Lap time

[flombe]

15:50

For the main loop (everything north of the tracks), started flat-footed at the first trail marker. I used the timer on my meter.

Does anyone else time themsleves? I do it to gauge where I am at so I can set goals towards improving my fitness level and time, etc.

I'd be interested to know what some of you speedsters are clocking.

[guest_s]

Well, I have roughly timed myself and it was mighty close to yours. I would say 16 or 17 minutes.....on my singlespeed. I felt like I was hauling @ss too. Any faster and you better hope not to clip a tree.....:)

[Adam Hjelle]

I rode Theo with a good buddy of mine last night. I didn't time myself, be he completed in 16:06 on our third lap, average speed of 10.2mph. I would guess that I was about 18 minutes.

[robc]

I was just wondering this myself as I rode last night. I would think Theo would have kind of a 'terminal velocity' due to the tight layout and close trees. I think we did maybe 20 minute laps, but I wasn't timing it. I would love to see the really good riders and how they keep speed in the tight corners. That place makes me realize just how much work I need on my cornering technique. I think I may need to get in on one of the skills sessions one of these days :)

I also am now riding single, and I don't feel like I could do it any faster on gears, since there are no straightaways to really top out on. I am starting to really dig the SS thing.

[Whatsmymantra?]

I like to time the laps for the same reason, checking my general fitness level. 16 plus times are quite doable, sub 16 you are working. Current goal is a sub 15. We may need to ride together to get the extra push from testosterone to get there.

[Uncle Leo]

About 18:30 for me.
Last night though, 3 laps at 19:30 (it was &*^%%$ hot out there).

[Trevize1138]

Lap time: fast. Really fast. No, faster!* :crazy:



*In other words, I don't know and should consider timing myself some day ...

[mara]

As fast as I can. Usually not as fast as the people I am riding with. Just fast enough to put a huge smile on my face when I finish a lap. Theo makes me happy. :cheesy:

[Adam Hjelle]

That place makes me realize just how much work I need on my cornering technique. I think I may need to get in on one of the skills sessions one of these days :)

I agree, don't know how my buddy does it, but he just walks away from me in the tight corners.

[flombe]

Lars, we should hook up some time and ride again. I think a little "cat and mouse" chase would push the times down. I too was thinking sub-15 minutes would be a good goal!

Someone mentioned terminal velocity and I think that is true to some extent, but time can always be pushed by gaining skill, refining technique and increasing fitness (think of how world records continue to fall).

A sprinter with honed bike handling skills would be fun to see. Where is O'Reilly? Is he a sprinter?

[Whatsmymantra?]

If I get off the computer and back to work I might get to go home, Fix a faucet and I would be good to ride by 7:30 or so.

[Tetreves]

As fast as I can. Usually not as fast as the people I am riding with. Just fast enough to put a huge smile on my face when I finish a lap. Theo makes me happy. :cheesy:

Nice avatar!

If I don't time myself, then I'll never have to admit that I'm slow. So....I'm wicked fast!

[flombe]

I agree, don't know how my buddy does it, but he just walks away from me in the tight corners.

I think of riding at Theo as similar to slalom skiing. I am no expert, but these are some of the things I have recognized that work for me:

- brakes will, uh, slow you down, use sparingly, not all turns require braking

- trees do not move, you do

- look ahead two turns minimum, 3 if possible

- pick a tree/rock, etc. as your pinning point (think of it as a slalom ski gate), this pin point could be on the inside or outside of the corner depending on how you plan to set up for the next corner, this will set your line

- stick to your line

- for tight or high speed corners pop your front brake just before the apex of turn to force your front tire to bite (a bit of front brake shifts weight to the front tire, too much shifts rider over the bars) so you can push out of the turn

- lean, but keep your upper body stable, let your bike flow/move side to side beneath you

Be prepared to bounce off of a few trees along the way!

[flombe]

If I get off the computer and back to work I might get to go home, Fix a faucet and I would be good to ride by 7:30 or so.
I am riding from 5:00 to 7:00 tonight. The wife and kids are on a field trip to the BH Wave Pool. Maybe Monday evening?

[Whatsmymantra?]

I have homework to do but will try to get out later. especially right now with these long days, plus after 8pm the park clears out nicely. Perhaps Monday as well.

[stoneage]

Where is O'Reilly? Is he a sprinter?
I'm right here. Nope. I'm in it for the long haul.
14:50 for the North side. Going pretty hard, but not race pace.
21:54 for the whole thing (55 to 55), but that was maybe 85%.
(SS 34-17)
I posted this a couple of weeks ago, trying to determine if a TT could be held at Theo. The lap times are similar to Leb. I think the fast guys would be in at 38-39. There would have to be marshalls for a TT at Theo, though, because of trail conflicts.

[flombe]

I'm right here. Nope. I'm in it for the long haul.
14:50 for the North side. Going pretty hard, but not race pace.
21:54 for the whole thing (55 to 55), but that was maybe 85%.
(SS 34-17)
I posted this a couple of weeks ago, trying to determine if a TT could be held at Theo. The lap times are similar to Leb. I think the fast guys would be in at 38-39. There would have to be marshalls for a TT at Theo, though, because of trail conflicts.

I figured you would have a nice low number!

Rode tonight to discover my middle ring is fried so I did a few laps in the big ring. The first one was with Chris D and the big ring combo darn near killed me. Chris was flying pretty good! My second lap I went over the bars in Bill's rock garden and finished to find out the crash stopped my timer. Third lap a tree took me out and sent me over the bars again! I did finish with a 16:02. What a night!

I think a TT would work well at Theo. Maybe this fall? Next year?

[mcarples]

What would people propose for a time tiral course? I think doing half the south section, three laps around the north loop, and then the second half of the south section would be a great loop. I wouldn't want to ride the road section 4 times, would you?

[Whatsmymantra?]

15:15 for the north loop an hour ago. I think I can go sub 15,
must work harder.

[stoneage]

What would people propose for a time tiral course? I think doing half the south section, three laps around the north loop, and then the second half of the south section would be a great loop. I wouldn't want to ride the road section 4 times, would you?
I think a 2-3 of laps of the N section, with some of the wide trail included to make it harder. Just using the singletrack doesn't allow for any anaerobic effort. Leb has some areas where you can red line, but not Wirth. Also, you don't want it to be too long. 30-40 minutes is good for a MTB TT.

[Wheels]

I think of riding at Theo as similar to slalom skiing....

Hmmm, is it a coincidence that one of the trail designers used to race dual slalom?

Good points about the braking, the front brake is your buddy - if your hitting your rear brake in a turn there's a good chance you took a bad line in the previous turn or didn't use enough front brake in the turn where you skidded the rear.

As I've mentioned before, I like to run low pressure - increases traction.

Glad everyone is finding new ways to push themselves on these trails, this was precisely the kind of thing we tried to create in the design.

[Trevize1138]

After running into Flombe (among others) at Theo yesterday I wondered about another timing benchmark:

How long does it take you to "do" Theo? :) I mean, for me, it should only take about an hour and a half to "do" Theo:

*20 min bike ride from my house to the trailhead
*15-20 minutes per lap there and I'll limit myself to two
*20 min ride back home

In reality:

*20 min bike ride from my house to the trailhead (+5-10 minutes of chit-chat with Eric Gerrits who I just so happen to run into on the way
*15-20 minutes per lap (with 10-15 minutes of chit-chat with Flombe after every lap and maybe 5-10 minutes every time I stop at the mid section and run into Aeroneous or someone like that)
*20 min ride home (hey, I didn't see anybody else!)

2-2 1/2 hours round trip ... One and a half hours my BUTT!

[mcarples]

16 minutes today. Less than an hour if I drive to the trail (I usually do 2 or 3 laps) or about 2+ hours if I ride to the trail (adds up to about 25 miles round trip including singletrack)

[mara]

How long does it take you to "do" Theo? :) I mean, for me, it should only take about an hour and a half to "do" Theo:

Me? Thirty minutes a lap, minimum, because there are so many people to stop and chat with. As many laps as daylight / riding buddies allow. A little over an hour to get to or from Theo.

If I did the minimalist two lap plan, it would be a three hour trip. The fun way ends up being more like four or five, but what a good way to spend the time!

[SprocketHead]

35 minutes from Theo Beach, 1 Lap and back. On SS with 32-16.. I normally run 32-18.

[flombe]

Round trip from my house with three laps and no talking is about 1:10. 2 hours or more when I stop to chat. Tonight I rode to Erik's in SLP to get my middle ring replaced and then to Theo for two laps and home in 2 hours. By the way, Mike Nendza at Erik's replaced my middle ring in 5 minutes. Now that is fast!

The trail was mostly great tonight although I had to hold off on some of the muddy turns. In spite of the mud, I dropped to 15:35 for a lap. Wednesday should be perfect high speed conditions if it doesn't rain.

[Wheels]

Round trip from my house with three laps and no talking is about 1:10. 2 hours or more when I stop to chat. Tonight I rode to Erik's in SLP to get my middle ring replaced and then to Theo for two laps and home in 2 hours. By the way, Mike Nendza at Erik's replaced my middle ring in 5 minutes. Now that is fast!

The trail was mostly great tonight although I had to hold off on some of the muddy turns. In spite of the mud, I dropped to 15:35 for a lap. Wednesday should be perfect high speed conditions if it doesn't rain.

Mike's pretty darn good... must be all that experience from working on his Fiero all the time :)

[ColonelSpaz]

My first lap tonight was 15:28, but I dropped my chain twice. I tried to relax and ride more efficiently the second lap and I did. I didn't drop my chain at all and came in at 15:01.

[mcarples]

I need to start riding with some of you and see where you all pick up time on me. I push all out on every straightaway and hardly brake on the turns....how do you all do it? I can't break 16 minutes no matter what I do.

[stoneage]

...how do you all do it?
I use a watch set to Kosovo time.
Oh, and ss. No sense dropping a chain.

[rowland]

try stretching a minute to 90 seconds. that should drop your lap times by a third.

[ColonelSpaz]

I use a watch set to Kosovo time.
Oh, and ss. No sense dropping a chain.

That chain dropping action was happening on a singlespeed. Rigid fork, BMX handlebars, 38 x 17.

[stoneage]

That chain dropping action was happening on a singlespeed. Rigid fork, BMX handlebars, 38 x 17.
Chain alignment or tension issues?

[ColonelSpaz]

Chain alignment or tension issues?

Yes, kind of. It has a surly chain tensioner on it so there is some slop in the chain. And I recently put a bottom bracket with a longer spindle on it. The chain line looks OK, but it's now dropping the chain occasionally so it's probably off. Off enough to matter anyway. But I can run a bigger front ring now if I want to. I ride that bike around the city a lot, so I've been wanting a bigger gear.

[Wheels]

Yes, kind of. It has a surly chain tensioner on it so there is some slop in the chain. And I recently put a bottom bracket with a longer spindle on it. The chain line looks OK, but it's now dropping the chain occasionally so it's probably off. Off enough to matter anyway. But I can run a bigger front ring now if I want to. I ride that bike around the city a lot, so I've been wanting a bigger gear.

If you're using a freehub with spacers on the back you can just fine tune that a bit - www.oneonone.com could dial you up right quick no that.

Otherwise, you'll either need to change the spindle length or adjust the spacing of your hub and redish the wheel a bit.

If you're in the south 'burbs you'll want to stop and see Hollywood www.hwoodcycles.com , right next to the old REI on 98th and 35W.

[ColonelSpaz]

If you're using a freehub with spacers on the back you can just fine tune that a bit - www.oneonone.com (http://www.oneonone.com/) could dial you up right quick no that.

Otherwise, you'll either need to change the spindle length or adjust the spacing of your hub and redish the wheel a bit.

If you're in the south 'burbs you'll want to stop and see Hollywood www.hwoodcycles.com (http://www.hwoodcycles.com/) , right next to the old REI on 98th and 35W.

I appreciate the spirit of helpfulness. But I really have just ajusted my technique a little bit and will learn to live with it. I'm going to put a bigger chain ring on so I need the longer spindle, and my rear hub is a dedicated singlespeed hub. I now just make sure that I have some tension on the chain over bumpy sections. So I brake AND pedal at the same time. It works. I have other bikes to ride with fewer quirks, so it's OK.

[flombe]

It was hot out there at 5:30! The trail is very hard packed and fast. For once, I didn't break anything and I didn't crash. Finished a lap of the main loop in 15:03 tonight. Must break the 15:00 mark this weekend. 54 minutes from home, two laps, with no stopping (well, I didn't bump into anyone to talk to!)

[ColonelSpaz]

It was hot out there at 5:30! The trail is very hard packed and fast. For once, I didn't break anything and I didn't crash. Finished a lap of the main loop in 15:03 tonight. Must break the 15:00 mark this weekend. 54 minutes from home, two laps, with no stopping (well, I didn't bump into anyone to talk to!)

15:03 is smokin'. My previous best lap was 15:01. I broke out the dedicated mountain bike with better tires, a suspension fork and 36 x 18 gearing and on that bike my best is now 14:46! Hell yeah. When are we doing the time trial out there?

[quinnsoccer27]

my best is 15:19 on my Big Hit,

[Buck]

my best is 15:19 on my Big Hit,

hahaha, he is within a few seconds of you guys and he is on a DOWNHILL BIKE hahahahahahahaha, hell yeah Andrew!!! w000000000t!!!! hahahhahahaha
Get this kid a lighter bike, hahahahahahahahahahaha, all you weight weenies talking about cutting seconds and he can do it that fast on a bike that weights more then 3 of your bikes put together, hahahahahahahaha:laugh: Yeah Andrew MEGA PROPS from BUCK!!! hahahhahahaha:cool: :D


L8R
Buck

[stoneage]

Jeeeeez....lighten up! I've done sub 14 and I'm 60 and on a ss. OTree and Chef have done sub 13 on ss. There are NO hills at Wirth. That is the selection on a bike. It isn't a bad time, but nowhere near yahoo, woot category. I'm over 10% faster and they are 16% faster. THAT is a lot in a short TT. Sorry!

[Wheels]

I've been laying low on this one - quietly getting in shape after sitting on my butt half the summer, but I'll be posting a time here soon too.

I thought I was running pretty quick, then I got on Jitterepp's wheel the other night and watched him accelerate away from me out of the corner on a 29'r - full out of the saddle sprinting. I ended up loosing it in one corner trying to keep up, then caught him 2 corners up when he lost it - guess he was pushing pretty hard too.

Pretty cool to ride with someone that fast :)

The fastest rider out there will probably never be known, but I'm certain it won't be on a DH rig - or anything else over 28 lbs for that matter.

But, we'll see....

[stoneage]

Fitness isn't the only factor at Wirth. It's a big help, but handling at Wirth is more important in my opinion. Shad and Wheels can turn in low numbers because of their ability to hit the corners hot. Don't get in shape, Wheels!!! I'm getting better, but it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Head up, head up, head up, must keep head up.

[Wheels]

I'm really glad that so many riders are sharpening their skills on these trails - I know they're not the most technical trails around, but I've yet to meet anyone who rides them regularly that doesn't "get" what they're about. (ride harder - go faster - find your limits).

It's always good to follow a faster rider, "Poetic Dave" was following me the other night and commented that he likes following me because he finds I arc my turn sooner than he does - so he's finding a different line, and by matching my speed he's carrying it through and setting up better for the next corner.

I usually loop out and hit the backslope if it's available, makes for a little berm.

Oh yea, looking up helps too - but then I've followed you (Bill) before, and you're no slouch to try and keep up with either, so you must be doing something right.

[FSSS]

Finally timed myself on the north loop.

18:14 - I figure it's pretty good for a clyde.

I'm hoping I can break 17 this summer.

[Earthman]

not sure what my time is but i know i am getting better becuase i did not get lapped by Jitterjep on sunday. granted i i could not see him or hear him but at least he did not pass me. :banana:

[jitterjepp]

I've been laying low on this one - quietly getting in shape after sitting on my butt half the summer, but I'll be posting a time here soon too.

I thought I was running pretty quick, then I got on Jitterepp's wheel the other night and watched him accelerate away from me out of the corner on a 29'r - full out of the saddle sprinting. I ended up loosing it in one corner trying to keep up, then caught him 2 corners up when he lost it - guess he was pushing pretty hard too.

Pretty cool to ride with someone that fast :)

The fastest rider out there will probably never be known, but I'm certain it won't be on a DH rig - or anything else over 28 lbs for that matter.

But, we'll see....
I thought I was flying. You were just sitting there on your bike when I went by. Who was flying?

[Wheels]

I thought I was flying. You were just sitting there on your bike when I went by. Who was flying?

Oh, I was sitting when you passed us at the crossing, but I left about 20 seconds later and it took me 'til the top of White Pine to catch you! When we got past those newbies you hit the gas again and it was tough to stay on.

Nice riding. :)

[jitterjepp]

not sure what my time is but i know i am getting better becuase i did not get lapped by Jitterjep on sunday. granted i i could not see him or hear him but at least he did not pass me. :banana:Weel Josh, I wasn't going to tell you this but I was doing full laps that included the small loop too. :laugh:

Just kidding. You're getting pretty fast.

[flombe]

14:44 on the north loop tonight with light traffic. I was surprised as the trail seems to be even dustier/slippier after the recent rain. Maybe I need new rubber....

[Trevize1138]

14:44 on the north loop tonight with light traffic. I was surprised as the trail seems to be even dustier/slippier after the recent rain. Maybe I need new rubber....

I usually enjoy myself at Theo with new rubber, too ... heh heh heh ...

I recently put some 2.2 diameter tires on my SS rigid ride and have been riding with PSI around 30 or 35 and that handles the corners pretty dang well out there.

Word of warning, if you go do Leb after that you might want to add 10 or so PSI to your tires otherwise it's *RIM!* oof *RIM!* oof ... on some of those obstacles that I normally nose bonk ...

[stoneage]

14:44 on the north loop
Gettin' faster!!! Finally set your watch to Kosovo time, huh? ;)
Changed my D/A wheels for some sturdier Ultegra with 25mm rubber, and turned a 15:40 on the road bike. The soft corners are a trip, but you can rail the corners with those narrow road bars. I ran the rock gardens, but I lost a big ring tooth on the rocks at the end of Snake. Didn't lift the rear quick enough. You know what they get for a DA 10 speed ring? Ka-ripes!!!!

[redwood]

13:55 for the north loop today.

Here's what I noticed: First I raced the thing as hard as I could and came in at 14:25. It felt crappy, like I was braking into every corner and then having to accelerate out of it. I figured I'd time my cool down lap at normal cruising speed, and that was 15:15 - not much slower! I figured I was wasting a lot of effort to not go around those corners much faster. So I raced the lap a third time, trying to relax and coast the corners. Came through at 13:55 and felt fairly easy compared to the first lap.

[shourtt]

Any night time "lap times" to post?

[flombe]

Down to 14:22 last night! Not in the dark though....

Theo is perfection right now! Tacky and fast.

[Yammer]

What will happen if somebody finally reaches 6:66 ?! :evil:

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

[RedSquirrel]

Any night time "lap times" to post?

I have light and wil eventually post. Anyone want to ride. I live real close. Jack frost be a cometh.

[TML]

What will happen if somebody finally reaches 6:66 ?! :evil:

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

They might just call it 7:06. :)

[[defective]]

I decided to finally go roadie and time a lap. ;)

15:02

The dry leaves were spooking me a bit as I was unintentionally drifting and the front end often decided to ignore the direction I was turning the bars, so I'm sure I could get sub 15 on a leafless trail.

Maybe after the raking party trailwork on Sunday.

I want to follow some of you faster riders sometime to pick up some technique.

Anyone care for a speed leech?

[fatbaldpop1]

I think i did 3 laps today, which included the humane society piece, talking with Bill O, a detour to the future technical stuff and a pit stop. Total time was about 65 minutes. That must be a record for that specific course....actually my time was about 66:66.

No matter what it sure is fun out there right now!

[egoo]

The best way to ride the main lap at Wirth is to find the fastest speed you can make the corners without braking and having to accelerate out of the turns. Do a practice lap, and then time yourself. I'm sure you will better your lap time. Wirth kind of has a terminal velocity, so if you find it and keep your momentum you will go faster. Try not shifting, it will make you keep your momentum around the corners. Don't go too fast, though, we don't want the trails all chewed up (or any injured riders)!!!

[FSSS]

No matter what it sure is fun out there right now!

Yeah, I'm gonna miss the leaves...

But if it's better for the trail (less organic matter) and the trail dries out faster next spring, it'll be worth it.

[stoneage]

I think i did 3 laps today, which included the humane society piece, talking with Bill O, a detour to the future technical stuff and a pit stop. Total time was about 65 minutes. That must be a record for that specific course....actually my time was about 66:66.

No matter what it sure is fun out there right now!
Would have been a pretty good time/time if you hadn't stopped to talk to that loser.;)

[fatbaldpop1]

That darned loser is out there every day quietly repairing (with approval) the trail so I can maintain those 66:66 laps. I wish he would push me off the trail or make me help him...nope just keeps working and tells me how I can ride better.


Now, the real question is who besides me has almost whacked that 8 pt deer who seems to have no testosterone...?

Finally, as far as one gear...maybe I will break out the IF 1x1 and let 'er rock!

[Whatsmymantra?]

23:25 ;)first time ever use of smiley thing

[Whatsmymantra?]

45:35 last night, second lap was faster but forgot to turn on stop watch.

[jitterjepp]

I think of riding at Theo as similar to slalom skiing. I am no expert, but these are some of the things I have recognized that work for me:

- trees do not move, you do



No they dont move. Sometimes when I'm out there I feel like I'm skiing and act as if I am a try to bump the trees with my inside shoulder to cut the corner faster. It dosen't work the same for mountain biking in fact it doesn't work at all and it hurts pretty bad too. Sometimes it pulls your face into the tree too. Ouch!

I don't know what my best lap time is. All I know is that if there are people in front of me I feel like I'm not going fast enough and ride faster until I pass them then there are always more people ahead and i have to pass them too.....and so on....
The only one I haven't passed is O'reily because he won't wont ever let me he just keeps going faster and same speeding me...just stays far enough ahead and zips into the turns faster then I catch up and he zips into the turn and pulls ahead..

I like the effect the keys hanging from the brake cables has on people ahead though with all the banging around on the top tube. clang, chang, ching, clang, chang, ching.... I'm sure it drives some people nuts. Sometimes it even bugs me but I don't ever seem to want to slow down to put them somewhere else.

[flombe]

14:53. I am happy with that after a ride this morning and yard work all day I got out to Theo at 6:15 PM. This was on the SS 29er HT. Last year's times were on a geared 26" HT.

[Trevize1138]

I really need a decent timing device. According to my wristwatch my laps are in the 15-16 minute range but that's as accurate as it gets :).

[stoneage]

I really need a decent timing device. According to my wristwatch my laps are in the 15-16 minute range but that's as accurate as it gets :).
Hey Chris, just count one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand.....for a whole lap. That will give you an accurate time. ;)

[Trevize1138]

Hey Chris, just count one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand.....for a whole lap. That will give you an accurate time. ;)

Hey, that worked! 14:40 over lunch today ;).

[Trevize1138]

13:55 for the north loop today.

Here's what I noticed: First I raced the thing as hard as I could and came in at 14:25. It felt crappy, like I was braking into every corner and then having to accelerate out of it. I figured I'd time my cool down lap at normal cruising speed, and that was 15:15 - not much slower! I figured I was wasting a lot of effort to not go around those corners much faster. So I raced the lap a third time, trying to relax and coast the corners. Came through at 13:55 and felt fairly easy compared to the first lap.

I discovered this very same thing today. My first lap I really pushed, felt really stiff and uncomfortable to get 14:40. The second lap I "took it easy" and ended up with 15:10. Very odd, but it makes sense if you're not loose you're not going to flow.

[Wheels]

Hey, that worked! 14:40 over lunch today ;).

Wow, I'm surprised (that you can count that high) :)

[Kosk]

13:58

via 34x18 - 26" ss

2006-05-22 8pm-ish
mild 60s,
no wind,
clear sky,
tacky to dry tread,
perfect conditions.

..and one pissed off racoon.

[syntaxjunkie]

Hey Chris, just count one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand.....for a whole lap. That will give you an accurate time. ;)
Excuse me, but I believe that "[number]-Mississippi" is the recognized standard North American time-keeping unit for seconds elapsed.

[stoneage]

Excuse me, but I believe that "[number]-Mississippi" is the recognized standard North American time-keeping unit for seconds elapsed.
You are correct, I'm using metric.

[Chuck]

I think I posted around a sub-16 on my cross bike last night. Of course, as the sun went down, my sundial gets all screwed up.

There was heavy traffic on the trail last night too, so that slowed things a bit. I will have to get one of those fancy computers everyone is using and get an accurate lap time.

[Kosk]

Chuck when were you out there? I saw the KW ride crew leaving on my way in and then not a soul the entire rest of the time. It was getting on towards 9 by the time I left though....I found in strange on such a nice night nobody was ripping late, maybe cuz it was monday.... kinda nice having the whole place to myself.

[El-Rock]

I average 14.30 out there. main loop. with an average of 11.6

When I've really pushed it I clock in at 14-flat.

is that a decent run? not sure...just love it out ther.e..

if anyone ever wants to ride...I ride out at Wirth everynight around 5:15pm maybe we could push eachother even faster...

there is no terminal velocity...it's all about sticking to your line and not using the brakes...it's a mental game.

anyway PM me if you want ot ride.

[Chuck]

Chuck when were you out there? I saw the KW ride crew leaving on my way in and then not a soul the entire rest of the time. It was getting on towards 9 by the time I left though....I found in strange on such a nice night nobody was ripping late, maybe cuz it was monday.... kinda nice having the whole place to myself.

I would say I got there around 5:54pm and split around 7:00pm or so. At one point, waiting at the start/finish trailhead, we counted about 18 people riding into the trail.

I think I will have to ditch the cross bike and get my ss El Mariachi down there to start turning faster lap times.

Night rides are fun, but I haven't done one of those in about a year now. Gotta get a new light system. My old one died and I never had the bucks to get a new one.

[El-Rock]

last night tried the no braking mind-game...

worked...broke my 14 min best

[99FSRComp]

It seems to me that there is getting to be a much smoother flow to the trail. I know the trail is getting wider, but I don't know if it's the trail or if that I am just getting more comfortable with it. What do other riders think?

Mike

[Trevize1138]

last night tried the no braking mind-game...

worked...broke my 14 min best

I'll have to take you up on your open invitation to ride with you some night. I rode over lunch today and timed myself at 14:45 (finally got a new, digital watch with stopwatch!). I was intentionally riding around 95% the whole way to stay loose and I dabbed on the rock uphill. 14 flat is quite the accomplishment out there as far as I can tell, although I've not yet really gotten a good guage of what my average is.

If I'm able to do under 15 pretty regularly then I can see how 14 flat or sub 14 would be possible for me. As it stands, seems like you'd have to ride it pretty damn perfect. That no brake mindgame is worth trying, too. :)

[Trevize1138]

It seems to me that there is getting to be a much smoother flow to the trail. I know the trail is getting wider, but I don't know if it's the trail or if that I am just getting more comfortable with it. What do other riders think?

Mike

I would say you're just getting more comfortable with it. But, it is getting more packed in and smoother as time goes on. Just the way of things when a trail is ridden as much as this one.

What's really fun is go hit Lebanon now that you're feeling faster at Theo. You wanna know what wide-open singletrack feels like, there's nothing quite like a lap at Lebanon after riding a bunch at Theo. :)

[El-Rock]

yes. lets ride together...

mind you I have only broken 14
3 times...when it was perfect conditions...gotta really flow through all the turns and really push it on flats...

lets ride...I ride most every night around 5:30pm

Erik

[Pete Hamer]

I think we should get together and have an informal time trial at Theo some day. That could make for a good time.

[FSSS]

I think we should get together and have an informal time trial at Theo some day. That could make for a good time.

Pete...

Give this thread a bump:

http://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16613&page=2

[Trevize1138]

yes. lets ride together...

mind you I have only broken 14
3 times...when it was perfect conditions...gotta really flow through all the turns and really push it on flats...

lets ride...I ride most every night around 5:30pm

Erik

I was out there last night with a buddy of mine. What bike do you ride? I've got a yellow and black '01 M4 StumpJumper frame singlespeeded. Also, look for the yellow "pimp shades" that aren't just stylish but functional ;).

I'll be doing the Buck Hill races tonight, but yeah, look for me out there and we'll push each other to our deaths! :crazy:

[El-Rock]

yes!

I ride a **** old Cannondale M400 black...just got some new Mavic Enduros !!

Lets hook up and push eachother out there...!! ANYTIME! Especially now since my wife is gone for 3 weeks in Austrailia

[flombe]

yes!

I ride a **** old Cannondale M400 black...just got some new Mavic Enduros !!

Lets hook up and push eachother out there...!! ANYTIME! Especially now since my wife is gone for 3 weeks in Austrailia

Ed, Chris D, I would like to get in on this train sometime. Tu & Th evenings generally work for me.

[El-Rock]

ok...yes, lets meet this Tuesday... 5:30pm?

Erik

ps. I'll be out there tonight at 5:20pm for a good ride if anyone wants to ride together and push eachother...give me a call 612.804-5172

[flombe]

ok...yes, lets meet this Tuesday... 5:30pm?

Erik

ps. I'll be out there tonight at 5:20pm for a good ride if anyone wants to ride together and push eachother...give me a call 612.804-5172

I forgot to mention that I will be out of town from Tuesday through July 9th. If I can work it, I will try to meet up tonight. I will call you if it works.

[Trevize1138]

I was gonna go watch my wife play V-ball tomorrow night, but maybe a Tuesday night "push each other toward the peaceful sleep of the grave" ride is in order instead. =)

5:30 at the 55 and Wirth Parkway kiosk? Clocked in a 14:35 this afternoon!

[El-Rock]

Last night conditions were prefect. rode 14:00 for all more laps...fun stuff...pushing hard.

Chris-

I'll meet you out there tonight at between 5:30-5:40. Cool?

black bike, black clothes, black helmet, that's me.

[Trevize1138]

Cool! The kiosk at 55 and Wirth Pkwy, yes? I'll have a cream-colored top, red, white and blue helmet and yellow "pimp shades." :cool:

I'm taking advantage of some free time and my work-at-home flexible schedule today to get in some training in order to kick Shad's a** at Buck Thursday. I just rode Theo an hour ago, actually. Be back this afternoon for more, of course. Clocked in at 14:11! :banana:

[El-Rock]

Chris-

I'll see you there...Hopefully I can keep up...

[Trevize1138]

Woah, what a ride!

So, it was just Erik and I at the start. Being I'd already done two laps over lunch I told him I wasn't so sure about the whole "push each other to the brink of death" thing.

But, we both pushed the buttons on our timers and started in on the first lap, comparing our most recnet best-times rolling around through Conundrum. I'd just gotten 14:10 and he once got a 13:55 but that was when the trail was in perfect, tacky condition.

Being that his times were always about 15 seconds faster than mine I wasn't surprised to see him gradually pull away from me. Every now and then he'd go through a corner faster or clear something cleaner. It was like watching a "ghost car" in a driving game.

Half way through the lap I counted "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand ..." from where I marked him going the other way on a switchback and found I was 7-8 seconds behind. By the end I was the usual 15 seconds behind him.

It was just enough time for him to tell me as I was finishing "Dude, you just broke 14!"

Erik D's new best time: 13:21
My new best time: 13:35

Wholy s***!! :crazy2:

I'd say this is something we've got to do again and would recommend it to everyone else: get a riding buddy pretty close to your time and push each other. We picked up another rider for the second lap who'd never timed himself before. He broke 14, too, with a 13:59. It's as if a lot of people never thought to do this: "Hey, I could time myself and see how I really compare to the other riders!"

It's cool. You can time yourself and push yourself even closer to wiping out! Sure, as a side-effect you'll improve your time ... :crazy:

[Trevize1138]

Lars, we should hook up some time and ride again. I think a little "cat and mouse" chase would push the times down. I too was thinking sub-15 minutes would be a good goal!

Flombe wrote this almost one year ago. He was right about getting yourself a designated rabbit to chase. Now it looks like sub-15 is old and busted and sub-13 is the new hotness. Old man O'Reilly says he's done it as have others. Sounds pretty damn hard to me, but just 24 hours ago I thought breaking 14 was equally impossible.

[El-Rock]

Yeah great time Chris! Thanks for riding with me...

I'm not sure sub 13 is doable...but if Bill has done it...wow to him...that sounds crazy hard...

[Trevize1138]

Yeah great time Chris! Thanks for riding with me...

I'm not sure sub 13 is doable...but if Bill has done it...wow to him...that sounds crazy hard...

Just another 21 seconds, dude. =)

[El-Rock]

21 seconds...that sounds like eternity out there...I want to ride with Bill and have him help me push to that -13 goal...Bill? When can we ride?

[stoneage]

The best I've heard is 11:48. Chef from the KKrew. I haven't come close, or really tried, to go fast this year. 12:37 is my best from last year. You can put an eye out!!! I'm going to bring the ti cross bike out tonight and give her a shakedown run. I haven't been on it for 6 years.

[El-Rock]

damn Bill that is crazy fast...crazy fast...I don't even see how the laws of physics would let you stay on the trail!!!
When are you going out tonight? I'll keep an eye out for forrest fires,,,going that fast you could set all Wirth on fire...

[Trevize1138]

I know, I couldn't help thinking yesterday as we averaged 12.25mph through skinny, tree-lined turns "You know, we could easily go so much faster ..." :shocked:

[[defective]]

Happy with 13:53 yesterday.

Dry and dusty. Maybe a little less pressure in my rear tire would have helped as it was sliding a bit when pedaling out of corners.

Also, I was feeling a little sloppy overall. One of those not 100% there days.

I'd love to try tailing someone faster sometime soon and see what I can lop off my time.

[stoneage]

That's quick. Tacky conditions and you lose another minute. That's about the best I've done all year, but I was out with the KKrew the other night and TTTT dropped us like a bad habit. He is really fast in the singletrack for a big (6-4) guy.

[El-Rock]

anytime wnyone wants to ride...PM me or call me

[r32657]

Did 15 min 30 secs. Man was it hot today!!

[high life]

I've never timed myself, but tonight I plan on it. So, does anyone know....is 11:something the record? Does anyone think 10:something is doable?

[flombe]

I've never timed myself, but tonight I plan on it. So, does anyone know....is 11:something the record? Does anyone think 10:something is doable?

Sub-11? Yes, with a dose of testosterone.;)

I think we need to establish a common start/stop point so everyone is working off the same data.

Any suggestions? El-Rock, where are you starting? You seem to have posted most consistently this year.

I am planning to hit the dirt again soon after nursing my shoulder for 5 1/2 weeks, and I would like to know where I am in in comparison to the speedy riders.

[high life]

Sub-11? Yes, with a dose of testosterone.;)

I think we need to establish a common start/stop point so everyone is working off the same data.

Any suggestions? El-Rock, where are you starting? You seem to have posted most consistently this year.

I am planning to hit the dirt again soon after nursing my shoulder for 5 1/2 weeks, and I would like to know where I am in in comparison to the speedy riders.

I am thinking that the start/finish could be the area where you enter the "A" loop from the gravel road.

Based on MOCA's listed distance of 2.74 mi, here is a brakedown of lap times vs. rate of travel.

13 min: 12.6mph
12 min: 13.7mph
11 min: 14.9mph
10 min: 16.4mph

...I'll be wearing my testosterone patch tonight.

[stoneage]

The fastest I have seen is 11:48. I'm not sure sub 11 is doable because of the law of diminishing returns. I have gone low to middle 13's this year and my best ever was 12:37 with no errors and perfect tread. There are about 6-7 KKrew guys that can dust me pretty good, but 30 seconds on that course is an eternity.

[high life]

The fastest I have seen is 11:48. I'm not sure sub 11 is doable because of the law of diminishing returns.

Thanks Bill! I love it when things are thought to be impossible. 10.59 would be cool to see (just under 15 mph).

...let's get some more people posting times ;)

[high life]

Okay,

I went for it tonight. I ripped the computer off my road bike and strapped it on the MTB to time laps out at Wirth. If I ever decide to time laps again, I'll do it in the early AM before work. I was having trouble passing riders on the trail all night. I realize that my personal time trials are not that important to anyone other than me. I respect all of the riders out on the trail (maybe not the one's riding the no shirt/no helmet/huffy combo) and don't want to negatively impact anyone's experience. Consequently, I came to the conlusion that Wirth is no place to try to set records.

I rode as fast as I possibly could (while still respecting the other riders on the trail) for 3 consecutive laps to try to acheive the fastest alleged lap time. As a result, I rode beyond my anaerobic threshold for the majority of the time and rode the trail the sloppiest I've ever ridden it. I've never crashed at Wirth before...until tonight. I went way too zesty into a couple of the corners and went sliding off the trail 2 out of 3 laps. I ended up with one clean lap. Here are my splits:

Lap 1: 13:14
Lap 2(clean): 12:25
Lap 3: 12:55

Failure at beating the alleged course record. Sub 11 minutes, while extremely difficult, seems possible. With tackier trail conditions, and a faster rider(Jeff Hall, Gene-O, etc.) 11 minutes could be possible.

However, with the dry weather we have had, I can't imagine anything under 11:30 or so.

[stoneage]

Sub 11 minutes, while extremely difficult, seems possible.
Maybe, but at 12 and 1/2 minutes, you can see how much more you have to put into it. I can't imagine where I could get the extra 30 seconds or 40 seconds to match 11:48, much less the :49 MORE to get sub 11. Like I said, diminishing returns. You just can't get there fast enough.
Nice going. Which corners did you go down on? Wirth is kinda scary at those speeds, ain't it?:crazy2: I am way more nervous at Wirth than I am at Leb at speed. I have done the TT a couple of times and never worry about hitting anything.

[Trevize1138]

Tom,

Nice splits, dude! 12:25 is close enough to the record if you ask me! Especially when you consider the dry conditions and wipeouts you spoke of that's a hell of a time. :banana:

My best was 13:36 and I still can't see how I'd take an extra 1:11 off.

[syntaxjunkie]

The last time I tried to ride for time at Wirth, I made a complete monkeyf*** of it. Seriously, it was like I was trying to GPS The Worst Lines Ever Taken. I flubbed the rock garden, rode the corners like I had jailhouse hooch in my water bottle, and almost collided with a very surprised deer. I finished somewhere in the 14s and resolved never to time myself again.

[high life]

Tom,

Nice splits, dude! 12:25 is close enough to the record if you ask me! Especially when you consider the dry conditions and wipeouts you spoke of that's a hell of a time. :banana:

My best was 13:36 and I still can't see how I'd take an extra 1:11 off.


Thanks man. It is really easy to get sketchy on this trail at high speeds. I enjoy riding out at wirth much more when I'm riding what I would guess is about a 14:something lap. You can really flow through the trails nicely when you're not pinning it on the straightaways, just to brake in the corners. Trying to ride the trail with minimal brake usage seems to be key. You won't get your fastest lap doing it this way, but it is a heck of alot more fun.

It also seems like you get the "deer in the headlights" effect when you are under the clock. I felt like I was riding like a complete idiot out there. :jumpy:

[Wheels]

Who's interested in a time trial?

The MOCA Board voted to do it earlier this year, and the MPRB said that all we need to do is get a permit - but we don't have manpower right now... someone would have to organize and manage the event.

I've been talking to sponsors, so the organizer would have some backing right away.

The MOCA board has chosen a format (which we won't disclose yet) but it will be a lottery to get in - anyone who has done trail work in the last 3 years (we've got the list) gets first shot, then a percentage of applicants - and some invites (I think they voted that current board members are automatically in ;) )

100 or less total riders, yes there's an entry fee, and I'm sure it will be a blast - if we can put it together...

[Wheels]

I just want to add to the thread...

Please be careful out there, it's easy to get a little light headed when you're going that hard and it's easier for something to go wrong - like hitting a dear, a tree, a kid... me...

And if you haven't figured it out yet, it's faster to not skid - so don't be messing-up the trail by laying down a patch in every turn :D

[syntaxjunkie]

Brake use was mentioned earlier, which is a good point. Wirth is a good trail to practice riding with your front brake only – not much in the way of big descents, etc. It's a good way to practice minimal and efficient braking, as it takes a lot less front brake to slow you down. And you don't skid a whole lot.

[stoneage]

31st and Welcome, Crystal: 3:12
In the N side, over to the S loop, 4 laps, back to the N loop, 4 laps, back to 31st and Welcome: 5:02
1 hr 50 min
ss 34-17

[flombe]

Basically been off for 8 weeks to heal shoulder injury. Did a 30 mile training ride in preparation for Cheq Fat 40 and headed to Theo for a lap to finish the night out. So why not time it?

First timed run with gears in almost a year. 15:30. Ouch! Ego a little sore, but shoulder feels great! I did not have much left in the tank.

Started training with a heart rate monitor. Pushing at Theo gets your blood pumping man! Heart rate shot up to 189! Also an indicator of lack of fitness. Must ride more.

[stoneage]

Wondered where you had been. Sorry about the shoulder. I displaced a couple of buckthorn the other day with my shoulder. :cryin:

Started training with a heart rate monitor.
PM me about HRM training.

[rfd425]

I thought I'd post in this thread to make other over-the-hill, out of shape novices feel better.

I did two consecutive laps of Theo tonight, with the second one being faster at around 22 minutes. It was actually around 22:40, but I figure I lost at least a minute pulling off the trail to let faster riders by. Okay, I know I suck, but I figured posting times here should not just be limited to the fast guys. It was my fourth time out at Theo, and my fourth time ever on a mountain bike trail. In fact, the Hardrock I bought two months ago is the first bicycle I've owned in 25 years. Tonight, however, I was riding a FSRXC demo bike from Erik's.

Let's see some lap times from some more novices and slower people! :)

[Nickel]

Hey everyone starts off slow

[Trevize1138]

I thought I'd post in this thread to make other over-the-hill, out of shape novices feel better.

I did two consecutive laps of Theo tonight, with the second one being faster at around 22 minutes. It was actually around 22:40, but I figure I lost at least a minute pulling off the trail to let faster riders by. Okay, I know I suck, but I figured posting times here should not just be limited to the fast guys. It was my fourth time out at Theo, and my fourth time ever on a mountain bike trail. In fact, the Hardrock I bought two months ago is the first bicycle I've owned in 25 years. Tonight, however, I was riding a FSRXC demo bike from Erik's.

Let's see some lap times from some more novices and slower people! :)

Good point! I think, though, the ideal of posting times isn't so much to point out fast people vs. slow but to get people to maybe find potential riding partners. When I went with Eric and we each got our personal best times it was a blast! Yes, we're on the faster end of the spectrum, but any time you're riding with someone closer matched in ability it's just a great time.

So, let's have some more variety in posting lap times here and see if people can find others of matched ability. Think about it: you probably don't ride with people who match your level because they're at the other end of the trail, never to meet ;).

[ebrandel]

I thought I'd post in this thread to make other over-the-hill, out of shape novices feel better.

I did two consecutive laps of Theo tonight, with the second one being faster at around 22 minutes. It was actually around 22:40, but I figure I lost at least a minute pulling off the trail to let faster riders by. Okay, I know I suck, but I figured posting times here should not just be limited to the fast guys. It was my fourth time out at Theo, and my fourth time ever on a mountain bike trail.
Let's see some lap times from some more novices and slower people! :)

I'm currently on the slower end of the spectrum (fastest lap being about 18 minutes) but I've noticed that every time I've gone to Theo (three times now) I've shaved a minute or two off my lap time. A lot of it has to do with familiarity with the trails. And you'll definitely see some improvement as you go along since you're new to the sport :)

Theo is a good place to learn though. For a while I was only hitting some trails that were fairly straight and wide and my skills were getting rusty. Theo has definitely helped me sharpen them again. And there isn't too much climbing to disuade you from wanting to ride if your legs aren't quite there yet.

[high life]

~15:25 for a lap in the dark.

Recommendation: When night riding at Wirth, a light on the helmet would be much more beneficial than one on the handlebar (although both would be ideal). I rode last night with my light on the handlebar. You really can't see what's coming up around each corner. I relied on my memory of the trail to help negotiate the turns. Have fun and be careful!

[rfd425]

I did two consecutive laps of Theo tonight, with the second one being faster at around 22 minutes. It was actually around 22:40, but I figure I lost at least a minute pulling off the trail to let faster riders by. Okay, I know I suck, but I figured posting times here should not just be limited to the fast guys.Today was my second time at Theo since I posted that, and I did 18:58 on my second of two laps. Like ebrandel said, familiarity with the trail makes a big difference. I don't think I'll be joining the sub-14 or even the sub-16 club anytime soon, but hopefully I can do sub-18 by the end of the season.:)

[stoneage]

12:40. Fastest this year for me. I'm getting old so I don't think I'll get much better, although the trail is much easier to ride than it was a year ago. I told some guy I was timing and he said he wanted to, also. He was chasing me and stuck it bad on the Snake trail chicane, but got back up and finished around 13 and a half.
p.s. Cyclocross the rock pile, it's faster by 3-5 seconds.

[Trevize1138]

p.s. Cyclocross the rock pile, it's faster by 3-5 seconds.

For YOU, maybe. Try riding your bike fast next time. :crazy:

[syntaxjunkie]

i'm going to try it tonight on the ss 29er. with the asphalt gear. and a backpack full of work clothes and an empty thermos. won't be timing this one.

[RedSquirrel]

First time theo timing this am! I dropped off most work gear last night at work so I could ride to work this am (laptop, clothes etc).

I don't ride Theo too much. Been there maybe five times this year. Anyway with 32x17 SS and small backpack on did the timing.

13:28

Not sure I could ever cut a 1 minute off, maybe 30 seconds... Felt like I wanted 32x18, lower tire pressure and no back pack. I few small skids otherwise very clean lap.

[syntaxjunkie]

Anyway with 32x17 SS and small backpack on did the timing.

13:28

Not sure I could ever cut a 1 minute off, maybe 30 seconds... Felt like I wanted 32x18, lower tire pressure and no back pack. I few small skids otherwise very clean lap.

I'll give a qualitative update as to how it works with 32x15 and a medium-sized backback. didn't bring a watch today anyway.

[stoneage]

Felt like I wanted 32x18
You sure? Try it with 2-2-1. You really have to push it everywhere you can. If you spin out you aren't going to be fast enough, in my opinion.

[RedSquirrel]

You sure? Try it with 2-2-1. You really have to push it everywhere you can. If you spin out you aren't going to be fast enough, in my opinion.

I wasn't able to pedal corners as much as I wanted. Nervious about pedal drag, bonk and OTB (did that this year at theo). I stopped pedaling too much around corners, then the 32x17 acceleration was slower rpm than I wanted. I need to get more comforatable at Theo. The self timing thing is defenatley a riot. I felt like I was braking alot too. You guys with the no brake rule, ha, crazy. Anyway..I've never even tried 2-2-1. Still new to SS, 2-2-1 may help me force it faster.

[flombe]

I wasn't able to pedal corners as much as I wanted. Nervious about pedal drag, bonk and OTB (did that this year at theo). I stopped pedaling too much around corners, then the 32x17 acceleration was slower rpm than I wanted. I need to get more comforatable at Theo. The self timing thing is defenatley a riot. I felt like I was braking alot too. You guys with the no brake rule, ha, crazy. Anyway..I've never even tried 2-2-1. Still new to SS, 2-2-1 may help me force it faster.

You pushed the 32:17 at Mammoth, you can definitely push 32:16 (2:1 or 2-2-1) at Theo. Pedal like mad when you can and remain fluid through the turns. Disconnect the brakes and go.....no. You need brakes on a few turns. At least I do.

An agreed upon starting point has never been decided or posted to the best of my knowledge. For the record, I start with one foot on the on the rocks/concrete chunks at the start of the north loop before you ride up the entry trail.

[syntaxjunkie]

in the interest of full disclosure, i am not reporting a time here.

i am, however, reporting that i rode the three most perfect laps of my life at wirth tonight. at 32x15. on the 29 ss. with the tires at something ridiculous like 40psi. who got the hook up? i got the hook up. it was nuts.

in another week and a half, afton alps may very well reduce me to a lump of quivering, all too human jello. but for three laps tonight, i was a supreme being.

go ride this trail. now.

[high life]

12:18 for the first lap of the night (around 6pm). Then did a couple of fun ones in the dark.

[El-Rock]

looking good out there...the brakes thing...it just takes confidence and your tires...stick to those corners...go fast

[EscourtU]

Hey all I am new to the boards here. Having a racing background I can give you a hint to help your cornering. When you approach the corner have your outside pedal down and put your weight on it. It will transfer the weight to the tires much better. Then you can start off with a full power stroke. It is like skiing. You all know that when cornering on ski's you use your outside ski. same thing with pedals. It prevents you from washing out also. I hope to make it to wirth as I have never been there. Hope to see you on the trails.

[rfd425]

I think I had a personal-record lap going tonight, until I lost it coming off the jump near the end, and slammed my side into the ground with a lot of downward momentum. The diagnosis at Urgent Care: two fractured ribs. :( I guess I won't be breaking that personal best this year. Then again, at my experience level (i.e. next to none), I probably shouldn't be so concerned with lap times every time out. It probably hinders me from learning to ride the trail better and more efficiently.

Thanks to the guys behind who stopped to make sure I was okay. :) I really appreciated that, because at first I wasn't sure how bad I was hurt.

[EscourtU]

You are still fit to ride just don't breathe too deeply. Broken/fractured ribs are more of a neiusance than anything. Just wrap them up and take it easy but you don't have to quit riding. Good to hear that some people stopped to help and see if you were ok. I was going to go ride there today but had other obligations, but then them got cancelled. It blew my whole day to hell especially when I saw how nice it was.

[rfd425]

You are still fit to ride just don't breathe too deeply. Broken/fractured ribs are more of a neiusance than anything. Just wrap them up and take it easy but you don't have to quit riding.I might have a hard time convincing my wife of that, after my second trip to the hospital in the dozen or so times I've ridden Theo. :laugh:

I was able to ride the 45 minutes home to Minnetonka afterwards, but since then the pain & swelling have gotten worse, and the doctor said it might continue to get worse for several days. However, maybe in another week I can at least start going on aerobic rides on the flat bike paths.

Back on topic, I do think maybe as a beginner I've been putting too much emphasis on lap time. While it's nice to measure my progress, I don't know if just trying to go fast is the best way for me to learn to ride better. I think when I get back out there, I'll try to work on riding smooth, efficient, and cleanly, without so much emphasis on lap time. Maybe I'll try the no-brake thing.

[RedSquirrel]

Maybe I'll try the no-brake thing.

Don't deny you've got the fast attitude!! You like challenge, edgyness, intern mtn biking. You've got the right sport. You want to go fast, and you will if you work at it. "Go fast to get fast......yeah sure."

HOWEVER, you know better than anyone what you need at this time. If your thinking about getting smooth on dirt and "seeing" things at a not so blurry anerobic pace, do it. Soul rides. Good call. Gain response/reflex skills at all speeds, conditions and trail types. You'll go faster in the long run.

[EscourtU]

If you really want to increase your riding ability you should hook up with someone who knows the correct techniques of riding. It sounds silly but I did that for motocross and got first the next race and continued to win after. You have the GO-FAST attitude you just need some pointers. They say if you don't crash your not riding hard enough. If you take that many trips to the hospital maybe you should look into some armor.

[Wheels]

Orignally posted by StoneAge

The 1st Annual 43rd Annual TTTTTT&TaT was held at Theo last weekend. Here is the press release:

For immediate release:

The 43rd annual permutation of 'The Trip', as The Theo Triple Time Trial Tournament and Tete a Tete (TTTTTT&TaT) has fondly become known, borrowing slang from it's 1960's hippie origins, was staged on a bitterly cold Saturday afternoon on the ancient and revered course at Theodore Wirth Park in Minneapolis, MN. As the temperature edged to the -12° C level, the officials pushed back the starting time of the first stage to allow competitors to fully warm up and ingest the higher caloric intake needed for what was to be an epic struggle.
The start was a drama that will be played out time and time again over libations, as the odds on favorite John Friedell (Freeride) made a critical course direction mistake and lost a full 25 seconds to the leader board. An arrogantly miffed tiatribe by the vacuous Freeride followed, which led the officials to, in our opinion, make a decision that would come back to haunt both them and the aforementioned rider. Given a restart, Freeride could not come close to redeeming his poor performance and ended with a 17 second disadvantage while selfishly making the other competitors suffer in the miserable conditions. His day was done.
Stage two was a lap of the now famous Parkway/55 (A) loop, which to the inexperienced rider can spell disaster. The stage requires both powerful climbing fitness, with the ability to compose oneself in some highly technical areas. Two riders rose to the occasion on this physical and mental test. Tom Thornquest (TTTT), who spent the early season helping the poor build houses in Ghana, only to come on of late as a force to be reckoned with, and Steve Rowntree (OTree), who's early podium grabbing headlines made him the darling of the circuit, displayed the professional skills that have become the clarion call of this long standing event. Coming in with virtually the same time (3:29:1341 vs 3:29:1345) the seasoned veterans set the tone for the finale. Freeride, although having a respectable showing at 3:32:655, again embarrassed himself, while uttering as the overflow crowd sat in stunned silence, "I could have gone harder." Which begs the question, 'In the most important event of the year, why didn't you?' Alas, former greatness gone stale.
The long third stage loomed ahead as the riders made the transition to the imfamous (B) loop. The crowds had gathered hours earlier in the famous 'Rock' and 'Snake' sections, fueled and warmed by the usual liquid furnace that has become a hallmark of this famous course first traversed by the likes of Zeh, Fuller (Alexander) and O'Reilly. The rise to greatness is only possible if the riders can overcome the psychological barrier that these rabid fans heap in front of the heroes. No one could expect or suppose the titanic clash to follow. Rumors from midcourse filtered back to the finish. It was going to be a classic, as the two top riders (TTTT & OTree) matched check points tit for tat ,with OTree gaining ever so slightly on each strength section. With almost 5 seconds to make up to the four time champion, it seemed an impossible task. The officials rechecked the results twice to ensure that the results didn't damage any egos or impart hard feelings, as both riders were more than gracious in their sportsmanship and manner. The final podium spots were filled by Freeride, surprisingly shedding his disappointment and redeeming himself with a hard effort, finishing with a cumulative time of 19:28:31. Taking the palmares and the famous Pink Poster by the slim margin of 00:01:79 over OTree is your champion, TTTT. This is the one event no serious rider should avoid. Make plans for next years 44th version.
Thanks to our sponsors:
Gillette Sensor Razors, for the smoothness you deserve.
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Quacker Oats, for that stick to the ribs, cholesterol lowering advantage.
Thanks to the timing expertise of Monear Concepts, home of the 'Virtual' virtual timing system. Accuracy isn't everything.

Stage results: 1 2 3 Total
1. TTTT 1:02:131 3:29:1341 13:42:421 18:13:865
2. OTree 1:07:143 3:29:1345 13:39:632 18:15:643
3. Freeride 1:19:227 3:32:762 14:45:826 19:28:181

The Podium:

[high life]

I rode 2 laps at Theo tonight. There is a ribbon of nice hard-packed snow winding through the woods, that is about 6" wide. If you stay right on that narrow strip of trail you can really fly! I found that keeping the bike as perpendicular to the ground as possible made for the best handling. Tonight was my first time riding off road on single track in the snow. After tonight I am seriously thinking about giving that Chilly-Chilli a go on Sunday. We'll see.

Lap times:

Lap 1: 20:32
Lap 2: 18:53

[Trevize1138]

So, anyone time their early season laps? :)

I timed my very first lap at Theo at noon on opening day and got 16:30, about two minutes slower than what my average was at the height of last season.

But, I guess it doesn't take too long to re-learn how to ride the trail as yesterday I timed myself for two consecutive laps and got 14:50 the first lap and finished with 29:40. Pretty good consistantcy between laps! :banana:

[Trevize1138]

Was curious what I could get doing four consecutive laps yesterday. Ended up with 57:57. The splits were 14:45, 14:08, 14:04, 15:00.

[stoneage]

Did a post Fruita spin down this afternoon. 2 laps.
13:47 with a 34-20 ss (Fruita climbing gear)
Spun out most of the time because of the small gear, but I needed the work after driving from Nebraska all day.

[flombe]

Chris D gave me a beat down this evening! He was sub-14 and I think he said I was at 14:11. I'll make that my early season benchmark.

[Kosk]

13:47 with a 34-20 ss

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamnnnn!

[Trevize1138]

Did a post Fruita spin down this afternoon. 2 laps.
13:47 with a 34-20 ss (Fruita climbing gear)
Spun out most of the time because of the small gear, but I needed the work after driving from Nebraska all day.

34:20's my normal ratio. I love to spin ;). I got a 13:53 last night.

[Trevize1138]

Chris D gave me a beat down this evening! He was sub-14 and I think he said I was at 14:11. I'll make that my early season benchmark.

Last night was a classic case of my male ego taking me for a ride. I was content to do easy laps and then met up with Eric. As soon as the lap started and I heard his tires humming behind me our fates were sealed for an early-season time trial.

It was an action-packed race, too. I dabbed on the uphill rock garden and Eric went past. Then he slid out on a corner in "Twister" and I was ahead again. I think it was after then I decided to really step on the gas!

[stoneage]

34:20's my normal ratio. I love to spin ;). I got a 13:53 last night.
Nice time. You should try to go a little heavier Chris, as I believe you would drop some time. I have a naturally high cadence (105), but go faster when I can apply more power. Some kid was following me through my cooldown lap, and his dad stacked it hard on a corner just before the end of Whitetail. I ramped it up a bit and he stuck pretty good. He was around 15 years old.

[Trevize1138]

Nice time. You should try to go a little heavier Chris, as I believe you would drop some time. I have a naturally high cadence (105), but go faster when I can apply more power. Some kid was following me through my cooldown lap, and his dad stacked it hard on a corner just before the end of Whitetail. I ramped it up a bit and he stuck pretty good. He was around 15 years old.

I've been thinking about that, in fact. Last year I was following some guy with a 2:1 ratio and noticed several times where he was able to pull on me as a result. I think there's probably something to be said for "the right spin." I never really feel like I'm "topping out" at Theo but It does seem like I'm expending a little more energy trying to sustain higher RPMs in a few spots.

[Trevize1138]

OK. I flipped my 1X1 wheel and am now on the 17 tooth freewheel instead of the 20. We'll see how it works for me.

[stoneage]

OK. I flipped my 1X1 wheel and am now on the 17 tooth freewheel instead of the 20. We'll see how it works for me.
Power, power, power. Hit it out of every corner.

[Trevize1138]

Power, power, power. Hit it out of every corner.

Well, I certainly liked the 2:1 ratio at last night's ride :). My first lap was 13:51, so I guess it's working. I could feel how it benefited, too. It's just as you said: power. While I wasn't "red-lining" with a 34:20 ratio I was spinning fast an awful lot. I didn't realize how much energy I was actually wasting with that until last night.

I did have to stand up in a few spots to utilize that power, but I suppose standing up every now and then ain't so evil.

[ColinSpringer]

Impressive times.

As a very unskilled rider, I've improved from over 25 minutes on my first ride to a best of 18:01 (over about 10 tries).

I'm a stronger trail runner, and you're more likely to see me out there on foot. Yesterday I ran three laps, with a best of 18:06. I find the rock wall and other obstacles much easier to clear without the bike!

Colin

[Trevize1138]

Impressive times.

As a very unskilled rider, I've improved from over 25 minutes on my first ride to a best of 18:01 (over about 10 tries).

I'm a stronger trail runner, and you're more likely to see me out there on foot. Yesterday I ran three laps, with a best of 18:06. I find the rock wall and other obstacles much easier to clear without the bike!

Colin

I think your range of times here is, uh ... "par" for the course :). Most people I've seen hit somewhere in 25 minute range for their first lap at Theo and can get into the 18 minute range no problem. Don't be surprised to see your times get into the 16 minute range yet this year if you're out there enough!

[RedSquirrel]

ego met up with E action-packed race dabbed E slid out decided to really step on gas!

it's a quote, yeah, "quote".

Eric, i've been run'n 32x18 29'er at theo & it's good, what'z your ratio? I was sold on 32x18 then 32x17 26'er, now 29'er 32x???.... Anyway did 4 laps non-stop and still ahead of Drunkn'miller.

You fools ready to take me on for the vfw pitcher bet yet?
Miller, you in? Hope not.

E- glad you knee is better. Go steady and you'll B king soon.

[flombe]

it's a quote, yeah, "quote".

Eric, i've been run'n 32x18 29'er at theo & it's good, what'z your ratio? I was sold on 32x18 then 32x17 26'er, now 29'er 32x???.... Anyway did 4 laps non-stop and still ahead of Drunkn'miller.

You fools ready to take me on for the vfw pitcher bet yet?
Miller, you in? Hope not.

E- glad you knee is better. Go steady and you'll B king soon.

32x18 (which is roughly = to 2:1 ratio on a 26") is perfect for most riding around here (Theo, Mammoth, Leb) except Buck and Afton (I would guess) or any place with longer climbs. My only race at Buck last year I ran 32x20 and that was too big for my lungs on the climbs. I think a 32x22 would be better for me for getting to the top and joining the train through the woods.

The knee is good, but early season SS spinning is causing me a little pain and I will go to the gearie for awhile.

King? King of excuses!

I am up for the beer bet! No losers once you get to the bar! I don't mind buying.;)

[high life]

12:18 tonight

[flombe]

12:18 tonight

Well, it looks like you will be drinking free beer then!

[RedSquirrel]

Well, it looks like you will be drinking free beer then!

What beer, I'm leaving right now for a hot lap. Hope to break 13 and nothing else.

[stoneage]

12:18 tonight
My goal is to come within 30 seconds of that. I have to lose a minute. Best advice for speed on a bike. Don't get old!!;)

[RedSquirrel]

12:18 tonight

13:08 just now. 29'er SS 32x19 (hillside gear), will go back to 32x18 again. One miller for miller.

Flombe, saw your runner this am, I think. Have a good wknd.

[Trevize1138]

12:18 tonight

Well, I feel inadequate. :cool:

[THUMP!]

Out of shape and inexperienced but I enjoyed both loops in a comfortable 40 minutes! Most fun I've had in a long time.

[Paul Swenson]

Well, I feel inadequate. :cool:


Welcome to my world. There's an old saying around here, "inadequacy loves company".

[Stonehenge]

3 hot laps laps on a Pugsley Wed eve - pick a gear and no shifting- SS. First two in the 15s and the third was sub 15 min. What a different ride, alot of work excellerating out of corners. Great work out for upper body too. Impressive corner stick.... got more confidence each lap.

[Chug]

Yeah, but it was fun watching you try to keep up stoener.
14 flat for me. Only one I timed, might have been faster had I ate anything besides a tostinos party pizza before riding,
and thats a personal best.

[stoneage]

13:26 including the extra asphalt loop at the beginning. Subtracted 5 seconds for the dismount around the fallen tree. I should be able to reach PB (minus asphalt loop) within a couple of weeks. too-too-1 SS

[Chug]

Trail was fast today. New best for myself 13:40 and I crashed out around a corner, hit some leaves on the inside of a turn and that was it. I got a nice hipper coming in though.

[Stonehenge]

Yeah, but it was fun watching you try to keep up stoener.
14 flat for me. Only one I timed, might have been faster had I ate anything besides a tostinos party pizza before riding,
and thats a personal best.

I probably looked like your avetar....felt like it anyway, monkeying around on a circius bike. It was fun though and will do it again

I see you posted a faster time since.....you training a little or laying off the pizza pre ride thing.

[Chug]

Hmmm.... how to answer that one.... I have to ride harder to make up for how crappy I treat my body the rest of the time, I guess. Its funny though, Last year I had my fastest times on the days I felt the worst and the weather was at its hottest and most humid. Doesn't make since to me.

[RedSquirrel]

Good to see you sisters out last night. You know who you are. It was nice to do a lap with da wiff too. The house was still stand'n...

Anywho, to make sure my semi squishy bike works, I did a hot lap at lunch today. 12:54 on 26'er soft tail geary. Big ring all the way is the ticket.

Dry, dusty and fast. Slider-ville. It felt so reckless on little wheels. Bounced off a tree with shoulder and forearm. Power slid what seemed forever after cement jump thingy....twas going down fore sure!! Didn't. Whew, what a rush!

[stoneage]

12:54 on 26'er soft tail geary
yeee-hahhh!! Nice!!

Power slid what seemed forever
That's one nice thing about suspensions; eventually they hook up.:)

[Trevize1138]

So, Heath, was that a lap with or without the new little addition at the beginning going over the asphault mounds?

I've started doing laps incorporating that extra section and it's adding :30 seconds to my times. I rode over lunch and did three non-stop laps ending with 44:20. First lap was the fastest at 14:39.

[RedSquirrel]

So, Heath, was that a lap with or without the new little addition at the beginning going over the asphault mounds?

No asphalt. What asphalt? I start at the plastic post at trail entry and loop right. There area few asphalt chunks but no mounds. Are the asphalt mounds left and toward that creek (S.E. from start?) I always stay right.

I don't think I'll change when timing anyway. Just add, if you say so, 30 seconds on as penalty.

[mara]

There is no major asphalt on any legal Theo trail at this time.

Chris, you know what we do to poachers . . . ;)

[Kosk]

12:47 yesterday on gearie HT, only used 2 adjacent gears though. First time under 13!

[RedSquirrel]

12:47 yesterday on gearie HT, only used 2 adjacent gears though. First time under 13!

NICE!!! Makes sense as we we're, what, 2 seconds off each others time at that one race. That hardtail, it's wasn't 50lbs was it? The next tacky day will be crazy. Got to get'er done before all the shrubbery gets in the way.

[Kosk]

That hardtail, it's wasn't 50lbs was it?

No, its actually my decade old cromo schwinn moab 1, with an 80mm marz and arch rival brakes ~ 30#. I've been falling in love with that bike all over again this spring, the "traditional" geo is really the ticket for blasting thru tight twisties at Theo.

[steef]

Shhh, don't let everyone know that old school is fastest way to get through Theo. ;)

[bovaddict]

the asphalt to the left at the very beginning.. that little section is fun....

also are your guys lap times including b section or no? just beginning sign to beginning sign or beginning sign through a then the dirt road and then the path to b and then b? i wanna know what time to post next time im there.. for which loop

[stoneage]

the asphalt to the left at the very beginning.. that little section is fun....

also are your guys lap times including b section or no? just beginning sign to beginning sign or beginning sign through a then the dirt road and then the path to b and then b? i wanna know what time to post next time im there.. for which loop
The 'traditional loop' at Theo has been from the North start intersection (rock pile with sign) and back. I have been throwing in the immediate small techy loop at the very beginning. It adds about 30 seconds.

[high life]

12:47 yesterday on gearie HT, only used 2 adjacent gears though. First time under 13!

Nice Pete! That's fast.

[Yammer]

When people are posting times, are they measuring the total time for both loops or just the North loop?

Pat

[stoneage]

When people are posting times, are they measuring the total time for both loops or just the North loop? Pat

That's the N loop from the entry intersection and back. Tom M has the best I've heard at 11:34(?). There are a few more at sub 12 and a bunch at sub 13.
I used to time the whole thing from 55-55. 20-22 minutes would be good.

[bovaddict]

ok i was gonna say wow im far behind but im running in the 15's which isnt bad.. ive been going to lebanon a lot lately maybe those times will lower next time? well see.. i hope.. ill be sure to post em up im planning on going sunday? (rain tomorrow)

[bovaddict]

first day with my clip ins i did this

-first lap i ran a 16:45(suspension was set too soft, seat too low, getting used to clip ins)
-3 runs at the b course
-second full lap i ran a 15:34 or so with my suspension set stiffer front and rear. i bet i could do a 14 though.. i wasnt very happy with it but ya.. next time ill say i could throw a 14 something down. i hope :-/

[stoneage]

Tried to beat the rain and hustled over to Wirth. It cleared up but there were light sprinkles. TA-kee!! 12:48 and 12:51, and that's with a 4 hour road ride yesterday. It's as sticky as I've ever seen. You can just rail the corners with no fear.

[rideharder]

dont you work? haha.

[stoneage]

dont you work?
huh??? Didn't you look at the times?

[[defective]]

First lap today suggested I've been spending too much time at Leb. Bounced off a couple of trees and felt sloppy in the tight corners.

Second lap felt a little better at 13:48 even though the front tire was doing it's best to wash out.

Dropped the tire pressures to sub 30 in front and about 30 in back and hit 13:27 for the third lap. Personal best.

Yay, me.

[flombe]

;219702'].....Bounced off a couple of trees.....

Note: no lap time content. I was caught asleep at the bars last Thursday. Low speed. Nailed a tree square shortly after the climb up the rocks with right end of bar. My thumb and the first 3 fingers stayed on grip, pinky stuck with the tree and went AWOL on me. Bars quickly turned to right. Body continued forward. OTB. Ground. Ouch. Right side of right hand turned into a throbbing pillow. Rode the lakes tonight, a little stiff and pinky wants to float above grip. All good.

Moral of the story = pay attention when riding in the woods.

[stoneage]

pay attention
Sometimes it just doesn't matter. Both of my little fingers belong to Theo, at least all the sensations they used to feel.I know exactly which tree you hit.

[stoneage]

In honor of the NVGP downtown tonight.
12:42 north loop. Not bad considering the dust.:)
3:09 south loop. I can't remember the last time I timed that loop, so I don't know if that's good or not. Fell off the ride over, but kept going.

[Hertz14]

WOW....that's fast. Single speed or are you shifting alot?

[MrBatzloff]

15 minutes flat for the north side. That was last tuesday and the first time I'd clocked a lap. I finally got the hang of the uphill rock slide. Yahoo.

When I did this timed lap I skipped the goat trail that's about halfway through. Personally, I really like that section but didn't think people were riding it when timing (because it doesn't look like it's ridden often). How do other people like that section?

[MrBatzloff]

One more thing...

Bill O'Reilly's my hero.

I think he passed me (very quickly) on that Superman lap.

[RedSquirrel]

When I did this timed lap I skipped the goat trail that's about halfway through. Personally, I really like that section but didn't think people were riding it when timing (because it doesn't look like it's ridden often). How do other people like that section?

I like that steep windy un-ridden section but hardly ride it. No not part of the timed laps. Don't think it's supported by norm.

[high life]

12:42 north loop. Not bad considering the dust.:)
3:09 south loop. I can't remember the last time I timed that loop, so I don't know if that's good or not. Fell off the ride over, but kept going.

Nice riding Bill!!:banana: If I'm anywhere near as fast as you when I'm your age (or even 20 years from now), I'll be very happy. I'll have to find you out on the trail sometime so we can rage through a lap.

[ninjanick]

What is this goat path you guys speak of? About mid way thu I've noticed a little offshoot that heads stright down the hill and it almost look like people are doing a little out and back on that, is that it?

[MrBatzloff]

That's the one. It's slow, but really technical and really fun. Steep climbs and track-stand maneuvering. Since so few ride it every time I pass someone a little ways back from the offshoot I end up passing them again after the goat trail. Dirty looks are usually given when passing someone for the second time.

[stoneage]

What is this goat path you guys speak of? About mid way thu I've noticed a little offshoot that heads stright down the hill and it almost look like people are doing a little out and back on that, is that it?
There are a lot of old school trails in the section next to the golf course. There used to be a plan to rebuild them, but nothing got done. Here (http://24.118.139.1/~williamoreilly/maybe.jpg) is the area with the proposal. You are now entering the section between the two green spots towards the bottom. The North part is accessible from the intersection by the top yellow dot. I kind of hope they leave the area alone now, as only a few ride it and it has some actual skill involved to ride some of it.

[rfd425]

I finally broke 18:00 tonight (not a typo), clocking a 17:47 on my second of three laps. Man, I don't know how you fast guys do it, because I was riding as fast as I could. I mean, I can see where I might pick up as much as maybe a minute, but I don't think I'll be doing a sub-14 in this lifetime.

I don't think it's my fitness level that makes me slow, because I am always ready to pedal hard and fast on the uphills and the less-twisty parts, and I am generally pretty fresh when I finish a lap (or two or three). I believe my pace is due to (1) my lack of skill, and (2) my fear of getting hurt, not necessarily in that order.

[Hertz14]

A friend and I completed our first lap in 17:30 and I was drained. We waited about 5 min and hit it again. I quit timing because I wiped out(hard) then wanted to hit that last section of jumps again to end on a good note before we called it quits.

[rfd425]

that last section of jumpsThat is one of the places where both my lack of skill and my fear of getting hurt slow me down, especially after wiping out and and cracking my ribs last year on the last jump.

[Konaboy]

There used to be a plan to rebuild them, but nothing got done. Here (http://24.118.139.1/%7Ewilliamoreilly/maybe.jpg) is the area with the proposal.

Is that plan officially dead now? It would be a shame if it was.

[THUMP!]

The first time I rode on a trail was at Theo in May of this year and I completed a lap in 45 minutes...that included much swearing, broken chainring teeth and lots of bruises. I have now been to a couple of trails and have ridden Theo about 10 times. Tonight I clocked my first lap and came in at 16:50 so I feel pretty happy knowing that I have improved. I did push it a bit and it was a little slippery in some of the corners and I didn't completely clear the rock garden that time but it felt pretty good. Thanks to everyone that has been supportive to a newbie.
I won't be clocking Murphy until I bring my endurance WAY up!

[Trevize1138]

Yeah! Way to go, dude! :banana: With that kind of time you won't be bringing up the rear at any Theo group rides!


The first time I rode on a trail was at Theo in May of this year and I completed a lap in 45 minutes...that included much swearing, broken chainring teeth and lots of bruises. I have now been to a couple of trails and have ridden Theo about 10 times. Tonight I clocked my first lap and came in at 16:50 so I feel pretty happy knowing that I have improved. I did push it a bit and it was a little slippery in some of the corners and I didn't completely clear the rock garden that time but it felt pretty good. Thanks to everyone that has been supportive to a newbie.
I won't be clocking Murphy until I bring my endurance WAY up!

[mara]

Is that plan officially dead now? It would be a shame if it was.

No, but it is being postponed because the city is too busy working on the routing of the Luce Line and other "priority" projects to spend the time to get that section approved right now. No negative thoughts towards city planners, though; they have a ton on their plate right now. While we're all anxious to start building new trail again, the delay will give us a chance to re-singletrack the current trail and improve some areas that could really use love and attention.

[Jeff Lewis]

13:35 today.

A few observations --

1. Theo is all about grip. Ran 28 psi front and 31 rear in 26" tubless tires. Gotta believe that 29" tires with even lower psi would be faster. Anyone agree?

2. My average heart rate for this lap was 15 bpm lower than at Buck Hill.

3. Only riding a cross bike on the open road makes for weak handling skills.

4. Hip checking a tree at speed really stings! It's fine now, but man I could have really used my mommy.

[stoneage]

Theo is all about grip.
2.1 Small Block 8's with lots of air (thin sidewalls)

15 bpm lower
You never really do red line there.

29" tires would be faster
These are the fastest tire size/times I know:
26 TM 11:34
26 ?
26 ?
29 TTTT
29 TMac
26 FC
26 UR
26 ? 12:41
I'm sure there are a lot of people not posting or don't care. These are N loop only.

[Jeff Lewis]

Those small block 8's look like the ticket. I take it your running the tube'd version and not UST?

Do you think the same tires would be good at Hillside? With the roots there I wonder if pinch flats would be an issue.

Right now I'm running UST Twister Pro 1.9's and the rear is just about bald. I'm ready to pounce on to something better.

[stoneage]

tube'd version
SB8's run better at higher pressure. I zap em to 35-40 for Theo so they don't squirm and 45 for Fruita when I don't want pinch flats. One flat in 2 years at Fruita. They aren't the most durable overall, but you can't beat the grip. Nevegals are the exact same pattern with less knobs for looser and wetter conditions. Soupboy loves them on his big wheeled funny bike.;)

[flombe]

SB8's run better at higher pressure. I zap em to 35-40 for Theo so they don't squirm and 45 for Fruita when I don't want pinch flats. One flat in 2 years at Fruita. They aren't the most durable overall, but you can't beat the grip. Nevegals are the exact same pattern with less knobs for looser and wetter conditions. Soupboy loves them on his big wheeled funny bike.;)

I ran them tubed 29er for the first time at Theo on Sunday and I am very pleased. Hard to judge the grip because anything will grab in the tacky conditions. Having said that the traction was excellent and I expect it to be very good overall. The roll is fantastically fast!!!! Fastest 29er tire for me so far.

[Slimpee]

Today was my fourth (fifth?) time at Theo since I picked up mtn. biking a month ago so I decided to time my ride on the first lap. I didn't push it too hard because i'm not terribly familiar with the course yet so i came in at a somewhat leisurely 18:01. I pushed a little harder on my second lap and felt like I was perhaps 30 seconds faster. Not exactly speedy gonzalez pace but i'm pleased. I'll feel a lot more comfortable with a few more laps. Well, that, and I have to learn how to ride...

[goatgirl]

Those small block 8's look like the ticket. I take it your running the tube'd version and not UST?

Do you think the same tires would be good at Hillside? With the roots there I wonder if pinch flats would be an issue.

Right now I'm running UST Twister Pro 1.9's and the rear is just about bald. I'm ready to pounce on to something better.


I have the Specialized Houffalize UST and I love them I don't know if they are in fact the small block 8's that you speak of, but they have 8 small square knobs across a 1.8 tire. I love them because they shed any mud you may find racing and corner nicely on sand while keeping the rubber down on all kinds of rocks and tech stuff. The small width requires more tech skill but the speed makes up for it. I do all kinds of obstacles with these tires on and have never faulted them for any mistakes I have done.

here is a review from MTBR
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Tire/product_125753.shtml

give them a try I think you will like them for racing.

[RedSquirrel]

These are the fastest tire size/times I know:
26 TM 11:34
26 ?
26 ?
29 TTTT
29 TMac
26 FC
26 UR
26 ? 12:41
I'm sure there are a lot of people not posting or don't care. These are N loop only.

I've hit 12:40 multiple times on 29"er SS w/kenda karma LCR front, 8-block rear. Can't wait to hit some tacky daze b4 the the trees start shakin leaves!!

Congrats to all improving lap times, stay at it, you'll continue to surprise yourself!!

[stoneage]

Kenda Small Block 8 specs:
SB8 (http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/JohnTomac.html)

Revised lap times. Kinda like the velodrome (sub 12...sub13 goal) I don't see a sub 11 though.:crazy:
26 TM 11:34
26 ? ??
26 ? ??
29 TTTT 12:05
29 TMac 12:18
26 FC 12:20
26 UR 12:35
29 HW 12:40
26 ? 12:41

[high life]

2.1 Small Block 8's with lots of air (thin sidewalls)
I agree. Suprisingly the SB8s seem to track better, while still maintaining the same amount of traction, at relatively higher pressure. At first I was running them at 30(R) and 28(F) PSI respectively, but bumped them up to 40ish for a race. They felt way faster and still stuck to the ground like velcro.

[MrBatzloff]

I'm coming a little late into this conversation....

Do the SB8's work well as a rear tire? I was also considering the nevegal. These would be in the 2.35 format.

I'm currently running a 2.5 weirwolf up front and a mutano raptor 2.4 in the rear. the 2.4 rubs a bit so I need to swap it.

[Slimpee]

I timed my first lap today and was pleased with a 16:45. I was running too much pressure (40-45) so I was bouncing off of stuff and not biting. I would've lowered the pressure but my front time is over 10 years old so i didn't want to risk flexing and blowing a sidewall. I don't know how much faster I want to go w/ my horribly crappy cantilever brakes but I think that 16-flat will be a good goal for next time. I think it's possible once i get more used to the trail and start to memorize it a little bit.

[stoneage]

I'm coming a little late into this conversation....
Do the SB8's work well as a rear tire? I was also considering the nevegal. These would be in the 2.35 format.
I'm currently running a 2.5 weirwolf up front and a mutano raptor 2.4 in the rear. the 2.4 rubs a bit so I need to swap it.
The Nevegal and SB8 use exactly the same tread pattern. The SB8 just has a lot more knobs. I would assume that SB8 would be better in hard pack and Nevegal would be a little better in sandy, looser tread and definitely better when wet or muddy. I have 2.3 F and 2.1 R, but didn't notice much difference with a 2.1 F. Fill them up though, they handle better.

[syntaxjunkie]

hey justin, was that you i was talking to at the trailhead yesterday? i was the brown kona explosif 29er ss. i took a nice little spill that scrambled a few of the brain wires and obviously disconnected my manners, as i never introduced myself.

on a related note, yesterday was my first try at running the small block 8s. i'll go with bill on the pressure side: i started at about 35psi, tried dropping to about 30, and then went back up to something like 40. more is better. although i might go back to something with a bit more knob bite (like the maxxis rubber i was running previously) up front.

[steef]

I don't know how much faster I want to go w/ my horribly crappy cantilever brakes but I think that 16-flat will be a good goal for next time. I think it's possible once i get more used to the trail and start to memorize it a little bit.
NOT using the brakes seems to be the key to the really fast lap times. Try riding a little slower and use your whole body to snake through the tight sections. But mainly, as you said, it's knowing the trail very well that will improve your times the most.

[Slimpee]

hey justin, was that you i was talking to at the trailhead yesterday? i was the brown kona explosif 29er ss. i took a nice little spill that scrambled a few of the brain wires and obviously disconnected my manners, as i never introduced myself.

on a related note, yesterday was my first try at running the small block 8s. i'll go with bill on the pressure side: i started at about 35psi, tried dropping to about 30, and then went back up to something like 40. more is better. although i might go back to something with a bit more knob bite (like the maxxis rubber i was running previously) up front.


It was me that you talked to. Yeah, sorry, should've introduced myself. I'm hoping to get out to the trail again this week. See ya around!

[Humpty]

I started timing myself on the north loop in June - 1st timed lap was 18:58. I've since done in the neighborhood of 25 laps. Next goal was sub 18 minute, then sub 17, then expected to spend the rest of the summer trying to get deep into the 16's. I got into the 16's in mid August, I believe primarily because I was learning the loop. My corner speed was WAY up, and I learned my pace. This thread has inspired me - and I'm happy to say that today, 2 days before my 40th birthday, I ran an unsuspecting lap of 15:35. New goal for next year - sub 15's. Woo hoo!

:banana:

PS: I still have a rough time conquering the rock armour hillclimb. I'd swear those rocks are getting bigger....

[Trevize1138]

hey justin, was that you i was talking to at the trailhead yesterday? i was the brown kona explosif 29er ss. i took a nice little spill that scrambled a few of the brain wires and obviously disconnected my manners, as i never introduced myself.

on a related note, yesterday was my first try at running the small block 8s. i'll go with bill on the pressure side: i started at about 35psi, tried dropping to about 30, and then went back up to something like 40. more is better. although i might go back to something with a bit more knob bite (like the maxxis rubber i was running previously) up front.

28 in front, 35 in back. ;) Of course, I'm running a wide Ryno Lite rim in the front. Anything below 32 in the back and the tire starts folding but I've run 20 psi up front by accident and still not had it fold over on me. I'm 190lbs and my tires are each 2.25''.

Don't be afraid to go lower than you'd ever dare with PSI, Justin, at least just to give it a try.

[stoneage]

I predict a new record; maybe not this year but next spring for sure. The tree clearing exposed 3 or 4 of the more technical corners (bar grabbers gone and sight lines improved). A lot of the smaller trees were flattened by the windfall. I turned a 13:44 tonight on my 4th lap. I broke the ribs 5 weeks ago, but I felt comfortable cruising, albiet a little tentative (rightly so) on some of the leafy corners. Trail was very tacky, but the leaves are going to start coming soon. LOTS of deer this year.

[jitterjepp]

We saw a massive grey horned owl last night too.

[stoneage]

We saw a massive grey horned owl last night too.
Which section? There used to be one in the section just South of the prairie where the rotted red tree is.

[guest_s]

You may think you people will get better lap times without a lot of the trees after the storm, more like a tornado. But you know, we all like tight and twisty ....right? So we plan to keep it that way......heh.....heh.....heh.....:evil:

[Skazi]

I did 16:13 today, on the first time I've timed it. This is about the 8th time I've ridden the loop. I think I've got room for improvement in fitness, skills, and familiarity with the trail, so I'm happy.

[Nickel]

I never timed myself but I did my first lap in 20:33 and my second in 18:26. I know two sections that I lose a lot of speed on and once I can make it through the rock garden, I think it will be better.

[THUMP!]

I never timed myself but I did my first lap in 20:33 and my second in 18:26. I know two sections that I lose a lot of speed on and once I can make it through the rock garden, I think it will be better.
What happened to you this morning?

[Nickel]

What happened to you this morning?

I was asked out on a breakfast date and I couldn't resist. Breakfast is my favorite meal. :D I didn't have anyone's phone number and I thought posting (around 8:30am) would have been pointless.

[THUMP!]

I expect some bacon when I see you next.

[Whatsmymantra?]

First lap just under a half hour, second lap a little longer.

[Skazi]

I did 18:17 and 17:30 today, taking it pretty easy. I'm including the new dump loop spur, which seems to add about a minute, for me.

That gives me the 2 best posted times of 2008 :banana:

[Trevize1138]

Scored my first sub 15:00 for the season riding a "full" lap (one that includes the short spur right off the start in Connundrum.) I figure that adds roughly :45 to my times (gives me a good feel for how I'm doing compared to previous years). Did two consecutive laps and the first was 14:59 (squeaked by!) and was at 30:20 by the end, so lap #2 was a hair slower. That puts me around 14:15-14:35 if I skipped the spur, roughly on-par with my laps last year. That damn 14:00 barrier, man! I've only broken it two or three times!

More fun: if you ride SS like me, post up your gear ratio and wheel size. It'll be interesting to see what gearings go with what times.

Me tonight: 32:18x26''

[Skazi]

16:21 just now, riding at about 9/10ths effort. I expected better.

[Trevize1138]

16:21 just now, riding at about 9/10ths effort. I expected better.

As did I. (turns away in a huff)

[MrBatzloff]

15:30 yesterday afternoon. I did a 14:15 last year, so hopefully I'll get that tim back soon.

I was a little worn out on my ride, hopefully better next time..But the trail was in great shape. Thanks for the work Trail Crew.

I saw you out there yesterday, Chris...can't miss the glasses!