Singlespeeds are NOT faster than geared bikes

[Trevize1138]

You heard.

It's all placebo, I tell ya. I know several people, including myself, who claim that they ride their single speeds faster than their geared bikes. All bunk. Total bunk.

I'm here to prove to all of you that gears are faster and better. I haven't timed myself between my own SS and my 27 speed, but I can just tell the 27 speed is better.

I have done some computer simulations however, and the results were quite interesting:

http://cerberus.gamershell.com/screenshots/35/1134_full.jpg
Screenshot of complex computer similation
proving SS < geared

The reasoning is simple: you save more energy with gears for the climbing and sprinting needed to be faster. The only reason someone would think they're faster on a singlespeed is because they feel like they *can't* ride slower, otherwise the riders on gears would say "Haw haw! Serves you right for riding a singlespeed, you sucker! Lookit how fast we are with our gears!"

So, do yourself a favor: ride gears and throw that SS away. Discuss.

[mara]

Okay, I'll bite. Maybe like Velcro, calculators, television remotes, and Dingos, the geared bike could be a tool to make people faster and more efficient, but is more likely an excuse to take it easy and not hone their skills.

I find it ironic that even as a lousy climber, I often beat faster and better riders going up hill. It's not that they couldn't kick my butt; it's that they just don't want to bother. I think it's more exhausting to hamster spin up a hill for five minutes than to stand up and climb it in one or two.

[Buck]

what do most of you single speeders run for teeth count?

L8R
Buck

[manual63]

Yeah, a geared bike is faster than a singlespeed. That's why I started in the back of the pack in the chaindrive race and finished in the top 1/4 of the pack, while being one of the few riding a singlespeed.

So since they are faster, why did I pass so many people? It's a mystery to me......maybe they were all hiding in the woods fixing their chain, Derailleur, or just plain adjusting their gears so they don't snap rattle pop anymore.......:D


Oh, at the MI race I ran 32:18. I also ran that in the Black Hills. At Theo I run a 32:16 and I have done both at Leb......not sure which is better/faster yet......but it doesn't matter because geared riders are always faster, but I somehow always beat them to the parking lot.......hmmmmm????

[Kingbozo]

I think it's more exhausting to hamster spin up a hill for five minutes than to stand up and climb it in one or two.

Generally speaking it is just the opposite. You will expend more energy standing and mashing a big gear than sitting and spinning a smaller one.

[mara]

Generally speaking it is just the opposite. You will expend more energy standing and mashing a big gear than sitting and spinning a smaller one.

I'm just talking about me on this one. While I still can't climb worth anything, I'm less bad at it on my single. The spin, spin, spin, ugh too hard, downshift, spin, spin, spin, downshift, repeat cycle wears me out more than just standing up and getting it done.

[bigwheel]

I have a hunch that as a stereotype, singlespeeders ride their bikes a lot more often than the geariers.

[manual63]

Generally speaking it is just the opposite. You will expend more energy standing and mashing a big gear than sitting and spinning a smaller one.

I am going to start disagreeing with this one. Mostly because it's what I used to believe. But, since I have been riding single a lot now and do a lot of standing, I have developed more endurance while standing and can do better standing than sitting and pedalling. I think it's just a developmental skill. If you don't stand while climbing often, of course you will get tired easily doing it since you are not conditioned to it.

By the way, if Mara sucks a climbing, what's that make me.....super sucky at climbing?.....:) She passed me more than a couple times on some climbs in the Black Hills. A few of them were after I dismounted and walked. The downhills were a different story.....:D

[noise_is_life]

My measurement of speed is pretty different than most. As has been previously identified and beaten to death, I'm a slow clydesdale rider, so I'm often working (usually unsuccessfully) to not get dropped off the back of the pack.

When I'm riding SS with gearies I find this to be much easier than when I'm riding gears.

I also tend to have more fun on my SS but that's also dependant on the trail and the day. Leb is pretty damn fun on a fully w/ gears.

...and I haven't gone for that full rigid silliness yet, it's not part of my SS experience.

[Magic]

You can disagree, but science will tell you that your body is most efficient staying seated. Staying seated use's less muscles, which in-turn means your body is using less oxygen. When standing, you are using alot more muscle groups that need oxygen to move the lactic acid in your muscles. So staying seated is the way to go to make your body the most efficient machine it can be. As a ex-roadie, this is what was pounded into our heads by the coach.

[stoneage]

Seated IS better. No doubt. Actually, you are using more muscles when seated, as the hamstrings and shins come into play and you are able to utilize the whole leg stroke more efficiently. Sprinters stand because it is a very short, intense effort that is aided by their upper body. These guys are practically ripping the bars off the stem. You can't do that seated. Seated climbing is much more efficient, and I only stand on the SS if I have to, to get the pedals around (gravity helps in this case). I'm sure I could knock off a minute a lap at Leb with gears, but who cares. I don't use disc wheels, aero helmet and aero bars when I TT on the road either. Dance with who brung ya.

[ppgc]

You can disagree, but science will tell you that your body is most efficient staying seated.

I also found if I don't keep my butt on the seat I spin the crap out of my rear tire on big uphills. As for this discussion, I know I am faster on my geared bike. I can do my same river loop in 45 mins on the gears and 52 mins on the SS. Notice I never said which was more fun though. :crazy2:

-pete

[tedsti]

In the end it really doesn't matter whether gears are faster than SS. What really matters is whether my SS is faster than yours.:D

[GearDaddy]

It's not so much about whether you sit or stand, rather it's the rhythm of your pedalling. When you're grinding up a longish and steep climb, your lactic acid ramp-up is going to be huge whether sitting or standing. I've found that in road races I'm often more comfortable and efficient while standing, as long as I'm keeping a nice and smooth pedalling action. It of course depends on the length and steepness of the climb.

Obviously an SS is at a speed disadvantage when you "spin-out" on a fast downhill. On long and steepish hills the SS is probably going to slow you down too because you won't be able to maintain the "grind" up the hill for too long without going seriously anaerobic. Bottom line - for most road racing, the SS is going to get smoked. However, for most mountain bike races in these parts, where the hills are short and you never really get going that fast, the SS is not going to be that much of a disadvantage.

[mcarples]

It's not so much about whether you sit or stand, rather it's the rhythm of your pedalling. When you're grinding up a longish and steep climb, your lactic acid ramp-up is going to be huge whether sitting or standing. I've found that in road races I'm often more comfortable and efficient while standing, as long as I'm keeping a nice and smooth pedalling action. It of course depends on the length and steepness of the climb.

Obviously an SS is at a speed disadvantage when you "spin-out" on a fast downhill. On long and steepish hills the SS is probably going to slow you down too because you won't be able to maintain the "grind" up the hill for too long without going seriously anaerobic. Bottom line - for most road racing, the SS is going to get smoked. However, for most mountain bike races in these parts, where the hills are short and you never really get going that fast, the SS is not going to be that much of a disadvantage.

The man speaks the truth

[manual63]

You can disagree, but science will tell you that your body is most efficient staying seated. Staying seated use's less muscles, which in-turn means your body is using less oxygen.

But, if you are pushing a harder gear and get to the top quicker, who's to say standing uses more oxygen. I get to the top quicker and stop doing all the hard work and stop breathing heavy sooner then if I used a granny gear. I bet science would say energy = climb. No matter how you use that energy, it probably takes about the same to make the climb......:)

Okay, so I am no scientist....but it sounds good.

[stoneage]

But, if you are pushing a harder gear and get to the top quicker, who's to say standing uses more oxygen. I get to the top quicker and stop doing all the hard work and stop breathing heavy sooner then if I used a granny gear. I bet science would say energy = climb. No matter how you use that energy, it probably takes about the same to make the climb......:)

Okay, so I am no scientist....but it sounds good.
I gotta agree with Shad, here. I think the watts are the same; you just use them a little differently.

[waitabit]

The most important thing here is that when a SSer falls in the woods, nobody hears them.:D

[mara]

The most important thing here is that when a SSer falls in the woods, nobody hears them.:D

Possibly because our derailleurs aren't clanking! :crazy2:

[manual63]

Possibly because our derailleurs aren't clanking! :crazy2:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:....nice!!

[Tetreves]

what do most of you single speeders run for teeth count?

L8R
Buck

Well, I'm not a single speeder, but I still have all of my teeth. I hear some single speeders have lost all but 11 or 12 teeth. How do they still chew their food?

[waitabit]

Well, I'm not a single speeder, but I still have all of my teeth. I hear some single speeders have lost all but 11 or 12 teeth. How do they still chew their food?I live on beer and beer alone.

[Kingbozo]

But, if you are pushing a harder gear and get to the top quicker, who's to say standing uses more oxygen. I get to the top quicker and stop doing all the hard work and stop breathing heavy sooner then if I used a granny gear. I bet science would say energy = climb. No matter how you use that energy, it probably takes about the same to make the climb......:)

Okay, so I am no scientist....but it sounds good.

You need to add the energy expended supporting more of your own weight when you stand to your equation.

[Aaroneous]

I hear some single speeders have lost all but 11 or 12 teeth.

It's certainly an interesting phenomenon, but dental professionals have come to believe it's caused by chewing up gearies.



;)

[stoneage]

You need to add the energy expended supporting more of your own weight when you stand to your equation.
Which is negated by the positive effect that gravity has on the downstroke. I gotta think that is somewhat of an advantage. ????? No clinical facts, but I stand to rest and keep from getting stale, and stay seated for as much as possible.

[seberly]

A long time ago I learned that to get faster on a mountain bike and play with the big boys (like stoneage) when you come to a "short", "steep" hill (this is a general statement) if you stand you don't have to down shift (as much anyway) and you will therefore get to the top faster and I've found by my own heart rate monitor that my heart rate when I get to the top is lower - plus I have the downhill or flat to recover......sitting and grinding up a hill is what you do when you are a beginner, not in shape, or just want to go slow....one mans opinion.

Now when it gets real steep you have to sit to keep traction etc and if you are on a single speed that is when you push.

[Trevize1138]

Which is negated by the positive effect that gravity has on the downstroke. I gotta think that is somewhat of an advantage. ????? No clinical facts, but I stand to rest and keep from getting stale, and stay seated for as much as possible.

I plugged all these factors into a new, more-advanced computer simulation and, yet again, the results are in support of my claim that SS riders are sissies. Consider the following:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/914983_20041026_screen006.jpg
This second simulation shows that the action of gravity and its inverse proportion to blah blah blah ... I'm right ... again.

So, I really don't care if the rest of you *believe* that SS is faster than geared, because I've proven, time and again, that I'm right. Of course, the only thing stupider than a SS bike is a SS rigid bike. Discuss and show your work.

[bikebud]

My experience has been that SS bikes are often faster than their geared counter parts. I've never had to slow down to recover from chain suck, haven't stopped a ride to fix a twisted chain link, and I've never slowed down for a stick lodged in my rear derailleur. I prefer to think of speed in terms of how much time I spend riding now rather than how fast I go in between trail-side repairs.

[Konaboy]

I live on beer and beer alone.

Its a sandwich in every can.:D

[flombe]

...that all of you (including me!) let ChrisD drag you into this pointless discussion. Having said that, I have learned something new and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I can't wait to read the SS fully rigid discussion!

My recommendation - when you get tired of the SS thing, gear up with the new SRAM stuff. Trouble free after 100's of off-road miles this year.

[Buck]

ok so you guys run only one gear and think you are badass cool I see that. But as I rallied LHs this evening I couldn't help but think you guys are on 20pdish bikes with no gears...ok cool don't understand how that makes you cooler or special or whatever...but as far as gearing goes I ride 40t up front and usually like 14 or lower out back, and I do fine on all the trails I ride with that set up...and my bike weights twice as much as yours and I can go faster then some of you...please explain why SS makes so much sense and is so cool or better or whatever??? I don't get it I guess.
Thanks
L8R
Buck

[FSSS]

ok so you guys run only one gear and think you are badass cool I see that. ...and my bike weights [weighs] twice as much as yours and I can go faster then [than] some of you...please explain why SS makes so much sense and is so cool or better or whatever??? I don't get it I guess.


You ride your 50+ lb. bike on XC trails and you think you're badass cool, I see that. ;)

Can you explain why riding a 50+ lb. bike on XC trails "makes so much sense and is so cool or better or whatever???"

Many different trails.
Many different riders.
Many different riding styles.
Many different bike set-ups....

To each their own.


The reasons I like singlespeeds:
- The simplicity (from maintenance, durability, and aesthetic perspectives).
- Singlespeeds are lighter.
- There is less to think and/or worry about mechanically while riding.
- Singlespeeds are quieter.
- I like the DIY aspect of SS conversions.
- It adds challenge when you ride trails with only one gear.
- I feel 9-speed cassettes are beyond overkill. I'd be happy with a 6-speed cassette on my geared bike.

A bit off topic here, but...
I think the rise in popularity of singlespeeds is a direct result of Shimano trying to jam the "next best thing" down everyone's throat each year. Shimano has been fixing things that aren't broken for years now. In some respects, it seems they are letting the desire to release the "next best thing" (from a marketing standpoint) drive their product design. I don't see them striving that hard to build parts that will perform (and last) in the real world. In some sense, I think singlespeeds are a form of rebelling against this trend.


P.S. You won't really understand the appeal of a singlespeed until you try it.


tp

[noise_is_life]

P.S. You won't really understand the appeal of a singlespeed until you try it.


There is definitely a Zen to single speed riding, people look for all kinds of computer simulations and logical reasons to ride (or not ride) a singlespeed, but when it comes down to it, it's all about the ride.

There does seem to be an incredeble amount in growth around here lately, I'm curious if it is widespread in the MTB community as a whole.

[dave t]

But, if you are pushing a harder gear and get to the top quicker, who's to say standing uses more oxygen. I get to the top quicker and stop doing all the hard work and stop breathing heavy sooner then if I used a granny gear. I bet science would say energy = climb. No matter how you use that energy, it probably takes about the same to make the climb......:)

Okay, so I am no scientist....but it sounds good.

I believe there is something to this too. Back when I had time to ride a lot, I used to upshift and explode up the steep hills (remember those) as hard as I could. It was an intense effort but pretty short and I had a quick recovery so it worked well for me. I couldn't tell you if it was really better but it worked for me and got nasty climbs over in no time which made my ride more enjoyable (I'm not one to pretend that I love to suffer through a grinding climb).

Fun is probably what makes any ride seem faster anyway so go have fun and you will cover the miles in a flash

[stoneage]

I think we had a jump on the scene because of the QBP boys; Gray Boy, Wakeman, etal. Pete Zeigle won the Buck series overall, 8 or 9 years ago on a single, then it started to grow pretty quickly. At the Laramie Range Enduro (110K) 6 years ago, there were only 3 SS out of 450 riders, and last year there were over 75, and one of them was second overall. The first SSWC was in NoCal the same year, but Minneapolis had 9 riders there, by far the biggest single contingent, and hosted SSWC2. Again, it's the motor not the bike, as shown by Creepy Friendly at Sha Wah Mee Gone. He beat a couple thousand dualies with gears. 5th or 7th overall on a rigid SS? Yikers!!!!

[Magic]

Why do I ride a 7" front travel HT, because I can. And Tall Pete's statement about SS being lighter, NOT. There are some XC bike's that are very lite. Granted not ALL of them are, but I'm nit-picking on that subject. I get your gist Tall Pete. And all this talk about mechanical problems us Der. guys have, funny I don't have this problem. It's called bike maintenance, try it before you hit the trails it works wonders. I'll give you SS's the nod on the bikle don't make much noise. Also this talk of " oh I have to shift at this next hill", I don't get it. Biking is natural to me, I don't think about what gear I'm in or what gear I need to be in. Relax your mind, you're putting to much thought into biking. But I hear all of ya, it's just cool that we all are riding, no matter what we ride. See ya all out on the trails, I'll be the one on the 40 lbs. bike making all the noise in the woods.:etard:

[Trevize1138]

I can't believe you're all still debating this when I proved it with the first post that SSers are slow. I wouldn't be caught dead on a SS bike.

[Magic]

See what you started Chris, you have been spending to much time with Shad. He is starting to rub off on you.:)

[Shickdawg]

I can't believe you're all still debating this when I proved it with the first post that SSers are slow. I wouldn't be caught dead on a SS bike.
I'm torn. Your simulations are quite convincing. However, Shad and Mara kicked my butt at the Chain Drive, and I'm sure James would have too had his bike not exploded.

[EmL34]

Yeah, a geared bike is faster than a singlespeed. That's why I started in the back of the pack in the chaindrive race and finished in the top 1/4 of the pack, while being one of the few riding a singlespeed.

So since they are faster, why did I pass so many people? It's a mystery to me......maybe they were all hiding in the woods fixing their chain, Derailleur, or just plain adjusting their gears so they don't snap rattle pop anymore.......:D


Oh, at the MI race I ran 32:18. I also ran that in the Black Hills. At Theo I run a 32:16 and I have done both at Leb......not sure which is better/faster yet......but it doesn't matter because geared riders are always faster, but I somehow always beat them to the parking lot.......hmmmmm????

I don't think it's placebo...it's self selection. Only above average riders would consider 1x1. Your results do not prove to me that 1x1 is faster, they suggest that the benefit of gears is not as great as some would think.

[EmL34]

I gotta agree with Shad, here. I think the watts are the same; you just use them a little differently.

Total watts up the hill are the same or similar, but the rate and peak in which you need them are different. It makes no difference though, if you have a gear that you can't push up the hill.

[EmL34]

A long time ago I learned that to get faster on a mountain bike and play with the big boys (like stoneage) when you come to a "short", "steep" hill (this is a general statement) if you stand you don't have to down shift (as much anyway) and you will therefore get to the top faster and I've found by my own heart rate monitor that my heart rate when I get to the top is lower - plus I have the downhill or flat to recover......sitting and grinding up a hill is what you do when you are a beginner, not in shape, or just want to go slow....one mans opinion.

Now when it gets real steep you have to sit to keep traction etc and if you are on a single speed that is when you push.

Same is true on gears. Normally I shift 2 rings into a harder to pedal gear, then get out of the saddle...

[FSSS]

And Tall Pete's statement about SS being lighter, NOT.

Take ANY bike, take the derailleurs, shifters, extra cogs/chainrings, and cables off and it WILL BE LIGHTER.

:kiss:

[FSSS]

It's called bike maintenance, try it before you hit the trails it works wonders.

Even the most impeccably maintained bike can have a mechanical out on the trail. Pre-ride bike maintenance has little to do with crashes, sticks caught in derailleurs, etc.

[manual63]

I feel like my singlespeed is much more efficient than a geared bike. I felt that even when I made my P.2 a single. Now I converted my On-One to a singlespeed and it feels soooo good. I can power that thing up hills quite well while standing without getting more tired than if I had a geared bike. Sure, a geared bike might be able to do steeper climbs, I will give it that, but besides that, I don't think there is any advantage to having a geared bike.

In the Blacks Hills, Ryan had his geared bike. He could out climb us singles on the super steep stuff, but then was dead at the top. On the regular stuff, we were all about equal and Mara and I stand when we climb, James sits while being single and Ryan used his lower gears and I think sat most of the time. But we all seemed to stop and rest at the same places, except James sometimes......who seemed to out climb all three of us.

Gears have a slight advantage is only a few small areas, but riding single has so many advantages over having gears that I prefer to ride single now. I like the simplicity and the riding style I have developed. Much like how I used to ride my BMX bike around. I can stand and climb and I don't burn out any faster then when I was sitting and climbing with gears......and I get to the top faster now......:)

[FSSS]

See ya all out on the trails, I'll be the one on the 40 lbs. bike making all the noise in the woods.

I might be right there with ya.

That is the nice thing about bikes, they aren't too expensive... you can have more than one! I enjoy having the option of riding a long travel 40+ lb. bike, or maybe a FSSS, or maybe a fully rigid SS. Variety is the spice of life, as they say.

Like I said before;

Many different trails.
Many different riders.
Many different riding styles.
Many different bike set-ups....

To each their own.

And you won't really understand the appeal of a singlespeed until you try it.

[Tex]

So are Singlespeeds only faster in the dirt, or can we apply all these same arguments to road riding as well? If so, why then don't the top riders in, let's just say the Tour de France, all riding singles? You can't tell me there isn't a mechanical "advantage" to having several gears to choose from. However, it's just not that big of a deal when an average hill climb in this area only takes less than a minute to climb. Now when you come to a climb that takes you, let's say, twenty minutes to climb, and has an average grade of 7%, then you'll be wishing for an easier gear. So unless you have a vise and an extra freewheel in that camelback of yours, you're out of luck.

Singlespeeds have their place, attached to a 20" wheel.:D

[GearDaddy]

... I feel like my singlespeed is much more efficient than a geared bike.... <snip .=""> But we all seemed to stop and rest at the same places... <snip .="">

"stop and rest"? LOL. I think I see a major flaw in your analysis.</snip></snip>

[manual63]

"stop and rest"? LOL. I think I see a major flaw in your analysis.

Yeah....I see your point....but I guess I mean as far as power transfer. Like it feels more solid. I know I get to the top faster using about the same amount of energy. I am equally as tired as I would be if I granny geared it.....if that makes any sense at all.......:laugh::)

[Konaboy]

So are Singlespeeds only faster in the dirt, or can we apply all these same arguments to road riding as well? If so, why then don't the top riders in, let's just say the Tour de France, all riding singles? You can't tell me there isn't a mechanical "advantage" to having several gears to choose from. However, it's just not that big of a deal when an average hill climb in this area only takes less than a minute to climb. Now when you come to a climb that takes you, let's say, twenty minutes to climb, and has an average grade of 7%, then you'll be wishing for an easier gear. So unless you have a vise and an extra freewheel in that camelback of yours, you're out of luck.

You can compare someone riding a few laps faster at Wirth and riding a mountain stage faster at the Tour de France, but it's not an apples to apples camparison. They're just a tad different. ;) I don't think anyone (anyone sane, that is) wants to make a 20-60 minute, 7% grade climb on a singlespeed bike, at least when you are given a choice (remember in the beginning years of the tour they only had fixed gear bikes).

There is a mechanical advantage to having multiple gear ratios. In the past couple of years Postal would take advantage of that by installing mtb cassettes (which have lower ratios overall) on their rider's bikes during steep climbing stages at the tour and vuelta. Heras would ride away from other riders who didn't have the same set up on the steep climbs.

Geared bikes have their place. They're just not needed a whole lot around here IMO.

Singlespeeds have their place, attached to a 20" wheel

I disagree, but different strokes for different folks.:D

[mcarples]

My final opinion, tell me what you think...

Gears are faster, if and only if the rider pushes himself to push a big gear up a hill. The extra speed comes from being able to push a real big gear on the downhill.

Singlespeeders probably are faster for this reason only....They are forced to push bigger gears uphill. Its too easy to downshift on a gearbike, and therefore, climb slower.

Scientifically, Geared bikes are faster....however, SSers push themselves more and therefore ride faster (assuming they have the right gear ratio, possible 2x1)

[mcarples]

My final opinion, tell me what you think...

Gears are faster, if and only if the rider pushes himself to push a big gear up a hill. The extra speed comes from being able to push a real big gear on the downhill.

Singlespeeders probably are faster for this reason only....They are forced to push bigger gears uphill. Its too easy to downshift on a gearbike, and therefore, climb slower.

Scientifically, Geared bikes are faster....however, SSers push themselves more and therefore ride faster (assuming they have the right gear ratio, possible 2x1)

I forgot to add that this only applies to short climbs. Go out west and climb some thing with a 4 or 5% grade for a half hour, and tell me how it feels on a single.

[bigwheel]

So when we ride together on Saturday, just remember that the reason I can't keep up is because I'm not riding a single speed. In fact, I must be pretty amazing to even attempt to ride with all those excess gears.

[mara]

I forgot to add that this only applies to short climbs. Go out west and climb some thing with a 4 or 5% grade for a half hour, and tell me how it feels on a single.

After having ridden my single only twice, I took it to Fruita for a week of riding. It felt good. The Stumpy has been holding up a wall in my bike room ever since.

[stoneage]

climb some thing with a 4 or 5% grade for a half hour
The Laramie Range Enduro had a 6.5 mile 4-5% climb and a lot of steeper 1/2-1 mile climbs, including this "Jesus,Mary,Joseph" 20% 1/4 miler. 34-18 and I finished 103 out of 450. I don't think 5% made the 20, gears or not, though.

[bigwheel]

The Laramie Range Enduro had a 6.5 mile 4-5% climb and a lot of steeper 1/2-1 mile climbs, including this "Jesus,Mary,Joseph" 20% 1/4 miler. 34-18 and I finished 103 out of 450. I don't think 5% made the 20, gears or not, though.

I have yet to find a bike trail with a hill too steep for me to walk my bike up.

[Ish]

I forgot to add that this only applies to short climbs. Go out west and climb some thing with a 4 or 5% grade for a half hour, and tell me how it feels on a single.

Just got back from doing this in a single gear - my granny:D
22x34 baby!!!!
At 10,000 to 11,000 ft it is kinda hard to find enough oxygen to push a big gear......

[EmL34]

My final opinion, tell me what you think...

Gears are faster, if and only if the rider pushes himself to push a big gear up a hill. The extra speed comes from being able to push a real big gear on the downhill.

Singlespeeders probably are faster for this reason only....They are forced to push bigger gears uphill. Its too easy to downshift on a gearbike, and therefore, climb slower.

Scientifically, Geared bikes are faster....however, SSers push themselves more and therefore ride faster (assuming they have the right gear ratio, possible 2x1)

The riders are faster, the bikes are not?

[stoneage]

As anyone can readily see, this argument comes to a quick halt when the facts are laid out in black and white:
Qualitative analysis (http://24.118.138.77/~williamoreilly/stupid.jpg)

[jjrsds]

Bill, thanks for the laugh and nice QUALITATIVE ANALYSIS. Singlespeeds aren't stupid just the riders (yes I own a singlespeed and therefore include myself in my last comment).:D

[mcarples]

The Laramie Range Enduro had a 6.5 mile 4-5% climb and a lot of steeper 1/2-1 mile climbs, including this "Jesus,Mary,Joseph" 20% 1/4 miler. 34-18 and I finished 103 out of 450. I don't think 5% made the 20, gears or not, though.

Bill...you don't count, you're not human with your SS skills.