The future?

[FSSS]

Think this thing will make derailleurs go the way of cantis and 1" steerers??


http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/1037gearbox.jpg

[stoneage]

It looks like ice and mud will stop that thing in it's tracks. Neccessity is the mother of invention. I guess that is why the standard bicyle design has lasted so long. Improvements are hard to come by.

[SprocketHead]

Has anybody seen the Shimano Nexus internal geared hub? They have been around for many years in one form or another. They use them all over Europe... I wonder if they are strong enough for mtb. I would think that these would be the way to go. Anybody heard or seen anything about any mtb testing with them?

[stoneage]

Has anybody seen the Shimano Nexus internal geared hub? They have been around for many years in one form or another. They use them all over Europe... I wonder if they are strong enough for mtb. I would think that these would be the way to go. Anybody heard or seen anything about any mtb testing with them?
They were looked at in the early to middle 90's. The downside is water and dirt. There is an opening to the elements that made them suspect to failure.

[FSSS]

Has anybody seen the Shimano Nexus internal geared hub? Anybody heard or seen anything about any mtb testing with them?
Yeah, GT has a prototype that has a Nexus hub tucked into the frame:

http://content.mtbr.com/TRP_7_180_1crx.aspx

It says production is scheduled for March 2005. Looks pretty cool.

[soupboy]

the Nexus has been around for a while - cheaper, simpler and heavier than a Rohloff. Also, prone to failure and lacking in disc compatibility in the context of MTBing. I do like GT's take on it (no disc issues) although it is a plain ripoff of long-standing Nicolai designs.

Shimano would be the obvious choice to introduce a stout, performance-oriented, reasonably priced (vs. $1K for the Rohloff) internally geared hub for the masses. Unfortunately it would also be a direct threat to cannibalize their existing core bidness.

Now, if only Rohloff would simplify their design down to 8-9 speeds and lighten it up a tad...

Sean

[FSSS]

All the gearbox designs I've seen pics of are sealed (or going to be sealed once in production), so the elements shouldn't be a problem.

Not sure if this goes for the Hayes and the GT designs, but one cool thing about the Honda gearbox is that the freewheel is at the BB. This means if the wheel is spinning, the gearbox is spinning, and you don't have to be pedaling to shift. As long as the wheel is moving, you can shift.

[SprocketHead]

WOW! That is exciting news..We need an advancement in MTB gears. I'm sure that the Nexus/Rohloff gearbox could be made much lighter than derailers.. We all know we only need a few gears, as long as we have a decent range of ratios.

I hope some enterprising bike manufacturer(s) are listening!

[ryno lite]

Nexus isn't up to the mtb thing from what I've read, but the Rohloff is up to the task no problem. In fact, they never fail from what I've heard if they are set up right. Downsides as stated in many posts in the past are the weight and price of Rohloff. I actually don't think the price is a downside of the Rohloff, cause the cost savings of never having to replace drivetrains would more than pay for a Rohloff. You'd probably save money in the long run. The internal hub future is here, we are just too scared to try it out because it isn't a corporate giant like Shimano. They have a superior product to anything on the market, but all you hear is the extra weight and cost (actually overall cost savings in my opinion) of the Rohloff. How many upgrades have been expensive and made our bikes heavier yet we embraced them? Front suspension, rear suspension and disc brakes are all items that made our bikes cost more and weigh more yet we embraced them. Why not the Rohloff internal hub? I'd love to build my next bike up with a Rohloff. It would make for a near maintenance free bike! Oh well, I would just love to have one I guess!

[ryno lite]

Think this thing will make derailleurs go the way of cantis and 1" steerers??


http://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/1037gearbox.jpg
This device looks like something from the stoneage compared to the Rohloff! I've seen diagrams of the inner workings of the Rohloff and they are amazing! I looked on the new Rohloff website and they don't seem to have the inner workings diagrams there anymore, too bad because it is damn cool.

[SprocketHead]

Good Ol Sheldon Brown has oodles of info on the Rohloff, here's that diagram: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/speedbild2.jpeg

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/speedbild2.jpeg

[noise_is_life]

This device looks like something from the stoneage compared to the Rohloff! I've seen diagrams of the inner workings of the Rohloff and they are amazing! I looked on the new Rohloff website and they don't seem to have the inner workings diagrams there anymore, too bad because it is damn cool.

I read that one of the goals was to use off the shelf cassetes, etc. which is probably why it looks somewhat clunky in comparison to the Rohloff.

[FSSS]

As someone that does nearly all my own wrenching, that Rohloff thing scares the crap outta me! The Hayes gearbox may look like it is from the stoneage (no pun intended Uno), but that just means I can service/repair it.

[soupboy]

http://www.nicolai.net/

Very trick bikes - employing the G-Boxx (Rohloff) tech.

Sean

[funky-funky-chicken]

I have one of the Rohloff Speedhubs. I happen to think that they are really cool. I do think that planetary gears will become part of the future of mountain-bikes. Especially in the free-ride world where drivetrains become so complicated with suspension and susceptible to damage. Whether the gears will eventually wind up in the rear hub or concentrated on the frame will be the primary question I suspect.

People like to gripe about the additional weight (which is really only about a pound, maybe two max) over a traditional drivetrain. They also like to complain about the expense and the weird what Rohloff calls a "safety" mode that kicks in between gears 7 and 8.

Weight: My bike built up with the Rohloff was about 22pounds and about 20 as a singlespeed. In my experience, the weight is a trade-off in much the way we are willing to accept the additional weight for suspension. The penalty of the extra bit of weight pays off in better riding. You need not worry about when to shift (coasting, pedaling, sitting still) and you can shift from gear 1 to 14 in one swift turn of the wrist. No chain suck, simple to clean, perfect chainline, symmetric rear wheel, quiet, and durable.

Expense:The expense over time will work out too. The single cog can be reversed and used to extend the life by two. There are really no parts that can regularly fail. The indexing is all enclosed inside the hub. No adjustments required and maintenance is a breeze. There is really no need for service on the internal. Care and maintenance consists of an anual "flush and fill" oil change. Everything is sealed very well inside. When I had my hub converted to disc, I talked with Thomas at Rohloff USA at length about durability. He said that he had never performed any major service and says they won't need service until at minimum 30,000km.

Complaints: My only gripe is that it uses a rotational shifter (it would be nice if a machinist could make me a lever type shifter.) I used my Rohloff for almost a whole season of off-road with no problems. (I put on lots of miles.) The temporary "safety feature" is where you can sometimes find yourself temporarily in 14 when shifting from 7 to 8. At first, I thought it was a bit weird, but it's one of those things that you can easily live with.

In the end, I have a hard time riding anything with gears. I'm a singlespeed kind of rider and don't want gears on a mountain bike. I have the 26 in wheel built up for disc brake only 160mm rotor on a Mavic rim if anyone would seriously like to evaluate one before buying one; we could probably work something out. My next intention is to use it for my "super-commuter" project in the (hopefully) not too-distant future.

[Kingbozo]

I read MBA'a article about the Hayes system. They bought it from BeOne. From what they said it is similar to the Honda system, but not close enough to get into patent trouble.

It is sealeed in an oil bath and can be shifted while coasting.

[flombe]

WOW! So, has anyone ever seen any of these Nicolai's around our neck of the woods?

Did you check out the dualie tandem (Nucleon FR Tandem) with the G-BOXX gearbox? There is a LOT going on there. Not sure I would want to freeride on a tandem. Has anyone here ever tried it?

Cool website too!

[stoneage]

WOW! So, has anyone ever seen any of these Nicolai's around our neck of the woods?

Did you check out the dualie tandem (Nucleon FR Tandem) with the G-BOXX gearbox? There is a LOT going on there. Not sure I would want to freeride on a tandem. Has anyone here ever tried it?

Cool website too!

THAT is a lot of trust!!!! I stoked a tandem at Sha-wah-mee, and we had some exciting moments. There was a lot of speed involved there, but it would be quite a jump, literally, to try getting air together.