyone else's bars feel skinny to me) and I can get through all the trees. If you're clipping bars at the wide, Lebanon Hills Mountain Bike Multi-Lane Highway System (well, it feels wide compared to Theo, at least), then you just need to get used to the width of your bars :).

What was your old setup like? I'm guessing you're used to narrower bars on it, from what you've said. It sounds like you probably had a longer stem than your current 50mm and a shorter fork than your 130mm. MANY factors are probably in play here making your handling feel funky. But, don't make any changes for a month or so until you've really gotten used to the setup. Right now, if it's brand new to you, you won't be able to judge very well what, if anything, needs to be changed.

[Tetreves]

Wait, wait, wait....several things havn't been mentioned here yet:

A shorter flat bar will in fact make your steering quicker. I find wide bars to be more accurate. Simple: you move your hands farther on a wide bar to turn the wheel the same number of degrees. So a wide bar may give you more precise steering, while a short bar will be faster, and does squeeze through trees easier. This being said, I prefer (as do many others) a narrow flat bar. Also, I think shoulder width varies from one person to another, and so should handlebars for comfort's sake.

Also, check your head tube angle. I found one degree difference can make a HUGE steering difference. Many XC bikes are roughly a 71 deg. angle. While a FR bike is usually 69 deg. or so. Keep in mind that manufacturers spec (or should spec) the length of fork used. A bike designed for a 100mm fork with a 130mm fork suddenly doesn't steer quickly enough. So make sure you have the proper length fork for the frame. Just because you can put a 130mm fork on it, doesn't mean you should, or that it's safe. Head tubes break this way... So check the head tube angle on your bike(s). That's probably all your feeling. Give it time and you'll get used to it. Not every bike will (or should) handle the same. I'd be concerned if a FR bike did handle the same way as an XC racer.

[soupboy]

is mega DH/trials wide. My Answer DH bars on my SS are 27" uncut (no dirty jokes here ChrisD).

Somewhere between 25-27" works for most people unless you're either a) a flat-back XC race geek (roadie with knobbies), b) smaller or narrow shouldered or c) both.

It should only take a few rides to get used to it. You may find yourself positioned further forward in the turns on your FR bike vs. an XC bike as it helps compress the fork, steepen the HA and carve those turns.

[Buck]

I'd say don't change anything for a while, a FR/DH bike is a little more laid back then and XC bike with a more up right position to help you move around the bike better.(like already said below!) Give it a while, get used to the bike, THEN start changing things! Enjoy the new ride!
L8R

Buck

[Trevize1138]

is mega DH/trials wide. My Answer DH bars on my SS are 27" uncut (no dirty jokes here ChrisD).

YOu mean like how a lot of guys at Wirth would really appreciate the uncut thing?

[dave t]

There is a difference in feeling between slow handling caused by geometry and wide bars. If you have adjustable travel on the fork or a lock-down system, you could try running in the short travel setting to see if the slow handling feeling is geometry related. Or, move all your controls in as far as the bars will allow and see how it feels with your hands where they would be with the cut bars. It won't help avoid trees but will help you feel the handling changes.

[LightWeight]

While we're talking (somewhat) about geometry, maybe someone can help me with something. Here is a typical XC bike:

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/76905_exile.jpg

According to Jamis' website, the HT angle is 71.5 and the seat tube is 73

Here is more of a freeride/urban hardtail:

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/769rumble_alchemist_1.jpg

According to the Mountian Cycle website, the head tube angle is 70 and the seat tube is also 73.

Is the handling going to be that much different between these two bikes? I suppose fork length has a lot to do with it, but there shouldn't be that much difference between the two, right?

[manual63]

If you are used to a traditional XC bike, it will take some time getting used to. If it's a freeride hardtail, the frame is probably set up to run the 130mm fork and not make steering too slow. Get used to it and you will love it and be able to throw the bike around better than an XC setup.

Do not cut the bars and do not put a longer stem on. Stick with it and get used to it, you will be happy in the end.

[manual63]

Is the handling going to be that much different between these two bikes? I suppose fork length has a lot to do with it, but there shouldn't be that much difference between the two, right?

The big difference is where your body will be in relationship to the wheels. On a freeride, or On-One setup like my bike, you will be further behind the front wheel and more over the rear wheel. This allows you to be able to control the bike better, especially during more technical moves where you usually have to pull up the front end. If your weight is way over the front wheel like most XC bike setups are, it is much harder to pull up the front wheel and/or keep from going over the bars on steep decents or log roll type things.

So it's not so much the angles, although that plays a big part, as it is the placement of your body in relationship to the wheels. My On-One has a long top tube and I run a super short stem, I think it's a 35mm or something, so I am not way over the front wheel and I can easily get my weight back over the seat. It's got a 71 degree head angle which is pretty nice.

[FSSS]

FWIW, I cut an inch off each side of my bars (on a rigid SS). From 27" to 25" - and I'm liking it.

It may just be in my head, but I'm much faster through the 4 or 5 really tight spots at Theo.

[manual63]

FWIW, I cut an inch off each side of my bars (on a rigid SS). From 27" to 25" - and I'm liking it.

It may just be in my head, but I'm much faster through the 4 or 5 really tight spots at Theo.

Handlebar width is a big area of debate. If you make them too narrow, they don't give you the power to use as leverage when standing. People who are more XC oriented and don't stand much can have an easier time running narrow bars. But singlespeeders and freeriders tend to like wider bars. Wider bars allow you to throw your bike around and allows you to use more upper body leverage during a standing climb.

You shoulder width also plays a big part. If you are a smaller person and have narrower shoulders, you will want you bars narrower so you are not riding with your arms like this ' / \ ' on the bars. You want them to be just slightly out to the sides, but almost straight down. I usually have my elbows slightly bent when I am standing, so my upper arms go out to the sides a little and my forearms are straight down from there. But I have seen a lot of smaller riders who have their arms way out to the sides, they need to cut their bars down to get better control. It is also possible to have them too narrow. This is when your arms are going straight down or even inwards some. Like I said, if you are seated all the time, this isn't a big deal. But as soon as you need to pull up the front end, stand and climb, or maneuver through something......the control will not be there.

A combination of your shoulder width and how you ride should determine how wide you need your bars. Not the idea that narrower bars will clear trees easier. Sure, it's nice, but you can learn to clear trees with wider bars and get all the other benefits of widers bars too.