The Official 2005 Tour De France Thread

[berrywise]

Everyone have their Tivo's setup to record? Tour starts up tomorrow! Ulrich had a prerace crash (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2005/news/story?id=2098527) but no major injuries. Armstrong did the same but sounds like he should be all but healed up. Who are the other favorites this year? Will Lance continue to dominate or will it be a closer race this year? Who has the strongest team? Let's get some chatter going!

[Magic]

I think Beloki will do well against Team Lance. It's a short course this year at just over 2,200 miles. The mountain stages this year are going to be tough. They have two climbs in one day that don't even have a ranking. Herra, Lance's old teammate might also be a darkhorse. This is Ullrich's year to show that he is more than a bridesmaid. Second place in five tours must eat at the mind. It will be a good tour.

[mdesorcie]

Ivan Basso. Only rider last two tours to hang with Lance in the mountains, and he's a decent TT'er.

[Wolfchimp]

I watched a bunch of last year because we always had it on in the shop i worked at. This year....itll be another story. No cable for me at my place and the shop i'm working part-time at doesnt have any tvs set up. Oh well.

[transplant]

This is Ullrich's year to show that he is more than a bridesmaid. Second place in five tours must eat at the mind. It will be a good tour.

No to mention he said he really wants to win the Tour with Lance present. For him, to win without Armstrong in the peloton would probably be a hollow victory. That's a strong motivator, one last chance to beat the man who continually beats you before he retires. I still give it to Lance.

[EmL34]

I watched a bunch of last year because we always had it on in the shop i worked at. This year....itll be another story. No cable for me at my place and the shop i'm working part-time at doesnt have any tvs set up. Oh well.

Go to the TdF website and hit refresh every 30 seconds or so...almost as exciting.

[SPR]

Look out for the naked Bobke!!!! :crazy2:

[berrywise]

Tour Trivia (thought I don't have the answer, just curious): Who has won the most stages in a single tour? Who has won the mos stages combined in a career?

[homebrewbiker]

No to mention he said he really wants to win the Tour with Lance present. For him, to win without Armstrong in the peloton would probably be a hollow victory. That's a strong motivator, one last chance to beat the man who continually beats you before he retires. I still give it to Lance.

I read somewhere that Ullrich is in very good shape this year and Lance has not done a lot of racing gonig into the Tour. This could be Ullrich's best chance to win for awhile. I have a suspicion that Lance is not as mentally into the race this time as he has been in years past.

[berrywise]

I read somewhere that Ullrich is in very good shape this year and Lance has not done a lot of racing gonig into the Tour. This could be Ullrich's best chance to win for awhile. I have a suspicion that Lance is not as mentally into the race this time as he has been in years past.

Is Ulrich number on on the T-Mobile squad this year? With Kloden finishing ahead of him last year do you think that had any effect on team strategy?

[hockeynut]

Is Ullrich number one on the T-Mobile squad this year?

At least the T-Mobile camp is saying he's the top dawg. They even left off the grizzled sprinter Zabel to try and buck up Jan's yellow jersey hopes.

In my mind I don't see that Armstrong losing is a possibility (I guess the possibility is there, but it includes multiple bikes breaking, crashes etc).

The only question left to be answered is how many times will Paul and Phil refer to Ullrich as "the big diesel", and how many times they'll say "the Kaizer is cracked".

My top 5 (like anyone cares): Armstrong, Ullrich (+4.00 mins), Mayo, Basso, Leipheimer

[transplant]

Jan is top dog for T-Mobile. Unlike Tours in the past, Lance didn't run right from the podium to his training bike. He took it easy for a few months before hitting it again. That said, I personally think he is still the one to beat, both mentally and physically.

[Konaboy]

Is Ulrich number on on the T-Mobile squad this year? With Kloden finishing ahead of him last year do you think that had any effect on team strategy?

I believe Ulrich will be number one unless he gets so far out of contention then Kloden and/or Vinokourov will get let loose.

[berrywise]

Wow! Lance putting the hurt on Jan already in the first stage. Another American in the yellow jersey. Anyone else feel proud to be an American more than any other time when watching the tour for some reason? I was just talking to my roommate how I actually could see myself chanting USA at the t.v and not find it corny. Hah! It has begun!

[nigel]

I just hope this one is not as boring and predictable as the last few *yawns* However, Jan will be riding the best bikes in the tour!

[stoneage]

Closed my thread on the TdF. Hi guys!!!
The average speed of the rider with the best time, Dave Zabriskie (USA - CSC) is 54.68km/h. This is the fastest average speed of any rider in a time trial of the Tour de France.
That's 34 MPH for 12 miles for the metric challenged. YIKERS!!!

[stoneage]

Jan will be riding the best bikes
It ain't the bike, it's the motor. But, you have to feel a little sorry for someone who would have been an international star, if not for Lance.
4 of the top 10 were US riders. Julich was 11th and Levi was 14th. Amazing.

[mcarples]

Anyone else disappointed that neither Alp d'huez or Mt. Ventoux are in this tour? In my opinion, those are the toughest, most influential, and fun to watch that the tour has had. I would also like to see Lance redeem himself and finally get a victory on Ventoux.

[gopherhockey]

This may have been asked elsewhere, but does anyone know if they actuall re-pave most of the tour each year?

When i was watching the Giro d'Italia they mentioned that conditions were nowhere near the TDF where they re-pave each year... I assume they just mean any bad spots.

If they do re-pave maybe we should have the Tour d'Rosemount so we can get some roads fixed around here. (and not that stupid tar and rock crap)
Sorry.. back on topic...

[berrywise]

Anyone else disappointed that neither Alp d'huez or Mt. Ventoux are in this tour? In my opinion, those are the toughest, most influential, and fun to watch that the tour has had. I would also like to see Lance redeem himself and finally get a victory on Ventoux.

I agree they are fun to watch especially a time trial to the top but on the otherhand it is nice that they only have them every so often because that way when they do race those routes they are even more fun to watch.

[nigel]

This may have been asked elsewhere, but does anyone know if they actuall re-pave most of the tour each year?

When i was watching the Giro d'Italia they mentioned that conditions were nowhere near the TDF where they re-pave each year... I assume they just mean any bad spots.

If they do re-pave maybe we should have the Tour d'Rosemount so we can get some roads fixed around here. (and not that stupid tar and rock crap)
Sorry.. back on topic...

Some spots are pre-paved if you watch every year you can tell where. The best example of pre-paving i can think of was the Worlds course in Japan, it was built for the race, and it was sweet course!

[stoneage]

I just noticed that CSC has 3 riders in the top 11, including Julich and Voight, along with Zabriskie. The TTT might be a huge factor.

[LightWeight]

If they do re-pave maybe we should have the Tour d'Rosemount so we can get some roads fixed around here. (and not that stupid tar and rock crap)
Sorry.. back on topic...

Amen to that - those rocks have caused 2 flats for me already. There's nothing worse than having tar on your wheels which kicks up all kinds of rocks and other debris...

Back on topic: Today's sprint finish was pretty amazing. I wish I had 1/2 the lungs and legs of either Boonen or McEwen. Or at least a little more time to work on my conditioning....

[stoneage]

I wish I had 1/2 the lungs and legs
Some stats:
* At 35 beats per minute (BPM), Chris Horner (Saunier Duval) and Laurent Lefevre (Bouyges Telecom) both have the lowest resting heart rates.
* And at 7.66 litres, two riders also have the largest lung capacity: Christophe Moreau (Credit Agricole) and Mikel Astarloza (Ag2r-Prevoyance).
* The heaviest rider? No prizes for guessing here: it's big Maggie Backstedt from Liquigas-Bianchi - all 95 kilos of him!
* The lightest? This one's a little trickier: it's Horner's team-mate, Leonardo Piepoli, weighing in at a featherweight 57 kilograms.
* The tallest? The long and lanky Johan Van Summeren, who falls just two centimetres shy of the two-metre mark.
* The shortest? I am Sam, Ag2r-Prevoyance's Samuel Dumoulin.
* The average rider: 1.79 metres tall, weighing 71 kilograms, with a resting heart rate of 50 BPM and a lung capacity of 5.69 litres. The average rider, but by no means average figures!

[noise_is_life]

It's a bummer Petacchi isn't in the tour, It really makes the early stages go by faster when you get to watch a sprinter at his level work the magic. I guess bunch sprints are fun anyway. I miss Cipo.

[mcarples]

Watching these sprints (and last years), I have quickly become a Thor Hushovd fan. How can you not like the big norwegian rumbling towards the line. Also, he's so big I'm scared to root against him.

[SPR]

Tour Trivia (thought I don't have the answer, just curious): Who has won the most stages in a single tour? Who has won the mos stages combined in a career?
Can answer the 2nd one. Eddy Merckx 34 stage wins. I got this out of the official VeloNews TDF guide. It doesn't answer the first question.

[Ish]

However, Jan will be riding the best bikes in the tour!

NOT!!!!!!!:etard:

[Ish]

It's a bummer Petacchi isn't in the tour, It really makes the early stages go by faster when you get to watch a sprinter at his level work the magic.

Totally agree. So, where is AleJet?

[Ish]

Who says sprints aren't a contact sport?



http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/TDF11807041549.jpeg (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/apphoto/wire?id=1300)

[noise_is_life]

Totally agree. So, where is AleJet?

I guess he's taking a break so he can train for the Worlds. It's probably not a bad idea to do it this way if he wants to race in future Tours. I seem to remember Cipo getting passed over on his last competative tour for ditching out after a few stages so that he could do the same thing (which he won).

[berrywise]

What is a good site for live audio of the tour?

[Shickdawg]

I found one from EuroSport, linked on Cycling Fans (http://www.cyclingfans.com/). It's not bad, though the color guy, Sean, is hardly understandable, with a thick Scottish or Irish accent and rambling dialogue.

[gopherhockey]

Lance is back in yellow.

Too bad about Dave's crash... was nice seeing two Americans on top.

[berrywise]

Crash! Oh No Zambriskie crashes in the final kilometers! I hope my Tivo box is running properly at home. Were they trying to keep to high a pace leading through the final turns? I was hoping he would hang onto the yellow a little while longer.

[berrywise]

Lance is back in yellow.

Too bad about Dave's crash... was nice seeing two Americans on top.

Do they have the math figured out to the tenth of a second? I thought Lance as back by two seconds going into the team time trial and Discovery just won the stage by two seconds.


edit:

Ahh I see I thought everyone received their team times and not their actual times.

[stoneage]

... was nice seeing two Americans on top.
Still is....how about 3 of 5.
1. Lance Armstrong (USA - DSC)
2. George Hincapie (USA - DSC) at 55"
3. Jens Voigt (GER) - CSC) at 1’04"
4. Bobby Julich (USA - CSC) at 1’07"
5. Jose Luis Rubiera (ESP - DSC) 1’14"

[stoneage]

New record for a TTT:
57.31 kmh 35.61078 MPH for the metric challenged.

[mcarples]

A week in, who are the contenders to Lance now? I'm thinking Vinokourov might be the one to watch, maybe Ivan Basso... Although neither has shown an ability to stay with Lance throughout the mountains (Basso was close).

Also, I'm interested to see what happens within the T-Mobile team. I'm seeing a giant split occuring when they hit the mountains and the teammates all have to choose either Ullrich or Vinokourov.

[Tex]

Also, I'm interested to see what happens within the T-Mobile team. I'm seeing a giant split occuring when they hit the mountains and the teammates all have to choose either Ullrich or Vinokourov.

Just like in the '86 Tour with the split between Greg LeMond and Bernard Hinault

[Wolfchimp]

Zabriske has to he hurting a little today! Physically and mentally.

[Kingbozo]

Zabriske has to he hurting a little today! Physically and mentally.

I saw that quick shot of him walking towards a vehicle after the race. Pretty sure I wouldn't be going to work the next day.

[Konaboy]

Also, I'm interested to see what happens within the T-Mobile team. I'm seeing a giant split occuring when they hit the mountains and the teammates all have to choose either Ullrich or Vinokourov.

The teammates won't be making that decision, the manager will. :shocked:

Ullrich isn't too far behind so unless something drastic happens the team will probably be riding for him.

[Shickdawg]

I hear that Armstrong declined to wear yellow today, in deference to the way that Zabriskie lost it yesterday. I have to say I think that's great.

At the same time, I wonder if he would afford the same courtesy to say, Jan Ulrich? I'd like to think so.

[Adam Hjelle]

I hear that Armstrong declined to wear yellow today, in deference to the way that Zabriskie lost it yesterday. I have to say I think that's great.

At the same time, I wonder if he would afford the same courtesy to say, Jan Ulrich? I'd like to think so.

He stopped at the 0km mark and put on the yellow.

[Tetreves]

He stopped at the 0km mark and put on the yellow.

He may personally decline to wear yellow, but he still has sponsers to keep happy. They want him on TV with as much time in a yellow jersey as possible. It's advertising.

[Ish]

He may personally decline to wear yellow, but he still has sponsers to keep happy. They want him on TV with as much time in a yellow jersey as possible. It's advertising.

It is "tradition" that if you take the yellow as a result of the leader crashing out, that you don't wear it on the first day. I heard the Tour didn't like this and made him put it on - not his sponsors. I could be wrong though....

[Magic]

McEwen wins today's stage. He came from nowhere with 100m to go and took the win. Lance should still have yellow, they were close to the front.

[Magic]

No it's not tradition to not wear the yellow. It was done out of repsect to the rider that crashed. Just like when one of them crash's, the Peleton will slow the pace so the crashed rider has time to get back into the pack.

[Ish]

No it's not tradition to not wear the yellow. It was done out of repsect to the rider that crashed. Just like when one of them crash's, the Peleton will slow the pace so the crashed rider has time to get back into the pack.

That is what I meant

[Shickdawg]

He stopped at the 0km mark and put on the yellow.
Ah, I was listening to an audio feed, and not watching the video. I must have misheard the announcers.

It is "tradition" that if you take the yellow as a result of the leader crashing out, that you don't wear it on the first day. I heard the Tour didn't like this and made him put it on - not his sponsors. I could be wrong though....
According to VeloNews, it was race officials who weren't happy with the decision, and told him to wear it.

I remember reading in one of Armstrong's books that American fans often don't understand the traditions and politics of European cycling... In some ways, these traditions are anti-competitive to our minds. I think it's a refreshing change, confusing as it might be.

[jeffgude]

From si.com's coverage:

Pretty persuasion

Tour officials convince Armstrong to don yellow jersey

CHAMBORD, France (AP) -- Lance Armstrong didn't want to wear the leader's yellow jersey in the Tour de France on Wednesday -- until race officials asked him to reconsider.

The 33-year-old American set off in his Discovery Channel uniform as the cyclists began a pre-race ride, but race officials stopped everybody before the starting line and asked him to wear it.
The six-time Tour champion took the race lead when his Discovery Channel team won a time trial Tuesday, wresting the jersey from fellow American David Zabriskie, a Team CSC rider who tumbled in a dramatic crash in the final moments of the stage.

Citing "respect" for Zabriskie, Armstrong opted to forego the privilege of wearing the yellow jersey for the fifth stage -- a flat 113.46-mile trek from Chambord Castle to the industrial town of Montargis.

The Tour rule book says the overall race leader "must wear" the yellow jersey. At a brief meeting outside Chambord, race organizers asked Armstrong to wear it, said Tour spokesman Christophe Marchadier.

Before the stage, Armstrong wanted to follow an unofficial tradition by not donning the jersey.

"In light of the tradition of the last 30 or 40 years, no one really takes it if there is a crash" involving the race leader, he told reporters. "We decided to leave it empty today."

[SPR]

I heard that Lance was mad at not winning the prolouge as his plan was to set another record and wear the Yellow form start to finish.
What a greedy bastard...:D
For what it's worth the Tour is all but over. How can anybody catch Lance barring any misfortune to him. His lead is way to high. Just my .02.

[gopherhockey]

Lady luck can cut a minute lead down pretty quick I'd think... thats about all I think he has to worry about.

I heard that Lance was mad at not winning the prolouge as his plan was to set another record and wear the Yellow form start to finish.
What a greedy bastard...:D
For what it's worth the Tour is all but over. How can anybody catch Lance barring any misfortune to him. His lead is way to high. Just my .02.

[SpecHR55]

I liked it when lance passed Ullrich in the TT.:D Also like his Pure Carbon Fiber bike/bikes.

[noise_is_life]

Ugly finish today, major pile up.

[Maria]

I just received this email from the Riverview Theater. Email them if you are interested in watching the Tour on the big screen.
info@riverviewtheater.com

From The Riverview Theater, 3800 42nd Ave S, Mpls:
We are considering showing one or several stages of the Tour de France bicycle race on our movie screen. The stages would be shown live, which means they would begin in the morning, typically around 8am. The most likely stage or stages to be shown would be Saturday or Sunday, July 16-17 or the final stages on July 23 and 24. As in the past, this would be a service to the community with no admission charge.
An event such as this would require a significant change in schedule for our staff, so we would only do this if there is strong interest. Please respond back if you have any comments or suggestions regarding this event. info@riverviewtheater.com

[Magic]

McEwen win's the 7th stage. Many crashes today. Lance should still be the overall leader.

[Tetreves]

I just received this email from the Riverview Theater. Email them if you are interested in watching the Tour on the big screen.
info@riverviewtheater.com

From The Riverview Theater, 3800 42nd Ave S, Mpls:
We are considering showing one or several stages of the Tour de France bicycle race on our movie screen. The stages would be shown live, which means they would begin in the morning, typically around 8am. The most likely stage or stages to be shown would be Saturday or Sunday, July 16-17 or the final stages on July 23 and 24. As in the past, this would be a service to the community with no admission charge.
An event such as this would require a significant change in schedule for our staff, so we would only do this if there is strong interest. Please respond back if you have any comments or suggestions regarding this event. info@riverviewtheater.com

Hey Maria, see this thread (http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13890)

You're welcome to come! Just let me know.

[gopherhockey]

Lance loses the yellow jersey. I don't know about you but it makes me nervous to see all the guys close to Lance sneaking time away. I know.. I know... it only matters who wears yellow on the last day - but it feels almost.. well... cocky in a way to see him give up the jersey confident he'll get it back.

What if he has a bad day or two or a bad spill. What if the guys ahead of him somehow find a way to stick with him through the rest of the stages.

I guess its all a part of strategy.. I myself can't wait to see Lance decide its time to put some time on the rest. Like last year I'm starting to doubt the man's chances.

My tour glass is half empty Lance, climb those dang hills and put some time on the field would ya!?!?! ;)

[berrywise]

Lance loses the yellow jersey. I don't know about you but it makes me nervous to see all the guys close to Lance sneaking time away. I know.. I know... it only matters who wears yellow on the last day - but it feels almost.. well... cocky in a way to see him give up the jersey confident he'll get it back.

What if he has a bad day or two or a bad spill. What if the guys ahead of him somehow find a way to stick with him through the rest of the stages.

I guess its all a part of strategy.. I myself can't wait to see Lance decide its time to put some time on the rest. Like last year I'm starting to doubt the man's chances.

My tour glass is half empty Lance, climb those dang hills and put some time on the field would ya!?!?! ;)

The question is would your rather see a runaway so Lance can easily win his seventh or see some awesome head to head battles that leaves you sitting on the edge of your seat up until the last day only to see Lance lose by a few seconds?

[jeffgude]

Its a long race. Winning one stage or taking the lead at the end of the first week means little in terms of the overall win. Armstrong still has a minute over Vinokourov & more over the rest of the serious contenders.

The poor performance of the Dicovery team on the climbs is a little disconcerting though. I'm sure there was some serious a**-chewing that took place after the Stage 8 performance.

[gopherhockey]

The question is would your rather see a runaway so Lance can easily win his seventh or see some awesome head to head battles that leaves you sitting on the edge of your seat up until the last day only to see Lance lose by a few seconds?

A runaway so I can relax and watch the other great riders battle for the 2nd spot ;)

[Tetreves]

Lance understands the politics of the sport. It helps him to have friends. If he lets some of the other guys get the yellow for a couple days and win a few stages, it keeps them happy (because their sponsors are happy).

If you piss off everyone in the tour, you end up in last place.

[SPR]

The question is would your rather see a runaway so Lance can easily win his seventh or see some awesome head to head battles that leaves you sitting on the edge of your seat up until the last day only to see Lance lose by a few seconds?
Head to head battles for sure. It's too uneventful if he goes unchallenged.
Does anyone else think that Telecom has some secret plan to put the hurt on Discovery? They seem to be sitting quiet however Lance was quite upset when Vinokourov gained some time the other day.
Interesting we have a former BMX rider winning 2 stages and a former mountain biker winning a stage. Those dirt boys...:cool:

[gopherhockey]

Lance understands the politics of the sport. It helps him to have friends. If he lets some of the other guys get the yellow for a couple days and win a few stages, it keeps them happy (because their sponsors are happy).

If you piss off everyone in the tour, you end up in last place.

Maybe he should make Ulrich happy and let him get a few minutes up on him as well then.. you know.. to be friendly and all. :D

I do realize that he is selective about who is allowed to go out ahead.. but its all on assumptions that each person "isn't a good climber" or "isn't a good time trial individual" - I think its fun to see it close and nice that he is "nice" but it just seems like the way to beat Lance would be to surprise him and his team.

[Tetreves]

Maybe he should make Ulrich happy and let him get a few minutes up on him as well then.. you know.. to be friendly and all. :D

Let's not get carried away.

I do realize that he is selective about who is allowed to go out ahead.. but its all on assumptions that each person "isn't a good climber" or "isn't a good time trial individual" - I think its fun to see it close and nice that he is "nice" but it just seems like the way to beat Lance would be to surprise him and his team.

That would be the way to beat him. It's all a poker game, or chess maybe. That's part of what makes it so fun to watch. (That and watching all the roadies fall over while going over a railroad track :laugh: )

[Adam Hjelle]

Rumors flying about Ulrich and some potential injuries. Current speculation is broken ribs...I am sure Team Mobile will be rather quiet on this topic.

[Adam Hjelle]

Lance loses the yellow jersey. I don't know about you but it makes me nervous to see all the guys close to Lance sneaking time away. I know.. I know... it only matters who wears yellow on the last day - but it feels almost.. well... cocky in a way to see him give up the jersey confident he'll get it back.

What if he has a bad day or two or a bad spill. What if the guys ahead of him somehow find a way to stick with him through the rest of the stages.

I guess its all a part of strategy.. I myself can't wait to see Lance decide its time to put some time on the rest. Like last year I'm starting to doubt the man's chances.

My tour glass is half empty Lance, climb those dang hills and put some time on the field would ya!?!?! ;)

Personally, I think it was a great move for Lance not to defend the yellow on stage 9, can't defend all of the break aways, plus after being stranded on an island by his team on stage 8 it helped to get the teams confidence back on 9. The closest real contender is still over a minute back of Lance, so nothing to worry about yet, still lots of racing left.

[Don Youngdahl]

Can we be sure that DSC's poor team performance in stage 8 was for real, or just a ploy by Johan Brunyeel? If Brunyeel could have Lance "play the weak chiocken" (as Laurent Fignon described Greg LeMond's tactics in a previous era)to psych out Ullrich on a climb a year or two ago, why wouldn't he do the same thing with the team as a whole if it could gain them some advantage in succeeding stages? That seems just as plausible to me as the coincidence that the whole team had "bad legs" on the same day, or that there was some mix-up on who was assigned to be the chief chasers that day. The risk of real damage by leaving Lance isolated in a moderate climbing stage like that was small, considering the relative performances of Lance and his rivals in earlier stages.

Don Youngdahl

[stoneage]

a ploy
That's what I'm going with. DSC is the strongest team, with two of the strongest climbers, other than Lance, and there is no reason to believe that they weren't playing possum the other day. ;) Could be wrong, but I don't think so. :D

[Tetreves]

Can we be sure that DSC's poor team performance in stage 8 was for real, or just a ploy by Johan Brunyeel? If Brunyeel could have Lance "play the weak chiocken" (as Laurent Fignon described Greg LeMond's tactics in a previous era)to psych out Ullrich on a climb a year or two ago, why wouldn't he do the same thing with the team as a whole if it could gain them some advantage in succeeding stages? That seems just as plausible to me as the coincidence that the whole team had "bad legs" on the same day, or that there was some mix-up on who was assigned to be the chief chasers that day. The risk of real damage by leaving Lance isolated in a moderate climbing stage like that was small, considering the relative performances of Lance and his rivals in earlier stages.

Don Youngdahl

That's a good point. I don't think that any of the other serious yellow contenders can afford to (or will) underestimate DSC. They obviously know they're strengths, and can exploit them at will.

Lance was safe at the front of the Peloton on stage 8, even though alone.

Time will tell...

[SPR]

Can we be sure that DSC's poor team performance in stage 8 was for real, or just a ploy by Johan Brunyeel? If Brunyeel could have Lance "play the weak chiocken" (as Laurent Fignon described Greg LeMond's tactics in a previous era)to psych out Ullrich on a climb a year or two ago, why wouldn't he do the same thing with the team as a whole if it could gain them some advantage in succeeding stages? That seems just as plausible to me as the coincidence that the whole team had "bad legs" on the same day, or that there was some mix-up on who was assigned to be the chief chasers that day. The risk of real damage by leaving Lance isolated in a moderate climbing stage like that was small, considering the relative performances of Lance and his rivals in earlier stages.

Don Youngdahl

I agree, Lance and Johan are good at using the media to throw off the competition.
What's up with the peloton, when the other day they crashed on the RR tracks. I thought it was common knowledge that the safest line over tracks is perpendicular especially in wet conditions. Lance knew this and sprinted from the pack so he could cross at a 90 degree angle. It seems the Tour teams just don't prepare adequate enough to ride the TDF. Like a couple years ago in a mountain stage that had some steep inclines, rider after rider were being dropped because they had the wrong gears, meanwhile the Posties were climbing away from everyone else. I would think a closer look at a profile map might warrant a better selection in gears. Oh well just my 2 cents.

[SpecHR55]

Did u know that lance exerts 50% more air than a fit 20 yr. old when he breaths out. yeah he's a beast.

[berrywise]

I would think a closer look at a profile map might warrant a better selection in gears. Oh well just my 2 cents.

Where the t.v coverage of the singlespeeders? Do they have a singlespeed class?

[GearDaddy]

Where the t.v coverage of the singlespeeders? Do they have a singlespeed class?

Ha Ha. Well the singlespeeders basically got their a**es handed to them in about 1937 when the new fangled "parallelogram derailleur" was introduced. Actually, the singlespeeders were "dual speeders". They rode the flats on one gear, and then when they got to the mountains they got off their bikes, removed their rear wheels, flipped them over and remounted the wheel, and then rode a different gear on the other side of the hub. Even then, they ended up doing a considerable amount of walking with their bikes up the mountain passes. Sounds like fun, eh? ;)

[SpecHR55]

[QUOTE=GearDaddy]Ha Ha. Well the singlespeeders basically got their a**es handed to them in about 1937 when the new fangled "parallelogram derailleur" was introduced.

Back in my day we ain't have no fancy "parallelogram derailleur" whatchamacallit.
We used good old fashioned singlespeeds. and climbing up the mountain is the best part of the race!! You and your darn new gadgets and thingamabobs are to new. we need get to older i tell you.

Vote JFK

[Kosk]

Following velonews.com live feed....said a couple guys trying to bridge were doing 105kph down the mountain, thats 65mph, on a road bike, with only lycra and a helmet, SWEET!

[berrywise]

Following velonews.com live feed....said a couple guys trying to bridge were doing 105kph down the mountain, thats 65mph, on a road bike, with only lycra and a helmet, SWEET!

The race must have hit a lull. The velonews guy/girl just posted this haha:

3:49 p.m. - The peloton is growing as riders dropped on the climb are coming back on.

Brochard has been joined by Luis Sanchez. One reader wrote in with the suggestion that the Tour awards a jersey to the best-placed mullet in the Tour, by the way. Sponsored by Lynard Skynard, the "Freebird" jersey would be awarded using a complex formula based on the relationship of hair in front and back and overall time.

[gopherhockey]

This from a popular French sports newspaper sent to me by my colleague in Paris.

(poorly translated by Google)

IT A THUS BEEN ENOUGH to a simple master key of weapons, Saturday, in the collar of Schlucht, with thirty kilometers of Gérardmer, of a combined attack of Vinokourov and Klöden, two of the three leaders of the T-Mobile, so that imaginations ignite, and that the hope to see Armstrong finally unbolted of its throne, reappears. It goes from there always thus with the tyrants. Disillusioned by a chronic unpopularity, Jacques Anquetil had preferred to give up the Turn of France, in 1965, knowing that a new duel with Raymond Poulidor of would not have changed anything its reflection in the opinion. Ten years later, Merckx completed the rise of Puy-de-Dome at the edge of the syncope, after a fanatic had taken down a blow of fist to him, "the blow of the hatred", symptomatic of this primary education antimerckxism which prevailed then. With Armstrong, such a danger seems isolated. It does not prevent: its regency inspires in vain by admiration, it causes also trouble, when it is not repulsion or rejection. In this context, the scuffle of Schlucht could not better fall, to revive the flame, to start again the questions about supposed the brittleness of the American, given up by his eight team-members whereas there remained trentecinq runners at the head, and fifteen kilometers to rejoin Gérardmer. Did they fish by pride? Sousestimé potential of their rivals, by forgetting that the fate of the Yellow jersey was sometimes tied in margin of its high historical places? Are they exhausted? Rolled-iron products by the rain, average the record of the first days? "They gave the impression to me to approach the collar of Schlucht without being concentrated, in a kind of lethargy, by thinking that it is not there that the Turn was going to be played. Afterwards, when the brawl burst, they were not able any more to be reactive ", advances Cyrille Guimard, commentator on Europe 1. Merckx: "One day without, they is always contagious. That gives ideas "As Paolo Savoldelli will bring it back, in own way of explanation, this jourlà Rubiera was suffering, Azevedo and Popovych out of the blow, Hincapie had provided many efforts. And itself had not completely digested tirednesses of Giro. As many things as Discovery evoked the evening even with the hotel. "In such a case, each one must analyze its own behavior, say objectively what arrived to him. It is at this price that confidence is reinstalled ", underlines Laurent Fignon, who had known similar situation with the Turn of Italy, in 1989, in the rise of San Pellegrino. "Discovery finally solved the problem by leaving the Yellow jersey to Voigt but, in this case, why Hincapie had rolled the day before, behind same Voigt? To release the Shirt with the foot of the Alps, that really any more does not have of direction... "Consulting with the RTBF, the former winner of the Turn (1983-84) judge" the alarming "situation of Armstrong but in any" alarming "way. He joined in that Eddy Merckx, near to Texan since the time Motorola "the episode of Schlucht is not worrying, says he, but he gives to reflect. "the exCannibale knows, to have tried out it with its costs, into 1971 vis-a-vis Luis Ocaña, which it is" strategically dangerous "to install the doubt in the spirit of its rivals. "One day without, that can arrive but they is always contagious. That gives ideas, and even if Discovery took again the things in hand in the balloon of Alsace, I have the clear impression that Noval and Rubiera are worse. This year, with the absences of Landis (past at Phonak) and Ekimov (casualty), Lance lost two warriors. I am not sure that it replaced them "For Merckx, this alarm will be toutef oi S S has N S idiot séquen C E. Armstrong must expect to undergo a new attack of Vinokourov, as of today in Courchevel. But for the hour, it is him the owner. The man headlight of this Turn "that he wants to really gain, ilmel' said", continues Merckx. On the other hand, the Belgian champion known as surprised, just like Cyrille Guimard, that the press more "did not focus" its attention on the attitude of Jan Ullrich, that one saw rolling in Schlucht behind Vinokourov. Was this intentional? Is it necessary to see there the germ of a larval antagonism between the two T-Mobile? "Nobody really underlined the thing, and yet these fifteen seconds of race are most significant of this beginning of Turn", affirms the former mentor of Bernard Hinault. It sees there the "leg of Armstrong", a champion in full possession of his means, and like always, skilful turning over the situations, even most compromised. In 2001, Armstrong Lance, at best its form, had deceived Jan Ullrich in the collar of Glandon, while pretending to be overpowered by the rate/rhythm of the German (the American gained finally the stage with 1' 59 '' in advance over Ullrich). This time, it would have let leave Klöden to evaluate the reports/ratios of force inside the T-Mobile "I re-examined several times the race, Armstrong seemed to have fun to see Ullrich panicking", theorizes Cyrille Guimard, before adding: "It already exploits the possible division of TMobile, that wants to say that it is at the point: to act thus, in full brawl, it is necessary to be at the same time lucid and terribly serene "the Alps will say to us, as of today, if it saw just. PHILIPPE BRUNEL

[berrywise]

I sure wish I had cable TV right now! This is sounding (reading) like quite the race to the finish!

[LightWeight]

Listen live:

http://www.eurosport.com

It's not Phil and Paul - but the commentary isn't too bad.

[manual63]

Holy Crap.....Lance is pulling on everybody........the dude just rocks!!!

[Don Youngdahl]

[QUOTE=gopherhockey]This from a popular French sports newspaper sent to me by my colleague in Paris.

(poorly translated by Google)

IT A THUS BEEN ENOUGH to a simple master key of weapons, ................./QUOTE]

That's the most hilarious thing I've tried to read since tackling the instruction book on a 1970's vintage item manufactured in Japan.

Don Youngdahl

[Kosk]

5:08 p.m. - Armstrong is sitting at the back of the group, assessing the situation as they pass one of those goofy football helmet dudes, running along with a massive Texas flag.

The commentary today is freakin' hilarious!

[Magic]

Valverde has just won stage 10. It was down to Lance and Valverde, and Valverde out sprinted Lance for the win. Still waiting on the overall leader.

[LightWeight]

Can't wait to actually see this stage tonight. Exciting stuff!

[manual63]

Lance in Yellow and the man is an animal!!!

What's that guy got for blood???

[berrywise]

Ulrich.........DONE......CRACKED.......CURTAINS!

Kloden........DONE......CRACKED.......CURTAINS!

Vino...........DONE......CRACKED.......CURTAINS!

Basso.........DONE......CRACKED.......CURTAINS!

[homebrewbiker]

That's what I'm going with. DSC is the strongest team, with two of the strongest climbers, other than Lance, and there is no reason to believe that they weren't playing possum the other day. ;) Could be wrong, but I don't think so. :D
I was reading in SI waiting for an appointment and Landis was ripping team Discovery, said it is the weakest team Lance has ever had. But this was written before the Tour, just after the Tour de Georgia, so there were some bad feelings towards Lance by Landis.

[Shickdawg]

I was reading in SI waiting for an appointment and Landis was ripping team Discovery, said it is the weakest team Lance has ever had. But this was written before the Tour, just after the Tour de Georgia, so there were some bad feelings towards Lance by Landis.

Wait. I had the impression that the Tour squad was exactly the same as last year, save Ekimov and Landis. While Lance has said over and over that they miss Eki, Popo seems to be pulling his weight quite nicely. And Salvodelli seems to be doing extremely well too -- especially considering he just won the Giro a few short weeks ago. It sounds like some self-aggrandizement on Landis' part.

[Tetreves]

Wait. I had the impression that the Tour squad was exactly the same as last year, save Ekimov and Landis. While Lance has said over and over that they miss Eki, Popo seems to be pulling his weight quite nicely. And Salvodelli seems to be doing extremely well too -- especially considering he just won the Giro a few short weeks ago. It sounds like some self-aggrandizement on Landis' part.

Everyone's jealous of Lance, blah, blah, blah....we've seen this before from other fast riders (such as Lemond).

There's nothing new under the sun.

[mcarples]

I'm excited about Velverde as well as Rasmussen. Its nice to see people that can both hang with and challenge Lance. The next few years sans Lance could be very good.

[hockeynut]

I'm pumped to watch the tape of todays stage... just did 2 laps on Memorial... now gonna sit down and count how many times Liggett and Sherwin say "the Kaizer has cracked"... and how many times they mention that Rasmussen was a mountain biking champ... what a great day....

Glad to see that at least a few riders stuck with Lance... Venga Venga Venga Mancebo and Valverde!!!

Isaac

P.S. Al Trautwig ticks me off something fierce...

[Little D]

Lance in Yellow and the man is an animal!!!

What's that guy got for blood???



EPO :)

Sorry couldn't resist. In all honesty, the man is incredible

[noise_is_life]

P.S. Al Trautwig ticks me off something fierce...

No Sh*t!! Where did they get that guy!

[2BOutside]

Let's hope Lance keeps up today's performance and the Disco boys can keep it up too.

Does anyone know of any bars/places, etc.. that are hosting 'Tour-watching events' locally for any of us who don't get OLN?

[berrywise]

No Sh*t!! Where did they get that guy!

A google search for "Al Trautwig Sucks" brings up over 350 responses. The guy is an old school sports announcer and is way out of his league trying to cover cycling by comparing it to things he knows like baseball and football. The prime time coverage is only worth watching when Phil and Paul are the commentators in my opinion.

[mcarples]

My problem is Bob Roll...I think he does a good job doing the commentating, however, in all his years of being around the tour (racing and with OLN), I woiuld hope that someday he will learn to say tour de france with a little bit of a french accent. It kills me every time that he says tour "dee" france.

[noise_is_life]

My problem is Bob Roll...I think he does a good job doing the commentating, however, in all his years of being around the tour (racing and with OLN), I woiuld hope that someday he will learn to say tour de france with a little bit of a french accent. It kills me every time that he says tour "dee" france.

I like Bob, he provides comic relief, at least he knows cycling, and he's a mountain biker, what's not to like.

[waitabit]

Let's hope Lance keeps up today's performance and the Disco boys can keep it up too.

Does anyone know of any bars/places, etc.. that are hosting 'Tour-watching events' locally for any of us who don't get OLN?The Town Hall Brewery shows it and I think Grumpys in NE shows it.:crazy2:

[homebrewbiker]

I like Bob, he provides comic relief, at least he knows cycling, and he's a mountain biker, what's not to like.

I used to be annoyed by Bob, but now I think he's funny. I guess his books are really good reading also (Bobke and Bobke II).

[berrywise]

I used to be annoyed by Bob, but now I think he's funny. I guess his books are really good reading also (Bobke and Bobke II).

Agreed. I think once you figure out that Bob isn't being ignorant to the fact that he pronounces it wrong and actually has quite a bite of insight into the tour mixed in with a good sense of humour I find him quite entertaining in his role.

[Magic]

Stage 11 winner is Vinokourov (sp.) . He took it to the mountian today. I hope it took something out of him. It seems he might give Lance and the Disco boys some trouble hear in the mountain stages.

[PWAXON]

Stage 11 winner is Vinokourov (sp.) . He took it to the mountian today. I hope it took something out of him. It seems he might give Lance and the Disco boys some trouble hear in the mountain stages.

I'm sure he will be a little more of a marked man again after regaining some time but he still is almost 5 mi down. I want to see Basso mix it up a little.

[PWAXON]

You would think that after 6 years of Armstrong dominating the race that the other teams would figure out the "all for one" formula is the only way thay are going to have a chance. T-Moble should really think about new management!

[nigel]

I am actually quite curious as to How Cadel will finish this year, he's doing nicely so far.

[berrywise]

You would think that after 6 years of Armstrong dominating the race that the other teams would figure out the "all for one" formula is the only way thay are going to have a chance. T-Moble should really think about new management!

I was somewhat excited for yesterdays stage with all the talk of T-Mobile's "3 pronged attack". Using Vino, Ulrich, and Klodon to each attack Lance at seperate times to see if they could break him. But instead (and to my delight) Lance and his boys just kept the pace so high that the T-Mobile squad couldn't attack because they didn't have the juice to do it.

The way Lance was riding yesterday if he keeps that kind of force up the rest of the way he should have his seventh win no problem. I would go as far as to say the dominance he showed against his main competitors yesterday was great enough that an 8th tour victory wouldn't be outlandish, if he wasn't retiring.

[Tetreves]

I was somewhat excited for yesterdays stage with all the talk of T-Mobile's "3 pronged attack". Using Vino, Ulrich, and Klodon to each attack Lance at seperate times to see if they could break him. But instead (and to my delight) Lance and his boys just kept the pace so high that the T-Mobile squad couldn't attack because they didn't have the juice to do it.

The way Lance was riding yesterday if he keeps that kind of force up the rest of the way he should have his seventh win no problem. I would go as far as to say the dominance he showed against his main competitors yesterday was great enough that an 8th tour victory wouldn't be outlandish, if he wasn't retiring.

It's better to retire on a positive note. Undefeated is pretty good. It's unlikely that anyone will win 7 in a row in Lance's lifetime, so why take the chance of 8?

[Shickdawg]

Agreed. I think once you figure out that Bob isn't being ignorant to the fact that he pronounces it wrong and actually has quite a bite of insight into the tour mixed in with a good sense of humour I find him quite entertaining in his role.

Quoted for truth.

Though I still prefer hearing Phil and Paul call the race, and Bob do some color.

[Ish]

In Bobka's words - Trautwig is bad smenge(sp?)!!!

Bobka rules - that guy is a complete nut. I'm sure he kept things interesting when he was riding in the peleton! He also intentially mis-pronouces riders names just to get a rise out of them :)

[waitabit]

In Bobka's words - Trautwig is bad smenge(sp?)!!!

Bobka rules - that guy is a complete nut. I'm sure he kept things interesting when he was riding in the peleton! He also intentially mis-pronouces riders names just to get a rise out of them :)Ya gotta love the hand movements too, I've never seen anybody wave their hands and arms around as much as that guy, its good humor.:p

[berrywise]

It's better to retire on a positive note. Undefeated is pretty good. It's unlikely that anyone will win 7 in a row in Lance's lifetime, so why take the chance of 8?

Oh I agree completely. He has nothing to prove really and thinks it better to go out on top with nothing to prove than to try and extend your streak and fail at this point. I'm just saying that I think if he wasn't gonna retire that he would still probably win another one if he did race.

[Tetreves]

Oh I agree completely. He has nothing to prove really and thinks it better to go out on top with nothing to prove than to try and extend your streak and fail at this point. I'm just saying that I think if he wasn't gonna retire that he would still probably win another one if he did race.

Yes. Probably. :etard:

[noise_is_life]

Yes. Probably. :etard:

Of course everyone that won 5 tours, won right up until they lost, age kills. :D

[mcarples]

No one is talking about the (in my opinion) one threat to lance...Micheal Rasmussen. I'm not doubting that he could take some time from lance in the mtns. However, he stands no chance in that final time trial.

[Don Youngdahl]

He has nothing to prove really and thinks it better to go out on top with nothing to prove than to try and extend your streak and fail at this point.

There is just as much honor in a champion going down fighting as quitting when he's on top. That's why I won't be disappointed if he should lose, as long as he makes a good showing.

Don Youngdahl

[PWAXON]

There is just as much honor in a champion going down fighting as quitting when he's on top. That's why I won't be disappointed if he should lose, as long as he makes a good showing.

Don Youngdahl

I agree one of my favorites is the 96 Tour when Indurain looses to Riis. He was a classy rider. He gave it his all to the end even though he knew he had no way of making op the time he had already lost.

[noise_is_life]

Yeah, really Lance should keep going until he looses, just to give everyone that he has been pounding for the last few years a chance to beat him. Of course it would be none of them that would beat him, it would be some new guy like Rasmussen.

Of course that's easy for us to say, the level of preparation neccessary for the TdF has to get pretty old for as long as Lance has been doing it.

[Magic]

The Disco Team has lost a member. Beltran has dropped out because of a crash on the first climb today.

[homebrewbiker]

No one is talking about the (in my opinion) one threat to lance...Micheal Rasmussen. I'm not doubting that he could take some time from lance in the mtns. However, he stands no chance in that final time trial.

Kind of cool that a former MTB champion is threatening in the TDF ...

[Shickdawg]

Kind of cool that a former MTB champion is threatening in the TDF ...
Yesterday's runner-up, Santiago Botero is also apparently a "recovering" mountain biker. The Eurosport commentators couldn't shut up about his inelegant pedalling style, though they praised his bike-handling skills. Watching him descend the Col de Galibier yesterday and just fly past Vino made me proud to be a fat tire rider.

[stoneage]

Indurain looses to Riis
Riis was so loaded that year, you would test positive after shaking his hand.

[Tetreves]

In case you missed it, Bob explained why he pronounces "Tour De France" as "Tour Day FrAAnce". Al made a bet with Bob, that if Ullrich DIDN'T make the top ten in stage 12, that tomorrow (Stage 13) Bob had to say "Tour De France" instead of "Tour Day FrAAnce".

So tomorrow I'll have to watch so I can laugh at Bob. :D

[noise_is_life]

George H. gets his first tour win and Lance marks Basso.

Great stage.

[jeffgude]

pretty impressive that 5 of the top 20 in GC are Americans.

[stoneage]

That is so cool for George. :) :p :D :cheesy:

[gopherhockey]

That is so cool for George. :) :p :D :cheesy:

It seemed like Pereiro was pretty upset at Hincapie and many did not feel he "deserved" the win.

Yet Pereiro did the same thing today to Evans.

Its tough to know when they should be applying the "honor" thing vs. tactics and just flat out racing to win.

[noise_is_life]

It seemed like Pereiro was pretty upset at Hincapie and many did not feel he "deserved" the win.

Yet Pereiro did the same thing today to Evans.

Its tough to know when they should be applying the "honor" thing vs. tactics and just flat out racing to win.

Yeah, that's BS. George wasn't in the break to win the race, but to support the team. But when it came down to the end he was in a position to win, should he have just given up the opportunity, no, nobody else would of.

The tactics were different because than they are for other teams just because of the team that George is on.

[mcarples]

Is anyone else loving the OLN/Lucky 7 commercials now. Whats better than Paul making fun of Bob..."What have you won Bobby, What have you got?" Priceless

[igor]

I have to agree I love the Trek spots. I like the one where Bob says somelike like, the spoils of success do nothing but spoil you one the best. I also really like the Specialized ads with Levi. Those always make me laugh.

[SpecHR55]

MTB4life99 is in the tonka cycle and ski add. He's in the very beginning taking his bike off a car. You can tell its him by his huge hair.:D Its funny cuz his name is Harry "Harrison".

peace

[Paul Swenson]

Velo news had a couple of Bob Roll quotes on their live update page that I thought were really funny:

"Kilometers passing like Kidney Stones"
"Lance Armstrong is the eye of the hurricane and he's headed straight for the Jan Ullrich trailer park."
"I'd rather be a light post on a New York City street than the French National Champion."
"It will be a virtual schmegefest of submutant humanoids."
My favorite is the Jan Ullrich trailer park quote. If I ever find myself owning a trailer park I’ll for sure know what to name it.:crazy2:

[berrywise]

From Eurosport's live coverage today:

Lance Armstrong is taking it big-time easy, wearing a huge smile on his face and joking with the camera men. The soon-to-be-crowned seven-time Tour winner has just ordered a coffee for him, and a coke for Stuart O'Grady, to be sorted out and ready for pick up at the next village!!

Now that's enjoying your final tour!

[LightWeight]

The last few stages are going to be sort of anti-climactic. It would be more exciting to see Lance win his last tour on one of the final stages - the timetrial perhaps?

[Konaboy]

The last few stages are going to be sort of anti-climactic. It would be more exciting to see Lance win his last tour on one of the final stages - the timetrial perhaps?

I couldn't agree more. It would be nice to see someone put up a challenge to Lance. Watching the race for the remaining podium spots is more interesting.

[Konaboy]

I just read that he is going to leave T-Mobile at the end of the season. Main reason: to be a team leader and win the Tour de France.

Is he sick of having to support Ullrich with no payoff?

Speaking of Ullrich, does he have the worst luck ever, or does T-Mobile management just not know how to motivate him or plan team tactics?

[homebrewbiker]

I just read that he is going to leave T-Mobile at the end of the season. Main reason: to be a team leader and win the Tour de France.

Is he sick of having to support Ullrich with no payoff?

Speaking of Ullrich, does he have the worst luck ever, or does T-Mobile management just not know how to motivate him or plan team tactics?

I have to question Ullrich's biking style at this point. Pushing all of those big gears really seems to be a major disadvantage on the mountains. You see guys pushing smaller gears flying by him because they can get much better acceleration.

[berrywise]

I just read that he is going to leave T-Mobile at the end of the season. Main reason: to be a team leader and win the Tour de France.

Is he sick of having to support Ullrich with no payoff?

Speaking of Ullrich, does he have the worst luck ever, or does T-Mobile management just not know how to motivate him or plan team tactics?

I think the bad luck that Ullrich has is that Lance Armstrong was born around the same time he was. If Lance hadn't come back from cancer Ulrich would be a five time first place finisher or maybe more. I don't think he has the commitment or the team backing that Lance has.

Vino is smart to understand that to win the tour you almost need a dedicated team that isn't worrying about sprinters (Zabel in the past) or having multiple contenders (Ulrich and Kloden).

Anyone have any ideas on who will lead Discovery next year? Another American?

[noise_is_life]

Paul and Phil were just saying that Vino is leaving t-mobile at the end of the season and that he wants to joing Discovery.

I don't see the teem getting behind him like they did Lance though.

[Konaboy]

Anyone have any ideas on who will lead Discovery next year? Another American?

After Sunday, Armstrong was throwing out Hincapie's name. That would be pretty interesting, but I don't think it would happen.

[LightWeight]

Discovery wins another stage!

[Shickdawg]

After Sunday, Armstrong was throwing out Hincapie's name. That would be pretty interesting, but I don't think it would happen.
Interesting fact: Hincapie was Postal's original leader! At least, that's how Armstrong phrased it in It's Not About the Bike, which I'm currently re-reading. The commentators constantly say Hincapie's a Classics kind of guy, though he has spent the last few years mostly keeping up with Lance. I think Hincapie might only be good for another year or two though.

I think they should give Savoldelli a couple years, while they groom Popovych -- who they claim is the replacement. Il Falco won the Giro with little support and took the TdF stage today. Plus, he's already got a cool nickname. :)

I'm a little wary of Vino... He seems to be a good rider, but like most of the other big T-Mobile names, he doesn't seem to be a smart rider. Perhaps a little direction from Johan is all Vino needs to be a dominant rider...

[noise_is_life]

Discovery wins another stage!

Now if Lance could just win one. :)

[SPR]

Does anyone else feel that if Lance would not have announced his retirement before the tour he would have been challenged more? From watching TV coverage it looks like everyone is waiting till next year to go for a TDF win. It seems that the serious contenders have given up. There were a few opportunities when Lance was sans teammates and no teams put in serious attacks. Is Lance and Discovery really that superior or is everyone waiting till next year?
I agree with the post that these last stages are going to be anti-climatic.
In the end, good for Lance to go out on a high note. :) It will be interesting to watch future TDF's. Let's hope OLN (or ?) will continue coverage.

[mcarples]

Il Falco, Popo nad Vino could be a great 1-2-3 punch. T-Mobile has looked great on days when they have had Vino, Kloden, and Ullrich all up fornt...they just needed a little better team strategy to make it work. I think Johan could make it work with three big guns (especially with people like Hincapie, Beltran, Rubiera, and Acevedo backing them up).

On another note, has Benjamin Noval done anything htis year? Is he leading the pack at the beginning of stages which we don't see?

[soupboy]

looks like an amateur out there at times - big potential, terrible execution. His never ending attacks followed by blow-ups followed by...well, you get the drift.

He's like a little brother who is always trying to show you up until you get annoyed and lay down the law.

He's got the desire and talent but no strategy.

I think LA will take the time trial for his lone stage win.

I'm a little wary of Vino... He seems to be a good rider, but like most of the other big T-Mobile names, he doesn't seem to be a smart rider. Perhaps a little direction from Johan is all Vino needs to be a dominant rider...

[jeffgude]

Il Falco, Popo nad Vino could be a great 1-2-3 punch. T-Mobile has looked great on days when they have had Vino, Kloden, and Ullrich all up fornt...they just needed a little better team strategy to make it work. I think Johan could make it work with three big guns (especially with people like Hincapie, Beltran, Rubiera, and Acevedo backing them up).


T-Mobile doesn't seem to have any strategy at all. When one breaks away his teamates chase him down? Whats up with that? Sounds like they had a couple chances to gang up on Lance this year and they squandered them. Sounds like poor coaching.

[soupboy]

"...The move by Vinokourov in the closing kilometers was prompted by a crash in the peloton. The Kazakh champion has elevated himself from ninth overall to seventh because of his attack at the end of stage 17..."

I thought it was an unspoken rule that you do not attack because of a crash.

More cheese to go with the Vino.

[SPR]

T-Mobile doesn't seem to have any strategy at all. When one breaks away his teamates chase him down? Whats up with that? Sounds like they had a couple chances to gang up on Lance this year and they squandered them. Sounds like poor coaching.
I believe his teammates are mad because he prematurely announced he's jumping ship next season. Also sounds like Discovery is not interested in him.

[SPR]

"....
I thought it was an unspoken rule that you do not attack because of a crash.

...
It depends on who you ask.

[gopherhockey]

I have a question.



Has the tour ever considered awarding points and/or time to riders that consistently hold time in the lead?



By that I mean a rider who busts his you-know-what all day long then gets passed at the very end currently is not rewarded. If they gave time bonuses and/or points it would actually give some incentive to be in the lead – other than just the typical working in cooperation.



Riders could still draft to the end, but the guy doing all the pulling could slowly be awarded time bonuses chopping away at the lead.



Riders like Ivan B. could try lead up a hill stage and chip away at Armstrong in the process, forcing Lance to do his share. (not that he doesn’t… )

(not talking just the most aggressive rider award, which doesn't seem to really hold much value)

[noise_is_life]

The closest thing they have to that is the recognition of the most combative rider after every stage, but there is no jersey for that.

Break away riders will also pick up sprint points, but they usually get overwhelmed by the finish line sprint points won by the major sprinters.

[noise_is_life]

The other thing that the leading rider gets is TV time, which is just as important as official recognition in pro cycling.

[EmL34]

I thought it was an unspoken rule that you do not attack because of a crash.



I think this only applies (unofficially) to the Maillot Jaune.

Word is Vino will ride for Discovery next year.

[stoneage]

The other thing that the leading rider gets is TV time, which is just as important as official recognition in pro cycling.
It's all about the money. Huge bonuses from the sponsors if you stay up front all day.

[mcarples]

I'm constantly amazed by Vinokourov...you never know what your gonna get with him. Two stage wins is pretty impressive along with a top 5 finish.

On another note, how sharp did lance look with the black helmet with a gold star on it.

[stoneage]

I'm constantly amazed by Vinokourov...you never know what your gonna get with him. Two stage wins is pretty impressive along with a top 5 finish.
He is an opportunist, for sure, but THAT was a meltdown of the Gerolsteiner team. They should have been protecting their leader,Levi, and lost a podium spot because of it. Just plain stupid!!!!! What the hell were they thinking?

:confused:

[homebrewbiker]

The last TT was amazing, both for the ability of Lance to judge what was required to win and for the comedy of errors that was Rasmussen's ride. What was the total, 2 crashes 4 bikes and who knows how many 4 letter words thrown at the team manager.

Vino would look great in a team Discovery jersey.:banana:

[gopherhockey]

He is an opportunist, for sure, but THAT was a meltdown of the Gerolsteiner team. They should have been protecting their leader,Levi, and lost a podium spot because of it. Just plain stupid!!!!! What the hell were they thinking?

:confused:

I don't know if it was true or not, but OLN seemed to think that all points and time bonuses had been cancelled. It appeared that the race officials made this announcement, then never told the riders that points were back on when it dried out... so Levi got screwed (if that was the case)

I'd like to know the truth... if it is true they just decided to give points last minute without informing the riders I'll be very dissapointed. Not that Vino didn't deserve it (or he probably would have gotten it anyway) but nothing upsets me more than things that are decided by officials making things up as they go.

Again, I don't know if this is the case because OLN, IMHO, did a REALLY poor job of conveying that whole situation. They would say all points and time bonuses are off, but not explain why the finish was still so important for the green jersey... then they would say it was just time bonuses that were off, but not say for sure if points were on.

I have a feeling OLN blew the coverage more than the officials.

[Little D]

Saw the movie "Hell on Wheels" Saturday.

It's about the 2003 Tour where they follow two T-Mobile racers through the race. If you don't respect the 'roadies'; watch this and if you still don't, then I don't know what to tell ya.

[SpecHR55]

Lance has 83 YJ, and Merckx has 111. One more tour and he's got that record.:)

[homebrewbiker]

Saw the movie "Hell on Wheels" Saturday.

It's about the 2003 Tour where they follow two T-Mobile racers through the race. If you don't respect the 'roadies'; watch this and if you still don't, then I don't know what to tell ya.

Is this a new movie? I couldn't find it on Netflix

[Paul Swenson]

Is this a new movie? I couldn't find it on Netflix

It played at the Bell Auditorium, but I think its run is over. I really wanted to see it, but between our new baby and the brother-in-law being in town I didn't have time. Hopefully Netflix will have in the future.

[gopherhockey]

Lance has 83 YJ, and Merckx has 111. One more tour and he's got that record.:)

That is assuming there were more stages than a normal tour... so 2 more tours and he'd be set!

Seems like one record he doesn't care to beat though.

[noise_is_life]

That is assuming there were more stages than a normal tour... so 2 more tours and he'd be set!

Seems like one record he doesn't care to beat though.

Yeah, he beat the record that even the Cannibal couldn't. Of course thats a little bit of an apples to oranges comparison since Merckx also won 5 Giro's and Lance has always focused 100% of his energy on the Tour.

[stoneage]

I don't know if it was true or not, but OLN seemed to think that all points and time bonuses had been cancelled. It appeared that the race officials made this announcement, then never told the riders that points were back on when it dried out... so Levi got screwed (if that was the case)

I'd like to know the truth... if it is true they just decided to give points last minute without informing the riders I'll be very dissapointed. Not that Vino didn't deserve it (or he probably would have gotten it anyway) but nothing upsets me more than things that are decided by officials making things up as they go.

Again, I don't know if this is the case because OLN, IMHO, did a REALLY poor job of conveying that whole situation. They would say all points and time bonuses are off, but not explain why the finish was still so important for the green jersey... then they would say it was just time bonuses that were off, but not say for sure if points were on.

I have a feeling OLN blew the coverage more than the officials.
Doesn't matter. Levi had a 2 second lead. The team should have covered every break, anyway. There was absolutely no reason for any jersey in contention to have it stolen from them. All they had to do was come to the front and reeled in the breakaway. The same time would have been awarded and Levi would be on the podium. Vino isn't strong enough to hold off the peloton.

[mcarples]

Doesn't matter. Levi had a 2 second lead. The team should have covered every break, anyway. There was absolutely no reason for any jersey in contention to have it stolen from them. All they had to do was come to the front and reeled in the breakaway. The same time would have been awarded and Levi would be on the podium. Vino isn't strong enough to hold off the peloton.

The same time was recorded, Time was locked in after the first lap in Paris because of the wet pavers. Vino beat Levi because of the time bonus for winning the stage, not a time gap in the field. Even if Gerolsteiner tries to reel in Levi, I don't think they can.

[stoneage]

The same time was recorded, Time was locked in after the first lap in Paris because of the wet pavers. Vino beat Levi because of the time bonus for winning the stage, not a time gap in the field. Even if Gerolsteiner tries to reel in Levi, I don't think they can.
The peloton could have reeled the two in, even with just 2K to go, and then the sprinters would have buried Vino, negating his bonus. GST was asleep at the wheel, IMHO.

[Little D]

I agree with Bill.

Those guys were drinking champagne when they should have been watching the Vino! Levi lost around $30,000 for that error. Vino was pretty strong though. He beat up on GST sprinters on the first time award, and they had tried to catch him.

[mcarples]

Yeah...I guess GST was just sleeping, but I also guess thats why the attack worked. Anyways, the way he rode, Vino deserved 5th place, so good for him.

[gopherhockey]

The same time was recorded, Time was locked in after the first lap in Paris because of the wet pavers. Vino beat Levi because of the time bonus for winning the stage, not a time gap in the field.

Thats kinda what I was getting at.... I was led to believe as a viewer that there had been an annoucement that the time was over and no more bonuses were to be had.... at least thats what OLN was saying (interpreting). Even after Bob said he thought they would look at it and Levi would stand in 5th because the annoucement was of no bonuses available and nobody had let the riders know different.

In fact, they were wondering why vino was riding so fast and speculated that he hadn't heard the announcement.

I agree they should not have let him out like that, but as I would have interpreted it vino was going for the stage win, but Levi had 5th locked up by fractions of a second... the judges just decided to change their minds post race.

Again, I wish I had more info on this.... my gut tells me OLN were the ones that were telling it all wrong. In searching most online forums opinions vary but nothing seems clear - even interpretations of the rules vary.

Small news bit:

"With the rain showing no signs of relenting and the streets obviously slick, race officials took the step of announcing that time would be taken on the first of the eight laps over the Champs-Elysees, rather than risk mass carnage on the cobblestone streets and sharp corners. Significantly, they also announced that the second intermediate sprint would count toward the green jersey only – no time bonuses would be awarded. With that, the battle between Leipheimer and Vinokourov appeared to be at a close, with Leipheimer just squeaking ahead......

....With the sprinters bearing down on them, Vino came around McGee and jumped to the line in front of the exhausted Australian and Cancellara, and mere meters ahead of the chasing pack, led by Davitamon-Lotto’s Robbie McEwen.

Then came the news: while officials had neutralized the intermediate sprint time bonus, the finish bonus was intact, and Vinokourov had taken 20 seconds. Leipheimer, who finished far back in the field, had fallen to sixth overall. Armstrong finished without incident with his Discovery Channel teammates massed around him."



As a side note it was fun to see them ride over the same bridge I walked every day for a week the last two years in Issy Les Moulineaux...

[mcarples]

Yeah, sucks for Levi, but I think you're right in that OLN was wrong.

[soupboy]

is still a turd. He's so erratic I don't think he could operate as a team leader. I mean, how can you work for a guy that doesn't even know what he's going to do from one turn of the cranks to the next...

[LightWeight]

Vino is still a turd. He's so erratic I don't think he could operate as a team leader. I mean, how can you work for a guy that doesn't even know what he's going to do from one turn of the cranks to the next...

Looks like we'll get to find out if he can lead or not...

http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/8617.0.html

[tmac]

Yeah, sucks for Levi, but I think you're right in that OLN was wrong.

It sounds like there was some confusion within the Peloton as well. The following is a quote from Levi's tour diary on cycling news.com:

"After the sprint there were a couple of attacks, which is unethical since we had not arrived on the Champs Elysees yet, and the yellow jersey and his team traditionally lead the peloton home. It had started to rain and there were two crashes, including a couple of Discovery riders. Because of the dangerous conditions the jury announced that there would be no time bonuses in Paris. Still, I stayed on his wheel for the final time bonus before we came into Paris just in case. I figured the sprinters would be up there for the final sprint so I didn't worry about that. As you probably already know, Vino won the stage and I was bumped back to sixth place at the very end of the race. The jury did take away the second bonus sprint but not the bonus at the finish. All I can do at this point is look ahead to next year's tour."

All of his entries are a good read, so I suggest you click on over and get the whole story.

[Konaboy]

[QUOTE=soupboy]is still a turd. He's so erratic I don't think he could operate as a team leader.[QUOTE]

That may be true, but being leader of Liberty he'll have Saiz (who's been written up as nutjob-control freak) running the show, and he won't have to ride for anyone else (unless he's riding the Vuelta).

From what I have read if Vino doesn't do what Saiz tells him to, he'll be gone quickly. As for riding for T-Mobile, he didn't want to support Jan in this past tour, and it showed pretty quickly.

Now, will Liberty keep Heras?

[homebrewbiker]

Looks like we'll get to find out if he can lead or not...

http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/8617.0.html

Bummer, I was hoping Discovery would get Vino in 2006.

[Ogre]

Has anyone checked out the free Graham Watson TDF 2005 pic?

It's of the peloton riding through a flat section of road lined with sunflowers.

To the casual observer, nothing special.

But look at the front of the race!
Armstrong, Rassmussen, Basso, Ullrich!!!

What is the context of this picture? I can't remember ever seeing the top guys in a stage race leading on a flat stage?

My best guess this is in the opening couple km of the race and the leaders are preparing for a sharp turn (lining up single file). Otherwise I don't understand why no teammates are surrounding the leaders?

[Wolfchimp]

Do you have a link to the pic?

[Ogre]

http://grahamwatson.com/wallpapers/assortedwall/wallpapers/2005/sunflo1024x768.html

[Wolfchimp]

http://grahamwatson.com/wallpapers/assortedwall/wallpapers/2005/sunflo1024x768.html
Thanks! Very cool pic!