Lessons I Learned at Lebanon Hills Today

[Shickdawg]

1. If I am going to successfully ride in the Chain Drive next weekend, I need to do a much better job pacing myself. I almost totally bonked at the 3.5 mile mark of my ride today. Which leads me to believe...
2. I'm not in as good of shape as I thought I was. I'm doing okay, but not great.
3. Clipless Pedals + Me + Rock Gardens = "Crash & Go Boom". Twice. In the same little garden. :hit:

Fun ride anyways.

[Trevize1138]

It's easy to bonk when you're riding by yourself and concentrating on training. What's more beneficial than going out race-pace for a workout is a whole lot of LSD (Long, Slow Distance). Once a week, maybe twice, you should try to do a fast, hard workout. Every other time just slow down and enjoy yourself :).

[waitabit]

It's easy to bonk when you're riding by yourself and concentrating on training. What's more beneficial than going out race-pace for a workout is a whole lot of LSD (Long, Slow Distance). Once a week, maybe twice, you should try to do a fast, hard workout. Every other time just slow down and enjoy yourself :).I thought LSD stood for "Left Side Drive", or something like that?:shocked: :confused: :crazy2:

[umdivx]

I thought LSD stood for "Left Side Drive", or something like that?:shocked: :confused: :crazy2: or if your a car nut, its Limited Slip Differentail :)

But anyways I know what you mean on being outta shape, I hit hillside on Saturday and I was completely dead 2/3's into it, when a buddy of mine, who never ridden single track before was tearing it up.

- Josh

[Brick]

1. If I am going to successfully ride in the Chain Drive next weekend, I need to do a much better job pacing myself. I almost totally bonked at the 3.5 mile mark of my ride today. Which leads me to believe...
2. I'm not in as good of shape as I thought I was. I'm doing okay, but not great.
3. Clipless Pedals + Me + Rock Gardens = "Crash & Go Boom". Twice. In the same little garden. :hit:


Hmmm....some things:

1. Chris has a good plan w. a hard/fast workout a couple of times per week. Try working some interval training into the hard workouts--this will help you get your wind back quicker. Either running or on a bike, the cardio effect will be the same. Work in some hills from time to time to develop power as well.

2. Nutrition--get your body used to taking in calories every 40 minutes or so during a workout (sports drink, gu, whatever.....). This will help stave off the dreaded bonk on long workouts. Calories before, during, and after.

3. Can't help you with the rock garden, I still suck at those too...:crazy:

May not help much for Chain Drive, but there's still the Ore to Shore...right?

[Adam Hjelle]

3. Can't help you with the rock garden, I still suck at those too...:crazy:



Yeah, me too, I the rock garden with the right hand turn, I can't figure it out, I always seem to stall out right before the turn. I may go to Leb and just watch which line people are taking.

[Uncle Leo]

I know what you mean, more often than not, I end up concentrating so hard on getting through the rocks, I end up on a collision course with the tree at the end (the one you hit if you don't make the right-hand turn).

The thing is, the times I make the turn I'm like 'oh that's the line, I'll have to remember that next time'. Why I can never recreate it the next time, who knows.

[Tex]

Yeah, me too, I the rock garden with the right hand turn, I can't figure it out, I always seem to stall out right before the turn. I may go to Leb and just watch which line people are taking.

As I recall when I used to ride my hard tail out at Leb, you need to take that turn wide. As you enter into it, shoot toward the far left side, weave around a few of the rocks on the outer edge, then cut back hard between the trees. But I suppose it probably sounds easier on paper. But like all things worth doing, just keep practicing. I rode Theo with a friend this weekend, and he was on a hardtail. He had to dab on the new rock garden on his first lap, but he cleared it on the next two. All he said was speed is key.
Since I've been riding the full suspension bike, I've never had to stop for them. In fact I never really have to pick a line at all. But that's not always a good thing, it can make you lazy. That's why I still keep my hardtail around, so I can get out on that and relearn how to ride again.

[Trevize1138]

The Leb rock garden is tricky sometimes but Shawn's right about the line to take =) Stay to the left and you'll be good.

My other general advice about rock gardens is to pretend they're not there as much as is possible given the situation. Heh. It's kind of like telling you "Don't think about a pink elephant chasing a VW" but ... Just don't look at the individual rocks. They're not as tall or as big as you think and you'll be able to roll over them easier than you think.

[homebrewbiker]

If you are getting stuck at stuff at Lebanon go to Shad's skills sessions, they will go through all of the tricky parts in both X and XX sections. And the correct line through the X rock garden is definitely left, it is always a plus if you can avoind the tree though:D

[Shickdawg]

My other general advice about rock gardens is to pretend they're not there as much as is possible given the situation. Heh. It's kind of like telling you "Don't think about a pink elephant chasing a VW" but ... Just don't look at the individual rocks. They're not as tall or as big as you think and you'll be able to roll over them easier than you think.

This has been my suspicion recently, and after the disaster at the first garden, I worked hard at looking farther down the trail, seeing the garden as a whole, keeping my speed up and not letting each rock mess with me psychologically. The subsequent gardens went much better, though I just clipped out and walked the one you guys have been discussing-- Discretion being the better part of valor and whatnot.

The worst part of the first garden was that I fell over standing still. I was trying to pedal through, but got stuck, and couldn't get my foot off the pedal fast enough. Then, as I stood there catching my breath with just my right foot clipped in, I fell over again. :eyeroll: Totally felt like a putz there.

You know, I don't know if I would do a decent job of riding slow anymore. I hit the saddle and just want to jet.

[Adam Hjelle]

If you are getting stuck at stuff at Lebanon go to Shad's skills sessions, they will go through all of the tricky parts in both X and XX sections. And the correct line through the X rock garden is definitely left, it is always a plus if you can avoind the tree though:D

The tree is a definate pyscological factor there, as well as the fact that it is slightly up hill. Rock gardens have always given me problems, mostly because, until recently I haven't looked far enough ahead and focus on individual obsticals, now I am handling them better as I am looking ahead and letting my peripheral vision handle the details. Amazing how much faster I can ride now.

[Trevize1138]

Riding Lebanon at night really helped me with a lot of the obstacles. The lights on your bike make rocks seem shorter and flatter, somehow. Turns out it's a lot closer to what they're really like. For some reason daylight exaggerates the size of things like that.

So, riding at night the rock gardens just *looked* 1/2 as intimidating. As a result, they were 1/2 as difficult to ride :)

[Uncle Leo]

It took me 4 or 5 times before I could get past the rock garden in the intermediate loop (shortly before the X entrance). Once I did it once, though, I hardly even notice it anymore.
I keep thinking I should get to that point on the X rock garden, where it's second nature.

I know speed helps, but what's interesting is that some of the times I've made it through the right-hand turn part, I actually got stuck at the initial part of the X garden (the first part of the hill where you go up a rock between 2 trees). So in those cases I'm starting again from a standstill. Maybe I'm getting a longer look at what's ahead so I pick a better line.

Regardless, I KNOW that the way through is to the left, funny how it just usually doesn't work out that way.

This is what I love about MTBiking, by the way. I always get a little adrenaline rush on the way to the trail because I know on any given day, there are some things I won't make it past, and others that I will. If I could just go ride everything without a little fear, what would be the challenge of that?

[homebrewbiker]

I always get stuck on that stupid hill between the 2 rocks.

[Adam Hjelle]

I always get stuck on that stupid hill between the 2 rocks.

This thread is really quite refreshing, actually, as I now don't feel like such a doof for not being able to make it through that garden.

[tedsti]

Some would use this to describe most of Lebanon.:laugh:

that stupid hill between the 2 rocks.

[Trevize1138]

I should point out that I "conquered" the X-loop rock garden ... uh, two years ago? Holy crap, that trail's been there that long?!?! :shocked:

Anyway, I thought I had conquered it. Then I got a singlespeed :D Yeah ... time to un-learn what I had learned.

So, I developed two different techniques for that rock garden:

Geared: Don't be afraid of your granny gear. Downshift to that just before the rock between the trees at the bottom of the hill leading up to the rock garden. Spin the hell out of the rock garden and it will go a lot easier.

Singlespeed: Here comes the hill, time to downshift to granny- Oh crap! :crazy: This is probably the better of these two techniques and how you should take the rock garden even with gears: anticipate the gap between the trees with the rock at the bottom of the uphill leading to the rock garden. Build up speed going into those trees to carry you through that, then use a lot of energy to go faster up the hill to the rock garden and carry as much of that speed through the rock garden as possible. Be aggressive and attack it. The rocks should fear you, not the other way around (totally ripped-off line from Million-Dollar Baby :crazy: )

There you have it: gears make you lazy and scared :laugh:

[Trevize1138]

This thread is really quite refreshing, actually, as I now don't feel like such a doof for not being able to make it through that garden.

Many have asserted that the X-loop rock garden is the most technically-challenging part of the trail, even more than anything you find in the XX loop.

[socrates]

I hate this thread....it's really making me miss being able to ride at LH :(

[dave t]

Here's my take on the rock garden section in X:

At the bottom of the hill leading in, I run wide to the left and use the big rock to guide my turn up the hill and then power up between the trees.
This is the trickiest part in my opinion and I will wait back a bit if other riders are there to be sure not to throw off my flow.

I take the main garden lead-in turn tight and then roll right over the middle of the boulders.

As I come off the big rocks, I aim diagonally right through the two trees and essentially make the turn after the trees. The only thing that spooks me a bit about this line is the large rock on the right that seems to want to make my bike into a three speed (front shifting only). I have never actually hit the derailler but I always think about it.

That line has always been the ticket for me even before my long travel bike.

[Ish]

Reading through this thread, I hear some people saying they go to the inside and others to the outside. What I do is take a little different route each time - that way it keeps your skills sharper and creates more of a challenge. It's not all about finding the easiest say!

[BrightYellow]

It's not all about finding the easiest say!

Hey! That's what I always say! What's the point of a rock garden if all you are doing is trying to find the easiest way through it??? You should be trying to find the toughest way through it! Otherwise, just get rid of the thing... that would be the easiest...

[transplant]

I find the best way to go, whether geared, FS or SS, is to close my eyes and hit the rocks fast. Then you turn your cranks 2.5 times and go right. Take a few more bouces, open your eyes and, voila, you've cleared it!:banana: Actually, even in a higher gear, like an SS, if you have decent balance you can get through by going slowly and picking your way. I know most people don't go bombing through at a high rate of speed, my self included. Self preservation and all. It's hard to explain, but you can point and shoot right over it.

[dave t]

Reading through this thread, I hear some people saying they go to the inside and others to the outside. What I do is take a little different route each time - that way it keeps your skills sharper and creates more of a challenge. It's not all about finding the easiest say!

That is a really good point and many time I start a ride with that attitude and just fall into habits. I've put in so many laps out there that I have found the lines and just get locked into them. That is one thing that would be very cool about reversing the trail for a new perspective on everything out there.

Another thing would be a few obstacles that almost nobody makes more than 50% of the time. Something like a 30 foot section of 6 to 8 inch logs with spacing varied from 1 to 3 feet. A super tricky timing nightmare that would have EVERYONE crying about flow.

[Tex]

Reading through this thread, I hear some people saying they go to the inside and others to the outside. What I do is take a little different route each time - that way it keeps your skills sharper and creates more of a challenge. It's not all about finding the easiest say!

Coming from a man who rides a five inch travel bike, who hasn't had to actually "pick a line" all year. The easiest way? Crash you're sitting on "the easiest way", every time you take that Turner out for a ride.:etard:

[mtnbykr]

.... Something like a 30 foot section of 6 to 8 inch logs with spacing varied from 1 to 3 feet. A super tricky timing nightmare that would have EVERYONE crying about flow.

but how natural would this be??

you guys need to come to dulluth and ride. i've gotta little section of rocks that flow does you no good on. you gotta ride the rocks, up a hill, more rocks, over the live tree limb [ :?)], more rocks and the thing that keeps you honest is... if you don't make it, you fall at least 10' into the creek.

this is 100% natural. no one could build something this sick.

kl

[Ish]

Coming from a man who rides a five inch travel bike, who hasn't had to actually "pick a line" all year. The easiest way? Crash you're sitting on "the easiest way", every time you take that Turner out for a ride.:etard:

HA HA HA I was waiting for someone to post this - just didn't expect it to be you ;)

But yes, back when I had a hard tail and some skills to go with it...........
Now I just plow through the rocks with a big **** eating grin on my face wondering my it took me so long to see the light!!!!

[Trevize1138]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Craig Ishman taking the left-hand line through the rock garden:

http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/513/1timetrials04_058.jpg

[Uncle Leo]

Why does it look so ridiculously easy in the picture?

Either Craig is 10 feet tall, or the camera angle took about 6 inches off those rocks.

Can't wait to hit it again!

[socrates]

Why does it look so ridiculously easy in the picture?

Either Craig is 10 feet tall, or the camera angle took about 6 inches off those rocks.

Can't wait to hit it again!

Once you finally master it it will seem easy....my first time up there I hated it....

[Trevize1138]

Why does it look so ridiculously easy in the picture?

Either Craig is 10 feet tall, or the camera angle took about 6 inches off those rocks.

Can't wait to hit it again!

Like I said. It's all in the mind :) The rocks only look like they're gonna jump up and bite you. In reality, they're just as tiny as the picture makes 'em.

Actually, the picture is shot with somewhat of a wide angle, which makes everyhting on the edges look flatter, so ... :crazy:

[Ish]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Craig Ishman taking the left-hand line through the rock garden:

On a hard tail, in lycra while smiling :D

Thanks Chris Drunkenmiller!