6A and 6B?

[Yammer]

I'm wondering what is the status of sections 6A and 6B? I haven't ridden those sections since section 4 was rerouted towards 5. Are these areas not to be ridden, and are there any planse to connect this area into the flow of the entire system?


http://www.mocatrails.org/files/Maps/Work%20Zones/New%20Zone%20Map.jpg

[noise_is_life]

I'm wondering what is the status of sections 6A and 6B? I haven't ridden those sections since section 4 was rerouted towards 5. Are these areas not to be ridden, and are there any planse to connect this area into the flow of the entire system?


http://www.mocatrails.org/files/Maps/Work%20Zones/New%20Zone%20Map.jpg
The city want's us to discourage people from riding those sections until they can be brought up to IMBA standards. We will be working in there next spring to create optional expert loops.

[Yammer]

Speaking of expert loops, are there also plans for section 7? It seems like that area used to be used for freeriding or something really crazy. That concrete wall with the plank followed by the really tall up and over thing seemed ridiculous! Can people actually do that?

I have been wondering for some time now, what is MORC and IMBA's position on freeride parks and trails? If Lebs has a XX loop, I guess I'm talking XXX or XXXX.

MORC doesn't actually take on any liability for these trails do they? Liability as in personal injury.

Patrick

[noise_is_life]

Speaking of expert loops, are there also plans for section 7? It seems like that area used to be used for freeriding or something really crazy. That concrete wall with the plank followed by the really tall up and over thing seemed ridiculous! Can people actually do that?

I have been wondering for some time now, what is MORC and IMBA's position on freeride parks and trails? If Lebs has a XX loop, I guess I'm talking XXX or XXXX.

MORC doesn't actually take on any liability for these trails do they? Liability as in personal injury.

Patrick
We will be rebuilding Zone 7 next spring, it's all flagged, but we're pretty much out of time this year. There may be some stunts (I mean "technical features" :)) in there (hopefully), but probably nothing as big as that tall skinny. I'm sure there are people out there that ride that(not me!), it's probably not even that challenging for those that are into that type of thing.

IMBA is fully supportive of freeride parks they have a whole section in their new trailbuilding book devoted to building freeride trails. I know MORC has some projects in the works that are in that direction too.

[Trevize1138]

Of course, this subject has already been hit upon before in threads about other trails, but there are plans for freeride parks in the works, it seems like.

I'd just like to say I really would not want Theo to have freeride stuff in it. That's just me, of course, and I'm not into freeride at all so consider my comments biased :).

I really do like the idea of Theo being more "natural" than that, and the way the original trails in 6A and 6B are designed is an example of what I mean. There are no "obstacles," just challenging trail: tight turns, steep pitches, narrow tree passes ... You can go to Lebanon for the drops, teeter and other stuff.

Theo should retain a good deal of its original appeal not only because I like it that way, but because it would encourage trail diversity in the Twin Cities. You need to give people reasons to visit different trails, they shouldn't all be just Lebanon clones: every one has the same teeter, every one has the same this, the same that ... Well, maybe I'm getting off base a bit here. No other trail will have Jan's Rock, no other trail will have the three berm descent Theo now has (woo! try it!). So, even if they all have similar obstacles here-and-there they'll still all be unique. Still, would be nice to keep uniqueness in mind =).

[Kosk]

Yeah people ride that kinda stuff, its fun. If you look closely, the wall was actually used as a drop at one point, but the landing is all beat down and washed out. It was a good sized hit. I think somebody even threw a pic of themselves hitting it up in the gallery somewhere.
I think minnesota needs a place for stuff like this. But I agree with most of the people here, places like Wirth and Leb (Im talkin real narly stuff) are not the right spot for it. It needs to be organized and built safe, so that some honky doesn't come along, break his neck, and then ruin it for the rest of us.
Maybe I'll buy a warehouse and build a indoor NS park like those guys in OH. You could make a killing on that here in the winter, you just need the cash to get started....

(I like the big tree ride to drop down by the beach too, hopefully that stays;) )

[Yammer]

I'm not as concerned about that drop as I am about that 7' tall skinny (that has been taken down). That and also those boards that are on the downed tree over in section 3 by the ravine...huh??? it seems like you'd have to be on the log sideways to ride that. Some of these things seem unrideable to me, but seeing is believing.

I'm not advocating or requesting freeride in the already existing trail systems. But I (as well as several other riders out there) would REALLY like some more vertical stuff to ride. Whether its a quick drop like the ravine in section 3 or some drop offs, or even a technical decent where you're behind your seat griping the brakes and hopping your bike side to side occasionally letting yourself go to clear something then grabbing the brakes again. Vertical. Mountain bikers love singletrack and they love vertical stuff.

Patrick

[thebionicman]

Any question about IMBA's stance on freeriding can be seen here:

http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/index.html

You should see the pics of the park that Mark and Lora (IMBA Canada reps) help build.

The more people that get involved with building out at Theo the better. I know there is a group of the FR guys that have come out to help. There input is used as we build the trail. The hard part is working with the Minneapolis Park Board to let us put these techinical features into the trail. They don't want anything unnatural on the trails.

[noise_is_life]

If I understand the trail steward correctly, we will be putting in a rock armoured steep in section 3a next spring with some sort a qualifying "technical feature" That whole section with the "inslope turns" will be black diamond with a beginner bailout at the top.

[iceskier]

I suggest you try the farm and mammoth trails. There are steep fast descents, techincal decents, drops, jumps, freeride stuff, and an overall tighten your sphincter good time. Quite a workout too!!

[Yammer]

The hard part is working with the Minneapolis Park Board to let us put these techinical features into the trail. They don't want anything unnatural on the trails.

Like the naturally occuring concrete blocks that line themselves up to form a ledge? ;)

Patrick
(j/k, that thing is really fun! Thanks!)

[thebionicman]

Like the naturally occuring concrete blocks that line themselves up to form a ledge? ;)
We figured they were the ones that dumped the concrete there in the first place. We mights as well make a nice bench out of it, that we happened to ride over!!

[Yammer]

I suggest you try the farm and mammoth trails. There are steep fast descents, techincal decents, drops, jumps, freeride stuff, and an overall tighten your sphincter good time. Quite a workout too!!
I definitely should check out those trails. But being a Minneapolis home owner, I am partial to having these types of trails close by my home town.

Patrick

[noise_is_life]

We figured they were the ones that dumped the concrete there in the first place. We mights as well make a nice bench out of it, that we happened to ride over!!
Yeah, that's the thing with Theo Wirth, in some places it's about as natural as a land fill, we just take advantage of any "natural" materials that we find.

[Yammer]

Hey what about developing over by Minnehaha falls and the river bottoms over that way? There are some tricky decents and old trails there. I know it's also some dog park now or whatever, but river valleys always have natural decents and that area could be pretty fun and local to MPLS riders.

Patrick

[thebionicman]

For right now we are concentrating on Theodore Wirth because that is an area that we have gotten an approval to work in. It takes a lot of time to just meet with land managers to find our if we can work on getting mountain biking into an area (just ask Tim, Shawn, Pete, Dale, John.......this list could get long).

My suggestion would be to try to find out who is resposible for the land in that area and talking to them to see if they would be open for allowing mountain biking in there.

[Yammer]

My suggestion would be to try to find out who is resposible for the land in that area and talking to them to see if they would be open for allowing mountain biking in there.
Where do I start? The park board?

I do agree, that the work should be concentrated to one area like TWirth until completion. Too many project would spread the work thin. But i would be interested to find out what the possibility of acquiring more Minneapolis trails would be.

Patrick

[noise_is_life]

Actually that may be within the charter of MOCA, the ultimate purpose of the work at Theo is to prove that we can do the job it a way that works for the city.

Once we get past the evaluation phase at Theo (next year), and assuming the pilot is deemed a success we will be working with the city to develop trails in other areas. Initially this will be in the corridor south of Theo, but I expect could include other parts of the city as well.

Shawn? Pete? Any comments about this?

[thebionicman]

I see that the Minnehaha area is a MPRB park. That means all trails that are done in that area will have to be proposed by MOCA. So as stated earlier we are focused on Theo down to Cedar right now. Hopefully in a few years we will be able to move to other parks such as Minnehaha.

[Trevize1138]

Like the naturally occuring concrete blocks that line themselves up to form a ledge? ;)

Patrick
(j/k, that thing is really fun! Thanks!)

You don't know for a fact that those aren't naturally-occuring rock formations! It could happen, taking into account geological time and just the right amount of friction, heat, pressure and minerals in the right place at the right time ... voilla! You've got naturally-made rock structures that just happen to look identical to concrete parking blocks. :crazy:

[stoneage]

Yeah, that's the thing with Theo Wirth, in some places it's about as natural as a land fill, we just take advantage of any "natural" materials that we find.
It's all 'natural' materials; just bonded together unnaturally. But, then again, we've seen enough of that at Wirth, haven't we? ;) ;) ;)

[Kosk]

Any plans to use the "naturally occuring" pavement mounds that are currently in play in the southeast corner of the land fill area right by the RR tracks? Its almost like riding slickrock?!?!:banana:

[thebionicman]

Any plans to use the "naturally occuring" pavement mounds that are currently in play in the southeast corner of the land fill area right by the RR tracks? Its almost like riding slickrock?!?!:banana:
Optional Expert Route

[Kosk]

sweet deal.

[Yammer]

They're not too hard to ride, but the very first time I got to them I didn't have very much speed going up the last big one, and I stalled off balance. I tried to get my foot out of the pedal, but it was one of those times where it just wouldn't come out. I tipped over and got a boo boo...that pavement is rough! :hit:

Tackled it numerous times since then though :etard:

pk

[Tim Wegner]

The only thing I did not see addressed in all of the previous posts was liability. I am not sure but I think some of the liability can come back on to the trail designer. If that is true, then suddenly I am very uncomfortable!!

TW

[Kosk]

Tim, I follow ya, I posted this earlier:

places like Wirth and Leb (Im talkin real narly stuff) are not the right spot for it. It needs to be organized and built safe, so that some honky doesn't come along, break his neck, and then ruin it for the rest of us.
I'm one of those guys that wants skinnier, higher, harder stunts, bigger drops, etc, but fully realize that Leb, Wirth, and the like are not the places for it. Too much liability. I'm happy to keep the trails what they are...trails, and hopefully as this sport evolves in the state, organized freeride projects will start popping up, and hopefully I'll be a part of it. Until then, thanks for the kick-butt TRAILS.

[flombe]

It's all 'natural' materials; just bonded together unnaturally. But, then again, we've seen enough of that at Wirth, haven't we? ;) ;) ;)
LOL!!!!!!!!! Good one.

Good discussion here! There appears to be good potential to enhance the variety of terrain at Theo as the evaluation process continues and the city extends their trust level futher with the trail design and greater "obstacles", etc. in the sections planned for next year. I look forward to seeing that happen.

A point was made during a group ride last night that the use of the Theo trail area by undesired users seems to have diminished over the summer as rider activity increased. There was also mention of seeing families using the trails. This is fantastic and I hope this continues and that the city is able to observe this next spring.

I applaud the efforts of all of those who made Theo what it has become this year! I can only imagine the amount of time and pyhsical effort that has gone into developing a much improved (improving, and soon to be further improved) sanctioned trail system. THANK YOU!

[Wheels]

Actually that may be within the charter of MOCA, the ultimate purpose of the work at Theo is to prove that we can do the job it a way that works for the city.

Once we get past the evaluation phase at Theo (next year), and assuming the pilot is deemed a success we will be working with the city to develop trails in other areas. Initially this will be in the corridor south of Theo, but I expect could include other parts of the city as well.

Shawn? Pete? Any comments about this?

Oops, missed this one.

Yes, the River Bluffs and Falls area were presented as the Master Plan, and could be included in the far future. The plan calls for a trails sytem that incorporates as many of the city parks as possible (depending on ability to support withou conflict and soil conditions).

It's ambigous at best, but as Pat already said - Sweeny first, then we'll find out where we can go from there.